What to do With the Old Bones
December 2nd, 2007 at 02:40am Mark Noonan
A long and contentious debate:
WASHINGTON - Scientists hoping to study the ancient skeleton known as Kennewick Man are protesting efforts that they say could block them from examining one of the oldest and most complete set of bones ever found in North America.
For the third time in four years, the scientists oppose a Senate bill that would allow federally recognized tribes to claim ancient remains even if they can’t prove a link to a current tribe.
They also are contesting draft regulations issued by the Bush administration on disposal of culturally unaffiliated remains.
Both measures could end up with the same result, scientists say: preventing an improved understanding of North American history and the role of the continent’s first inhabitants.
If adopted, the proposed changes could “result in a world heritage disaster of unprecedented proportions” and “rob our descendants of the unique insights concerning the shared heritage of all people that physical anthropological studies of culturally unidentifiable human remains can provide,” the American Association of Physical Anthropologists said in a statement.
Supporters call such concerns overblown. They say the changes are intended to clarify the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, also known as NAGPRA, to ensure that federally recognized tribes can safeguard the graves of their ancestors.
As regards Kennewick man - from what I have gathered over the years, the tribes fighting the examination of the bones are doing so in the service of various politically correct myths about the people living in the Americas when Columbus came ashore. It seems that Kennewick man isn’t related to anyone currently living in North America, and thus might represent the real first inhabitants of North America, thus making all that kerfuffle over “Native American” rather academic, because no one living today could claim descent from the first - and thus indigenous - people of the Americas. A lot of effort has been invested in the bogus story that the people here when Columbus arrived lived some sort of idyllic life completely in harmony with everyone and everything. Given that the people living here then were, well, people, anyone with the sense that God gave little, white mice knows that such a story isn’t just false, but laughably false…but never let it be said that the people who enforce political correctness are cleverer than little, white mice.
As for the scientists who want to study the remains - well, they’re just being science types and they want to poke and prod these remains in order to discover everything they can about them so that they can then get a really cool Nova documentary done about them.
Both sides are being rather foolish about the whole issue - no person can have rational objection to a scientific study of remains which cannot be identified and tied to persons currently living. Kennewick man lived many thousands of years ago, he appears to not be genetically related to anyone currently living, so a thorough study of the remains is entirely within bounds. On the other hand, Kennewick man was, after all is said and done, a human being - a unique and uniquely valuable creation of God, and thus his remains must be treated with proper respect. What that means is that once the science types have got a good look at him and taken some samples for study, the remains should be re-interred as close to the original burial place as is practical. This way the claims of science and the claims of humanity are both satisfied. There is, in my view, something just horribly wrong in putting a human being on display in a museum - who ever buried Kennewick man wasn’t thinking strange people in the future would put him on display.
Discover, exhume, study, re-inter. That is the way to do it, in my view. What do you think?
Entry Filed under: Science, Social Issues
32 Comments
1. js | December 2nd, 2007 at 9:36 am
I disagree with you.
When we took the lands of the Indians, we destroyed so much of thier heritage, and what would have been thier nation had we not interfered with thier affairs.
Compare it to what the Romans did to Israel 2000 years ago. Much of what we did to the Indians is the same.
Its not really anyone right to dig up the bones of the dead, not scientiests, not lawyers, nor judges. Those who speak up for the rights of those dead are excercising an obligation we all should endorse.
A tribe need not prove direct ancestory to protect the bones of thier ancestors, all that need be done is to demonstrate that the grave was in what would have been considered thier homeland. Anyone who affends them should be brought to bear in a court of law, just like they would be if they were caught digging up the bones in Arlington National Cemetary.
2. Dittohead4Life | December 2nd, 2007 at 10:52 am
Discover, exhume, study, re-inter. That is the way to do it, in my view. What do you think?
Why re-inter, Mark, if it’s proven that there’s no link to the people who currently inhabit the land where the discovery was made.
That is to say, why bury a bunch of bones, when the soul has long left the body?
Way to go all PC on us, js…
3. Bigfoot | December 2nd, 2007 at 11:34 am
who ever buried Kennewick man wasn’t thinking strange people in the future would put him on display.
Do we know that he even was buried? The reality is that many ancient remains, such as the Alpine “Ice Man”, are from people dying without being given any type of burial. Yes, we should respect Native American burial sites - if in fact, that’s what they are.
Your idea, Mark, is probably one of the more sensible ways to resolve this controversy. The trouble is, like the “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy on gays in the military, it’s bound to be unsatisfactory to many on both sides.
From what I’ve been able to gather about Kennewick Man, his skull showed him to be most similar, among Old World populations, to the Ainu of Japan. A fragment of a Clovis-style point was found in his pelvis - but was determined not be to related to how he died. It appears that someone, most likely one of the Clovis people, attacked him with a spear. That may be part of the problem with the “give him to a tribe” crowd. The spearpoint fragment would show that the Clovis people could be violent - in a manner that we might even consider racist - to a human being different from them. This is something that the modern PC racists (the people who take racism seriously only when the racist is white) can’t bare to deal with.
4. Almiranta | December 2nd, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Bigfoot’s comments are right on.
Sure, the early civilzations living on this continent had ways of life that were, in many ways, wonderful. But the naive or politically motivated ignore or deny the fact that these people were also often racist, were violent, were often vicious, used torture, practiced genocide, often indulged in human sacrifice and had slaves.
Even the milder Indian cultures, the Pueblo tribes of the Hopi, Navajo, and the old Anasazi, had brutal aspects.
The determination to romanticize these peoples, and at the same time use the romantic fantasy to attack our own culture, is very typical of the Left, but it is not an accurate depiction of life in those times, or of those cultures.
Somehow I think if it were a Christian religion objecting to the use of bones for scientific research, the Left would not be so defensive of the position.
Remember, this is a political movement which encourages the destruction of human life for research purposes and which scorns religion, while at the same time, out of the other sides of their mouths so to speak, is defending a quasi-religious objection to research on some remains of a man who has been dead for centuries, and with no connection to the groups involved.
All we ask is a little common sense and consistency, folks….
5. js | December 2nd, 2007 at 1:04 pm
So, the white mans civilization is also racist, they are rapists, the are bigots, they are liars, cheats, and theives.
Why dont we dig up all the bones in Europe that they cant document ancestory on?
What is more relevant than these liberal choices, is that if there is a possibility that they are related or not, that doesnt matter, the nation, upon whose bones were found in, which was Native American we are absolutely certain of, should have the right to expect that thier dead ancestors are interred with respect, not sawed and drilled and analyzed by the same liars and thieves that stole thier land.
The claim over rides scientific inquiry. The rights of these people, just like our rights to insure the sanctity of the graves of our ancestors, is irrefutable.
6. FmrMarine | December 2nd, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Almirana
I concur,
there were less than 2 million aboriginal, backward, warring natives in what is now the USA when we arrived here.
We didnt destroy their “culture” they lost it through the evolution of time.
Af far as the DEAD mans bones….dig them up…..study them, throw them in a 7-11 dumpster when complete.
Believe me…he wont know the difference!
7. js | December 2nd, 2007 at 1:27 pm
>>>>We didnt destroy their “culture” they lost it through the evolution of time.>>>>
What you dont know know about the American Indians is pretty obvious. From the late 1800s to the late/mid 1900’s we forced thier children into catholic schools and outlawed thier parents from teaching them thier hereditary language.
White society went to extreme efforts to destroy thier culture. You are just ignorant about history.
8. FmrMarine | December 2nd, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Catholic schools, or tying their enemies to ant hills, disemboweling them, scalping them etc etc etc
sure a real disaster to their “culture” to break them of being savages.
Actually it was not meant to destroy anything, it was to prepare them for the new world that was surrounding them in which they could not survive in with out changing
,and of course lets throw up the old liberal mantra it was all the white CHRISTIAN mans fault.
9. Mark Noonan | December 2nd, 2007 at 2:19 pm
js,
You know anything about stone age peoples? I mean, other than what some PC book or professor taught you? In North America, the Indians dropped their ancestral ways like a bad habit as soon as they came into contact with the products of European civilization. Do you think the natives were stupid? Do you think they really liked working for hours to make a flint axe which would dull after a few strokes? Have you ever tried to sew leather with a needle made out of bone? The ancient culture of the plains Indians, as we knew it when we moved into the area in the 1860’s, was only a century or two old…they didn’t have horses until they got them from the Europeans…and those plains Indians were on fire to get hold of steel blades, cotton fabric, firearms, etc…
Stop thinking of the Indians as some sort of alien species - they were just like you and me; desiring as much technology as they could get their hands on and determined to alter the natural environment as much as possible to make life more comfortable for themselves.
10. Casper | December 2nd, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Mark,
I agree with you on this one. Examining his remains can add a great deal of information about those who came to the Americas.
“In North America, the Indians dropped their ancestral ways like a bad habit as soon as they came into contact with the products of European civilization.”
Not quite true Mark. The Plains Indians adapted their civilization to the influx of European goods just has we are constantly adapting our civilization to new technologies. They didn’t give up their ways. It should also be noted that the Plains Indians we think of (the Lakota, Crow, etc.) were not the first Native Americans to inhabit the Great Plains.
“there were less than 2 million aboriginal, backward, warring natives in what is now the USA when we arrived here.”
FmrMarine ,
You might want to do a little research in this area. Current estimates are that there were somewhere between 120-200 million Native Americans living here when Columbus arrived. It’s estimated that as many as 30 million people lived in present day central Mexico. As for them being backward, the Mayans, Aztecs, and Incas along with other groups, were at least on same level as the Greek and Roman Civilizations. Over half the crops we grow today were originally domesticated by native Americans.
11. David/California | December 2nd, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Chicago Boyz devoted considerable discussion to this subject about a year ago. One of the considerations that has been omitted from the public debate is that the skull found in the Pacific Northwest was definitely of Northern European ancestry. Scientists have tenatively hypothisized, based on the skulls age, the first wave of North American immigration was European, which was exterminated by subsequent migrations of Asians (present-day ‘Indians’) - a genocide identical to what the ‘Indians’ accuse the subsequent waves of Europeans of doing.
It was these preliminary findings that sent the Indian tribes to court and the Clinton Administration to get an order halting all investigation. Obviously, if Indian tribes lose the ‘victim’ narrative, it could mean a lot fewer casinos. This dispute isn’t over respecting the dead - it’s about control of the narrative for political and economic benefits, versus scientific inquiry.
12. Casper | December 2nd, 2007 at 5:19 pm
David/California,
“One of the considerations that has been omitted from the public debate is that the skull found in the Pacific Northwest was definitely of Northern European ancestry. ”
Not necessarily. From Wikipedia:
“Anthropologist Joseph Powell of the University of New Mexico was finally allowed to examine the remains and his conclusions were contradictory. Kennewick Man was in fact not European but rather resembled south Asians and the Ainu people of northeast Asia.[2] The results of a graphic comparison, including size, of Kennewick Man to 18 modern populations conducted by Chatters et al. to determine the skeleton’s relation to modern ancestry showed that he was most closely related to the Ainu. However, when size was excluded as a factor, no association to any population was established.[2]“
13. liberalT | December 2nd, 2007 at 5:31 pm
look Mark and others
assuredly life for the native americans was not idealic - they had their wars , struggles, etc just like every one else.
But surely not even you would attempt to claim that the arrivals of Europeans worked out well for them - or are you ???
14. Mark Noonan | December 2nd, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Casper,
They grabbed as much of European civilization as they could - the Plains Indians were less effected, in some ways, than others but this was because the Plains Indians were the last to directly confront European colonization of their lands. This, in turn, was a function of the fact that until railroads made overland transportation cost effective, there was nothing in the Great Plains that anyone, other than the Plains Indians, wanted (and I’ll bet dollars to donuts that the Plains Indians were orginally the big losers in the intra-Indian battles for land…they got “stuck”, as it were, with the Great Plains because they weren’t strong enough to hold lands along the eastern or western seaboards).
As a matter of curiosity - whence comes the figure of 120 million people living in the Ameicas in 1492? Doing a quick bit of addition, there probably weren’t even 100 million Europeans at that point in time - and they had vastly superior agricultural practices as well as the benefits of large scale international trade.
15. Mark Noonan | December 2nd, 2007 at 5:46 pm
liberalT,
Depends on what you mean by that - certainly, those natives who died of smallpox came out losers in the exchange; but when you take the descendent of an Indian who now lives a middle class life in the United States, we can only say that he was lucky that his ancestors had to put up with Conquistadores and Puritans.
16. Casper | December 2nd, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Mark,
“As a matter of curiosity - whence comes the figure of 120 million people living in the Ameicas in 1492? ”
The figure came from “1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus” by Charles Mann.
There is considerable debate over the figure, but he makes a pretty good case. The article in Wikipedia has estimates that ranged from a low of 8.4 million to a high of 112.5 million. Considering that there were probably at least 25-30 million people in the Aztec Empire and 12-15 million people in the Incan Empire I would go with the high end. We also know that there were Native Americas living in every region of North and South America when Columbus arrived.
“Doing a quick bit of addition, there probably weren’t even 100 million Europeans at that point in time”
The area of Europe is 3,930,000 square miles. The combined area of North and South America is 16,340,000 square miles. Americans had a lot bigger area to spread out in.
“and they had vastly superior agricultural practices as well as the benefits of large scale international trade.”
Don’t be so sure about the superior agricultural practices. Native Americans domesticated both maize and potatoes both crops which have a much higher yield per acre than any of the European crops of that time. There is a lot of evidence that Native Americas as a group were fed as well or better than Europeans of that time.
17. David/California | December 2nd, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Casper,
I find Wikipedia an unreliable source, particularly on subjects with even a hint of politicalization. Note that the antropologist you site was (a.) hired by the same government that poured asphalt over the archeological dig where K-Man was found to prevent further discoveries, (b.) was not peer-reviewed, (c.) didn’t permit independent verification of his findings, (d.) and further testing was halted by government order. Want to know more? Go to:
http://www.friendsofpast.org/earliest-americans/
“There is very strong evidence that the Kennewick Man has his ultimate roots in Europe…”
18. Casper | December 2nd, 2007 at 7:20 pm
David/California,
“There is very strong evidence that the Kennewick Man has his ultimate roots in Europe…”
I’m not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that there is some disagreement as to where he came from. That’s why I would love to have them test the DNA. At the least, it would open up some new lines of inquiry.
19. Casper | December 2nd, 2007 at 7:26 pm
David/California,
BTW, thanks for the link. If I were to go into archaeology right now, I would concentrate my efforts on the Americas. I predict we are going to be making some very important discoveries in the next few years.
20. USA | December 2nd, 2007 at 10:02 pm
“A lot of effort has been invested in the bogus story that the people here when Columbus arrived lived some sort of idyllic life completely in harmony with everyone and everything.”
Why does this scare you Mark? Ha ha ha. Maybe you should talk to some old indian before you shoot off your bigotted lies. Ha ha ha.
You know what’s laughably false, every thing you think is true. Ha ha ha.
21. USA | December 2nd, 2007 at 10:07 pm
” But the naive or politically motivated ignore or deny the fact that these people were also often racist, were violent, were often vicious, used torture, practiced genocide, often indulged in human sacrifice and had slaves.”
LoL, oh my god. And people psychologically project themselves onto others so their ego can deal with thier anxieties. You conservatives are such cracked pots. ha ha ha. mindless fools all of you. ha ha ha.
22. USA | December 2nd, 2007 at 10:09 pm
“desiring as much technology as they could get their hands on and determined to alter the natural environment as much as possible to make life more comfortable for themselves.”
LOL your so uneducated and crazy. ha ha ha. your so stupid sir. ha ha ha.
23. USA | December 2nd, 2007 at 10:15 pm
“You know anything about stone age peoples? I mean, other than what some PC book or professor taught you?”
ha ha ha. Yeah books and school is stupid huh? Mark? ha ha ha! What?! You get all your infomation from your pastor don’t you? ha ha ha Just like the time you told me liberalism sprang from fascism, ha ha, did your pastor tell you that? ha ha ha. You are really dumb. You can’t hold a candle to any of these people you always insist on talking down to.
24. Casper | December 2nd, 2007 at 10:28 pm
USA,
Did you have anything meaningful to add to the discussion? What do you know about Precolumbian America?
25. Dittohead4Life | December 2nd, 2007 at 11:10 pm
Af(sic) far as the DEAD mans bones?.dig them up?..study them, throw them in a 7-11 dumpster when complete.
Believe me?he wont know the difference!
Hoo-Rah!!! Them bones…
26. js | December 2nd, 2007 at 11:27 pm
>>>>>Stop thinking of the Indians as some sort of alien species - they were just like you and me; desiring as much technology as they could get their hands on and determined to alter the natural environment as much as possible to make life more comfortable for themselves<<<<<<
Im not sure about what you alude to knowing, but my mom was born on one of those reservations, she attended one of those boarding schools.
When you try to dissuade me of my beliefs with illusions about logic, you totally forget that the land you live on was thier homes, thier lands, the inheritance of thier generations, that the white people stole by lying, cheating and murdering honest people.
27. Mark Noonan | December 2nd, 2007 at 11:36 pm
js,
Perhaps, but if so then it was only that it was stolen from the thieves. There’s no group of people on earth who can really withstand an intensive title search to their property save, perhaps, the aborginal population of Australia. White man speak with forked tongue - but, then again, so does Red man; your mother’s ancestors were people, js, which means that in the aggregate they were just as likely to screw it up as the most obtuse Puritan coming ashore at Plymouth Rock.
Spending times on comparitive sin is a worthless exercise - it is the basis, of course, of Political Correctness and the various ethnic and gender studies courses in college, but it is none the less a bit of mental masturbation. God, our heavenly Father, forgets our sins once we ask forgiveness for them with a contrite heart - only a human being is dumb enough to carry them around and use them as a club generations later.
If you want to still be outraged over what was done to long dead people you never met by other long dead people you never met, then have at it - but I’ve got better things to do with my time.
28. Tractatus | December 2nd, 2007 at 11:46 pm
he was lucky that his ancestors had to put up with Conquistadores and Puritans.</i?
You should go door-to-door on a reservation and tell everybody this. Really. Videotape it. It’ll be great.
29. js | December 3rd, 2007 at 7:56 am
I guess the truth is beyond your capacity to see Mark.
Maybe if someone had dug up the bones of your great great grandfather and put them on display in some museum, it would make a difference. After all, what do you care, right? He has dead for so long. It would be dumb of you to stand up to protect him, right.
Lip service never rolled bolders Mark, the only thing you have done is (your quote) “mental masturbation”.
30. flash | December 3rd, 2007 at 8:27 am
What I don’t get is that the scientists have studied Kennewick and all the other skeletons (it is required via NAGPRA to determine if the skeleton is “Native American” or not). So, this is really an argument over who gets control of the skeleton after it has been studied (tribes or museums). To get a full account of the Kennewick case and similar ones, and to see how tribes ARE related to the first indigenous peoples of the Americas (physically, culturally, linguistically, etc.) I suggest reading Respect for the Ancestors: American Indian Cultural Affiliation in the American West. Just because today’s Native Americans don’t “look” like those of 10,000 years ago does not mean they are not related.
31. FmrMarine | December 3rd, 2007 at 11:41 am
The 2- 3 million people , I was referring to were in the continental US.
Heck You could include china if you really want to pump up the numbers to show how the terrible white man “stole” their land.
32. Male Zampolit | December 3rd, 2007 at 2:22 pm
LOL your so uneducated and crazy. ha ha ha. your so stupid sir. ha ha ha.
Calling someone uneducated, crazy, and stupid, when you can’t even write? All of your posts contain grade-school errors. Ever learn the difference between “your,” “yore,” and “you’re?”
At least I know what USA means, in your case: Uneducated Stupid Ass. ha ha ha ha ha!!!