Archibishop of Canterbury Truckles to Islam, Condemns United States
November 25th, 2007 at 03:28pm Mark Noonan
Why not? What else has the spiritual leader of the Church of England to do with his time? Its not like there’s a lot of churchgoers to deal with on a Sunday:
THE Archbishop of Canterbury has said that the United States wields its power in a way that is worse than Britain during its imperial heyday.
Rowan Williams claimed that America’s attempt to intervene overseas by “clearing the decks” with a “quick burst of violent action” had led to “the worst of all worlds”.
In a wide-ranging interview with a British Muslim magazine, the Anglican leader linked criticism of the United States to one of his most pessimistic declarations about the state of western civilisation.
He said the crisis was caused not just by America’s actions but also by its misguided sense of its own mission. He poured scorn on the “chosen nation myth of America, meaning that what happens in America is very much at the heart of God’s purpose for humanity”.
What I’d like to ask the Archbishop is just what he thinks is at God’s purpose for humanity - I mean, he’s saying that we Americans think that America is the heart of the purpose (a false statement; perhaps Europeans should get out a bit more and discover the divserity in the world?); so, what does he think it is?
The Archbishop did go on to deplore the state of western civilization…noting that our modern definition of humanity does eat away at the soul. Yep, got that right. And, just perhaps, if the Church of England spent more time preaching the Christian message rather than shoving its disintegration under the rug in favor of making absurd and un-informed pronouncements there would be a better definition of humanity for us to work with?
Entry Filed under: Foreign Affairs, Religion, War on Terror
27 Comments
1. Eric T | November 25th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Without hearing the context of the story I don’t want to speak against a holy man, but the piece that I did hear gets on my fighting side.
Our History with England goes straight back to the beginning of this Great Country. During The Revolutionary War and again with the War of 1812. England tried to tell us how to run our country and we blew them off the continent. Over the years we have been there to rescue them in WW1 and again from the Nazi’s with the help of the Russian’s and American Forces “wielding their power in a way worse than Britian in its Imperial Heyday”, Europe was spared.
Their Imperial Heyday was’nt too bad, the “Brown bess” musket and .75 cal. ball it shot decimated the enemy. Our Militia’s and sharpshooters proved more effective than their Regular Army they “wielded their power” but it was impotent. When we whipped out our power they couldn’t handle it. “Sounds like power envy” to me.
Remember Amoco (American Oil Company)
now (British Petroleum)
Maybe Amoco again ain’t quite a bad idea. They control the Alaska Pipeline.
2. Casper | November 25th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Mark,
I find it somewhat ironic that you follow a post about how Republicans are open to diverse opinions by attacking someone for having a different opinion than yours.
I also find it sad that Eric’s first comment to the post attacks Britain as a country, even though they have been our strongest ally in Iraq.
3. Brian Gregory | November 25th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Not all clergymen are “holy men,” Eric. His words are meaningless…what business does some holier-than-thou church official have criticizing a separate nation’s endeavours, especially one in which the official’s own country is involved?
Mark, Britain has been an ally, but I wouldn’t call them strong. The whole point of blogging IS to counter someone’s opinions wit your own…
4. Eric T | November 25th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Britain and the U.S are pals we can poke fun at each other. Hell, when Bush goes over there. Their is always a bunch of libs, protesting Bush, What he isn’t allowed to flip them off, or moon them.
5. Eric T | November 25th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Sorry Casper,
We all got to work together for peace in the Middle East coming up in a few days. The Dems and Republicans should have a cease fire for a few days till the event and work together. It is important to save face and not embarass or Humiliate anyone. Special care for Islam, foul jokes cause riots and bounties for heads in Holland.
6. Mark Noonan | November 25th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Casper,
Did I say he couldn’t say what he said? Nope - just observing that with the Anglican communion rapidly disintegrating and less than one in fifty Brits attending weekly services in the CofE, I think the Archbishop has better things to do with his time than make statements at variance with the facts - both of our effort in Iraq, and Britain’s effort in their Empire.
The Archbishop is truckling…he’s crawling to Islam, trying to make them like him by distancing himself from the one earthly power which prevents the conquest of the west by alien peoples who would suppress the Christianity he professes.
7. Psycheout | November 25th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
What a maroon! He has no problem criticizing the west to suck up to hypersensitive (crazy) Mooselimbs. Give me a break, Arch-bigot. You’re in the wrong religion, pal. Go join the religion of pieces.
I’m sorry, but this kind of garbage really ticks me off.
8. weefee | November 25th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
First important point Eric, England wasn’t a political entity in 1812, Britain was. Britain is made up of 4 nations not just England.
Secondly yes you did help us win the 1st and 2nd world wars, albeit you joined the second a few years late. You can attack Britain if you want, doesn’t particularly bother me but remember the archbishop doesn’t speak for all British people same as Bush doesn’t speak for all Americans and Bin laden doesn’t speak for all Muslims. But I agree we can slag each other off, we just think of it as friendly fire.
I accept Britain hasn’t got that much power these days, again I couldn’t care less. Power envey is pathetic and I highly doubt the Archbishop is envious of America’s power, he’s got better things to be getting on with. Other people perhaps are but thats irrelevant.
Of course there are people protesting Bush when he goes over. Who can forget the ‘Yo Blair’ incident; then there is the fact that many Britons were against the war before it began, more so than in America at least 40% were against before we went in. People are starting to notice the special relationship isn’t so special.
However that being said we are allies and it shouldn’t matter what our leaders do or say because the average american and Briton probably have more in common with each other than our leaders and their policies do. No one here listens to the Archbishop so don’t let it bother you.
9. AgentFear | November 25th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
He’s just jealous he isn’t on the same playing field with God that America is.
Why doesn’t he just realize, then admit God thinks the USA is special.
God thinks we’re the bestest.
10. 1H8L1B5 | November 25th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
I can see that nothing’s changed here with Casper the Moderate and PeePee. Did either of you idiots catch Mark’s point that the CoE is in severe decline? Yeah, WeeWee, he only speaks for one in twenty-five, which is about the kook/sane person ratio in the U.K.
Ah, AgentFart is still here too. AF, I left americablog.com on good terms today. Why don’t you take my place over there? They’re all idiot kooks, so you’ll feel right at home.
11. Macker | November 25th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
This so-called Archbishop already has his backside in the air five times a day, facing toward an UNHOLY place called Mecca.
12. Casper | November 25th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
1H8L1B5.
Actually, I caught Mark’s point on the Church of England’s decline, I just didn’t consider it relevant to what he said.
BTW, did you read the entire interview? If anything it was pretty bland and hardly an endorsement of Islam. In fact many of the points he made about how we new to return to Christian values were points Mark has made on several occasions .
Macker’
“This so-called Archbishop already has his backside in the air five times a day, facing toward an UNHOLY place called Mecca.”
Good job, you just attacked over a million Christians and all the Moslems of the world.
13. Magnum Serpentine | November 26th, 2007 at 2:07 am
I hope, that when we have a Independent President in 2009 (meaning a president who is neither Republican or Demo-publican) That person will be able to repair the damage caused in the last 7 years.
14. weefee | November 26th, 2007 at 3:11 am
Yeah I caught the point that the CoE was in decline. I think I pointed that out in the last line of my post. Anyway he only represents the English Church not the whole of Britain.
15. 1H8L1B5 | November 26th, 2007 at 6:09 am
I hope, that when we have a Independent President in 2009 (meaning a president who is neither Republican or Demo-publican) That person will be able to repair the damage caused in the last 7 years.
I hope that, when you don’t get your wish in 2009, that you leap off a tall building.
weefee, I’ll be coming to England in late Spring or early Summer next year. My better half is being transferred there, and I’ll be there to take the piss out on every ignorant Brit I encounter. I trust I’ll find the U.K. as friendly towards me as she was back in 83-91, when I was there last. I had no problem with the Brits, i.e., the Brits who had the brains and courage to think for themselves. You wouldn’t qualify, so don’t bother looking me up…
16. Macker | November 26th, 2007 at 8:15 am
Casper: where the hell have you been?
17. edward | November 26th, 2007 at 8:26 am
The Archbishop of Canterbury is the head of the world wide anglican communion wish includes a substantial number of people in your own country. Oh and just for reference is the worlds second largest christian community.
18. Almiranta | November 26th, 2007 at 10:27 am
In times of peace and prosperity, religions often get a bit silly and feeble-minded. We have Catholics promoting open borders and we have Anglicans whining about the strength of the United States, we have all sorts of irrational posturing going on in the “name of God”.
Churches often attract the fuzzy-minded, who can flourish in the peace and prosperity made possible by strength and purpose and resolve and, sometimes, war, while at the same time whimpering about those nasty old strong people, and what they have had to do to make it possible to indulge in the whine in the first place.
I am sure the archbishop did not stop to consider that if his were the country in which he was speaking, he would not have the freedom to speak out against it.
I used to spend a lot of time in England, and I found the press to be so overwhelmingly liberal they were a joke. The people I met, from city folk to those hanging out in obscure and remote pubs, were open to being educated about the realities of life here, but they had certainly been fed a load of bull.
A few years ago, I had, for two consecutive years, interns from the UK. These were upper middle class well educated students, whose stereotypical attitudes toward the US were laughable. I spent as much time teaching them about our country as about our industry.
I took one through the neighborhood surrounding Columbine High School, to dispel the image he had of the area being, basically, a high-crime inner city kind of slum, dangerous on the face of it. When he saw the normal suburban homes in a lovely neighborhood, he was more open to the idea that perhaps the killers were just nuts and acting out internal pathologies than driven by a corrupt and violent culture. But he sure had that impression when he got here.
It’s much the same as an American stereotype of all Brits drinking tea from tiny china cups with one pinky extended, or any of several others, but it is far more nasty and insidious.
19. Almiranta | November 26th, 2007 at 10:38 am
One of the points I have made to many Brits is this:
In my nearly six decades in this country, the only crime I have experienced has been a car stolen from my driveway—and the thief was arrested, put in jail, and is still paying restitution.
Well, when spending time in Texas, I had five spare tires taken from my pickup on five different occasions, all in Fort Worth, but that is all. And that was Fort Worth……
I do not know anyone who has been murdered, mugged, shot, stabbed, or the victim of a violent crime.
However, the first time I visited England, my husband and I walked along Pall Mall following the Horse Guards to Buckingham Palace, then caught our plane to fly home, and the next moring a car bomb went off on that exact route, during the same parade, killing and maiming tourists, horses, and military personnel.
I used to get up early and walk down Oxford Street to Hyde Park and take a brisk walk around the park and then back through Picadilly Circus. On three different trips, bombs had been found in doorways along my route.
In other words, I was far closer to serious injury or death from violence in scattered visits to England than I ever was in day to day life in the United States, whether I was in cities in this country or in the mountains or driving across the country.
Starting back in 1980, when I started to visit England, I could not go into any museum, manor house, or other public building without having my bag searched, and everywhere we went we saw signs warning us to report abandoned bags or packages.
Yet Brits had an image, and probably still do, of America as being a violent and inherently dangerous place—because of GUNS. As if a man with a gun, who has to get close enough to be able to shoot you and has to be good enough to hit you when he does is so much more dangerous, to you or to society in general, than a man who will plant a bomb to go off later, killing or maiming dozens.
It’s a silly prejudice, fed by a silly Liberal media, and it has created a lot of harmful and false impressions that will probably never be dispelled.
20. Diana Powe | November 26th, 2007 at 10:53 am
Edward is correct in regards to the Anglican Communion worldwide. It is a large (approximately 77 million worldwide) and growing body with its highest rates of growth taking place on the continent of Africa. However, the usage of the word head implies that he holds a position of authority as the pope does for the Church of Rome. This is not the case. He is considered as “first among equals” with the primates of the other churches of the Communion including the Episcopal Church in the United States (ECUSA) whose presiding bishop is the Most Rev. Dr. Katharine Jefferts Schori. Even within the ECUSA the presiding bishop does not have presumptive authority, but shares authority as first among equals with the bishops of the 110 dioceses in the U.S. who elected her to her 9-year term.
As to the Archbishop’s criticisms, he would seem to be reacting to the idea of America often carelessly promulgated by the most firmly GOP-identified elements of Protestant belief in this country. While not a feature of sermons in sacramental churches, such as the Roman Catholic Church or the ECUSA, it is easy to find churches of the Southern Baptist Convention and independent congregations whose preachers clearly link what they view as God’s plan to their ideas of American exceptionalism. These, of course, are the same churches who identify Roman Catholics as idol-worshiping heretics and the Pope as aligned with Satan.
21. Eric T | November 26th, 2007 at 11:20 am
what I like about guns is, it is a hobby you can do by yourself. With golf or football or bowling you need to arrange people to meet together and have teams ect.. ect… With guns you just go to the range and shoot when you feel like it. You can have teams and competition shoots, sporting clays tourniments. But you don’t need too. Like when my wife starts naggin, I go down in the basement and reload some ammo, It is relaxing. I got a collection that has stuff handed down from ancestors, relics from historical battles. The English don’t like guns Australia, Canada, the entire British Commonwealth confinscated everyones guns. It is a shame, the turn of the century English double rifles were masterpieces of art, gold enlays of hunting scenes. Some of them worth hundreds of thousands. If we banned automobiles because of drunk driving accidents, would we be better off? If the English get nervous around guns, Ok thats them. We don’t EVER need their advice if they suggest we should, do it how they did over there.
22. weefee | November 26th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Edward I am Scottish therefore the ENGLISH Church does not speak to/for people in my own country, the Church of Scotland does. I think anyway people tend to pick and chose what they want to listen to or believe and anyone who swallows everything they are told straight away is daft.
Almiranta the 80s was during the troubles. The IRA were active in England at that point, hence the bag searches and bombs. It’s not really comparable to everyday life in America. We banned handguns after the Dunblane Massacre and we’ve been fortunate since then nothing like it has happened again. I accept that in many cases the killers are maniacs but I don’t see the need for people to own handguns. I know lots of people like to go shooting/hunting etc, my boyfriend and his dad go every year and that should be allowed, if the gun has a purpose but having a gun for the sake of having a gun is daft
Of course there are stereotypes thats how national identities are maintained. Although I think most people realise that they are a load of crap. I don’t think we see it as really dangerous the favourite one is that you’re trigger happy cowboys. Everyone knows its crap (despite friendly fire incidents) but every nation has a stereotype.
The most popular paper in Britain is the Sun, owned by Murdoch. The papers may be more liberal than American papers but then so are most Britons and many tend to be to the left of Americans.
Ih8libs yeah I hope they are as friendly as they were before and I am sure they will be. Don’t worry going to England isn’t something I take great delight in doing, with the exception of London.
23. edward | November 27th, 2007 at 8:27 am
weefee I am Welsh so what.
I was talking of the world wide anglican communion which the archbishop heads (or is first among equals) and includes the church of Scotland.
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