Obama Kneels Before the Culture of Death
February 29th, 2008 at 05:40am Mark Noonan
Seems that a liberal can’t crawl enough before it:
ROME, FEB. 27, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Senator Barack Obama’s claim that it was a “mistake” to vote in favor of an attempt to save the life of Florida woman Terri Schiavo is a statement that “dismisses life,” said her brother.
Bobby Schindler, the executive director of the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation, told ZENIT today that the senator’s comment “dismisses life in favor of death.” Schindler is in Rome to participate in the Pontifical Academy for Life’s congress titled “Close By the Incurable Sick Person and the Dying: Scientific and Ethical Aspects.”
Schindler also received an award today on behalf of his parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, from the Italian Movement For Life and Science and the association Life Rome for the couple’s efforts to fight on behalf of their daughter’s life, whose death was induced by the court-ordered removal of her feeding tube in 2005…
…During a presidential debate in Cleveland, Ohio, on Tuesday with Senator Hillary Clinton, Obama said of his vote in favor of the attempt to save Schiavo’s life: “It was not something I was comfortable with, but it was not something that I stood on the floor and stopped.
“And I think that was a mistake, and I think the American people understood that that was a mistake. As a constitutional law professor I knew better. I think that’s an example of inaction, and sometimes that can be as costly as action.”
Given the number of times Obama has votes “present” or failed to vote at all, I can’t see where he think that “inaction” is a bad thing. For all of Obama’s rhetoric about hope all I can see in him now is the spindly, decayed finger of despair - a hideous malformation of hope, which has twisted itself into being the advocate of hopelessness - thus the utter degradation of modern liberalism.
Contrast this nauseating sell-out of basic human decency to John McCain’s views:
There is no greater nobility than to sacrifice for a great cause and no cause greater than protection of human dignity. Decency, human compassion, self-sacrifice and the defense of innocent life are at the core of John McCain’s value system and will be the guiding principles of a McCain Presidency.
If you are pro-life, there is only one person to vote for in November.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats, Life Issues, Republicans
53 Comments
1. Christian Wright | February 29th, 2008 at 6:09 am
Deleted - off topic.
2. Christian Wright | February 29th, 2008 at 6:15 am
Deleted - off topic.
3. Christian Wright | February 29th, 2008 at 6:17 am
Deleted - off topic.
4. Freedom1 | February 29th, 2008 at 6:38 am
Highly Poisonous Ricin Possibly Found At Las Vegas Hotel; 7 Hospitalized
John McCain’s defense of life is so refreshing! This issue was the reason I couldn’t wholeheartedly support Guiliani as president. With John McCain, I know that he is pro-life and will act to protect and preserve the life of every America, even unborn Americans.
5. Barack Obama » Obam&hellip | February 29th, 2008 at 6:44 am
[...] Blogging Tips from PureBlogging wrote an interesting post today on Obama Kneels Before the Culture of DeathHere’s a quick excerptROME, FEB. 27, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Senator Barack Obama’s claim that … Cleveland, Ohio, on Tuesday with Senator Hillary Clinton, Obama said of [...]
6. CeCe | February 29th, 2008 at 6:45 am
Deleted - off topic.
7. kipling | February 29th, 2008 at 7:03 am
Mark - the fact of the matter is that Terry Shivo was brain dead. Indeed this was diagnosed and not contested by any legitimate medical professional. A terrible tragedy happened to her - but she was completely gone. Further it was only the fact that she did not have a signed legal document indicating her desires which she told her husband and friends that if she was ever left in a vegetative state that she wished to not be kept alive by artificial methods that the issue ever came up.
Somehow though you so horribly misconstrue the situation that you turn into liberals being ‘pro-death’. Nobody is pro-death. Your really really sick you know Mark.
8. js | February 29th, 2008 at 7:43 am
The TX bill was for terminally ill patients.
Terry S. was not in the same class. Her heart beat, she was aware of her surroundings, all she needed was someone to make sure she was fed.
He husband and his doctors fed her through a tube into her stomach. They refused to try to get her to eat, and refused tests that would indicate if she could.
The courts rejected medical doctors reports that Terry S. could have benefited from care and therapy that her husband had denied her since 1991.
Terry was not brain dead. She responded to voice and visual and touch. Her eyes opened and she looked around. Thats a long way from terminally ill.
That was a petty shallow move CW.
9. js | February 29th, 2008 at 8:00 am
‘Somehow though you so horribly misconstrue the situation that you turn into liberals being ‘pro-death’. Nobody is pro-death.”
I guess you dont consider abortion to be death.
10. kipling | February 29th, 2008 at 8:02 am
If you want to ague on some religious basis that we should never let anyone die under any circumstances - even if it was their express wish - then that is one thing. Thats a separate debate. But the case is quite clear in medical terms and js is just simply making things up
Look - if you actually bother to read any of the case history (which is not difficult to do) you find that time after time she was examined by neurologists, psychologists, and other medical professionals who consistently ruled that she was in a permanent vegetative state.
Further her brain weighed 50% of a normal woman’s brain and 70% of the cortical cells were dead.
In sum - the diagnosis is clear . she was not aware of her surroundings. she did not respond to anyone . And certainly it was not just that “she needed someone to help feed her” as js would have us believe.
Look its clear that you simply want to avoid all the demonstrated facts of the case. For some reason your religious beliefs are overriding any sense of logical conclusion.
11. OhioOrrin | February 29th, 2008 at 8:05 am
the special, saturday session by congress was unacceptable federal interference into a states’ rights issue!
this shameful kowtowing to single issue constituents w/in the gop, turned-off many true conservatives I personally know & caused me to re-register as an indie.
remember “true” conservatives (?) - balance the damn budget, respect states’ rights, REDUCE the size of govt, etc
I’ll say again - “social conservatives” are just another variation of intrusive, big govt supporters & have driven the party into the minority on the fed & state levels.
12. kipling | February 29th, 2008 at 8:06 am
“i guess you don’t consider abortion to be death”
Two things
(1) you cannot die if you never lived. Insisting that life begins at conception is something I cannot understand on any scientific basis. I guess if you are deeply religious perhaps. But arguing that a few celled blastocyte is the same is a baby is just not scientifically sound
(2) a typical lie from the right is that the left is “pro-abortion”. It flows of your tongue as if we think its entertaining or enjoyable. Nobody is “pro-abortion” in that sense. People are for women having the right to terminate - or abort . Saying that we are “pro-abortion” is like saying people who are for the death penalty are “pro-death”
Clearly just stupid
13. plainjane | February 29th, 2008 at 8:09 am
js | February 29th, 2008 at 7:43 am
Thank you for that “fact” filled medical diagnosis Dr.js.
I was just witnessed a similar situation with friends of my spouse’s in-laws. The husband and kids agonized for days. After seeing how these decisions are made first hand my message to js and Mark is butt out of these people’s lives. Quit playing doctor, spiritual counselor, judge and jury; no one on this earth is so pure.
14. OhioOrrin | February 29th, 2008 at 8:10 am
oh yea, don’t tell me Roe is crappy federal law & turn around & support this schiavo nonsense!
oh yea, one other thing there 4 all the single issue social “conservatives” (not)…
where’s ur damn outrage at all those fertility clinics destroying embyros AT THE DIRECTION OF THE OWNERS…that is, the parents.
it is settled law that fertility clinic embyros ARE PROPERTY.
deal w it.
15. CeCe | February 29th, 2008 at 8:23 am
It was also settled law at one point that slaves were property. Point is, the law is wrong sometimes.
16. OhioOrrin | February 29th, 2008 at 8:44 am
so where’s the outrage over fertility clinics CeCe…
the demonstrations, blogging, rush, hannity, etc?
nowhere.
‘cept 4 Roe huh?
hypocrytical social “conservatives” runied the gop.
buckley (RIP) would’ve been horrifed by the single issue socials ABSOLUTELY DRIVING THIS GOP INTO PERMENANT BACKBENCHERS, FED & STATE.
17. Brian G. | February 29th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Noonan,
“If you are pro-life, there is only one person to vote for in November.”
Wrong. The vast majority of American voters would concur that in this day and age, to make abortion (or any other social issue) the central issue of the election is pure stupidity.
Many people who consider themselves pro-life will probably vote for a Democrat, because they can’t stand the killing that’s happening in Iraq every day. Maybe they’ll vote for a Democrat because even though they are conservative socially, they are compassionate and sensible enough to realize that the government, especially federal, has no business mandating who can marry whom and who must deliver their unborn child. What is this, the Soviet Union?
Partisanship is a terrible thing. Look what it’s done to people on this site!
18. Pain | February 29th, 2008 at 9:05 am
We find it a curiosity that the sole event that is certain to take place in the course of human existence causes such rancor amongst persons with divergent political ideologies.
Kipling is correct in his display of the medical facts that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Terri Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state and that the major mass of her brain had indeed liquefied rendering her personality irretrievable under the current and likely near future capability of Terran medicine.
This matter is made a more religious one because of the implications it has for a religion that is struggling to maintain its status along with a race of persons who are not breeding at a rate to remain in a majority to the end of the current century. The irrational comments of js in #8 and #9 bear this out with clear desperation despite the facts of the case having been offered.
For those with blind faith, the version which We, Ourselves, know is purely destructive for it does not allow one to see alternatives to a decided course, no tonnage of facts will ever outweigh the grain of sand that their world is made of no matter how professionally presented or damningly obvious.
We understand the font from which such minds spring but We do not pity them their fantasies for while they live it is not Our duty to judge them. The Law however is clear as is the direction that some in America would love to take the country. Fortune has smiled on the greatest on Terra that those who would wrap themselves in theocratic nonsense have little to no chance in gaining any greater power to govern than they most recently had in the Congress.
Most consumers, and Americans are great consumers, are more concerned with matter corporeal as they relate to government than the gossamer matters that Noonan gleans from his Catholic talking points news sources.
We do delight in seeing him fight the “good fight” however!
Qu’ul cuda praedex nihil!
19. CeCe | February 29th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Ohio, there is condemnation of the practices of fertility clinics among those who are pro-life. I have read many pro-life blogs on this subject. As for hannity, et al, I really don’t listen to much of them. They would have to speak for themselves.
Roe is horrible federal law because it bestows on some human beings a private license to kill other human beings. Is this really a legitimate right? One that should be federally protected?
We so called permanent backbenchers won how many presidencies for the GOP? I could be wrong, Ohio, but I am pretty sure that Buckley was pro-life.
20. Willem van Oranje | February 29th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Deleted - misleading comment.
21. Some Assembly Required | February 29th, 2008 at 9:32 am
“…they are compassionate and sensible enough to realize that the government, especially federal, has no business mandating who can marry whom and who must deliver their unborn child. What is this, the Soviet Union?” - Brian G.
Exactly! This is what really amazes me about this site. Self proclamined ‘conservatives’ here will fight tooth and nail against abortion and same sex marriage yet in the next thread argue that socialism is the devil and government needs to be limited. The hypocrisy from thread to thread is truly astounding.
22. Mark Noonan | February 29th, 2008 at 10:56 am
kipling,
By its fruit shall the tree be known - you can say you’re not for death all you want, but the position of the so-called “pro-choice” movement seems to result in a very high number of corpses…at least those in favor of the death penalty (which ranks do not include myself) clearly state what they are in favor of - death for criminals. You in the culture of death are too cowardly for such clear speaking - you’re for “choice” as if the making of a choice is more important than what is chosen.
Sorry if I drip with contempt for your position, but it is a contemptible view to hold.
23. Magnum Serpentine | February 29th, 2008 at 10:56 am
I do not see how this issue of abortion should be a qualifier when determining who should be President. Yet we hear it here, “If you are Anti-choice, vote for McCain,”
The last time I checked, the United States was not a Theocracy, and Abortion is very legal.
With the republican economy about to implode, with the Nation in a Recession, With the nation in a useless, pointless, war, republicans are asked to determine the next president, upon the question if they are Pro choice or Anti Choice, ignore the true problems of the nation they say.
I will vote for the person who will pull us out of the war. I will vote for the person who will seal up the disastrous tax cuts to the upper 5% of the rich, I will vote for the person who protects our economy from cheap imports and cheep labor.
I will not use Abortion to determine who is President.
And I consider pulling our troops out of Iraq the most important reason to vote for a candidate. The next important factor is the Economy and ending the Disastrous Tax cuts to the wealthy, Then ending the “Every child left behind” act and enacting true educational reforms. These are the reasons I will vote for the candidate of my choice.
Abortion is not on my list as a qualifier. its not important. Ending the military occupation and the disastrous war in Iraq, the Economy and Education are my big three qualifiers and are most Important.
24. Mark Noonan | February 29th, 2008 at 10:58 am
SAR,
You might want to figure out what, exactly, hypocrisy entails - conservatism is all about adhering to truth…the truth is, we must not abort; we must not have same sex marriage; we must not steal the property of one and give it to another; we must defend ourselves against attack…you live in a very strange world if you think that because someone is in favor of low taxes he must therefor be in favor of murdering unborn children…
25. Mark Noonan | February 29th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Magnum,
Your obtusness is on a very high level today - my point here is that if you are pro-life, there is only one person to vote for…not that everyone must vote on this one issue.
If you’re going to make monumentally foolish comments, please go over to Daily Kos where they won’t stick out like a sore thumb.
26. Mark Noonan | February 29th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Kipling,
Ok, at what magical point does the embryo become a human being? And would you agree to a ban on abortion once that point is reached?
You, no doubt, will not recognise how insane your views are - at least not at first; hopefully, with the grace of God, you will finally understand that, hey, if its alive at (say) 100 days into the pregnancy, then it simply must have been alive at 99 days, and 98 days, and so forth…
27. OhioOrrin | February 29th, 2008 at 11:24 am
CeCe - don’t count the god Reagan amongst those elected by social (not) “concervatives” cause he was pro-choice & moderate on many social issues.
course he also knew how to balance a budget, shrink the fed govt, keep outta states rights issues (marrage, abortion, drivers licenses)…all things BIG govt socials don’t care about.
hey, is that a box of snakes on that back bench?
28. kipling | February 29th, 2008 at 11:34 am
i didn’t say it wasn’t ‘alive’ - assuredly an embryo is. So are insects , flowers, bacteria culture etc. What I said was that blastocyte is not the same as a baby. That I stand by - if you are arguing that a few celled organism has as much constitutional rights, consciousness, etc then you are the one that is truly insane.
Can I define the moment when it becomes ‘human’. Of course not - nor more than I can give a precise moment when a human becomes brain dead. But because we cannot answer such questions (yet at least) does not mean that we should take the utterly ridiculous position that a few celled organism is a human being.
Why stop there? Why not every egg? Every sperm? Lets go arrest those women for not getting pregnant constantly from the time that they become fertile till menopause in that case. That is the logical conclusion of your insanity after all
29. js | February 29th, 2008 at 11:54 am
It is pretty silly to take a position that life is precious just because people are religious. Thats a desparate move.
Its also pretty silly how TS’s husband finally “remembered” that Terry didnt want to live that way….after the money was running out. As long as all that money lasted, he could keep the lawyers paid and spend spend spend.
Once it was gone, the real daylight started to shine.
There are a lot of silly things in this blog.
So in reality, if it is religion that defines the value of life, it only does so through the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
So help me God.
30. Piggy | February 29th, 2008 at 11:57 am
So when are you going to write up John McCain was against it as well?
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/may/07052511.html
31. js | February 29th, 2008 at 11:58 am
“Can I define the moment when it becomes ‘human’. Of course not - nor more than I can give a precise moment when a human becomes brain dead”
Thats spliting hairs isnt it.
The second the first cells divide, it is a living human being as long as the two cells that created it came from human beings.
The different stages it goes through does not change that fact. It was concived with human cells, it will remain human until it is dead.
32. Some Assembly Required | February 29th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
“conservatism is all about adhering to truth…the truth is, we must not abort; we must not have same sex marriage…”
This is not Truth, this is Opinion and personal Belief.
Standing for a tax cut to limit government but fighting for government to infringe on a persons personal choice on who they want to marry; then fighting against government regulation for fire arms, is Hypocritical Mark.
But the constitution… 2nd amendment… I say 2nd amendment… Convenient how the constitution only applies if it coincides with your beliefs.
33. Magnum Serpentine | February 29th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Well, Mark,
Those views are not just mine. the Citizens of this nation put abortion in the bottom single digits (like 2-5% ) in importance when they decide to vote. Their top choices are the Economy, War and Education. A persons values etc don’t even get out of the high single digits.
34. CeCe | February 29th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Ohio, Reagan absolutely was elected by social conservatives and ran specifically as a pro-life president. I don’t know what Reagan you may have voted for, but that is the one I voted for. How you can assume I don’t care about states rights is really amazing. I never even intimated that. Protection of human life is a legitimate function of the federal government. Your reference to box of snakes????
35. js | February 29th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
33. Magnum Serpentine | February 29th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Well, Mark,
Those views are not just mine. the Citizens of this nation put abortion in the bottom single digits (like 2-5%
ooooo
thats a lot of pig slop. the msm did it.
36. OhioOrrin | February 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
CeCe - STATES issue licenses; medical, marrage, drivers, etc.
the fed govt has NO BUSINESS IN THESE AREAS.
read the 10th admendment please.
then come back & we’ll discuss actual, true conservatism across many, many areas not just what single issue “social conservatives” falsely believe it to be.
37. SteaM | February 29th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Oh please, the Shiavo case was disgusting to me.
Not too long before that went down my mother was in a coma for three months. Her brainwaves deteriorated to the point where the doctors told us with confidence that even if she were to wake up from her coma she would not be the person we knew as our mother, or wife in my father’s case, or sister to her siblings, or daughter to her suviving parents.
My father made the desicion finally to pull the plug and she slowly passed away over the span of two weeks. Her body was given the choice to continue to fight the infection or go peacefully. Her brain had no choice, it would not recover and she would not be happy. I knew she didn’t want to be like that and honestly I don’t know many people who would. I wouldn’t either.
I am of course a fan of science and medical advancement but we can only play God for so long before the body just gives in. We are living beings and when our bodies and minds have no life left it is only moral and respectful to that life to let nature take it’s course.
What the government did in stepping in was immoral and completely overstepping their bounds.
To them it was about life.
To everyone else it looked more like a political stunt.
Either way, it was wrong. I loved my mother and was very happy to see my father decide to let her pass. She was tired, her body beat down. I couldn’t be content with her being a shell of the woman I used to know. Needing people to change her and feed her and wash her. Watching my father suffer through it just like Shiavo’s husband did.
And think about what all you wh supported her being kept alive did to her poor husband? My GOD. It’s the most horrible thing a husband has to do let alone having the entire country telling him what to do even if it goes against what his heart tells him to do and what nature is begging for.
One of the most shameful things that our federal government has ever done.
Just awful.
38. NeoClown | February 29th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
I know the urge is strong, but conservatives simply must fight the temptation to peek into peoples’ bedroom, and hospital windows. You believe the Government should interject itself into every facet of our private lives; big brother know best and all that, but you’re wrong on this. The American public has grown weary of the conservative issues of gay marriage, abortion, and most particularly, the Terri Schiavo-grand-standing-debacle. These social issues have cracked the Republican Party, cost you the congress in 2006, and will cost you the White House in November. Wake up.
39. Eric T | February 29th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
“If you are pro-life, there is only one person to vote for in November”
Huckabee is still by far the best candidate out there, that has a pro-life record to prove what he says. His record on 2nd amendment and many other issues is far superior to McCain’s. Mike’s record is impressive enough to motivate me to get out there and tear down Obama signs, get involved and really get fired up and excited about the 2008 election. McCain’s record on alot of issues important to me, is rather half-a$$,
This race is like someone wanting to buy a Harley FLH or Heritage Softail and getting on the “straight talk express” is like getting overexcited and running out buying a moped or an old 1981 Honda CB 500. Your just not going to be happy with it.
Mike is the Real Deal on alot of the important issues.
I’m trying to find things about McCain I like and can relate with, It just not too easy. Hopefully Mike can crank out a win in Texas and force his way on the ballot.
40. Kahn | February 29th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Some assembly, you’ve never seen me argue against gay marriage. I don’t care if people marry trees.
But could you please tell me on what day of a pregnancy and at what hour a fetus ceases being part of the mothers body and becomes a distinctly different person. Please be specific. And prove it.
41. Almiranta | February 29th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
kipling, the autopsy showed that while the part of Terri Schaivo’s brain that controlled things like communication was badly damaged, the part that controls comprehension was largely intact.
This—to use a phrase that Libs seem to think is compelling—”is consistent” with her frantic objections to having her feeding tube removed. Her nurses felt she was aware of the implications of having the tube removed, and she fought violently when they tried to take it away.
She showed comprehension of many things—she could tell the difference between water and orange juice, for example, and could express her preference for orange juice. Her nurses said she could not only swallow jello, but they had seen patients who were allowed to receive therapy progress in their ability to eat and swallow when they had been less able than Terri to suck on a washcloth dipped in liquid, or to swallow jello.
The primary argument against killing Terri Schiavo was that she had been denied all forms of therapy, even the simplest range of motion exercises designed to keep her limbs from painfully contracting.
And the claim that her brain had “liquified” was fully bogus, an invention by a liberal television talk show host.
You people insist on quoting your Liberal gurus as if they really are accurate or correct, when in fact they are just like you, cherry-picking facts to find whatever they can to support their preconceived positions and discarding whatever does not.
The goal, regarding Schiavo, was to give her the full protection which should have been hers under the law, which included a new hearing with new evidence, allowing testimony from caregivers and girlfriends of Terris’ husband which had not been admitted before, and giving her the chance to have therapy to see if she could improve.
Spotted owls and very old trees get more legal protection than Terri Schiavo got. And what was so appalling was the DETERMINATION of so many people that she should be killed. It was absolutely creepy to see these people—some of whom seem to be represented here—-who fought so hard to keep her family from even giving her a chance, who in fact argued FOR killing her. It was ghoulish.
She was not taken off life support. Food is not considered life support. She was starved to death.
42. SteaM | March 1st, 2008 at 12:52 am
Almiranta,
Did you even read what I wrote?
It was a horrible immoral act for the government to get involved in a private matter like this.
Disgusting, and horribly wrong.
You right about her and what she wanted like you knew her, had spoken with her. No one had spoken with her because from what I recall she could really talk.
Water and orange juice? That’s a simple animal instinc: Sugar tastes good, represents a substance that will give quick energy to the body. Water is essential but does not have the preference that something with sugar will for the body.
43. SteaM | March 1st, 2008 at 1:07 am
“right” = “write”
44. Willem van Oranje | March 1st, 2008 at 2:45 am
Almiranta
No Almirante, you are very badly mistaken, there was extensive damage to nearly all brain regions, including the cerebral cortex (where those complex functions, like your ‘comprehension’, takes place). What’s more, not only was the cerebral cortex extensively damaged, one critical component for the functioning of the cerebral cortex was completely lost: the large pyramidal neurons. Without those neurons, even a fully intact cortex would be utterly useless. That would be like having an computer with all the internal pieces of hardware intact, but completely stripped of its internal wiring and cables. It would be totally useless.
In Terri’s case, it wasn’t only the ‘cables’, every piece of separate hardware (motherboard, processor, memorybanks, harddrive) was extensively damaged as well.
45. Willem van Oranje | March 1st, 2008 at 3:02 am
Almiranta
Again, utterly WRONG. She received that kind of therapy to the very last day, it’s a standard component of palliative care.
You are referring to therapy to ?cure? her. There is no cure for PVS, that’s why it is called Permanent.
46. Mark Noonan | March 1st, 2008 at 3:16 am
Willem,
The “P” stands for “persistent”, not “permanent” - “persistent” because there have been a lot of cases of people in a “persistent vegetative state” waking up and returning to normal.
As for Terri’s care - there you are flat wrong; as soon as Mr. Schaivo got the settlement money, he ceased all therapy designed to help Terri get better and started seeking her death at the earliest possible moment…only after the settlement was done, for instance, did he come out with the “Terri didn’t want to live like this” schtick.
In my view, the likely sequence of events is that Schaivo attempted to off his wife, failed but managed to get her into a coma, and then decided to make a buck off it, and then complete the process of killing her so that he could go on with life with the woman he was shacking up with while supposedly caring for his sick wife.
47. Willem van Oranje | March 1st, 2008 at 3:41 am
Almiranta
Oh, My, God. Have you even followed the case? Terri has a Law, especially written for her and only for her, to give her ‘another day in court’. A ‘day in court’ that lasted for almost EIGHT YEARS. The Federal Government even issued subpoenas for her to appear in the Senate!!!!! It was preposterous beyond imagination. The Senate did not act on it because that would have certainly turned this whole mess into a three-ring-circus. The claim that she didn’t have enough chances to ‘get her day in court’, is by far the most ludicrous I have ever seen.
Any ‘new’ evidence WAS reviewed by Judge Greer. It was ‘evidence’ by people who had never seen Terri. They based their ‘evidence’ on news reports and edited video-footage by the Schindlers. The ‘caregivers’ were seeking media attention when the case got national attention and their claims where debunked in a matter of minutes. That is, if you were tuned in to anything other than Fox News.
I felt extremely sorry for the Schindlers: they were abused by a lot of attention whores who turned this family tragedy in such a disgusting spectacle.
48. Willem van Oranje | March 1st, 2008 at 5:01 am
Mark, correct, it is persistent, that doesn’t change the meaning of the condition.
‘Waking up’ from a PVS is extremely rare, there are only a few cases know in medical literature. You are more likely to win the jackpot in the lottery twice in a row.
Around the Terri-Spectacle, there were a lot of people who CLAIMED to know someone who had awaken from PVS. A lot of those claims made it into the media. Upon checking though, all those claims turned out to be false. Nobody of them had been clinically diagnosed with PVS. They had been in coma and a lot of them not even that. There is a world of difference between being in a coma and a pvs. I spoke with a lot of people back then who even compared people with severe retardation with PVS. That was beyond absurd.
A couple of months after the settlement, Michael indicated for the first time that treatment for a urinary tract infection should be halted and he entered a Do Not Rescuscitate order. This was done after consultation with his wife’s physician. He rescinded these decisions after the Schindler family objected.
A DNR is not “seeking somebody’s death”, it’s “allowing somebody to die from natural causes”. There is a world of difference between the two. The legal procedure to remove her feeding tube was started TWO years after that settlement. Removing a feeding tube is “seeking somebody’s death”. Or more popular: “pulling the plug”.
This was after 7 years of extensive testing which all came back with the same results (PVS) and after extensive therapies, including experimental ones, that had failed. All of them.
Ever heard of the Five Stages of Grief? It’s not uncommon for humans who have been engaged in a legal battle in similar cases that after winning (or loosing) such a case in court, that the new reality sinks in and is accepted.
With the realisation that her situation had become permanent, or persistent, came also the question, what would Terri have wanted. Terri had the luck that she didn’t only tell her husband. It wasn’t only Michael, there were witnesses present when she told that. All of this was settled in court. And appealed, and appealed, and appealed. For years and years on end. But the Court decided that Terri didn’t want to live like this and that she didn’t want that extremely rare chance of ‘waking up’.
You may not like it, you may decide otherwise for yourself or for your wife. But the Courts found the evidence sufficient.
You can try to impugn Michael’s character all you want but it is totally irrelevant to Terri’s case. The only questions that were relevant were:
1) Is Terri in a PVS? The verdict of the Court was YES after extensive consultation by all sorts of specialists (approved by Michael, by Terri’s Guardians, by the Schindlers). The autopsy proved that all those specialist that had been legally consulted were correct.
2) Did Terri want to live like that? The verdict of the Court was NO.
Only those two questions mattered. No matter how much mud you throw at Michael, it’s completely irrelevant.
49. js | March 1st, 2008 at 7:55 am
You have a lot of rhetoric there William.
Why didnt you mention the fact that the real reason Terri was killed was because the Judge refused to acknowledge the testimony that Terry actually was aware of things (and it was proven). The Florida Laws did not consider Terri to be in a PVS, but Greer pushed it through not based on all of the evidence, but on his own personnal beliefs.
Terri was killed by a liberal judge excercising political activism.
50. js | March 1st, 2008 at 8:13 am
The great Judge that killed Terri;
During the trial of the Schiavo matter, the factual issue of whether Terri Schiavo would want to live if suffering serious medical setbacks arose. Because Michael Schiavo and his Hemlock Society lawyer George Felos had no written evidence of her signing a living will, before her mysterious 1990 injuries, Michael belatedly presented uncorroborated (and likely perjured) testimony that Terri would not want to keep living, which is contradicted by her strong reaction as recently as this last Friday when told by attorney Barbara Weller that her feeding tube would be removed.
Under the circumstances of the trial testimony, Greer knew that a guardian ad litem (court appointed representative of a young or incompetent party) should be appointed to represent Terri’s interests, because her husband had a self-serving and conflicting interest in killing her, due to his receipt of her personal injury awards, and his convenience in not having to care for her.
Instead of appointing a guardian ad litem to represent Terri’s interests before the Court, Greer contended that he could evaluate her interest properly. By doing so, Greer violated both Canon 5(E)1 and 2 of the Florida Judicial Canons, which prevent a judge from serving as a guardian except for a member of the judge’s family, and Florida statute 744.309(b), which states the Canon in a statute enacted by the Florida legislature.
Of course, Greer could not have gotten away with such a clear violation of judicial integrity, of Chief Judge Altenbernd of the Second District Court of Appeal had not ratified his action in a 2001 decision issued from that court’s Lakeland, FL. Courthouse
http://www.renewamerica.us/news/050325greer.htm
51. FmrMarine | March 1st, 2008 at 9:44 am
orangepeel
“Ever heard of the Five Stages of Grief?”
Ive heard of ONE stage of BULL S#!T and you just met it.
Terri was Murdered by the , lawyer, the “judge” and her lying, thieving, adulterous “husband”.
I hope the SAME fate awaits each of them.
The marxist squeal about 4,000 US soldiers deaths. While ignoring the SIX MILLION baby deaths during the same period of time.
You lefties are a truly deceived bunch.
52. Pain | March 1st, 2008 at 7:49 pm
No need to take Our word for it but Terri Schiavo’s soul had left her body long before she was pronounced dead by the staff where her body gasped last for air. The form of massive gray and white matter deterioration that she suffered rendered her blind and unable to respond to external stimulti. Only the autonomic functions of her body and the most basic of cranial nerve responses remained.
We, Ourselves, ask all of you so certain of an Eternal Reward why do all of you seek so much to cling to a shell that is destined to return to dust? Have you no faith in this great thing you espouse?
53. CeCe | March 2nd, 2008 at 7:55 pm
So, Ohio, all those state statutes against murder are unconstitutional? Okay, whatever you say.