90 Comments

• 1. excessf  |  February 9th, 2008 at 6:30 am

  Obama’s position has been for a phased redeployment of troops from Iraq, sure some troops would come home right away, but it’s by no means an “immediate” withdrawal.

• 2. french student  |  February 9th, 2008 at 7:07 am

  According to the artcle you linked to :

  “59% of Americans would like to see U.S. troops brought home from Iraq within a year”

  “Twenty-five percent (25%) now want the troops brought home immediately.”

  “35% want troops to remain in Iraq until the mission is complete”

  So, supposing those who want the troops home within a year include those who want the troops home now, and after a little maths, we have :

  25% want the troops home now

  34% (59-25) want them home sometimes between now and 365 days from now.

  35% want them to stay until the mission is complete

  6% either have no opinion or want the troops home sometimes between a year from now and when the mission is accomplished (like in two years at the most, and so on).

  So I suppose to get the 69% number you cited, you lump together those who want a short timetable for withdrawal, but acknowledge that there are logistical problems to moving such a large number of people, and such quantities of hardware (remember, it is not like moving an army can be done at the drop of a hat) and those who write a blank check to the bush administration.

  Seems kinda dishonest to me.
  Oh well at least you refrained from throwing the “no opinion” crowd in there with them.

  But hey, you are probably one who thinks the “no-spin zone” is actually just that, are you not?

• 3. Marty13  |  February 9th, 2008 at 7:35 am

  Mark, you’re killing me! Talk about “good news” mining. I would venture to say that even the most news starved shut-in knows that an immediate withdrawal would place our assets in a precarious position. Any force reduction from would have to deliberate and executed with personnel safety foremost. Seriously, anyone over 40 can conjure up images of Saigon’s evacuation.
  To somehow spin this RasReport as an oblique approval of this debacle, frankly makes you look silly.

• 4. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 8:38 am

  Marty,

  The following link may shed some light into your dark, agenda-driven, myopic world. It’s an example of a free Iraq protecting free Iraqis, and also an example of how building allies is really done.

  http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16904&Itemid=1

• 5. js  |  February 9th, 2008 at 9:15 am

  The liberal Americans for Democratic Action
  rates Obama’s voting record in the Senate at 97.5
  percent, near perfection for liberal Democrats. The
  American Conservative Union, the ADA’s ideological
  opposite, rates Obama’s voting record at a rockbottom
  8 percent. Both ratings leave no doubt that
  Obama’s actual votes mark him as a traditionally
  liberal Democrat, not a moderate.

  Obama’s inconsistency on Iraq is amply documented.
  He’s been alternately for and against withholding
  funding for the troops, for and against setting
  timelines for withdrawal, and for and against a
  quick retreat from Iraq.
  Whatever one’s views on Iraq strategy and homefront
  support, these vacillations on a war in progress
  don’t inspire confidence; in Obama’s judgment, his
  grasp of Iraq realities and his constancy of purpose.
  Whatever this is, it isn’t leadership.

  Robert J. Caldwell
  Obama Exposed.

• 6. JD  |  February 9th, 2008 at 9:29 am

  Absolutely the US military should be out of Iraq within the year. Tomorrow would be OK.

• 7. Marty13  |  February 9th, 2008 at 9:31 am

  neo, good to hear from you. Now I ask you, where in my post do you see a agenda-driven, myopic world. I mention only the obvious that any disengagement from Iraq will have to have force safety as a preeminent concern. Hell, even the lowest, sorry-assed recruit will tell you that. Oh yeah, I also mention the mess that was our inglorious exit from VietNam. Unlike this current administration, I think there are considerable lessons to be learned from history.
  BTW, your hyperlink is a pretty nice site. I wonder though, how many local potholes could’ve been filled, police hired or kids provided with newer texts with the money that went towards these efforts towards justifying our “Adventures in Iraq.”
  After 5 years, millions of training hours and billions of dollars…….neither the Iraqi military or police could be described as anything but sub-standard. No amount of web based happy talk utilizing little but anecdotal evidence will change that.
  Think of yourself and your own military experience. At what level of proficiency where you personally after 3 months, 6 months….2 years of training?

• 8. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 9:33 am

  JD,

  Do you believe that America should act in the best interests of foreign governments?

  http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2217387,00.html

• 9. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 9:38 am

  Marty,

  So you’d rather fill potholes than protect our global neighbors from an extreme element that is preying upon their lives daily? That is what I mean by myopic.

  To deny the incredible daily successes of the efforts of the 300,000+ ISF forces is just to be in an agenda-drive frame of mind. Period.

  And no amount of denigration from the left for purely political reasons can deny that.

• 10. phil  |  February 9th, 2008 at 9:38 am

  Mark,

  I saw that poll. It also said that by a 72% plurality Amreicans favored the immediate withdrawl of…uh, how do I put this delicately…the withdrawl from the American anal orifice of the Bush protuberance with which Bush has perpetrated an unending anal rape of the American people for the last 7+ years. As for the 28% of the people who favor the continuation of said rape, well that’s a poll for another day.

  Enjoy your weekend!

• 11. Diane Tomlinson  |  February 9th, 2008 at 9:49 am

  Here’s the thing Noonan, I’m with you on the Pottery Barn thing which to me means if you break it you buy it. But America as a net debtor nation cannot afford Iraq, but the fact remains that America finished break what Saddam was keeping together with spit and baling wire and lots of fear.

  That said you have to be able to define what the end of mission is. is it when the iraqis can fight the insurgency and al Qaeda on their own with the support of the average Iraqi? No, because you and I both know that would take a minimum of twenty years and trillions of dollars that the US Treasury doesn’t have.

  Does it mean political stability that can lead to a redeployment of US force to Kuwait, Qatar or the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan? Better solution that can be achieved in 5 years at the cost of half a trillion dollars US.

  Could a Chinese led UN peacekeeping force be the answer? Bingo! But that would signal the rise of Chinese military hegemony on the face of Terra as the PLA does the job the US could not, winning the hearts and minds of the Iraq people while at the same time disarming the nation. We all know the PLA is possibly the most brutal army on Terra and in that land this is what you need. US ROE has crippled the effectiveness in Iraq of the armed forces and this will be reviewed back at the Pentagon creating policy revisions to be used for decades to come.

  You’ve got to be able to define “winning” and “success” and “end of mission” Noonan. They aren’t just buzzwords they have to be tied to realities for the conditions on the ground not just ticks on a political score card in DC.

• 12. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 9:51 am

  Mark,

  Please delete the juvenile drivel of phil. Someone of his low level of intelligence and inability to seperate himself from his puppet masters should also be banned from the sight. We need to raise the level of intelligent discourse and allowing phil a platform will continue to lower the overall intelligence quotient.

• 13. plainjane  |  February 9th, 2008 at 9:57 am

  After witnessing Nixon’s withdrawal from Vietnam, the American people are smart enough to know a planned phased withdrawal is best for our troops and the nation. With past visions of incompetence shown by this administration I am willing to wait for a Democratic President so that the withdrawal is performed properly and does not leave behind lethal weapons that will one day be used against us. Republicans would just leave weapons behind knowing they can get more money to replace them.

• 14. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:03 am

  Diane,

  I thought I might just shed some light into the dark, stupid recesses of your small mind.

  ….But America as a net debtor nation cannot afford Iraq, - Diane……

  Our current debt is less of a percent of overall GDP than it was throughout the 90’s

  …..but the fact remains that America finished break what Saddam was keeping together with spit and baling wire and lots of fear. - Diane….

  The link below debunks your agenda driven assertion.

  http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gwBg5fmBBYon3LTK0CBQlE6UgFpgD8UKE3TO0

  …..No, because you and I both know that would take a minimum of twenty years - Diane…..

  Again, a link to completely reveal your ignorance

  http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16911&Itemid=128

  The success of the mission has been defined ad nauseum, but obviously your puppet masters have precluded you from opening your mind to realize it.

  Diane, your one of my more favorite deluded liberals. Your posts and propaganda also are the most easily debunked.

• 15. js  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:04 am

  “No, because you and I both know that would take a minimum of twenty years and trillions of dollars that the US Treasury doesn’t have. “-

  11. Diane Tomlinson

  Whut? thats a flat out lie and you know it. Turkey is a secular Democracy. All we gotta do is set Iraq up to reflect the same political system. Twenty years!! How simple minded you must think we are.

  What an insult to our intelligence.

• 16. JD  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:06 am

  JD,

  Do you believe that America should act in the best interests of foreign governments?

  neocon,

  No, I do not. America should act in the best interests of Americans.

• 17. Diane Tomlinson  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:10 am

  Neocon,

  Sure the ISF are doing a great job under some very difficult circumstances, but the question remains how long does America commit 130 000 troops to securing Iraq? It will take 50 months to bring all the American soldiers and materiel back to CONUS so the discussion about immediate withdrawal is just political pap.

  Let’s play in the real world.

  What Iraq needs, other than the removal of al Qaeda and the insurgency from within its borders, is a Marshall Plan, an all inclusive security, political and infrastructure plan that takes ten years and pours trillions of dollars into the nation that Saddam broke and the US smashed. This is something that as I stated in the comment above cannot be done by the US alone. Securing help from China, Europe, India and other allies to create a global coalition will be the job of the next President and will be the paramount mission after addressing the issues of the declining US dollar and the crisis in the mortgage commercial paper markets.

  America can rebuild iraq with help and claim a huge victory over al Qaeda, but it will take time and it will not be a partisan victory for the GOP it will be a victory for Americans as a nation and HUman Beings as a species.

• 18. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:11 am

  JD,

  Then do you support Americas actions as they pertain to helping those AIDS victims in Africa, helping those people in Indoenesia recover from the Tsunami, helping those people in Bosnia fight off genocide, and helping those illegal immigrants that want to come to America for a better life?

  All of those actions are not in the best interests of Americans. Please respond, I anxiously await your answer.

• 19. liberalT  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:13 am

  when you guys lose in November and we start withdrawing this will all be academic - so sorry Noonan - wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong

• 20. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:16 am

  Diane,

  1% of homes are in foreclosure and only 6% of mortgagess are having difficulty paying. It is a concern, but hardly the insurmountable obstacle the media portrays.

  Iraq will take time but I disagree that we need immediate infusion of additional help. To suggest so is to completely denigrate the Iraqis themselves. What is being done now in Iraq is more of a security mission than a war, and that effort is being led more and more by the ISF and the Iraqis. We will begin to bring troops home next year and the Iraqis, under their new flag, will being to secure Iraq themselves.

• 21. JD  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:22 am

  Helping AIDS victims - good
  Assistance for disaster relief - good
  Military interventions - bad
  Helping ILLEGAL immigrants - bad

• 22. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:29 am

  JD,

  So in other words, you do advocate America supporting the best interests of “allied” foreign governments (I forgot to preface allied in front of foreign governments). Helping AIDS victims in Africa takes a tremendous strain off of the government of those beleagured African nations. Helping Indonesia recover from the Tsunami was essential as they were completely incapable of handling it on their own. And mind you, it was the military that went to Indonesia, so that was a military intervention.

  Do you then advocate the border wall and the deportation of illegal immigrants?

• 23. Diane Tomlinson  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:34 am

  Neocon,
  To me mission completion meands 30 000 US troops permanently in or around Iraq as a RRF. How long do you think it will take for the US to be drawn down to that point. Two years, five, ten?

  You are likely very secure in your own home finance condition but the percentages mean nothing regarding foreclosure. You need to look at the value of the bad commercial paper tied to mortagages in the United States for a real picture of the crisis. This is more than just a MSM doom and gloom scenario. There is $US 1.2 trillion in bad commercial paper out there and that represents 5% of the value of the US housing market. That’s the 880 pound Gorilla that Merill, Citi, Goldman Sachs and the like are trying to keep out of the press.

  Bad juju man bad juju

• 24. JD  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:38 am

  Helping victims of AIDS and natural disasters demonstrates the benevolent nature of American character. It is a right and Christian thing to do.

  A border wall is a waste of time and resources. If someone is here illegally he should respect and obey the laws of our land. That means go home and try again using the proper legal means to come here.

• 25. phil  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:42 am

  Neocon,

  One of my puppet masters instructed me to tell you to to learn how to spell. He went on to say that it is the ability to spell which “seperates” those of us in the puppet oriented community from the knuckle dragging bottom feeders on the right. Gotta go, Sesame Street is coming on!

  Have a nice weekend

• 26. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:46 am

  Excellent phil,

  Rather than addressing issues, you prefer to find typos. Just what I would expect from someone who allows others to do their thinking.

• 27. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:54 am

  Diane,

  About two years, and according to your numbers, which are nearly correct, 95% of mortgages are secured. Not completely healthy, but hardly the disaster you paint it to be. Secondly, many of those people in those situations have only themselves to blame for trying to buy to much home on too little income. Also, Congress has some culpability in this by demanding that lenders make mortgages available to lower income families and I have zero sympathy for those lending institutions that complied to that demand by lending at exhorbitant interest rates and bad loan structures. This housing “crisis” will begin to correct itself by 2009.

  JD,

  You’re sadly mistaken if you think illegal immigration will correct itself.

• 28. kjstrouble  |  February 9th, 2008 at 11:20 am

  Neo,

  I would ignore JD as much as possible. Just to get an idea of what he stands for, I went to his web site. Extreme Liberal would be a good description with Code Pink referenced as one of his favorite blogs/web sites. Of course, he also lists Nascar. Not sure what that makes him, but the “Brown Shirt” rant on the page says a lot, and none of it very complimentary.

  JD - if a person came here illegally, why would you think that they would suddenly start obeying the laws they have scorned?

• 29. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 11:29 am

  Good advice kj,

  I am guilty of addressing their tired old propaganda far too often.

• 30. TiredofLibBullShit  |  February 9th, 2008 at 11:42 am

  I see the USEFUL IDIOTS planejane and liberalt have returned with their propaganda and usual stupity.

  If we do lose in November it is because the Democrats and liberals have successfully cultivated a majority culture of brainless idiots with their hands-out, who want to steal from the “rich”, line their own pockets with their government stolen booty and will consistently vote DEMOCRAT. Which is what the Democrat party have been striving for, for years.

  planejane, liberalt, liberalnomind and the rest do not want leaders. They want nannies. These are people who probably work for the government, because they cannot get jobs in the real world.

• 31. SEW  |  February 9th, 2008 at 11:59 am

  As the Iraq war continues to improve, even the parrots posting here are changing their position from cut and run to a phased withdrawal. Previously the game plan by liberals was cut and run period, GWB’s position has always been to follow the conditions on the ground and the professional military recommendations. New polls and obvious success and the parrots here and Dem politicions are changing from cut and run to phased withdrawal.

• 32. Diane Tomlinson  |  February 9th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

  So Tired, all those Bible College Girls like Monica Goodling in the DOJ should be quitting their career hire job and risk life and limb out in the real world trying to get jobs with law firms? That would terrify them more than not being able to pray in the conference rooms or having to take their Bibles off their desks.
  So you are going to give you stimulus package check back to the IRS I take it?

• 33. bozo the neoclown  |  February 9th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

  TiredofLibBullShit
  “If we do lose in November it is because:”
  Let me complete the rest for you:

  people are tired of seeing the middle class being systematically dismantled.

  people are tired of being in debt to communist China thanks to the coward of crawford in the white house.

  people are tired of the “if you’re not marching lockstep with us neoclowns, you’re a traitor”

  people of tired of neoclowns pissing on their legs and telling us it’s raining.

• 34. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

  And people of tired of liberal propagandists perpetuating half truths

• 35. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

  I will correct that:

  people are tired of liberal propagandists perpetuating LIES

• 36. Magnum Serpentine  |  February 9th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

  Yawn…..Rasmussen again….

  next???

• 37. Nietzsche-Is-Pietzsche  |  February 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

  Neocon-

  Sounds like you just had a Freudian slip moment.
  Don’t worry it happens to the best of us.

  Like when Sean Hannity said he didn’t have time to refute every FACT.

• 38. phil  |  February 9th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

  Neocon,

  The people who do my thinking for me suggested that I call you an asshole, but I’ll refrain. They also told me to suggest that your frantic rear-guard action against the forces of reason is wearing a little thin these days. The overwhelming majority of sentient beings on the planet can clearly see the colossal damage that Bush and his congressional republican acolytes have done to the country, it’s left to people like you to plaintively bleat that we’re all wrong. Sure, it’s unseemly, but it’s also quite amusing. Keep it up!

  The people who think for me also suggested that I send you a dictionary, where should I tell them to send it?

• 39. Kahn  |  February 9th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

  Only 14% of the military is Democrat - so what do you liberals even know? Why should we care what your ignorant opinions are?

  10) Regardless of whether you think the U.S. should have gone to war in Iraq, how likely is the U.S. to succeed?

  Very likely to succeed -19.5%
  Somewhat likely to succeed -42%
  Not very likely to succeed -23.1%
  Not at all likely to succeed -9.5%
  No opinion -2%
  Decline to answer -3.8%

  http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2007activepoll_iraq.php

  The military seems more optomistic than you are. You know, the people who are actually there and who actually know what they’re talking about?

  But why let facts get in the way when hate and ignorance fill in the gaps so nicely?

• 40. TiredofLibBullShit  |  February 9th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

  bozo the assclown, let me educate your sorry ass…..

  “people are tired of seeing the middle class being systematically dismantled.”

  Studies have shown that the middle is shrinking because more people are moving from the middle class into the upper class and fewer are moving into the middle class into the lower class. The studies are out there.

  Why are the liberals in control want to swell the ranks of the middle class by taxing the hell out of the upper class and redistributing this wealth to the lower class? Why do liberals force middle class families to pay confiscatory taxes for their darling projects and other deadbeat programs? Why do liberals lobby on behalf of lawyers who sue every aspect of life, which cause prices to go up on medical care, prescription drugs, etc. etc. Why do liberals force both parents to work with their assinine “economic programs” that do nothing but foster the dependent class?

  “people are tired of being in debt to communist China thanks to the coward of crawford in the white house.” Why did liberals enable thousands of manufacturing jobs to be moved to China? Why do liberals support organizations that price the American workers out of jobs? Why do liberals preech doom and gloom and then say you can’t make it without our help? Why do liberals fight at every turn against a balanced budget legislation?

  “people are tired of the ?if you?re not marching lockstep with us neoclowns, you?re a traitor?” Your usual brainless lib propaganda. These traitors think that dissent is the highest form of patriotism. These traitors undermine the fight against terrorists, for example, revealing ways to track illegal cash and money laundering schemes to terrorist organizations. Oh, that’s not treason……..

  “people of tired of neoclowns pissing on their legs and telling us it?s raining.” oh you mean, socialized medicine, global warming, peak oil, education success is directly proportional to funding - the same with AIDS, etc, etc, etc. Oh, and the positive messages of hope will solve all our problems and protect us from “terrorists” and the war on terror is just a bumper sticker slogan.

  it’s obvious, assclown, that you believe the bullshit you are shoveling. If you believe that then you believe:

  believe that Hillary’s tears were genuine … and not pure electoral manipulation.
  That Hillary married bill for love, and not for power.
  That Hillary really did believe that the whole Monica Lewinsky thing was cooked up by a bunch of right wingers
  That Hillary actually didn’t know that those Rose Law Firm billing records were in her possession for the entire two years that she was swearing to congress, under oath, that she did not know where they were.
  That she didn’t have anything to do with firing the White House travel office staff, and that even if she did she most certainly didn’t say “fire their asses.”
  That she knew nothing about her husband’s pardon for those FALN Puerto Rican terrorists just before the New York Senatorial election, and that she was as surprised as we were when she got the Puerto Rican vote in New York!
  That Hillary didn’t know that there was a photographer, hired by her and her husband, hiding in the palms on that beach in St. Thomas to snap a picture of her dancing with her “husband.”
  That Hillary dances with her husband all the time!
  That Hillary holds the men and women who serve in our armed forces in actual high regard.
  That Hillary didn’t eventually cost the U.S. Taxpayers $73 million by using her position at the Rose Law Firm to shelter a failing savings and loan association.
  Hillary didn’t hire Craig Livingstone an had no clue that he was gathering FBI files on Clinton enemies.

  Assclown, count yourself among the millions of mindless USEFUL IDIOTS that will vote for a DEMOCRAT nanny, rather than a leader.

• 41. Doug  |  February 9th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

  Our military has been in Germany and Japan for 60 years, for Korea nearly as long. If Hillobama tries to attack McCain on his ‘100 years’ they are going to get slapped silly. Of course I want a military presence in Iraq for 100 years, I’d love to have a military presence all over the world for over 100 years. All that means is that we would have peace and stability and the blessing of foreign governments for at least that long. If we don’t have a military presence in Iraq and the middle east 100 years from now then I can honestly say that the U.S. really messed up somehow, sounds like Obama and Hillary doesn’t want diplomatic success.

• 42. TiredofLibBullShit  |  February 9th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

  USEFUL IDIOT phil….

  “The people who do my thinking for me…..”

  Thanks for admitting what the libs who secretly dear to them.

  It explains alot for the likes of liberalt, assclown, liberalnomind, CW etc. etc. etc. All are mindless puppets and will gladly give up their freedom and liberty for the nanny state.

  Pathetic.

  Diane - i will not give back my check - the government already takes 40% of my income (and I am far from “rich”) through all taxes and fees imposed on practically every aspect of life (and they are looking for more ways to do it). Here is a suggestion, track every single tax that you pay - sales taxes, energy taxes, gasoline taxes, communication taxes, property taxes, education taxes, all government imposed fees etc. etc. etc.. It really is an eye opener how much they take from you and then demand more. When the word “tax cut” is mentioned, it is the end of the world.

• 43. TiredofLibBullSh**  |  February 9th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

  Doug,

  Several questions liberals can never answer in their support for the war against Melosevic:

  What was the threat to the US?
  Melosevic did not have WMDs - what was the reason for invasion?
  The intelligence on the “mass graves” was proven faulty - why was he not being harrassed by the same crowd today? Where are the no confidence votes?
  Why did Clinton invade without approval from the UN?
  What was the exit strategy?
  Why are our troops still there?
  Why are we rebuilding the country?
  Why did Clinton have the Air Force bomb from extremely high altitudes where precision guided weapons become extremely inaccurate, where collateral damage is more likely? War crimes?
  Why was the Chinese embassy bombed?

  Funny, they never have an answer for these - they just blame Bush.

• 44. Casper  |  February 9th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

  Kahn,
  You better check with Mark. He says the Military Times poll is a bogus poll and worthless.

• 45. phil  |  February 9th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

  Tired,

  I supposed you would be outraged to know that earmark spending (commonly referred to as “pork barrel” spending by a factor of 10X in the first 4 years of Bush and the republican congressional majority. Source for that information is the conservative Heritage foundation. You would be outraged if you weren’t such a witless cretin.

  Have a nice weekend!

• 46. bongoman  |  February 9th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

  If we don’t have a military presence in Iraq and the middle east 100 years from now…

  Oee way to guarantee future terrorist attacks - keep our troops in the Middle East for ever. The Middle East is not ours - get over your imperialist fantasy. When will the USA learn that the rest of the world is not theirs to keep meddling in. The rest of the world is not just one permament military base.

  As ye reap…

• 47. Barak  |  February 9th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

  phil | February 9th, 2008 at 9:38 am
  Mark,

  I saw that poll. It also said that by a 72% plurality Amreicans favored the immediate withdrawl of…uh, how do I put this delicately…the withdrawl from the American anal orifice of the Bush protuberance with which Bush has perpetrated an unending anal rape of the American people for the last 7+ years. As for the 28% of the people who favor the continuation of said rape, well that’s a poll for another day.

  Enjoy your weekend!

  George Washington:

  “If, to please the people, we offer what we ourselves disapprove, how can we afterward defend our work? Let us raise a standard to which the wise and the honest can repair; the event is in the hand of God.”

  The event he was speaking of was the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, where he was later, unanimously voted in as Chairman of the proceedings.

  Thank God our forefathers had the foresite to know that the people were NOT right all the time.

  If I recall, 85% of the country supported GB upon invasion of Afghanistan and later Iraq, with a small departure from the 85% pertaining to Iraq.

  Now only 35% support the mission and pure victory!

  I am proud to say I am part of that 35%, my family has risen above and beyond to support the mission and it’s troops.

  Thank God George Bush has the principle to uphold what is right regardless of the masses and their redundant, pointless polls!

• 48. phil  |  February 9th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

  Barak,

  Better keep up that good relationship with your buddy God, cause we’ll sure as hell need his help to repair the damage after Bush and the Republicans have tried to destroy the country these last 7 years.

  And one other thing, anybody who would dream to compare George Bush and George Washington is an idiot. I hope for your sake that this is not what you were doing.

  On second thought, I just realized that you used the term “pure victory” with regard to Iraq. You are indeed an idiot.

  But have a nice weekend anyway.

• 49. Casper  |  February 9th, 2008 at 4:55 pm

  Barak,
  Let me say that I am proud that I opposed the invasion of Iraq at the beginning and I oppose our continued involvement today. I am also proud that my family and I have supported our troops throughout the conflict.

• 50. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 5:23 pm

  phil,

  Do you cry when Obama speaks of his kingdom? How many drive thru customers have you had today?

• 51. sleepygene  |  February 9th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

  I know I will cry tears of joy when Obama beats the piss out of McCain this november.

• 52. TiredofLibBullSh**  |  February 9th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

  “I supposed you would be outraged to know that earmark spending (commonly referred to as “pork barrel” spending by a factor of 10X in the first 4 years of Bush and the republican congressional majority. Source for that information is the conservative Heritage foundation”

  Uh, phil….yep I am outraged. Are you outraged that the Dems ran on lower spending (yet again) but did no such thing when they achieved control (yet again).

  You mindless morons have fallen for this crap for time and again. Unlike you, who only sees what the “other guy” does, I notice both sides. That is why you and your ilk will always be USEFUL IDIOTS of the left.

  Yet again, liberals bitch about spending (when they are not in control) and when “the other side” wants a balance budget amendment, they say that it can be done without it and/or fit it tooth and nail.

  Don’t bother bringing up the “surplus” at the end of slick willie’s tenure. Those were projected and 9/11 and the impact to the economy because of it took care of that. Long before pork ever did.

  Continue to wallow in your self inflicted misery.

• 53. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

  Casper,

  I am sure there soon will be many decent Iraqi families that will have a lot to say to people like you who indirectly advocated their continued oppression by wanting to do nothing.

  What do you think you’ll say to them?

• 54. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

  sleepy,

  How many skirts do you own?

• 55. Casper  |  February 9th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

  “I am sure there soon will be many decent Iraqi families that will have a lot to say to people like you who indirectly advocated their continued oppression by wanting to do nothing.

  What do you think you’ll say to them?’

  I’m sure I would say the same thing you would say to the 2 million decent Iraqis who were kicked out of their homes due to this war.

• 56. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

  They were kicked out of their homes? When? Do you have the eviction notices that I could look at?

  Had you ever thought that many of them had wanted to leave for a long time and could not because of the previous oppressive regime? Probably not right?

  But then the ones that want to come back have:

  64000 Iraqis Returned Back From Syria Last 3 Months
  Karbala’, Jan.7

  http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/01/64000-iraqis-return-home-from-syria.html

  And I see that you didn’t answer my question.

• 57. Casper  |  February 9th, 2008 at 6:25 pm

  “64000 Iraqis Returned Back From Syria Last 3 Months”

  Only 1,936,000 to go.

  “Had you ever thought that many of them had wanted to leave for a long time and could not because of the previous oppressive regime?”

  And you have some proof on that? I didn’t think so.

  “And I see that you didn’t answer my question.”

  And I see you didn’t answer mine.

• 58. Kahn  |  February 9th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

  Casper, don’t let the prejudice and hatred detroy your reason. Stop, read, think.

  You now take contrarian views on anything a conservative poster says. You dismiss polls of the nation, or Iraq, of the military that show you to be wrong. And now you pull numbers out of your ass (or a liberal blogs ass). You used to claim to be independent. You’re just a drunk parrot now.

• 59. Ricorun  |  February 9th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

  neocon: Had you ever thought that many of them had wanted to leave for a long time and could not because of the previous oppressive regime?

  Yeah Casper. Don’t you realize there was a big pent-up demand among Iraqis to see the world? Okay, maybe the vantage point from a refugee camp wasn’t the best, but at least they got some camping in.

  Seriously neocon, you can’t really believe what you’re saying, can you? Do you really believe that most Iraqis were motivated to “see the world” rather than fleeing violence?

• 60. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 6:41 pm

  Most Iraqis? 2 million out of a country of 27 million constitutes most Iraqis? Hmmm.

  And most Iraqis have fled because of the violence, the extreme Islamic violence, which is more than they could have done under Saddam. Then they just had to live with the violence and people like Casper were OK with that. But now that the US Military and the ISF have brought about secuirty and peace they’re returning. Baghdad real estate is booming. The following is a great read for non agenda-driven minions. Everyday liberal talking points become less relevant.

  http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article2910440.ece

• 61. Casper  |  February 9th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

  “You dismiss polls of the nation, or Iraq, of the military that show you to be wrong.”

  Not true, Mark is the one who said the Militarytimes poll is bogus. To be honest, I disagree.

  I have never questioned the results from Rasmussen, although I do disagree with Mark’s interpretation of some.

  “You now take contrarian views on anything a conservative poster says.”

  Like when I said I supported Romney, or the many times I’ve come out against Clinton.

  “And now you pull numbers out of your ass (or a liberal blogs ass).”

  What numbers did I pull out of my ass? I don’t believe I’ve ever copied numbers from a liberal blog and posted them here.

• 62. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

  So now the left harbors disdain for gays? Why does the left hate so much?

  BILL MAHER: … and concentrate on what all Republicans have in common … they’re gay! Aren’t they, am I making that up? Not just garden variety gay .. but Mark Foley texting little boys gay, Ted Haggard having sex with prostitutes on Meth gay, Larry Craig bathroom gay. I mean I haven’t seen this many self-loathing homosexuals since I left the Catholic church.

• 63. Ricorun  |  February 9th, 2008 at 6:58 pm

  Kahn (addressing Casper): And now you pull numbers out of your ass (or a liberal blogs ass).

  Is neocon’s ass a liberal blog? Because as I read it, that’s where Casper is getting his numbers. And his comment about polls in the Military Times being dismissed by Mark in the past is accurate. I’m afraid that unless you’re willing to suspend objectivity in favor of ideology, you can’t have it both ways.

  Anyway, assuming you actually do “stop, read, and think” (and I believe you do), I think you might agree that while things are improving in Iraq, there remains a very long way to go. We’re basically digging the nation out of a deep hole. Whether that hole was largely self-inflicted, largely inevitable, or somewhere in-between is open to question I suppose. But the fact remains, Iraq has a ways to go before it could be considered a stable country. You might even acknowledge the possibility that the best way forward remains very much in doubt. After all, after months and months of effort to resolve them, there remains a big disconnect between improvements on the neighborhood level and on the national level. I can’t see how anyone cannot be concerned about that.

• 64. Casper  |  February 9th, 2008 at 7:05 pm

  neocon,
  For someone who hates to be misquoted, you sure don’t mind doing it to others.

  “Most Iraqis? 2 million out of a country of 27 million constitutes most Iraqis? Hmmm.”

  When did I say most Iraqis?

  “Then they just had to live with the violence and people like Casper were OK with that.”

  When did I ever say I was OK with the violence?

  If you are going to attack my positions, attack me for what i said, not what you wanted me to say.

• 65. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

  Casper,

  Ricorun said “most Iraqi’s” and by you not supporting the overthrow of Saddam is in fact supporting the conitnued oppression and violence that many Iraqis suffered. Sorry, but it’s just true.

  Rico,

  It will take Iraq a long time to get everything straightened out, but you’ll be amazed at the progress they’ll mae in the next year or two now that they are gaining the confidence needed to protect their country. It will be fun to watch a young liberated, self governed ME country, which use to be a bastion of oppression, join the ranks of other moderate peaceful Muslim countries. And they will thank America for it, and I am sure at that time the Democrats will join in on the adulation.

  They never miss a political expedient opportunity.

• 66. Casper  |  February 9th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

  Kahn,
  I am trying to be honest. I was against the war with Iraq from the beginning. I never saw them as the threat you and many others did. However, once the war started I shut the F##k up and supported the troops, including my daughters. I sent them letters, kept their dogs, called them, and sent them and their friends packages. I didn’t say anything negative about the war to anyone for over a year and a half. As I saw how things were being mishandled, I started speaking out against the war again.

  The war contributed to both of my daughters divorces. My oldest daughter’s current boyfriend has been diagnosed with PTSS and has to take medication to sleep. She is bring evaluated by the V.A. for PTSS and some physical problems. So if I am coming off as a little bitter I’m sorry.

  One last point. As a teacher, I have never said anything negative about any of our presidents or any other public official in the classroom.

• 67. plainjane  |  February 9th, 2008 at 7:52 pm

  …Previously the game plan by liberals was cut and run 30. SEW | February 9th, 2008 at 11:59 am

  We kept telling you this phrase had no basis in fact and was simply an NRC and Neocon campaign slogan, but you wouldn’t listen. But unlike McCain we don’t want a 100 year war. We want our troops home with their families as soon as possible.

• 68. Casper  |  February 9th, 2008 at 7:59 pm

  neocon,
  Since you are not supporting the overthrow of Islam Karimovyou, you are in fact supporting the continued oppression and violence that many Uzbekistanians. Sorry, but it’s true.

• 69. searp  |  February 9th, 2008 at 8:01 pm

  Casper, I am sorry to hear about the impact of the war on your family. PTSD is terrible, and very under-diagnosed. Difficult to treat, there are some new if controversial methods - google EMDR, it is an interesting theory. Clinical evidence is mixed, but it seems to have faster results.

• 70. searp  |  February 9th, 2008 at 8:05 pm

  “It will be fun to watch a young liberated, self governed ME country, which use to be a bastion of oppression, join the ranks of other moderate peaceful Muslim countries.”

  ROFLMAO

  Prose like that is priceless. Put your boots on catch the flight to Najaf and go watch up close and personal, please.

• 71. Casper  |  February 9th, 2008 at 8:20 pm

  searp,
  Thanks for the information. The EMDR does sound interesting.

  Kahn,
  I know in the past, we have discussed how the troops in Iraq haven’t received the medals they deserve. It might interest you to know that my oldest daughter’s boyfriend (and probable future husband) has earned two Bronze Stars. One in Bosnia and one in Iraq. Both she and I are very proud.

• 72. Barak  |  February 9th, 2008 at 9:46 pm

  phil | February 9th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
  Barak,

  Better keep up that good relationship with your buddy God, cause we’ll sure as hell need his help to repair the damage after Bush and the Republicans have tried to destroy the country these last 7 years.

  And one other thing, anybody who would dream to compare George Bush and George Washington is an idiot. I hope for your sake that this is not what you were doing.

  On second thought, I just realized that you used the term “pure victory” with regard to Iraq. You are indeed an idiot.

  But have a nice weekend anyway

  hooooo….hummmmmm, I guess if I was 18 again, I’d say I wish (this marine) could reach through the computer screen and wring your scrawny little 15 yr. old neck. But, since I have children of my own, well on their way to teens, I will just have to say, Whatever! That’s what I say to my kids when they are being annoying.

  Your post is quite telling Phil! Do you live in Berkeley by chance?

  #1You obviously don’t believe in God! If you did, you’d respect others belief in God.

  #2. If defending this country means screwing our global frickin popularity contest, then so be it, they’ll come around after some pshyco flies a plane into their buildings.

  #3. If resorting to calling me an idiot for quoting one of our founding fathers is the best you can do, you may want to remove your pimply ass from the chair your sitting in and take an english course or two.

  Don’t get me wrong Phil, I don’t dislike you. I deal with kids like you all the time. I feel for you bud. Everything comes full circle though bro. Another 10-15 years and you might be sitting on your less pimply but much fatter ass having this same conversation with some mind numb teen.

  By the way, the point is, George Washington said don’t do it for the people, do because you believe it’s right.

  If it wasn’t for your BDS, you might believe as I believe, that Bush did it, because he believed it was the right thing to do.

• 73. Barak  |  February 9th, 2008 at 9:56 pm

  Casper, I appreciate your perspective though I have NEVER agreed with it and I’m not about to start.

  I truly am sorry for the trials that this war has brought your family.

  Unfortunately, you and I could have pissing contests about my brothers divorce and bought with PTSD. Or about how every man in my geneology down to the Mayflower has served this country in the military and just about every war. I’m sure your family has served this country well.

  What matters is that we have different opinions and live in a country where Phil and Code Pink can practically urinate on our soldiers graves and get away with it.

  I’m sure you love the fact that Obama stuck to his Anti-war principles from the start unlike Mrs. Clinton. As you appreciate a principled stance for your opinions, I likewise appreciate a principled stance from my current CIC.

• 74. Middle East » Blog &hellip  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

  [...] Hedwig wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptLatest from Rasmussen: A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 59% of Americans would like to see US troops brought home from Iraq within a year. That’s up slightly from a week ago, but down four points from two weeks … [...]

• 75. neocon  |  February 9th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

  Casper,

  You’re right. Indirectly I, and we are supporting the chaos around the globe by being complacent. I would truly like to see the vast majority of decent people all around this planet confront evil head on. Sadly, that wont happen. I still cringe when I think of Darfur. It’s an absolute shame that so many people on this planet are willing to overlook it.

  It’s also a shame that people like searp are allowed to breathe. People like him and LiberalMind, etc, are actively denigrating people who are engaged in confronting evil, therefore even more complicit.

• 76. Kahn  |  February 9th, 2008 at 11:03 pm

  No liberals, I don’t agree with you. I know you’ve hated Bush since before he was elected. You’ve disagreed with every single thing he’s done. You’ve been against Iraq since before day one. How can I possibly see anything you say as objective.

  I’ve seen “liberal” (whatever the hell that means) people and site make up and twist numbers. Say they’re for the troops while at the same time demonizing them and trying to cut off their funds. I’m sick of it. I’m now committed to defeating you any way necessary. The only way for you to stop me now is by violence. Get it?

  This is the attitude WE face overseas. We need an Army and Marine Corps to deal with it. YOU don’t like the military (they don’t like you either). So? Tough for you.

  You are clearly wrong. You are clearly not going to change your minds. You are clearly dangerous to the nation. Clearly you must be stopped and kept from power.

  Your own words here have hardened me to this fact. Berkeley is a call to arms. Semper Fidelis.

  Your attitudes about the the troops and the war are wrong. I have been sitting this out. Bu no more. My new cry? Remember Berkeley! I will now work for McCain. I will give money to Republicans. I’ll post signs and give away stickers and make the arguments to anyone who will listen.

  Now, quibble with my post, like it matters.

• 77. searp  |  February 10th, 2008 at 6:57 am

  …blah, blah, blah perhaps they’ve forgotten that I haven’t verified myself and they’ll let this comment through…

• 78. SEW  |  February 10th, 2008 at 8:17 am

  plainjane #66
  “We kept telling you this phrase had no basis in fact and was simply an NRC and Neocon campaign slogan, but you wouldn’t listen. But unlike McCain we don’t want a 100 year war. We want our troops home with their families as soon as possible.”

  Yea, right. And the Berkeley City Council supports our troops too. Libs want to cut and run when times are bleak, and cut and run when winning thus giving the terrorists victory. Chickendungers.

• 79. SEW  |  February 10th, 2008 at 8:24 am

  Searp, you are more believable in your blah, blah, blah……posts.
  “Even though I actually, really confront our nation’s enemies every day?”

  On the other hand, who do you consider our nation’s enemies? AQ and OBL seem to think you libs are their friends, and I agree with them.

• 80. neocon  |  February 10th, 2008 at 8:29 am

  SEW,

  searp is speaking of confronting Christians. They are who he considers Americas enemies.

  And people with his brain damage should not be allowed to serve.

• 81. coulterfan  |  February 10th, 2008 at 8:55 am

  WOW, you’re dishonest, Mark! 59% of Americans want all troops out of Iraq within a year, 25% want troops home immediately. That means that 59% agree with the DEMOCRATS and 25% want an even faster withdrawal than either Clinton or Obama. Here’s what Obama’s position is on Iraq:

  “Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.”

  So, this is a little slower than most Americans want. . . Still, almost NOBODY agrees with McCain and the Republicans that we should be there for 100 years with permanent bases!

  We’ll see how McCain (or Huckabee LOL) does against Obama in the fall!!!

• 82. plainjane  |  February 10th, 2008 at 9:06 am

  I’m now committed to defeating you any way necessary. The only way for you to stop me now is by violence. 75. Kahn | February 9th, 2008 at 11:03 pm

  It must be frustrating for you. After total power of all branches of government for six years and kissing the neocons asses, all you have to show for your effort is a nation and party practically in ruins. 1/20/09

  Trust me come November justice will win out in America without lifting one hand against you. And if it comes to be you disagree with President Obama or Clinton by all means write them a nasty blog.

• 83. Kahn  |  February 10th, 2008 at 9:37 am

  Thanks Jane. We’ll see. November is a long ways away. Your party wants to r5etreat in a war we’re winning, tax like crazy and implement wealth and income redistribution, and divide the nation on gender and racial lines.

• 84. bagni  |  February 10th, 2008 at 11:08 am

  markeditor
  did you censor my post from yesterday?
  i thought it was a good one?

  or what?
  i’m confused again
  maybe that’s it
  you don’t take posts from confused extraterrestial visitors?

• 85. SEW  |  February 10th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

  “Trust me come November justice will win out in America without lifting one hand against you.”

  And then an empty cab pulled up to the curb. Barack Hussein Obama got out.

• 86. keefer  |  February 10th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

  And one other thing, anybody who would dream to compare George Bush and George Washington is an idiot.

  Anybody who would dream to compare you with an intellectual is an even bigger idiot.

  I see plainjane the cow is once again throwing around a term she can’t define–neocon. It leads one to conclude that the cow is an anti-Semite.

  Why do you hate Jews, cow?

• 87. searp  |  February 11th, 2008 at 8:03 am

  I love the fact that I am supposed to verify myself. What do you want, fingerprints? Social Security number? One page bio?

  Has anyone else been asked to verify their credentials to comment on this blog?

  Censorship, pure and simple. Typical of the ideological blinders worn with pride by CPAC attendees.

• 88. searp  |  February 11th, 2008 at 8:17 pm

  #

  ” Searp, you are more believable in your blah, blah, blah……posts.
  “Even though I actually, really confront our nation’s enemies every day?”

  On the other hand, who do you consider our nation’s enemies? AQ and OBL seem to think you libs are their friends, and I agree with them.
  #

  79. neocon | February 10th, 2008 at 8:29 am

  SEW,

  searp is speaking of confronting Christians. They are who he considers Americas enemies.

  And people with his brain damage should not be allowed to serve.”

  I not only am allowed to serve, I volunteered. Makes your heads explode, doesn’t it?

  Meanwhile, tell me when the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marine Corps asks you your opinion on who is allowed to serve. You see, when the nation is in trouble, almost everyone is welcome to pitch in, which you seem to do by sitting in Barcaloungers and deciding who will fight your wars for you. Wimps.

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