The Most Concise Statement of Why Bush Haters Are, Well, Dumb
January 18th, 2008 at 02:00pm Mark Noonan
From Frank J over at IMAO:
I saw a brief bit of a Frank Luntz focus group for the last Democratic debate, and man was that a gaggle of morons. They were all going on and on about how Bush cares for nothing except making his rich oil friends richer. Do they understand they’re basically saying President Bush is a friend of monumental proportions? Basically they think that George W. Bush made the huge financial, mental, and physical expenditure to run for president, be president for eight years, and start a war to gain the hatred for the entire world all so he can make his rich friends slightly richer. And I thought I had a good friend if he’d drive me to the airport.
There are reasonable things to criticise President Bush over - but his most strenuous critics have, after nearly 7 years of Bush’s Presidency, yet to hit upon one of them. One thing I’ll do to entertain myself on January 21st, 2009 is write a list of the real criticisms the left could have made, and how monumentally stupid they were not to take up these issues. At any rate, Frank’s short hand of the focus group is right on - the critics really do sound like a pack of idiots. To even, for a moment, think that even the slightest part of Bush’s motivation is to make his already rich friends richer betrays a level of mental incapacity which should result in a revocation of voting rights. We often joke that we should have an IQ test for voting, but what all we need do is put out a sign in front of a bogus voting machine saying “Diebold-free voting” and we’ll elminate 90% of leftwing votes.
The most difficult task we conservatives face in the battle for victory this year is the mental density of our opponents - it just gets tiresome to have to continually restate the obvious for them, as they keep asking the same stupid questions, and keep making the same divorced-from-reality observations. It wears you down after a while, but we have to keep at it, as the fate of the nation is at stake.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats, Kook Left, Republicans
178 Comments
1. The Most Concise Statemen&hellip | January 18th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
[...] The Most Concise Statement of Why Bush Haters Are, Well, Dumb From Frank J over at IMAO: I saw a brief bit of a Frank Luntz focus group for the last Democratic debate, and man was that a gaggle of morons. They were all going on and on about how Bush cares for nothing except making his rich oil … [...]
2. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
How patronizingly…shall we say…how hatefully writes Mark. It’s not enough that he disagrees with anyone. Oh, no. The devout Roman Catholic, who occasionally shares his humbling need for God’s grace, must characterize them as “idiots” who are “mentally dense”, suffer from a “mental incapacity which should result in a revocation of voting rights”. How readily one can imagine the King of King and Lord of Lords, Jesus of Nazareth, using language this way.
However, not to worry, he and his noble suffering band will soldier on for “the fate of the nation” because they must.
Please.
3. Joe | January 18th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Mark,
I do have to say. I enjoy this site and usually I do enjoy reading your posts. I don’t usually agree with you, but I still enjoy reading them.
But this is not like you. I’m surprised. Glad you think that 50% of the country are idiots. That is really a foolish way to go thru life. Other than a handful of Repubs, I don’t think they are idiots at all.
Keep up the fight.
4. dickdee | January 18th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Thanks for an additional example to the Luntz group diana. Knew we could count on you!! Beyond BDS, you have a bit of religious bigotry besides…thanks for sharing. I bet you didn’t see the school marm legislator from Ohio berate and chastise the Fed Chairman to the best of her ability, until it was related to her that what she attributed to him was another person!! ha ha And she says lamely..’glad we got that cleared up for the record’!! So, the record now says…ignorant demorat congresswoman gets egg on face after severe rant, all the while looking ugly and condemning capitalism. Now that the anti-war groups have backed off, whats your next talking point diana? You are sooooo 2007.
5. Kahn | January 18th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Diana, Diana, Diana. It is not hateful to point out that someone is an idiot if they in fact are. We see it here all the time.
Most liberal posters can’t think for themselves and don’t know much about anything.
Now, paste a reply.
6. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
dickdee,
My example was primarily quoting Mark. So, that makes for an odd bit of reasoning. Also, what religious bigotry? I am saved because of the atoning work of Jesus of Nazareth on the Cross. So, my contrasting Mark’s language with what I know of Jesus’ language from the Gospels is “bigotry”? Interesting notion, that…
In fact, it was just yesterday that Retired Spook described the incivility that appears in comments here sometimes and opined that more than half of that came from those on the right. He was asking for an effort to move forward on accentuating positive joint goals. Today, we get “dumb”, “stupid” and “mentally dense”. No wonder Mark didn’t say anything about Retired Spooks comment.
Kahn,
Thank you for the hatelet. Next time why don’t you just use the time-tested formula, “I know you are, but what am I?” Seven-year-olds everywhere will applaud.
7. Kahn | January 18th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Well Diana, I grew up in Western Mass with sisters who went to U-Mass Amherst, Smith, Boston College, and Harvard. They learned little about the real world. Though I must admit that Smiths militant lesbianism and anti-Columbus Day rallies are pretty entertaining.
Only now, years later have they started to get it. The Smith/Harvard grad understands and supports the 2nd Amendment. The U-Mass grad became conservative when she had a family and turned to religion after discovering how empty the alternative can be.
Again and again in this blog we have to educate liberals. As here, for example. We get distorted “facts”, hate speech, and catchy position chants in return. And well, thats about all.
How did a liberal co-worker ut it? Oh yah - “You and your facts! I don’t care about your facts!” - She’s a Berkley liberal. One of the worst kinds.
8. Jeremiah | January 18th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
It’s just the truth, Diana!!
You peoples heads are harder than anvils.
~ Jeremiah
9. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Kahn,
So, that all meant what? Okay, if you want, I see your sisters and raise you three brothers:
1 - 1961 graduate of Texas A&M Universtiy - career Army officer - two tours in Vietnam - at work in Pentagon as Director of Office of African Affairs within the Office of the Secretary of Defense on 09/11/01 - retired at rank of colonel - Democrat
2 - 1967 graduate of University of Dallas (Catholic university) - enlisted and served tour in Vietnam - Democrat
3 - 1971 Distinguished Military Graduate of Texas A&M Universtiy - served 6 years as an Army infantry officer - separated at rank of captain - Democrat
Relevance?
Jeremiah,
So, you believe Jesus of Nazareth would call people “dumb”, “stupid” and “mentally dense”? Interesting. I didn’t know he was a Republican.
10. Sunny | January 18th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Basically they think that George W. Bush made the huge financial, mental, and physical expenditure to run for president, . . .
Excuse me, he made a huge financial expenditure? I do not recall that the Bush family put huge amounts of money into either of his runs for the WH. As to mental and physical expenditures - pleazzze! What a joke. Especially the mental - he has had someone writing his material since he ran for governor. He cannot speak without a script. He certainly has not lost brain cells for deep thinking. And as for the physical - well, no one makes him ride his bicycle all over the place. However, being president for the past 7 plus years has greatly deterred the cutting of brush at the “ranch”, but that is about it.
I believe that Dick Cheney has done more to advance his friends wealth (and his own) during Bush’s presidency than Bush has. Cheney has worked behind the scenes - after appointing himself as the vice president - doing his slimy work. I don’t think Bush is smart enough to even know to what extent Cheney has operated.
Do I hate Bush? No, but I have no respect for the man. He is an intellectual midget. No intellectual curiosity at all to do the necessary home work before invading a country. Arrogant to a fault when he has nothing to be arrogant about. He is shallow, amazingly inarticulate, and has put his own personal relationships (loyality?) ahead of what was best for this country. He has been the worst president in my life time and I will be so very thankful when he can return to his little ranch and cut brush to his hearts content. At least he will not be putting our country into any more harm.
11. Rathaven | January 18th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
… and this year’s recipient of the Hillary R. Clinton ~ Expertise is Familial Not Acquired Award is Diana Powe .
One of my brothers is a drunk; I guess that makes me an expert on Scottish History.
12. Retired Spook | January 18th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
<i?Today, we get “dumb”, “stupid” and “mentally dense”. No wonder Mark didn’t say anything about Retired Spooks comment.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, Diana, but just how would you characterize a group of adults who said, “Bush cares for nothing except making his rich oil friends richer?”
Sometime you just have to call a spade a spade.
13. SEW | January 18th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
I can certainly understand why Dian [sic] and Sunny are sensitive about Mark’s post. And I must admit their names appeared in my mind as I was reading the post.
Rathaven, spending 8 years in the White House also qualifies Hillary, Chelsea and the chef for experience to be POTUS. And a surgeon’s wife to perform surgery.
14. Jeremiah | January 18th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
So, you believe Jesus of Nazareth would call people “dumb”, “stupid” and “mentally dense”? Interesting. I didn’t know he was a Republican.
No! When He got upset with somebody who wouldn’t listen, he called them a fool. He didn’t have to reinvent all this new terminology you Liberals are coming out with. He calls it what it is.
Just like Psalm 14:1 - The fool hath said in his heart, “there is no God.”
Just tool the time to instruct people about how to walk a pure and clean life, for those who would listen.
But, the Liberals and ACLU are slowly but surely eroding the Foundation of our Christian heritage. What happens next if people don’t wake up, will probably be similar to 1099!!!!!!!
~ Jeremiah
15. keefer | January 18th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
I don’t think 50% of all Americans are idiots, Mark–just the 15 percenters with BDS, including every troll on this site.
Sorry, Spook, I can’t…
16. Jeff Albertson | January 18th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
There are plenty of things the Bush Administration should have to answer for; to the conservatives. Liberals understand this president’s failures and need no explaination, Bush is a true believer; he also happens to be wrong.
What I don’t see here is anyone arguing the Administration’ failures from the Liberal POV. Don’t confuse the galactically stupid seated in little rows vying for face-time on a Frank Luntz show-and-tell (or the Kool-Aid drinking BDS-ers like Sunny) with the objections we Liberals have with Bush and the direction he’s taken this country.
17. Ricorun | January 18th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
And I thought I had a good friend if he’d drive me to the airport.
Oh please. That’s a friend. A GOOD friend is one that helps you move. LOL!
18. Jeff Albertson | January 18th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail…but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, “Damn…that was fun!”
19. keefer | January 18th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Jeff, I have objections with the direction your lib idols will take this country. You want socialism? Move to Old Europe…
20. Kahn | January 18th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Diana, well I’m sorry. I don’t know how to explain it to you. It’s hard to explain to someone how their positions are stupid.
Try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
21. keefer | January 18th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Edwards denounced the Hispanic ad against Hitlery in Nevada. He’s such a tough guy; too bad he’s wasting his money on a failed campaign.
Gee, what am I saying? Edwards is doing fine; he keeps finishing third. He’s very consistent.
What? There’s only three Donkaroaches running? Never mind…
22. Jeff Albertson | January 18th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
My “liberal heroes” include “Scoop” Jackson; Hubert Humphrey, John Breaux, Mother Teresa, Harold Ford, Jr., and Sam Rayburn. JFK and FDR should have been in that group, but JFK failed to accomplish much of anything and FDR tried to subvert the Constitution at every turn.
And I have no intention of leaving this great country; I plan on helping it find its way to greatness. (Notice I didn’t say “back” to greatness? Because I don’t think we’ve achieved the greatness we’re capable of.)
23. neocon | January 18th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
I use to be a liberal, but I didn’t leave the Democratic Party. They left me.
24. Tractatus | January 18th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
The most difficult task we conservatives face in the battle for victory this year is the mental density of our opponents - it just gets tiresome to have to continually restate the obvious for them, as they keep asking the same stupid questions, and keep making the same divorced-from-reality observations.
If there were a way we could hook up Noonan’s Project-O-Matic to the power grid, we’d have energy independence in no time.
Mark Noonan, the creationist who insists that we didn’t use WMD as the main justification for invading Iraq, that we DID find WMDs in Iraq, that Iraq is going swimmingly, that Valerie Plame was never undercover, that democracy can’t exist without Catholicism, that abstinence-only education actually works, that the Bush administration has been unflinchingly honest, and that “the left” is a sinister cabal dating back to the French Revolution whose goal is to eradicate god from society, is worrying about “divorced from reality observations” from “mentally dense” opponents. Man, that’s funny.
25. bagni | January 18th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
marknificent….
the flaw in your argument??
you assume ‘rich’ means # of dollars
rich to political and affiliated crew is about power/recognition
and unlike cash money
even a little bit more
is an irrestible tractor beam
just a thought
26. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Rathaven,
Please quote me in saying anything about expertise. My point was to question the relevance Kahn’s example of his sisters. However, if he imagined it was somehow relevant I was offering a counter-example that might be relevant to him personally, not you.
Retired Spook,
I would characterize that as the kind of sweeping statement, absent evidence, that I addressed in my response to you yesterday. No political affiliation has a monopoly on making baseless accusations and I would call that a baseless accusation.
27. TiredofLibBullShit | January 18th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
They are not called USEFUL IDIOTS for nothing!
There seems to be some confusion about that term. There have been baseless accusations that I got the term from Rush, Hannity, Coulter, etc.; that I have a macro programmed for it (whatever the hell that function would serve) or that it is the latest Republican neocon talking point. Not one of the IDIOTS has researched the origin of the term and it meaning, as I suggested them to do so. I guess if the link isn’t exactly posted, they are at a loss. Or, if they do have to type in an address and its not http://www.moveon.ort, http://www.dailykos.com or http://www.democraticunderground.com, they just can bring themselves to do it (sort of sacreligious I guess).
Okay IDIOTS, let the talking points spew forth!
28. Rathaven | January 18th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Khan’s sisters’ story was to show the maturation of the liberal ideology into conservatism; your story about your brothers was … wait … you’re right; your story about your brothers had no relevance to the thread.
Sorry, do carry on changing subjects until you find one you’re comfortable with.
29. plainjane | January 18th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Mark,
You and Luntz have us all wrong. We are starting to see a new dawn. Tomorrow we start the one-year countdown towards the end of this national nightmare known as the Bush administration. We think so much of President Bush that we will not say one word, not one single critical word if he spends three months or more on vacation this year. We also encourage him to get deeply involved in the planning of Jenna’s wedding. 1/20/2009
30. AgentFear | January 18th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
To quote one of your all time heroes:
” There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.”
D. Rumsfeld.
Your right. I hate him. I hate him with a seething hate. A festering puss filled hate. I hate his wise ass smirk. I hate his cute little demeaning names he gives the press and subordinates.
I hate the way he puts his elbows on the podium. I hate the way he destroys the American English language.
I hate the way he lied us into war because of “faulty intelligence”. (one of the known unknowns).
I hate the way his adminstration outed Valerie Plame. (one of the known unknowns).
I hate the way he has used and abused the FISA act. (one of the known knowns).
I hate the way he overly abused signing statements.
I hate for his condoning and validating USING TORTURE. (one of the known unknowns.)
I hate him for destroying our economy. (one of the coming known knowns)
I hate him for bringing incredible division to our country.
I don’t count the days until this…this…person leaves office.
I count the nanoseconds.
31. TiredofLibBullShit | January 18th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Thanks AgentSmear.
That’s one!
32. Kahn | January 18th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
More proof: The government of L.A. paid this jerk $1.5 million
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,323727,00.html
33. Jonathan | January 18th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
The most difficult task we conservatives face in the battle for victory this year is the mental density of our opponents - it just gets tiresome to have to continually restate the obvious for them, as they keep asking the same stupid questions, and keep making the same divorced-from-reality observations.
This is rich!
This is the same Mark Noonan who believes the following:
-That WMD’s were found in Iraq, even though we haven’t found jack squat.
-That Bush administration has been 100% truthful with the American people.
-That democracy will be destroyed without the presence of Catholicism.
-That abstinence-only education is actually working and that using a condom is a sin against God.
-That the Republicans were going to retain the House and Senate two years ago, even though the scandals, the war, and the complete incompetence of the GOP, sunk them like a stone.
And you’re calling liberals “divorced from reality?”
Whatever helps you fall asleep at night.
34. JHL | January 18th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Mark is latent and Bush is his secret, fantasized lover.
35. liberalT | January 18th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
i have come to the conclusion that either
(1) Mark is just baiting people and doesn’t believe most of what he says
(2) Mark is clinically insane and needs medication to bring his brain chemistry back into balance
lets vote!
36. Kahn | January 18th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
ah, good old unsubstantiated allegations and vile insults. Tactics 1a and 7b from the liberal play book. Good thing that book was printed as a comic book.
37. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
TiredofLibBullShit,
I’ve known all along the origin of the term useful idiot that you throw around in lieu of actual thought. Did you want us all to applaud your cleverness? Did you want us all to say, “Aww! Look. TiredofLibBullShit read the phrase ‘useful idiot’ one time and now he sprinkles it into all his hatelets. Isn’t that cute?” Consider yourself applauded if it pleases you to do so.
Rathaven,
I note with interest your failure to quote me saying anything about expertise as I requested. I guess you couldn’t manufacture something that didn’t happen. The point is that my describing my brothers (whom you apparently aren’t quite ready to belly up to the bar and insult openly because two of them actually didn’t curl up in the safety of college or the Texas Air National Guard and went to Vietnam a total of three times), are as relevant to this topic (Mark’s demonstration of his ability to call people names and demonize them) as Khan’s sisters, e.g., not that much.
What it does do is demonstrate the complete falsity that one matures into conservatism. If my brother Marc was so “immature” in his thinking, why was he working for Secretary Rumsfeld on 09/11/01 and why did he get selected to go with Lt. Gen. Jay Garner as part of the Office for Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance (ORHA) after our invasion of Iraq? Why did he receive the Soldier’s Medal, the highest military award for actions not associated with combat? Why did his last OER have his raters state that he should be considered for promotion to general officer? There are immature liberals and there are immature conservatives. Place yourself where you will.
38. Ricorun | January 18th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
ToLBS, although Machiavelli didn’t coin the term “useful idiot” (yeah I know who did), he employed the concept to great advantage. But he didn’t invent the concept, either — it’s been used by politicians since the beginning of time, to lesser or greater effectiveness. To suggest that VL invented “useful idiots” is like suggesting radical islamists invented “terrorism” — or Hitler invented “scapegoats”. All of those things have a long and storied history.
39. Spysmasher | January 18th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Ignore the comments of the simpletons below. Wow, are they naive. They wouldn’t last five minutes on Madison Avenue. Here’s a tip for everyone: Stupid people do not evaluate based on facts; they evaluate based on impressions, and these impressions are limited to their own experience. Trying to persuade stupid people rationally is pointless. Hillary knows that! That’s why she cried in that diner. She knows her base is stupid, and easily moved by such nonsense.
40. js | January 18th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Its getting pretty clear who the useful idiots are. Mark isnt so stupid as you all make him out to be.
In fact, he has provoked each and every one of you liberals to behave at your base level, sniveling rats attacking out of context on a blog, proving that nothing you say carries any value whatsoever.
41. js | January 18th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Trying to persuade stupid people rationally is pointless.
———–
Probably the most profound truth on this blog!!
42. AgentFear | January 18th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
js,
“Its getting pretty clear who the useful idiots are. Mark isnt so stupid as you all make him out to be.”
Shhhh…Psst…(you’re the useful idiot).
Think about it moron.
43. js | January 18th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
So, you believe Jesus of Nazareth would call people “dumb”, “stupid” and “mentally dense”? Interesting. I didn’t know he was a Republican.
DP
No, he called them fools. (Rom 1:22)
44. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Hope does spring eternal, doesn’t it, js? I was hoping you wouldn’t notice the sharp contrast with Mark’s own high level remarks (certainly at least junior high level).
45. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
So Jesus was a Republican, js?
46. js | January 18th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
42. AgentFear
Psst, please, if you must snivel, do so intelligently.
The more I think about it, the more I realise that “agent fear” is a misnomer for your characture.
It should be “agent coward” instead, wouldnt you agree!!
an if ya dont grasp the meaning of that, aye guess yur just another mommys boey
47. js | January 18th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
45. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
So Jesus was a Republican, js
———————————
No, he was just honest. The first Republican freed the slaves in america.
Its pretty dumb for you not to know that simple tidbit, isnt it!!
48. js | January 18th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Hope does spring eternal, doesn’t it, js? I was hoping you wouldn’t notice the sharp contrast with Mark’s own high level remarks (certainly at least junior high level).
—————————-
Actually sweety, Im probably old enough to be your father. Not that Im braggin mind you, but with your record of taking so much out of context (like Marks statements), its really amazing that anyone really replies to your chit. Chat…that is.
49. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
If you and your suffering, noble band truly want to pridefully puff yourselves up for the task ahead, Mark, you can always pat yourselves on the back with a little Henry V:
50. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
js,
I hold no animus towards you. It is my wish that you are healthy, prosperous and blessed with loving relationships as I type these words. However, I would ask you not to patronize me. I am, most assuredly, not your sweety.
51. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
js,
It’s pretty…something…to assume things that are not in evidence given that I’ve never written anything on the topic of slavery or President Lincoln at any time on this blog. However, I’ve noticed a trend among commenters to imagine things that other people know or don’t know. It’s good to have an active imagination.
52. Canadian Observer | January 18th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
It is curious that not one person has been able to give a reasonable or even sensible rebuttal to any of Diana Powe’s posts.
Surely to goodness, there has to be at least one of you resident repugs with a smidgen of intelligence. Someone who can put forth, with good sense and without resorting to insults, an argument of merit to counteract any statement that Diana has posted.
Right now she is putting y’all to shame.
53. js | January 18th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
51. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
No, he was just honest. The first Republican freed the slaves in america.
Its pretty dumb for you not to know that simple tidbit, isnt it!!
js,
It’s pretty…something…to assume things that are not in evidence given that I’ve never written anything on the topic of slavery or President Lincoln at any time on this blog.
————————-
you are really something arent ya sweetie…
you asked if Jesus was a Republican, no, I guess he wasnt
logically, its simple to figure out, yet, for some reason, you dont use logic, do you? Do you extricate emotion to announce that you have never written about slavery or Lincoln on this blog, in a vain attempt to, once again, take an issue out of context? Or are you just too stupid to realise that it is not even logical for you to ask if Jesus was a Republican, seeing how the Republican Party was not formed until, well, until we set our foot down and made Abraham Lincoln president…and then we went to war to set the slaves free.
Aye, its a bit complicated for your mind I see. Dont patronize yourself sweetie, by pandering idiotic expressions to conceal your confusion.
And honestly, you really should deny it. How petty it truely is!!
54. Jeremiah | January 18th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
It’s good to have an active imagination.
Yeah, you’re good at that, Diana, as most of your kind are!
~ Jeremiah
55. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
js,
Okay, given my good wishes for you and my request that you not patronize me, I can only take by your repetition of the word sweety that your full intent now is to be rude and insulting. Duly noted. So, please, do carry on.
May I suggest that while you’re congratulating yourself on straightening out my staggeringly obvious confusion about the chronology of Jesus relative to the American Civil War that you let your fingers do the walking through the dictionary and stop at the entry for irony.
56. js | January 18th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
The only thing obvious about you is your forked tongue sweety.
Full intent. Do you practice at it? Is it natural, or did you have to go to college to learn that?
57. js | January 18th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
45. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
So Jesus was a Republican, js
———————————
No, he (Meaning Jesus) was just honest. The first Republican freed the slaves in america
————————-
Now, think real hard on this sweety.
58. js | January 18th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
I guess you were the LIBERAL Schmuck that put Jesus and Republican in the same sentence, eh sweety!!
You need to own your own pile of poop here.
59. Diana Powe | January 18th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
js,
Congratulations. You’re certainly making the case for the honor and integrity of Republicans here.
60. Jeremiah | January 18th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Diana,
Abe freed the slaves from slave labor!
What did Jesus free us from?
~ Jeremiah
61. Jonathan | January 18th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Nothing. He never existed.
kidding, btw.
What is freeing humanity for our sins?
62. AgentFear | January 18th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
js,
I attempt to write with the wild eyed passion of a blue collar patriot. I neither care what you think of me, nor do I care much for you. I have no compunction calling you a buffoon.
You Sir, write with neither passion or intelligence. You Sir, must be smitten with the bottle. I advise you to wipe your mouth of drool, and pause.
Ms. Powe, I beg your pardon at some of my language and intolerance.
I truly admire your wit and I enjoy your repartee.
I have no patience left for the neanderthal, war mongering, religious zealots who routinely post here.
63. Jeremiah | January 18th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
What is freeing humanity for our sins?
Jonathan,
Jesus Christ is freedom. He came for freedom, to set us free. Thus, when we accept God’s plan of Salvation, we are no longer slave children. But free, by who? Through Jesus!
Abe know this very well, which he used Jesus example to turn help him come to the decision that he did.
A Democrat could have done the same thing.
Freedom to Democrats today though, is freedom to loose sinful lifestyles out on the whole of the country.
~ Jeremiah
64. AgentFear | January 19th, 2008 at 12:02 am
Yeah,
Take it from Ted Haggard, Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, and the rest of the dime store preachers.
Spare us the sermon. This falling house of cards belongs to YOU and YOURS.
Think hard. There is a reason people snicker at you. There is a reason people think you’re strange.
You are.
65. Mark Noonan | January 19th, 2008 at 12:07 am
CO,
You seem to say that pretty often - our view is that we’ve yet to see a cogent argument from Diana…
66. Mark Noonan | January 19th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Tract,
Have you ever read the authorization for military action in Iraq? Just wondering…
67. Jonathan | January 19th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Freedom to Democrats today though, is freedom to loose sinful lifestyles out on the whole of the country.
Sure. Whatever you say, Jeremiah.
68. Mark Noonan | January 19th, 2008 at 12:19 am
Diana,
It is good to keep in mind that not all doubts are reasonable. Dissent is a good thing in a democratically governed Republic, but dissent for the mere sake of dissent is stupid. There is, in the leftwing critique of Bush, a huge amount of “I don’t like conservatives/Republicans, and so I will dissent from President Bush…please provide me a reason - any reason - for so doing”. I am, as you aptly remind me (something I am, believe it or not, grateful for), supposed to be gentle and loving in my response to the citicisms…I am, however, a fallible human being and while I will try, I won’t always do it precisely the way I should. And in this case, it is surpassingly difficult to take the monumentally stupid criticisms of President Bush and work out a kind response.
In short: if you don’t want me to say you sound like a pack of idiots, don’t act like a pack of idiots. I’ll try in future to find different words and phrases to convey the concept of “idiot”, but you bear a responsibility here, too.
69. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Think hard. There is a reason people snicker at you. There is a reason people think you’re strange.
There’s nothing strange about it.
They done Jesus the same way, up until they crucified Him, and they’ll continue … until he returns.
~ Jeremiah
70. SEW | January 19th, 2008 at 12:24 am
At least dian has only mentioned her aggie brothers once here. At Salon they are mentioned every 4th blathering post. What a household growing up, 3 aggies and a bipolar daughter.
71. AgentFear | January 19th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Please don’t compare yourself to Christ.
Hypocrite.
72. Kahn | January 19th, 2008 at 12:43 am
This is the funniest thread here in a long time. It did provoke some good outbursts though. It’s hard to get liberals to admit how they REALLY feel sometimes.
1. Bad intelligence lead us into Iraq. Part of the reason for the bad intelligence (which EVERY major intelligence agency believed) was that Sadaam Husein wanted people to believe he was working on WMD. But the country was still a threat, had violated the armistice and cease fire.
2. Because of Iraq, TWO hostile nations in the area stopped their weapons programs. That’s TWO nations that HAVE stopped working on bombs aimed at us that would not have stopped. This accomplishment is minimized by the left - yet no other examples of it ever happening can be given.
3. Plame - I’ve heard good arguments from believe it or not CIA people that outing her was bullsh*t and it didn’t matter if she fit the definition of “covert” as defined by the law or not. But I also think that the CIA and the other intelligence agencies hide a whole bunch of incompetence behind that veil of secrecy. I’m actually mixed on this.
4. I remember when the press attacked George Bush for pointing out (correctly) that we were in a recession during the run up to the 2000 election. They accused him of trying to cause a recession. We are NOT in a recession now as defined, a recession is two or more quarters with negative growth in GDP). So who is trying to cause a recession now? problems? Yes. End of the world? No.
5. Torture. Define it. Then define the legal status of Al Queada members we have captured? Soldiers guilty of war crimes? Criminals? What? If any liberals answer - they will not answer completely. If two or more answer, they won’t agree on terms and definitions. How can we argue with that?
6. FISA - Interesting. This is touted as a major abrogation of rights. Yet, we are essentially dealing with military (and not “criminal”) communications between a foreign based command structure and spies/saboteurs based here in the USA. A spy/saboteur has absolutely no rights under the Geneva Conventions. None. Summary field execution is an accepted and widely practiced solution.
7. Person speech habits of George Bush. Well, tough. I would say at this point - your judgement is clouded by your (admitted) hate.
8. Diana - cut and paste a nice gray area in your reply - OK?
Oh and I think this post from the other day works here:
How will you run electric cars, without power plants to charge the batteries? What other times have tax rebates to this strata worked to stimulate the economy to any significant degree? You people are more easily lead around by the nose than a herd of cows.
Think dammit. Your party is in one way or another opposed to EVERY energy solution save solar. You don’t want green house gases, yet you stifle nuclear and wind energy. Never mind that your leadership ignores these ideas themselves and live lavish lifestyles - you actually have no idea how to bridge the gap between your concerns and physical reality.
You want to stimulate the economy - but instead you come up with a socialist “feel good” answer.
You are afraid of global warming - yet you stifle wind and nuclear power.
You say you are for personal freedom - yet you attack the the first and second amendments and refuse people to choose where and how to educate their children.
You say you are for free speech - yet you attack the single neutral (or for sake of argument, the single conservative) news outlet. You seek to remove popular talk radio shows from Armed Forces Radio. You seek to regulate talk radio. You shout down conservative speakers and actually occasionally physically attack them.
You say you are in support of illegal immigrants - yet you use the same socio-economic arguments that slaveholders used to justify their continued illegal status and lower wages. You use similar argument to justify the murder (yes - prove otherwise) of “unborn” children.
You say you “support” the troops - yet we see marchers with F*** the Troops signs, governments refusing Boy Scouts the right to collect sundry supplies for deployed troops, pork inserted into defense spending, recruiters denied access to high schools and college campuses. We also see all news of the war disappear from the airwaves and print media as news turns good. We see you argue for defeat in the face of victory.
You say you want equality - yet you continue to support destructive welfare policies that have sapped the self reliance and energy of a huge segment of our population and lead to the complete disintegration of the family structure. Your answer to the loss of the family is, “it takes a village.” Yet - you offer no village. And now, with a black man poised to actually become president, we see your true colors come to the surface.
73. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 12:53 am
Please don’t compare yourself to Christ.
It is true that I could never perfect like Jesus was perfect. But through His help, I will one day be perfect. However, in the meantime, He gave me His word, that the world hated Him, because He testified that the works of this world are Evil. He also says that anyone who accepts His plan, and testifies of these things will also be hated. Such is proof when you say Hypocrite.
Take care.
~ Jeremiah
74. Jonathan | January 19th, 2008 at 1:23 am
He gave me His word, that the world hated Him, because He testified that the works of this world are Evil.
So Mr. Jesus verbally talked to you? Could you ask Him if he prefers the Chargers or the Patriots on Sunday?
When man talks to God, it is called praying. When Man claims that God has spoken back, it is called schizophrenia.
75. Mark Noonan | January 19th, 2008 at 1:29 am
Agent,
You, and the rest of the critics, really got to learn when to quit - and attacking a Christian on his imperfections as a Christian is one of those times. We know - in fact, we know better than you do not only what we’re doing wrong, but why we do it and how we can slowly come ’round to not doing it. We also, though, rejoice and give thanks when we are attacked - both because Our Lord said we would be, but also because it gives us more chances to try and be like Christ (which efforts we regularly fail at, but try and try again is an unofficial Christian motto, as it were).
As was said:
In a very real sense, the more you insult us on this level, the more help you’re giving us. You could, indeed, be the answer to a prayer. Like this: I often pray that I’ll be more patient with my father…and so God provides ever more chances to me to exercise patience. So, insult away, if you must…but, keep in mind, when you do such, you are doing yourself grave harm, and we urge you to turn aside from your wrath and listen to Him.
76. Mark Noonan | January 19th, 2008 at 1:34 am
Jonathan,
When we read the scripture, we believe that God is speaking directly to us. I don’t know how they work it in Jeremiah’s denomination, but at Sunday Mass, after the priest reads the Gospel passage for that day, the congregation responds in unison, “praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ” - we literally praising Jesus Christ for speaking to us via the voice of the priest. The vocal chords belong to the priest, but the words are the Word of God.
So, yes, Jesus directly told us such things…
77. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 1:37 am
So Mr. Jesus verbally talked to you?
Yes, Jonathan, through His word, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, first and second Corinthians, Galations Ephesians, Phillippians, Colossians, first & second Thessalonians, first & second Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, first & second Peter, first, second and third John, Jude on into Revelation. And all of the Old Testament.
~ Jeremiah
78. js | January 19th, 2008 at 8:51 am
62. AgentFear | January 18th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
js,
I attempt to write with the wild eyed passion of a blue collar patriot. I neither care what you think of me, nor do I care much for you. I have no compunction calling you a buffoon.
You Sir, write with neither passion or intelligence. You Sir, must be smitten with the bottle. I advise you to wipe your mouth of drool, and pause.
————————–
Bottle? Not here son. I do not partake in mood altering substances, short of a few cups of coffee that is. And believe me when I tell ya, using passion and intelligence to smite liars and rumor mongoring cheats really isnt as effective as just the plain truth. Its really not a matter of couth and etiquette, nor wit, but the love of the truth will suffice to whip the butts of your liberal scum every time.
Which brings to mind an old saying.
The heart of a fool is in his mouth, but the mouth of a wise man is in his heart.
–Benjamin Franklin
So much for the passion and intelligence coming from your mouth, eh? Buffoon? Is that how you lick your wounds laddie? By using antiquated terms to insult others with…? Is this what you call “wit”? Like when when ya called me a Moron? I have truely met children with more wit than that sunny, you need practice!!!
79. js | January 19th, 2008 at 9:06 am
77. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 1:37 am
So Mr. Jesus verbally talked to you?
Yes, Jonathan, through His word, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, first and second Corinthians, Galations Ephesians, Phillippians, Colossians, first & second Thessalonians, first & second Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, first & second Peter, first, second and third John, Jude on into Revelation. And all of the Old Testament.
~ Jeremiah
——————————-
Dont really hold from tellin the truth now. Good intentions are a fine thing, and the whole truth is even better than that. You read the Bible, and you know its true.
The Holy Spirit lives today. He works in our lives and reveals to us the things that are of a higher nature than what we can know ourselves. These are utterances from the Spirit, who is God, are the same as the utterances from Jesus, who is also God. He speaks to my heart, He speaks to my soul, and He speaks to my mind. It is no different than if He were standing right before me speaking to me every time. Its not only in the Bible that you find His Word, its written on your heart as well.
Yes, Jesus does talk to me. From the first time I met him, and he never stopped.
80. bagni | January 19th, 2008 at 9:45 am
two quotes for you…..
i cannot imagine a god who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own - a god, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty.
albert einstein, physicist, nobel laureate (1879-1955)
you earthlings are always bringing the crazy…period.
bagni, alien earth visitor (19??- )
81. Mark Noonan | January 19th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Bagni,
Thanks for bringing up that great quote - I’m happy you were so willing to demonstrate why people shouldn’t make declarative statements outside their area of expertise. What a brilliant man, Einstein was…but in theology as in politics, he was akin to the village idiot…
82. js | January 19th, 2008 at 9:57 am
To einstien;
When it is naught, but only human frailty that is capable of describing God, then what words are we to use out of our ignorance? If indeed God punishes us in truth, or if he allows us to reap the rewards which we duely sow out of our own ignorance, can we truely say any more than our own ignorance is the only true measure that matters?
and i dont deal with aliens, at least ones that we think talk to us.
83. AgentFear | January 19th, 2008 at 10:53 am
The site should be called:
Blogs for (H)ipocracy
84. FmrMarine | January 19th, 2008 at 11:07 am
NOW you did it Mark,
you stirred the (CRACK) pot and they all came swarming.
It is interesting the amount of time, and energy the tinfoil hatted, liberal, marxist - lunatics spend posting here, as though we are going to receive a divine revelation from their socialist drivel and agree with their b#!! $#!t.
85. bagni | January 19th, 2008 at 11:31 am
mark-stein
the aliens still like you and your victorious compatriots
despite the fact
you’re a human that constantly makes declarative statements outside your expertise
86. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 11:53 am
bagni belongs to the church of Satan.
A dangerous group. Who worship the earth.
These individuals are those that the apostle Paul talked about in the book of Romans that js quoted earlier. Romans 1:22. “though they think they are wise, they became fools”. Given over to their own selfish, sinful, foolish desires.
~Jeremiah
87. js | January 19th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
There it is.
Jesus called people fools.
Now aint that sumpthin!!
88. bagni | January 19th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
jerrymiah
never said i was wise
just sharing with you
my kind doesn’t worship the earth…
we worship virtue
actually i agree with your master jesus
humans are foolish
surely you’ll find a way to twist our good intentions
89. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Jesus called people fools.
Now aint that sumpthin!!
Yeah, it is. So many people make the mistake by saying, “Jesus was tolerant.”
Well, the only thing I can say to that is, if He was so “tolerant” then He would not have came to die for our sins.
Which means …. Sodom and Gomorrah would have continued their rampage on the earth, there would have been so much chaos on the earth, that it would have been unbearable for most.
So, through the cross, He proved for the last time, that He loves us, and that He cannot tolerate sin. When Jesus hung on that ol’ Cross, God turned His face away. And what a load … the entire sin of the world, from beginning to end, Jesus had taken it all, and poured out his precious blood, so that all might be free.
What a Savior!
:)
‘
‘
~ Jeremiah
90. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
bagni,
Atheist, Humanist, Satanist are all under Satan’s capture, all believing the lie that Satan his you believing.
That’s not distortion either, that’s from God’s Word.
~ Jeremiah
91. SEW | January 19th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
FmrMarine,
Yes, you are correct about the socialist drivel and BS. But I have to admit it really brings back fond memories for me. For example when I read dian, and the nonsense words she uses like cognitive dissonance, I am reminded of the BS social “sciences” classes I took in college to get a gpa bump.
Hard science students knew how to bump the gpa. By far the worst students were found in the social science section. Thus competition was virtually nonexistent. All one needed to do was find a SDS vendor wandering aimlessly about campus, buy a peace pendant necklace and a few strands of beads, sandals and not take a shower more than once a month. Purchase a peace T, purchase the required “texts” and attend class. At class parties, make certain the “professor” could see you taking a few tokes.
Anyhow, reading the crap from the socialists takes me back to those carefree days. Too bad so many of the socialists are now tenured professors, or still starry eyed off the Francois Kerrys of the world.
Thanks dian for your help in finding these cognitive dissonant suppressions dwelling in the depths of my white matter frontal cortex. BS intended.
92. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
King Solomon said, as God inspired him-in Proberbs 28:26
He who trusts in himself is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom is kept safe.
~ Jeremiah
93. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
^^^^^^
For bagni.
~ Jeremiah
94. Jonathan | January 19th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
You read the Bible, and you know its true.
But how do you know that the Bible is the absolute truth? I’ve got news for ya, there are a handful of religions that claim that their Holy Book holds the absolute truth. What makes your version any more true?
bagni belongs to the church of Satan.
A dangerous group. Who worship the earth.
Another reason why I can’t stand you Christian lunatics: anyone that doesn’t agree with your perverted version of Christianity is some poor misguided soul who’s being used by Satan to work his evil onto the world.
95. Diana Powe | January 19th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Mark,
Come on now. Let’s be honest here. The only way you would ever admit to any argument I made as being cogent would be if I argued for the same beliefs that you hold. You make it endlessly clear that you see yourself as having escaped your past and come to the sunny mountain top of intellect in your “conservative” views and that anyone not standing there next to you is beneath you in intellect, moral development and citizenship. That’s the show that you put on here for your acolytes and is why they come here for their entertainment. That’s the entire point of this posting. It had nothing to do with events. It was only a way of denigrating those who, in your world view, are your inferiors. It is, quite simply, vanity (from Ecclesiastes):
You have the perfect, insular intellectual perspective that simply disallows entry to anything but what you have already decided is true. In fact, it is precisely that which you accuse your inferiors of doing. It’s really pretty sad.
96. jj | January 19th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
wow, what a crazy thread. How come no responses to post #72 by Kahn?
97. Canadian Observer | January 19th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
So many people make the mistake by saying, “Jesus was tolerant.”
89. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
I don’t know, Jeremiah. How do you account for the tolerance He shows toward the insane actions and absolute garbage that His ‘followers’ do in His name?
If He was not in possession of a tolerant nature, the Jesus figure who is portrayed in the biblical scriptures would have had his Father smite those earthly creatures who, while professing to be devoutly Christian, routinely misrepresent His teachings.
If, as you say, Jeremiah, He cannot tolerate sin, why has He allowed these pious pretenders to continue to violate His holy name?
98. TiredofLibBullShit | January 19th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
SEW writes:
“Yes, you are correct about the socialist drivel and BS. But I have to admit it really brings back fond memories for me. For example when I read dian, and the nonsense words she uses like cognitive dissonance, I am reminded of the BS social “sciences” classes I took in college to get a gpa bump.”
How true! How true!
The PRIVATE university I attended had two different chemistry classes for non-chemistry majors. Once was for the engineers and the second was for the A&S (Arts & Science) students. The “science” was social science, of course. The course had to be separated to the non-science types (most of whom were in remedial classes).
During the week, you could tell the A&S students from the rest. They were usually on the quad sunning themselves or playing frisbee and of course they were dressed as you described. We would see them on our way to the labs or to the library and wondered where they got all their free time.
Taking the A&S courses for our required social studies credits were all the same - read the book, write the required papers and generally agree with the professor (heaven forbid if you did not) - just give him/her the BS they are looking for, speak the “lingo” - easy A.
Luckily, the courses I took (Economics I&II, History I&II and “Vampires and the Undead”) did not have hard core liberals as instructors. The economics and history was consistent with what I had in high school, no surprises, no revisions. I remember in Economics I, the topic was supply and demand. The instructor was talking about plotting the supply and demand curves calculating their slopes etc. The majority of the A&S students were feverently writing down everything on how to calculate the slope. Come on! This was basic Algebra!
My wife took a course called Religious Writings in English Literature. She was not so lucky with the instructor who was, get this, AN ATHEIST! How can an atheist teach the course, that went against his very belief. Mostly, a student had to read the literary passage and interpret what he/she symbolized in the writing to the religions of the era and locale (Catholicism, Lutheranism, Baptist, Protestant). In order for may wife to pass, she had to ignore her faith and write in agreement with the instructor (grad student). If someone brought up religion, the rest of the hour was wasted with this guy trying to push his beliefs on them and convince them they were wrong.
Libs are taking over the universities with their political correctness and their BS sociology. You know - “to get along you must go along”. Indoctrination at its worst! And to think, the liberals here are bitching about what happens if they don’t agree with us.
99. Diana Powe | January 19th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
jj,
Your wish is my command, in this instance:
1 - Iraq intelligence - Kahn states that it really doesn’t matter about the intelligence because we had to invade Iraq no matter what reason we used. Alleged ends justify real means.
2 - Result of Iraq - Kahn, like the President, can’t decide if he does or doesn’t accept the latest NIE. However, if you’re part of the President Bush cult of personality, it sounds better to claim, absent actual insight into the mental processes of the people involved, that “TWO nations…HAVE stopped working on bombs aimed at us.” (emphasis original)
3 - Valerie Plame-Wilson - Kahn is “mixed on this”, but, in the end, is not going to criticize President Bush or any of his subordinates at the White House. This would jeopardize membership in cult of personality.
4 - Recession - Kahn ignores how recessions are identified, i.e., after the fact. The American economy may or may not be in recession right now, but nothing about that should redound onto President Bush. This would jeopardize membership in cult of personality.
5 - Torture - Kahn doesn’t want to talk about it but assumes that it doesn’t happen because President Bush told him so. As a fallback, takes Judge Mukasey position, i.e., I don’t have an opinion because I haven’t been briefed on it. Make counteraccusations.
6 - FISA - Kahn hasn’t read or doesn’t understand FISA statute which makes none of the distinctions that he claims are relevant. Expresses hope for summary executions.
7 - Presidential inarticulateness - Kahn and I agree. We’re stuck with it for another 367 days.
8 - Kahn really doesn’t like me. Takes petty swipe.
100. js | January 19th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Why is that you can quote Eccllesiastes, yet you post with such confounded understanding Diana Powe?
“For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool’s voice is known by multitude of words.”
101. Mark Noonan | January 19th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Diana,
You could very well be smarter than me - heck, you might be the smartest person in the world…but you haven’t thought the matter through all the way. Anyone who thinks the matter through will abandon such concepts as: Bush lied about WMD; we’re fighitng for oil; we’re torturing people at Gitmo…and, also, abortion is a right; gay marriage is beneficial; pornography should be easily obtainable; passing out condoms in high school is a good idea; high taxes on income is fair…and on and on and on…
If you would stop and think for a bit - and I mean really THINK - then you’re whole world view would start to change…and if, in addition to this thinking, you’d stop believing propaganda dressed up as history and philosophy, you’d eventually come around to my point of view - make that change from propaganda to history and you’ll start understanding the following - Christianity (and its Jewish roots) is the basis of our entire civilization; the Crusades were a counter-attack; no scientist has ever been killed by Christians for the mere fact of his beliefs…but non-Christians (especially leftist non-Christians) have murdered lots and lots of scientists for precisely that; charity is what you do, not what a government program does; while we are created equal, we don’t have equal gifts and thus there will always be unequal outcomes in life; the worst sin is Pride…
Its up to you, Diana, to get with the program - not for me to try and make you feel better by pretending the nonsense you believe is other than nonsense.
102. Tractatus | January 19th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Diana Powe wins with post 95. Mark Noonan, perfectly distilled. The comedy comes from the fact that a guy who considers himself so smart and well-informed is so egregiously wrong about so many things, yet goes right on thinking he’s correct.
103. Mark Noonan | January 19th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Tract,
Actually, I make no claim to any great intelligence and I freely admit that the largest thing about me is how little I know…but, then again, that is all of us…what I have done, however, is not insist that facts fit my world view but have insisted that my worldview fit the facts.
What is most astonishing about the modern world is just how little people on the left know, and how arrogant they are in their presumed intellectual superiority over others…its like watching a man in rags strut into a formal affair…
104. Faceplant | January 19th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
“and keep making the same divorced-from-reality observations.”
Like when we STILL claim that Saddam had WMD? Oh, wait, that isn’t us.
105. Diana Powe | January 19th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
TiredofLibBullShit,
Honestly, thank you for the chuckle. If I didn’t know better, I’d swear that you two were parodying the anti-intellectual streak that unfortunately often manifests itself on the right.
106. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
why has He allowed these pious pretenders to continue to violate His holy name?
C. Observer,
God is patient, but you musn’t ever confuse patience with “tolerance,” my friend. God cannot, and will never tolerate sin.
Now, He’s already given them His word, and the Holy Spirit is beckoning them.
When God intervenes, He intervenes on behalf of His people. Remember in Genesis, when the outcry was so great against Sodom and Gomorrah and their wickedness. So He said, ‘enough is enough. I shall destroy this place.’
The same can be said for once upon a time, when a man by the name of Saddam Hussein and those who followed him created immense suffering, and the people of that place were reaching out to God, to send somebody…somebody…Anybody, who could help them.
Praise be to God! He answered their prayers.
When this Nation becomes a cess-pit, and the people humble themselves, and ask God for help, then He will their prayers. I’ve quoted the passage here time and time again.
‘If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves, seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will hear their prayers, and will heal their land.’
~ Jeremiah
107. Diana Powe | January 19th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Mark,
I can assure you that I am nowhere within shouting distance of whoever might be the “smartest person in the world”. I don’t, unlike some, even make a claim to near-infallibility in my political views. However, what you wrote here is just a sad, and genuinely pathetic, demonstration of the intellectual insularity that I describe. According to you, I and everyone like me that is so “dumb” and are such “idiots” would be just fine if only all of us came to agree with you on everything. You don’t even see the irony in your claims and your predilection for name-calling. Tragic, in its way…
108. Ricorun | January 19th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Mark: …what I have done, however, is not insist that facts fit my world view but have insisted that my worldview fit the facts.
Pardon me for saying so, but contrary to what you say here, my personal impression is that you’re about the purest example of a top-down thinker I’ve ever come across.
109. Jonathan | January 19th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Diana,
Allow me to transfer what Mark Noonan wrote to what he is actually saying.
Translation: Even if you were smarter than me, I still feel i’m right on the issue and that you’re full of it.
Translation: Only people who are die-hard Bush supporters can truly understand the whole issue and the rest who are living in reality could never begin to comprehend the situation in Iraq.
Translation: a benefit of having your head up your ass is that you can pull random BS out from the same place you have lodged your head.
Translation: Again, if you would stop thinking so complex and begin to think in terms of black-and-white, we would be able to carry out the saying ignorance is bliss. And trust me, it is.
Translation: until you become as blatantly ignorant as I am, you’ll be totally clueless as to what is really going on.
Translation……..on second thought, there’s no translation needed here. It’s all the things you would have to totally ignorant to believe.
110. Faceplant | January 19th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
LOL! Marky freely admits that the largest thing about him is how little he knows, and then goes on to tell Diana that she’s wrong about everything, and he’s right about everything.
Don’t you see. Marky’s just a humble man.
111. Faceplant | January 19th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
“pornography should be easily obtainable;”
When has any Democrat ever said this Marky? Maybe you could (humbly) tell us again how much smarter you are than us, once you are done making up policy positions that mainstream democrats have never held.
112. js | January 19th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Its so funny, Mark is right though. Diana does nothing but evade direct answers to each of the individual issue (because in truth, she doesnt have them). Diana’s only assett that anyone can truely note is her gift of a forked tongue. Its the equivalence of a liars talent, the ability to evade answering while accusing her opponent, but nobody really notices that Diana’s questions are nothing but falsetto phrases and accusations based on lies and innuendo.
Idiot footmen of the forked tongue include, but are not limited too, faceplant, Jonathan, and liberalT (who seems to be missing), and all they do is punch holes in Diana’s bag full of air, Jousting as fools oft do, making sure that we all observe the intellect (or lack thereof) of the “wit” that they actually do not have.
Whilst we dally away the day, reading what ought to be intelligent debate, alas we suffer for naught, for the fools sharade is today.
113. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
I’m glad you mentioned the Crusades, Mark.
I’ve been studying about them a little bit, and there is a myth that the Left consistently, insistingly claim is all Christian’s fault. Left-wing historians have been scrambling feverishly in an attempt to discredit the truth of the matter. Which is…many centuries of Muslim aggression and oppression of Christian people, then, in effect, the Crusades were a delayed response by God’s people to mount an offensive recourse, to free God’s people. God ways are a mystery some times, but He always works for the good of those who love Him.
:)
~ Jeremiah
114. js | January 19th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
By the way mark, what you wrote;
make that change from propaganda to history and you’ll start understanding the following - Christianity (and its Jewish roots) is the basis of our entire civilization; the Crusades were a counter-attack; no scientist has ever been killed by Christians for the mere fact of his beliefs…but non-Christians (especially leftist non-Christians) have murdered lots and lots of scientists for precisely that; charity is what you do, not what a government program does; while we are created equal, we don’t have equal gifts and thus there will always be unequal outcomes in life; the worst sin is Pride…
Thats fantastic.
Thanks for sharing.
115. Faceplant | January 19th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
“Idiot footmen of the forked tongue include, but are not limited too, faceplant, Jonathan, and liberalT (who seems to be missing), and all they do is punch holes in Diana’s bag full of air, Jousting as fools oft do, making sure that we all observe the intellect (or lack thereof) of the “wit” that they actually do not have.”
Right. This is coming from the person who responded with nothing but idiotic strawmen when shown Hamdan v Rumsfeld which stated without a doubt that common article 3 applied to all detainees in US custody.
Let me know when you are done pretending that supreme court cases that don’t support your narrow worldview just didn’t happen.
116. Faceplant | January 19th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
“no scientist has ever been killed by Christians for the mere fact of his beliefs”
Nope, just abortion doctors.
117. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Nearly 50,000,000 and counting…what will you do?
~ Jeremiah
118. phil | January 19th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Mark,
The state of your conscience is at stake, you irrepressible dope. Get a grip on reality for a change
119. AgentFear | January 19th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Its amazing isn’t it?
Stunning. Jaw dropping. Almost incomprehensible twisting, flip flopping narrow minded, egotistical rhetoric displayed by the moderators and their minions.
I have no doubt their glorious leaders, Captains Bush and Cheney are even worse.
I feel they are traitors. Traitors who blindly follow an obviously deranged leader who is leading them and us down a certain path to disaster.
They hide in their religion, as do murderers sitting on death row. They may have led a life debauchery, hedonism and excess. They now live with guilt, guilt buried deep. So religion is their escape. But they cannot hide their souls.
So they trumpet their salvation. Trumpet their magnificent change.
Deep inside, there is no change. They know. They are no better than the spoiled rich kid who lives with out guilt or regret in the Whitehouse.
We know. We see. Their time will come.
Everyone pays the piper.
I pray that time comes soon.
120. Faceplant | January 19th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
“God ways are a mystery some times, but He always works for the good of those who love Him.”
Did the fact the Muslims worship the same god that you do EVER occur to you?
“Nearly 50,000,000 and counting…what will you do?”
Was that in response to me? So you are now not only justifying the crusades, but justifying the murder of abortion providers?
121. js | January 19th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
120. Faceplant | January 19th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Did the fact the Muslims worship the same god that you do EVER occur to you?
————————————
Sure. Right. Hogwash.
Muslims dont know God, or Jesus. To quote a famous Muslim Theologian;
“Most Muslims, including educated ones, know next to nothing about Christology. Few Muslims can distinguish clearly between the view that a man claims to be divine - a blasphemy - and the entirely different view according to which God volunteers to become human - the orthodox Christian conviction. And both of these views are routinely confused with the heretical doctrine that God `adopted’ a son… A Muslim cannot reasonably claim to be seriously engaged in dialogue with Christians unless he can possess a thorough knowledge of the Christian faith…” (Shabbir Akhtar)
How can they worship God when they deny him? Simply put, you are totally wrong. In the Bible, we are told to weigh a Prophet by his Prophecy, yet, Mo didnt have any, and what came close, err’ed. We are instructed not to fear a prophet who err’s. How can that be the same God then? If one is perfect, and the other is not?
122. FmrMarine | January 19th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
The dr’s were not “murdered”……………
they were ABORTED!
I believe the abortion count for the dr’s is @ 50,000,000
The abortion count for the pro lifers is @ 2 - 3
this example is the type of convoluted logic the left uses in all cases,
i figured i would give them a taste of their twisted logic.
The crusades were a perfect example of the on going fight to stave off this evil cult known as islam.
Christianity has done more good in the world than all other “religions” together.
islam and marxism has slaughtered people in the excess of 200,000,000
123. Faceplant | January 19th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
“How can they worship God when they deny him?”
Which they don’t. They believe in God, they do not believe that Christ was god, or was even the son of god. It’s a ridiculous stretch to say that since they don’t believe one aspect of Christianity, that they reject God.
By your logic, the Jews are just as bad if not WORSE than Muslims.
“Sure. Right. Hogwash.”
“Upon the Muslims, too, the Church looks with great esteem. They adore one god, living and enduring, merciful and all-powerful, Maker of heaven and earth and Speaker to all men. They strive to submit wholeheartedly even to His inscrutable decrees, just as did Abraham, with whom the Islamic faith is pleased to associate itself. Although they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary….They prize the moral life, and give worship to God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting. Although in the course of the centuries many quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Muslims, this most sacred Synod urges all to forget the past and to strive sincerely for mutual understanding. On behalf of all mankind, let them make common cause of safeguarding and fostering social justice, moral values, peace, and freedom.”
That would be the official stance of the Catholic Church as laid out in the Nostra Aetate of the Second Vatican Council.
Yes, the VATICAN says that Muslism worship the same God.
It’s is sincerely saddening to see what the Christian religion has become.
124. Faceplant | January 19th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
“The abortion count for the pro lifers is @ 2 - 3″
Actually 8 people have been murdered by your heroes. Of course not all of them were doctors. I guess the off duty cop providing security to the clinic, and the receptionists who worked at the clinic also deserved to be “aborted”.
And that doesn’t count the 17 attempted murders, not only of abortion doctors, but also people who worked at the clinics.
So Marky, are you going to come out and condemn this, or should I gather from your silence that you support the murder of abortion providers? It’s clear that many of your readers do. So what is your position Marky?
125. SEW | January 19th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Plantbrain,
What’s up with your buds down at Gitmo?
126. SEW | January 19th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Plantbrain, I’m certainly against the murders or injury of any type to human life. So Plantbrain, what is your position on the murder of the 40,000,000 innocent children?
127. Jonathan | January 19th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Wow. Absolutely sickening.
I thought God loved all of his children?
Or does religion play a factor into who God chooses to protects?
How you could defend the atrocities that went on during that time of bloodshed is reprehensible.
Jeremiah, you’re no Christian. Not by a longshot. You’re a brainwashed lemming who got suckered into the rants of false preachers like a Jerry Falwell, or a Pat Robertson.
128. SEW | January 19th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Jonathan, Quite a blog you have there. 5 comments in 07. Keep up the good work!
129. Jeremiah | January 19th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Faceplant,
You know, it’s really amusing to watch you squirm, and continue to spew rhetoric to try and discredit the whole of Christianity because of a few lunatics. You can’t see the true differences, because the Devil has you believing, because of the actions of a few that claim to be “Christians” as somehow “justification” to try and paint all religions as the “same.”
The problem isn’t “religious fundamentalism.” Satan is the one that came up with the term - religious fundamentalism.
The problem lies in two areas:
1. The Left-wing Islamist apologists.
2. Folks like YOU, who conjure up myths concerning the truth of Christianity and the distortion thereof, and in turn, the MSM spreads your LIES and half-truths to the ENTIRE WORLD!!!!!
Believe me, Sir! Sane people, don’t THINK like you, and anyone else like your kind!!!
As for the examples you cite, of people who murdered, and those who have attempted to murder abortion doctors, including but not limited to other myths (Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph) that you Left-wingers have used to try and paint all Christians with. What you can’t seem to recognize is:
They didn’t even attempt to justify their actions by referencing to the Christian Scripture or Tradition. They were not acting on mainstream Christian teachings.
Are there large groups around the world dedicated to implementing their actions? No!
Are there large groups of individuals defending their actions? No! Of course not!
Now, sure, people are basically the same everywhere, people have justified violence in the name of every faith. But religions are NOT the “same.”
Christianity is the heart and soul of Western Civilization. It’s who we are as a people, it has shaped and molded us into a great Nation, because of our reliance upon Almighty God who blesses those who obey His Will. Like it or not, it has formed you who reject it, because it has protected you from evil men.
Christianity has not changed. God is the same yesterday, today, and forevermore.
We have been persecuted throughout time, for the sake of Jesus. But the Lord said-’He who endures to the end shall be saved.’
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God!
130. Kahn | January 19th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Diana said “2 - Result of Iraq - Kahn, like the President, can’t decide if he does or doesn’t accept the latest NIE. However, if you’re part of the President Bush cult of personality, it sounds better to claim, absent actual insight into the mental processes of the people involved, that “TWO nations…HAVE stopped working on bombs aimed at us.” (emphasis original)”
Well now you’re just trying to prove that you’re either stupid or a liar. You must know that my position has always been that Iraq and Libya along with North Korea are pretty big damn accomplishments. You love to cut-n-paste, look up some old entries. WE’VE even discussed this. You really are a twit. So yes, you are right I don’t like you.
AND, yes - because of Sadaam we were wrong. WMD was ONE reason for Iraq as stated when we went. Beceause we believed it, we HAD to go. To do anything else would have been wildly irresponsible. But there were other reasons.
But since when was getting two (three with North Korea) stated enemies to stop nuke development a small accomplishment to be dismissed? Has anything like it EVER happened before? What other countries stopped because of what we did? Any? Any at all?
You MUST be stupid to not understand how awful nuclear weapons are. And to think, they’d almost certainly be aimed at liberals?
131. Kahn | January 19th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
But of course - the hypocrisy and sheer stupidity on the left is undeniable. The Iraq thing was the ONLY thing in a hugely long post Diana could find.
Electricity, oil, the economy, you guys have no plan at all.
132. Diana Powe | January 19th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
The essential problem for those who want to take the position that abortion is morally equivalent to murder is that almost none of them will follow through to the absolutely necessary follow-on step to respond to those murders in the way that position logically requires. Instead, they instantly invalidate their own positions by putting the pre-birth human life that is aborted on a less-protected legal plane than that of the post-birth human life of those who are legal parties to the murder.
Murder, as it is usually referred to, is a clearly defined and universally sanctioned crime. It’s not a matter of controversy. There aren’t people who argue for people having a right to choose whether they should be able to murder other people or not. There’s no Roe v. Wade for murder.
So, to say that abortion is the absolute moral equivalent of murdering a post-birth human being, but wanting to penalize it with a completely separate offense sanctioning abortion is ludicrous. As an example, the South Dakota abortion law that was signed by the governor of that state in 2006 would penalize those who performed an abortion as a Class 5 felony with a maximum punishment of 5 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. The statute specifically describes the life that is killed as an “unborn human being”. There was no penalty enacted against the person who solicited or paid for the offense.
In contrast, South Dakota’s criminal code defines its lowest level of homicide, “manslaughter in the second degree”, which is based on “reckless killing” as a Class 4 felony. A person in South Dakota recklessly killing a post-birth human being can receive a maximum punishment of 10 years in prison and a $20,000 fine. Thus, even a statute that was passed in an effort to force a challenge to Roe affords less legal protection for an “unborn human being” than a post-birth human being.
There is only one logical conclusion from this legal construction, “unborn human beings” are not the moral equivalent of post-birth human beings and abortion is not morally equivalent to murder. That is the unequivocal message of the South Dakota statute. If South Dakota were going to take the genuine moral position that abortion is murder they would not have passed the law that they did.
Instead they would have done something much simpler. First, they would repeal one part of Section 22-16-1.1 of the South Dakota Codified Laws which states, “This section does not apply to acts which cause the death of an unborn child if those acts were committed during any abortion, lawful or unlawful, to which the pregnant woman consented.” Then, they would begin to enforce their existing law. Section 22-16-1 defines homicide in this way, “Homicide is the killing of one human being, including an unborn child, by another.” Part of this enforcement would also be against all conspirators to the offense who could be punished at one penalty level lower than the original offense per Section 22-3-8. Therefore, the person committing the murder by abortion would be charged with “Homicide as murder in the first degree” under Section 22-16-4 which defines it as “without authority of law and with a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or of any other human being, including an unborn child…” which is punishable by either death or life imprisonment and a fine up to $50,000. The mother and anyone else acting in conspiracy would be punished at the level of a Class B felony which is punishable by life imprisonment and a fine of up to $50,000.
If those who acted to outlaw abortion in South Dakota in 2006 genuinely wanted to follow their principles, then the above is what they must do. Anything else means that they have abandoned their principles, placed pre-born human life at a lower level than post-birth life and allow a party to the crime, the mother, to go unpunished for her part in being an active participant in the death of her child.
133. js | January 19th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
How you could defend the atrocities that went on during that time of bloodshed is reprehensible.
——————–
The Crusades? Gimme a break. Anyone can research the truth. Only the lame put this trash forward like it were truth though.
The muslim means of expansion were to offer a township the chance to convert to Islam. If they refused, they would slaughter all able bodied men, and all persons unfit for slavery, then force the women into thier personal sex harems, and sell the children for a profit. When they tired of the same women, they either killed them or sold them too.
Want to talk about attrocities? That went on from the 7th century right through the middle ages, and didnt end until the United States took action against them. The Crusades were too little too late, by the time Christians started the Crusades, muslims had conquered the entire Middle east, killed tens of millions of Christians, taken entire nations of Christian people, and were moving on Byzantine. Egypt, Arabia, Assyria, ALL of it was strong in Christianity, and Byzantine, which was the Eastern Roman Empire, was Christian as solid as the vatican. We stopped them alright, so they turned thier armies toward the east, and slaughtered a hundred million hindu afterwards.
Dont preach what you have no clue about laddie, its makes you a very, very poor liberal. Dont ever try to tell us that Christianity was wrong for what we did, because if we didnt do it, you would be speaking Arabic right now, bowing to mecca.
134. js | January 19th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Diana,
Can you show me 1 medical doctor that will say that life does not begin at conception?
135. Diana Powe | January 19th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Do I believe that the legislators who proposed and shepherded South Dakota’s 2006 law to prohibit abortion are so ignorant of their own laws that they don’t understand what I just wrote? Absolutely not. South Dakota’s homicide statutes were essentially laid out in their present form in 1939.
However, what I do believe is they understood one fact:
Genuinely treating abortion as murder and proposing to punish the mother as a conspirator to murder would have subjected them to widespread public criticism for being unfeeling monsters.
This would have happened even though such a position is absolutely logically necessary if they genuinely believe the following principle:
Abortion is murder.
If they wanted to twist the definition of murder away from how it is already defined in South Dakota law and make the killing of an unborn child something less than equivalent to killing one of their family members, colleagues or friends then that’s what they did. However, that means they cannot also say:
Abortion is murder.
It’s something to them, but it’s not murder, and if they call it murder then they are liars, pure and simple.
136. Diana Powe | January 19th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
js,
Off hand, I don’t know of any doctor who would not acknowledge that a human life begins at conception. It’s quite obviously true even if one were an atheist. A human life is created at conception.
Now, for you:
Is abortion murder or not?
Is a pre-birth human being the moral equivalent of a post-birth human being or not?
137. js | January 19th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Is taking a life murder? We know that life begins on inception. Human life. If human life begins at inception, there is no moral dispute here. The only loss of that moral authority is in a court of law.
“Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder). ”
Now, please, tell us Diana.
What is higher, Gods Law, or Mans?
138. Faceplant | January 19th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
“You know, it’s really amusing to watch you squirm, and continue to spew rhetoric to try and discredit the whole of Christianity because of a few lunatics.”
That wasn’t my intention at all. My intention was to point out hypocricy. And I ended up finding out the many on this blog have no problem with abortion providers being murdered.
“Believe me, Sir! Sane people, don’t THINK like you, and anyone else like your kind!!!”
That must mean the Vatican is one crazy place, because their official position is that Muslims worship the same god.
“They didn’t even attempt to justify their actions by referencing to the Christian Scripture or Tradition. They were not acting on mainstream Christian teachings.
Are there large groups around the world dedicated to implementing their actions? No!
Are there large groups of individuals defending their actions? No! Of course not!”
Now you know how Democrats feel when you label them all communist terrorist sympathizers. When you stop trying to label every liberal as an America hating, terrorist loving, secularist (even though most liberals are self identified christians) then I will stop doing the same thing to you.
“What’s up with your buds down at Gitmo?”
When are you gonna come at me with something other than a retarded strawman?
“So Plantbrain, what is your position on the murder of the 40,000,000 innocent children?”
I’m actually quite torn on abortion. Part of me thinks it’s morally wrong, and another part of me thinks that it’s also morally wrong to force a woman to have a child she cannot support. Abortion should be rare, and a last resort. Thanks for asking.
139. js | January 19th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
“I’m actually quite torn on abortion. Part of me thinks it’s morally wrong, and another part of me thinks that it’s also morally wrong to force a woman to have a child she cannot support. Abortion should be rare, and a last resort. Thanks for asking.”
—————————————–
Are you implying that she didnt have a choice?
Wake up. Thats a line from the flake bag.
Women and Men have a choice, if they chose to have sex, and she gets pregnant, isnt that more or less the consequence of irresponsibility?
Maybe we should take away the consequence of other things, like AIDS, Syphilis, or would you suggest, forgiving drunk drivers for killing a family after driving drunk?
The real thing is, Abortion removes responsibility. If you want to go out and play around, there is no consequence when you make that mistake. The only victim is the life of the unborn child. They cant talk about it. So trample thier rights, even courts wont stand up for them, not even in America where Justice supposedly prevails.
Its like a welfare state, no? Kill the kid, go back to school, your mistake is erased….
140. js | January 19th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Now, please, tell us Diana.
What is higher, Gods Law, or Mans?
141. Casper | January 19th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
“We know that life begins on inception.”
Actually, I believe it’s conception.
“What is higher, Gods Law, or Mans?”
How many gods do you believe in? Unless you meant God’s Law.
142. Diana Powe | January 19th, 2008 at 11:06 pm<