35 Comments

• 1. Keith  |  November 16th, 2007 at 5:51 am

  Yeah, you missed Kookcinich calling for impeachment, Earbama lying about Bush raiding the SS trust fund, Hitlary waffling, and Joe Biden looking, once again, like the smartest man on the stage. Oh, and you missed Silky Pony, once again, telling us his daddy “worked in the meal(sic)…”

• 2. 1H8L1B5  |  November 16th, 2007 at 5:58 am

  Hitlary: “We’ve got people all over the country who want to make a contribution.”

  Translation: “I’m gonna tax the hell out of all of them, and they’re gonna roll over and take it!”

  OT, here’s a comment from a 66-year-old grandmother lefty kook over at americablog.com, about VP Cheney:

  “Doctors should just stop giving him batteries.”

  This, from the folks who want to end all this partisan bickering, and spread peace and compassion throughout the globe.

  This is why 1H8L1B5…

• 3. neocon  |  November 16th, 2007 at 9:37 am

  One of my favorite lines was from the alien:

  “The occupations is fueling the insurgency”

  Straight out of 2005.

• 4. Aitch  |  November 16th, 2007 at 10:15 am

  Hey Mark quit telling everybody when you go to church or how you sacrifice eating meat on Fridays or whatever. Nobody cares. That’s between you and your Creator. This is a political blog.

  Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. When you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

• 5. james allegro  |  November 16th, 2007 at 10:32 am

  Aitch, why do you feel uncomfortable with Mark saying that he went to church. There is nothing wrong with expressing your faith in public. It is like people who want to supress others from using the word God in public, as just a way to supress religion. You also don’t take a lit candle and put it in a closet, but shine for the whole world to see. I didn’t get the impression that Mark was trying to be holier than thou. If it was a fact that he went to church last night, there is nothing wrong with him stating that he did not see the debate and then give the reason. Would you have felt more comfortable if he said he was watching a movie or was watching another tv program. The day is over when people should be somehow ashamed or embarrassed that they love God and wish to express same in public, as long as it is done sincerely. St. Francis of Assisi stated that we should always be preaching and when necessary, use words.

• 6. Zach  |  November 16th, 2007 at 10:35 am

  Aitch. Who’s blog is this again? You attack him for just mentioning that he was at church? Oh the horror! Someone told us he went to church! This Blog is polictical only! Not even the moderator can mention anything about religous faith! Hell he didnt even connect the debate with the fact that he went to church.

  How old are you? seriously.

  As for the debate: I almost enjoy watching the democratic debate more so than the republican debate.

  My favorite part was when Obama was asked about whether human rights trumped national security. Even Chris Dodd said without hesitation national security. Obama critisized Hillary for not being straight forward with answering tough questions in general (she doesn’t) and he himself was able to squirm out of answering the human rights/national security question.

  Its funny, whenever Dodd, Obama, and Edwards attack Hillary; they almost look conservative….almost.

• 7. Aitch  |  November 16th, 2007 at 10:47 am

  Ok. That’s cool, whatever. I really didn’t think anybody did care. I guess some of you do. But (r)eally, it was Jesus who said to pray in secret. Mattew 6:6.

• 8. Eric T  |  November 16th, 2007 at 10:48 am

  Mark,

  I came in late from hunting and did’nt see the whole debate. But what I did see was, a bunch of clowns up there blowing smoke up Hitlery’s rear. The audience applauding every time she spoke. Boo-ing at Edwards for taking a shot at her. I’d bet CNN stands for Clinton News Network. The debate felt real rehearsed, scripted, it was very boring, no new issues, same old blame Bush for everything strategy. I think the reality of Hillary winning the Democrat nomination has set in, Biden, Dodd, Earbama, and all those other guys, don’t want to get out of line. Hitlery will have them scrubbing them commode when she wins.

• 9. Mark Noonan  |  November 16th, 2007 at 11:24 am

  Aitch,

  I was just making a statement - didn’t say what I did at Church, didn’t make any proclamation of faith…had I been at the movies, I would have said that….but on Thursday evenings between 7 and 9, I’m at Church.

  Lighten up.

• 10. Joe  |  November 16th, 2007 at 11:44 am

  Wow…
  “Hitlery”
  “Earbama”
  “Kookcinich”
  “Silky Pony”

  You guys are masters at really breaking down the debate. Wow political pundits watchout!

• 11. LaMano  |  November 16th, 2007 at 11:46 am

  Aitch,

  Shouldn’t the ‘A’ really be a ‘B’?

  BTW, I go to church for teaching classes, taking classes, potlucks and other social events. It’s not ONLY a place to pray.

• 12. Joe  |  November 16th, 2007 at 11:49 am

  Actually, I was hoping the others would push Hillary more than they did last night. I am one Dem that does NOT want her as my party’s nominee. I have to admit she bounced back pretty well from the last debate, but I still don’t want her.

  The only way I vote for her is if the choices are her or Romney or her or Guiliani.

  Oh if only Bill Richardson could raise some money.

• 13. Retired Spook  |  November 16th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

  Oh if only Bill Richardson could raise some money

  The fact that he hasn’t been able to should tell you something. What specifically do you like about him? I mean, is this really the kind of guy you want as leader of the free world?

  WASHINGTON — New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson says a fence at the Mexican border authorized by Congress this fall “gets in the way” of U.S.-Mexico relations, and he wants the new Democratic Congress to reverse the legislation.

  “The fence is very unpopular on the border in Texas and New Mexico, in Chihuahua,” Richardson, a Democrat, said after meeting Wednesday with leaders from the Mexican state of Chihuahua. “So one of the most significant and constructive acts the U.S. Congress should take is to get rid of it.” (emphasis added)

• 14. Eric T  |  November 16th, 2007 at 12:49 pm

  Joe

  Gov. Bill Richardson is a much better choice than Hillary. He is the only 2nd Amendment friendly democrat. He has more executive experience than Hillary. If he don’t win the DNC primary. Don’t casturate yourself and vote Hillary. Do the right thing and vote Republican.

• 15. Eric T  |  November 16th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

  Joe

  I like Huckabee alot more than Rudy or Mitt. When it comes down it. Hillary is the worst choice there is. High taxes, government programs to intrude on every aspect of your life. gun bans, gay marriage.

• 16. Ricorun  |  November 16th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

  Spook: I mean, is this really the kind of guy you want as leader of the free world?

  Actually, I think he’s a much better choice than most. There’s a difference between a border wall and border security. A border wall is likely to be more symbolic than effective. Regardless of how it’s attempted, in order for border security to be effective we have to engage the Mexican government — on many different levels. And I can’t think of any better choice in that regard than Bill Richardson.

  I don’t think he’ll get the nomination, though. But I think he’d make a very good Secretary of State.

• 17. Joe  |  November 16th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

  Just because he is against a fence? Why stop at the fence? Let’s build a moat! In fact let’s put sharks with laser beams on their heads!!!
  Seriously though… a fence sounds good, but is that really going to stop people from crossing?

  Here is what he is for as far as immigration is concerned:
  ** Secure the Border by Hiring and Training Enough Patrol Guards to Cover the Entire Border. — We must more than double the number of guards, and provide them with the best surveillance technology available.
  ** Establish a Reasonable Path to Legalization for Many of Those Who are Already Here. — Those who pass a background check, learn English, pay back taxes and fines for being here illegally get the opportunity for legal status. Those that don’t must leave.
  ** Eliminate One of the Prime Attractions for Illegal Workers. —We must crack down on employers who knowingly hire undocumented immigrants and enforce the laws already on the books.

  What other candidate has negotiated deals with foreign countries?
  At this time (especially with the Iran situation), shouldn’t we have someone that was an ambassador? Someone that knows what diplomacy is??

  I don’t agree on his “immediate pullout” of Iraq, I would be more for a phased pullout as long as there is SERIOUS movement towards phasing out and letting Iraq take over their own security instead of using us like a crutch.

  That is just my opinion. By no means do I expect any conservatives on this blog to agree with me or to sway your vote.

• 18. Mark Noonan  |  November 16th, 2007 at 1:12 pm

  Joe,

  Well, the fence they are building is proving 100% effective against people crossing…once its built and the whole system is in place, illegal border crossings will cease because there won’t be any effective way to make the crossing.

• 19. DougH  |  November 16th, 2007 at 1:23 pm

  It’s scary that any of the candidates other than Hilary or Biden could actually run for President of the USA.

  They all sounded whiney and whinging..

  Don’t know who talked Obama into running because he’s not ready yet… he should have waited until 2012.

  One must wonder what has become of the world when someone like Kookcinich, actually believes what he is saying, and thinks they could be President.

  He would last about 10 minutes in any USA gang controlled suburb, let alone being able to handle leaders of other countries.

• 20. Joe  |  November 16th, 2007 at 1:23 pm

  First of all, sorry for all the italics in my last post, I forgot to turn it off. I hate when I do that!!

  Mark, that is a good theory, but since when would a fence stop someone from trying to get over/around/thru/under it? The only thing a wall does is dare someone to find a way to the other side.
  Let’s crack down on those hiring them.
  Let’s add better, more modern surveillance.
  Let’s add more patrol guards and stations.
  Let’s work WITH the Mexican government.

  To me, there is no better person to get that done than Richardson.

  Diplomacy with Iran… no better person to do it than Richardson.

  Working with the Iraq government… Richardson

  So he will get my primary vote. Huckabee isn’t bad and I might consider him, but not too likely. Mitt and Rudy just drive me crazy.

• 21. Eric T  |  November 16th, 2007 at 1:30 pm

  Joe

  I think his plan is very similar to what alot of the Republicans are proposing. It is better than Hillary giving them drivers licenses so they can hurry up and vote for her. Bill’s plan ain’t bad at all.

  I also agree with you that Bill is wrong on the “immediate pullout” in Iraq. It is not a good idea, our troops are doing a great job, it is clear to see, Iraqi troops are getting the experience and training they need to fight Al Qaida. Even the local militia’s are helping clear out the foreign fighters and Al Qaida. Iraq is very close to being able to provide its own security.

• 22. Joe  |  November 16th, 2007 at 1:36 pm

  Eric,
  Don’t get me wrong, I think we should get out of Iraq as soon as possible, I just don’t think it can logistically get done as soon as he is saying. I think we need to START soon, but it will take a while.
  I like the plan of moving our brave men and women from the front-lines immediately. We should be doing nothing more than training and defending our interests.
  If you truly feel Iraq is “very close” to providing its own security, then you should have no problem with us getting the hell off the front-lines and only training.

• 23. Eric T  |  November 16th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

  Most of us can “Armchair General” it, over here on the other side of the world. But our military really knows what is going on on the ground. Have you ever bought a stock, It went up a little bit, you sold it then. Then the stock kept going up and up and you wish you never sold it. Imagine in Iraq, It looks like its getting better so we leave, The insurgency revs up. They overthrow the government, Al Qaida pours back into Iraq to control the oil revenue.
  Hizbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the rest of the gang kill all the moderate politicans and prepare for war with Israel??? Our Military knows how to run the war better than politicans

• 24. Aitch  |  November 16th, 2007 at 2:21 pm

  LaMano,
  Ummm, ok, thanks fo(r) the info.

  Ma(r)k,
  How can anyone even watch these debates. They all seem so staged. I mean se(r)iously, the election is yea(r) away. The(r)e’s gotta be some tackle football on TV somewhe(r)e to watch instead. You know, (r)eal people in (r)eal contests.

  So, a little off topic, but has Hilla(r)y’s campaign (r)esponded to the FEC complaint you guys filed whe(r)e you used the biased mainst(r)eam media as the basis fo(r) it. It’s been ove(r) 15 days. What’d they say?

• 25. Joe  |  November 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

  Fair enough Eric.
  Republicans will paint a rosy picture and Democrats will paint an ugly picture. I’m sure it falls somewhere in the middle.
  I’m one who believes we never should have gone in to begin with, but now that we broke it, we have to try and fix it. From all that I’ve read, we’ve fixed about as much as can be fixed. It is up to Iraq to finish the rest.
  Military solutions only take you so far. Without a Political solution, this will never be completed.
  That is where my candidate Richardson comes into play. You need diplomacy that will help the political outcome come to fruition.

• 26. Eric T  |  November 16th, 2007 at 2:54 pm

  joe

  I gotta split, nice talking with ya, Gov Bill or Gov. Mike are better candidates than these corporate candidates that can buy votes, media coverage. The working class can’t spend $2,000 on fundraising dinner and give and give to these politicans. Try to vote in the Democrat and Republican Primary. Hopefully we’ll have a real choices besides corporate Rudy or corporate Hillary.

• 27. Joe  |  November 16th, 2007 at 2:56 pm

  Good talking with you too Eric. Nice to see some civilized debate on this site.

• 28. Parker  |  November 16th, 2007 at 3:07 pm

  “Well, the fence they are building is proving 100% effective against people crossing?…”

  Why not? It worked in Berlin.

• 29. 1H8L1B5  |  November 16th, 2007 at 5:23 pm

  Why not? It worked in Berlin.

  A bit different, Parker. You ought to watch “The Lives of Others,” if you think we’re living under a fascist regime. I must warn you, the film is German, and has subtitles. So you must be able to read. Can you?

• 30. Mark Noonan  |  November 16th, 2007 at 5:48 pm

  Joe,

  We can’t work with the Mexican government - in order to have a cooperative relationship with anyone, there has to be a mutually agreed upon goal…the goal of the Mexican government is to get as many Mexicans as possible into the United States because the remittances of Mexican workers in the US is what keeps Mexico’s corrupt politico-economic system afloat. Cut off those funds and Mexico would be forced to reform both government and the economy, and too many of Mexico’s corrupt elites would suffer if that happened. Our goal is to obtain the labor we need in a carefully organized manner - which means only a limited number of Mexican workers coming across the border.

  Might as well try to negotiate a deal between oil and water - vis a vis immigration, the only thing we can do on the Mexican border is build the strongest defensive system possible.

• 31. Tractatus  |  November 16th, 2007 at 8:19 pm

  Well, the fence they are building is proving 100% effective against people crossing…once its built and the whole system is in place, illegal border crossings will cease because there won’t be any effective way to make the crossing.

  You cannot possibly be serious about any part of this sentence.

• 32. Ricorun  |  November 16th, 2007 at 8:20 pm

  Mark, you outline the problem pretty well. However, as you say, “in order to have a cooperative relationship with anyone, there has to be a mutually agreed upon goal”, one has to undertand what that goal may be. It seems to me that one big problem with Mexico is that they have been far too restrictive with respect to foreign capital investment. I don’t pretend to know what combination of carrots and sticks can change that attitude, but I believe it’s possible. In general the people are for it, and there is now a government in place that could be for it. The hard part is getting their corporate elite to go along with it. That’s always been the problem with Mexico regardless of the “flavor” of their government. But things are changing, although with glacial slowness.

• 33. Ricorun  |  November 16th, 2007 at 8:47 pm

  Mark: Well, the fence they are building is proving 100% effective against people crossing…once its built and the whole system is in place, illegal border crossings will cease because there won’t be any effective way to make the crossing.

  First of all, there’s a popular joke that the more 20 ft fences there are on the Mexican border, the more 21 ft ladders will be sold in Mexico. There’s probably a considerable amount of truth to that — not to mention shovels, lol!

  Apart from that, what about Jose and Guillermo that have papers and a passport (legit as far as anyone knows) who passes through the turnstile in San Ysidro to visit their aunt Esperanza in San Diego and just sort of get lost?

  Perhaps more to the point, what about the Canadian border? If you’re concerned about terrorists, where do you think they are likely to come from?

• 34. Joe  |  November 16th, 2007 at 10:23 pm

  I still think we should install a moat with sharks with laser beams on their heads!!
  Seriously, to say that we can’t come up with an agreed upon goal to work with the government is showing someone that hasn’t (or doesn’t want to) think thru hard problems.
  I’m not saying I have any answers at this point, but there are a lot of smart people in this country that should be able to come up with something.

  I just find it hard to believe that a wall is the best and brightest idea we could have come up with.

• 35. Mark Noonan  |  November 17th, 2007 at 3:18 am

  Ricorun,

  In a certain sense, it may very well be that once PRI gave up power in Mexico and allowed genuinely free elections that the Mexican elite started to understand that freedom brings with it all sorts of problems - including the need for laws honestly enforced in order to garner foreign investment…so, rather than solve that tricky problem, they just started encouraging more illegal crossings to get cash without having to alter their way of doing business. Used to be that Mexico was particular about foreign ownership out of an understanding revulsion for the way foreign business used to have a large say in Mexican internal affairs…now its not so much that but an unwillingness to have an incorrupt politico-business climate.

  So, as for what carrots and sticks might break the logjam - we could just bribe the Mexican elite to go away, but outside of that I can’t think of anything which will move them other than complete economic collapse - which would follow hard upon our enforcing our immigration laws and securing our borders. I hate it to come to that - after all, it will be the poor people of Mexico who will suffer the most, but there has to be revolutionary change in Mexico if Mexico is to have a real future.