Howard Dean Unhappy
February 7th, 2008 at 08:20am Mark Noonan
Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean on Wednesday voiced concern over the prospect of a brokered convention at the end of the party’s White House nominating contests.
“The idea that we can afford to have a big fight at the convention and then win the race in the next eight weeks, I think, is not a good scenario,” Dean said according to excerpts of an interview with NY1 television.
In state nominating contests so far, no clear winner has emerged among Democrats Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama for the party’s nomination ahead of November’s presidential vote to replace George W. Bush in the White House.
“I think we will have a nominee sometime in the middle of March or April. But if we don’t, then we’re going to have to get the candidates together and make some kind of an arrangement,” said Dean, who failed in his bid for the party’s nomination in 2004.
“Because I don’t think we can afford to have a brokered convention — that would not be good news for either party.”
What is it with Democrats and their fear of democracy? Right now, Democrats are battling it out for the heart and soul of the Democratic party - for Howard Dean to come along and say, “doesn’t matter, we’ll fix things up behind closed doors” is an insult to the energy and passion being shown all around American politics this year. It is also enormously funny - for we GOPers.
You see, we know the Democratic scam - we can see right through Dean, Hillary - and Obama. Its all about power, prestige and money…if you think there’s an actual idea back there, then you just haven’t been paying attention. Aside from a rote, knee-jerk slavery to various special interests (most notably the abortion industry and the public sector unions), these guys are just shadow-boxing and pretending there’s a dime’s worth of difference between Hillary and Obama (if Obama is for change and hope, Hillary is for hope, and she’ll leave us some change, if we’re lucky). Obama just sounds a lot better than Hillary - in the fundamentals, he’s a Hillary clone (and Hillary is a Bill clone is a Carter clone is a Mondale clone, etc, etc, etc).
We’ll see how this comes out - brawl resulting in an unhappy compromise, or backroom deal resulting in unhappy compromise.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Corruption, Democrats
72 Comments
1. Kahn | February 7th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Bill O’Reilly was pointing out last night that the “super delegates” who can vote for whomever they want won’t be able to get away with nominating Clinton if she’s trailing Obama going into the convention. On paper they could, yes. But the turmoil it would cause would be incredible.
If she’s leading, she may just offer him the VP slot.
And who did O’Reilly mention as a possible Republican VP candidate? My choice - Condi Rice. Several of my neighbors work at State. They tell me she’s pretty damn incredible.
2. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Glad you’re enjoying the nomination process of the Dems. I agree that the ‘Superdelegates’ should be eliminated, but my money is on this being resolved amicably. Plus, when someone starts funding her own campaign (like Romney) or asking workers to go without pay (Guiliani)- it’s a sign of trouble. The thing is- we are happy with EITHER of our candidates!
The question is how the GOP nomination going? What states has McCain won decisively? How about turnout, how does it compare against the Dems? How do your party’s media leaders (Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity, etc) like your candidate?
Don’t worry about the Dems until you have your own house in order!
3. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 10:51 am
>>And who did O’Reilly mention as a possible Republican VP candidate? My choice - Condi Rice. Several of my neighbors work at State. They tell me she’s pretty damn incredible.
And VERY sociably liberal! She’s pro-choice, pro-gay rights (she attended a gay marriage ceremony!), pro-affirmative action. . . in short, everything that the GOP base hated about Guiliani and the previous incarnation of Romney!
4. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Obama-Webb versus McCain-Rice
Sounds good to me!
5. Retired Spook | February 7th, 2008 at 10:53 am
And who did O’Reilly mention as a possible Republican VP candidate? My choice - Condi Rice.
I’ve seen no evidence that Condi would accept, but that would definitely be a strong ticket, Kahn, particularly against a Clinton/Obama ticket. Can you picture a VP debate between Condi and Barack? That would expose his lack of substance like nothing else I can imagine. My fear, though, is that McCain will pick someone like his good friend Lindsey Graham or some other sycophant toady.
6. neocon | February 7th, 2008 at 11:04 am
The Republicans have only themselves to blame for their fractured party, and it’s a hell of a time to whine about the departure from core conservative principles when that actually happened in 1994. The Republican controlled House and Senate was an embarrasment complete with back room corruption, weak and ineffective positions on SS and immigration, and out of control spending, which Bush did nothing to turn around. AND NOW, Hannity and Limbaugh are whining about the party not toeing the conservative line. A day late and a dollar short IMHO.
I have never been more disappointed with the Republicans whom are acting more like the liberal left with their incessant whining about McCain than people of integrity who own up to their missteps and make the necessary steps to turn it around.
Personally, I will support McCain, if he is the candidate and will battle him on the issues I disagree with him on. That’s a far cry better than throwing a Hannity tantrum and giving the nomination to the other side of the aisle.
7. hermie | February 7th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Spook:
Not only will McCain choose a Graham or Whitman, but I’ll lay you odds that he will not make any campaign appearance with any GOP candidate who is running against any of his Democrat ‘good friends’.
8. Ricorun | February 7th, 2008 at 11:20 am
On the GOP side, McCain has plenty of time between now and the convention to mend fences with much of the right wing of the party. I think Condi would be a good running mate. Others are Charlie Crist or Haley Barbour.
On the Dem side, it doesn’t appear that either Clinton or Obama is likely to win enough pledged delegates to secure the nomination. However, if Clinton leads I suspect Obama will accept either the VP job or some other plum in the interests of party unity. On the other hand, if Obama leads I don’t see Clinton backing down, even if it means destroying party unity. And considering how things are shaping up, it seems to me the latter scenario is the more likely one: i.e., Obama is ahead in pledged delegates going into the convention. What do you think, coulterfan?
9. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 11:24 am
>>Can you picture a VP debate between Condi and Barack? That would expose his lack of substance like nothing else I can imagine.
Hahahahaha! I agree it would be a very interesting debate, but it would expose her incompetance (she’s been described by fellow GOPers as the WORST National Security Advisor EVER!)
Her propaganda for war would be exposed (’we don’t want the smoking gun to come in the form of a mushroom cloud’); her lack of taking terrorism seriously (per Richard Clark who was THERE when she dismissed Al Queda as not a big issue); lack of foresight (’no one could have imagined that they would fly planes into buildings’), etc, etc
Also interesting would be how LIBERAL she is on social issues- abortion, gay marriage, affirmative action, etc.
Oh yeah, she would be a GREAT VP- at least in insuring that McCain gets NO VOTES from the ‘Very Conservative’ base!!!
10. OhioOrrin | February 7th, 2008 at 11:25 am
hold the phone -
not just the dems, but as a centrist indie….
…I have yet to decide which multi-millionaire, NAFTA sell-out I’m voting 4.
oh yea, I remember, the one who calls 4 a NATIONAL REFERENDUM ON NAFTA IN THE NOVEMBER GENERAL ELECTION !
care to wager how that would turn-out?
free trade my a$$.
11. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 11:31 am
I used to think Hillary would win the nomination (to my chagrin). . .
But Obama’s going to pull this one off- he’s already raised almost 8 million since Tuesday. And it just came out that the Clintons are putting 5 million of their own money into the campaign (and some staffers are going without pay).
If he continues to win the next couple weeks (very likely), watch for ’superdelegates’ like Al Gore and Edwards to endorse him. There will be tremendous pressure for her to bow out. She will resist, but eventually have no choice- having lost the support of party officials who see the power of Obama’s people-powered campaign.
He will NOT choose her as VP- that would defeat the purpose of his intended campaign for change. And the Republicans won’t say it, but they will respect him for knocking out the power-hungry Clinton machine. . .
That’s how I see it, Ricorun. Could be wrong, but I predicted McCain would be the GOP nominee when NOBODY thought he would come back.
12. Retired Spook | February 7th, 2008 at 11:55 am
And the Republicans won’t say it, but they will respect him for knocking out the power-hungry Clinton machine. . .
I’m a Republican, and I wouldn’t have any problem saying that, but anyone who thinks the Clintons will go down without a nasty fight, simply doesn’t know the Clintons.
Not only will McCain choose a Graham or Whitman, but I’ll lay you odds that he will not make any campaign appearance with any GOP candidate who is running against any of his Democrat ‘good friends’.
Hermie, at a time when I’m trying my damnedest to rationalize in my own mind how I could vote for McCain, I can’t think of anything McCain could do that would insure his defeat more than those two things.
13. SEW | February 7th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
I think much of the dogfight at the Dem convention will revolve around the disenfranchised voters in Florida and Michigan. Those 2 states will actually be void, unlike in 2000 when the claim was only for the 4 counties that would have helped Gore. Fine and dandy to disenfranchise the rest of the state and military.
Hopefully there will be enough intraparty conflict and a close enough race for this to continue to be an Achilles heel. But will Billary be out of money and unable to proceed? Amazing to me all the MSM publicity and turmoil when the Dems tried to steal the 2000 election, and the virtual total lack of MSM coverage when the ‘Democratic’ party does not allow their own votes to be counted in 2 states. To me that is what Screaming Howie is referring to. And what the MSM is ignoring. Only Billary can keep it out there, and if the race is close enough, she will.
14. Dennis | February 7th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I don’t believe Howard Dean is unhappy. Being concerned about all the various possibilities is the job of party chairman. Yesterday he sounded positively ebullient to me.
Mark says of the Dems, “Its all about power, prestige and money…if you think there’s an actual idea back there, then you just haven’t been paying attention.”
Anyone who can say this in the wake of the Bush-Cheney-Rove-DeLay-Abramoff era clearly hasn’t been paying attention for quite some time. Ideas? Right now Republicans are terribly demoralized because all their scheming to turn the nation into a unipolar state backfired so spectacularly. That was their one big idea.
Any other ideas the GOP may have had can be summed up by observing: they broke the economy, they destroyed Iraq, they scorned the American Constitution, they greatly weakened US prestige in the world, they empowered our enemies, they undermined military preparedness for a long time to come and have greatly weakened national security.
By contrast the Dems are looking pretty good - even if their one big idea right now is to unite the nation after such a bitterly divisive era, that’s a damned sight better than any idea the GOP has had since Gingrich left the House.
15. Dasein Libsbane | February 7th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Spook,
You can take Hermie’s prognostication to the bank; history is a great predictor of things to come. As Al Gore said, you can’t expect a leopard to change his stripes. Rico speculated that McCain will try to mend fences, I doubt it; he can’t afford to do so. McCain’s party operatives will try to get conservatives in line. It won’t matter.
You need to understand that this is the democratic election they’ve been looking forward to since 1994. There is nothing in the platform that motivates democrats, it’s all about the personalities, gender, and race of the candidates. Super-dooper Tuesday night the pundits on all channels were analyzing the exit polls “Republicans self-described as ‘conservative’ voted this way, economy voters that way, security voters as such, and immigration voters thusly.”
Meanwhile, the analysis of the democrat primary, “White voters voted for this one, black this one, Hispanic for her and Asian for him, men voted this way, woman that.”
Democrats are excited about their candidates, republicans disappointed. Democrats are motivated, republicans dispirited. Democrats look for a “symbol”, republicans for a “leader.” and that is as it always has been; style over substance. We will have a democrat in the White House; will we support the conservatives down-ticket that can stop the madness, or will we be the loyal opposition? I don’t know about you, but I’m starting to focus on the local candidates that can stand for something.
Want to see the future? Democrats have control of the spending for one year and the economy slides toward recession. What’s their big idea? Give away money to democrat voters to spend at Wal-Mart. There’s leadership for you.
16. Joe | February 7th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Breaking news……
Finally Mitt is bye-bye
http://thepage.time.com/2008/02/07/sources-romney-to-quit-race/
Withdrawal could come at CPAC speech at 12:15 pm ET
Now he can go back to selling used cars.
17. NeoClown | February 7th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I’m glad you Bushies are enjoying the democrat race. It’s an amazing thing to behold isn’t it? An energized base voting in record numbers for two history making candidates. Wow.
In a way I do feel sorry for you Bushies and the hideous three-headed thing you have running. You guys would be doing great if it wasn’t for all the hate in the GOP. Conservatives hate McCain, southern Baptists hate Mormons, and the elitists hate hillbillies. Hate, hate, hate. Looks like the hate filled conservative chickens have come home to roost.
I agree with Glen Beck. He thinks all true Bushies should sit this election out. He doesn’t think the Bushies have hit rock bottom yet and need to be punished a little more. Glen is a wise man.
As far as the democratic race is concerned I would say it’s all wrapped up. Obama failed miserably Tuesday. Most of the states Obama took were throw-away red states and of no use to democrats. California was the tipping point and it tipped in Hillary’s direction. Now watch the Obama campaign fizzle out.
Hillary raised 3 million in donations in the past 24 hours. Tuesday’s win of Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and California has revived her cash flow big time.
18. Robert | February 7th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
“Its all about power, prestige and money…if you think there’s an actual idea back there, then you just haven’t been paying attention.” - Mark Noonan
Mark, how can you not see that this bill fits all the Republicans of yesteryear too? You say for the Dems this goes back to Carter and further. Well, for the Repubs. it also goes back to Nixon and further.
ALL politics is CORRUPT. Do you REALLY think that any of these people, especially George W. Bush, REALLY gives a flying crap about the common man.
The same goes for radio talk show hosts like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. Limbaugh himself has a small fortune, built on brainwashing millions of Americans with his arrogant assumptions of superiority.
Probably one of the only people out there who actually might care is Barack Obama. His lack of experience in Washington is EXACTLY what this country needs. Washington is an evil, foul smelling place, and needs a complete and utter facelift. We need to return to the ideals of our Founding Fathers. Those Fathers would be rolling in their graves at a man like George W and his arrogance.
Maybe Obama can be this generation’s version of Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson.
However, the man that we need now to fix this country is probably one of the greatest men in United States history, Abraham Lincoln. By the way, Lincoln was a REAL Republican, not the worthless tripe of Bush or Rush Limbaugh.
Unofortunately Lincoln is long gone. Maybe someone like Barack, with ideals and dreams, can try to take steps like Lincoln did to ensure the liberty of ALL in this country, and not just the rich and powerful.
19. westmich | February 7th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Plus the 5 million of her own she had to donate :)
20. Percy Beezer | February 7th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
“[Obama's] lack of experience in Washington is EXACTLY what this country needs.” My Irish Setter has even less expirience, think what a good candidate she would be.
Are all the products of public schools this ignorant of history?
21. Sunny | February 7th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Its all about power, prestige and money… Mark
Surprise! Isn’t that what it is with most candidates that run for the office of president? Who among either the Republicans or Democrats doesn’t want the power that comes with the position? That power then bring money and prestige. One exception in all the candidates running this time is probably Ron Paul. Get real Mark, this is not just a Democratic trait, but applies to both parties. Just once, be fair in your statements.
22. Rich | February 7th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
“I’m glad you Bushies are enjoying the democrat race. It?s an amazing thing to behold isn?t it? An energized base voting in record numbers for two history making candidates. Wow.”
A day late and a dollar short as usual. Romney is out. McCain is in. Well start to come together as the Dems start to duke it out even more. Keep whistling past the graveyard.
23. Kahn | February 7th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
coulterfan - Condi is pretty strong on the 2nd Amendment and the War on Terror.
But you can’t really tell her positions from the examples you gave. Chaney, for example has a lesbian daughter. You calling HIM liberal?
But you may have noticed… Giuliani and Romney lost. Our party speaks with a democracy type voice. Not the voices of dissention and division that your party does. Our arguments are based upon ideas. Your arguments are based upon wealth, race, and gender. What a pitiful excuse for a debate. 100% division and bigotry.
24. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
>>As far as the democratic race is concerned I would say it’s all wrapped up. Obama failed miserably Tuesday. Most of the states Obama took were throw-away red states and of no use to democrats.
You’re wrong here. Obama erased a 30 point Hillary lead and is now ahead in elected delegates (when the counting is finished)
She may have raised 3 million in one day, but he raised 7.6 million in the same time period! She thought it would be all wrapped up by now and he is expected to win most of the primaries/caucases this month.
The GOP better hope that Clinton is the nominee, because that’s their only chance for McCain to win. Even Frank Luntz has admitted that he doesn’t know how to beat Obama. Plus, if he DOES choose Webb. . . well that would pretty much shut up all the Reagan worshippers (Webb was the Sec of Navy under RR, the reason he left was he wanted to INCREASE the size of the Navy while Reagan wanted to cut the size!)
25. Ray | February 7th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
God, I can’t stand watching the CPAC speakers. What a whine-fest.
“Wah wah, our party nominee isn’t conservative enough for me, wah wah…..”
I’m hoping that they announce some sort of conservatives-only political party by the end of this event, just so they can hurry up and get the hell out of the Republican party.
And then we’ll watch as their candidates lose election after election…
26. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
>> Not the voices of dissention and division that your party does. Our arguments are based upon ideas.
WTF are you talking about? The GOP is the party using ‘wedge issues’ like gay marriage, affirmative action (which Powell and Condi support), the sad Schiavo affair, racially divisive ads (look at the RNC’s ad against Harold Ford, etc)
Listen to one of Obama’s speeches. His optimism and belief in the unity of the American people is what’s drawing people of ALL parties towards his candidacy. He talks about not seeing a Red America and a Blue American, not seeing a White America and a Black America, etc. “We are not as divided as our politics suggest” is his message AND he has not ruled out appointing Republicans to his cabinet. Tell me the last time a Republican did that. . .
27. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
>>But you can’t really tell her positions from the examples you gave
Well, Google what she’s said on the issues of abortion (’mildly pro-choice’ and ‘kind of libertarian’ on abortion), gay marriage (she has attended gay marriage ceremonies and BTW, Cheney thinks it should be left up to the states and is AGAINST a Constitutional Amendment- exactly what McCain’s position is!), affirmative action (’it’s needed’ as long as it doesn’t lead to quotas- so she thinks it IS RELEVANT in hiring/admittance standards), etc, etc
28. SEW | February 7th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Democrat trainwreck is brewing! Awesome sight. And the parrots are too blind to see it coming, which is even better. Obama’s cult will really start slinging mud when the handwriting appears, the Clinton smear machine becomes vicious and the wreck occurs in Denver. Screaming Howie Dean to narrate! McCain/Rice, and the Dems smear a black female!
29. Dennis | February 7th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Mark, you say, “Aside from a rote, knee-jerk slavery to various special interests (most notably the abortion industry and the public sector unions), these guys are just shadow-boxing and pretending there’s a dime’s worth of difference between Hillary and Obama…”
I must assume you’ve never read Barack Obama’s “Call to Renewal” speech from June 2006. Near the end of it he delineates his position on abortion in light of his own Christian faith. To speak of “slavery” to some “abortion industry” is ludicrous. Surely you don’t wish to violate the Commandment against bearing false witness?
In the same address Obama acknowledged “You need to embrace Christ precisely because you have sins to wash away,” a point of view not much different from what you’ve suggested numerous times on this blog.
Are you suggesting your brother in the Christian faith is a liar or hypocrite in the face of evidence to the contrary? Obama has been scrupulously fair in characterizing others who disagree with him - would it not behoove you to do the same?
(Obama’s “Call to Renewal” may be found at http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/
30. LiberalMind | February 7th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
So Romney drops out as a sacrificial move to prevent a Democratic victory in November.
What a priceless move.
You know he really is absolutely without any morals or conscience using the “vote Republican or get blown up” line.
Piece of dung he is really.
31. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
>>our arguments are based on ideas
I forgot this part. Ummm, yeah. . . the GOP ‘ideas’ seem to be:
1) tax cuts (especially for corporations and the wealthy),
2) invade other countries, be greeted as ‘liberators’,
3) ‘deficits don’t matter’ (we owe BILLIONS to the RED Chinese and the Saudi ROYALS!),
4) CHANGE the Constitution (what could be more ‘conservative’ than continually trying to modify the Constitution? Flag burning, gay marriage, pro-life amendment, etc. Hey, if there’s a marriage amendment, I think they might as well include a BIRTHDAY Amendment!)
5) Warrantless wiretaps, searches, torture, holding people indefinately without charges, etc.
6) Infringe on OTHER people’s liberties (Texas sodomy law, pornography laws, etc) while maintaining a ‘Wide stance’ hypocrite!
7)Letting lobbyists write the laws and buy Congressional support. Retire from public service to work as a lobbyist and make MILLIONS!
I could go on and on. . . You are correct, though, that the GOP has moved forward on a lot of these ideas!
The Democrats, in contrast, stand for things like: universal health care for us INSTEAD of paying for it for Iraqis, rebuilding OUR roads and bridges (instead of the Iraqis), working WITH the world community (instead of a cowboy approach), investing in new energy technology (how far would 2 TRILLION we spent on war have gone towards energy independence?), inspecting all packages coming in through our posts (which Bush wanted to turn over to Dubai), etc, etc
32. NeoClown | February 7th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
I listened to a few minutes of El Rushbo today. A young lady named Jo called in from Arkansas. As Jo choked back the tears she told El Rushbo that she had voted republican in every election since 1984. She went on to say that “hell would freeze over” before she would vote for McCain.
El Rushbo tried to soothe the caller and told her that he understood how she felt.
Jo’s phone call reminded me that this is a great time to be a democrat.
This election is the political equivalent of the Mod Squad with three liberal candidates running:
one black, one white, and one blonde.
33. Ray | February 7th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
McCain and his speech is being received with roaring applause at CPAC.
So much for a “fracturing” party.
34. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
>>This election is the political equivalent of the Mod Squad with three liberal candidates running:
one black, one white, and one blonde
McCain’s more grey than blonde these days. . .
But these ‘conservatives’ want him to select Condi Rice (a social liberal) as a running mate! THAT should shore up their base (NOT!)
PS I find it ironic that there’s so much animosity towards McCain- he IS, after all, a ‘conservative’. I REALLY don’t understand, he voted against the tax cuts BECAUSE he’s conservative and he wanted fiscal responsibility, he’s been consistently socially conservative, etc.
Meanwhile, ‘El Rushbo’ was wiling to throw out everything he says he stands for and support Guiliani (who is more like Bill Clinton than Bush) or Multiple-Choice Mitt!
Not that I’m not enjoying this fissure in the GOP!
35. Joe | February 7th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
I REALLY don’t understand, he voted against the tax cuts BECAUSE he’s conservative and he wanted fiscal responsibility
Yes… but that is AGAINST BUSH!!! Heaven forbid!
Voting against Bush only means he is obviously some un-American, fake-hero, idiotic liberal that only wants to hug terrorists, gays, and Al Gore!
36. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
>>Voting against Bush only means he is obviously some un-American, fake-hero, idiotic liberal that only wants to hug terrorists, gays, and Al Gore!
Yeah, I guess I forgot about that : ) He’s come around recently, though, and learned to LOVE tax cuts! Party loyalty, after all, trumps loyalty to the country. . .
It sure is going to make it easy, though, running against Republicans who enabled GW Bush.
Vote for Bush’s 3rd term! Vote for McCain and the GOP!
37. LiberalMind | February 7th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Witnessing the implosion of the Republicans only shows that it is genuinely “Morning in America” this time.
38. Kahn | February 7th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Coulter, the more noise you make about Condi the more it looks like she scares you. Your party votes along bigoted lines. Race, age (you just slammed McCain yourself), gender, wealth, these things define your voting blocks.
You know that while we would vote for Condi because she’s brilliant. You would lose Democrats who vote for her simply because she’s black, or a woman, or both. Your ideas of restricting speech, taxing like crazy, and withdrawing into an isolationist cocoon may not actually sing with many Democrats.
If you don’t pick Obama, or if he won’t be the VP candidate - then Condi on the Republican ticket would spell problems for you. Divisive politics would come home to roost.
The louder and more hysterically you rail against it, the more I like it.
39. Kahn | February 7th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Liberal Mind. Sure. But we have a wrapped up selection process and it’s the middle of February. Your side is in a virtual tie based upon gender and race (despicable). Tell us about how great you are.
40. Retired Spook | February 7th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Your side is in a virtual tie based upon gender and race (despicable).
And Kahn, the cruel irony (at least for the Donks) is that since Clinton’s and Obama’s ideas, principles (such as they are) and goals are nearly identical, the only way they can distinguish themselves is by gender and race. Ya gotta love it.
I suspect, in the end, McCain will pick up enough independents and moderate Republicans to more than make up for the ones who stay home. Hell, I might even vote for him if he picks the right VP.
41. neocon | February 7th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Everytime we hear about Obamas and/or Clintons delegates it’s broken down along racial and gender lines. Divide, divide, divide.
Spook, you might actually vote for McCain? My feeling is that we (Republicans) have ran this party into the ditch ourselves and it will only be us to get it back on track. We can more easily do that with McCain than we can fighting the assured complete destruction at that hands of the Dems.
McCain would be smart to pick Thompson or Romney as his VP. That’s a big if though.
42. neocon | February 7th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
As I sit here, Fox News is breaking down the vote along racial lines for Obama. Good lord, is this what we’ve come to?
43. Retired Spook | February 7th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Neocon,
I guess the way I’m trying to look at is, yeah, McCain may do some damage to the Republican Party, but either Clinton or Obama would do serious damage to the country. And I’m an American first, a Conservative second and a Republican third.
44. hermie | February 7th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
That will be the key…Will McCain want to truly mend fences with conservatives? Choosing a conservative VP who is versed in economics and social issues will offset McCain’s vunerabilities there.
I’m pessimistic, knowing McCain’s history, but we’ll see in the next couple of weeks who he is spending the most company with.
45. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
>>Coulter, the more noise you make about Condi the more it looks like she scares you. Your party votes along bigoted lines. Race, age (you just slammed McCain yourself), gender, wealth, these things define your voting blocks
It’s a great idea, Kahn! I just saw Tom Delay on Hardball really coming after McCain on everything from immigration, gun control, the environment, etc. I’m sure the way to win over Delay and folks like him is to put a liberal, black woman on the ticket!
If so, it’s a win-win, really. Because liberalism wins whichever way the election goes : ) The GOP will never be the same. . .
It’s silly to think, though, that she would do anything to siphon votes from the Democratic ticket. She was one of the principle propagandists for war in Iraq, was shoe-shopping when New Orleans drowned, and sat on the board of a big oil company. Plus, she has been integral to the Bush administration (which some Americans think has been a massive failure).
I don’t think Democrats are choosing on race or gender. We like both the candidates and, though it would be nice to see the first non-white male president (which I’m sure many Republicans would agree with), that’s not a determining factor.
Clinton is too beholden to lobbyists, carries too much baggage, Bill would be a distraction, she would mobilize the GOP, etc. Don’t get me wrong. . . if she gets the nomination, I will GLADLY vote for her.
Obama, though, inspires EVERYBODY. He would be able to bring together Republicans, Independents and Democrats because he has NOT been devisive. It has nothing to do with his race, though (I’m sure you’ll agree) it’s great to think that ANYONE can be president! He’s a self-made son of a single mom who graduated Magna Cum Laude in Constitutional Law from Harvard, taught as a professor, worked as a community lawyer and organizer, has been a congressman since 1996, and shuns donations from lobbyists, etc
I don’t think the oil executive who helped to sell the Iraq war for the Bush administration is going to help. . .
46. Freedom1 | February 7th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Kahn,
Dr. Rice is absolutely brilliant. That’s undeniable. But, in her role as Secretary of State she and President Bush have been pushing the suicidal “Road Map of Peace” and the suicidal “Two-State Solution”. Those policies are extraordinarily bad for Israel and bad for America. Her popularity with conservatives has plummeted as a result.
I’d suggest Larry Elder or Michael Steele as McCain’s VP.
…Or better yet, choose someone else other than John McCain for the Republican nomination.
47. neocon | February 7th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
>>>though it would be nice to see the first non-white male president - coulter<<<
This is just an unbelievable statement. We will never get beyond race issues with this kind of attitude. And I think the majority of republicans could not care less what skin color someone is, I know I don’t. But apparently it’s a big issue amongst the racists on the left. Right coulter?
Obama is a very personalbe man, but unlike the racists and shaloow people on the left, it’s all about issues for us. You remember issues right coulter?
48. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Well, at least I would like to be able to tell my daughters that ANYONE, including a woman, can be president. They notice little things like the fact that there haven’t been any women Presidents. I guess that makes them sexist.
Obviously, you disagree. I guess that’s part of the reason you and Tom Delay would never want Rice on the ticket. Ironic though, since Rice herself said that race should be considered as part of college applications’ admissions. I guess you would think of her as a racist, too.
49. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
BTW, everything I mentioned about Obama and Clinton were issue based. It’s obvious that you were baiting me now, since you brought up race and gender in the first place.
I will put ANY issue from Obama or Clinton up against McCain. You guys represent the past and we’ve seen what your policies lead to over the past 8 years. . . I think Americans are tired of it.
50. neocon | February 7th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
coulter,
A quick comb through the thread and I have not seen one instance where you were issue-based in your comments on Obama or Clinton. #45 is the closest one i could find where at least you mention his experience, other than being non-white, and you don’t actually spew hate against those you oppose.
So your daughters have noticed that there has yet to be a woman President? Wow. They did that all on their own? They have a firm grasp for the obvious.
It just astounds me that you CONTINUE to tout ones gender or race. What does that matter when it comes to leading the free world? I would vote for ANYONE who I felt had the experience and integrity to do the job. I honestly don’t care one bit what skin tone or gender anyone is when it comes to this important of a position.
And quit projecting what you assume I would think, I consider you to have the gray matter of a child, so assuming anything would be quite a reach for you. And what does Tom Delay have to do with anything? Often when I read your posts I just feel embarrassed for you.
51. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
>>I would vote for ANYONE who I felt had the experience and integrity to do the job. I honestly don’t care one bit what skin tone or gender anyone is when it comes to this important of a position.
Good, at least we agree.
In contrast, Kahn seems to think that merely being a black woman is enough. He may disagree with every position she takes, but he wants her on the ticket for her race/gender.
It is a coincidence, though, that your ‘color-blind’ party continually has issues with race and gender. From Citizens United Not Timed (subtle, huh?), a right-wing 527, to George Allen’s noose/Confederate flag/’N’ word problem, to Bob Jones University, to the CCC (’high-class’ version of the KKK), Trent Lott praising Thurmond, etc.
I saw that Allen spoke at the CPAC today. That’s a GREAT way to make a break with the GOP’s past problems with African Americans!
52. neocon | February 7th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
coulter,
I wont even begin to point out the hypocrisy in terms of race and gender amongst the left. Your attention span prohibits any issue older than five minutes to actually become part of your thought process. Much like the issue oriented posts you thought you were posting.
You truly are a deluded, pathetic example for your children.
53. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
BTW, pal. . .
My posts have been edited extensively to remove content and make me look stupid. . .
Obviously your posts do the same, but without the added ‘help’. . .
54. neocon | February 7th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Really,
with Matt and Mark gone and no Ed Notes attached?
Try again fool.
55. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
I assume you’ll vote for Obama, then. He’s the only one offering a truly new direction for America.
You guys have had 8 years in this country AND the neocons atttempted their idea of government in Iraq. Hasn’t worked out quite as well as expected, though, for either America or for Iraq.
56. coulterfan | February 7th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
We’ll see how November turns out. I’m glad you guys are as excited about President McCain as we are about President Obama (or Clinton). Great new ideas you guys are offering.
We’ll see who really is the fool.
57. FmrMarine | February 7th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Spook;
Ive done a 90 degree turn on mcLame.
IF he picks a good young conservative VP,
he is 72 yo.
The average US male life expectancy is 73-74.If we can use him to beat the donks, maybe he will only have a couple of years destroying the country until he joins many of our former presidents.
His legacy will be leaving a young conservative to finish his term and be re-elected.
There may be a light at the end of this dark mcLame tunnel.
58. FmrMarine | February 7th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
coulterfan;
I hope you are an african!
here is the CHANGE earbama will give you.
Trinity United Church of Christ
About Us
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian… Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain “true to our native land,” the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.
Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:
1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Black Community
3. Commitment to the Black Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.
59. Kahn | February 7th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Freedom - Steele is good. Smart guy. I remember when Maryland Democrats illegally obtained his credit records under fraudulent means to try and discredit him.
I’d like to count though all the “friendly advice” coulter and other liberals here are giving on Rice. She REALLY scares them. They know that their party is all about class/gender/race warfare. Condi is smart, black, and a woman. A deadly combination to the Democrat strategy.
I know she’s conservative on guns. And I know people that know her fairly well personally and really like and respect her. That pulls a lot of weight with me. She inherited a pretty messed up foreign situation and she’s not 100% calling the shots. I like her.
Really the more liberals really freak out at the suggestion, the more I like here. Read some of these liberal posts. “She’s too liberal”,blah, blah, blah. Consider the sources and realize she terrifies them.
60. Freedom1 | February 7th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Kahn,
Yes, Dr. Rice really scares liberals. She’s amazing and extraordinarily accomplished. She’s certainly not “too liberal”. I’d never even heard that until just now.
However, she and President Bush are pushing a suicidal policy towards Israel and many, many conservatives are extremely upset with that policy. You might want to look into the conservative comments on other internet blogs and conservative talk shows when the subject of the Israeli-Palestinian crisis arises. It’s not pretty.
61. Dennis | February 7th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
FmrMarine, you bring up all this chaff about Trinity United Church of Christ. Rather than focus on any local congregation’s web statement, I’d suggest you focus more on what the man in question, Barack Obama, openly professes to believe.
If you’ve never read his “Call to Renewal” from June 2006, it might be enlightening for you to do so. Obama acknowledges “You need to embrace Christ precisely because you have sins to wash away,” a fundamental point of view not much different from what Mark Noonan has suggested numerous times on this blog.
In short, Barack Obama is a Christian who acknowledges the essential fallen nature of humanity, and he has found personal salvation in Jesus Christ. Your focus on the cultural trappings of his local congregation is a smokescreen to obscure what is basic and common to all Christian believers.
Barack Obama is my brother in the Christian faith. An essential underpinning of his campaign has been the determination to reject the divisive tactics and thinking of traditional partisan politics. Moreover he has been scrupulously fair in characterizing others who disagree with him - would it not behoove you to do the same?
(Obama’s “Call to Renewal” http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/ )
62. Kahn | February 7th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Freedom - Well, 60 years of conflict over Israel with 40 of those years after the six day war are too long.
Part of the argument for being in Iraq is that now we have power in the region. Israel itself offered the Palestinians a separate state. Just without Jerusalem. And frankly, it’s not our country and it’s an excuse for every dictator, royal family, and wacko in the region to do anything they want. No-one in the region is our friend - no-one.
Israel is in many ways as big of jerks as any Arabs. They would shut off the water in Arab villages when they built new settlements. They blow up the houses of family members of bombers. And really, they care more about themselves than us. My friends in the IC tell me they are the number three spiers on us behind Russia and China.
Sixty years is long enough.
63. Almiranta | February 8th, 2008 at 1:48 am
Joe/Ray/Mindless—-how do you people stand to live inside those nastly little minds? I hoped that when Bush was nearing the end of his term you would let your addiction to spite and malice and sheer nastiness start to fade away, but here we are, not even through the primaries, and all you can do is hurl insults and ephitets.
These vile comments have nothing to do with the election, nothing to do with issues, nothing to do with political philosophies—nothing to do with anything but a dedication to being the nastiest pieces of work you can be.
Ick………….
64. Jeremiah | February 8th, 2008 at 3:37 am
Dennis,
Barack proclaims he’s a “Christian.” But he’s not willing to put forth an effort - to put faith into action. Why? He wants to continue the slaughter of innocent unborn children.
Not very Christian! At all!
–Jeremiah–
65. Freedom1 | February 8th, 2008 at 4:04 am
Kahn, I like you and respect you, but on Israel you are dead wrong. Israel is our only ally in the region. America needs to protect Israel from the Muslim terrorists who have been attempting to destroy Israel and drive the Jews into the sea for the last 60 years. The Bible says that in the End Times the nations of the world will come against Israel. It’s happening, right now. America needs to be a shield to protect Israel.
Laterzzzzzzz
66. Buddy | February 8th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
My options for VP ??
John Warner, Virginia..
Served on committee for armed serves, Intellegence and homeland security.
Also a key member in currently drafting new climate legislation
2nd choice??
Gordon Smith, Oregon
Smith serves on five major Senate committees: Commerce, Science, and Transportation, Energy and Natural Resources, Indian Affairs, and the powerful Finance Committee. He also serves as the Ranking Member of the Special Committee on Aging. In addition, he is a member of the Senate Western Water and Rural Health Caucuses as well as the Chairman of the High Tech Task Force. Smith is also co-chairman of the Senate Task Force on Medicare and Prescription Drugs and has been selected by leadership three times to be a Deputy Whip.
Provides the GOP with a great cross-section of experience and senators who have actual experience in a broad range of issues.
Besides, it ads a a west coast flavor to the Administration, something that’s been missing since RR.
67. Kahn | February 8th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Freedom, I know where your coming from. But they spy on us almost as much as the Chinese. And, this war over there needs to end. All we are doing is taking away the threat of outside intervention from neighboring countries so they can make a deal with the Palestinians.
68. Freedom1 | February 8th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Kahn, the Palestinians want to annihilate Israel and the Jews of Israel. You can’t make a deal with someone who wants to kill you.
It sounds to me like you’ve been getting your information on Israel and the Palestinians from the MSM which always makes the Palestianians look good (while they are launching daily rocket attacks on Israel) and always makes the Israelis look bad. Don’t believe it. Spend a few weeks on LGF and your undestanding of the real Israel-Palestianian situation will increase exponentially. Start with this LGF thread:
Hamas: We’re Allowed to Lie - “A Muslim is permitted to say things that oppose his beliefs in order to prevent damages or to be saved from death.”
69. Joe | February 8th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Freedom,
I’m not trying to shoot down the messenger or anything, but you really need to get your information from somewhere other than other blogs.
I’m not sure who gets off more you or FmrMarine when it comes to waging war on a religion.
You people are sick.
70. Kahn | February 8th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
First off - Joe GFY. The adults are talking.
Freedom. If Hamas really wants to try it, then by all means they should. But they are cowards. Something needs to push it to a head. War or Peace - they decide.
Most of my information on the region comes from military and State Department friends. The thing about their tendency to spy on us comes from a close friend at State. But I’ve heard the same thing from FBI friends and acquaintances at other three letter agencies.
But the truth is, the effort is probably doomed for exactly the reasons you list.
71. FmrMarine | February 9th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
dennis
I believe him to be “A WOLF in SHEEPS CLOTHING”
One can not be an ACTIVE member and participant of an organization IE his “church” and be set apart from it.
It speaks volumes of what he will DO, and where his values lie if elected.
Would you be backing David Duke?
he is a christian also, is he YOUR brother in Christ?
let us know we are waiting!
72. Freedom1 | February 9th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
“First off - Joe GFY. The adults are talking.”- Kahn
LoL.
“But they are cowards…”- Kahn
You’re so right. Hamas, Islamic Jihad and all the other Muslim terrorists are cowards.
“Something needs to push it to a head. War or Peace - they decide.”- Kahn
I agree 100%. It’s been this ridiculous, bloody and violent quasi-war-peace for too damn long. Israel should get a good military leader and destroy the terrorists which surround them.
Glad to hear about your news sources. Also, I believe you that Israel spies on us. I don’t particularly like it, but it’s not something which keeps me up at night. Now, China spying on the US and hacking into our Pentagon computers does anger me greatly. …And Russia, and (a long list of other hostile nations).
Anyway, sigh…. It’s doesn’t look like the Israeli-Palestinian situation is going to be resolved until the Second Coming.
See ya laterzzz.
:)