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	<title>Comments on: Taxing the Rich</title>
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	<description>Where Defeat Is Not An Option</description>
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		<title>By: goijewat</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-8388</link>
		<dc:creator>goijewat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/#comment-8388</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;goijewat&lt;/strong&gt;

goijewat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>goijewat</strong></p>
<p>goijewat</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Gaultieri</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-2318</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Gaultieri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/#comment-2318</guid>
		<description>Some of these fatcat CEOS who are now losing their jobs gets their taxes paid on their golden parachute bonuses.  That means a fatcat gets a $100 million bonus and gets an extra $40 mil  in income because the taxes are paid. That $40 mil income gets another $16 mil in taxes paid which means around another $6.5 mil in taxes paid to the point where it all costs the corporation $180 million dollars for that $100 million bonus paid to someone who made a company lose money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of these fatcat CEOS who are now losing their jobs gets their taxes paid on their golden parachute bonuses.  That means a fatcat gets a $100 million bonus and gets an extra $40 mil  in income because the taxes are paid. That $40 mil income gets another $16 mil in taxes paid which means around another $6.5 mil in taxes paid to the point where it all costs the corporation $180 million dollars for that $100 million bonus paid to someone who made a company lose money.</p>
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		<title>By: Free Lotto Winnings!! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Taxing the Rich</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-2317</link>
		<dc:creator>Free Lotto Winnings!! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Taxing the Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/#comment-2317</guid>
		<description>[...] Sheldon Liber wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptThink of it like this - if you were to win the lottery for $25 million and Uncle Sam, et al, nailed you for $10 million, you’d still be pleased as punch about the $15 million you’ve got which cannot be further taxed as income. &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sheldon Liber wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptThink of it like this &#8211; if you were to win the lottery for $25 million and Uncle Sam, et al, nailed you for $10 million, you’d still be pleased as punch about the $15 million you’ve got which cannot be further taxed as income. &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: What?</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-2316</link>
		<dc:creator>What?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/#comment-2316</guid>
		<description>Amazingly Mark,
I stumbled on a point that disproves your point.
You claim wealthy don&#039;t have income but actually they do in the form of dividends.

If we raise the income tax rate on the wealthy they will be paying a larger amount on these dividends, which even you must admit is a large source of their wealth. Money generates money. So using your Bill Clinton example, say Bill makes $20M on a book deal. By raisning his income tax you deny him a large portion of his advancment for the book but also you tax any income he earns after he invests the fee.

I guess I don&#039;t understand what you mean by principal and wealth as most wealth today is not held in land but in portfolios.
How would you tax &quot;wealth.&quot;
Ironically, the estate tax is considered a tax that reduces wealth in that it deprives one&#039;s heirs of a large portion of the capital that maintained the decedent&#039;s wealth in life.

Also, given the size and location of the Clinton&#039;s home, I am quite sure they pay property taxes that come close to $17,000. That is a drop in the bucket.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazingly Mark,<br />
I stumbled on a point that disproves your point.<br />
You claim wealthy don&#8217;t have income but actually they do in the form of dividends.</p>
<p>If we raise the income tax rate on the wealthy they will be paying a larger amount on these dividends, which even you must admit is a large source of their wealth. Money generates money. So using your Bill Clinton example, say Bill makes $20M on a book deal. By raisning his income tax you deny him a large portion of his advancment for the book but also you tax any income he earns after he invests the fee.</p>
<p>I guess I don&#8217;t understand what you mean by principal and wealth as most wealth today is not held in land but in portfolios.<br />
How would you tax &#8220;wealth.&#8221;<br />
Ironically, the estate tax is considered a tax that reduces wealth in that it deprives one&#8217;s heirs of a large portion of the capital that maintained the decedent&#8217;s wealth in life.</p>
<p>Also, given the size and location of the Clinton&#8217;s home, I am quite sure they pay property taxes that come close to $17,000. That is a drop in the bucket.</p>
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		<title>By: Rana Quijotesca</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-2315</link>
		<dc:creator>Rana Quijotesca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/#comment-2315</guid>
		<description>Let me point something out...

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;i&gt;REDUCING TAX RATES DOES NOT NECESSARILY INCREASE REVENUES!!!!!!!!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

From &lt;a href=&quot;http://voxbaby.blogspot.com/2007/01/new-years-plea.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Andrew Samwick&lt;/a&gt; (responding to Bush&#039;s claims that his tax cuts spawned record revenues):

&lt;blockquote&gt;You are smart people. You know that the tax cuts have not fueled record revenues. You know what it takes to establish causality. You know that the first order effect of cutting taxes is to lower tax revenues. We all agree that the ultimate reduction in tax revenues can be less than this first order effect, because lower tax rates encourage greater economic activity and thus expand the tax base. No thoughtful person believes that this possible offset more than compensated for the first effect for these tax cuts. Not a single one.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Just so you know... Mr. Samwick is the former Chief Economist on Bush&#039;s Council of Economic advisers (2003-2004).

That statement leads me to another thing that I wanted to point out...

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;i&gt;CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION!!!!!&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;

Honestly, anyone who sticks their thumb up their ass and extols the infinite virtue of indefinitely lowering tax rates (considering most sane economists put us on the left side of the Laffer Curve) is an idiot either by accident or on purpose...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me point something out&#8230;</p>
<p><strong><i>REDUCING TAX RATES DOES NOT NECESSARILY INCREASE REVENUES!!!!!!!!</i></strong></p>
<p>From <a href="http://voxbaby.blogspot.com/2007/01/new-years-plea.html" rel="nofollow">Andrew Samwick</a> (responding to Bush&#8217;s claims that his tax cuts spawned record revenues):</p>
<blockquote><p>You are smart people. You know that the tax cuts have not fueled record revenues. You know what it takes to establish causality. You know that the first order effect of cutting taxes is to lower tax revenues. We all agree that the ultimate reduction in tax revenues can be less than this first order effect, because lower tax rates encourage greater economic activity and thus expand the tax base. No thoughtful person believes that this possible offset more than compensated for the first effect for these tax cuts. Not a single one.</p></blockquote>
<p>Just so you know&#8230; Mr. Samwick is the former Chief Economist on Bush&#8217;s Council of Economic advisers (2003-2004).</p>
<p>That statement leads me to another thing that I wanted to point out&#8230;</p>
<p><strong><i>CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION!!!!!</i></strong></p>
<p>Honestly, anyone who sticks their thumb up their ass and extols the infinite virtue of indefinitely lowering tax rates (considering most sane economists put us on the left side of the Laffer Curve) is an idiot either by accident or on purpose&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Noonan</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-2314</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Noonan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/#comment-2314</guid>
		<description>What,

But even a capital gains tax really amounts to nothing more than a tax on income.  If I invest a million dollars and make 100,000 off it, the tax will be on the 100,000 I made - my million is safe from the tax man.  Move that capital gains tax up to 35%...I&#039;ll still have 65,000 more than I started with and that on top of a million dollars.

If you on the left want to tax the rich, as you say you do, then you simply MUST demand a tax on wealth...and if you make such a demand, you&#039;ll find out mighty quick how two-faced your liberal heros are on the subject...Democrat leaders are all in favor of a tax on income, including capital gains income, but don&#039;t you even think about eating into Ted or Hillary&#039;s principal...oh, no; none of that.  You see, Democrat leaders feel they are entitled to remain just as rich as they are now, because they deserve that sort of life style because they care about the poor, and they prove it by increases in taxes on &quot;the rich&quot;...except for themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What,</p>
<p>But even a capital gains tax really amounts to nothing more than a tax on income.  If I invest a million dollars and make 100,000 off it, the tax will be on the 100,000 I made &#8211; my million is safe from the tax man.  Move that capital gains tax up to 35%&#8230;I&#8217;ll still have 65,000 more than I started with and that on top of a million dollars.</p>
<p>If you on the left want to tax the rich, as you say you do, then you simply MUST demand a tax on wealth&#8230;and if you make such a demand, you&#8217;ll find out mighty quick how two-faced your liberal heros are on the subject&#8230;Democrat leaders are all in favor of a tax on income, including capital gains income, but don&#8217;t you even think about eating into Ted or Hillary&#8217;s principal&#8230;oh, no; none of that.  You see, Democrat leaders feel they are entitled to remain just as rich as they are now, because they deserve that sort of life style because they care about the poor, and they prove it by increases in taxes on &#8220;the rich&#8221;&#8230;except for themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: What?</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-2313</link>
		<dc:creator>What?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/#comment-2313</guid>
		<description>I correct myself. Divends are taxed as income while increases on investments are taxed at the current capital gains tax of 15%
I think the point is still clear. This country values investment over income. It should be the other way around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I correct myself. Divends are taxed as income while increases on investments are taxed at the current capital gains tax of 15%<br />
I think the point is still clear. This country values investment over income. It should be the other way around.</p>
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		<title>By: What?</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-2312</link>
		<dc:creator>What?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/#comment-2312</guid>
		<description>Mark writes,
&quot;I’m merely pointing out the absurdity of Democrat “tax the rich” plans - they don’t tax the actual rich, but only those who happen to have a high income at the moment. Income and wealth are not the same thing - just as income and profit are different things in business.&quot;

You ignore that most Democrats want to raise the capital gains tax. (Obama and Edwards for example) The wealthy of this country obtain most of their money from captial gains through investment. This includes Buffet and Clinton. The &quot;money in the bank&quot; is not in the bank but in the stock market and is being taxed at 15% thanks to Republicans, primarily Reagan.

If you actually listened to what Buffet said you would understand know this. His complaint is that he is charged at a lower rate than his employees. He doesn&#039;t have an income, he earns money through dividends and increases in the value of his stock portfolio.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark writes,<br />
&#8220;I’m merely pointing out the absurdity of Democrat “tax the rich” plans &#8211; they don’t tax the actual rich, but only those who happen to have a high income at the moment. Income and wealth are not the same thing &#8211; just as income and profit are different things in business.&#8221;</p>
<p>You ignore that most Democrats want to raise the capital gains tax. (Obama and Edwards for example) The wealthy of this country obtain most of their money from captial gains through investment. This includes Buffet and Clinton. The &#8220;money in the bank&#8221; is not in the bank but in the stock market and is being taxed at 15% thanks to Republicans, primarily Reagan.</p>
<p>If you actually listened to what Buffet said you would understand know this. His complaint is that he is charged at a lower rate than his employees. He doesn&#8217;t have an income, he earns money through dividends and increases in the value of his stock portfolio.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Noonan</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-2311</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Noonan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/#comment-2311</guid>
		<description>Tract,

You&#039;re not understanding what I&#039;m saying...man, this gets frustrating:  I&#039;m trying to tell you that the class warfare &quot;tax the rich&quot; stuff is a bogus dodge by rich Democrats to get liberals and leftists to support them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tract,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re not understanding what I&#8217;m saying&#8230;man, this gets frustrating:  I&#8217;m trying to tell you that the class warfare &#8220;tax the rich&#8221; stuff is a bogus dodge by rich Democrats to get liberals and leftists to support them.</p>
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		<title>By: JUDGE NAUGHT</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/comment-page-1/#comment-2310</link>
		<dc:creator>JUDGE NAUGHT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 04:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/2007/11/15/taxing-the-rich/#comment-2310</guid>
		<description>Hello again Doug. i hope you are still with me. On the &quot;flat tax&quot;, one other big reason for a consumption tax was to eliminate the IRS and their  90,000 plus pages of &quot;code&quot;.
When you talk about a flat &quot;income&quot; tax, it becomes way difficult, at least for my pea brian! So please feel free to offer any points I may overlook in this short response,
First define income. Second, should corporations pay income tax? Some say corps. don&#039;t pay taxes, their customers do. Unless the customer is the govt--say military hardware, sattelites, I&#039;m sure you can think of a dozen or more-offshore entities, etc. Then there&#039;s the capital gains/loss issue. Do we tax/forgive at the same rate, or do we keep the discount rate currently in effect to encourage investment? Also, there is the tax free muni bond market which the very wealthy (Ross Perot for instance) and large institutional investors buy to finance public projects? How about the farmer- do we tax them on their gross reciepts, or allow deductions for equipment? Then, how about the mortgage/dependent deduction used to socially engineer our society? We have in effect a flat tax on adjusted gross income now, I think it&#039;s %28-34 depending on ... not exactly flat, but a %5 point range, excluding the %15 capital gain rate that our hedge fund managers enjoy. As a single taxpayer with declining mortgage intrest deductions, (been paying for 20 yrs now) I subsidise people who have children.  for every child they have, they pay less while I subsidize schools, sewer systems, police+fire, libraries etc. I think we should pay people not to have babies, and charge more for each child to pay for the inevitable resources they will require. Water is already becomming a big issue, and will loom large in Ca. in the next ten years.
Here&#039;s a thought, how about we just divide up the three trillion needed by the 300 million people and then we pay $1000 each? I&#039;ll even chip in an extra $500 towards the current nine trillion national debt!
Looking forward to a response- I know you&#039;re a thinker and I am sincere.
OOPS- I think I ran out of zeros on my calculator, it should be 10,000 per person, am I right? In that case, I&#039;ll keep the $500! Please tell me I&#039;m wrong!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello again Doug. i hope you are still with me. On the &#8220;flat tax&#8221;, one other big reason for a consumption tax was to eliminate the IRS and their  90,000 plus pages of &#8220;code&#8221;.<br />
When you talk about a flat &#8220;income&#8221; tax, it becomes way difficult, at least for my pea brian! So please feel free to offer any points I may overlook in this short response,<br />
First define income. Second, should corporations pay income tax? Some say corps. don&#8217;t pay taxes, their customers do. Unless the customer is the govt&#8211;say military hardware, sattelites, I&#8217;m sure you can think of a dozen or more-offshore entities, etc. Then there&#8217;s the capital gains/loss issue. Do we tax/forgive at the same rate, or do we keep the discount rate currently in effect to encourage investment? Also, there is the tax free muni bond market which the very wealthy (Ross Perot for instance) and large institutional investors buy to finance public projects? How about the farmer- do we tax them on their gross reciepts, or allow deductions for equipment? Then, how about the mortgage/dependent deduction used to socially engineer our society? We have in effect a flat tax on adjusted gross income now, I think it&#8217;s %28-34 depending on &#8230; not exactly flat, but a %5 point range, excluding the %15 capital gain rate that our hedge fund managers enjoy. As a single taxpayer with declining mortgage intrest deductions, (been paying for 20 yrs now) I subsidise people who have children.  for every child they have, they pay less while I subsidize schools, sewer systems, police+fire, libraries etc. I think we should pay people not to have babies, and charge more for each child to pay for the inevitable resources they will require. Water is already becomming a big issue, and will loom large in Ca. in the next ten years.<br />
Here&#8217;s a thought, how about we just divide up the three trillion needed by the 300 million people and then we pay $1000 each? I&#8217;ll even chip in an extra $500 towards the current nine trillion national debt!<br />
Looking forward to a response- I know you&#8217;re a thinker and I am sincere.<br />
OOPS- I think I ran out of zeros on my calculator, it should be 10,000 per person, am I right? In that case, I&#8217;ll keep the $500! Please tell me I&#8217;m wrong!!</p>
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