Basic Global Warming Equations Wrong? Between Barack and a Hard Place

What to do About the Israeli-Palestinian War

March 8th, 2008 at 09:07am Mark Noonan

Yesterday I noted the rather intractable nature of the Israeli-Palestinian war and offered that I would be back later to add some thoughts of my own…well, “later” became a lot later, so I’ve decided to open up a new thread. I’ll start from the same source as originated yesterdays post - NRO’s The Corner:

The irrepressible Caroline Glick pens a scathing critique of Secretary of State Condi Rice in this Jerusalem Post op-ed, obviously written before Thursday’s massacre of eight students — including one American — at the rabbinical seminary in Jerusalem (which atrocity — as Jonah and the AP both observed earlier today, has Palestinians dancing for joy). (Those would be the same Palestinians 70 percent of whom, according to Madam Secretary, just want to live in peace with their neighbors — notwithstanding more scientific polling that shows a percentage even higher than that actually wants their neighbor obliterated).

As always, all of Caroline’s column is worth reading, but I thought the most telling part involved the delusion the State Department and the administration refuse to abandon, regardless of the evidence: that the Arafat party, Fatah, and its Arafat protege, Abbas, are “moderates” who represent the solution rather than a big part of the problem…

At times it is a rather unfortunate thing that we are inheritors of the past - usually, the past is an excellent resource for the education and guidance humanity, but sometimes it is the damndest millstone around our neck. As regards the Israeli-Palestinian issue, “millstone” covers it quite nicely. It would be nice if we could go back in time to when British Colonial Secretary Winston Churchill was crafting the “solution” to the Palestinian issue and whisper in his hear the events of the past 80 years…but, we can’t do that. For good or ill, what has been done in the past is irreversable, and we just have to work ’round it. So, the first thing to do: cease and desist all arguments based on the past. Worthless, pointless exercise which, at any event, only serves to inflame passions.

So, ignoring the past, what have we got? Well, we’ve got on one hand a very modern, wealthy, western-style democracy which is also the only sure safe haven for Jewish people in the world. On the other hand, we’ve got a very backwards, impoverished, Islamic tyranny which is used as a pawn in the cynical ploys of Islamists and tyrants who need an external enemy in order to rally people to their cause. On both sides are sets of people who are determined on the destruction of the other - on the face of it, such people on the Israeli side seem a rarity, while to look at MSM reports, those on the Palestinian side who wish Israel’s destruction are nearly universal. This is not a situation amenable to easy solutions. But solved it must be.

In finding a solution, we must be guided by three things: Justice, mercy and a clear eyed understanding of reality. First and foremost to remember: what you see is not, actually, what you get. In the article quoted above, there is a link to a survey indicating that an overwhleming majority of Palestinians wish Israel destroyed. Such a thing is presented in a conservative publication as if we didn’t have a century’s experience in how tyrants can manufacture whatever public opinion they need for the moment. The crowds dancing in the streets and the people of the survey must be understood in the light of the fact that Hamas will come down very hard on you if you don’t dance in the streets and opine that you wish Israel destroyed. Saddam Hussein got 100% of the vote in the 2002 Iraqi election the same way Hamas gets people into the streets to celebrate the murder of Jews in Israel - by dint of a strongly implied threat that failure to perform will result in severe harm up to and including a horrific death. Once the US Army arrived in Baghdad, we got a truer picture of Saddam’s support when Iraqis starting going out of their way to desecrate Saddam’s monuments. Ignore what is put on the TV in front of you - a picture is worth a thousand words, but each of them is a lie.

We must approach both sides with a sense of mercy - for decades now there has been tremendous suffering, and the people of Israel and the Palestinians have a claim upon us for pity and mercy. Some poor Israeli blown to pieces by a suicide bomber; some Joe Average Palestinian blown to pieces because a Hamas bigwig decided to hide behind him - these people are suffering, and they need our mercy. Never forget that there are flesh and blood human beings - our brothers and sisters - over there who are paying with their lives for whatever solution we decide upon.

Now, for justice - certainly one of the more tricky things for a human being to attempt and we should keep in mind from the start that we not only will not, but cannot make everyone happy and feeling like justice was done. But just because it will be imperct and, also, rejected by some does not in any way excuse us from using justice as a centerpiece of our plan.

As we seek justice, the one thing we must not do is try to redress the past - we can’t obtain justice for a Palestinian who’s grandfather lost his property in Tel Aviv by punshing the grandson of the Israelis who first took over the land 60 years ago. We can’t do it - anymore than we can get, say, Tunsia to compensate the descendents of the Jews who were forced out when the State of Israsel came into being. What is done id done - on to new things.

Come what may, the only way to eventually have peace is for the Palestinians to have a State of their own - but it must be a State freed from the corruption and terror of Hamas. Only a genuinely free Palestinian State can ever sign a peace agreement with Iraeli - without Palestinian democracy, there can’t be Israeli-Palestinian peace. Given this - the need for a Palestinian State ruled by a genuinely democratic government - the whole of US policy should be shaped by a desire for Palestinian freedom as a precursor to an Israeli-Palestinian peace. And this, after all is said and done, is what President Bush is trying to do.

I’m sure President Bush knows that PLO leader Abbas is not the best sort of person - and I’ll bet Bush knows even better than us the sort of creepiness Abbas has engaged in, and continues to engage in. But patience is reqiured here - some of that mercy. This is because absent a US/Israeli invasion of the West Bank and Gaza and an indefinite protectorate over it, we simply must work with what we’ve got - and Abbas is the best of a bad lot. We are engaged, in this War on Terrorism, in a grand design - finding out if a judicious application of power and aid will midwife democracy, which will then find it has better things to do with its time than shout “death to Israel” and plot terrorist attacks. We could be wrong about this - but God help us if we are, because if we can’t figure out a way to make a free Palestnian State, then we’re eventually going to have to either kill or exile all of them. I’d like to avoid that.

So, what to do? Be merciful. Be just. Be realistic - and pray mightily that we can pull it off.

Entry Filed under: Foreign Affairs, War on Terror


28 Comments

  • 1. plainjane  |  March 8th, 2008 at 10:19 am

    …This is because absent a US/Israeli invasion of the West Bank and Gaza…March 8th, 2008 at 09:07am Mark Noonan

    Why does the U.S military have to be envolved? Even making suggestive statements like this makes me believe you and Republican neocons are insisting on a course towards Armageddon.

    By no means an expert on Middle East politics, but on the simplest terms you have two groups claiming the same small piece of earth. Solutions; combine West Bank and Gaza back into Israel and have a country similar to 1850 America or 2008 Iraq with two groups contained within common boarders but segregated or make it very clear year after year in the State of Union message the U.S will provide domestic aid and cutting edge military equipment for Israel to defend itself and simply domestic aid to Palestinians. I also think it is time for another nation via the U.N to step up to the plate and take some leadership and establish an Israeli/Palestine court system to help solve disputes so the two sides can live with some semblance of peace. What is wrong with one of the other members of the Security Council, other than one of the Crusade countries taking the assignment?

  • 2. Fredrick Schwartz  |  March 8th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    Do you care to hear what a Jew thinks of all of this?

    Well since I am a Jew I’ll give it to you for the low price of paying attention. This whole post Transjordan in 1922 mess has been the biggest money making scheme in the history or history. Hamas and Hezbollah have made billions exporting their hate. AIPAC has made billions sweating the USA to support Israel “or else.” I don’t have to tell what the “or else” part is, or do I?

    The “or else” varies from place to place. In New York along Park Ave it’s what would wake a Gentile hedge fund manager from a sated dead sleep. For a Gentile studio exec in LA it’s what makes him sit staring into the distance at a green light on Rodeo Drive while horns blow and people scream at him. It’s what causes ulcers in the evangelical guts of the Bush administration senior staff. But it’s all the same “or else” really.

    The funny thing is cousins of mine who go to clubs in Tel-Aviv who are at a glance center right in their politics, ahh the freedom of youth, would actually like to see the two nations co exist and the bombing and four hour clean ups come to an end. The problem becomes convincing the common Palestinian and the average member of the Knesset that this is in their mutual best interest.

    That joining of the two groups that do hate each other and no hate is not too strong a word, is the nut that has to be cracked if there is ever to be anything like coexistence. There will never be peace. Every blind man knows that the land was taken from the Palestinians. But Christian America still suffering from the stress of religion, guilt for not coming to the aid of the Jews during WW 2 and the clear statement of Biblical fact the Israelites are the Chosen People HAVE to support the nation of Israel. It’s really an ugly box America has painted itself into because some of what the IDF does these days is downright brutish. But what can you do when your choices are fighting or being driven into the Mediterranean?

    Jerusalem? Divide it like Berlin, Russian Zone, Iranian Zone, NATO Zone and make it the capital of Palestine. Put enough guns in there to make it not worth it for anyone to do anything stupid and maybe in 50 years the checkpoints will go away.

  • 3. Canadian Observer  |  March 8th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    2. Fredrick Schwartz | March 8th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    Interesting and informative observations. Thank you for taking the time to post them.

  • 4. js  |  March 8th, 2008 at 11:32 am

    So what real Jew rejects the truth? Before any arabs squatted in Israel, it was all Jewish land. Most Israeli’s understand with out reservation that there is no such people as “palestinians, yet you, who claim to be Jew, try to uphold some illusion that the land belongs to them.

    Suffice to say, you certainly are wrong. If I stole your car, and drove it for 14 years, does that give me rightful title to your car? Neither does Arabs stealing Juda make it rightfully thiers.

    Jews have maintained the culture and a language in Israel spanning 3500 years.

    The arabs never even had a capitol city in the region.

    It comes down to one thing. Is your homeland, the land of your fathers father, and his, for thousands of years, worth fighting for? According to millions of Jews today, it is. Thats why this blog exists.

  • 5. Christian Wright  |  March 8th, 2008 at 11:36 am

    I see how the Israel / Palestinian parallels the The Troubles in Ireland.

    The UK dominated Ireland for over 700 years.
    The English took Irish land, Irish women, forbid them to speak their own language, slaughtered them by the thousands, let them die in the 1870’s during The Starvation.

    The Irish did not have the military the English had, so they used the only weapons and tactics they had to fight for freedom.

    When I read about how Israel will destroy entire city blocks to kill one person, I get sick.

    I hate the murder of civilians during any conflict, and I think the people of Palestine need to take the higher ground and only concentrate on military targets.

    What they are doing now is wrong.

  • 6. Fredrick Schwartz  |  March 8th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    js,

    I wonder if you’d say that same thing if your Christian Holyland was in the rainforest of the Amazon? I would foght for my father’s homeland because that’s a place I know, Brooklyn. You support Israel for the reasons I pointed to because it gives you a religious warm fuzzy. It’s about your salvation because you need Isarel for that to happen. Don’t pretend some love for the Israeli people, I don’t I love my relatives and I think the lot of the Likud politicians and bombing Arabs are off their rockers.

    This is a money pit that America keeps shoveling into because they know what “or else” means. Go to the AIPAC web site sometime. Even better go to the Likud party website sometime.

    Your truth and my truth are different things my friend.

  • 7. js  |  March 8th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    6. Fredrick Schwartz

    My Homeland is America Fred. America belongs to the Indians, white men stole it from them. That doesnt mean the white men can own the earth, like my ancestors believed, but even they know it is still thier home.

    I dont pretend anything. Knowing right from wrong is as simple as knowing up from down. I see your failure to expound on facts, instead of purported principalities (and your hatred of the truth), is a strong indication that you are probably an anti zionist/neturei karta with a political axe to grind anyways (the blind following the blind more or less).

    What you call the money pit is not a pit at all. A significant reminder of that can be found in NY Harbor. Its called the Statue of Liberty. A concept America’s Indians have understood for ages before they met the whites.

    You cant defend the slavery that is Islam and stand up claiming to be an Orthodox Jew. For centuries, Jews have tolerated submission and slavery at the hands of the Arab/Muslims. Only the weak call for its return.

  • 8. congressive  |  March 8th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    js,

    Under your logic, every white American should willingly give up their property in Oklahoma, for example, to any Pawhuska who claims it. There are even court documents showing clear title before the big land grab.

    I am confused a bit by this. Is 14 years not enough, yet 140 years is enough, to transfer title? How about 1400 years?

    The Statue of Liberty/America’s Indians reference makes no sense to me at all. Could yo flesh that one out?

  • 9. FmrMarine  |  March 8th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    FS

    Here is the thoughts of another “JEW” who totally disagrees with you.

    open the page scroll down to the bottom and read the book - BIG LIES….you can download it in PDF form.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Default.aspx

  • 10. Mark Noonan  |  March 8th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    plain,

    What is a “crusade country”?

  • 11. Mark Noonan  |  March 8th, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    Schwartz,

    Being a Jew is supposed to give you some sort of special insight here? Sorry, but I prefer to deal with people as people - your insights will be good or bad based upon how well they conform to mercy, justice and reality. You gain no points here merely for being a Jew and American who says condemnatory things about the US and Israel vis a vis the war with the Palestinians. Anyone can do that - usually, it is done as an attempt to appear even handed, as if in any conflict both sides have an equally good case.

    As I stated in my commentary, I don’t find any worth at this juncture in going over the past and trying to figure out who “wins” the debate - suffice it to say that we are where we are. Lets take January 1st, 2008 as our starting point - all prior to that is entirely forgiven and makes no matter.

    Ok - so, since January 1st it has been Hamas and other Palestinian groups who have deliberately targeted unarmed civilians for death. Since January 1st, the Israelis have utterly failed to do this. Judgement - Israel has the stronger case and thus the stronger claim on our sympathy. In deliberately targeting unarmed civilians, Palestinian groups have put themselves in the wrong and thus forced us to address their claims in light of their manifest error.

    This does not mean, however, that the Palestinians have no claim upon us - they are our brothers and sisters and thus they will always have a claim on us. It is just that in any proposed solution, it is the wrongdoer who must give way on matters of intractable dispute.

    Here is what is not disputed by anyone with any sense at all:

    1. There must be an end to terrorist attacks.

    2. There must be a Palestinian State.

    3. Israel must have a secure borders.

    4. Israel must respect the borders of the Palestinian State.

    5. The Palestinians will require a great deal of foreign aid in order to get themselves on their feet.

    I think that this would be about it - everything else is under dispute. Given the situation (ie, there is a war but the Palestinians have placed themselves in the wrong), any thing under dispute must be resolved in favor of the Isrealis - but any such resolution must take into consideration the just claims of the Palestinians which must be met in so far as they do not conflict with Israel emerging from the current conflict with the justifiable upper hand over those who placed themselves in the wrong.

    I’m not going to go through the whole list of disputes, but I think the status of Jerusalem will serve as an excellent example for all:

    Ignoring, for the sake of argument, Judaism’s clear and ancient claim to Jersusalem as the capitol of the State of Israel, we proceed from the point that, at present, Israel is in full control of the entirety of Jerusalem less the Temple Mount, which has been de-facto ceded to the Palestianians. Any change in the status quo would require Israeli concessions - which might be forthcoming, but must not in any way reward the Palestinians for their wrongdoing, nor in any way jeopardise the safety and liberty of the Israeli population of Jerusalem.

    So, in any proposed solution to the Israeli-Palestinian war, Jerusalem will remain the undivided capitol of the State of Israel, but special considerations may be made to the religious feelings of Moslem Palestinians especially as regards anything which might be seen as a desecration of a Moslem holy place. But, along these lines, any proposed resolution of the war which concedes Moslem control of all Moslem holy sites will also require that Christians and Jews be given undisputed control of all Christian and Jewish holy sites within the borders of the new Palestinian State - this is especially important as there is a history of Palestinian Moslems deliberately and the malice aforethought desecrating Jewish and Christian holy sites under their control.

    None of this is easy - and the solution will have to be imposed; imposed because I cannot imagine a set of circumstances where Hamas and other such groups will agree to it…additionally, as there can be no peace with anything other than a fully democratic Palestine, groups like Hamas which use violence and intimidation to maintain control must be destroyed and forbidden any part in a post-war Palestine.

  • 12. Almiranta  |  March 8th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    Fred makes two assertions: “You support Israel for the reasons I pointed to because it gives you a religious warm fuzzy.” And: ” It’s about your salvation because you need Isarel for that to happen.”
    ??????????????????????/

    I, for example, support Israel for neither of the two assumptions made by Fred. It has nothing to do with a “religious warm fuzzy” (whatever the hell that is…) and it has nothing whatsoever to do with my “salvation”.

    I support Israel because I support the rights of people to live free from the constant threat of butchery by savages.

    Savages? That’s a pretty harsh term, isn’t it? So let’s take a look at who, exactly, I might be talking about. It’s people who rear their children to be instruments of death, sending them out to inflict as much death and destruction as possible on civilians, and teaching them that such savagery —there is no better term—meets the requirements of their religion for salvation. It is a populace which promises peace if only certain concessions are made, certain territories handed over, only to continue the bloodshed unabated. It is a people which floods into recently conceded territories, which were left with homes and businesses and factories intact, and which immediately destroys them instead of using them for productive purposes. It is a group of people whose only technological advancements in the past century have been in the development of various ways to destroy life, and whose culture has moved backward over the past century or two.

    Savages. Not “animals” because animals don’t kill for fun. Savages. And Israel has the right to exist, to prosper, without constant threat of annihilation by them.

    So take your psuedo-analytical posturing and shove it, Fred.

    congressive, no one but you could possibly leap to such a bizarre conclusion and then claim it is a logical extension of what a reasonable and rational person said.

  • 13. Almiranta  |  March 8th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    CW, you say “When I read about how Israel will destroy entire city blocks to kill one person, I get sick.”

    Would it help to learn that what you read is not true? Because it isn’t. Never has been, never will be. Most of the world knows that there is a huge amount of anti-Israeli propaganda out there—you seem to be a little behind the times. You really need to get out more—out from behind the rabid Lib propaganda machine, that is.

    Remember the shots of clouds of black smoke over Lebanon? Faked. Remember the shots of the guys carrying ‘dead’ children? Faked. One guy, posed in shot after shot, no proof that the bodies eh was carrying were really dead or wounded. Just the word of the “journalist”—the same one who set up the shots.

    Remember the stories of homes and hospitals being bombed? Fake. Remember the stories of terrorists purposely hiding in apartment buildings, behind the skirts of women and the cradles of babies, to avoid retribution? Neither do I, because the Agenda Media and Lefty press never talk about that. Remember the stories about women purposely risking the lives of their children to hide terrorists—and sometimes losing that bet? I doubt it, as those stories are never in the Agenda Media, or the Leftist propaganda press.

    Silly boy.

  • 14. Christian Wright  |  March 8th, 2008 at 9:42 pm

    Almiranta:

    My friend goes to Israel once a year as part of his annual Jewish pilgrimage. He tells me differently.
    Not long ago I read an article about Israeli soldiers disobeying direct orders because they know to obey will cost innocent lives. They are risking their freedom by refusing to participate in crimes against humanity.

  • 15. js  |  March 8th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    8. congressive | March 8th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
    js,
    Under your logic, every white American should willingly give up their property in Oklahoma, for example, to any Pawhuska who claims it. There are even court documents showing clear title before the big land grab.

    ———————

    Reality is that the indians concept of the earth is that only the great spirit can own it. Men die, the earth lives on. Men cannot own the earth, it is nothing more than an illusion.

    Prior to another broken promise in 1907, the US Government designated Oklahoma as Indian territory. Nobody ever bought Oklahoma from the Indians, they found oil there, so they took it away. Thats not justice, just another broken treaty.

    Yes, I would back the rights of the Indian nations right to thier property, just as I back the rights of the Jews. White men made many promises to the Indians, and the only one they kept was that they were going to take thier land. The last tribe that committed to war against the US, the Nez Perce, lost thier land because US agents underhandedly dealt with drunk indians that didnt have the right to sell Indian Lands to the Whites. That didnt give White Men Just Title, just like the Arabs do not have Just Title in Israel.

    The Statue of Liberty is a symbol of Charity and Freedom. Thats what the Indians showed the whites when they arrived, right up until they were slaughtered for thier homelands.

  • 16. clark smith  |  March 9th, 2008 at 12:56 am

    It would be nice if we could go back in time to when British Colonial Secretary Winston Churchill was crafting the “solution” to the Palestinian issue and whisper in his hear the events of the past 80 years

    Fine, then. What should Churchill have said to the Jews?

    [T]he people of Israel and the Palestinians have a claim upon us for pity and mercy.

    The people of Israel have a greater claim upon us for pity and mercy. Israel simply wants to right to exist; Palestinian culture, conversely, is steeped in the destruction of Israel as an article of faith, and their chief and unifying raison d’être.

    Pity and mercy is what Israel gives to the Palestinians every day. Israel could wipe the Palestinians out, but they don’t, even though the Palestinians—sure as the day—would wipe Israel out if the circumstances were reversed. No, every Palestinian that draws breath is witness to the pity and mercy of an Israel that time and time again stays its hand against its pitiless, merciless enemies.

    Come what may, the only way to eventually have peace is for the Palestinians to have a State of their own

    That’s like saying ‘the only way to eventually have peace is for al Queda to have a State of their own.’

    This is why I find it so obscene for America to tell Israel that they must take an asp to their bosom, when America’s way of dealing with terrorist attack is to deny such terrorists a working state anywhere in the world. The day we allow al Queda a safe, secure, sovereign terror state on our border, is they day we may ask Israel to allow Palestinians a safe, secure, sovereign terror state on theirs.

    Quibble with the analogy if you like, but none can credibly refute the fact that the similarities between al Queda and the Palestinians are far greater than their differences. Both are steeped to their core in terrorist jihad. Both have earned a terrorist’s wages. The latter of the two, however, has largely escaped the just desserts due to terrorists.

    The main (and crucial) difference between al Queda and the Palestinians is that the Palestinians come equipped with a ready-made human shield, which generally makes target acquisition and liquidation far more problematic than when dealing with al Queda. Whereas the United States can adopt a more robust policy of reducing al Queda’s ability to wage terror jihad, Israel must limit itself to the extreme constraint of surgical strikes against occasional targets of opportunity. Faced with such constraints, Israel is unable to debilitate the terror society that stalks it.

    Now back again to the question regarding “the only way to … have peace.” If thousands of years of history are any indication, the only way peace will be obtained is if either Jews or Palestinians are no more. Palestinian Jew-hatred is congenital in Palestinian culture; they will kill Jews as long as they have breath. Jews—for their part—aren’t going to butchered into extinction without a fight, so they’ll dish out in reprisals as vigorous as the Pali’ terror attacks they receive.

    It will, at the very least, take generations of focused, unremitting, and painstaking labor within Palestinian culture itself to bring its long-since-innate hatred of Jews under any significant control. Palestinians will have to make war within—and amongst—themselves, before they will have any bent to stop making war against the Jews they have hated since ancient days.

    The question is whether Palestinian culture has the slightest interest in undergoing what would be a strenuous and intergenerational campaign to purge the pathological hatred of Jews from the very veins and fibers of its being. Past and present trends in Palestinian history show no interest in making nice—let alone making peace—with the nation of Israel or with the Jewish people.

  • 17. Almiranta  |  March 9th, 2008 at 1:57 am

    Thank you, clark. That was an exellent post.

    CW, a person told you something he may or may not believe, himself. The thing is, you and your radical zealots are always telling us things you probably—though not necessarily—believe to be true, when they are not.

    Isolated incidents, such as the one in the article you reference, do not prove anything. The orders may have been issued without the full information available to the soldiers. The situation may have changed between the issuance of the orders and the soldiers’ ability to carry them out. There are many alternatives to the one you evidently prefer, which is that officials callously and cold-bloodedly decided to kill off a bunch of innocent people, only to be thwarted by some noble soldiers.

    And a lot of “articles” have been written which are total fabrications.

    I remember an incident right here in the United States when a decorated Viet Nam veteran testified, under oath, to the United States Congress, not only about horrible atrocities committed routinely (”daily”) in Viet Nam, actually witnessed by this veteran, but even about committing some of these atrocities himself—and guess what? It was all a lie, fabricated for personal and polticial reasons by said veteran.

    It happens. And it’s a lot easier to write “an article” than to be taped giving sworn testimony. The NYT alone can give you several examples of frauds perpetrated as actual news stories.

  • 18. Freedom1  |  March 9th, 2008 at 6:38 am

    16. Clark Smith | March 9th, 2008 at 12:56 am

    Outstanding post, Clark Smith. Simply outstanding.

    “…without Palestinian democracy, there can’t be Israeli-Palestinian peace.”

    The Palestinians had a DEMOCRATIC ELECTION and the majority of the Palestinians freely voted for the HAMAS TERRORISTS to rule over them! So much for peace.

    “…free Palestinian State can ever sign a peace agreement with Iraeli…”

    The majority Muslim Palestinians signing a “peace agreement” with the Jews of Israel? A hudna at best. False peace. What part of Islam’s teachings of hatred and murder of Jews as well as Islam’s teachings that Muslims will commit genocide against the Jews to bring about the Islamic Day of Judgement don’t you understand? A 2-state “solution” is insane.

    ” And this, after all is said and done, is what President Bush is trying to do.”

    America will be very, very lucky if we don’t suffer God’s wrath for what President Bush and Rice are trying to do to Israel. They are pushing Israel to divide Jerusalem and commit suicide. It’s un-Biblical and downright stupid.

    Anyone who is interested in reading what Jews (especially Jews who live in Israel) think about the Israeli-Palestinian war can go to Lgf:

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/

    The best solution to the Israeli-”Palestinian” war is to transfer the “Palestinians” to other Islamic countries, as far away from the Jews of Israel as possible -ie. Jordan and Egypt.

    However, that’s not likely to happen. What’s likely to happen is Islamic terrorism against Israel, more Islamic terrorism against Israel and still more Islamic terrorism against Israel until perhaps, Iran gets a nuclear weapon. Then things will get really bloody. Iran’s leaders want nothing more than to nuke Israel in the belief that that will hasten the arrival of the 12th Imam aka the “Hidden Imam” aka the “Mahdi”. Iran’s leaders would think nothing of sacrificing the entire Iranian population to Israel’s retaliation if it meant hastening the Mahdi’s return. Islam is a Satanic death cult. Islam is evil and nothing good can come from evil. Islam must be destroyed. But, that will probably only happen at Armaggedon by Jesus Christ Himself.

  • 19. js  |  March 9th, 2008 at 8:02 am

    18. Freedom1
    “The best solution to the Israeli-”Palestinian” war is to transfer the “Palestinians” to other Islamic countries, as far away from the Jews of Israel as possible -ie. Jordan and Egypt. ”

    Its not the best solution.

    Its the only solution.

  • 20. FmrMarine  |  March 9th, 2008 at 11:45 am

    JS

    100% right on the money.
    However it will never happen. The cult of islam wants jihad war with the Jews and Christian’s.
    islam is the ANTI-Christ. and will be supported be the marxists.

  • 21. js  |  March 9th, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    20. FmrMarine

    Your are right you know. The Jews have hope and charity. Thats why.

    http://www.jobberonline.biz/Prophecy.html

  • 22. Dennis  |  March 10th, 2008 at 12:17 am

    Fmr marine says: “islam is the ANTI-Christ. and will be supported be the marxists.”

    Funny thing about that. The nascent state of Israel was armed by the Soviet Union and Chzechoslovakia.

    The Zionist ideologues who founded Israel were themselves socialists and Marxists - secularists to the core.

  • 23. Dennis  |  March 10th, 2008 at 12:51 am

    FmrMarine, David Ben Gurion, Israel’s founder, was a Marxist Zionist Party member and considered himself a Bolshevik. He was in favour of the “dictatorship of the proletariat” in all countries except Palestine, where he favoured the dictatorship of Zionism. Ben Gurion considered Jewish national interests superior to class interests in Palestine - a clear case of National Socialist leanings.

    When the Marxist Zionist party split up, Ben Gurion became the leader of the Social Democrat wing and was influential in Zionism for years to come. The Jewish colonization of Palestine took place in the name of Socialism. After 1967 however, the religious influence on Israel’s politics grew stronger. By now in Israel religion and politics have merged.

    Js - as for “hope and charity”, classic Judaism’s laws and customs - for example “compassion towards others” - extends to Jews only. Murder or manslaughter is judged mildly when the perpetrator is Jewish and the victim a non-Jew. It is generally accepted for a Jew to kill a non-Jew if he is laying claim to “eternal Jewish land,” and to the present day punishment of such crimes in Israel is mild.

  • 24. Freedom1  |  March 10th, 2008 at 1:11 am

    1) Mahmoud Abbas’ Official PA Newspaper Glorifies Mass Murder

    Published yesterday in the official Palestinian Authority daily newspaper: a picture of the mass murderer who killed 8 high school students in Jerusalem, with a caption calling him a “holy martyr:” Palestinian Authority Daily: Killer of eight young men is Holy Martyr- Shahid - Action should cost PA $150 million in US aid.

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=29207_Mahmoud_Abbas_Official_PA_Newspaper_Glorifies_Mass_Murder#comments

    Sick! Sick! Sick!

    2) Al Jazeera Denies the Holocaust - MEMRI TV (Video)

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=29201_Wafa_Sultan_on_Al_Jazeera#comments

  • 25. js  |  March 10th, 2008 at 9:51 am

    Sorry David, but you suck bad at the truth. David Ben Gurion helped organize the anti-Marxist party Ahdut Ha’avoda in 1918. He lead that party for years, and he was also a major factor in the first Israeli election in 1949. So much for Marxist communism, Ben Gurion actually hated Soviet Communism, he would never have repeated its mistakes.

    And, Israeli law is nothing like what you speak of, so you are ignorant of the truth there. An, to boot, Judaism requires its followers to treat those strangers among them with all rights and priviliges equal to one of thier own, so you are also ignorant of Judaism.

    I know the color of your spirit though. These concepts your espousing are not the truth, and have thier roots in the Nazi/KKK/White Supremacy movement. The truth is that you are naught but scum and nobody should have any reason to respect your ilk.

  • 26. js  |  March 10th, 2008 at 10:07 am

    Rights protected by Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty
    The rights protected by this law are detailed in several clauses:

    Section 2: There shall be no violation of the life, body or dignity of any person as such.
    Section 3: There shall be no violation of the property of a person.
    Section 4: All persons are entitled to protection of their life, body and dignity.
    Section 5: There shall be no deprivation or restriction of the liberty of a person by imprisonment, arrest, extradition or otherwise.
    Section 6:
    (a) All persons are free to leave Israel.
    (b) Every Israeli national has the right of entry into Israel from abroad.
    Section 7:
    (a) All persons have the right to privacy and to intimacy.
    (b) There shall be no entry into the private premises of a person who has not consented thereto.
    (c) No search shall be conducted on the private premises of a person, nor in the body or personal effects.
    (d) There shall be no violation of the confidentiality of conversation, or of the writings or records of a person.
    However, several cardinal human rights are missing from this document, such as the Right for Equality, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Protest, and others. These rights were given to the residents of Israel by general principles which existed before this Basic Law. Although these rights were intentionally left out of the law, some jurists, like Aharon Barak, see these rights are directly derived from the “right to dignity”. However, the Supreme Court’s rulings in the matter are inconsistent.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Human_Dignity_and_Liberty_%28Israel%29

  • 27. js  |  March 10th, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Le 19:34 -’The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God.

    Really hard to miss the truth, eh Dennis?

  • 28. irreversable&hellip  |  March 22nd, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    [...] secret-keeping/sharing has taught him. Frank is a mild-mannered englisherscarletletters.blogspot.comWhat to do About the Israeli-Palestinian War Yesterday I noted the rather intractable nature of the Israeli-Palestinian war and offered that I [...]


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