The French Civil War
December 2nd, 2007 at 05:32pm Mark Noonan
In case anyone wanted to know what a real civil war looks like:
IN retrospect, it was not a good idea to have left his pistol at home. Called to the scene of a traffic accident in the Paris suburbs last Sunday, Jean-François Illy, a regional police chief, came face to face with a mob of immigrant youths armed with baseball bats, iron bars and shotguns.
What happened next has sickened the nation. As Illy tried to reassure the gang that there would be an investigation into the deaths of two teenagers whose motorbike had just collided with a police car, he heard a voice shouting: “Somebody must pay for this. Some pigs must die tonight!”
The 43-year-old commissaire realised it was time to leave, but that was not possible: they set his car ablaze. He stood as the mob closed in on him, parrying the first few baseball bat blows with his arms. An iron bar in the face knocked him down.
“I tried to roll myself into a ball on the ground,” said Illy from his hospital bed. He was breathing with difficulty because several of his ribs had been broken and one had punctured his lung.
His bruised and bloodied face signalled a worrying new level of barbarity in the mainly Muslim banlieues, where organised gangs of rioters used guns against police in a two-day rampage of looting and burning last week.
Not far from where Illy was lying was a policeman who lost his right eye after being hit by pellets from a shotgun. Another policeman displayed a hole the size of a 10p coin in his shoulder where a bullet had passed through his body armour.
Altogether 130 policemen were injured, dozens by shotgun pellets and shells packed with nails that were fired from a homemade bazooka. It prompted talk of urban “guerrilla warfare” being waged on French streets against the forces of law and order.
Thus a century of official anti-Christianity in French law coupled with half a century of leftwing political correctness as regards immigrants, especially Moslem immigrants. France now has a segment of its population which has de-facto been removed from the day to day rule of French law and this has been allowed to happen because the post-Christian French society has thus far lacked not only the backbone to defend itself, but even the confidence in the good of French civilization which makes a person wish to have it defended. Probably not one in ten Frenchmen adhere to those moral and theological principles which gave birth to French civilization and sustained it through a thousand years of crisis. Right now, about one in ten of the people who live in France adhere to a set of moral and theological principles alien to French civilization, and increasingly under the control of those who are violently hostile to it. The battle is on - and at stake is whether or not France will remain French.
This undigested population contained within France is, as I said, increasingly under the control of those who are violently hostile to French civilization; but this is not the same as saying all those people are hostile. My view is that most of them - perhaps even 90% of them - would very much like to participate fully, as French citizens, in French civilization. The battle, then, will be decided based not upon the actual strength of the French and their opponents, but on who is more willing to fight for their side. The French, if they want to have a France, will have to recover their backbone - have to, that is, recover the basis of their civilization and stride forward confident in the goodness of France and while being welcoming of the stranger, insistent that in France, French civilization will be the norm for the entire population.
As the news story goes on to relate, a strong police presence in the violent areas has enforced calm - but the calm is only on the surface. Until those who instigated the violence and who fuel the fires of hatred are punished - and punished quite severely, as traitors to France - the people who fight France will just bide their time, gather their forces and wait confidently for the French to back down. The French must get in there and insist that French law and French social norms carry the day - and that will only happen if the French believe in themselves, their nation, and the moral and theological principles which created both.
How it will come out will remain to be seen - but the warning is also there for the United States. France, and the rest of Europe, is much further down a road that the American left wishes us to travel. While their intentions might be honorable and generous, the practical effects of leftwing social policy lead precisely to the destruction of the will to live in the host civilizaiton. Break down faith, break down family, break down the inherent honor in all honest work, break down the story of the nation and highlight all sins while ignoring all nobility, and what you get is a post-Christian nation which has tolerated itself into a corner. It has come for the French a time to fight or flee - for the United States, there is still time for us to prevent this descent into sociological madness.
Entry Filed under: Foreign Affairs, Social Issues
34 Comments
1. liberalT | December 2nd, 2007 at 5:45 pm
perhaps you should also discuss the French imperial project? You know - its not just by chance that France has a lot of immigration from Arab countries. You are neglecting the fact that France invaded and conquered them. The 50 years of horribly racist treatment of immigrants by French police?
Have you even ever been to France. Or is this just more Mark Noonan nonsense…
2. Mark Noonan | December 2nd, 2007 at 5:51 pm
LiberalT,
Yes, I’ve been to France. You on the left really got that mantra in your head that we on the right only think as we do because we’re unfamiliar with “the other”…
Anyways…
I’m sure the French have sinned - but the proper response to a sin is to cease doing it, not commit national suicide. And those radicals who fuel the fires in the Moslem communities don’t git a rat’s patoot about whether a French cop acted badly - all they want is power for themselves, and if the French cops don’t oblige by making an error, then the radicals will just make something up.
These radicals, by the way, are easily crushed - as we’ve shown in Baghdad and Anbar - but they can only be crushed by people who believe in something. On one side there are Moslem zealots who think that God commands them to kill and oppresss…on the other side, thus far, have been men and women with the name of French, but none of the spirit which once upon a time stood fast in front of Verdun and proclaimed that the enemy will not pass.
3. french student | December 2nd, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Gee, two or three nights of civil unrest, without any casualty, is a real civil war, whereas Iraq is not? The body counts don’t add up, Mark.
So you are saying the muslims riot because the christians are removed from power? For a professionnal writer, your point is sure confused.
As for the riots, there is, indeed, a segment of France’s youth that is desperate - but their religion is a rather secondary cause to their desperation. The real cause is their lack of money and jobs, and a dislike for Sarkozy who has an image of caring for big companies first, the people second.
These peoples merely want to make their voices heard by the government. Granted they go over the top to achieve this, but remember the body cout - none so far. Methinks a civil war would be bloodier, it certainly was for your country.
You see, the french are not afraid of their government. When they disagree, they protest. Sometimes it goes all the way into rioting. But an injured cop in these riots is still so rare as to make the news.
Another point : I believe the translation of shotgun is a little misleading, the gun used was a bird-hunting carbine - roughly the most powerful firearm one can legally have in France and take outside of the shooting range.
4. Mark Noonan | December 2nd, 2007 at 7:18 pm
French Student,
Just keep that head in the sand and maybe the Islamists will get around to beheading you last.
Also, study up a bit on France and learn what made it…
5. Gozer the Carpathian | December 2nd, 2007 at 7:25 pm
*Sighs*
Honestly we’re still defending these crazies? “They’re just poor and desperate.” Or “They just want their voices heard.”
And? Is that honestly an excuse to beat and maime ANYONE? I hate this BS of excusing people’s voilent actions. Though I bet if the French Military were called in and roughed up a few of these guys we’d be hearing cries of “intolerance” or some other nonsense.
The Simple fact remains that France has a serious issue in their own back yard. Will they have the courage to face it and fix it? I hope they will but I’m not holding my breath.
6. Casper | December 2nd, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Mark,
“Just keep that head in the sand and maybe the Islamists will get around to beheading you last.”
How did you get from riots to beheading? Has anyone lost their head up to this point (pun intended)?
7. Mark Noonan | December 2nd, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Casper,
Demographics plus the French have, so far, shown themselves unwilling to fight - French politiicans have preferred to kick the problem down the road and hope that nothing horrible happens while they are in office (the rape of the odd Frenchwoman for daring to dress like a Frenchwoman or the attempted murder of gay politicians is considered “nothing horrible” by some politicians).
The French are not having children, the Moslems are - unless the French come to believe in themselves again, they’ll offer nothing to these Moslem children which will make them wish to shed their Moslem identity in favor of a French or, at least, French-Moslem identity. People are drawn to a clarion call, not to a bit of PC sociological mush put forth by people who seem both degenerate and craven. We Catholics, for instance, are finding that the more boldly we proclaim our faith, the more converts or “reverts” (ie, fallen away Catholics returning to the faith) we get - so, too, with the French and their civilizaiton…if they don’t start offering something hard and precious, then they’ll find themselves swamped by people who found something else.
Of course, to do this the French will have to recapture their past - to drink deeply of their Christian wellsprings. We’ll see if they can do it, before they are destroyed.
8. What? | December 2nd, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Yeah Mark,
That’s what everyone should do. Everyone should become miliatant religious zealots. Great idea!
Hmmm, but this is not your original thought. Who else is driven to fight for their religious beliefs? Ummm oh, the very terrorists we are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, our enemies.
You always claim we are better than our enemy yet there are somethings you admire about them. If you were born in Baghdad, I wonder what side you would be on right now?
Also, the French do believe in something. The very things this country was founded on. Liberty and freedom of ideas. This may amaze you but a person can believe in and fight for something other than religion. Christ has never been the driving force behind our wars.
Finally, I ask you what should the French do? Imprison muslims? Deport them? Ban them from practicing their religion? What is your solution?
9. neocon | December 2nd, 2007 at 9:12 pm
And now you know why Zarkosy has reached out to Bush and the US. The only other country whose leaders “get it”.
Current leaders that is.
10. Mark Noonan | December 2nd, 2007 at 9:15 pm
What,
Ah, you poor fool - I mean, I really feel for you, to be that ignorant that you can’t even read what a person says without passing it through a hate-filled filter of leftwing ideology…
11. Baseball News, Fantasy Ba&hellip | December 2nd, 2007 at 9:36 pm
[…] unknown created a sweet baseball article today.Here’s a mini excerpt.Called to the scene of a traffic accident in the Paris suburbs last Sunday, Jean-François Illy, a regional police chief, came face to face with a mob of immigrant youths armed with baseball bats, iron bars and shotguns. … […]
12. Dittohead4Life | December 2nd, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Have you even ever been to France. Or is this just more Mark Noonan nonsense…
Have you ever been out of mommy’s basement? Have you ever punctuated correctly?
The real cause is their lack of money and jobs, and a dislike for Sarkozy who has an image of caring for big companies first, the people second.
Mark, I decided to post in this thread, because I was gonna offer a sarcastic comment, blaming Sarkozy for all of this. I’ve been beaten to the punch, by someone who’s not being sarcastic.
Frog student, was it Sarkozy’s fault when Jack Iraq was in charge? You’re not posting from France at all, are you? You’re a student learning French, somewhere in some college here in America, huh? Idiot.
13. Movies News » Blog &hellip | December 2nd, 2007 at 11:14 pm
[…] The French Civil WarBy Mark NoonanWhat happened next has sickened the nation. As Illy tried to reassure the gang that there would be an investigation into the deaths of two teenagers whose motorbike had just collided with a police car, he heard a voice shouting: …Blogs For Victory - http://blogsforvictory.com […]
14. Tractatus | December 2nd, 2007 at 11:41 pm
we on the right only think as we do because we’re unfamiliar with “the other”…
Well, you don’t do much to disprove the notion. Speaking of proving notions:
a century of official anti-Christianity in French law
Prove it. Show me actual text of French law saying that Christianity is unwelcome or undesired. Not this “they allow abortion–that’s anti-Christian!” type of stuff you’re so fond of, actual declarations of hostility toward Christianity. You wouldn’t make such a claim with no actual proof, would you? Of course you would.
15. What? | December 2nd, 2007 at 11:50 pm
Mark,
Way to not respond. What else am I suppose to take from this quote:
“Of course, to do this the French will have to recapture their past - to drink deeply of their Christian wellsprings. We’ll see if they can do it, before they are destroyed.”
You want them to regain religious fervor and fight the Muslims. You can dress up that statement all you want but this is your point, isn’t it? If it isn’t you really need to work on conveying your message better.
Mark, I don’t hate you. I also don’t hate Bush. I think you are both wrong. That is different from hating you. Also note that I don’t use childish insults like you. (Generally a sign you can’t create a real counter-argument so you attack the person making the argument) I think you and many of your fellow rightwing bloggers hate me for even challenging your views.
Watching 60 Minutes tonight I saw the last Christain vicar in Baghdad. He said his flock had either fled or been killed by muslims after the invasion. He commented that the Muslim religion had gone wrong. I agree with this statement. He also said Christianity had gone just as wrong in the past. This is true, too. I don’t want it to go wrong again.
I sense you truly believe Christianity cannot go wrong. This vicar and I think you are wrong.
16. What? | December 3rd, 2007 at 12:06 am
Hmmm,
Rereading your post, Mark, I get a sense of what you really want. Frightening. You write:
People are drawn to a clarion call, not to a bit of PC sociological mush put forth by people who seem both degenerate and craven. We Catholics, for instance, are finding that the more boldly we proclaim our faith, the more converts or “reverts” (ie, fallen away Catholics returning to the faith) we get - so, too, with the French and their civilizaiton…if they don’t start offering something hard and precious, then they’ll find themselves swamped by people who found something else. Of course, to do this the French will have to recapture their past - to drink deeply of their Christian wellsprings. We’ll see if they can do it, before they are destroyed.”
So basically, you want France to become a Christian nation (read theocracy) and try to convert Muslims? And for those who don’t convert what consequence? As I recall Catholics know exactly what to do with those people. Anyone got some firewood and a match?
On a side note, if the Iraq war has taught us anything it is that people with stark differences in their religious views have trouble getting along. You are now advocating the French become more Christian to make Muslims want to be more French. Sigh. Mark your brain truly works in mysterious ways.
17. Mark Noonan | December 3rd, 2007 at 12:06 am
what,
I don’t think you hate me - but your worldview is either clouded by hatred, or is entirely ignorant. If what you take from “Of course, to do this the French will have to recapture their past - to drink deeply of their Christian wellsprings. We’ll see if they can do it, before they are destroyed” is “That’s what everyone should do. Everyone should become miliatant religious zealots. Great idea!” then ignorance or hatred is the only explanation.
The Christian wellsprings of French civilization - that includes a lot of things…all that art, architecture, philosphy, education, missionary work…
18. phnx | December 3rd, 2007 at 12:07 am
Tractus, you leftist seem to have no knowledge of history. The French Revolution stripped the Catholic Church of ALL of its property and much of its treasure. several thousand priests were murdered in what became known as the Sepetmber Massacre.
Eventually 30,000 Catholic priests were forced to leave France. To this day the State owns and operates all churches in France.
The irony is that the Catholic Church initially supported the revolution.
19. What? | December 3rd, 2007 at 1:46 am
Mark,
You are backing of your position. You don’t merely want France to be more Chrisitian, you want them to push this Christianity on others.
You write:
“The French must get in there and insist that French law and French social norms carry the day - and that will only happen if the French believe in themselves, their nation, and the moral and theological principles which created both.”
The “Christian wellspring” may include a lot of wonderful things but once you decide to use them as a basis to govern others who don’t drink from said “wellspring” you are asking for trouble.
If another religion besides yours decided to make there norms the social norms, would you be game?
The ultimate problem in France is not a lack of Christianity but it is both cultural and economic. The people rioting don’t have jobs and live in a very different, defined culture which doesn’t really accomadate them or engage them.
Islam, like all religions, gives both value and structure to their lives. Unfortunately it is providing both in a negative manner. Telling them their religion is the wrong one and insisting they follow French (by which you mean Christian) norms seems like folly.
20. Mark Noonan | December 3rd, 2007 at 1:51 am
what,
You reach for it, but you just can’t seem to grasp it - the reason they’re rioting is because they can…because they believe (heretofor correctly) that nothing concrete will be done to stop them, or punish them after it happens. They have nothing but contempt for a society which neither integrates them nor kicks them out. The French don’t have to go in there and tell them that Islam is wrong, but they must show them that France stands for something, and that people living in France must conform to some societal norms…and, for France, that means France’s Christian norms (it is the abandonment of Christian norms which is the root of the problem..sorry, but you’ll never convince a Moslem immigrant that France is worthy of love and respect because pornography and nude beaches are easily accessible).
The old saw stands - stand for something, or fall for anything. France, since WWI, has stood for nothing…and now there’s nearly nothing left for France to stand for.
21. What? | December 3rd, 2007 at 2:24 am
Mark,
You ignore facts to draw your conclusion. Nearly every Christian in Iraq has been run out of the country or killed so I don’t think the Muslims in France are going to be all that friendly if the French suddenly find religion and try to force it on them.
Again, it troubles me that you believe “standing for something” means believing in religion.
And if France has stood for nothing, what do we stand for? Not Christ, so what do we stand for?
I don’t think muslims want to be “integrated.” They are quite happy being muslim. I think they are bored and want jobs. If people didn’t have jobs here, they would riot. In France, Islam is just the common characteristic that unites them further.
Also, why are you so smug tonight?
22. Dittohead4Life | December 3rd, 2007 at 5:45 am
You wouldn’t make such a claim with no actual proof, would you? Of course you would.
You wouldn’t troll in opposition blogs without a brain, would you? Of course you would.
Also note that I don’t use childish insults like you.
Calling someone a poor fool, or ignorant, is hardly a “childish insult.” Especially in your case, because the shoe fits. You totally misunderstand Mark’s point, as do all of the puke trolls who come here to demean Mark’s devout faith.
(Generally a sign you can’t create a real counter-argument so you attack the person making the argument)…
Or a sign that one really hates libgressive puke lemming trolls, which is my case. You asshats come here to be contrarians, and in some cases–minnowhead–scurry on back to your own blogs to brag “how you kicked Nooonan’s/Margolis’ ass.” Go.over.to.americablog.com, where.you’ll.be.heralded.as.an.intellectual.
Here, you’re just another d*ckweed, causing trouble. Or in Diane’s or Linda’s case, just another stupid cow…
23. Eric T | December 3rd, 2007 at 7:50 am
“a mob of immigrant youths armed with baseball bats, iron bars and shotguns. ”
The immigrants are guests in the country. They should not be allowed to buy or bring weapons.
Citzens of the country should be allowed that right, but not visitors or guest workers.
Sounds like the French police need some bigger and more powerful guns. Maybe they also need to be more selective about the immigrants they are letting in as well.
24. FmrMarine | December 3rd, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Deport, Deport, Deport…..
You get caught rioting, you get loaded on a boat and dropped off in samilia or some other islamic paradise.
25. What? | December 3rd, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Dittohead,
I again state my contention that you are out of arguments and are forced to try to hurt my feelings to make yourself feel better.
I have to thank you, however, for proving my point. Mark thinks Christian faith is a purely wonderful thing that solves everything and that if the French became more Christian, the country would be just super.
You, being a Christian, prove that even Christians can be hate-filled, irrationale, and intolerant of people who disagree with you.
People like you and Mark don’t seek compromise. You seek conversion. Mark just puts it a little more eloquently and ignores the fact “Christians” like you exist. Conversion is fine if everyone went along with it. But just as I and a large portion of the country are not agreeing with you, French Muslims will not agree to abide by Christian norms (whatever those are). Look at how angry you get when I don’t bow down to your views. Just imagine how the Muslims would react.
So thank you for showing people who drink from Mark’s “Christian wellspring” don’t all become Mother Theresa.
26. Rana Quijotesca | December 3rd, 2007 at 2:22 pm
The islamic immigrants are resistant to integration into broader French culture, but Mark is leaving out the role that mainstream French culture has on this problem.
France is, and has been, a very xenophobic country. It has a very narrow view of what its culture should be and who should be included.
I learned this first hand while traveling through France with a group of Americans, an Italian bus driver and a German guide (it was the last country of a four country trip). Let’s say that we weren’t treated too nicely…
There is plenty of blame to go around for the current state of French society, but the solution is two fold… the immigrants have to want to integrate, and the French citizenry has to want to accept them.
Notice how Christianity has nothing to do with it… it’s not detrimental, but it’s definitely not required…
and what?, you should use a different example… Mother Theresa wasn’t that great…
27. What? | December 3rd, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Rana,
Who would you suggest if not Mother Theresa?
Also, antecdotal evidence is pretty weak:
“I learned this first hand while traveling through France with a group of Americans, an Italian bus driver and a German guide (it was the last country of a four country trip). Let’s say that we weren’t treated too nicely…”
I found the French very friendly and welcoming relative to other Western European countries.
I think that you were on a tour was a large part of your problem. When I see bus loads of tourist I get angry and I don’t even have to serve them.
Also, integrate is not the word I would use. They don’t have to become French they simply have to not see the French as a threat.
And I don’t see how sudden large re-awakening of Christian fervor in France would not isolate the Islamic community further.
Christian-far right in this country has been a divisive force. Look at how non-christians (liberals) are treated on this site. We are called Nazis. We are compared to Stalin. We are the cause of all the country’s problems.
Thankfully I still think this divisive breed of Christian belief is a small minority amongst the vast number of decent people of faith.
28. Aaron | December 3rd, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Civil war? please. The brutality of our race riots here in the US make these look tame by comparison.
As french student pointed out, these disturbances are more about class issues and jobs - they have almost nothing to do with Islam. Turns out the Moslem immigrants in France (largely legacies of French colonies in north Africa) are indeed like most French: they are not very religiously active. But they are poor, and have been marginalzied by a succession of right-wing governments, and have suffered racism.
This all has nothing to do with Mark’s imagined namby-pamby leftist multi-cultralism. Conservatives, not “anti-christian” socialists, have been in charge of France for some time now (yes, Chirac, Sarkozy’s predecessor, was also conservative - in France, unlike in the US, a conservative is not solely defined by love for Mr Bush).
A while back the Conservatives adopted a hard-right immigration policy that any Rightie would love. No multiculturalism allowed; if you live in France, you had better assimilate right now or get bounced. No affirmative action either; employers can discriminate against Muslims without penalty. And French schools do not treat all religions equally, but give preferential treatment to Christian culture.
It isn’t multiculturalism or “anti-christian” policies that led to these riots in France. It was assimilationism. Immigrants to France are required to sign an “integration contract” that stipulates instruction in the French language and French values. No multiculturalism allowed.
The French are making most of the same mistakes with their immigrant populations that white Americans did with African American populations, and with many of the same ugly results. France takes a right-wing, Charles Johnsonesque approach to Muslims, isolating them from mainstream society, ghettoizing them and enforcing a unicultural policy. Wingnuts are fantasizing here in this country that these riots are part of a worldwide Islamofascist intifada. But France isn’t experiencing “l’intifada”. It’s experiencing a mini (and less violent) version of “Les Watts”.
But don’t let these facts get in the way of your unrestrained gloating over Muslim youths rioting in Paris. Understanding the situation would require you to think and learn stuff and all. Too much work. You’d rather just fall back on your comfortable old fears, prejudices, and hatreds.
The right is thrilled by the riots because they ignorantly see them as confirming their two pet prejudices: how dysfunctional and bad France is, and that Muslims are animals.
The riots in France are not a Muslim thing, and are not particularly indicative of Islam. I know you wing-nuts oh so want it to be about Islam, but this is really about the poverty and racism experienced by African immigrants in France.
The French are terribly racist towards its African population, which is ironic since they constantly carp about how racist Americans are. But Mark conveniently tries to blame his twin boogie-men for this violence: Islam and “socialist secularism”.
Most of the youths that are rioting are between 13 and 18 years old. They are not inspired by Islam, and have not been radicalized as Islamics. They are frustrated at being generally treated like dirt by the French (something which you should probably be sympathetic with!). That is NOT to say that the violence is in any way justified. It is merely to say that it is an inaccurate and self-serving fantasy to ascribe these riots to Islam.
And I am not trying to be a supporter of Islam here. Truth be told, I don’t like any religions. But I hate it when the right tries to use incidents like this to justify its misguided prejudices towards any particular group of people. If you think that is too “PC”, so be it.
The immigrants in question are predominantly from north Africa, and as such happen to be mostly Muslims. France colonized north Africa until the 60’s, so it is not unexpected that a lot of the immigrant population is from there. But there are African youths rioting in France who are from Christian areas as well.
29. Mark Noonan | December 4th, 2007 at 1:34 am
Aaron,
It would be hard to find a comment more divorced from reality than yours.
30. Mark Noonan | December 4th, 2007 at 1:37 am
Rana,
Oh, it is required - because France is already dying…it will be replaced, and quite shortly. Now the only question is will be be replaced by a revitalised Christian culture, or by an Islamic culture? If the French want there to be a France in 2107 then they’d better get back to basics.
31. Aaron | December 4th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Mark -
LOL! How do you reconcile this:
“Aaron, It would be hard to find a comment more divorced from reality than yours.”
Immediately followed by this:
“Oh, it is required - because France is already dying…it will be replaced, and quite shortly.”
Yes, Mark, someone here is quite divorced from reality… Which is why you don’t have any factual or logical rebuttal to my post.
32. What? | December 4th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Aaron,
Realize that when Mark says something like:
“It would be hard to find a comment more divorced from reality than yours.”
he is really saying I have no evidence to back up what I am saying and I have no response to your argument.
Consider yourself the victor.
33. Karl Heinrich | December 9th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
You are totally right, Mark. I am French, one of your perhaps ten per cent who are really fed up, who feel proud of their history, not guilty ,and who would prefer their so-called government to do the job the new president promised he would do. This got him elected.
Your analysis is absolutely correct. We have heard a thousand times during the slow build-up of the present mess : ” Do not exaggerate.. We are not to that stage yet “. And we have gone through that stage alright a year later and
through another stage the following year. But always one hears the same bleeding hearts’ soothing rethorics, boldly professed from their (still) safe apartments of Paris expensive “arrondissements”. I believe there will be a civil war or rather an ethnic war.( Do you hear that fool : ” don’t exaggerate.. they have only authorized bird -hunting carbines”)
Best regards : K.H.
34. tuchtklacht Boskamp %26 &hellip | January 29th, 2008 at 9:24 am
tuchtklacht Boskamp %26 Willems Advocaten
Occasionally when you have already used Yahoo to search for civil law info and still need more, do not forget about your local library.