U.S. Must Stand by Colombia
March 2nd, 2008 at 02:27pm Mark Noonan
Chavez is getting more insane and dangerous all the time:
CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela President Hugo Chavez ordered tank battalions to the Colombian border and mobilized warplanes on Sunday after Colombian troops struck inside Ecuador in an attack on rebels.
He also ordered the shutting of Venezuela’s embassy in Colombia and the withdrawal of all diplomatic staff in the dispute, warning Colombia’s actions could spark a war in South America.
“Mr. Defense Minister, move me 10 battalions to the frontier with Colombia immediately, tank battalions,” Chavez said on his weekly TV show. “The air force should mobilize. We do not want war.”
Colombia’s military said on Saturday troops had killed Raul Reyes, a leader of Marxist FARC rebels, during an attack on a jungle camp in Ecuador in a severe blow to Latin America’s oldest guerrilla insurgency. The operation included air strikes and fighting with rebels across the frontier.
On Saturday, the anti-U.S. Chavez warned Colombia against doing the same in Venezuela because he would interpret it as a “cause for war.” On Sunday, he said he would send Russian-made fighter jets into U.S. ally Colombia if its troops struck in Venezuela.
The US is committed by treaty to assist Colombia in defending itself and I think it vital that we inform Chavez that any attempt to make war will bring him into conflict with the United States. We cannot allow Chavez to bully himself into domination of South America - and the only way to deal with someone acting like a thug is to stand firm against him.
Entry Filed under: Foreign Affairs
85 Comments
1. eric | March 2nd, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Before some left-wing kook chimes in, let me just say that the evil Bush administration is probably engineering this conflict so that we can enter into war with Venezuela as an impetus to steal their precious oil.
It is always about the oil.
End of faux troll rant.
2. Arctic Fox | March 2nd, 2008 at 3:07 pm
So where does the Iraq war leave America with its commitments to help their allies defend themselves?
America does not have the available troops or resources to enter another war. Not while Iraq and Afghanistan continue to be such a drain on the three services.
Chavez is secure in the knowledge that he can do this because America is already over-extended, and cannot afford (monetarily or otherwise) to come to Columbia or anyone elses rescue.
3. Michael | March 2nd, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Claiming that the US military is overextended just goes to show how little you know about the size and strength of the military. Chavez is a bully without much military power who will do things like he’s doing to Columbia as long as he can get away with it. Watch how fast he backs off when he sees 3 or 4 US aircraft carriers steaming just off his shores.
4. sleepygene | March 2nd, 2008 at 3:49 pm
who cares, this is none of our concern. Let them sort it out. Besides if stuff happended down there what troops would we send?
5. Rich | March 2nd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
“America does not have the available or resources to enter another war ”
Wow what an idiotic statement. Any clue what our Navy and Air Force could do to Venezuela in 24 hours.
6. Rich | March 2nd, 2008 at 3:57 pm
“who cares, this is none of our concern. Let them sort it out. Besides if stuff happended down there what troops would we send?”
Gee I don’t know maybe an aircraft carrier strike force or two. No need to invade obviously. Why even bother commenting. I guess libs don’t believe we should defend our allies. With friends like these.
7. neocon | March 2nd, 2008 at 4:55 pm
>>who cares, this is none of our concern.<<
And this is how the Democrats plan on repairing our world image. ROFLMAO!
8. Mark Noonan | March 2nd, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Gene,
Gee, a tyrant threatens a long-time US ally with military action, and you think its no concern of ours…how very creepy of you.
As for what we could send:
At least two full carrier battle groups.
At least two regiments of Marines, plus associated support units.
Two infantry and one armoured division.
Various fighter and bomber squadrons.
In short, enough to do the job, if necessary. You guys on the left really have to start learning some facts and not just keep rote repeating what MoveOn spoon feeds you.
9. plainjane | March 2nd, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Most here could not even have a logical discussion of the issues, yet the neocons have so poisoned the Republican Party, immediately the cry goes up from the wingnuts to send in the marines, it is the only way. Maybe we can also catch us some Al Qaeda in Columbia.
Wingnuts might sell the Chavez fear, but I find him nothing more than a pest
10. Diana Powe | March 2nd, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Mark,
You might want to correct the country name in the title.
11. weatherbee | March 2nd, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Hi plainjane,
Unfortunately, I don’t think it would be wise for us to turn our back on an alliance. If Chavez chose to attack Columbia, the U.S. is obligated by treaty to defend this country. It would be much worst for our reputation amongst our (remaining) allies to see that we do not defend our allies than Iraq ever was.
Finally, the other issue is that who is behind Chavez? I am thinking the Iranian Administration may be goading and posturing as well (i.e. visit to Iraq at the same time?).
Kindest Regards,
weatherbee
12. sleepygene | March 2nd, 2008 at 5:43 pm
From what I read it seems Chavez is telling the Colombians not to encroach on Venezuelian territroy. Since the Colombians previously enroached on another sovereign nation; it seems perfectedly reasonable for Chavez to warn off the Colombians. I am not a commie because I support Chavez’s right to protect his sovereign nation so please spare me that line, thanks.
13. Diana Powe | March 2nd, 2008 at 5:56 pm
weatherbee,
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but what treaty are you referring to that obligates the United States to defend Colombia from Venezuela?
14. Caribe | March 2nd, 2008 at 5:57 pm
How do you dare to give your opinions on LatinAmerican politics when you don’t even know how to spell a country’s name… COLOMBIA not Columbia. And by the way, America is a continent, not a country…
I wonder what the US would do if Mexico decides to hunt a mexican criminal in any of their bordering states, they send airplanes, they attack, they land, they take the bodies and after all those violations of sovereingty they decide to call Bush to let him know that they violated the US border and the airspace…
Chavez is making this bigger by sending troops to the border but he is right about two things: the violation of his neighbor’s space is unadmissible and Colombia seems to take the role of being LatinAmerica´s Israel.
Check on your role in Colombia, what are you planning to do? stop drug production? ok… even if Colombia stops producing another one will come up till the so-called first world stops sniffing cocaine. Take all the money you spend in Colombia in working on your kids so they don’t try to evade reality and are happy in a country that seems to have it all but hapiness.
Remember… Colombia is the name of the country and it is part of a continent called America, or Sout America if you prefer, but still America :-) Geography 101.
15. Eric T | March 2nd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Chavez is a good reason to protect the borders, he has repeatedly vowed to crush American imperalism. How does he plan to deliver on that? Terrorism?
The libs will defend Chavez, they look to him for inspiration. Remember Hillary’s plan for oil companies in the debates, looks similar to Hugo’s.
16. plainjane | March 2nd, 2008 at 6:21 pm
How does he plan to deliver on that? Terrorism?Eric T | March 2nd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Eric, Boo!
17. Dalmo Accorsini | March 2nd, 2008 at 6:27 pm
It takes just a carrier! Nothing more then that! To crush the Simian Chavez to oblivion, is not a matter of going to war is a matter of getting into a justified conflict! Believe me the Venezuelan people will cheer the day that the simian is gone!
18. plainjane | March 2nd, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Dalmo Accorsini | March 2nd, 2008 at 6:27 pm
They may even greet us with candy and flowers.
19. LosMechanista | March 2nd, 2008 at 6:51 pm
But what about the coffee? Not the coffee! Please. Oh the humanity!
20. Kahn | March 2nd, 2008 at 6:59 pm
What defense treaty with Columbia?
Not that I like Chavez - but I’m not having any luck looking up a treaty.
21. ubi | March 2nd, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Imagine if Bin Ladden every day bombs a US City, takes Hillary and 700 more people as hostages, and Mexico and Canada support him and let his troops be on their borders.
Just imagine that you can get him at the border, and when you do so, Canada and Mexico says that you are an evil empire and gets their borderlines full or troops… attack troops.
22. eric | March 2nd, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Kahn,
It is the Rio Treaty.
check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_Treaty
23. PanamaJacked | March 2nd, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Caribe…you lost your point in your Geo 101 lesson. by the way…. it’s south not sout.
“two things: the violation of his neighbor?s space is unadmissible and Colombia seems to take the role of being LatinAmerica´s Israel”
is it unacceptable to violate a neighbor’s space if they are harboring murdering terroists wanted in your country–absolutley not. why should colOmbians suffer becuase Ecuador can’t police their own state. how moronic.
Colombia isn’t fighting neigboring countries like Israel. They are fighting the terrorist group FARC within their own borders or just over the borders if necessary to keep their own people safe.
Uribe has changed Colombia into a safer, more economically stable country than most of it’s neighbors for the fist time in decades.
Chavez can’t stand to see another country succeed in Democracy.
More power to Uribe for not responding to Chavez’s idiotic comments with useless words. When it comes time he will respond and Chavez will be no more.
24. Kahn | March 2nd, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Caribe, nice rant. But Colombia didn’t hunt down terrorists in Venezuela, did it? And just what was up with there being a base in Ecuador that was launching attacks into Colombia?
By the way, feel free to correct any spelling mistakes I might make. It makes you just about as important as a background sub-routine on my PC (yah, I’ve used it before).
25. Diana Powe | March 2nd, 2008 at 7:37 pm
eric,
Thanks for the information. It should be noted that the treaty does not obligate any signatory, including the United States, to any military action (emphasis added):
26. Michael | March 2nd, 2008 at 8:00 pm
If we ignore the Rio Treaty, is that what Obama means by “change?” Hell, he didn’t sign it. Why should he honor it?
27. Kahn | March 2nd, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Michael,
I don’t like Chavez either. But Chavez could actually try to support action against Colombia under this very same treaty.
Argentina attacked the Falklands going back to a claim from the 19th century. We were in a position of having treaties with two warring belligerents. Since Britain is a more important ally and because the hostile action was initiated by Argentina, we supported the Brits.
Then we see virtually no support when WE invoke the treaty after 9/11.
Ecuador has guerrillas operating there and making attacks in Colombia. Now, since this is who Colombia attacked, Ecuador could say, “hey thanks for doing that.” Otherwise, well why didn’t THEY do anything about the base? Were they giving tacit support to attacks on Colombia?
This would actually justify Colombia’s action and nullify Chavez’s claims.
So then, an attack on Colombia would be a new aggression. It’s possible (just speculating) that Chavez was even supporting FARC already.
I think its complicated and I hope Chavez is only bluffing. But IF he attacks and IF Colombia asks for help then we should help. Tricky though.
28. phnx | March 2nd, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Here is a perfect opportunity to ask each of the candidates how they would respond in the event of armed conflict between Colombia and Venezuela.
Any bets that the MSM will miss the opportunity?
29. TipTap | March 2nd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Hey there.
Am US national born in California but living with almost all my family in Colombia and Venezuela. Guess can bring here a slight different, and quite more realistic point of view.
It is a matter of fact that any nation leader gets a spike in popularity when engaging in war, or war preparations, if he can convince a good part of his people that that was the right thing to do.
It happens that this so called “comandante” Chavez just lost last December an election over his most caressed dream of transforming the country in a populist/pseudosocialist republic, including a law to make him perpetual in power.
Even with an official slight margin of difference in vote, as there was so much bias, power abuse and manipulation in the “chavista” campaign and the voting process itself, this defeat resulted in big time lost.
A lost that had made the “comandante” lost his temper more frequently, as well as opening his wide and not so clean mouth to put himself, and a great majority of a peacefull country, in more and more troubles with the rest of the world.
All this troops movements and rhetorics are about recovering points inside Venezuelan population to carry on a second political charge, internally.
Neither he or any of the military ranks want to engage in war with Colombia, as Colombia does not want to fight with its neighbours.
I believe that no human is a total saint, neither a total evil. So no matter how pros an cons we can found in each party involved, the most common thing to forget is the outcome of violent actions, as well as our most negative emotional attitudes.
Sending troops, bombers, fighters and carriers would not solve nothing on neither side of the countries possibly involved. Thats talking about the common and rel peolple, not about those few in power and in each of the inner circles.
30. TipTap | March 2nd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Correction; meant “real people” in last line…
31. Andres | March 2nd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Im from Colombia. The army went into Ecuador two days ago when, after an informant gave the location of a FARC camp in their territory, the camp was bombed and an important man of this organization was killed (they went to retrieve the body).
Chavez has shown that he’s with FARC on this one and he’s been all along. For any of those who knew what happened on February, the biggest march in our country, please know: WE DO NOT SUPPORT FARC, THEY DO NOT REPRESENT US, WE ARE AGAINST THEM AND WE WISH THEY JUST SIGNED A PEACE TREATY.
32. Pana | March 2nd, 2008 at 9:01 pm
ubi,
Your analogy depicts the situation exactly.
Colombia is succeeding in defending itself from a terrorist group which receives both, sanctuary and resources from the Chavez government, as well as sanctuary in Ecuador.
It’s a daunting task to try to structure a society when three of your neighbors (Venezuela, Nicaragua, and Ecuador) favor and aid your internal enemies.
The crux is that Chavez needs to:
- shift Venezuelan public attention away from the food shortages his economic policies have originated in its market
- beef-up internal support for a new referendum by means of which he would have the possibility of prennial re-election.
Just remember the select group of Chavez-friends: Iran’s Ahmedinejad, North Korea’s Kim Jong-il, Hezbollah’s Hassan Asrallah, and Lybia’s Khadafy.
AMERICA, WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR EYES. BARACK: THIS IS THE REAL WORLD ……NO TIME FOR NAIVETE!
33. christian Wright | March 2nd, 2008 at 9:02 pm
“In short, enough to do the job, if necessary.”
Isn’t that what Bush said about Afghanistan and Iraq?
34. Almiranta | March 2nd, 2008 at 9:14 pm
But, but, but….we all KNOW that FARC is Colombian, so how can FARC be in Ecuador? Or in Peru? Because we all KNOW that terrorists can only belong to one group, that once they get their membership cards and secret decoder rings they can only operate within that one group, that they never ever ever work with other groups, that they can’t be considered to be “in” other countries unless they officially declare their Terror Club allegiance when they enter and establish an official Terror Club branch office.
So those who thought FARC were operating in Ecuador must be wrong. And the Peruvians concerned about FARC incusions into the jungles and their setting up of training camps, in the same manner as Sendero Luminoso, must be wrong, too.
And obviously, if Hugo is supporting FARC, he can’t posslbly be supporting a rebuilding of S.L. Because of that one terrorist/one affiliation rule the Left finds so compelling.
And besides, who cares? It’s like the good old days so yearned for by the Left, when Uncle Saddam was torturing people just for fun—none of OUR business. We should just look the other way, and remember—-the intel about Marxist terrorists in South America working with Islamic terrorists is just, what’s that new catchphrase??? Oh yeah, FEAR MONGERING.
As long as we stay home and lay low and don’t bother anyone, no one is going to come after us.
And if they do, we’ll just apologize.
………….
BTW, just a query—has jane EVER been right? Even close? This latest janegibberish seems to be just more of the same:
“…the neocons have so poisoned the Republican Party, immediately the cry goes up from the wingnuts to send in the marines…”
35. Rich | March 2nd, 2008 at 9:18 pm
“Just remember the select group of Chavez-friends: Iran’s Ahmedinejad, North Korea’s Kim Jong-il, Hezbollah’s Hassan Asrallah, and Lybia’s Khadafy.”
Don’t forget the libs in the U.S. as well as shown by our resident trolls on this site.conceal cheered
36. Rich | March 2nd, 2008 at 9:20 pm
No clue where the end of my post came from. Must be some government spy filtering software.
37. GOP4ME | March 2nd, 2008 at 9:35 pm
I love how Plaininsane and the rest of her rotten crew attack the US first and minimize Chavez’s maniacal actions/rantings.
He’s just a pest? He’s a friend of FARC for FVCK’s sake! This just goes to show how Jonah Goldberg had it right in his book. If you think cozying up to an actual terroristic group is okay and that GWB and the USA are somehow the source of all evil then you leftists are fascistic morons (I know I am being redundant there).
I wonder, do you think you can drive around the capital of Venezuela (Caracas) with a “Chavez Lied, People Died?” bumper sticker?
Could you do that in DC?
Based on your truthful answer, which one country is being lead by a fascist dictator?
38. Kahn | March 2nd, 2008 at 9:36 pm
CW, you just look so ignorant. Stop it.
39. Almiranta | March 2nd, 2008 at 9:47 pm
“Just remember the select group of Chavez-friends: Iran’s Ahmedinejad, North Korea’s Kim Jong-il, Hezbollah’s Hassan Asrallah, and Lybia’s Khadafy.”
And Obama, as soon as he has been crowned.
40. js | March 2nd, 2008 at 9:58 pm
When AQ was in Afghanistan, and the Taliban refused to surrender them, the entire world endorsed the USA invasion. Protecting the terrorists made 9-11 an act of war, instead of a lucky day for terrorists.
If this group is attacking Columbia, and a foreign nation (Equador or Venezuela) knowingly gives it protection and refuge, technically an act of war has already been commited.
The threats from Chavez, if they provide a declaration that Venezuela intends to use military force, Columbia has the right to pre-empt Venezuela’s attack, in self defense.
The Equador Military found Columbian Rebel bodies, and 3 live rebels, confirming Columbia’s assertion that they used Equador to base attacks from.
41. patriot | March 2nd, 2008 at 10:01 pm
The Colombians have what I would say as the second or third most proficient fighting land force in the Americas.
They have been fighting in a jungle thats the size of Vietnam for half a century, and have an extremely well structured Army command structure and efficient Military Intelligence service.
If Chavez were to attack them, We should IMMEDIATELY send a Carrier Strike group and provide them with Air support (they dont have much of an air force). There would be no need for any of our fighting men to go in. I dont have the slightest doubt that the Colombians could sweep the floor with the Venezuelans.
Lets remember that it was the Colombians who defeated the Spanish empire and first chased them out of our side of the world.
42. Diana Powe | March 2nd, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Almiranta,
Would that be the President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who is currently visiting Iraq and of whom the Iraqi prime minister, Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, said:
43. Juanimador | March 2nd, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Chavez has “helped” with the liberation of 6 hostages. This means he has literally paid the ransom for these people, effectively helping a terrorist group with financial means. Lets not forget also that the total number of hostages is 700+ Just beacuse the 6 liberated are important political figures does not make them any more important than the rest. So at best he has helped 6 families and given the terrorists millions in dollars, and pretty much free range inside venezuelan borders. I think the greater good is at stake here. He needs to sit down and shut up in order to avoid an international conflict with the the only real ally the US have left in South America. The US must help, just a little military back up will do. Don’t forget our army has been in constant fighting for the last 40 years (with the terrorists FARC) so they are ready to go when the time comes. Forgive the spelling mistakes, I am Colombian.
44. Juanimador | March 2nd, 2008 at 10:10 pm
BTW thanks for the vote of confidence Patriot ;)
45. patriot | March 2nd, 2008 at 10:12 pm
@ “Christian Wright”
“Isn’t that what Bush said about Afghanistan and Iraq?”
Have you ever seen the Colombian army in action?
Unlike the countries you mentioned, these soldiers dont turn and run the other way in the middle of combat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7R-Pc0RLWw
46. Kahn | March 2nd, 2008 at 10:17 pm
patriot, CW is the jerk in knee jerk reaction.
47. js | March 2nd, 2008 at 10:20 pm
All they have to do is find collaberation between Venezuela and FARC, and its a casus belli. International law states it is an just war (jus ad bellum).
48. patriot | March 2nd, 2008 at 10:32 pm
@ Kahn
I hope so. Nothing pisses me off more than when people who actually NEED and DESERVE our help and backing get screwed because of people like him.
Lets remember that the Colombians have been staunch allies of ours, in an area of the world where everyone blames us for every single problem. They have a brave commander in chief who is taking the fight directly to the terrorists! something %90 of the countries in the U.N. refuse to do!
If they are willing to send their boys in the battle in our common cause, we should be fully prepared to back them in anyway we can.
49. Soffitrat | March 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Just one carrier task force. This ends. Chavez is insane. So? I don’t see anything wrong with Venezuelan oil. Libs wake up. You won’t let us drill, you won’t let us defend ourselves, you want illegal immiagrants by the millions to depleat what resources we do have. Where does it end? No, don’t answer that. I saw where gasoline was $4.23 in California. They deserve $10.00 per gallon. And all they can do is elect another loser like Hussein Obamabamba. God help us.
50. js | March 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
“Colombia’s government said late Sunday that documents found where Reyes was killed show that the rebel group was in close contact and was deepening relations with Ecuador’s president. ”
MSNBC article.
If Ecuqadors Government is aiding the rebel group, it is an act of war. Columbia is in a joint defense treaty with the USA, so it is out duty to help them.
51. GOP4ME | March 2nd, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Man I love it when the lefty trolls stand up and defend Ahmadinejad and Chavez and Castro.
Their true fascistic tendencies shine so brightly for all the world to see.
52. Soffitrat | March 2nd, 2008 at 11:58 pm
GOP4ME Post 37
Great post!
53. Rob M. | March 3rd, 2008 at 12:15 am
It look’s like Chavez is going to kick some US backed well deserved to kicked columbian butt.
Just because a political side doesn’t bow to the US does not make them Terrorists, Every time the US takes sides in a civil war it labels the other side terrorist a very simple way to demonize them.
Ecuador and Venezuela should invade Columbia and the US has no choice but to stay out it the military is way stretched and the paper Lion can no longer fight, perhaps the people of Columbia will have real leadership instead of the US puppet government they now have.
54. Soffitrat | March 3rd, 2008 at 12:26 am
GOP4ME Post 51.
Another great post. You are right on. Other posters should read your comments and learn.
55. ibague | March 3rd, 2008 at 1:40 am
Rob M… shut up,
Did you saw our march against the farc where millions of us said all over the world “we don-t support farc, they don-t represent us”..
I don-t fully agree with the uribe government but the fact is… Colombia fully support him in that area. We want the Farc finished. They are a narco-terrorist group.
Monkey Chavez is just hiding his fails in venezuela, in that circus acts of war against Colombia.
People of Latin America, U.S and all over the world, support us, the colombian people. We want stability in our country after years of internal conflict and of course the dreamed LA union, but someone really believes peace and union is in the hand of a dangerous Farc/Chavez ally?
56. Magnum Serpentine | March 3rd, 2008 at 2:09 am
So please tell me again, Why did colombia invade Ecuador?
57. A Concerned Colombian | March 3rd, 2008 at 4:32 am
@Rob M.
Thank you for telling us how much you DON’T know about the FARC. You ever heard “It’s better to remain quiet and be taken for a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt”? Yeah, that’s you.
If you knew anything about the conflict you’d know:
-The FARC are cold-blooded killers. Remember recently the execution of 11 deputies, who had been kidnapped for 5 years, when the rebels thought a military rescue operation was in progress? FYI, there was no rescue going on.
-The FARC make their money from the kidnapping of civilians, soldiers and politicians (which they defend as a valid military tactic) and from drug trafficking.
-They are on the US and EU’s list of terrorist organizations (and with reason).
I could go on and on about kidnapping airplanes and setting off bombs but, why bother? If you really knew anything about this, you’d know it’s not a matter of “the opposing side being labeled a terrorist.” The opposing side (the FARC) IS a terrorist. The ignorance of your post leads me to believe you’re either naive (and stupid for speaking about something you know nothing about), a puppet of Chavez, or a guerrilla narco-terrorist yourself. Which is it?
General comment:
It is well known Chavez is closely affiliated with the FARC. He’s done everything but publicly announce his support for them. His actions, more than showing a support for Ecuador, are a support for the FARC. Chavez has nothing to do with the Ecuador-Colombia conflict. His actions stem from 1. supporting the FARC and 2. Diverting attention from Venezuela’s internal problems. He claims the US is dividing the Latin American countries. Funny thing is, I think he’s causing more damage to Latin American unity than anyone ever has.
As for Ecuador, there have been numerous reports of rebels setting-up camp in Ecuador and that the Ecuadorean military knows this (some reports come from people who were kidnapped and spent time at these camps). Furthermore, the camp that was attacked seems to be a long-standing camp, rather than a makeshift one. If Ecuador protects its borders against ALL intruders, as it claims, then how can this be? Either the rebels are craftier than everyone thought or Ecuador is knowingly harboring terrorists. The new documents found linking the FARC with the Ecuadorean government certainly doesn’t bode well for Ecuador.
The US-Mexico-Canada analogy is a correct one.
Should Venezuela attack (which I don’t think Chavez is stupid enough to do), I sincerely hope the US backs Colombia. Chavez may be a pest (as some poster mentioned…) but it would be a grave mistake to ignore him and only deal with him when he’s grown into a real problem…and can’t be swatted as easily.
@Magnum
Colombia didn’t invade Ecuador, per se. Guerrillas crossed the border to seek refuge from the Colombian military (as they usually do: kill in Colombia, escape to Ecuador. Though Ecuador maintains it keeps tight border security). The Colombian army attacked from Colombia’s side of the border. They only crossed the border to retrieve the bodies as it is customary for the guerillas to carry off their dead in order to prevent confirmation of an important kill.
Did Colombia cross into Ecuador and thus “invade” it? Yes.
Was there any hostile action on Ecuadorean territory or against Ecuador itself? No.
Now, for all the noise Ecuador is making, the recovered documents linking FARC with the Ecuadorean government are turning out to be quite embarrassing. After years of denying harboring terrorists they’re being shown for the hypocrites they are.
58. A Concerned Colombian | March 3rd, 2008 at 5:07 am
Just to clarify, I have nothing against Venezuela. Colombia and Venezuela have a long history of brotherhood. It is very unfortunate that an eccentric whack-job has now taken the reins of Venezuela and has decided to turn brother against brother. I just hope for a speedy, hopefully non-violent, removal of Chavez from power before he causes irreparable damage to Venezuela-Latin American relations.
59. phnx | March 3rd, 2008 at 6:42 am
FARC, which leftist journalist try to portray as a “peasant army”, originally started out as a movement for liberation by Communist intellectuals from Bogota. Over 40 years it has morphed into a gang of thieves and badits who are financing their operations through cocaine, and kidnapping. They routinely operate in the areas of Colombia which border Ecuador and Venezuela. With the tacit unofficial approval of the governments of Ecuador and Venezuela they maintain safe havens just across the border in each country. Their objective is to set up an autonomous zone within Colombia where they would be free to grwo and process cocaine. The leftist governments of Venzuela and Ecuador support this as the know that the drugs are exported to the US and result in the destruction of segements of our society.
Congratulations to our leftist trolls for supporting these blood suckers. Usefull idiots again.
60. plainjane | March 3rd, 2008 at 9:00 am
58. A Concerned Colombian | March 3rd, 2008 at 5:07 am
Well said. If the last election is any indication it appears the Venezuelan people are beginning to take the right steps. But this will take time and patience.
The neocons who rant here would prefer the U.S military just level Bogotá and Caracas one afternoon and then state can’t we all just get along. In their eyes this approach worked so well for them in Iraq’s civil war. And should you reject this approach in favor of diplomacy be forewarned you will be labeled a coward, traitor and terrorist lover. But that is ok because 1/20/09 looms over their heads.
61. js | March 3rd, 2008 at 9:09 am
My friend just got back from Columbia visiting his family. He said most of the people there think Chavez is crazy.
I think Chavez will instigate a war as a grasp for power. It will give him the excuse to miltarize Venezuela, and then he can overturn elections.
62. phnx | March 3rd, 2008 at 9:13 am
“The neocons who rant here would prefer the U.S military just level Bogotá and Caracas one afternoon and then state can’t we all just get along.” PJane
???!!!???
Jane we aren’t infavor of bombing our allies. That brilliant strategy was espoused by your hero Barak as he opined on his plans for Pakistan.
BTW: It would be nice to have an occassional coherent post from you.
63. Eric T | March 3rd, 2008 at 11:12 am
Plainjane-
You said Chavez is nothing more than a pest. When he vows to crush American imperialism. I’d think you got to take that serious, when I mentioned terrorism, you said Boo!, Fearmongering Is not what I’m trying to do.
This guy laid out a real threat. Will he do what Al Qaida did? Maybe his plans are much different.
Economic terrorism may be how Chavez tries to crush American Imperialism. He is stirring up some conflict so him and his OPEC buddies can drive up the crude prices to the point that our economy folds. Check out how Nigeria and these guys start blowing up pipelines and attacking oil workers to keep the prices real high. They will start wars and kill people to prop up these prices.
Diesel fuel is at about $4.00 a gallon, when our delivery trucks (that get about 5 mpg) have to roll that inflation into their cost, the price of everything goes up. Chavez and his OPEC pals, can also take this money that we give them and come right back over here and buy up businesses and land. “It is like we are paying them to buy up our country.” The GOP candidates like Huckabee and Romney had some good energy Independance plans.
Energy Independence or tariffs and economic pressure on Chavez may be a good idea.
64. plainjane | March 3rd, 2008 at 11:34 am
63. Eric T | March 3rd, 2008 at 11:12 am
So this is the plan, in the upcoming election Republicans will not take responsibility for the actions they put in motion and blame rising gasoline prices simply on terrorist. Instability in the world does cause some rise in prices, but before we go out on a limb and believe all this is due to Bin Laden and the like, explain how it is gasoline reserves are at a 14 year high yet prices rise? If the oil industry is in such dire straights how is it Exxon just recorded the highest quarterly profit ever recorded by a U.S. company?
Until Chaney divulges what was discussed between the administration and the oil executives at the start of Bush’s first term, the American people are not buying your Limbaugh-Hannity snake oil.
65. Eric T | March 3rd, 2008 at 1:21 pm
The American people have pension funds, 401k and retirement plans with big oil company stocks. Everybody, even you, may own shares of Exxon, Chevron and many other corporations. They are publicly owned companies.
Obama’s tells you he is going to sit down and have tea with Chavez and Iran, everything will be OK, then they can help Obama nationlize our health care, oil and turn our countries free enterprise system upside down.
You look at Citgo oil company. It is a state run company, no public stock, all the money goes to Chavez. Even if you want, You can’t be part of the action. With Our companies you can get in and share in the profits if you want.
Which system is better, state run? only government can be a part of the profits, or our system, where everybody who wants, can share in the profits?
Freedom is important, Huckabee is the best choice for economic policies. McCain is real big government and for more government regulations, he was just up here in Detroit pushing for tougher CAFE standards ect…
But to go to the extreme with Obama or Hillary is letting government run business instead of letting business run business. If you don’t like freedom and you’d rather see everything state run. With government in control of everything. You can count on having individual freedom reduced like in Iran or with Chavez. Soon posting on blogs like this with opionions differing from government officials will be a crime.
66. Joe | March 3rd, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Eric T: Obama’s tells you he is going to sit down and have tea with Chavez and Iran, everything will be OK, then they can help Obama nationlize our health care, oil and turn our countries free enterprise system upside down.
That is pretty funny Eric.
Why are you and the entire set of Bush-followers so against actually talking to enemies? I mean, for cryin’ out loud, there was a thread here a week or so ago pissed taht Obama would even consider talking to Cuba! Good Lord…. you get things done by talking to the enemy, not by force.
Regarding Venezuela dn Iran “helping” to do all that stuff, don’t be ridiculous. They couldn’t and they aren’t going to help us do squat.
That would be the “fearmongering” that the entire GOP does and apparently you fell for it.
“Don’t elect a Dem, the USA will become a big fat Communist nation!!”
Give me a break.
67. phnx | March 3rd, 2008 at 1:43 pm
When reading Plainjane’s posts is anyone else tempted to begin their reply with the SNL Point Counter Point response of Dan Akroyd to Jane Curtin?:
“Jane you ign****t s**t…”
68. Jim | March 3rd, 2008 at 1:45 pm
If I were President of the US, I would share intelligence with Colombia and do nothing until Chavez’s troops crossed the border. Then I would let the Columbians have at them and if they requested our help, then I would authorize 2 strikes: 1. Hit the invading troops with just enough to get them back on their turf, and 2. Strike Chavez personally. End of conflict, victory for the free world, and message to the axis of evil.
69. Joe | March 3rd, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Jim, Thanks for proving that you have no interest what-so-ever with actually TALKING with the opposition.
Let’s just bomb the crap out of them!
70. Magnum Serpentine | March 3rd, 2008 at 2:19 pm
I do not believe any nation has a right to attack another nation. Thats why we have Diplomats.
Looks like Colombia is about to start a bloody war in South America. Look for the Chinese to come in if the United States gets involved.
71. Eric T | March 3rd, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Joe
We let Chavez and the guy from Iran come over here and share their views at a UN meeting last year. Chavez used the chance to talk, to call Bush “Lucifer” and grandstand and act like a jack ass. Why do we need to sit down and talk with this fool.
72. Joe | March 3rd, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Yep… hey went to the U.N. and called Bush “Lucifer”. That is correct. So what? So because of that you don’t think that someone should try negotiating in order to stop a war? Because he called Bush a name, that means we shouldn’t do what we can to stop a possible war? Are you kidding me?
Diplomatic relations is not just talking to friends. It is making difficult talks with those of opposing views as well.
It should be in EVERYONE’s best interest to talk and negotiate BEFORE bombing.
Damn Eric… this is not all us against them. A war starts down there and don’t you think that would impact us? Good grief.
We should be able to sit down with any party to discuss what is needed to AVOID a fight. Not say we will bomb the crap out of them because he called our dear leader a name!
73. phnx | March 3rd, 2008 at 2:40 pm
“Looks like Colombia is about to start a bloody war in South America.” MS
After listening to Chavez’s theats against Colombia, only a dyed in the wool leftist can come to the conclusion that Colombia is about to start a bloody war.
“Look for the Chinese to come in if the United States gets involved.” MS
And they are going to project their power how?
74. Joe | March 3rd, 2008 at 2:47 pm
phnx,
are you LOOKING for a war to get started?
Only a “dyed in the wook” rightist would be itching to have a war started down there!
Still nobody has said why you are so against negotiating with a country that is opposed to your view.
75. A Concerned Colombian | March 3rd, 2008 at 3:16 pm
@Magnum.
Did you even read what I wrote? Colombia isn’t going to start anything. Colombia DIDN’T attack Ecuador or Ecaudorean forces. They attacked FARC terrorists. If anyone is starting a bloody war, it’s Chavez and his warmongering (he was the one who first moved troops to his border without provocation).
And, just so you know, as of this writing, Colombia has refused to move troops to the border to counteract the movements made by Ecuador and Venezuela. If there’s anyone looking to start a war, you should consider pointing the finger and the countries with armies poised at their borders.
I’m going to simply assume you misread my earlier post instead of thinking you’re that dense.
And if anyone doubted Chavez’s true reasons to have a beef with Colombia (hint, it’s not about supporting Ecuador…), here’s fresh off the wire:
http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/03/colombia-says-chavez-gave-farc-300-million/
76. Joe | March 3rd, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Concerned,
I can’t speak for Columbia, Venzuela or any poster on this site.
I can tell you that my beef is with the clowns on this site that feel we must bomb Venezuela before we try to negotiate something to avoid any fighting at all.
77. A Concerned Colombian | March 3rd, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Joe,
I agree, war should be a last recourse. I certainly don’t want to see my nation warring two neighboring countries while terrorists tear it up from the inside out. Should war erupt, though, I do sincerely hope the US backs Colombia. Fortunately, I don’t think anything will come of this situation and it’ll simply defuse…but not before some serious answers are given by Chavez and Correa (Ecuador’s president).
78. Diana Powe | March 3rd, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Well, there’s nothing like a possibility of some military combat happening at a safe distance to get commenters here all typing like mad. Beats playing Risk anytime.
79. Eric T | March 3rd, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Joe-
I’m not saying start bombing anybody.
Maybe start by throwin Citgo out of here first.
80. Joe | March 3rd, 2008 at 5:41 pm
That is fine, but you still lobbed this out there…
“Why do we need to sit down and talk with this fool.”
Talk with this fool is what SHOULD be done. Righties on this site don’t seem to think we should ever talk with an enemy.
81. js | March 3rd, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Citgo can take a hike. If Chavez starts a war, we will unilaterally confiscate all of Venezuela’s possessions in the USA in the interest of national security.
If his troops cross into Columbia, I would anticipate an Air Campain like Iraq never saw. The People of Venezuela will pay for thier elected official, because we will bomb them into the stone age.
This is a casus belli, a cause of war and is considered a just war under international law;
“Evidence found in computers seized in a raid over the weekend suggests that Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez recently gave the leftist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) $300 million, Colombia’s national police chief said Monday.
Speaking at a news conference, Gen. Oscar Naranjo also said evidence in the computers suggests FARC had given Chavez 100 million pesos when he was a jailed rebel leader.”
(RE: CNN above)
82. JoeG | March 3rd, 2008 at 10:30 pm
President Bush and the Republican party will not let this proto-communist dictator attack Colombia, its democratic neighbor, which happens to be our main ally in the region. And all the talk about the American military being overstretched is overdone. The US would only need to send down a couple of air craft carriers and cruisers into the Caribbean and wipe out the Venezuelan war infrastructure without a single American setting foot on South America. The Colombian army is probably second only to the Marines as far as being battle tested and tough as nails, so they could do the work on the ground. Chavez better tread carefully or he’ll end up like Mussolini.
83. phnx | March 3rd, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Joe, Your are daft, there is nothing in my posts which suggest we should bomb Venezuela. However I would support US military intervention if Colombia is attacked by either Ecuador or Venezuela. Maybe you should get your head out of your arse and see who is threatening war and who is not. Colombia seems to be acting responsibly to defuse the situation, not so your friend and leftist soulmate Chavez.
Too bad you can’t speak spanish so you could monitor the news media in Colombia and Venezuela to get an unfiltered sense of what is going on down there. If you did you would know that the leftist controlled media in the US is not reporting the true nature of the threats that Chavez is hurling daily at Colombia and the Uribe government.
84. Kurt Diekelman | March 4th, 2008 at 2:20 am
There is no reason why Chavez should be angry onver the narco-terrorist FARC member being killed. FARC has killed 30,000 Colombians. Prehaps President Uribe should send a bunch of assassins into Venezuela and kill 30,000 of Chavez’s cult members and see how he likes it(kidding, of course). For all the lefty fools who think that Chavez is a “man of the people” just remember he is threatening war over the death of a narco-terrorist.
85. to the ignorant | March 4th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
THe only thing that u guys see its your own convinience , it would have been a different story y canada bombed on us territory trying to kill a terrorist , Ignorance makes me sick people dont see the big picture , All Latin America not only venezuela is under going political change , There are now more socialist leaders than never before that post a tread to the US , If all latin america rises againts the US , all their wars have always been over seas. It post a big tread, Ecuador has been backed by Mexico Venezuela Brazil Argentina Cuba Nicaragua It could be the start of world war III , The attack was guided by american satellites , CIA always has a hand on latin american confilts that pose a tread to the united states . What a better way to create a internal conflict and use Uribe (yankee ally) To attack Ecuador and blame Chaves in Help FARC .
NEWS ARE ALWAYS FILTERED MISINFORMATION LEADS TO IGNORANCE