Quoting Michelle Obama
February 23rd, 2008 at 11:21am Mark Noonan
Ah, nothing like the thesis of a liberal (PDF) for intersting items:
…My experiences at Princeton have made me far more aware of my “Blackness” than ever before. I have found that at Princeton no matter how liberal and open minded some of my White professors and classmates try to be toward me, I sometimes feel like a visitor on campus; as if I really don’t belong…
Stokely Carmichael and Charlie Hamilton’s (1967) developed definitions of separationism in their discussion of Black Power which guided me in the forumlation and use this concept in this study:
The concept of Black Power rests of this fundamental premise: Before a group can enter the open society, it must close ranks. By this we mean that group solidarity is necessary before a group can operate effectively from a bargaining position of strength in a pluralistic society.
Thus, Carmichael and Hamilton define separationism as a necessary stage for the development of the Black community before this group integrates into the “open society”.
All really good liberal mental gobblydegook - the sort of “thinking” which you get when you are just repeating back what a leftist told you. Trouble is, this lady might be the person who gets first and last crack at advising the President of the United States every day. I guess Michelle Obama doesn’t have as much pull in 2008 as Hillary had in 1992 in getting her thesis locked away. I wonder, however, what we might find in any thesis written by Barack? Would there be, for instance, anything like Michelle’s assertion that black (errr…I mean Black) politicians are to pretend to be working with Whites when they are actually advancing the Black community?
…They discuss the problems which face these Black officials who must persuade the White community that they are above issues of race and that they are representing all people and not just Black people…
Its going to be a very fun and interesting fall campaign…
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats, Kook Left
59 Comments
1. liberalT | February 23rd, 2008 at 11:30 am
could you possibly be any more ridiculous Mark
here is the quote
–
The concept of Black Power rests of this fundamental premise: Before a group can enter the open society, it must close ranks. By this we mean that group solidarity is necessary before a group can operate effectively from a bargaining position of strength in a pluralistic society.
–
the key bit is when she states that GROUP SOLIDARITY IS NECESSARY BEFORE A GROUP CAN OPERATE EFFECTIVELY
that is just saying that the black community has to work together not against itself..
But keep trying - your pathetic attempts are the death throws of the Bush doctrine.
2. Mark Noonan | February 23rd, 2008 at 11:34 am
liberalT,
It is a racist statement. Period. End of story.
3. js | February 23rd, 2008 at 11:45 am
“The concept of Black Power rests of this fundamental premise”
Really? It should read like this;
The concept that Black Power exists rests solely upon the conclusion tha White Power, Red Power and Brown Power exists as well.
The only fundamental premise that we should observe is the each power is equal in both class and stature, and none come before or behind any other, but can only survive as equals.
4. liberalT | February 23rd, 2008 at 11:58 am
explain to me how it is racist? I seriously don’t understand
5. Diane Tomlinson | February 23rd, 2008 at 11:59 am
How Noonan is that statement racist? I don’t get it? DuBois said as much of the same a doctrine of understanding what it means to be black is necessary before any integration could begin into a society that is ill prepared to accept the black woman and the black man as anything but equals or betters in any given situation. What we are touching is the water’s edge of the greatest problem facing America today and that is racism. It is the poisoned well from which all other sufferings come.
But to all conservatives a united front against their ideas is always a scary proposition isn’t it?
What will it be next Noonan if Obama is the Democratic nominee, will you passing out pickaninny dolls at the GOP convention with Michelle Obama’s face on it? How far will the GOP go toward the racist reactionary fringe of its party to smear the other side? How long will it take for them to show their true colors?
6. brett michaels | February 23rd, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Mark,
While I do not see what the issue is with her thesis..it is interesting you are trying to pass judgment on someone based on something they wrote 22yrs ago.
Would it be correct to judge you based on your actions and how you carried yourself say 10 yrs ago?
Are you the same man today as you were 10 yrs ago?
I’m not trying to be harsh, but you havent exactly led a stellar life. I’m pretty certain you would not appreciate being judged on what you did 10 yrs ago…yet you are quick to pass judgment based on a 22yr old thesis.
You are an interesting dichotomy.
7. FmrMarine | February 23rd, 2008 at 12:35 pm
BM
>>>>>”you are trying to pass judgment on someone based on something they wrote 22yrs ago.”<<<<<
That was then….THIS is NOW, not much has changed.
Trinity United Church of Christ
About Us
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian… Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain “true to our native land,” the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.
Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:
1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Black Community
3. Commitment to the Black Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.
8. Mark Noonan | February 23rd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Brett,
I, however, renounce and reject my errors of 22 years ago - my slavish devotion to error back then is anethema to me. Michelle is going to have to reject what she wrote, or explain to us why a racist should be allowed into the White House.
9. brett michaels | February 23rd, 2008 at 12:50 pm
How do you know what she has and has not rejected?
10. brett michaels | February 23rd, 2008 at 1:03 pm
FrmMarine
If a church is encouraging Black people to focus on:
1) God
2) Community
3) Family
4) Education
5) Excellence
6) Work ethic
7) Self-Discipline & Self-respect
etc…
Why are you so against that?
You have consistently mentioned my race over and over again (event though I mentioned I was black in only one thread)
Im suspect you have an issue with black people being proud of their race and wanting to do everything they can to get them out of welfare and out of a state of dependency.
Why do you have such an issue with that? You cant stand an uppity & proud nigger can ya?
It is just like I wrote in an email to Mark Noonan. No matter what accomplishments I ever make in life, people like you will always look at me as an uppity nigger. You will never look at the fact I have an education, that I am Marine, and that I have a wonderful family.
God forbid I happen to also be proud that I am black and that I want to help my race.
Im glad you are a former and not a current marine. There must be a reason for that.
11. Christian Wright | February 23rd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
“Before a group can enter the open society, it must close ranks.”
When the Irish first came to America, especially when the came in the 1840’s, they were rejected by American society. In fact, a Black man in the North would be hired before an Irishman. What the Irish did was close ranks and become politically active. They voted for each other in office. Before you knew it, nearly every cop, firefighter and local politician was of Irish descent, especially in places like Boston and Chicago.
I think the Pole and Italians did the same thing.
12. FmrMarine | February 23rd, 2008 at 1:37 pm
BM
Actually i said NOTHING to or about YOU I commented on michelle obama.
YOUR
First LIE =
“You have consistently mentioned my race over and over again”.
Second LIE =
“Why do you have such an issue with that? You cant stand an uppity & proud nigger can ya?”
Third LIE =
“If a church is encouraging Black people to focus on:”
2. Commitment to the Black Community
3. Commitment to the Black Family
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.
Substitute David Duke and the word black with WHITE and have him be the leading candidate and see what your “community would be saying about that.
An uppity “nigger” ? well YOU said it, if the label fits WEAR IT.
13. phnx | February 23rd, 2008 at 2:14 pm
To understand the racist element in the premise of black power, just contrast it against Martin Luther’s Dream, that men (and women) would be judged by the content of the character not the color of their skin.
Seems to me that the premise argues the exact opposite position, that men (and women) be judged by their blackness first…respect me because I am black. This is the mentality of a street thug.
14. Tractatus | February 23rd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
How, Noonan, is that statement racist?
Because he needs it to be racist in order for his attack on Barack Obama’s wife to function. (He’s attacking Obama’s wife, by the way, because so far, his attacks on Obama himself have been failures.) Remember: To Noonan, whatever he believes is absolute truth. So if he believes that the statement is racist, then it’s racist, even if it isn’t.
15. Mark Noonan | February 23rd, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Brett,
It is up to her to so advise us - she can’t leave us guessing.
16. Mark Noonan | February 23rd, 2008 at 5:12 pm
phnx,
But they don’t want any part of King’s dream - to the left, King is just window-dressing on a desire to have everyone judged by their skin color, their gender, their sexual activities…they are mindless on such things and don’t even understand the monstrousness of their beliefs.
17. Kahn | February 23rd, 2008 at 5:31 pm
She would have done better to go to a school that believed in Republican ideals of self determination and responsibility. Instead, she went to schools that see blacks (at best) in a paternalistic “they need to be cared for” manner. The discrimination of low expectations. Of course at worst, “liberalism” sees blacks as a group of unselfsustaining chumps whose votes can be bought with addictive government largess.
18. steveGA | February 23rd, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Again with the attacks on a candidate’s wife. It can’t be long before you go after his children and/or his pets. (”Barack’s dog licks his own butt! We can’t have that in the White House!”)
Put aside the fact that these kind of attacks make the attacker (you) look desperate and hysterical and actually gain sympathy for the attacked.
I just want to ask you again, why do you demand that Michelle Obama explain what she meant in her 20+ year old thesis? If she rejected it, would you vote for her? No. Would you even have the decency to acknowledge that she addressed it? No, you would say that her denial was not strong enough, a lie, and/ or evidence of flip-flopping. Time and time again, you’ve shown that you hate anyone with a ‘D’ after their name, why would they bother courting you?
In short, the overwhelming majority of the thinking, reasonable world doesn’t care what a candidate’s wife wrote in a 22 year old thesis. Why should the candidate or his wife bother to address the few crazies like you who do care?
19. Fred | February 23rd, 2008 at 5:48 pm
My fellow Republicans in Texas should do McCain a favor march 4th…Vote for hillary in the primary. Make our friends job easier.
20. Mark Noonan | February 23rd, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Fred,
Not so sure about that - I’ve just started on Michelle’s thesis as has the rest of the conservative blogosphere…and with Obama making boneheaded statements on foreign policy, it might turn out that Obama is just as beatable as Hillary…though, come what may, it is in our interest to keep the Democratic nomination up in the air for as long as possible.
21. Mark Noonan | February 23rd, 2008 at 5:57 pm
steveGA,
Because if she doesn’t address the issue, it will start to work like acid on her husband’s campaign. Issues like these can’t be left hanging, as John Kerry discovered in 2004. She faces it squarely, now, or Obama will face it indirectly in October and November.
This isn’t about securing my support - this is about allaying the continuing doubts amongst swing voters who will actually decide the election. Obama says he wants to be President of all Americans…fine; but it seems that Mrs. Obama views a black politician as someone who’s supposed to PRETEND to work with white politicians, but who is actually engaged only in advancing the cause of the black community.
22. Ricorun | February 23rd, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Mark: I’ve just started on Michelle’s thesis as has the rest of the conservative blogosphere…
Was that intended to be some kind of admission that you’re getting instructions from some kind of central command?
23. Casper | February 23rd, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Mark,
If you think a 22 year old thesis, written by a candidate’s wife, is going to turn the election around, I have some land in Antarctica to sell you. Outside of the conservative blogosphere, I doubt that anyone really cares. Frankly, this is just silly.
24. Mark Noonan | February 23rd, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Casper,
Not in and of itself - and you’ve been around me long enough to know that I didn’t mean that at all. But these things are like acid - and their effect is culmulative. By itself - no problem. Added to the other questions about Obama - deadly.
25. Mark Noonan | February 23rd, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Ricorun,
No - just that it will be read by a large number of people and it will be very well-dissected over the next week or two…and if the first few pages are an indicator, the thesis will be a mother lode of foolish, lefty statements for us to take issue with.
26. Casper | February 23rd, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Mark,
The problem with attacks like this is that they look petty. It has very little to do with Obama or his policies and all to do with trying to bring him down any way possible.
I felt the same way in 2000 when people on the other side were trying to link Bush’s grandfather to the Nazis. It was silly then and it’s silly now.
27. eric | February 23rd, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Just an FYI. Mark has only posted a link to the first part of the thesis. It is broken up into four parts. For all four parts, go to:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8642.html
For the record, I think Mrs. Obama should at least acknowledge and explain her current position on the thesis. Clearly, someone thought the thesis could raise issues for Senator Obama or it would not have been buried in the first place.
28. brett michaels | February 23rd, 2008 at 7:32 pm
First LIE =
“You have consistently mentioned my race over and over again”.
FrmMarine,
You mentioned my race in 4 different threads.
Would you like me to post the links to them?
In each thread I never once mentioned my race..you were the one that brought it up.
Substitute David Duke and the word black with WHITE and have him be the leading candidate and see what your “community would be saying about that.
My community? Hmmm…My community is composed of whites, blacks, hispanics, asians and quite a large number of indians.
Actually, most black people do not have a problem with people being proud of their race. The issue is when those people say their race is superior to other races. That is what David Duke and his ilk claim.
You really don’t see the difference do you? Most bigots don’t.
29. Mark Noonan | February 23rd, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Casper,
Thing is, those accusations against Prescott Bush are a slander and even if they were true bear no relation to George W. Bush - these are Michelle Obama’s own words…true, they are old words but when juxtaposed to her recent remarks about never being so proud of America until just now, when her husband is only a little ways from a possible stay in the White House, they raise the question about her real, current opinions on racial matters in the United States.
It is a bald-faced and rather stupid lie that white people are inherently racist, or that America is a racist nation - whatever the case might have been in the past, here in 2008 we are a very multi-ethnic society where the overwhelming majority holds that a person’s skin color must not be determinative in what they are able to accomplish - Michelle Obama’s writings are of a species of though, rising out of the 60’s, which held that America is a racist nation, that white people are inherently racist, and only by presenting a united and militant front to white America could black America claim its proper place in America.
We need to know - does she believe that sort of thing? Does Barack? If they don’t, will they denounce such views in public?
30. Mark Noonan | February 23rd, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Casper,
As an aside, I dispute the characterisation of this as an attack - it is an observation and a question. An attack would be what the NY Times did to McCain.
31. phnx | February 23rd, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Mrs. Obama’s thesis will only serve to highlight the relationship that Barak holds with the controversial minister of his church. Barry is going to have to explain both down the road, its just a matter of time.
Personally I am looking forward to his putting some substance behind all the rhetoric. Once the american public realize just how far left and expensive his positions are, the bloom will be off the flower.
32. Judith | February 23rd, 2008 at 10:30 pm
If its just silly, why are you all here discussing it? You libs are all nutz and nasty.
33. Judith | February 23rd, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Ricorun, Central Command? Space Station 3 come in please? Outer Galaxy Post, please fire One! Like I said, Mark, nutz and nasty. You can’t reason, explain, compare, or find common ground with libs and if Obuma thinks he can he is really dilusional.
34. steveGA | February 23rd, 2008 at 11:09 pm
“This isn’t about securing my support - this is about allaying the continuing doubts amongst swing voters who will actually decide the election.”
What a disingenuous statement. Your ‘doubts’ could never be allayed. Consider your demand of two days ago that Obama prove his debate statement about troop and equipment shortages in Afghanistan. You asked for definitive proof, ABC News provides evidence that, yes, the troop who told Obama the story does exist and backs up everything Obama said. Your response? You cite an anonymous fact-free post on some wingnut website as proof that ABC and Obama are wrong. You literally will believe ANYTHING that supports your pre-existing views.
Each day you seem to get more and more lost in your own hypocritical fantasy world. I truly feel sorry for you, when I’m not too busy laughing at you.
35. Uncommon | February 23rd, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Brett you have to forgive people like Mark, Matt, Former Marine, Kahn, etc. Time and time again they make this claim that racism in America is of very little significance in the US. It is apparent that either 1) They probably live in a middle class or affluent white suburban neighborhood and have little interaction with Blacks or 2) Are just horribly ignorant. I am white but have lived most of my life in the very poor and very black neighborhood or East Oakland, California. As a result all of my friends then and mostly now (living in Kansas) were/are black. Any one of those friends (male and female) can name more accounts of experienced racism than they have fingers to count. Being the one of the only white kids in several square miles I also to experienced some racism. Here in Kansas I see acts of racism almost weekly whether it be (racial epithet deleted) scrolled on a bathroom stall or some white hick calling a group of black girls stupid (racial epithet deleted). The problem with Michelle’s thesis is that it shows that she is a strong, intelligent, and proud black woman and she believes that a strong black community is the only way that blacks can progress. That type of black community existed prior to the 1960s but US education and social services policies utterly destroyed that. This country may have progressed to the point where it may accept a black president but it is in no way shape or form ready for a proud black president and that is what this post shows.
Secondly, I hate to break it to Mark but MLK is not the end all spokesperson for the black race. MLK, Du Bois, Malcolm X, Marcus Garvery, etc. also speak just as loudly for the black community. Also, not once did MLK state that blacks should not be proud of their race. And for heavens sake stop using the “judged by the color of their skin” line. He was speaking directly to the exclusion and mistreatment of blacks solely on the color of their skin. He was NOT in favor of a color blind society which is what you are espousing by over using that line.
36. Kahn | February 23rd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Casper, sooooo 20 year old legal opinions shouldn’t matter when we choose a appellate court judge or a Supreme Court Justice?
I mean, so long as your setting the rules…
37. Mark Noonan | February 24th, 2008 at 1:24 am
Uncommon,
One of the most stupid comments I see on this blog is liberals claiming that I must live in a lilly-white (or nearly so) neighborhood and/or that I have little or no interaction with non-white people. My family, friends, neighbors, co-workers and fellow parishoners would be very interested to find out that I don’t interact with them.
38. Mark Noonan | February 24th, 2008 at 1:32 am
…given that the people instructing me in my faith are, respectively, two Sri Lankans, one Vietnamese-American, a Native America and a guy originally from Jamaica I’ve just got say, uncommon, that you are…well, let’s just say that there’s a string of insults I could throw at you right now…
39. get the facts straight | February 24th, 2008 at 1:55 am
So sad, you don’t even know that the Obama campaign released the thesis to politico.com. Sure casts doubt on the rest of your writing–you’re just not too bright.
40. Mark Noonan | February 24th, 2008 at 2:00 am
MarkforPres,
The statement is racist - there’s not a part of it racist or anyway to modify the statement to make it non-racist. Just switch around “black” and “white” and pretend its a KKKer’s thesis…
41. Mark Noonan | February 24th, 2008 at 2:01 am
getthe,
What does that matter? Could be that Obama figures if he gets it out now it will be old news by the fall; could be that he feels he’s impervious to questions at this point; could be that he doesn’t understand just how bad this will look…the sentiments adhered to in the thesis will have to be cleared up; as to who released it, and why; that is immaterial.
42. brett michaels | February 24th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Mark,
Have you ever been at a party or office function where everyone else was black and you were the only person that was white?
Have you ever stepped onto an elevator and have a woman move her purse so it faces away from you?
Have you ever came out of a restaurant with your friends and have people cross the street to avoid contact with you?
Or how about my favorite…have you ever driven thru Lynchburg, Va with a black recruiting officer and have two cars pass you on Route 29 with the occupants screaming “(expletive deleted) you (racial ephithet deleted)!!”
Racism is alive and well in this country.
If you genuinely do not believe that, then I suggest you ask any couple where the husband is black and the wife is white….racism is alive and well in this country….
43. brett michaels | February 24th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Just an additional thought…
Racism goes both ways…there is racism from minorities directed at whites. I see it all the time.
Even I face racism from within my own race, …hatred from black females because my wife is white and because successful young black men are not common…envy from black males because my wife is white..
44. Mark Noonan | February 24th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
brett,
“Have you ever been at a party or office function where everyone else was black and you were the only person that was white?”
Yes. Well, strictly speaking, one of the other guests was of Japanese ethnicity - though one of the black guests was gay and hit on me, so that’s gotta count for something.
“Have you ever stepped onto an elevator and have a woman move her purse so it faces away from you?”
Unknown - I’m usually not paying that close attention to people on the elevator with me.
“Have you ever came out of a restaurant with your friends and have people cross the street to avoid contact with you?”
Unknown - when I’m with my friends, I’m concentrating my attentions on them, not people crossing the street.
“Or how about my favorite…have you ever driven thru Lynchburg, Va with a black recruiting officer and have two cars pass you on Route 29 with the occupants screaming ‘(expletive deleted) you (racial ephithet deleted)!!’”
No, but I was walking thru Denver, CO and for some unknown reason some guys in a truck decided to throw a beer bottle at me.
As for inter-racial familes - I’m almost in one of them (putative daughter-in-law); two close friends are parents of a white daughter married to a black man; former white female boss of mine was married to a black man until recently (wasn’t racism caused the breakup - he decided to play the field a little bit); another former white female boss is married to a hispanic man; black female friend of mine has a son married to a white woman…
There are, of course, racists in America - but America isn’t racist, white people aren’t inherently racist, and racism does not and cannot keep a black man down.
45. What? | February 24th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Damn, I tried to ween myself off this blog but Mark has dragged me back in with his wackiness.
Mark,
You missed the point of Michael’s last post. He is constantly aware of his race because society at large compels him to do so. No white person can understand or have this feeling because we have held power in this country since we arrived on its shores.
This sense of outsiderness, some would argue, is in a black person’s head. This is true but only because real present day prejudice and inequality has placed it there (not to mention two centuries of slavery and one century of government enforced segregation.)
Michael’s examples are the personal ones that cannot be measured. But statistics illustrate the prejudice and inequality at large. Blacks, statistically, are poorer than whites. Blacks are more likely to be stopped by cops. Blacks are less likely to attain a college education. Children of black middle class parents are less likely to stay in the middle class than white children. Blacks are less likely to own their own business. I could go on, but you get the picture.
White people know these statistics. Black people know these statistics. To say they don’t affect a black person’s sense of himself and his place in society or a white person’s interactions with blacks is naive.
A possible answer to this outsiderness, inequality, and prejudice is what Michelle Obama described in her thesis as black power. Unifying the black community allows blacks to become a political force and also helps alleviate the prejudice against them by creating a shared sense of pride. Thus, the goal of Black Power is to contribute to ending the prejudice and inequality blacks expereince.
White Pride is a not the same because whites don’t face the same prejudice and inequality as minorities. The goal of White Pride, at least those who practice it in this country, is to see that the prejudice and inequality continues. White Pride followers seek to keep whites on top. Black Power, as Michelle Obama defines it, seeks to fulfill MLK’s dream of a society of equals.
For a more eloquent version of what I am saying read Native Son.
46. Almiranta | February 24th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Much of what passes for racism is merely a way of identifying someone. Not to say there is no racism, because there certainly is, but I think a lot of unnecessary attention is paid to comments that are not indicative of a a negative reaction to a person BECAUSE of her or her race, gender, or whatever.
Example: If I tell someone that some redheaded bitch cut me off in traffic, that does not mean that I am prejudiced either against women or redheads. Both terms are identifiers, and although one has a negative connotation, it’s not proof that I hate women.
So one can become irritated at someone at work, for example, and say “that black SOB took my parking space” and it is no more meaningful than saying “that Canadian SOB” or “that bossy SOB”.
We all experience unfair prejudice directed at us in some way or ahother, over and over again. I was once told by my new boss that I was the “token c__t” in the company.
Some women react to things like this by becoming radical feminists, developing extreme dislike for and distrust of men, and so on. Some, like me, consider the source and don’t let it define me or limit me or dictate to me how I should act. Just as I am an individual woman, he was an individual man, and therefore neither of us could be defined or identified by some amorphous collective identity. So he, as an individual, was a jerk.
The primary difference is one of basic viewpoints of the world. Conservatives see the world through the prism of individualism, while liberals tend to view it in terms of groups.
Interestingly enough, it seems that the minorities who have really succeeded in this country have done so from the position of individuality—not as part of some great mass of people but as individuals with certain skills and ambitions. And these people also tend to be the ones who say “Don’t include ME in your “black community” or your “Latino community”—I am a person who happens to be black or Latino, but am defined by who I am and what I have accomplished and not by my skin color”.
Michelle seems to be echoing the Liberal viewpoint, which is that everyone must be part of some collective. She has chosen to be part of a “black community” celebrating her blackness, etc etc etc. which is totally consistent with the Left’s view of the world—it’s groups and not people.
LiberalT says “GROUP SOLIDARITY IS NECESSARY BEFORE A GROUP CAN OPERATE EFFECTIVELY”—but fails to show why it is necessary, or desirable, to operate as a group at all.
47. Almiranta | February 24th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Why, and how, is the Black Value System different from other value systems?
Is it better?
Why?
Why, and how, is the Black Work Ethic different from other work ethics?
Is it better?
How?
What is “middleclassness” and why is it to be avoided?
How can a man truly and honestly claim to be the one to “unite” this country, when his very religion is so divisive?
I wonder, when Michelle was attending Princeton and Barack was in the Harvard Law School, if they sat down and planned a strategy to just skip right over the “middle class” on their way to wealth and fame. Hmmm. Sounds awfully elitist to me.
And I wonder how other black people feel when these two flagrantly successful black people, one constantly talking about his disadvantaged childhood, explain that success is simply not accessible to black people in this horrible country. How did THEY do it?
Are they just so inherently superior to plain old black folk that the rules didn’t apply to them?
Wouldn’t it be more honest, as well as more accurate, to have a message of REAL hope, which is to say “In this great and wonderful country, where slavery was the law barely more than a hundred years ago, black people can now aspire to the levels of success we have achieved—it is there, it is available, to all who are willing to work for it. We’re not special—we are just examples of the opportunities available to all in the United States.”
But no, his is a message of true divisiveness, and even more so is Michelle’s.
48. Almiranta | February 24th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Just have to point out this example of what evidently passes for intellectual political discourse on the far Left:
“….will you passing out pickaninny dolls at the GOP convention with Michelle Obama’s face on it?”
But this is the kind of spiteful malicious garbage that is routinely tossed out by the pompous radical Left.
Diane Tomlinson is such a great example of the Victim vs Villain mentality of the rabid Left, she should be their poster child. Get this: “..to all conservatives a united front against their ideas is always a scary proposition isn’t it?”
What a great example of Groupthink, coupled with a perfect example of projection, or assuming that EVERYONE uses it.
Wrong, Diane. Conservatives don’t see people in terms of groups, or collectives. We see people as individuals, and therein lies the major conflict between the Left and the Right. We fight for the rights, and believe in the strengths, of the individual, while the Left cannot conceive of any good coming from anything but the collective.
So you organize your groups, and identify yourselves by your “communities”, and make sweeping statements which are only marginally coherent and then only in the context of groupthink.
Oh, and continue showing us how your allegiance to the collective makes you so special and so superior that you are not bound by the simple rules of either truth or civility, as the stodgy old individuals are.
Pickaninnies!! If you are capable of shame, this would be a good place to practice it.
49. brett michaels | February 24th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Yes. Well, strictly speaking, one of the other guests was of Japanese ethnicity - though one of the black guests was gay and hit on me, so that’s gotta count for something.
I am fascinated by this…what was the setting and how large was the party?
Unknown - I’m usually not paying that close attention to people on the elevator with me.
Unknown - when I’m with my friends, I’m concentrating my attentions on them, not people crossing the street.
Ah, you obviously have never been to a less than desirable part of a town and you grew up in a much nicer neighborhood than I did.
So you really have no idea how the lesser in this country lives do you?
Its quite amazing since you profess to know so much about how people like me grew up.
:)
50. Mark Noonan | February 25th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Brett,
Oh, I don’t know - about 40 people; it was a going away party for me and another guy as we were being transferred off of our ship when I was in the Navy. As it turned out, I was the only white guy who attended due to various duty requirements.
As for the neighborhood I grew up in - very nice; very middle class. But I’ve been on the mean streets, as well - including getting a first hand look at what an armed robbery is like in Portsmouth, VA. Essentially, Brett, you have only the haziest notion of what sort of person I am and what sort of life experiences I have, and yet you are making hard and fast judgements of where I’m coming from. You might want to try a little humility as you approach others.
51. Mark Noonan | February 25th, 2008 at 12:18 am
what?
The social pathologies you relate are not the result of racism, however - they are the result of family breakdown in the black community brought on by liberal social policies which while intended to help, actually did nothing but harm. The key to helping those people will not be found in battling whatever vestigal racism exists in the United States, but in enacting policies which encourage religious faith and family formation.
52. FmrMarine | February 25th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
BM
“You mentioned my race in 4 different threads.
Would you like me to post the links to them?
In each thread I never once mentioned my race..you were the one that brought it up.”
Actually YOU mentioned it FIRST, I do not have X-ray vision.
YOU threw the N word out, in one of your first posts.
YOU posted YOUR picture here.
YOU said youi would meet Mark at the convention in Washington and “mentioned” you would be the only black there.
YOU have a SERIOUS identity problem…..GET OVER IT !
So what is YOU’RE take on BO?
(PS did you know he is black?)
53. brett michaels | February 25th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Mark Noonan | February 25th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Brett,
Oh, I don’t know - about 40 people; it was a going away party for me and another guy as we were being transferred off of our ship when I was in the Navy. As it turned out, I was the only white guy who attended due to various duty requirements.
So a shipmate admitted to being gay and hit on you??!!
Sorry Mark…IM questioning you veracity on this one.
But I’ve been on the mean streets, as well
If you have been on the mean streets liek you said…then why are you completely oblivious to your surroundings?
“I’m usually not paying that close attention to people on the elevator with me.
when I’m with my friends, I’m concentrating my attentions on them, not people crossing the street.”
I can tell you two things about you…you have never been in combat and you certainly have never once lived on the “mean streets”..you might have visited a mean street for about 5 mins..then went back to your very middle class neighborhood.
Dont take offense Mark…you also only have the haziest notion of what sort of person I am and what sort of life experiences I have, and yet you are making hard and fast judgements of where I’m coming from.
Perhaps you should take your own advice…
“You might want to try a little humility as you approach others.”
I find it odd you make that statement…when you never exercise that judgment yourself….
54. brett michaels | February 25th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
FrmMarine…
Yes I did first mention my race.
But then in 4 separate other threads you mentioned I was black. Even though nobody else had brought up that fact…just you.
I’ll give you a hint…in the 2nd thread you specifically stated “I cant stand talking to you minorities…”
Thats the great thing about blogs and the internet/email in general…words you say come back to haunt you long after you have forgotten them.
55. brett michaels | February 25th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
So what is YOU’RE take on BO?
BO? BO Jackson? BO Derek?
56. What? | February 26th, 2008 at 2:10 am
Mark writes:
The social pathologies you relate are not the result of racism, however - they are the result of family breakdown in the black community brought on by liberal social policies which while intended to help, actually did nothing but harm. The key to helping those people will not be found in battling whatever vestigal racism exists in the United States, but in enacting policies which encourage religious faith and family formation.
Do you have any proof to back this up? It is amazing how you can disregard centuries of being second-class citizens so easily.
I would ove to see you walk into a NAACP meeting and share your thoughts. We’ll see how many Blacks agree that their problem is that they have been coddled too much by the government.
Also, last time I checked, blacks aren’t exactly atheists. Visit a Bapist Church lately.
57. Mark Noonan | February 26th, 2008 at 2:22 am
Brett,
Yes, because when I was in the Navy, we didn’t care too much about the gay guys…it took gay rights activists trying to ram gays in the military down everyone’s throat for it to become an issue. Most people are very much live and let live, Brett - its takes an a**hole to cause trouble. As for that gentleman, he mistook me for gay - I made my apologies and found other things to do.
As for where I’ve lived and hung out - well, I’ve lived and hung out in the past in areas I would never live now, given that I have a wife to look after…but as single man fully capable of taking care of himself and with no familial obligations? Different story. Its not a matter of being oblivious, its a matter of just not working on the assumption that everyone’s a threat until proved otherwise…such as: the time in New York where it was only when the guy turned the third corner after me that I became concerned - defenses up, I crossed the street as a final check, and when he started to cross, I turned and confronted him, and he suddenly decided he had somewhere else to be.
I’ve had a gun put in my face; I’ve had a much, much larger man pick me up and threaten to beat me to a pulp; I’ve had gang-bangers try to shake me down; I’ve dodged a couple muggings - I’ve had, to say the least, an interesting life…but mostly I get along wherever I go because I have a knack for fitting in…this, I freely admit, is a gift - God has graced me with the ability to swiftly understand where a person is coming from and thus adjust myself to their expectations, reserving, of course, my requirements to maintain the standards I adhere to. I think its called “the common touch”.
58. Mark Noonan | February 26th, 2008 at 2:25 am
what,
Black Americans who attend church services are not the problem - they have solid families and are doing just fine…I’m talking about the black underclass…while we had, due to racism, a very large poor black class in the United States, it took liberalism to create the black underclass (and, of course, there is a white underclass, created by the same means). These are people not held back by racism, but by government-sponsored indolence and neglect. Create 10,000 more affirmative action programs and you won’t help a single one of them - they need knowledge and morals, not more laws.
59. What? | February 26th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Mark,
Are you actually claiming black ineqaulity can be traced solely to affirmative action? So do you actually believe we are all born equal in this country? That being white does not give you a head start?
As far as I can tell your entire solution is to pray more.