The Enemy We Fight
February 2nd, 2008 at 08:26am Mark Noonan
If this battle isn’t worth our best effort to win, then nothing is worth fighting for:
Two women suicide bombers who have killed nearly 80 people in Baghdad were Down’s Syndrome victims exploited by al Qaida.
The explosives were detonated by remote control in a co-ordinated attack after the women walked into separate crowded markets, said the chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad General Qassim al-Moussawi.
Other officials said the women were apparently unaware of what they were doing in what could be a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert toughened security measures.
More than 70 people died and scores were wounded in the deadliest day since the US “surge” of 30,000 extra troops were sent to the capital this spring.
In the first attack, a woman detonated explosives hidden under her traditional black Islamic robe in the central al-Ghazl market. The weekly bazaar has been bombed several times since the war started but recently had re-emerged as a popular place to shop and stroll as Baghdad security improved. At least 46 people were killed and more than 100 wounded.
The second woman then struck a bird market in a predominantly Shiite area in south-eastern Baghdad killing up to 27 people and wounding 70.
I can’t think of a cost too high in order to defeat people who would victimise such innocent people. The terrorists who did this are people who, quite simply, will do anything - there is no depths they won’t plumb, no horror too inhuman for them to contemplate. Beat them now in Baghdad, or have them do the same here in the United States.
Entry Filed under: War on Terror
103 Comments
1. neocon | February 2nd, 2008 at 8:33 am
The actions of AQ in this matter are nothing short of jaw-dropping barbarity. They are the enemy of all civilization.
America has always led, and we need to continue to lead this effort to eliminate this cancerous plague upon the many decent, peaceful people around the globe.
McCain makes more sense now than at any other time, if only for his unbending determination to defeat Islamic radicalism.
2. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 8:41 am
Posts of this sort are intended to suggest that we are doing the right thing by occupying Iraq.
I would like to suggest that this is only one option, and not even the best option, for fighting AQ. Our struggle against AQ in Iraq only turned the corner when we empowered locals; more of the same is what is needed.
I reject the role of policeman to the world, and I think most Americans should think more carefully about military commitments. Neo’s statements seem to suggest that it is our job to protect decent people around the globe from AQ. I’d say it is our job to protect Americans.
3. neocon | February 2nd, 2008 at 9:05 am
Searp,
It’s our job to LEAD. And the current Iraqi efforts against AQ are because of our leadership that gave them the confidence and the courage to confront them. And it will require more leadership on our part for the rest of our peaceful global neighbors.
I find it extremely ironic how liberals intend to “improve our world standing” by advocating isolationism and only wanting to protect Americans. That’s short sighted and selfish and will only lead to more animous against our great nation.
Incidentally, the current UN mandate and the request from Iraq government for the US to remain in the country to help satablize the situation, refutes your “occupation” assertion. Please leave propaganda out of future debates.
4. keefer | February 2nd, 2008 at 10:16 am
Gee, I’m shocked! No mention of Cheney/Halliburton, searp?
neo, the same rhetoric, from the same lemmings. It’s all redundant, and they don’t understand that we’re protecting vital American and global interests by taking the fight to the enemy.
It’s no use trying to reason with a troll.
Sorry, neo, but I don’t share your sentiments about McLame…
5. neocon | February 2nd, 2008 at 10:24 am
Keef,
While not a big fan of McCain myself (I live in AZ) I do recognize the reality that my choice of either Romney or Thompson is no longer an option. Therefore, in an effort to keep either Obama or Clinton far, far away from the Oval office, I will reluctantly support McCain.
And i do like his determination to continue the fight.
6. Almiranta | February 2nd, 2008 at 10:35 am
searp, we have been asked by the Iraqis to stay until they have a government which has the resources to offer them the protection we now provide. You wild-eyed BDS Lefties can call this an “occupation” till the cows come home, but it still won’t be accurate.
These people kill because they like to kill. They have the great good fortune to have access to a religion which will not only tolerate such barbarity but which will validate it, reward it, and provide adulation for acts that civiilized societies deplore.
They are killing their own, indiscriminately. And if we leave, they will kill even more of their own, on a scale that will make Pol Pot look like a piker, make Uncle Joe Stalin look like an amateur–because they will have the pretense that mass killings are somehow justified by, or even demanded by, their religion.
You are entitled to believe that America should just stand by and allow the mass murder of millions. You are also entitled to believe that Americans can be “safe” while such barbaric actions are going on around the world, ignored by us. Just how does that work, searp?
Are Americans “safe” in such a world if we just hunker down within our own borders, trusting that vicious butchers will not penetrate those borders and hunt us down in our own country? Is this the world you long for?
A lot of us are not attracted by the bunker mentality you seem to suggest, nor by the callous (and possibly racist) disregard for human life which is not American.
I suggest that Americans would not only not be “safe” if we, the most powerful nation in the history of the world, turned a blind eye to human suffering and mass murder, we would be sending two messages; that we are weak and cowardly and that we don’t care about anyone who is not an American.
Nice country you envision, searp.
7. plainjane | February 2nd, 2008 at 10:41 am
To write such a post wingnuts must be afraid the far right movement is being proven to be a farse. Where do you start with this cherry pick list of twisted facts? Just some examples, the 1945 economy was a war time economy based on the fact millions died in a short period of time. War all the time is that what you want Mark? I believe Republican President Richard Nixon was at the helm when we bailed on Vietnam. Had Carter been willing to trade Stinger missiles for hostages as Regean was willing to do to win the 1980 election the crisis might have ended quicker. But Carter was unwilling to compromise principle. Bethelem Steel and US Steel suffered from mismanagement. Long before the seventies they began to milk every dime out of these business and place no value on investing in new steel technology and efficiencies. Mills became smaller, more efficient and moved. The eighties under Reagan created the period of “Greed is Good.” To keep up with the neighbors families took on massive debt that businesses were more than willing to supply at lone sharking interest rates. To pay off the debt both spouses went to work leaving children unsupervised and without structure. Mark, I think I can make a better argument that it was the eighties that saw the decline in family values
8. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 10:51 am
Well, maybe Almiranta has been there and actually seen what Iraq is really like, but it sure doesn’t sound like it. “The Iraqis” she refers to is a group of people that live under our protection in the IZ and that we call a government because it suits us to do so. That “government” makes agreements with us because if we left they would all be dead. They know this. We occupy Iraq, and no “agreement” with the group of dual-passport Iraqis eating at the DFAC in the IZ changes that.
I have been to Iraq, helping our soldiers, twice in the last year. I advocate tactics like empowering the locals that will actually lead to victory in the long war ahead. I do not advocate keeping our troops there fighting and dying for Iraqis.
You know, it is really, really ironic that we invaded Iraq because it was full of bad people, but that since we occupied it it is full of good people who utterly depend on our Army for their security and well-being. It is further ironic that everyone who hated all those bad people in Iraq in 2003 now think national sacrifice is absolutely required so that people in Baghdad can have the good life.
Well, if you think that I absolutely will listen to you after you return from your national service on FOB Falcon. Talk to me when you return.
9. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 am
I love the speculation, Pol Pot, etc etc. I guess we know that an even larger disaster, one with America-shaking consequences, would occur if we didn’t keep 15 BDE of our troops in Iraq.
We know this because… well, probably the same way we “know” that Saddam had nukes.
Why don’t we have troops in Darfur? Why don’t we have troops in Kenya? Why don’t we have troops in Palestine? Why don’t we have troops in, well pick it.
Nice country you belong to, Almiranta. Strap on a gun and go to Darfur, see how far that gets you.
10. Kahn | February 2nd, 2008 at 11:08 am
neocon - why isn’t he an option. WE decide. Just be sure to vote for him.
Almiranta, good to see you back. I haven’t seen you post in a while.
Has anyone else thought about the fact that searp and plainjanes posts here could be used to justify NOT stopping the Holocaust? Now thats interesting, because FDR knew about the camps and chose to not bomb the rail heads leading to them. The “liberal” view is dead children in Iraq are not our problem. We should NOT help. Interesting.
11. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 am
Has anyone thought about the fact that Kahn suggests that anytime there is a murder anywhere in the world we should send 15 combat brigades of our Army to occupy the country?
Interesting.
12. Kahn | February 2nd, 2008 at 11:12 am
Oh and searp, Sadaam deliberatly wanted people to think hge had nukes. OK, he fooled us. He tried to rob the bank with a BB gun and got killed.
But, ummmmm, why don’t YOU go to Dafur? So you’re saying we should intervene everywhere in the world EXCEPT where we think there is a crazy dictator with nuclear weapons and a dominate position (which we now hold by the way) on the Worlds oil supply? Wow. What a great national leader YOU would make.
You want Iraqi babies to die. You do, whether you realize it or not.
13. Kahn | February 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am
searp, you refer to “your” country talking to Almiranta and “our” Army talking to me. Forget to take your medicine today.
Sadaam deliberately made people think he had nukes. He kicked out the UN inspectors. He invaded two of his neighbors. He had gassed Iranians and Iraqis. He was firing on our planes daily.
But, I’m glad to see that you in fact are arguing that we should not have stopped the Holocaust. You must have been untroubled by Cambodia (probably weren’t even alive when it happened). You don’t care about the slave trade in the Sudan. Or Al Queda using retarded little girls to kill innocent civilians. Why should you?
“liberals” should forever appear in quotes from this moment forward.
14. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 11:20 am
So now we finally get to it. Having been through all the breast-beating about the poor Iraqis we get to.. oil. As Andy of Mayberry used to say, surprise, surprise.
I would say this about wanting Iraqi babies to die: unlike the other REMFs on this blog, I actually, really went to Iraq to help there, twice in the last year. So I would like to say that if you are so upset about Iraqi babies, you should try it.
They will take you, guaranteed. Just volunteer. I’d try KBR or the PX/DFAC system, they are always looking. If you wanted to be really patriotic, tell them you will go for free. Or is it that you don’t want Iraqi babies to die but are unwilling to do anything to lift a hand? The hypocrisy fumes are real thick.
15. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 am
I would like to reiterate that I cared enough about Iraq to actually do something as opposed to put on overly tight underwear and blog in discomfort.
Of course I care about Iraq, and that is the reason I advocate letting Iraqis take the lead in solving their problems. That is why I advocate pulling any troops with a combat mission out. You make the mistake of assuming that a military occupation has helped Iraq. It hasn’t. Money would help. Doctors would help. Training would help. Rolling around in MRAPS doesn’t help.
16. bagni | February 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 am
markemy
you can fight them over there all you want
but until somebody get serious about controlling u.s. borders, ships, planes, containers
you’ll fight them over here
no matter what you do over there
it’s frustrating…….why don’t earthlings take it seriously?
17. TiredofLibBullSh** | February 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
SEARP…..
Another USEFUL IDIOT for the left wing.
Sheesh, Stalin, Goebbels and Mao would have loved to have mindless twits like you to rule over.
18. Rich | February 2nd, 2008 at 12:48 pm
These are the Freedom fighters that Dailykos and libs compared to those who fought for American Indepenence. Yep, no terrorists in Iraq. Nothing to see here, please move along.
19. Mark Noonan | February 2nd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Searp,
Have you even remotely looked into what we’ve been doing in Iraq over the past year?
20. Mark Noonan | February 2nd, 2008 at 1:20 pm
bagni,
We can do much to secure our borders, but we can’ t make them airtight…the only way to defeat terrorism and free us from its threat is to go over there and change the socio-political dynamic. Its win in Iraq, or lose in Akron.
21. Ricorun | February 2nd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
ToLBS, re: comment 17… That’s downright offensive.
searp, assuming you spent the time in Iraq you claim (and I have no reason to doubt it), thank you for your service. And whether I, or anyone else, agrees with your conclusion is beside the point on that score. You performed a noble act.
At any rate, I think the central theme underlying your posts is that helping the Iraqis help themselves is a lauditory goal. Would that be correct? Also, you don’t think they way we’re currently going about it is the right way to do it. Is that also correct?
Obviously, the Iraq situation remains very complicated. And frankly, I don’t think the attacks featured in the present topic, no matter how tragic and despicable they were, adds or detracts from that fact. Neither do they add or detract from the question of whether we should stay or leave, or the timing involved. It seems to me the central question is… how best to help the Iraqis help themselves?
I appreciate your (tongue in cheek) argument that, “I guess we know that an even larger disaster, one with America-shaking consequences, would occur if we didn’t keep 15 BDE of our troops in Iraq.” You’re right — we don’t know that for sure. Then again, I think you could acknowledge that we don’t know for sure what will happen if we don’t, either. That, I would say, is the hard part. You say, “Of course I care about Iraq, and that is the reason I advocate letting Iraqis take the lead in solving their problems. That is why I advocate pulling any troops with a combat mission out. You make the mistake of assuming that a military occupation has helped Iraq. It hasn’t. Money would help. Doctors would help. Training would help. Rolling around in MRAPS doesn’t help.” What makes you so certain of that? I’m not being snarky, I honestly want to know the basis of your opinion on the question.
22. Barak | February 2nd, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Searp:I have been to Iraq, helping our soldiers, twice in the last year. I advocate tactics like empowering the locals that will actually lead to victory in the long war ahead. I do not advocate keeping our troops there fighting and dying for.
Hmmmm……..please explain! Especially the part about helping our soldiers. Who did you go with? Where did you go? What did you do to help the Iraqi’s? What did you do to help the soldiers? You talk good trash searp, please elaborate.
My brother IS a soldier! He spent 3 tours in Iraq/Afghanistan. He held the children in his arms. Spoke with and was kissed by their fathers. Was given flowers from their mothers. Took pictures in local barber shops surrounded by smiling Iraqi men, who didn’t want to cut his throat, they just want to kiss him and take pictures with him(I’ve got the proof). Killed men who didn’t really even want to fight him, but were forced by (one bad man) saddaam at the Baghdad airport upon invasion. Helped patrol neighborhoods while contractors rebuilt schools, hospitals, government builbings, saw fellow soldiers come in ripped apart by IED’s. Was heartbroken when his final tour was up, because he wanted to stay and continue to protect the people. Was pissed off over some of the political manuevers that took place during the war. Doesn’t like GB anymore (I do), but believes very strongly in the GWOT and Iraq’s part in it.
I was a Marine during Desert Storm 91′. My involvement was minimal although I was ready & willing to go liberate Kuwait and Invade Iraq to bring peace to that Region.
Now, please, expound on your involvement, and how it HELPED our soldiers!
23. bagni | February 2nd, 2008 at 2:22 pm
markalicious
borders don’t need to be ‘airtight’
but they need to be tight
and u.s. borders are loose at best
using your ‘akron’ theory
we’d be fighting in every muslim country worldwide
24. TiredofLibBullSh** | February 2nd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Searp:I have been to Iraq, helping our soldiers, twice in the last year. I advocate tactics like empowering the locals that will actually lead to victory in the long war ahead. I do not advocate keeping our troops there fighting and dying for.
Hmm…..Sounds like the Iraqi policy that Clinton proposed to get rid of Saddam. Nothing happened - evidently either Clinton was blowing smoke as usual or he got cold feet (just like the Bay of Pigs). Either way, liberal policy does not work nor has it ever.
Rico….offensive? To quote a liberal - how can something be offensive if true?
25. Mark Noonan | February 2nd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
bagni,
Not at all - fight just a few, and the rest will fall in line…Iraq is now on an upward path…the economy is growing, civil society is emerging…as Iraqis become more free, prosperous and secure, the rest of the people in that area will demand the same…they’ll start to wonder what the terrorists offer, and what their corrupt governments offer, other than a chance to kill Israelis and be killed in their turn.
26. NeoClown | February 2nd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Iraq = No Honor.
Iraq = No Glory.
27. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Mark: do you think before you write, or do you consider that your stream of consciousness must be shared with the world?
I was in Iraq last year. As I recall, the surge began in 07 and continued through the year. So yes, in fact, I do know something about the surge.
28. Mark Noonan | February 2nd, 2008 at 3:50 pm
NeoClown,
So, our troops have no honor, and they’ve earned no glory?
29. Mark Noonan | February 2nd, 2008 at 3:52 pm
searp,
Your comments show, however, that you don’t know what is going on…sorry, but on one hand I’ve got your uncorroborated testimony, and on the other hand I’ve got a dozen other first hand reports which show magnificent progress. I think I’ll go with that…
30. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Ricorun: Of course, I don’t know the future.
I am arguing that we have paid, and will continue to pay, entirely too high a price to chase around a couple of hundred foreign fighters and a bunch of very upset Iraqis. I am arguing that there is simply insufficient reason to keep paying this price. It isn’t defeat. We won, we won a long time ago.
We are staying, as far as I can figure out, for two reasons:
(1) We somehow think, although we won’t say it, that it gives us control over oil we need.
(2) The absolute inability of the President to admit to himself that he made a terrible mistake invading Iraq.
We could have withdrawn the vast bulk of our combat troops years ago, armed whatever Iraqis du jour we thought worthy, and encouraged them to do whatever they think is right for their “country”. Or not, it really doesn’t matter whether we supply arms. However, it is completely barmy to think that it is our job to rebuild Iraq to our satisfaction. Let them do it.
As to influence: well, hope springs eternal, but I don’t see where the Israeli occupation of the West Bank resulting in the right type of “influence” over the Palestinians. Why would we think our occupation will have different results? Because they love us?
Hate to disabuse everyone here, but Iraqis don’t love us. They hate and fear us, with the exception of some people in the IZ that don’t count, the important exception of some terps and others who work with us, who do count, and some expats who hope we will give them money.
31. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Mark: I don’t want to do the qualification thing here, you are welcome to believe whatever you want to believe. I was only pointing out that your question made you sound, well, not too bright.
I didn’t offer testimony, I offered an opinion based on personal experience. I have a continuing involvement in the war and support our troops to the best of my ability. That doesn’t mean I think the mission is worth a warm bucket of spit; the troops are in harm’s way and that is enough for me to help.
32. Mark Noonan | February 2nd, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Searp,
Corroborate your testimony, or what it will be is not a matter of me not being too bright, but of you appearing to come here and say whatever is necessary to denigrate the effort in Iraq.
In other words, verify yourself or people will start to doubt the veracity of your statements.
33. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Barak: thanks for your service, and that of your brother. I cannot supply details of my service. I will just say that one BCT commander gave me a coin when I left. Since you are a soldier, you know they don’t hand those out to tourists.
I never visited the IZ except to touch down on my way to a FOB. I didn’t spend much time in BIAP. I spent a lot of time on FOBs that were in the middle of the fight, and the soldiers seemed to appreciate that I was there. I lived with soldiers, ate with soldiers, worked with soldiers.
There is a diversity of opinion, even among soldiers, on Iraq-the-mission. There is less diversity of opinion on Iraqis - after all, it is mostly Iraqis that are killing our people.
34. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Mark: it is really laughable, an armchair warrior like you questioning my qualifications. Let me just put it simply: you clearly have no special qualifications at all to be commenting on Iraq. As far as I can tell, your “qualifications” come from listening diligently to Fox news when you aren’t typing.
Put some skin in the game and then get back to me.
35. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Barak: on your brother: that is pretty typical of our magnificent soldiers. They try to help when they can, and they endure a lot of hardship to do it. I can’t help thinking that those Iraqis in the barber shop aren’t worth one dead Marine.
36. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Mark: I didn’t denigrate the effort in Iraq, I denigrated the mission.
It started with Saddam and WMD; we disposed of those issues in 03 and 04. Now it would seem that a few hundred foreign fighters aided and abetted by a few thousand Iraqi criminals are tying up the bulk of the US Army. Please explain the sense of that to me.
37. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 4:55 pm
I guess everyone is tired, don’t blame them. I would like to point out that your fearless leader Mark should devote more thought to his posts.
Let’s see about his latest. I supposedly denigrated “our” effort in Iraq, which would include my own effort, where I actually, really put my butt on the line. Need I say more?
38. Barak | February 2nd, 2008 at 5:27 pm
There is a diversity of opinion, even among soldiers, on Iraq-the-mission. There is less diversity of opinion on Iraqis - after all, it is mostly Iraqis that are killing our people. Searp
You are dead wrong about this, and any experienced soldier will tell you that. Iraqi’s are killing Iraqi’s. Iranian, Jordanian, and an assortment of other ian’s are the ones killing our soldiers. This is where you….and most soldiers part ways. We are killing and being killed by terrorist, not Iranaians, Iraqi’s, etc……..TERRORISTS.
I can’t help thinking that those Iraqis in the barber shop aren’t worth one dead Marine. searp
Once again, we part ways. My brother put his neck on the line for you (someone he doesn’t know, and probably wouldn’t care for), for me (someone he loves), and for those Iraqi’s (someone he doesn’t know again). Those Marines go into this knowing the risk they are taking and being OK with this in their heart.
Your mentality is like that of the city of Berkeley. [They don't have minds of their own, they can't think for themselves so the military tricks them and uses them].
Sorry bro, doesn’t work like that. If I die for a Kuwaiti, an Iraqi, an American liberal, or my family, I HAVE excepted that and live by that. But to die protecting my brother (fellow soldier) is what gets us through the weak times. The times when bigotry, hate, despair take over our minds.
I cannot supply details of my service. I will just say that one BCT commander gave me a coin when I left. Since you are a soldier, you know they don’t hand those out to tourists.Searp
Lol! Sorry, maybe it’s been to long since I got out, but I have NO idea what coin your talking about. I never got a coin! What the hell!
Basically, your [duck] leaves you lame. You have NO credibility (well, at least, no more than you claim Mark has). You might as well quit claiming your service puts you on some higher tier than everyone else.
I don’t claim that, because my details are irrelevent. I base my opinion upon what I see, hear, and experience. But that doesn’t make me better or more informed than you.
Now a soldier, they can have a wack perspective too, because they also base there OPINION upon what they see, hear, and experience. But, my opinion, is that the soldiers perspective tends to be a clearer perspective.
Polls are B.S., stereotypes are B.S., Our egotisticle idea that we stand above some one elses opinion is B.S. It’s just an Opinion based upon what we see, hear, and experience. Your experience can be different from someone elses experience.
Mark: I didn’t denigrate the effort in Iraq, I denigrated the mission. Searp
The Effort is the Mission!
39. Kahn | February 2nd, 2008 at 5:49 pm
It’s OK searp has made his case.
Dead Iraqis including children?
Not his concern.
Using retarded children as bombers?
Not his concern.
Millions dead in Cambodia we refused to help?
Not his concern.
Millions dead in Hitlers ovens?
Not his concern.
Played it right down the line EXACTLY as the Democratic leadership has.
40. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Barack: the only thing I claimed is first-hand knowledge, which I have. I guess the Marines don’t hand out coins. Ask a soldier.
You are incorrect about who is killing our soldiers. I live this, every day, and have for more than 18 months. Read Martha Raddatz’s book on the fight in Sadr City.
We didn’t part ways, we never agreed.
I don’t need to go ask an experienced soldier, remember, that last year I lived with them, ate with them, and worked with them. In Iraq. Evidently, nobody else writing comments here can say as much. You have decided what that is worth; now square that with denigrating the effort. I made an effort, and it seems as if nobody else writing comments did.
On credibility: well, if you choose to put great stock in the opinions of someone who has no first hand experience, clearly has difficulty thinking analytically, and hasn’t done anything more than write a blog when he would clearly be able to help in more concrete ways, well, that is your choice.
Um, effort and mission are not the same, whether or not you capitalize the words. I hope your head doesn’t explode when I say I am involved in the effort and think the mission is crap.
41. Jeremiah | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:00 pm
the mission is crap.
That’s your problem.
Too many good people out there who see America as a Great Nation. And want to see us win.
–Jeremiah–
42. Casper | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Barak,
I have two daughters and a future son-in-law who served a combined 5 tours in Iraq. All three are very proud of the jobs the performed, yet all of them are for pulling out our troops tomorrow.
And no the effort is not the mission.
43. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Kahn: I didn’t say anything about concern, I said something about the policy in Iraq. Of course I am concerned about atrocities. Do I think that justifies sending 18 BCTs to Iraq? No.
Is it humanitarianism and concern about babies that drives us to base 18 BCTs, about a billion armored vehicles and a million Apaches in Iraq? Is it a need to re-make Iraq into a tranquil, democratic paradise? Is it oil?
As for Cambodia, well, I don’t recall saying anything at all about Cambodia, that is your own embellishment. I don’t recall saying anything about Hitler either, is this recitation of historical crimes against humanity supposed to mean something or just stir your blood?
Let me say on the record: I am against crimes against humanity. I am also a patriot and believe in our right, even obligation, to speak up. Finally, I do not think what happened in Cambodia or in WWII has anything at all to do with what we are doing in Iraq.
44. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Jeremiah: nope, I think at this point the problem is yours. People see through all the crap and spend time thinking about what is good for the country as opposed to good for W’s “legacy”.
45. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Casper: I am proud of them and their service, and I am proud of the service of all of our soldiers, whether I agree with them or not. That is what keeps me going.
I must say I am far less proud of politicians, particularly chickenhawks. War is hell, and sometimes I think our leadership kind of figured this out on the job, as it were.
46. Jeremiah | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:15 pm
and spend time thinking about what is good for the country
What’s good for the country?
–Jeremiah–
47. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Jeremiah: A great nation doesn’t need capital letters. A great nation is admired around the world. A well led nation would never have invaded Iraq.
48. Jeremiah | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:19 pm
A great nation doesn’t need capital letters.
Maybe I just wanted to capitalize a Great Nation…What is your problem with it?
–Jeremiah–
49. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Well, spending 3.2 trillion of borrowed money to base our Army in Iraq as opposed to, say, intensifying the hunt for AQ leadership and destroying AQ in Afghanistan strikes me as extraordinarily foolish, so I guess that is not good for the country.
As to what we’d do with the extra money and lives, I think anything but waste them.
50. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:20 pm
I quibbled about your capitalization because I was afraid you were going to go all Victor David Hanson on me
51. Jeremiah | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:25 pm
I quibbled about your capitalization because I was afraid you were going to go all Victor David Hanson on me
LOL!
Sounds to me like you’ve done lost it! You sound like ol watcha callit, keefer calls him Kookspinach for Kucinich or the other one Ron Paul.
–Jeremiah–
52. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:27 pm
BTW, I think I pointed out that we won years ago. We got rid of the non-existent WMD and made sure Saddam was gone. Those were the rationales for the invasion.
So Jeremiah, be at ease. We won.
53. Kahn | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:28 pm
No, it’s OK searp. We get it. By concern you mean hand-ringing. Troops means action. We get it.
FDR refused to intercede in the Holocaust because he didn’t want to detrac from the war effort. Democrats stymied helping in Cambodia after the Viet Nam fiasco because dammit, they just were not going back into SouthEast Asia no matter what was happening. And YOU want out of Iraq and damn the consequences (your kids also Casper).
It’s OK - we get it. You not only argue that our scenarios are wrong. They argue that even if correct they are irrelevant. We get it. Read your own posts.
We get it. We just want to point out that in your opinion our troops should not help protect Iraqi children despite the fact that WE toppled their government, destroyed their social fabric, and are not done helping the replacements form.
Jeeezzz. Stand up for your own arguments will you? You “care”, but not enough to do anything about it. We get it.
54. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Jeremiah: I do? I have very little experience with those two gentlemen, but from what little I have seen Ron Paul is fixated on the gold standard and Kucinich, well, I don’t think I have heard him say anything. Your diction changed, are you all right?
55. Barak | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Searp,
on your degrading of Mr. Noonan, why the hell do you come back if you are all knowing and he knows nothing? Maybe you should start your own blog.
Casper,
I think you should read the part I wrote on opinions. Whats yours is yours and mine is mine. My opinion doesn’t make me any better, smarter, more educated, etc. than you, your daughters or son-in-law(future).
My brothers opinion differs from yours and your family. So what!!! It very literally means NOTHING. Once again, your opinion, my opinion, their opinion is based upon what we see, hear, and experience. What people see, hear, and experience can be VERY different from their hootch mate. Opinion mean very little to the Mission, but can absolutely annihilate the effort. The effort is to complete the mission.
Casper & Searp, Please define the mission vs. the effort for us.
56. Barak | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:33 pm
A great nation doesn’t need capital letters.
Maybe I just wanted to capitalize a Great Nation…What is your problem with it?
–Jeremiah–
Jeremiah, I am getting the message, that anything Searp doesn’t say, condone, or experience himself is either wrong or non-existent. So just make sure you only capitalize the words that searp says to capitalize. This is his blog you know!
57. Jeremiah | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:37 pm
So just make sure you only capitalize the words that searp says to capitalize.
No, I’m Afraid That Won’t Be The Case!
You Have A Nice Day … Sir!
–Jeremiah–
58. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Kahn: I just don’t know what you are talking about. If you are a historian, write a book.
I think you finally get around to the point towards the end. We didn’t destroy the Iraqi social fabric, which is very resilient and based on ethnicity, tribe and sect.
As for the child protection mission, if that is why you think we are there, I suggest you re-think. I didn’t see child protection in the AUMF. I haven’t even heard our addled president talk about child protection as job one.
Here is my argument: it is foolish to base our Army in Iraq, at great cost in borrowed money and, even worse, lives. Our lives. Iraqi lives. We can chase around AQ much as we do in Afghanistan, with an appropriately sized force, while Iraqis have fun with each other and figure out where they are going. They are doing this anyway, believe me.
The idea that someone could consider the holocaust that has happened in Iraq to be humanitarian boggles my mind. Hundreds of thousands dead. 2M refugees, including much of the middle and upper class.
I say that nothing that could happen after we leave wouldn’t happen anyway. I say that Iraqis not only deserve freedom but have the responsibility to figure this out for themselves. I say that it is way too late, at least for me, for people who support this war to be talking about humanitarianism.
59. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Jeremiah: please capitalize all you want, I was wrong to deny you your pleasure.
I would never claim ownership of this blog. Under no conceivable circumstances. I visit occasionally to see what people are saying and thinking, which I believe is the point. I participate in the conversation. I try to be polite even if I fail sometimes. I resist ad hominem devices but reserve the right to respond in kind. I don’t use capitals unless my grade school teacher would approve.
60. Casper | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Kahn,
You can’t prove that things will get worse if we leave anymore than you can prove things will get better if we stay. Over 70 people died with our troops there. How do you know they wouldn’t be alive if we had left a year ago?
61. Barak | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Jeremiah,
You do recognize sarcasm now don’t you?
62. Kahn | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:51 pm
searp said “I just don’t know what you are talking about.” Well now, that makes the rest of his post mute. Doesn’t it?
searp makes the same do nothing, not our problems that Democrats have used before to horrific end. Not our problem.
Of course stopping violence and promoting peacful coexistence is protecting children. This particular string is in fact about despicable people using retarded children to murder, and to die in the process.
What do you care? You’ve sais what you want. Get out now. I just ad “…and damn the consequences.” Behind it. Am I wrong? Is that not your position boiled down to a sentence?
Oh, and you could read up on FDR’s decisions about the Holocaust and the Killing Fields of Cambodia. They were major events in human history. It is difficult to argue with someone who PROUDLY proclaims their ignorance.
63. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Barak: I questioned his comments and his reliability ….blah, blah, blah I don’t want to verify myself…(Ed. Note; you’re making rather large claims of insight. Provide verification)
64. Mark Noonan | February 2nd, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Searp,
I’m not questioning your qualifications - for all I know you’re a regular Audie Murphy…but I am insistent upon you verifying yourself.
When Michael Yon makes a report from Iraq, he provides the units he was with, the villages and towns he visited, the dates when things happened, the names of the soldiers he was with (limited, of course, by the needs of security), the names of the Iraqis he dealt with…you come here and say you were in Iraq in 2007 and thus are qualified to render a first-hand judgement. Perhaps you are, but it is up to you to provide the verifiable stories as background for your claims.
And I mean, really, you have to provide them, if you wish to continue commenting on this blog.
65. Jeremiah | February 2nd, 2008 at 7:02 pm
You do recognize sarcasm now don’t you?
Barak,
Yeah, I seen that. Searp comes in a feeble attempt to state his opinions when he can clearly see the Socialism involved in those opinions. He should find a new teacher. LOL!
–Jeremiah–
66. Casper | February 2nd, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Mark,
If you are going to require that of Searp, shouldn’t you do the same for Barak? Or do you only question the qualifications of those you disagree with?
67. Barak | February 2nd, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Searp is a FRAUD!
The only reason he would need to be silent about his 18 months (yah right) in Iraq, is if he was apart of covert ops, intelligence unit, etc. (and he wouldn’t be blogging about it, at all). He doesn’t need to withold his credentials. blah, blah, blah!
68. Mark Noonan | February 2nd, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Casper,
Barak’s claims are confirmed by other, independent reports from Iraq - Searp is being the contrarian, and thus it is incumbant upon him/her to make the claim believable.
Should be a very simple thing - but if someone is going to come on our blog and tell me where to get off, then that person better be in a proper position to do so. House rules, as it were.
FOLLOW UP: You know, Casper, I am a person - not just an anonymous provider of blogging. My name is Mark Edward Noonan - really, that is my name. You know my name, you know what part of the country I live in…I’ve invited you and the rest here into my life to participate in a discussion about the issues of the day.
Who is searp? What does that stand for? What is his/her real name? Where does he/she live? What has he/she done in service to you, here on this blog we’ve all come to? Searp is just another one of the critics, and that is not a problem - but am I to take brag and insult without responding? True enough, my religion commands me to patience and to show love towards those who are abusive towards me…but if I’m going to be abused, then I’m at least going to demand that the person doing the abusing prove himself.
69. Barak | February 2nd, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Casper, I am not using any experience of my own to shoot down your ideals. I think you need to read my posts a little slower and more clearly. I really don’t have a problem telling you of my credentials to this subject, accept, I DON”T HAVE ANY! Read my lips!
I have blogged with you many times before Casper, you seemed to have aged a bit as I took my sabatical. 2 words. Read slower!
70. Casper | February 2nd, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Mark,
It’s your blog.
71. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Kahn: it is “moot” not “mute”. I didn’t say anything about your history lessons except that they are irrelevant. Why not talk about the Mongols sacking Baghdad and say this this has an important bearing on our invasion of Iraq.
Mark: I am not going to further identify myself on the Internet…blah, blah, blah I won’t do it, because I can’t or, if I can verify that I was in Iraq, it would be verification that I wasn’t in a position to observe the broad trends…(Ed. Note; we understand your fearfulness here…but we also won’t pay your opinions on Iraq the sligthest mind as you’ve given us a clear reason to discount them).
72. searp | February 2nd, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Barak: you have no basis for calling me a fraud except that you disagree with me.
73. Barak | February 2nd, 2008 at 8:02 pm
My disagreeing with you is MOOT. I call you a fraud because of your cocky, self serving, and you don’t lend any kind of substance to this thread nor this site. That is my OPINION based on your posts on other threads as well as this one.
74. Mark Noonan | February 2nd, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Casper,
Its not even that - I love doing this, I really do…heck, I love doing it so much that it sometimes cramps other things I love to do. But I’m also a human being, deserving of the respect all human being are entitled by simple fact of their humanity.
For someone to come here and insult me - I can’t see the wisdom in that, nor the worth.
75. SEW | February 2nd, 2008 at 8:08 pm
“Mark: I am not going to further identify myself on the Internet.” searp
“Barak: you have no basis for calling me a fraud except that you disagree with me.”
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. You come across more like a Berkeley city councilmember, yet I have no basis other than similar comments made by you.
At least you can try to fool someone on the internet. And Hillary can run on her experience but not produce her archived evidence. And John Kerry can call the Swiftboat Vets liars, yet he refuses to provide his military record. Thus we have no basis to question them either?
More Kool Aid anyone?
76. Casper | February 2nd, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Mark,
Since searp won’t provide any details, I’m going to agree with you on this one. I have a problem with anyone that’s not willing to tell the truth regardless of politics. My apologies.
77. Mark Noonan | February 2nd, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Casper,
I’m probably being harsher on searp than I should be - a little cranky today, and I’ve really been the brunt of lefty attacks this past week…heck, even my stalker seems to have gotten back in the act. I guess I’m just in no mood to play games.
As it is, to get it back on subject, things are uneven in Iraq - some areas are peaceful as all get out, others barely hold down the violence on a day to day basis…but, in my view, its clear we’ve worked out the way to bring peace and freedom to Iraq, and that is key to winning the War on Terrorism: provide hope for a better tomorrow to the people of the Arab/Moslem world. To cynically pull out now would be, in some sense, even worse than the betrayal of the South Vietnamese in 1975.
78. Kahn | February 2nd, 2008 at 8:37 pm
searp said “Kahn: it is “moot” not “mute”. ” Ohhh excuse me. I bet the other regulars at the bath house get so mad at you for correcting their spelling all the time!
A pattern of liberal inaction that has allowed genocide IS relevant. I don’t even care about your non-existent credentials. You DO say get out now, right? Justifications aside, that IS your position. Right?
So I just say… and damn the consequences.
I wonder if you’ll be able to respond? Oh well.
79. Ricorun | February 2nd, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Mark: Barak’s claims are confirmed by other, independent reports from Iraq - Searp is being the contrarian, and thus it is incumbant upon him/her to make the claim believable.
Actually, there are a large number of people who have stood up to be counted with searp’s “contrarian view” — generals on down to privates. That doesn’t make those views necessarily right, but it doesn’t make them necessarily wrong, either. The same with opinions on the other side. I was interested in knowing what searp’s specific experiences were — who he interacted with and on what level. If he doesn’t want to say, that’s a shame. But that only puts him in the same boat most of the rest of us are in, which is to say looking through a glass darkly. Some of us have family, friends, and loved ones that have served over there at one time or another, or indeed are serving. But whatever the time frame, that in itself colors our opinions (there is no way not to be affected by their stories). But that in itself doesn’t necessarily give us a truer understanding of the overall picture. Grittier certainly, but not truer. Whatever the specific circumstances, the fact remains that even first-hand opinions are not monolithic.
I think it is also necessary to point out that unless a first-hand source is well up the CoC, their opinion is far more relevant to the tactical situation, not the strategic situation. And I have to say, there are relatively few in the top echelons of the CoC whose opinions are anywhere close to as rosy as yours tend to be. There are a few yes — especially when they’re on-record — but it is not anywhere close to a “concensus opinion”.
By the way, the distinction between the tactical and the strategic is how I’d define the distinction between the effort and the mission, respectively. But I’m only speaking for myself in that regard.
A third point is this: there has been an up-tick in violence in the past month, basically ever since the passage of the “de-Baathification amnesty law”. That may be a coincidence. Then again, maybe not. Anyway, the connection is there. And there is going to have to be a further draw-down in the coming months. And I suppose that it should be pointed out that though the law was passed, it has not yet been enacted. If and when it is, and if another increase in violence follows it, then we’ll have two data points.
At any rate, and as I’ve said before many times… it’s way too soon to be planning a victory parade. That doesn’t mean we should not recognize and appreciate the tactical security progress, nor diminish the heartache and disgust we may feel when tragedies do occur (and will continue to occur). But I think we need to remain realistic about what is happening, and try to understand it in those terms as best we can.
80. Kahn | February 2nd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Not bad Rico.
I think people need to look beyond just Iraq. Iran stopped their nuclear weapons program almost immediately after we invaded Iraq. So did Libya, and finally so did North Korea. Now, they are all still complete bastards and I wouldn’t trust any of them further than I could lob a grenade. Any of them. And some of our erstwhile friends also. But for now, we sit in a vastly strategic chair in the mid-east. And, our resolve to act despite internal discussion has been proven.
We are in Europe. We are in South Korea and Japan. We are in Afghanistan. And we are in Iraq and several neighboring countries. If you are a little tin pot dictator with dreams of regional domination, you just can’t ignore that. Last one who did got his neck stretched.
Is it nice? Certainly not. Is it effective? Well, yes. If you count stopping nuke programs in four hostile nations as effective - it is.
And there are other effects. Think about this; when Israel went into Lebanon last time, Lebanon did not get any help from Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Iran. There was covert aid, certainly. But no way was Syria going to launch an invasion with Israel on one side and the combined US Air Force, Navy aviation, and Marine Aviation arms sitting on their border being not all that busy.
Our presence is having is a calming effect on the area. Oh, OK a crazy woman and a retarded girl can kill civilians in a market in Baghdad. That sucks - yes. But Iraq can’t send tank divisions into anywhere. And neither can Syria, or even Saudi Arabia. For all the noise from Iran - they are impotent as far as military force projection is concerned.
The regional view and the world view must be taken into effect. And it is important to look beyond rhetoric to actual actions and possibilities. Again, Iran as an example. We have forces in every country bordering Iran. Afghanistan, Turkmenistan (who knew?), Turkey, Iraq, and Kuwait (not an actual shared border, but close). We also have forces in multiple nations in the gulf and are passing military supplies through Pakistan. And then, of course there’s the Navy. Just how tough can they REALLY get before they’d be crushed? Really?
I’m not advocating attacking Iran. I’m just pointing out that we have the whole region in checkmate at this moment. And that actually is something to think about.
81. Almiranta | February 2nd, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Thanks, Kahn. Unlike some of the current pros posting here, cutting and pasting right out of the little red book, I work for a living, and as Global Warming has passed my part of the world by, I am moving tons of snow every single day so my livestock can be fed. That is, LITERALLY tons, and literally every single day.
Searp proves that some people will always see the world through their own personal filters, no matter what the objective truth might be. He claims to have lived among the troops, yet he speaks so disdainfully of them and their mission—it makes you wonder. And let’s face it, anyone who makes THIS peculiar claim is hardly going to generate a lot of credibility: “… about a billion armored vehicles and a million Apaches in Iraq….” Wow. I certainly never knew we even HAD anything close to “…a million Apaches…” in total, much less in Iraq. Where do they put the people?
Yes, searp is passionate. Yes, searp might even be dedicated enough to have served as he claims. But on the other hand searp makes wild claims, refuses to acknowledge any position but the one he evidently took to Iraq with him, and sometimes writes very much like a high school sophomore trying to impress people with his vainglorious tales. So who knows?
The very fact that he denies that wholesale slaughter would take place if we were to leave Iraq now pretty much defines his grasp of objective reality. And aside from Iraq, he is uniformly radical and far far Left. It helps to know where a man sits before he tells you where he stands, and clearly his stance on Iraq is strongly influenced by his overall political position.
82. searp | February 3rd, 2008 at 6:59 am
(Ed. Note: Deleted as commenter has not provided the required verification of his alleged expertise)
83. searp | February 3rd, 2008 at 7:15 am
(Ed. Note: Deleted as commenter has not provided the required verification of his alleged expertise)
84. searp | February 3rd, 2008 at 7:23 am
(Ed. Note: Deleted as commenter has not provided the required verification of his alleged expertise)
85. searp | February 3rd, 2008 at 7:36 am
Mark:
I questioned your expertise on the war…blah, blah, blah but I’ll claim expertise and not provide you any references which could allow you to make a rational judgement on my claim to such expertise…(Ed. Note: As we said, provide verification, or no more comments).
86. searp | February 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 am
(Ed. Note: Deleted as commenter has not provided the required verification of his alleged expertise)
87. js | February 3rd, 2008 at 11:52 am
Who is the enemy.
This is a good one mark. Im so surprised of the superflourous posts on it.
In he Middle East, by the 6th Century, Christianity had conquered the Roman empire with mere words. No huge invasion, no Army, no genocide. Just through the words of Jesus. It had spread from modern day Morrocco, past modern day Iran, north through Turkey, and by the 10th century, most of Europe.
Then along came Islam. Islams growth came by the sword, and forced conversion. Muslims tell us there is no compulsion in thier religion, however, there religion dictates that they should not befriend you if you are no muslim, in fact, they are taught to fight them (non muslims) until they submit to Islam. Tens of millions of Christians had been slaughterd before the 1st Crusade, and after Christians turned the muslim hordes from the north, they took Byzantine, and headed east, where they kill over a hundred million Hindu and Buddists, over the following 8 centuries.
In our modern times, we dont concentrate on the threat that Islam was. We pretty we forgot about most of the distasteful facts after WWI and WWII and Korea and Viet Nam. We pretty much forgot what the truth in Islam is, what our fathers fathers fought for, and thier fathers. Islam, throughout the last 1800 years, was responsible for more deaths than any cause in the world ever produced.
Who is our enemy but those who would take away our freedom to chose right from wrong? In the Islamic religion, Sharia is the law. Any nation not under Sharia is the enemy of Islam, they are all in dar ul’harb, or, the house of war. Only those nations under the house of peace/submission remain at peace in the Islamic society. These people are compelled by thier religion to fight us.
This is why al quaeda exists. This was why the Taliban existed, and refused to deliver bin Laden to Justice.
Islam is not just a religion, it dictates not only a social way of life, but a government as well. What we heard about in Iraq, what we hear in Iran, Syria, Somalia, Egypt, is what they want us to be.
Take this seriously, if we dont, we dont deserve to be free men.
88. searp | February 3rd, 2008 at 12:51 pm
So here are the people that we are supposed to accept as having keen insights into the war…blah, blah, blah I’m not sinless but I’ll go right ahead and cast that first stone…(Ed. Note: Did you really think we’re just going to make this a forum for insults?).
89. SEW | February 3rd, 2008 at 1:06 pm
“Sorry I wasted my time here” searp
Audios bubba.
90. Kahn | February 3rd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
searp refuses to allow that Democrats refused to stop or hunder the Holocaust or Cambodia. He claims to have seen “wholesale slaughter”. I guess it’s in how you define things. And he refuses to acknowledge that by dominating the area and getting hostile nations to stop building atomic bombs aimed at us, we have in fact won and are continuing to win.
It is only ignorance of atomic weapons (strange considering his claims) that would make someone refuse to acknowledge this.
No searp, we don’t believe you. IF what you say is true, IF you were there fixing the network or insatlling computers then fine. BUT, you were not a soldier. Insert excuse here. And even with your supposed experience - if you can’t see that dominating that area to calm it (which I demonstrated, we have) and to stop people from nuking New York, then you are just well, I hate to say it… stupid.
91. Kahn | February 3rd, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Oh, though maybe I’ll post that in five or six consecutive posts to drive it home. You pip.
92. FmrMarine | February 3rd, 2008 at 1:47 pm
AHHHHHHH
islam…the “religion” of PIECES
93. js | February 3rd, 2008 at 2:04 pm
As it stands, most of these “peaceful” nuclear programs were totally secret until caught by someone somehow somewhere.
Just like the Paki proliferation steps, which was left in a state of total deniablility.
I dont think Iran slowed down, or stopped anything. I think they just dug in deeper, hid more, and denied twice as often. The UN is not allied with the USA, as a matter of fact, within its General Assembly, some of the most blatant anti US discussions have occured.
Its just a matter of time before some tyrant gets a bomb. We cant consider what we will do after its too late. To the best of anyones intelligence, we can only agree on speculation. The one we cant prepare for is the one we dont know about, and this is a big world.
94. searp | February 3rd, 2008 at 3:17 pm
I love it…blah,blah, blah but I still won’t do the very simple thing of verifying myself and, dammit, it makes me mad that I’m not allow to run this blog as my personal soapbox…(Ed. Note; why bother? Why not just do what we asked?)
95. searp | February 3rd, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Hey buddy…blah, blah, blah I prefer to hurl insults rather than be reasonable…
96. searp | February 3rd, 2008 at 3:33 pm
I’m not hurling insults…blah, blah, blah, I’m just hurling insults and saying that I’m not and even though you don’t respond in kind I’m still going to keep it up…
97. searp | February 3rd, 2008 at 4:36 pm
You deserve insults…blah, blah, blah…(Ed. Note: While it is true that if we treated each man as he deserves none of us would ’scape whipping, we here at Blogs for Victory fail to see the use of insults in our debates).
98. Kahn | February 3rd, 2008 at 5:49 pm
searp, shut up and go away if you can’t actually ad anything. Is that clear enough for ya?
99. searp | February 3rd, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Kahn: I am adding something…blah, blah, blah yes, adding something, but nothing to the debate…
100. Kahn | February 3rd, 2008 at 10:46 pm
So, spamming is what you have to resort to? ideas won’t cut it?
And not a single liberal poster condemns him. Not one. Well, well, well.
101. searp | February 4th, 2008 at 6:39 am
So it is spam to point out the disgusting hypocrisy of young military age males who treat each other to steak dinners at Mortons and spend the rest of their time suggesting that no sacrifice is too great for others to go fight in Iraq?
It isn’t spam, it is outrage.
102. Kahn | February 4th, 2008 at 8:50 am
military age? Ummm - you are an idiot. Mark is an old fart Navy veteran. And you are a government contractor network security geek. A geek who is causing a problem people pay you to fix. A typical Democrat, by the way.
G.F.Y.
103. searp | February 4th, 2008 at 9:08 am
People way older than Mark are actually, really serving their country. This is a fact. Mark is a decade younger than I am, the Army had no problem sending me. Good old Matt is almost half my age. Both have gotten fat attacking their fellow citizens, some of whom actually, really sacrifice and fight. What do you call that?
Now as to your characterization: well, Kahn, I am not a government contractor network security geek, but I suppose all such people who are actually, really serving in Iraq must be vile creatures to you?
Abhorrent and repellent.