Huckabee’s Pardon Issue
December 12th, 2007 at 06:53am Mark Noonan
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. (Matt 5:7)
If there is anything which can sink Huckabee’s chances as fast as they have risen, it is the issue of his pardons as governor of Arkansas. On its face, it looks pretty bad - a series of pardons based on rather weak reasoning, and the one very infamous one where the pardoned rapist went on to murder. The full facts have yet to come out, and perhaps the full airing of the issue will clear it up - more likely, however, is that this will be sound-bited to death and the real facts will never reach the broader American audience.
Governor Huckabee is a Christian - and thus the impulse to pardon is strong in him. But mercy comes in varied forms, and it is not, perhaps, actually merciful to pardon a murderer, or a rapist. It is my view that once a person has deliberately taken the life of an innocent person, or has raped another person, that person has forfeited forever his right to be part of our society. We can be merciful to such men by not executing them; by giving them a light prison regime once they’ve shown long term good behaviour - but to let them loose actually puts them at risk of doing it again, and doing worse. Governor Huckabee saw it differently, though it may be that he didn’t think the matter through all the way.
A pardon, in my view, is for someone who had mitigating circumstances which warrant a reduction in sentence - there can be no mitigating circumstances in deliberately murdering an innocent person, or raping another person. Such acts are always and everywhere entirely un-necessary, and should then be outside of the realm of pardons. This, of course, is just my view - but it does instruct me about how to view Governor Huckabee’s actions.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Republicans
42 Comments
1. Diana Powe | December 12th, 2007 at 7:14 am
Mark,
I commend you on your balanced comments about Governor Huckabee. I think at least part of the problem is that it is unclear as to whether the release of Wayne Dumond can properly be considered his action or the action of the Arkansas Parole Board given that Dumond was released on parole. Two parole board members apparently are saying they were pressured by the Governor to make a decision to parole Dumond and, if so, the relevant question is why he felt Dumond should be released given that the original sentence he was given was life plus 20 years. That brings up an even more puzzling aspect in that when Huckabee took office, Dumond’s sentence had been reduced to 39 1/2 years by his predecessor, Governor Tucker, which is why he was even eligible for parole at all. Why was his sentence reduced by Governor Tucker?
2. Repulicans Presidential E&hellip | December 12th, 2007 at 8:23 am
[…] Mark Noonan added an interesting post today on Huckabee’s Pardon IssueHere’s a small reading […]
3. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 8:26 am
All he has to do is place his pardons in a side by side chart next to Bubba’s. Bubba will look like the Mafia king, Huck like a Christian. Of course the lefties prefer Chavez, the Mafia, Olberman and other degenerates.
4. Bigfoot | December 12th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Dumond’s sentence had been reduced to 39 1/2 years by his predecessor, Governor Tucker, which is why he was even eligible for parole at all. Why was his sentence reduced by Governor Tucker?
Another aspect of this is that Tucker was Lieutenant Governor when he reduced Dumond’s sentence, acting as Governor during Governor Bill Clinton’s absence. This would mean that Clinton would have some responsibility, as well. It looks like three consecutive Arkansas Governors may have some explaining to do.
5. Joe | December 12th, 2007 at 9:23 am
OF COURSE it is all Clinton’s fault.
Still reading and learning a lot about Huck, so I’m not going to comment.
I just thought it was funny that 2 of the comments so far are either blaming this on Clinton or saying Clinton did worse.
6. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Funny? Try disgusting.
7. Diana Powe | December 12th, 2007 at 9:59 am
Joe,
You just don’t get it, do you? As I understand it, there’s a little known part of the Republican Catechism, right after “Thou shalt always believe anything a Republican government official says so long as they assure you it is for your protection” that reads “Until the year 2200, President Bill Clinton will always be the most evilest guy around and everything we don’t approve of is his own personal fault!” You’ve got to pay attention here.
8. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 10:32 am
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm
Joe, Diana. Pay attention now.
9. Diana Powe | December 12th, 2007 at 10:54 am
See, Joe! SEW has been studying the Republican Catechism.
10. Joe | December 12th, 2007 at 10:58 am
SEW, are you saying that you are ok with whatever any Republican does or did because it isn’t as bad as what Clinton did?
You people say how Clinton pardoned bad people. So if Huck also pardons bad people, that is ok as long as they aren’t AS bad as Clinton’s list? Do I have this correct?
11. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 11:06 am
No, you have it wrong. I don’t support Huck. I stated compare, you decide. But how can you throw stones at Huck and not the “experienced” Hillary/Bubba coPresidents?
The same as the liberal outrage over alleged rape by Halliburton employees! Close the evil Halliburton and lynch/imprison Bush/Cheney posted by hundreds of liberal.
A Muslim father in Canada kills his beautiful 16 year old daughter for not wearing her Habib. ZERO liberal outrage.
A woman hunter in Minnesota kills an albino deer and hundreds of liberal posters want her shot or imprisoned!
You folks have a major disconnect.
12. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 11:24 am
I would think that Huckabee would love for Billary to make an issue of his pardons. Or maybe he kissed someone in the 1st grade.
Make his day, make both an issue. Political suicide.
13. Joe | December 12th, 2007 at 11:27 am
SEW, are you feeling alright?
A Muslim father in Canada kills his beautiful 16 year old daughter for not wearing her Habib. ZERO liberal outrage.
A woman hunter in Minnesota kills an albino deer and hundreds of liberal posters want her shot or imprisoned!
What the hell are you talking about? What gives you the right to guess what the F#$#@ I get outraged over or not?
I could make an outrageous claim about Republicans as well.
14. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Sorry to hit a nerve Joe. Just stating the facts, maam. Draw your own conclusions, delusions in your case.
15. TiredofLibBullShit | December 12th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
I noticed on the PARDON list - several business partners, Marc Rich and a Clinton cabinet member………where was the liberal outrage? ………crickets…………..
But COMMUTE Scooter Libby’s sentence (and not erase his conviction) and the libs meltdown.
You are right SEW there is a major disconnect.
16. Casper | December 12th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
SEW,
How many red herrings are you going to throw out today? Trying to set a record?
Back to the topic. I think in the short run Huckabee’s pardons probably won’t hurt him that much. If he gets the GOP nomination, the Democrats will have a field day.
17. Diana Powe | December 12th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
TiredofLibBullShit,
As Don Meredith used to love to say on Monday Night Football, “It ain’t over ’til the fat lady sings.” In this case, the fat lady doesn’t sing until January 20th, 2009. My money’s on there being a pardon just waiting to be signed for Irving Lewis “Scooter” Libby and I’ll be most pleasantly astonished if I’m wrong.
Casper,
I tend to believe you’re correct about the primaries, but I’m not so sure about the general election if he were the candidate. It might turn on how many of his former staff members decided to produce documents.
18. sleepygene | December 12th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Bigfoot-
I think then Govenor Clinton recused himself from the Dumond matter because the Dumond’s first victim was a distant cousin of Bill’s. So he had no connection to the reduction of the sentence intially from life pkus 20 to 39 1/2 years. What is interesting is that Mitt is touting that during his tenure as gov of MA he pardonned zero people while according to Mitt, Huck pardoned over a thousand.
19. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm
Casper, I looked again. Which Mafia style pardon listed is a red herring? Thanks. From the DOJ, appointed by Slick.
20. NeoClown | December 12th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
If this guy rapped Clinton?s cousen he should have been let go out of the pokey. What say lets dig him up and pen a medal on his chest for good mesure.
21. Ricorun | December 12th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
ToLBS (and others on the conservative side): how do you guys feel about Clinton’s pardons? How do you feel about Libby’s commutation? Do you favor one and not the other? Would you admit to any disconnect in the other direction?
I admit that I am not well-informed on the subject, but I’ve never understood this pardon crap. Okay, if pardons are limited to people that have already served their time and have subsequently established themselves as law-abiding citizens, perhaps it makes certain sense to relieve them of the onus of their conviction. But idea that governors or the president have the power to inject themselves in the judicial process to grant clemency or commute sentences strikes me as an aberration of justice. Too often becomes a question of who your friends are, and there is an inherent inequality in that.
22. Mark Noonan | December 12th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Ricorun,
I don’t even view it like that - to me, a pardon (which is the complete relief of any sanctions for an illegal act) should only happen when there is something in the facts of the case which mitigates the act or if the criminal subsequently does something extraordinarily self-sacrificing.
A commutation is something (in my view, once again) which allows the Executive to mitigate a sentence which might have been too harsh - judges and juries can get carried away by the passions of the moment, right?
My problem with Huckabee is that he does not seem to have thought carefully about the cases he pardoned - he applied his Christian sense of mercy, but he didn’t apply is Christian sense of caution in dealing with those who have sinned seriously.
23. Casper | December 12th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
SEW,
A red herring is a metaphor for a diversion or distraction from an original objective. Since the subject is Huckabee’s Pardon Issue, just about everything you brought up is a red herring.
BTW, I don’t like Clinton and I hate the pardons he did. It’s just not relevant to this thread.
Now if you want to talk about how Huckabee’s pardons affect his chances, then you are ok.
24. SteaM | December 12th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Mark,
You’re right though. This issue, whether we have only part of the story or not, might be the nail in the coffin for him.
Look at Howard Dean’s “yell” situation. He got hyped and energetic at a rally (which is what’s supposed to happen at a rally) and his soundbyte scream was used to kill his campaign. Stupider things have happend I suppose.
25. SteaM | December 12th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
” I don’t like Clinton and I hate the pardons he did. It’s just not relevant to this thread.”
Upon review, I might not like them either. Of course at the time I was really too young to look into these things.
I did, however, vote for Ross Perot, not Bill Clinton.
26. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Casper, The original issue is “Huckabee’s pardon issue”. Thus a comparison of pardons is not a red herring but is on topic. It is not a diversion from the original objective. If Billary wants to make Huck’s pardons an issue, Bill comes in to play.
If Hillarycare is an issue, by your reasoning healthcare proposals by the Republicans are red herring and off topic? If her tax the rich is an issue, the Republican’s cut taxes is a red herring and off topic?
27. js | December 12th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
pre-disposing a life sentence away from society means you believe people cannot, or will not, change
that, in itself, undermines Christian emphasis of confession, repentance, and conversion, or, rebirth to the spirit
to say that a person who murdered another will never change is ruthless
28. Diana Powe | December 12th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Not to veer off-topic too much (so I’ll add something about Huckabee), but, js, given your expressed sentiment about “confession, repentance, and conversion” would that not be an argument for abolishing the death penalty as execution automatically prevents any possibility of repentance at some later date if the person was alive in prison?
Part of the ding to Huckabee in this is the appearance, if not the substance, that he hasn’t been truthful about the letters he received from women who were raped by Wayne Dumond.
Also, Mark, anything to say relative to the loathsome comment by NeoClown here and you’re oft-cited opinion that “leftys” are uniquely hate-filled?
29. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
My guess NeoClown is a lefty pretending to be a hatefilled righty. His poor grammar is the big clue. Happens all the time. We certainly don’t claim him.
30. Ricorun | December 12th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Mark: A commutation is something (in my view, once again) which allows the Executive to mitigate a sentence which might have been too harsh - judges and juries can get carried away by the passions of the moment, right?
And an executive can’t get carried away? Though they aren’t perfect, judges and juries represent a deliberative process. The whims of an executive aren’t. And who gets to be considered for such an executive decision? Wouldn’t you say that likelihood often depends on who you know? In a court system juries are vetted in part to determine whether they have any associations with the accused. Likewise, judges recuse themselves for the same reason. At least that’s the assumption. But in the case of executive “pardons” (or other variations on the theme) no such degree of separation exists. And to my mind, there should be. Because to the extent that that is not the case, it is inherently unfair.
31. plainjane | December 12th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Fact Huck made a rare apperance at the parole board to ask for Dumond’s parole based on political pressure he was receiving. Pressure because Republicans believed Dumond received harsh treatment because Ashley Stevens, rape victim, was distatn relative of Clinton.
America just as in the Willy Horton case will decide if Huckster is soft on crime, bends easily to political pressure and has blood on his hands for the death of Carroll Ann Stevens. 1/20/09
32. Mark Noonan | December 12th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
js,
Not at all - a truly repentant person would gratefully accept his life sentence and thank the society which gave him the opportunity for repentance, and the protection against the possibility of doing it again.
33. Casper | December 12th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
SEW,
Tell me how the items you brought up in #11 aren’t red herrings.
Rico,
I agree with you on the pardons, this is one area our founding fathers were wrong.
34. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Casper,
Show me how your post #33 is not a red herring, that is related to the topic of Huckabee’s pardon issue per your definition of red herring. Rant, then proceed to do what you ranted about. Disconnect.
My examples were in a dialogue demonstrating liberals inability to connect the dots with respect to comparing Huckabees pardons next to Willie’s pardons. Just can’t do it.
35. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Casper,
A new report about Billary’s campaign attacking Obama’s drug use. Guess what? Most of the comments concern Slick not inhaling or his pardons of drug dealers. Red Herrings?
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/12/12/post_235.html
Go ahead, connect the dots.
36. NeoClown | December 12th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Where yall fishin for them red herrings? Is they good eating. I caint help my grammer cause back when I went to skoo they wernt no chile left behind or nuthiun else. God bles Presdint Busk and Guverner Huckelberry.
37. SEW | December 12th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Correct. A lefty troll.
38. Diana Powe | December 12th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
SEW,
In this, I’ve got to AGREE with you. What a loser.
39. Casper | December 12th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
SEW,
Wow, something we can all agree on. Neoclown’s is a loser. His mom must be so proud.
40. NeoClown | December 12th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Ya’ll done went an hurt my feelbads.
41. keef--Not Cruisin--Yet!!! | December 13th, 2007 at 5:45 am
Of course the lefties prefer Chavez, the Mafia, Olberman and other degenerates.
And, SEW, they all want to “Free Mumia,” so any Donkaroach criticism of Huckabee here is irrelevant…
42. keef--Not Cruisin--Yet!!! | December 13th, 2007 at 5:51 am
ToLBS (and others on the conservative side): how do you guys feel about Clinton’s pardons?
Rico, IMHO, it’s a Presidents’ prerogative to pardon whomever he pleases, but it’s always gonna be political fodder for the other side. As for Libby’s commutation? I hear he’s dropping his appeal. If so, I await his pardon by the President. And guess what? When it happens, the left will be livid, and we will remind them, once again, that Clinton pardoned some real criminals.
Diana, that’s politics. And when it comes to Slicky Blue Dress, we’re gonna continue to go after this sleazeball, until he reaches room temperature. Even longer. That’s the breaks, when your legacy consists of a stained blue dress and a damp cigar…