37 Comments

• 1. liberalT  |  December 7th, 2007 at 8:06 pm

  wait Mark - but I thought polls didn’t matter. That they only reflected the ignorance of the populace or the bias of the media. Or that “we can’t run government by a popularity contest”.

  Oh - right those are only the polls that disagree with your position. When they agree then they are spectacular proof of your attitude.

  Do you even care how hypocritical that is?

• 2. jayhay  |  December 7th, 2007 at 8:09 pm

  Could you give us a heads up before you act like you believe in polls, since usually you trash them? It’s confusing.

  Oh, and when are you going to adhere to TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 33 Sec. 713 of the U.S. Code that defines the prohibitions on use of the Presidential seal? Though I have heard it’s use is authorized if that usage is clearly perceived as satire, so I think you’re in the clear!

  (security code words: “Hack said”. As in, “Try not to laugh at what the hack said…”

• 3. Faceplant  |  December 7th, 2007 at 8:10 pm

  “I just hope the confirmation doesn’t come in the form of a nuclear test in Iran, or a nuke set off in Tel Aviv.”

  Kind like that Iraqi mushroom cloud? I mean, DOH!

• 4. Casper  |  December 7th, 2007 at 8:50 pm

  “The 18% we can classify as the real hard core of the kook left, just to keep things clear.”

  So does that mean that the 20% that strongly support Bush in the latest Rasmussen Poll can be classified as the real hard core of the kook right?

• 5. Kahn  |  December 7th, 2007 at 8:59 pm

  See, I don’t get it. The 18% that think there are no nukes should SUPPORT Bush for getting rid of them. Right?

• 6. Almiranta  |  December 7th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

  It appears that Mark’s post has brought out the Lemming Left in all its tinfoil-hat glory.

  Let’s see: You Lemmings loved the “intelligence” reports about the dangers in Iraq when your own guys quoted them and postured tough. You hated the same reports when our guys used them to actually back up the tough talk your guys tossed around but never had the backbone to follow up on.

  When reports came out that the materials cited in the original reports had not been found, you jumped on that like a bunch of ducks on June bugs, AS IF failing to find anything is proof it is not, much less never was, there.

  Then you got all tangled up in your hate-based rhetoric, not quite keeping track of “Bush Lied” and “Bush Deceived by Faulty Intel” and various permutations of the two, managing to simply ignore the fact that your own guys used the same intel and came to the same conclusions. (Pesky facts—must ignore.)

  Now you are a little befuddled, yet again. Do you buy into the recent “intel” because it supports your BDS and anti-American agenda, even though that means adopting an attitude of respect for an agency you have loved to call incompetent? Do you stick with the “incompetent” think even though that might mean you can’t gloat over the content?

  Ah, to hell with it. Since when do facts, consistency, or even sanity have anything to do with it? As long as you can pretend something makes conservatives look bad, you are all over it, and when you need something else, or when this position is proved false, well you just act as if it never happened and look for your next factoid and your next attack strategy.

  BTW, you would do yourselves a favor if you could take some time off the BDS Patrol and learn to tame that Rogue Apostrophe. When you’ve got your 1st-grade grammar straight, you can pontificate about presidential seals and other items of great import.

  And Rasmussen is at least a moderately respectable poll, not one of your slanted push polls. Also, it is an opinion poll on a news item, not a popularity contest. When people are asked to say who they like or dislike, those feelings are usually based on an accumulation of media information or disinformation. But this is a simple question about whether or not people believe one simple report.

• 7. Christian Wright  |  December 7th, 2007 at 9:19 pm

  At one time 100% of the people thought the world was flat.

  That does not mean it was, does it?

  Oh, sorry. You beleive in creationism, don’t you?
  You might be a flat-earther too.

• 8. Rana Quijotesca  |  December 7th, 2007 at 9:29 pm

  I love how you think that you know more than 16 Intelligence agencies… Not like they have access to more information than you do or anything…

• 9. Kahn  |  December 7th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

  Christian, when was that exactly? Do you think Columbus was out to prove it wasn’t? Better read up on it.

  Rana - thanks for supporting the administration on this.

• 10. Kahn  |  December 7th, 2007 at 9:42 pm

  Oh, FYI - the French, who actually do business with Iran don’t buy it either. Whats up with that?

• 11. Casper  |  December 7th, 2007 at 9:47 pm

  I hope everybody realizes that the Intelligence community has been reorganized since 9/11 and that the agencies are headed by Bush appointees.
  The NIE is a document sighed off on by all the agencies.

• 12. William Teach  |  December 7th, 2007 at 10:14 pm

  It appears that Mark’s post has brought out the Lemming Left in all its tinfoil-hat glory.

  I believe the proper old English term is “quislings.”

  I gotta ask: why are all you lefties so quick to believe what the best of Iran?

• 13. AgentFear  |  December 7th, 2007 at 11:25 pm

  Let’s see, the deciderer in chieferer has had poor poor Ms. Perino out there doing damage control.

  “Honest! The Preznit is truthful!

  Yep, the whole world believes that one.

  CIA tapes? Honest, the Preznit doesn’t know ANYTHING bout those either.

  Yep, gotta whole lotta believers there too.

  You have to have some sympathy for Ms. Perino. Does she sleep at night? Does she have a conscience? Does she believe lying is a sin? Is SHE lying?

  I have to admit, she’s one cool cucumber. Could you imagine going through a rough divorce with her?

  I have no fear, I believe she will someday pay the piper. Yes, she will, someday.

• 14. Kahn  |  December 7th, 2007 at 11:43 pm

  Agent, why do you think he’s down talking a major victory like this? I mean as I’ve said before, taken with the victories in North Korea and Libya he’s a national freakin’ hero. Should be anyways.

  But even you? You are mad at him for disarming Iran? And what? I don’t get it. He just says we still have concerns. Obviously, since they stopped development he knows what hes doing vis-a-vis Iran. Why not let him handle it?

  He’s already shown success there and elsewhere. Ya know - it used to be that nukes was all the left ever talked about. Back when Reagan was putting Pershings in Europe, you’d march and cry and ring your hands endlessly. Thats not good enough anymore?

• 15. liberalT  |  December 8th, 2007 at 12:16 am

  Victory in North Korea - you mean that they had only a partial success in their nuclear weapons test. Bush has only increased the chances of countries developing nuclear weapons. give me a break

• 16. Kahn  |  December 8th, 2007 at 1:07 am

  libT - Nope, a “partial success” is a failure. AND, they’re dismantling. Did you miss that in the news? Oh well, I guess KOS didn’t talk about it much.

  Though admittedly, it was a tough nut to crack. I mean after Clinton gave them Nuke technology and all.

  You are really in denial. In 50 years, this presidency will be viewed as a success. Recovered the economy after 9/11. Destroyed an evil influence in the mid-east. And stopped three hostile countries from getting atomic weapons.

  The rest is details and footnotes.

• 17. liberalT  |  December 8th, 2007 at 1:16 am

  no - they were able to have a small nuclear explosion.
  funny - 25% of Americans think this president is the worst in history now. I doubt that will change. Bush didn’t do anything and there is no evidence that they have dismantled there nuclear program .

• 18. Kahn  |  December 8th, 2007 at 1:44 am

  A successful bomb? OK - whatever. Some say they did and some say they didn’t. But I’ll go ahead and agree with you. That makes the accomplishment even greater!

  Bush didn’t do anything? OK - just flat out lying now. Thats what it comes to eh?

  So - I had you stymied with the Iran thing. So now you deny North Korea?

  North Korea Agrees to Disable Nuclear Complex by Year’s End

  audioRealAudioDownload videoStreaming Video

  http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/july-dec07/northkorea_10-03.html

  North Korea agrees to dismantle nuclear plant

  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/03/wkorea203.xml

  N Korea agrees nuclear deadline

  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7025930.stm

  North Korea agrees to dismantle N-weapons

  http://dawn.com/2007/07/04/int1.htm

  US North Korea envoy in Tokyo talks

  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/koreas_nuclear

  North Korea agrees to dismantle nuclear plant

  http://www.nuclearno.com/text.asp?12210

• 19. Kahn  |  December 8th, 2007 at 1:44 am

  Is it because it has links?

• 20. William Teach  |  December 8th, 2007 at 8:32 am

  So let me get this all straight: when we went in to Iraq, the EU started having negotiations with Iran to give up their nuclear weapons program, and the left said Bush should get involved and take a lead role and “do something,” because Iran is dangerous. So, eventually Bush gets the US involved, then the lefties go ape because Bush got the US involved. And now they are feeling vindicated because Bush never should have gotten involved.

  It seems that the part where the EU, essentially France and England, along with the IEAE, were the original leaders in saying that Iran was looking to develop nuclear weapons has disappeared from any discussion. Liberals are apparently so invested in BDS that they prefer Iran to win over their own country.

• 21. Hates Cows--Male  |  December 8th, 2007 at 8:49 am

  So does that mean that the 20% that strongly support Bush in the latest Rasmussen Poll can be classified as the real hard core of the kook right?

  Well, Casspurr, we all know that you’re not included in that 20%, being that you’re no more than a waffling puss. Have you changed parties yet, kook?

  Bush didn’t do anything and there is no evidence that they have dismantled there nuclear program .

  Doesn’t mommy have a dictionary in her basement, libretardTHC? There, their, and they’re all sound the same, but they have different meanings and uses. Moron. And btw, Bush did more than you dickweeds give him credit for–the active war on terror has brought NK and Libya to their knees, and now Iran has allegedly covertly suspended its covert nuke weapons program, a program they had no internationl rights to conduct.

  I hope everybody realizes that the Intelligence community has been reorganized since 9/11 and that the agencies are headed by Bush appointees.
  The NIE is a document sighed off on by all the agencies.

  I hope everybody realizes that Casspurr is a teacher, and that he can’t write any better than his students. He must teach fifth grade, because he’s definitely not smarter than a fifth grader. Or maybe he’s not mistaken, and this particular NIE report was “sighed off on.”

  Btw, Casspur, the beaurocrats who wrote this particular NIE are NOT Bush appointees, as are not any of the career beaurocrats in many of these agencies, especially the State Dept and the CIA. But go on, teach, and keep feeding your crap to those poor youngsters. Just don’t let them read your posts, because then you’ll have no business grading their writing. Moron.

• 22. AAR  |  December 8th, 2007 at 9:17 am

  Christian Wright,

  At one time 100% of the people thought the world was flat.

  At one time 100% of the people would tell you that commercial airliners filled with passengers were not used as flying missiles to destroy buildings and kill people!

  AAR

• 23. liberalT  |  December 8th, 2007 at 9:36 am

  its nice to see that we are back to correcting grammar and throwing random insults rather than arguing substantive points. Dare I say that its the only thing you can do? We never got an answer to our fundamental question. Every time someone posts a poll which disagrees with your position you tell us:
  (1) the people involved the polls are misinformed
  (2) the people involved are biased by the media
  (3) it doesn’t matter anyway because “we can’t run a country on polls”
  etc..
  However, when there is a poll which you like the results it is suddenly some deep and important result. Are any of you strong enough to address this or are you just going to hurdle random insults again

• 24. AAR  |  December 8th, 2007 at 9:40 am

  liberalT

  funny - 25% of Americans think this president is the worst in history now.

  Nov 20: “The president, whose approval stood at 32 percent in the latest Gallup Poll – in a survey of Americans taken Nov. 11-14 – stands only marginally higher than Congress in this regard. The public’s approval for Congress stood at just 20 percent in that survey.

  “…one target in Washington held in even lower regard. Congressional approval stands at 20 percent in the latest Gallup Poll.”

  But the we still have those polls which find that 11% approve of the DO NOTHING DEMOCRAT Congress — the worst in history!

  Sep 2007: “…a paltry 11 percent rated Congress positively, beating the previous low of 14 percent in July.”

  AAR

• 25. AAR  |  December 8th, 2007 at 9:48 am

  Casper,

  …the agencies are headed by Bush appointees…

  According to one report I heard, the senior persons involved in writing the positive report about Iran are opposed to President Bush! They would have their own secret and subtle agenda!

  The report could just as easily have been worded the other way!!!

  AAR

• 26. liberalT  |  December 8th, 2007 at 10:13 am

  true enough AAR people are horribly disappointed with congress. However, they are just as unhappy with republicans in congress as they are with democrats:
  http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_dem.htm
  –
  http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm

• 27. Casper  |  December 8th, 2007 at 10:56 am

  Hates Cows–Male, and AAR,

  From Wikipedia;

  “National Intelligence Estimates (NIEs) are United States federal government documents that are the authoritative assessment of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) on intelligence related to a “particular national security issue. NIEs are produced by the National Intelligence Council and express the coordinated judgments of the United States Intelligence Community, the group of 16 U.S. intelligence agencies. NIEs are classified documents prepared for policymakers.”

  I never said that the NIE was written by Bush appointees. What I said was it was signed off on by the heads of the various agencies, who are Bush appointees. It is a consensus document. If it was written by people who oppose Bush for the purpose of embarrassing Bush, why would his appointees sign off on it?

  “Well, Casspurr, we all know that you’re not included in that 20%, being that you’re no more than a waffling puss. Have you changed parties yet, kook?”

  If by waffling puss, you mean that I don’t worship either Bush or Clinton, l will take that as a compliment. As far as changing parties, I am now an Independent.
  BTW, I purposely make mistakes on my writing in the classroom, then reward the students that find and correct them. I find they pay a lot more attention to what I’m writing by doing that. Since I know how much joy you get in finding my mistakes, I will continue to make them from time to time. You can thank me later.

• 28. SEW  |  December 8th, 2007 at 12:13 pm

  Thank you Dubya for disarming North Korea, Iraq and now Iran. The Kooks are having a difficult time spinning this one.

• 29. Ricorun  |  December 8th, 2007 at 1:49 pm

  Almiranta: But this is a simple question about whether or not people believe one simple report.

  Correct me if I’m wrong, but Rasmussen didn’t poll people to find out how many of them were actually aware of the NIE report, never mind read the damned thing or whether they changed their mind on the basis of it. In fact, it would be rather interesting to know how many people HERE have (a) actually read the damned thing, and (b) did so before they started pontificating on it. By the way, if you’re interested, it’s posted on the front page of www.dni.gov.

  Getting back to the question of whether anyone is likely to dramatically change their mind on the basis of it… I doubt it. After all, it’s not a panacea for the black and white thinkers (what I like to call the “snow drift” thinkers) on either side. I mean right off the top the report states: “A. We judge with high confidence that in fall 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program; we also assess with moderate-to-high confidence that Tehran at a minimum is keeping open the option to develop nuclear weapons.” So, they are saying the same thing as the 2005 assessment did: they judge with high confidence that Iran does have a nuclear program (something they have steadfastly denied) but they have “halted” it for the time being. But they HAVE NOT dismantled it. The 2005 report also estimated that they were unlikely to be able to produce a bomb before the end of the decade. This current report says the same thing. This new report does push back the most likely time line a bit. But even so, that doesn’t change anything for me. Perhaps the only thing I found more encouraging about the present report relative to the 2005 report is this: “We judge with high confidence that the halt, and Tehran’s announcement of its decision to suspend its declared uranium enrichment program and sign an Additional Protocol to its Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Safeguards Agreement, was directed primarily in response to increasing international scrutiny and pressure resulting from exposure of Iran’s previously undeclared nuclear work.” In other words, there are strong indications that “pressure”, in the form of diplomacy, sanctions — and yes Kahn, a whole bunch of warships floating aroung in the Gulf — works. That’s not exactly a surprise perhaps — it is, after all, the same kind of thing that has worked in the past with South Africa, Libya, North Korea (both in 1994 and now), and even Iraq — but it is reassuring. It is not, however, a panacea.

  Almiranta is right that: at least insofar as the people here are concerned, it is indeed interesting to listen to people’s reactions to the poll and compare those responses to what they had to say about other polls. It’s pretty clear that many people are willing to take any piece of evidence and find a way to fit it into their preconceived notions without even attempting to critically evaluate them.

• 30. coulterfan  |  December 8th, 2007 at 4:00 pm

  You guys are insane! This reminds me of when your blog said that Democrats were “out of step” with the American people since MOST Americans believe in Creationism. I suggested at the time that it would be a lot easier to just put all scientific hypotheses up for vote! Clearly, most Americans don’t think that mass increases as time slows as objects speed up, so Einstein’s Theory of Relativity is false. Likewise, most Americans don’t believe that a particle can exist in two places at once, so Quantum Mechanics also can’t be true! Furthermore, the VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS believe that Bush is one of the worst presidents ever! Well, okay. . . they may be right on THAT one ; )

  But, wait! What information does 82% of the American people have upon which to base their knowledge of Iranian nukes? I was not aware that most Americans are expert on the subject. Should every country run their foreign policy based upon what their citizens ‘know’? What percentage of the middle eastern citizens have a negative impression of the US? According to a Zogby poll, 80% think that the US is out to take over the entire middle east! Furthermore, Bush’s policies have not helped how Europeans view us- more Europeans think that the US is a danger to the world than Iran!

  I know that Republicans have a dislike of facts and science, but I think it’s dangerous to base foreign policy on opinion polls. As much of a disconnect as it is for you (after being fed Neocon propaganda for years), there is a REAL likelyhood that 16 Intelligence Agencies which wrote this report have evidence for the conclusion. Moreover, Bush and Cheney have known about this for months and EVEN THEY aren’t questioning the conclusions!

  But, I notice a pattern where you cite polls that you agree with (even when they are as absurd as this poll and the Creationism poll!) but discount every poll you DON’T AGREE WITH! FWIW, I recently did a ‘poll’ amongst my 8 REPUBLICAN friends and ALL OF THEM would vote for Bill Clinton over GW Bush in a HEARTBEAT! Oh yeah, 5 of these REPUBLICANS are thinking about voting for the Democratic nominee in 2008!

  So, keep up with the wingnut insanity! There has not been ANYTHING better for the Democratic party than GW Bush and his inept incompetence!

• 31. Kahn  |  December 8th, 2007 at 9:11 pm

  LibT - well maybe people would like Bush better if they understood that he (as you argue) removed a tyrant in the middle east and as a result three nations stopped their nuclear weapons programs. That he actually used three different techniques blending threats, intelligence, and promises. That he worked with coalitions of other nations. In one case, the coalition included Russia and China!!!!!

  You libs really can’t see that? How brainwashed are you?

• 32. Ricorun  |  December 8th, 2007 at 9:30 pm

  Kahn: That he actually used three different techniques blending threats, intelligence, and promises. That he worked with coalitions of other nations. In one case, the coalition included Russia and China!!!!!

  Well, at least you’re beginning to recognize (or at least voice) some level of nuance. So the next quesion is… were these coalitions organized because of Bush or in spite of him? I suspect that if you really look into each question, both individually and collectively, your answer is likely to be… it depends. It depends on the issue and its history, on how that issue impacts others, on the time-frame of which you speak, and the other players involved, both then and now.

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• 35. phnx  |  December 9th, 2007 at 3:55 pm

  Funny how France and Germany are still calling Iran a threat. But the leftist trolls seem to think that they aren’t. And they want to run the country?

• 36. Casper  |  December 9th, 2007 at 4:33 pm

  phnx,
  “Funny how France and Germany are still calling Iran a threat.”

  Funny how things change. As I remember it, a lot of Americans were pretty mad at the French and the Germans for not joining us in our invasion of Iraq.

  That said, who on this thread stated that Iran is no longer a threat? If you read the NIE, you will find that our Intelligence Agencies still consider Iran a threat. And it is. It’s just not a nuclear threat at this time.

• 37. Tractatus  |  December 10th, 2007 at 8:07 pm

  I love how you think that you know more than 16 Intelligence agencies… Not like they have access to more information than you do or anything…

  It’s not just that, it’s that the Hardly Boys of the wingnutosphere have used their raging clues to uncover the massive conspiracy that all 16 agencies are engaged in. It’s all a conspiracy to make Bush look bad! Yeah, that’s it!

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