The Florida and Michigan Icebergs For the SS Democrat
February 6th, 2008 at 02:46pm Mark Noonan
Tom Bevan over at Real Clear Politics points out the un-exploded hand grenade:
Clinton may be a slight favorite as we head beyond Super Tuesday, but this is still a very close race that will be competitive for a long time, precisely because Clinton and Obama are splitting the Democratic electorate down the middle: he’s winning young, she’s winning old; he’s winning upper income, she’s winning lower income; he’s winning Blacks, she’s winning Hispanics; he’s winning men, she’s winning women.
There is no reason to assume the voting patterns we’ve seen on the Democratic side won’t continue. And if you look at the calendar moving forward, Obama should have the upper hand over the next three weeks until we get to Texas and Ohio on March 4th.
If the back and forth continues, as it most likely will, and neither Clinton nor Obama are able to reach the magic number of delegates, then we’re going to circle back for a really nasty fight over Michigan and Florida.
For the last week the Clinton campaign has been laying the groundwork to push the DNC to seat the delegates from Michigan and Florida, which would obviously be advantageous for her and potentially put her over the top.
But such a move would also rend the party in two, with Obama supporters taking the understandable position that Clinton was trying to steal the nomination by changing the rules of the game midstream…
It would be poetic justice if the Democrats started to rip themselves to shreds over a move by Hillary to change the election rules midstream - after all, the entirety of 2008 on the part of the Democrats is revenge for Florida 2000; they want to win this, at bottom, so they can get back at Bush…and why get back at Bush? Because back in 2000, it was President-elect Bush who got the US Supreme Court to stop Democrat attempts to change Florida’s election rules midstream. What goes around does, sometime, come around…and Michigan and Florida might be the cosmic payback for Democratic attempts to steal the 2000 election.
That aside, if Hillary and Obama do end up in a de-facto tie, then the pressure on Hillary to get the Flroida and Michigan delegations seated will be intense, as will the pressure on Obama to stop it from happening. Who backs down? Which one of them concedes an excellent chance of being elected President in the name of party amity? If Hillary is denied, do her supporters go to an Obama which prevented Florida and Michigan from having a say in the Democratic nominee? If Obama is denied, do his supporters forgive Hillary for a political dirty trick which denied their man the nomination?
Fun, fun, fun - and, as I’ve said, buckle yourselves in for a long, political ride in 2008.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Corruption, Democrats
36 Comments
1. js | February 6th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Well, the Democrats denied Florida and Michigan thier voice, just like the stunts they pulled in the last 2 general elections.
Its bound to snap back and bite them in the butt eventually.
2. SEW | February 6th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Hussein already is trying to steal the election, claiming more delegates with 49.8% of the vote to 50.2% for Billary. So much poetic justice is unfolding.
3. Mark Noonan | February 6th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
SEW,
It has major potential for being nasty - Hillary’s people and Obama’s people can spin the numbers a hundred different ways to make it seem like they won…and the sheeple of the left will be in complete confusion as they don’t know which spoon-fed information they are to swallow without thinking.
4. keefer | February 6th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Geez, Mark, I finally got what “SS” meant. Icebergs and SS DemocRAT. Holy Hannah, I must be having a blonde moment…
5. LiberalMind | February 6th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Gee, it seems the young, old, white, black, Hispanic, poor and wealthy are voting Democrat in record numbers.
That leaves Christian Taliban and a very few white wealthy men voting Republican.
The Republican fear mongering and illegal immigrant baiting is failing to get votes.
6. NeoClown | February 6th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama received 14 and a half million votes yesterday.
In the 19 states where both Democrats and Republicans had elections, there were 73% more Democratic voters than Republican voters – 14 plus million for Clinton and Obama to 8 plus million for John McCain, Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee.
On behalf of democrats everywhere, I want to thank Karl Rove and the Bush Administration. I would also like to give a shout-out to the republican led congress. Thanks a bunch guys, I mean it.
Word on the street is that Obama and Clinton will share the ticket for the GE. That sounds like a win-win to me.
7. LiberalMind | February 6th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
NeoClown
A Clinton or Obama administration would be a needed change in the White House after the last eight years of bungling, neglect, sabotage and incompetence this nation suffered under Republican mis-governance.
Also, this nation is returning to its progressive/liberal roots that salvaged the nation from the Great Depression and actually won wars against real enemies.
The Democrats are the party of conquering fear and overcoming hardship.
Republicans are the fear-peddlers who put all but their rich friends into hardship.
8. Marty13 | February 6th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Remember when W touted himself as a “Uniter.” Tuesday we saw a by-product of this ability. Fourteen million Dems united in their utter disgust of this administration, voted to purge this country of all vestiges of the neo-conism. Come November, Dem infighting will be a memory and you’ll see a record setting vote….
9. TiredofLibBullShit | February 6th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
“Also, this nation is returning to its progressive/liberal roots that salvaged the nation from the Great Depression and actually won wars against real enemies.”
It was the war that salvaged this country from the depression. Again, liberal revision.
“…actually won wars against real enemies”. Oh, you mean like Korea, the Cold War, Vietnam - wow, stellar examples of liberal war policy. Korea was a true quagmire, it took a Republican to end it. The Cold War didn’t even attempt to fight that one. And Vietnam….we all how that turned out - talk about inept command.
LiberalNoMind - you really are pathetic to believe the propaganda that has been spoonfed to you. It really amplifies your status as a USEFUL IDIOT.
10. Magnum Serpentine | February 6th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
The United States Supreme Court had no authority to interfere with a state election.
11. FmrMarine | February 6th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
MS
THEY DIDNT……….Gore took it to the SC,
They sent it back to Fla. Where FLA…LAW prevailed.
END of story nutcase al LOST - PERIOD.
Even after several ILLEGAL recounts.
12. bongoman | February 6th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Mark, why does TiredofLibBullShit get a free pass in hurling abuse? You seem quick to edit out other posters who resort to abuse, but TiredofLibBullShit/Huck Fillary gets to throw tantrums freely…
13. SEW | February 6th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Billary out of money and using personal wealth to fund the campaign! Just a few years ago H needed the Chicago mafia to buy his house and now he represents the party of wealth and corruption. Billary gets the nomination but has no money. Obama goes on tour with ‘change’, Global Cooling, making even more money from his useful idiots and sending AlGore home.
Maybe Billary can have the Michigan and Florida Supreme Courts decide the ’state’ issue of not having their votes counted!
14. TiredofLibBullShit | February 6th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Tantrums?
Look bong-man,
You can’t take criticism for stupidity, then go somewhere else where you can have your butt kissed - moveon, kos, democratic underground.
Case in point, MS is still arguing about the 2000 vote recount, that has time again been proven to be accurate. Liberal stupidity.
LiberalNomind is famous for spewing total crap (liberal roots). Her twisted view of history and her regular regurgitation of unproven and debunked talking points is getting tiresome, just like your whining.
And LiberalNoMind’s post - “Gee, it seems the young, old, white, black, Hispanic, poor and wealthy are voting Democrat in record numbers.
That leaves Christian Taliban and a very few white wealthy men voting Republican.
The Republican fear mongering and illegal immigrant baiting is failing to get votes.”
Wow, I see divisiveness, religious bigotry, racism, class envy, downright lies - I guess you see nothing wrong with it. As far as I am concerned, I am giving back what you pathetic libs are shoveling.
Grow a spine or get lost.
15. Magnum Serpentine | February 6th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
I agree with Bongoman.
And the United States Supreme Court had no authority to either accept or decide the case they should had refused to do anything. But they had to help george.
16. TiredofLibBullShit | February 6th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Read up on the SC decision, they did not decide the election. They upheld Florida state law that Gore was trying to circumvent. Preserving the rule of law. You know, the law that you claim Bush trashes all the time.
Let us know when you get back from the twilight zone. It is now 2008 and Bush isn’t running.
You too, grow a spine or get lost.
17. SEW | February 6th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Of course they’re still ranting about the 2000 vote in just 4 counties of Florida, not the entire state. In 2008 ‘The Democratic Party’ does not allow any votes in Florida or Michigan to be counted–in their own election! Democrats or Democratic? Or simple LOONS? Poetic. Will the loser go quietly, or hire another several thousand lawyers as in 2000 to try and steal THEIR ‘Democratic’ election?
18. neocon | February 6th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Mark,
Any chance we can raise the level of discourse? I often enjoy SEWs and Tiredoflibs comments and insights, but they, and many of us, are just too often drawn into the stupidity of our resident leftie trolls regurgitating tired old propaganda. I know it is in an effort to educate, but I certainly believe now that they are uneducatable.
We must move the needle and speak of topical events with a certain amount of objectivity. That being said, I can’t help but think that many on the right are now acting like the children on the left. Adults realize that you seldom get everything you want in a candidate, and you certainly don’t throw a tantrum when that materializes. McCain certainly wasn’t my first or even second choice, but I will support him if in fact he is the candidate. For those “conservatives” who are whining about his past transgressions, I can only say….. grow up.
19. keefer | February 6th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
…but TiredofLibBullShit/Huck Fillary gets to throw tantrums freely…
Huck Fillary, aka keefer, is the attack dog and enjoys limited poetic license. If you don’t like it, dongoman, leave. And take little snake with you.
ToLB, you and I know that Bush isn’t running. Earbama, who smoked dope and snorted coke, is running against Bush, as is Hitlery. Did you hear both of their bash-Bush speeches on Super Tuesday? No substance, just platitudes and Bush-bashing. Their lemmings here have learned well–they’re a flock of parrots…
20. FmrMarine | February 6th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
keef
OR
Flying Monkeys …LOL
21. keefer | February 6th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Geez, FmrMarine, we must be careful when we call them names. Monkeys? Now, is that a PC term in this day and age? lol
Flying Junkies…
22. Ricorun | February 6th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
neocon: Any chance we can raise the level of discourse?
Here’s an idea… if you think a comment is beneath reply, don’t reply. I get the feeling that a lot of people here are more interested in attention than discourse. And if they don’t get the attention they will leave.
That said, I think you enjoy being desultory. So be careful what you wish for.
23. Retired Spook | February 6th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Here’s an idea… if you think a comment is beneath reply, don’t reply.
Good point, Rico; and one of the reasons I don’t comment as much as I used to. Responding to people like Magnum Serpentine, LiberalMind and Bongoman only serves to legitimize their childish and boorish posts.
24. keefer | February 6th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
neocon, I’ll raise my level of discourse when the trolls stop regurgitating seven-year-old bullsh*t.
As for McLame, I don’t know what to tell you. Sure, he’d be better than Hillbama, but I’m not sure how much better. Maybe I’ll hold my nose and vote for him.
I hope that’s grown up enough for you…
25. Casper | February 6th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
An interesting thing happened to me today. While having lunch with some of my sixth graders, I asked if any had watched the election coverage last night. Most said they had, and the one person running they all knew was Obama. Several had negative things to say about Clinton, but all of their comments about Obama were very positive. No one had much to say at all about the Republicans.
What surprised me about this was that we haven’t had any discussions about the primaries in class, yet they are obviously discussing them at home.
26. neocon | February 6th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Keef,
McCain will be tougher on the war than Bush, has said that he’ll make the tax cuts permanent, will cut back on spending (which anything along that line will be better than Bush), and will appoint judges in the mold of Roberts and Alito. All of those, I can support. And of all those will be a far cry better than the alternative.
Stop listening to Hannity.
27. keefer | February 6th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
neocon, I don’t give Hannity “three hours a day.” He sounds too whiny. I listen to Limbaugh; he’s the one McLame’s running against.
btw, how is McLame gonna be tougher on the war, when he wants to close Git’mo and molly-coddle terrorists?
Spook, great idea–let’s ignore the pukes and talk amongst ourselves. We can still slam the slime, but only to each other…
28. NeoClown | February 6th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Keefer,
Speaking of flying junkies I hear El Rushbo couldn’t figure out his voting machine. Fat, pathetic, and deaf.
29. neocon | February 6th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
IMHO, conservatives need to quit being so puritanical in their political approach and live to fight another day. There are certainly worse alternatives than McCain.
We’ve often excoriated the liberals for their unbending desire to push their agenda and now those on the right are beginning to sound too much like them.
30. keefer | February 6th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Okay, neocon, I’ll become a moderate, or maybe a flying junkie, like NeoClown…
31. neocon | February 6th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
keef,
You sound like the other whiny conservatives. I am not asking you to become a moderate. That’s the statement of victims. I deplore victims.
I am asking you to see what is there that you can support and then fight for what you don’t. That’s easier done with McCain than the what’s on the other side.
32. Kahn | February 7th, 2008 at 1:29 am
Casper, could your classes reaction be to the press coverage? I wonder what networks they watched?
Besides being a great speaker and a black man - just what is Obama all about?
33. keefer | February 7th, 2008 at 5:38 am
That’s easier done with McCain than the what’s on the other side.
I agree, neocon, and I’ll probably support whomever the GOP nominee is. That doesn’t mean I have to shut up about what I don’t like about the nominee. And besides, this state will vote for whomever the Donkaroach nominates, so my vote matters not.
My wife asked me which Donkaroach I’d vote for. I told her that if I had a gun to my head, and was told I had to support a Donkaroach, that I’d vote for Earbama, the former pot smoker who snorted a little cocaine. I’d never vote for Hitlery–I detest the beyotch…
34. phnx | February 7th, 2008 at 6:19 am
McLame has got some ’splainin to do Lucy.
He doesn’t have the nomination yet, its still early. I am supporting Romney until he either wins or withdraws.
The one silver lining in this long campaign process is that both Clinton and Obama have eaten up their massive campaign war chests duking it out. Obama has just raised another 30 million and Clinton is now lending (?) her campaign 5 million. I wonder where that came from, rumor has it some sheik in Dubai made a large donation to the Clinton Library and Massage Parlor. Since these records aren’t public there is no accountability.
In the meantime, Republicans, donors have kept their poweder dry for the real campaign.
35. hermie | February 7th, 2008 at 11:18 am
You also have to remember that Bill has billions in his ‘charity’ that he can funnel to other groups as ‘grants’, then they can establish or increase funding to their PACs and 527s.
36. David.B.Schmidt | February 7th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Well, it looks like Senator McCain is my “new” choice. Gov. Romney just withdrew. I am really waiting until McCain mentions a VP pick but any GOP ticket is better than the going “over to the dumb side.”