Carefully Reasoned Debate, Democrat Style
February 18th, 2008 at 12:11am Mark Noonan
For once, I’m on Bill Clinton’s side in an argument - From MSNBC:
CANTON, OH — Robert Holeman came to Timken High School here today with a message to deliver to Bill Clinton. He did — and he said the former president wasn’t happy about it.
Clinton spoke to a capacity crowd in this Northeast Ohio town, the third of five events today in the Buckeye State. He told voters that the contest was “the power of speeches against the promise of solutions by a world-class change maker.”
Throughout the event, as Clinton made his case for his wife, Holeman’s dissenting voice could be heard. At times he simply shouted Obama’s name. When Clinton would set up a sure applause line, Holeman could be heard heckling. As soon as Clinton finished speaking, the Canton native made a beeline to the ropeline to give Clinton a piece of his mind.
“I asked the president to please stop the bickering between the campaigns,” Holeman said in an interview afterwards. “All this name calling is like the bully in the yard. He can’t get his way, he can’t get nothing done.” Holeman said he thought Clinton was “gasping for air.”
“This is the last hurrah. After March 4, Hillary Clinton will be out of the race for good, and Obama will take the commanding lead,” he said. “She should back him with her delegates immediately. That’s what I’m asking them to do.”
Holeman said that Clinton responded by saying Obama came after him first. Holeman also described Clinton’s reaction to him as “irate.”
“I think he even hit me in the face with his hand,” he said. “He did give me a little pop. It was okay, because I understand his tenacity for his wife.” Clinton did engage Holeman for a few minutes, at times pointing directly at him. It was unclear whether he did make physical contact, however.
Holeman said he did support Bill Clinton during his campaigns, but that now the country wants a “new perspective.” “I think the president’s trying hoodwink us, bamboozle us, put us back in the okie doke,” he said. “He had eight years to do what he was supposed to do. All the things he said that she’s gonna do, he had the same authority that he wants her to have. Now if one Clinton, the male Clinton can’t get it done, how is Ms. Clinton [going to].”
Several Clinton supporters who saw the exchange came up to Holeman after to — shall we say delicately — express their disapproval for his actions. More negativity, Holeman said. “Hillary Clinton has started the most negative campaign I have ever seen, other than what the Republicans can launch,” he said. “I think we need to come together on those issues.”
There is a level of obtuseness in this not frequently reached by members of the human species.
Holeman wants the bickering to stop - so, he goes to a Clinton rally and bickers with the speaker.
Holeman is convinced that Obama will all but wrap it up on March 4th - even though, mathematically, there’s no way for Obama to do that.
Holeman says he “thinks” President Clinton might have struck his face - I don’t know about you, but when someone strikes me in the face, I’m pretty sure if it happened or not.
Holeman supported Clinton in the past - but is now worried that Clinton might be trying to bamboozle him.
Holeman’s logic - if male Clinton couldn’t do it, then female Clinton can’t do it.
Holeman says that only GOPers can be worse than Hillary Clinton.
Holeman says that Obama and this nearly-GOP-level-nasty Hillary should come together.
Where have we seen this level of discourse from Democrats? Every dratted day, right here on Blogs for Victory. Trust me, boys and girls, I now entirely sympathise with Bill Clinton and wish him the best - and he has my prayers that he’ll be able to remain patient with such people.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats
20 Comments
1. Diana Powe | February 18th, 2008 at 12:50 am
Mark,
This is exceptionally childish. Really. Good show. Jolly good.
2. Kahn | February 18th, 2008 at 12:53 am
Diana,
Childish is right. Ummm, which Democrat were you referring to?
3. Diana Powe | February 18th, 2008 at 1:01 am
Kahn,
Thank you for being Exhibit A.
4. Mark Noonan | February 18th, 2008 at 1:17 am
Diana,
A Democrat pulls all that, and you call me childish?
Geesh!
5. Kahn | February 18th, 2008 at 1:20 am
Yep, and good come back on my post.
Nyaa Nyaaa Nyaaa. (translation for Democrats)
6. GOP4ME | February 18th, 2008 at 1:21 am
God Demoncrats suck…
7. Gozer the Carpathian | February 18th, 2008 at 2:15 am
*Chuckles*
Morons on every side and most of them are the volcal ones. Don’t ya just love it?
8. plainjane | February 18th, 2008 at 7:52 am
Day to day politics in America, move on nothing here.
Republicans reduce such encounters by setting up “Free Speech Zones” at a distance no one can hear their protest. LOL
9. William Teach | February 18th, 2008 at 8:29 am
Reminds me of the way the Paulnuts acted.
10. Almiranta | February 18th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Clearly, Diana the Red and the plainest of janes are supposed to respond to every new thread, even when they can’t possibly have anything to say. I wonder it if is in their job description or something.
So we get psuedo-responses such as #1, and #3, and the totally nonsensical random collection of words in janie’s post. She is quite a hoot, our janie, always willing to string together a bunch of words and pretend that they constitute a cogent statement.
The point of the original thread post is clear—to those who can read and process information, that is.
As I was reading it, I was trying to figure out what could possibly make this Holeman a sympathtetic character, but then I am against the Left tactic of merely harassing, shouting down, and interrupting those with whom they do not agree. It didn’t matter who he supported, or why, it was the tactic that bothered me, and of course the narcissitic assumption that because it was HIS feelings, he had every right to indulge them in any way he chose.
I, too, saw it as a childish, petty, and annoying example of what has come, unfortunately, to be a symbol of protest on the far Left—and its obtuseness in refusing to acknowledge how infantile and counterproductive it is.
11. plainjane | February 18th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
but then I am against the Left tactic of merely harassing, shouting down, and interrupting those with whom they do not agree.10. Almiranta | February 18th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
I don’t usually give you acknowledgement by answering any one of your long winded rants, but the above statement was good. Would you like the video of the heart sole of the Republican party boooooooooooooooooooing McCain at the recent CPAC meeting? I am sure Mark can get it for you.
12. Some Assembly Required | February 18th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
“but then I am against the Left tactic of merely harassing, shouting down, and interrupting those with whom they do not agree.” - Alm
Flip-Flop?!?!?!?!
13. SEW | February 18th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Holeman does sound like the posters here. In fact, he might be. Hopefully the Clinton folks will vote McCain. Only several percent would work, but likely much higher than that. On the other hand, it is rather funny to see the automatic 12% of the population black vote immediately switch horses and cast their vote simply on the color of ones skin. Clinton’s have benefitted from that auto 12% vote forever.
14. Diana Powe | February 18th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
I read Almiranta’s post and it made me think of the Brooks Brothers Riot of 2000.
15. sleepygene | February 18th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Mark-
Is this the level of discourse youare hoping for?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLQGWpRVA7o
I agree, we need more name calling and hair pulling.
16. FmrMarine | February 18th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
I think klinton is beginning to show the late stages of syphilis, he is totally insane.
He is beyond reckless, he has hidden his medical record for years. This is possibly the reason for the oral sex rather than conventional.
I say keep it up ol bl@# job, i love the u tube entertainment factor.
17. FRobby | February 18th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
FmrMarine,
You’re quite an angry little fellow, aren’t you?
You do know that Clinton is not spelled with a “k”, don’t you?
18. Xango Annie | February 18th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
#17 you can’t be serious…that infamous name is spelled a lot of ways..certainly ,if you are out in the blogosphere you would have seen that…..
19. Kahn | February 19th, 2008 at 1:32 am
The Obama guy was over the top and a jerk. Clinton should not let himself be baited this way. He should know that in the age of YouTube, you can’t get away wit angry rants even if justified. Thats what statesmanship and diplomacy and discretion are all about.
The conflict makes both paries look bad. It even makes Obama look bad even though he wasn’t involved.
More important is the growing consensus in the middle that Clinton would be a Democrat Nixon and Obama doesn’t know what he’s talking about but he says it well.
Several very liberal friends of mine (one once stormed out of a Las Vegas restaurant on me leaving me to pay and find a ride home) have told me they will vote for McCain for exactly those reasons. I’m talking about a Berkeley liberal now living in Arizona and a Massachusetts liberal. Both are died in the wool. Both say they’re probably voting for McCain. I never would have believed it. But he may be our best hope.
20. Kahn | February 19th, 2008 at 1:34 am
dyed in the wool - spellchecks don’t correct the wrong word if it’s spelled correctly!