Building on Success in Iraq
February 6th, 2008 at 07:25am Mark Noonan
While we’ve been concentrating on the trivialities of politics, our troops have been doing the real work:
MOSUL — Piles of concrete rubble, rows of rusted vehicles, busted water lines and local snipers are just a few of the obstacles U.S. and Iraqi Soldiers are overcoming to build a combat outpost in one of Mosul’s most dangerous neighborhoods.
U.S. Army Soldiers from Killer Troop, 3rd Squadron, 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment, based out of Ft. Hood, Texas, and members of the 2nd Battalion, 2nd Brigade, 2nd Iraqi Army (IA) Division teamed up Jan. 19 with the U.S. Army’s 43rd Combat Engineer Company and 77th Engineer Company to build Combat Outpost Killer, also known as COP “Rabiya,” which means “springtime” in Arabic.“Security is the word,” said Capt. Peter Norris, commanding officer of Killer Troop. “Up until now this part of town has had little to no coverage. We’re looking to increase the Coalition presence here.”
As part of the ongoing counterinsurgency strategy in Iraq, the U.S. military has sought to partner with Iraqi security forces and move off the larger bases into smaller outposts in local neighborhoods. The close proximity not only decreases response time to emergency situations but allows the Coalition more opportunities to interact with the local population, Soldiers said.
“This intersection and this whole little neighborhood has been a hotbed of SIGACTS,” said Sgt. 1st Class Ronald Corella, using the military abbreviation for significant actions, a term given to all critical incidents which need to be reported. “What we’re trying to do is close the gap between some of our other COPs, put some Soldiers in here and catch the bad guys.”
Whatever you do, don’t forget about those magnificent men and women we’ve got over in Iraq - Hillary and Obama want to end this; the left thinks the war already lost…but a war is going on, and our best are over there winning it for us. As we go about our day to day, remember them in your prayers; and remember what is at stake in how we decide Campaign ‘08.
Meanwhile, all else aside, have you done anything for the troops lately? Perhaps a trip over to America Supports You is in order?
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Patriotism, War on Terror
60 Comments
1. Choose.Life.Not.War | February 6th, 2008 at 7:35 am
OK EVERYONE, SUPPORT THE TROOPS
2. coulterfan | February 6th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Mark conveniently forgets …blah, blah, blah that I don’t want to talk about what is happening in Iraq because it makes me look like a fool….
3. Fredrik Ingemarsson | February 6th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Speaking for myself as a Swedish rightwinger , i believe that America and its allies took the right decision to oust the neandertal taleban regime and their likeminded neanderthal ideological
ally in Iraq Saddam Hussein .
Why the morally bankrupt Left wants to abandon Afghanistan to the talebans and Iraq to al - qaida
and its likeminded idelogical ally in Iran is beyond me .
Wait i have it , perhaps the Left is to spineless to stand up to tyranny and misery .
Perhaps the Left believes the West should give up its freedom to the jihadists.
The Left sickens me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Down with Hillary and the empty suit Obama !!!!
GO , McCAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4. neocon | February 6th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Mark,
Let’s start calling this mission for what it currently is; an ISF assisted security mission. While our military is in the process of securing the safety and liberty of our long-oppressed global neighbors and demonstrating the benevolency of America, the Democrats are using that very security of theirs as a political football. And they’re the party that wants to improve our global standing. Ironic.
5. OhioOrrin | February 6th, 2008 at 11:06 am
good - ’bout time to move the surge into mosul & therein support our true allies, the kurds.
we still gotta figure out how to split-up the oil revenues & tamp-down the kurdish rebels cross-border activity into turkey.
but a good next step in the defeat of AQI.
6. Choose.Life.Not.War | February 6th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Deleted - off topic
7. JD | February 6th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Aahh yes… Progress… blah, blah, blah I won’t honor the efforts of our troops, I won’t honor the efforts of our troops, I won’t honor the efforts of our troops…I just want to hate, hate, hate….
8. Choose.Life.Not.War | February 6th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Off topic Mark ?? …blah, blah, blah I just want to hate, hate, hate…
9. Choose.Life.Not.War | February 6th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Mark:
It’s one thing to …blah, blah, blah, I won’t take a hint…
10. Choose.Life.Not.War | February 6th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Hey Mark ..
Choose life…
11. Choose.Life.Not.War | February 6th, 2008 at 11:59 am
I hate, hate, hate …and I never think, think, think…(Ed. Note: I’ve got far more edit than you’ve got idiot)
12. Mark Noonan | February 6th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Choose,
We thank you for your support of the troops!
13. Mark Noonan | February 6th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Ohio,
I agree - it has been a long process, but it is great that our troops are really taking the fight to the enemies of freedom and humanity. Its just a pity so many people locked themselves up into a hate-Bush world and thus cannot give proper honor to our troops, who have covered themselves with glory.
14. Joe | February 6th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
RE: …(Ed. Note: I’ve got far more edit than you’ve got idiot)
Now THAT is a funny comment. Good one Mark. Not sure what he said, but that was funny on your part.
Anyway… I never understaood why Repubs say it is Dems that don’t support the troops. Dems most certainly do. In fact, Dems support the troops AFTER they come home from battle as well as while in battle.
Anyway… since the Iraqis are doing so well in stepping up, can we finally start stepping down? We’ve been hearing for a long while now that the Iraqis are starting to take more of a lead.
15. Choose.Life.Not.War | February 6th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Uh oh Joe..blah, blah, blah…
16. Joe | February 6th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
I think this comment by Levin is very appropriate to the Iraq occupation…
17. SteaM | February 6th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Mark,
I realize and understand that you have control of your own blog and the comments that are posted or not posted.
However, you let people say some pretty ugly stuff on here. Even some very off topic stuff. Does it look like you are defending your personal viewpoints that are under attack and some of the attackers may have very good points that go against your views too much that you must “delete” them to make them go away?
18. NeoClown | February 6th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Deleted - insults the magnificent men and women of the United States armed forces.
19. coulterfan | February 6th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
…blah,blah, blah…I come here to hate, I don’t pay for the blog, I don’t add anything of use to the debate, I just sh** all over the place and get mad when I’m called to account…
20. SteaM | February 6th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
21. Mark Noonan | February 6th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
SteaM,
This is a post about the success in Iraq and the way we’re building on it - its not a post for leftwing hate-mongers to rehash all the reasons they hate President Bush, the mission in Iraq and the troops we sent there.
And your Military Times poll is bogus - its a self-selected poll which includes people who are not in the military at the time the poll was taken…
22. coulterfan | February 6th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Good luck with the election, Mark!
23. Middle East » Blog &hellip | February 6th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
[...] wheelsofterr wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptAs part of the ongoing counterinsurgency strategy in Iraq, the US military has sought to partner with Iraqi security forces and move off the larger bases into smaller outposts in local neighborhoods. The close proximity not only … [...]
24. DM | February 6th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Thanks Mark – Hopefully a continued editing effort will minimize the garbage posted by those few intending to diminish the value of your blog and the rest of the participants input.
25. Mark Noonan | February 6th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
coulter,
Thanks! I didn’t know you were looking forward to John McCain’s victory as well - but its nice to have you on board.
26. Mark Noonan | February 6th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
DM,
Just tired of it - I could, of course, just remove the coments, but I decided that it works better this way. The futility of it all, plus the fact that I turn them into things which work towards my advantage, wears them out after a while.
As per usual, we encourage lively debate, but debate isn’t just a flame war of lefties coming here to be nasty…
27. Mark Noonan | February 6th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Joe,
But the political compromises are happening and a civil society is building up in Iraq - not a perfect one, but one which is far better than anyone else in the entire Moslem world has…
28. Mark Noonan | February 6th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Joe,
And its not an occupation - the US forces are there at the express invitation of the very first legitmate government to ever exist in that are since the dawn of history…we can’t occupy where we’re wanted…
29. Joe | February 6th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Other than the Baathists law that passed, what other political compromises have been completed?
And as for the “civil society”……. we must have DRASTICALLY different definitions for “civil”.
You had a whole post on the CLC’s a while back. So they are being “civil”…. as long as we pay them. Then that stops and then what happens? Those CLC’s are not even being allowed to enter the police forces.
See Mark, nobody is doubting the amazing work of our troops. It is that the leadership and lack of planning from the get-go were just so far off. All these gains that you point to should have happened 2 or 3 years ago. At some point the U.S. has to stop being used as a crutch to the Iraqis. Time to let them do what they need on their own with the U.S. having a SMALL support group based in Baghdad.
30. js | February 6th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
“Anyway… I never understaood why Repubs say it is Dems that don’t support the troops. Dems most certainly do. In fact, Dems support the troops AFTER they come home from battle as well as while in battle. ”
Ya. right. Hot Air.
John Kerry is a Demoncrat.
You tell us about it.
As leader of the rabid pro-communist Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Kerry appeared before the U. S. Senate in the spring of 1971, accusing American soldiers of barbaric acts in Vietnam.
Did he ever recant? Did he every apologize for the lies? NO.
Matter of fact, he asserted, still, that he didnt lie.
On April 23, 1971, while wearing the uniform of a United States soldier, Kerry lied during testimony before Congress that U.S. soldiers, as a matter of U.S. policy and in general had “personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam.”
Democrats support Kerry. Whatever you mean by supporting troops is well beyond my understanding. Any political party that supports the behavior that Kerry was active in doesnt even belong in this nation.
31. Mark Noonan | February 6th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Joe,
Oh, for crying out loud, no! Not in Baghdad - our eventual support group must be based deep, deep in the Iraqi coutryside…not in a major city where it will easily be a target for any anti-American who wants to make a point. Geesh!
As for paying the Iraqis - they should do it for free? The Minutemen were paid, you know? Troops have to be paid, else they cannot support their families while they are away at the battle. You act as if the Iraqis should just tell their families to go jump in a lake while they fight for free…a rather foolhardy position to take. Also, a position which is clearly a knee-jerk response to lefty propaganda about what is happening in Iraq. As I’ve said again and again about Iraq - think carefully about the information you receive and see if it makes sense to you…not sense in a political debate where you’re trying to score anti-Bush points, but sense in the real world. To hold that paying the Iraqi troops and paramilitary forces is a sign of weakness is not just wrong, its weird.
32. Joe | February 6th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
I don’t think they should fight for free at all. I think the point is the IRAQIs should be paying them… not the U.S.
33. SteaM | February 6th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Mark,
I’m hopefully am only going to say this once on this thread.
The truth is that a majority of the American people now think that going into Iraq was not worth it. A majority of the Iraqi citizens want us out. A majority of the American people want us to leave Iraq within a year.
We’ve been told this over and over. It’s not “made-up” news spawned of some sort of vast conspiracy media bias.
Now, having said that, you have the information. The stats and proof of this is all over the web. I’ve told you, others on here have told you.
You choose to believe what you will.
And just so you know. You refer to me and others as members of a group (lefties) that are bringing a flame war to your blog. I can’t speak for anyone else but myself and I will say that the reason I am here is to study and gain knowledge and perspective of what is a very good example of a group of republicans who are very much comparable to my immediate family. I want to know how you think, and what your views are on different issues. You are the minority in this country. A lunatic fringe of confused and misled people. The origin of this confusion and diehard attempts to defend your viewpoints that are based on misinformation interests me. This blog an example of the backlash of the ten years or more of “conservative” radio and television (foxnews, hannity, rush, orielly, etc).
The sociological makeup of the core republican commentor and editors on this blog, to me, represent what I was headed towards for the first 18 years of my own life. The road I traveled until I turned the car around and started to open my mind to reality.
You may get a kick out of turning our comments around for your use and amusement. That’s fine. I am intrigued by you guys. So this goes both ways.
34. Joe | February 6th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
To quote Mark… “Oh for crying out loud” js…….
We know you despise John Kerry. He protested the Vietnam War in 1971. Yes he did.
What I’m talking about is the cutting of VA benefits from the Bush administration.
Yes… a war is going on as you people love to point out. So obviously more troops will be coming home with more and more needs. Why wouldn’t the VA budget go UP and not get cut.
So yes… Kerry protested the Vietnam War in 1971. The point is that Iraq War troops are NOT getting taken care of when they get home. So you people love to support them while in battle, but not when they get home.
Mark,
If this isn’t an occupation, then what is it? I thought the war was won already? Is it policing the streets? What exactly is it?
35. js | February 6th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
“The truth is that a majority of the American people now think that going into Iraq was not worth it. A majority of the Iraqi citizens want us out. A majority of the American people want us to leave Iraq within a year.”
According to whom? Your “polls” and your “Press”? Thats hogwash. Most Iraqi’s really are happy our sons are there to stop tyrany from being reintroduced to Iraq.
They finally realize that they are far better off now than before we came, simple for the fact that Saddam is gone. They also dont want our forces rapidly withdrawn like so many of you goody two shoes keep demanding because that would leave a huge void, that no doubt would be filled just as rapidly by forces that are just like those in Syria and Iran.
and joe
joe, you just dont have what it takes to make a real impact here, you should stick with moveon.org where they suck up your half witted gossip spreading and cheer your on
36. Mark Noonan | February 6th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
SteaM,
But you keep it on topic, you don’t just slander and insult…and I appreciate you coming here. But you need to turn around and go back - “progressives” are heading off a cliff.
:o)
Anyways…
You don’t know what Iraqis want - you’ve got polls which may or may not be accurate: I’ve got the Iraqi government, responsive to the will of the Iraqi people, saying they want us to stay. As far as I’m concerned, this is far better than a poll on whether or not the Iraqis want us in.
You also don’t know what the American people want - that will be reflected by votes. 2006? Doesn’t count - Democrats didn’t run on a withdraw from Iraq platform…the ran on a “change of direction” platform, and that is precisely what President Bush provided to the American people in 2007…and, also, President Bush was re-elected in 2004 on a platform of sticking it out in Iraq no matter how hard it is, or how long it takes - and that mandate continues through January 20th, 2009, unless the Congress defunds the war, which ain’t happening…and the fact that it isn’t happening should give everyone pause on statements alledging that Americans want out of Iraq.
This November we’ll have another vote - McCain will almost certainly be the GOP nominee and he’s pledged to victory in Iraq. His opponent will be someone committed to ending the Iraq campaign. If the American people vote in McCain’s opponent, then that will be your indication that the American people want out of Iraq…but if McCain wins, then you’re stuck with the knowledge that for the past few years all your statements about Americans wanting to be out of Iraq were based on nonsense. Time will tell on this.
You talk about made up news and how you live in reality - the actuality is that you are living in a carefully constructed leftwing fantasy world which bears little relation to what is actually happening out there. I called this, back in 2004, the Alternate Universe of the left. It isn’t as cut-and-dried as you think, and the most important thing to remember is to look at what people do, rather than what they say. As regards Iraq, the fact that 300,000+ Iraqis have joined the fight on our side while, at most, 30,000 Iraqis joined the fight against us should have told you - from day one - that the fundamental reality in Iraq is that President Bush is right about it.
37. Mark Noonan | February 6th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
joe,
We’re fighting alongside our Iraqi allies for liberty…its really as simple as that.
38. Joe | February 6th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
js, WTF?? thanks for being a condesending jerk. It was a good comeback on your part though… ok, not really.
Glad you make such a positive impact on this blog. Let’s bring up what John Kerry did 36 years ago before he was in Congress and apply what he did to ALL Democrats.
Let me rephrase that… you are a condesending dope.
39. SteaM | February 6th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Mark,
Thanks for the response.
When debaathification first occured in 2003 (I think) on the orders of Paul Bremer it meant this:
1. Debaathification of Iraqi society.
2. Formally disbanded the iraqi army.
3. Bremer then formed the Iraqi Governing Council
4. Bremer’s Coalition Provisional Authority, in 2004, transferred power to the newly appointed Iraqi Interim Government and then they disbanded the CPA and Bremer left Iraq.
Another key point is that Saddam, as soon as we said we would be attacking his country, emptied his prisons including Abu Graib (sp?) and so you had rapists, murderers etc that were roaming the streets right when we invaded.
Now let’s turn the tables regarding the US led Iraqi invasion that was supposed to disarm and depose Saddam.
Let’s say that Iraq started to bomb the US and then moved it’s military into Washington and attempted to overthrow our President. Of course the President goes into hiding for safety. They fire the government workers, all of the professionals at all levels of federal government, they fire all of the army (pissing off armed and trained men who fight for their country), and then you have all of the prisoners that are now roaming the streets. By eliminating the experts in government positions who ran things, by eliminating the army and pissing off the officers, on top of the looting and criminals roaming without any army to keep control. The whole country has fallen apart, into chaos. Since Bush refused to listen to those who told him this was all a bad idea, who you will call “leftists” or “defeatists” he continued year-after-year to follow this failed policy. Further alienating and destroying any kind of “greeted as libereators” mentallity that the Iraqi people could’ve had.
Insurgents? Who are the insurgents? Former army? Former government workers fighting for their country and defending it against the occupiers? Dangerous criminals freed with nothing to lose?
…or is it Al Quada?
Or is it a people who had been the minority and now could take things back? Hense a civil war?
This is the reality. How could any average Iraqi citizen be ok with this? How could they be hugging the USA and praising us? I sure as hell wouldn’t if the tables were turned. Niether would you.
40. Dennis | February 6th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Mark says, “a civil society is building up in Iraq - not a perfect one, but one which is far better than anyone else in the entire Moslem world has.” He neglects to mention that Iraq was not a Muslim country before this war, but the most powerful secular deterrent to radical Islam in all the Middle East.
That’s irrevocably gone now. The best reason anyone can offer for staying in Iraq is not abandoning the defenseless people there. The political situation really is hopeless. (Too bad the Bush admin never felt that way about defenseless Americans in New Orleans.) The war’s defenders never mention the hundreds of thousands of innocents already killed by it, who would be alive today had we simply contained Saddam Hussein.
Success in Iraq by any standard definition is unattainable. Supporting the troops means deploying them on missions consistent with a.) the long-term interests of America and b.) the Constitution, and from its inception the Iraq war failed to meet either criteria.
Bin Laden stated his intention of destroying America by egging us into unwinnable war. In true sucker fashion Mr. Bush swallowed the bait, hook line and sinker.
Once started down this path, Bush utopians are too proud to back out. It would hand a victory to al Qaeda, they believe - so instead we hand them an even sweeter victory on the installment plan. Bin Laden laughs while we hemorrhage nine billion dollars a month and our credibility turns to ashes. We lose by default when we stoop to torture, spy on our own citizens and employ politics of fear.
Mark talks of progressives heading off a cliff, but the GOP, running on empty, is fighting over immigration and still waving the bloody shirt, along with assorted remnants of Bushism like tax cuts for the wealthy and spying on Americans. That’s a losing formula for the coming election. The grand visions tend to dissipate when you wake up to reality.
Genuine conservative leaders with creds and gravitas like Chuck Hagel knew better than to get out in front of an imploding party that has financially bankrupted America while presiding over military and foreign policy debacles. Now all you’ve got left are kooks and poseurs running on a fools’ errand.
No wonder people are saying it’s time for a change.
41. SteaM | February 6th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Mark,
Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like every time I bring up the facts about Paul Bremer, the CPA, and Debaathification, and disbanding the military…
It’s ignored. I’m curious about this really. How do you guys feel about that and my thoughts in terms of these decisions leading to an insurgency and undermining our “America-saves-the-day” campaign in that country?
Of course I will go further to point out that the person Bremer replaced was the right man for the job. Jay Garner. He was replaced when he refused to go along with what were considered, in his view, to be really bad ideas (and they were, like debaathification, disbanding army, etc). These decisions were made by Rumsfeld.
42. bongoman | February 6th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Dennis, excellent points.
And not to mention boosting the Iranian sphere of influence in the region.
The whole war from inception to the present day has been a disaster and a disgrace.
And to pretend that the surge has worked because violence is only back at 2006 levels is a a fraud perpetrated by people blind to the insanity of this war.
The whole point of the surge was to create space for political progress, none of which has been forthcoming.
Bush and his Iraq war will, indeed is, going down in history as a grand folly, a senseless foolish act. Follow the money as they say - who is prospering as a result of the war? Only the arms companies and mercenaries.
But if we can just get our permanent bases built…
43. neocon | February 6th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Our resident liberals posts as they pertain to Iraq have become mind numbingly idiotic and beyond the pale. The line from Dennis asserts that Iraq was a powerful secular deterent to radical Islam.
WOW.
His fan club of SteaM and bongman echo his sentiment and perpetuate the debunked propaganda. I am convinced that they have zero capacity for original thought and rarely read anything that doesn’t come pre-approved from the DNC. It’s just a shame that more people can’t seperate themselves from their brain washing peers and employ some level of critical thought.
The following is just one example of what our friends on the left are desperately trying to ignore.
Wednesday, 06 February 2008
BAGHDAD — Top Iraqi Police officials and Coalition military police gathered at the Camp Fiji training facility Feb. 2 to witness 493 new Iraqi Police officers graduate and perform a demonstration.
“This increase in police force will better the peace for the citizens,” said Capt. Mohammad, training commander, Iraqi Police’s Forward Unit. “I see only good things in our future.”
An Iraqi Police expansion program aims to eventually train more than 12,000 new Iraqi Police recruits from surrounding provinces. Maj. Gen. Kadhem Hamid Sharhan, Provincial Police Commander of Baghdad, members of the 18th Military Police Brigades’ command group and the Provincial Police Transition Team were among those present at the graduation.
“I am anxious to find out how many improvements there will be in the near future in Baghdad because of this increase in Iraqi Police forces,” said Maj. Larry Dewey, Provincial Police Transition Team Chief, 18th Military Police Brigade. “I am very impressed with the training we have seen to date in this graduating class, as they (Iraqi Police trainers) have led the class completely on their own.”
44. JD | February 6th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Building new combat outposts to chase bad guys five years into this thing is NOT progress nor is it success.
45. Barak | February 6th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
33. SteaM | February 6th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Mark,
I’m hopefully am only going to say this once on this thread.
The truth is that a majority of the American people now think that going into Iraq was not worth it. A majority of the Iraqi citizens want us out. A majority of the American people want us to leave Iraq within a year
Hm…..is that same 85% that thought it was a good idea when we went in? That’s the problem with so-called progressives. They think they can evolve themselves out of everything and that somehow the evolution of man will produce a perfect world someday. What a bunch of dreamers!
46. FmrMarine | February 6th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
JS
On April 23, 1971, while wearing the uniform of a United States soldier, Kerry lied during testimony before Congress that U.S. soldiers, as a matter of U.S. policy and in general had “personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South
AND got three BANDAID injuries in LESS than 90 days, and a free trip out of dodge leaving his crew behind.
What a guy.
I love the “razing villages” stuff from a patrol………BOAT. ROTFLMAO
47. Dennis | February 6th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Neocon, you say “I am convinced that they [Dennis et al] have zero capacity for original thought and rarely read anything that doesn’t come pre-approved from the DNC.”
Actually I’ve traveled in the Middle East (as well as southern Asia, Africa and Central America, not to mention Europe), have family members who lived between Jordan, Lebanon and Iran for over thirty years, and I still retain some pretty good friends from abroad. I came to care about certain places in particular where people showed me great kindness. It is why I’ve been paying close attention to the Middle East for some time.
My world view, still evolving, is formed primarily from personal experience and observation of events in all these places over decades of time.
And you?
48. js | February 6th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
40. Dennis
“that Iraq was not a Muslim country before this war, but the most powerful secular deterrent to radical Islam in all the Middle East. ”
That most surely is wrong.
In 94 and on, Iraqi Government money went towards Korans and required all schools to teach Islam. The State did not yet practice Sharia politics, but did practice and enforce some Sharia laws as social conduct and punished violations by prison terms. The conduct of the Iraqi Judicial system was quasi-based on Islamic Jurisprudence, for example, a womans testimoney was only worth half that of a mans. Just because Sharia was not instituted as a form of Government doesnt disqualify Iraq as a non muslim nation either. Other examples exist through out the Islamic world. Some of the largest Islamic nations like Indonesia and Pakistan remain outside of the secular Islamic constitutions and laws.
Most nations claiming to be Islamic (like Iraq did under Saddam) do not adhere strictly to Sharia like they do in Egypt, Arabia, Kuwait, and Iran to name a few. That doesnt mean they are not Islamic nations though.
49. Dennis | February 6th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Sorry js, but Iraq indeed had a secular government until Mr. Bush’s war destroyed it and created a new Muslim state in the heart of the Middle East.
Saddam Hussein no more tolerated radical (politicized) Islam than he did dissenters to his own rule. Political ambitions from any source were a threat to him and were treated summarily as such. This is perhaps the main reason Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox churches thrived in Saddam’s Iraq.
Of course Saddam Hussein was a nominal Muslim, as were the majority of Iraqis. But Islam certainly was not a “state religion” - even Tariq Aziz, his foreign minister, was a Christian. I challenge you to name one Christian in Iraq’s current government.
50. js | February 6th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
49. Dennis | February 6th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Sorry js, but Iraq indeed had a secular government
And I thought you were paying attention.
Guess you really dont have a clue after all, do you…..if you did, you would have really tried to understand what I said before posting this blot of nonintelligence.
51. coulterfan | February 6th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
>>Thanks! I didn’t know you were looking forward to John McCain’s victory as well - but its nice to have you on board.
You bet, Mark! McCain and his ‘less jobs, more wars” approach will be just what the country needs!
Of course, McCain could never be quite as good as Bush (whom the Almighty chose as President), but he will try to match that level of brilliance!
Yes, the GOP has lots to be proud of! They have accomplished A LOT with complete control of the agenda (2000-2006) and I’m sure Americans want to see more!
You guys are GREAT!
52. neocon | February 6th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Dennis,
So you’ve traveled, so have I. Big flippin deal. That means nothing. Your brain is still evolving to. And as evidenced by js’s rebuttal, your travels taught you nothing.
53. coulterfan | February 6th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
BTW, Mark.
Obama will win the election BIG TIME.
Watch one of his speeches and tell me what exactly you don’t agree with. Go to his web site, look at his positions. If he can bring Republicans, Democrats, and Independents together, we can all achieve great things.
Let us try for a while, it certainly can’t get worse. . . and you’ll have someone to blame if things don’t improve.
54. Dennis | February 6th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Js, you said nothing to illustrate how radical Islam (we were talking about radical Islam - not the nominal religion that existed in Iraq before the war) could have eclipsed Saddam’s authoritarianism.
You say “The State did not yet practice Sharia politics,” which implies that such a change was imminent. I responded with reasons I believe such a change was very unlikely. You point to nothing in Saddam’s character or history to support the belief he would have tolerated the kind of Islamic state we see in the new Iraq.
55. Christian Wright | February 7th, 2008 at 12:21 am
Iraq has been a series of one disaster after another.
Why not make a collumn for the White Line Shipping.
Building on the Success of the Titanic.
56. Dennis | February 7th, 2008 at 12:34 am
Js, we could simplify the whole question by asking, where are the Christians now in Iraq?
Please note that in the former Iraq, Christians had freedom to worship, enjoyed the protections of civil government and did not experience religious persecution.
That is one of the wonderful features of the principle we call separation of church and state (or as I sometimes call it, separation of the sacred and the profane).
Of course there are many who favor abolishing this principle, such as radical Islamists…
57. Jack DeMaris | February 7th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Well said Mark! (Ed. Note; why, thank you very much - and because we are kind, we deleted the hate-filled part of your comment)
58. SteaM | February 7th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
I read what Jack posted… and, satire aside, he made some very good points.
Mark and Matt, you guys crack me up.
59. searp | February 8th, 2008 at 6:29 am
Hey Mark great post! I clicked on the America Supports You link right away. It made me feel much more… well, like I was really doing something.
I had to go eat at Morton’s first and write a book bashing my fellow citizens, some of whom are in the fight you discuss above, I was so busy it was a great thing that clicking the link didn’t take a lot of time.
60. SteaM | February 8th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Everything is fine.
Yep.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/02/08/iraq.women/index.html