More on Obama’s Spiritual Mentor (UPDATED)
March 15th, 2008 at 12:14am Matt Margolis
“America is still the No. 1 killer in the world.”
“We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.”
“The government gives [black Americans] the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people … God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”
“We started the AIDS virus … We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty…”
Those are the words of Jeremiah Wright, Obama’s spiritual guide and mentor. Jeremiah Wright isn’t merely some pastor who endorsed Barack Obama.
Barack Obama has been going to Jeremiah Wright’s church for two decades. He officiated Barack and Michelle Obama’s wedding. He baptized their children. The title of Barack Obama’s book, The Audacity of Hope, comes from one of Wright’s sermons. Obama personally thanked Wright after winning his Senate bid in 2004. Obama “prayed” with Wright before announcing his bid for presidency.
In addition to the above quotes, just days after September 11, 2001 he said, “We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye … “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost.”
This is the kind of anti-white, anti-Israel, anti-American rhetoric that Barack Obama has been listening to for 20 years. And what does Barack Obama say about his church? Just last month he said, “I don’t think my church is actually particularly controversial.”
And yet, Obama’s supporters want us to ignore this story… just push it under the rug. While they’ll align Republicans with any obscure pastor who does or says something controversial, they’re trying to convince us that Obama’s 20-year long close relationship with Wright, including his effective endorsement of him, his church and rhetoric with a $22,500 donation in 2006 is irrelevant.
UPDATE: Wright holds an official position in Obama’s campaign.
UPDATE: Wright leaves Obama campaign.
Obama’s campaign announced that the minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., had left its spiritual advisory committee after videotapes of his sermons again ignited fierce debate in news accounts and political blogs.
Obama urges voters not to reject his candidacy because of guilt by association. I’m sorry, but this goes far beyond guilt by association. Wright’s departing the campaign was a politically motivated cover to protect Obama’s campaign, and clearly not a repudiation of Wright himself or his ministry, as Barack Obama has been connected to Wright for twenty years, and has less than a month ago dismissed criticisms of the church by saying “I don’t think my church is actually particularly controversial.”
UPDATE: Obama actually makes an appearance on FOX News.
UPDATE, by Mark Noonan: Obama defends himself, and not too well:
Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.
In other words: “I really want this to go away, and so I’m going to try and narrow it down to a condemnation of ‘anything which makes you mad’ without an actual condemnation of the worldview holding America to be a racist nation”.
Not good enough for me, Senator - I want to know if you believe in Wright’s overall preaching, or whether you disagree with it. Like this - I mostly agree with my pastor, but I disagree with his stance on the war…on the other hand, I believe his stance on the war is a valid position to hold in light of the message of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. I won’t say “I categorically denounce” my pastor’s views on the war even though I disagree with them. Are you, Senator, or are you not, a fully communicating member of “Trinity United Church of Christ”?
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats
87 Comments
1. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I guess we all know what you guys are going to be running on when it is McCain vs Obama for the Office of the President.
Obama’s “spiritual leader”. Good Luck with that. It matters only to you 19%-ers, but not to the rest of the country.
Don’t worry about the $4 a gallon for gas.
Don’t worry that our economy is in the crapper.
Just look at who Obama’s “spiritual leader is!!!”
2. Matt Margolis | March 14th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Give us a break Joe, you can pretend all you want that this isn’t relevant, but that doesn’t make it so.
Good luck running away from this story.
3. kjstrouble | March 14th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Joe,
How can you ignore the fact that Obama’s pastor has made such racist remarks? If it was McCain’s pastor (or Clinton’s for that matter) you would be screaming from the roof tops. Just because a black man says nasty, racist comments does not make it ok. And this man has been his pastor for 20 years, it is not something new. Think about it.
4. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 10:41 am
No really… nobody cares. Obama isn’t taking any marching orders from him.
Kind of like everyone was so afraid that JFK was going to take his marching orders from the Vatican.
If Mitt Romney was the candidate, would he be taking orders from someone wearing magic underwear?
If someone was an athiest, would you not vote for him/her because he/she didn’t go to church??
Give it a break. It only matters to religous zealots.
5. JS | March 14th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Even Kerry went to black Churches to show his support of them. And he lost. No modern politician ever adhered to radical religious beliefs and gotten as far as Obama has.
He is the DNC’s sinking ship. Wonder how fast the rats will leave the nest…..
6. Michael | March 14th, 2008 at 10:57 am
One thing’s for sure. This story is getting increasing media exposure and there ain’t no way to “dress up” this raving maniac’s hate speech. Forget about racism, its pure hate. Obama needs to run from this hater as fast as he can. What I don’t understand is what is keeping him from doing so? The longer he waits the more the implication is that he somehow supports that kind of talk which is contrary to what he claims he wants for America. He must be getting bad advice from his campaign staff. Run, Obama, run away from this creep. He will destroy your campaign. Hillary will insist on it. McCain has a similar problem with Hagee but not as bad as this one. This will kill Obama’s chances if he doesn’t totally reject this hater.
7. OhioOrrin | March 14th, 2008 at 11:12 am
(ahem) well joe…
…speaking as indie centrist voter, the WORDS of this pastor DO matter insofar as obama has no real record to run-on.
and obama’s staff saying to foreigners to ignore obama’s WORDS re NAFTA & Iraq also matters.
and that corruption trial has barely started.
8. SEW | March 14th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Right. Run. Instantaneous disassociation from 20 years of his “spiritual advisor”? Obama’s only ‘hope’ with that problem is to play his often used race card, again. That will allow him to keep his 12% locked in vote, but what does it do to the other 88%? Or simply try to ignore it hoping the press will continue to issue free passes.
These progressives can sure put on an entertaining show.
9. Almiranta | March 14th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Knee-Jerk Joe tries again. This is only partly about race, and the part that IS about race is not white against black but black against white.
No, it is about rabid anti-Americanism and the idea that it is OK to preach hatred as the Gospel. And it is about the mentality that is so dependent on creating hate, nurturing hate, validating hate, and creating as much divisiveness as humanly possible in this country.
Obama has the gall to sit and listen to this “friend” work an entire congregation into a fervor of paranoia, loathing, and disgust with this country, and then go out in public and announce he is going to UNITE this country.
Unite us how? In a bleak and self-lotahing vision of America? Is he going to unite us in shame?
But this is what is necessary for him to sell his Messiah persona, as the only one who can lead us out of this fetid swamp of vileness, into the Light. And the Light of what? A Gospel that says America is evil? A belief in a Bible that says “God damn America”? An America in which it is not only OK but desirable for blacks to loathe whites?
Now I understand how Barack got his mantra of “change”—any change, in any way, HAS to be better than this horrible miserable country we have now. And he is perfect for those of you who agree with this dark, unpleasant, sour view of this nation.
But those of us who are not only proud of this country but have been proud of it for decades, and not just because it is considering electing a black man as president, find this perspective troubling and creepy and very unrelated to reality. It’s much more a peek into the pathology of a person than of a nation.
10. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Run, Obama, run away from this creep
I see the post on Blogs for Victory already…
“Obama the flip-flopper turns his back on his Religion”
Then the hate filled rants will proceed.
11. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Orin: and obama’s staff saying to foreigners to ignore obama’s WORDS re NAFTA & Iraq also matters.
— That has been discredited.
Orin: and that corruption trial has barely started.
— Obama isn’t on trial for anything. His dealings with Rezko (as things are right now) are nothing more than inuendo and people on this blog trying to tie him to something illegal. If the trial comes out that Obama did something illegal, then let the daggers fly.
12. SEW | March 14th, 2008 at 11:35 am
“His dealings with Rezko (as things are right now) are nothing more than inuendo”
Who needs Leno?
13. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 11:43 am
SEW,
I’ve noticed you never seem to have much to say.
I guess I missed it. Maybe you were the only one who saw it… when exactly did Obama go on trial?
14. SteaM | March 14th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Wait, how is this guy racist?
I actually respect him and his use of free speech. It’s his right to have those opinions and it’s very American to voice his dissent. Even if it offends you crusty white republicans.
15. SEW | March 14th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Joe, You have alot to say, all hot air. Who said Obama went on trial?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120450564143806509.html?mod=opinion_journal_political_diary
16. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
oh for cryin’ out loud SEW… this has been covered over and over again in posts on this blog.
If something comes out of this that Obama did something wrong, he should pay the price. Until then, there is nothing here but innuendo and a convergence of timings.
You people keep bringing this up as though everything here is 100% fact and 100% illegal.
Meanwhile, you and everyone else here decries that due process must play out and that people are innocent until proven guilty. But apparently, that is only for members of the GOP. If you are a Dem, then anything that looks like it may possibly cross the line makes that person guilty.
I’m all for letting this play out and if he did anything wrong, then throw all the daggers.
But… If this whole trial goes thru and nothing comes out of it saying that Obama did anything illegal, are you going to appologize? I’d bet anything you will just say it is the damn liberal judge and media that distorts the info making him look innocent.
17. SteaM | March 14th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
This is amazing. The person who screams “racist” the loudest wins!
Ok, who’s first. I’ve got my racism-o-meter ready to measure loudness.
Is it not true that you guys hate this preacher because he preaches against the war?
18. SEW | March 14th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Summary of Obama’s campaign.
Clinton –racist
Ed Rendell–racist
Geraldine Ferraro–racist
Jeremiah Wright–”spiritual mentor” from a racist church; off limits.
Good luck with that. 88% of the voters don’t like that game.
19. Some Assembly Required | March 14th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Rod Parsley - “Spiritual Guide” From an Evangelical Church, Off limits (he hates the entire religion of Islam instead of white people)
20. Nietzsche-Is-Pietzsche | March 14th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Joe-
Don’t worry about Matt and the others here. Stories like this are only designed to stir up trouble and divert attention away from the fact the McCain has been courting the likes of John Hagee and Bob Jones. Both men are verilant anti-catholics. Hagee hopes to bring about the “Rapture” by rebuilding the Jewish Temple in Jeruselum on Palestinian controlled land. Bob Jones’ history of biblically inspired racial bigotry is well documented. He’s also called the Pope the “Roman Anti-Christ”. McCain even joined up with the former segregationist, the late Rev. Jerry Falwell who said that 9/11 was God’s punishment for this country’s tolerence of homosexuals and feminists. Imagine that!!
So don’t mind the echo in this chamber. The media is’nt taking their bait. Like all echoes, this one will soon die out.
21. Retired Spook | March 14th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Wait, how is this guy racist? I actually respect him and his use of free speech. It’s his right to have those opinions and it’s very American to voice his dissent. Even if it offends you crusty white republicans.
This is amazing. The person who screams “racist” the loudest wins!
Ok, who’s first. I’ve got my racism-o-meter ready to measure loudness.
Is it not true that you guys hate this preacher because he preaches against the war?
Is this the same SteaM who called me a racist a while back because I suggested that blacks would riot if Hillary stole the nomination from Obama, or are you an imposter — or just a @$#&^!* hypocrite?
22. Darva Conger | March 14th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
These Neo-Cons get spin up over the silliest s***. Only 20% of the nation thinks this country is headed in the right direction, according to a poll by that far leftist rag the Wall Street Journal and they’re worrying about this pastor.
Conservatives will wake up the morning of November 5th and say “How did Obama win? Didn’t the voters care about his crazy old anti-white, anti-Israel, anti-American pastor??”
23. SteaM | March 14th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Nah, spook, you said that black people are the only ones who commit crimes.
24. Long Island Chris | March 14th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Looks the like the trolls are blaming the messenger for delivering a message they don’t want people to hear.
Obama is going down. No one in their right mind could support him know what kind of values he has based on where he’s gone to church for 20 years…
25. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Matt/Mark, since everyone here seems so hyped-up over a “spiritual leader”, when do we get the next thread that reads…
I’ll be sure to look for it.
26. Tractatus | March 14th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
the idea that it is OK to preach hatred as the Gospel.
Yeah! Only right-wing preachers are allowed to do that!
27. Michael | March 14th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I do not run this blog but on my blog the headline would be “Obama finally does the right thing.” and I would continue along the line of why did it take so long to make such an obvious move. Going from a wrong position to a right position is not flip-flopping at all. Flip-flopping is changing your position without reason other than to pander to some special interest. Normally those who flip flop really don’t support either position and are available to the highest bidder.
28. Bull | March 14th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
this man is as much a Christian as the KKK.
29. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Michael,
Glad to hear you wouldn’t view it this way. But this blog tends to like those buzz words. “Flip-flopper”, “cut and run” “Defeatists”, etc.
30. Retired Spook | March 14th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Nah, spook, you said that black people are the only ones who commit crimes.
SteaM, you’ve either got me confused with someone else, or you’re a damn liar. Which is it?
Your comments, BTW, remind me of an old quote from Ann Landers:
<blockquote”The trouble with talking too fast is you may say something you haven’t thought of yet.”
31. SteaM | March 14th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
I do like that quote from Ann Landers… nice!
Barack’s preacher’s opinions are his own, not Barack’s. However, Barack might agree with some and disagree with others. I know that I went to a southern baptist church and disagreed with many things the preacher said.
Now, if these were Barack’s opinions spoken by he himself then you guys might have something to shout about.
32. clark smith | March 14th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
It makes me wonder what kind of person attends a church like that; what kind of person is edified by such talk, and enjoys it enough to come back again and again for weekly servings of race-hatred and America-bashing.
What person could visit that church and not be immediately struck with the irreligious nature of it all?
If I were forced to sit through a sermon like that, I’d need steel wool to scrub the ickiness off.
33. Bull | March 14th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
true, these are not obama’s words but they are coming from a man who he has said is his spiritual leader for the past 20 years.
did this guy just start feeling this way last week? these are some of the things that barack has been listening too all that time. if he didn’t like it or agree with it, i doubt he’d stay with that man for 2 decades.
if my priest ever said anything like that, i would never go back to that church again.
i don’t wonder what michelle obama was thinking anymore when she said this is the first time in her adult life that she’s been proud of her country. she’s been listening to this hate a long time too. looks like she bought in.
pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. no flag lapel pin, won’t cross his hand over his heart for the national anthem. these are tiny symbols of hatred towards your country, all under the disguise of freedom of speech. and yes, he has that right.
right now, john mccain is looking better and better to lead this country.
34. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Just out of curiosity…
Jerry Falwell exclaimed - ”For conservative people of faith, voting for principle this year means voting for the re-election of George W. Bush…”
Jerry Falwell also once claimed this when talking about 9/11 - I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way — all of them who have tried to secularize America — I point the finger in their face and say “you helped this happen.”
So. Does that make all the past President’s that he supported a racist (including George W. Bush)?
Maybe that is a bad example since a large number of you people may actually agree with what Falwell said.
Why did you folks not call Falwell a creep or a scum or all the other things you’ve lobbed out there over the last couple days?
35. SteaM | March 14th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
clark smith,
I dunno, but is it your business what church he goes to? Besides, my southern baptist church told me that gays were “wrong” and would go to hell if they continued to be gay.
I found that to be increasingly illogical, close-minded, intolerant, and offensive.
Yet you might (I know mark does) totally agree with my former church’s preacher’s stance on people who are gay.
So I could use your words and ponder, what kind of person would attend a church that has an offensive position on personal sexuality?
Do you see what I am saying?
It seems like it’s all free speech not anti-American. That is a matter of opinion.
36. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Bull: pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. no flag lapel pin, won’t cross his hand over his heart for the national anthem. these are tiny symbols of hatred towards your country, all under the disguise of freedom of speech. and yes, he has that right.
Yep… that sure is a bunch of bull. Do we really need to rehash this again?
Lapel Pin….
He explained himself this way… “The truth is that right after 9-11 I had a pin. Shortly after 9-11, particularly because as we’re talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.”
Hand over his heart…
Dude, it was a still picture. Not a video. It was the national anthem, not the pledge of allegience.
Wake up a bit. Hey Bull, guess what… I heard he was a muslim too!
BOO!!
37. Michael | March 14th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
The issue isn’t what he said, it is that this guy is Obama’s spiritual advisor, great friend, and on his campaign staff. That gives many people cause to think that Obama gives at least some credence to his rantings and hate speech. In that case, which Obama has done little to prove otherwise, people will assume that he believes that stuff and certainly will have no reason to vote for him. They don’t sound much like idiots to me.
38. Michael | March 14th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
BTW: Jerry Falwell is a con man who got rich preaching his lunacy on TV. I never paid him any attention other than to not how much of a fool he was. Pat Roberstson was another fraud.
39. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
How come nobody here actually brings up what Obama has said about Wright?
40. SteaM | March 14th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Exactly… this is what I am getting at. There are many Christian churches that preach things that are offensive to many people. Their positions on certian social matters can seem bigoted, racist, etc. to some people.
Yet to say anything against this is to be “against God” or anti-religion and such.
You guys are saying you disagree with this Christian’s point of view because it offends you, makes you think he is being anti-America because he doesn’t agree with war, doesn’t like racism.
41. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
From Obama’s mouth today…
Excerpt of an interview with the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review:
42. SteaM | March 14th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Uh oh!
Barack just told you guys to judge him by what he thinks.
43. clark smith | March 14th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
SteaM–
I agree with the Baptist stance on homosexuality.
I’ve attended many churches and many denominations in the course of my life. At every church I’ve attended it’s been understood that homosexuality is wrong, but I’ve never witnessed this stance being belabored.
Though I am adamant in the belief that homosexuality is wrong, it would definitely detract from my church experience were such a topic belabored.
Wright’s fixation on racial politics, and in expressions of special contempt for America, was particularly ill-befitting the pulpit, and his professed calling as a church pastor.
44. SteaM | March 14th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
You agree with the Baptist stance on homosexuality. That is your right. I don’t.
However, I also attended that church for the first 18 years of my life.
But even though my former preacher held those opinions I do not.
So why is it that Barack must share the opinions of his preacher? He could but he has stated that he does not.
When my preacher would say “love one another” and “respect each other” etc. then yes, I did and still do agree with that. However, I disagree with war also.
45. Christian Wright | March 14th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Deleted - off topic.
46. bob | March 14th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Do you remember the democrats last year at some kind of rally? I forgot when and where but during the Star Spangled Banner anthem Obama was the only one there not standing with his hand over his heart. I really believe he does not care deeply for this nation but to fleece it for what he can get out of it.
47. Canuckguy | March 14th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Regarding nutcase Jerry Falwell: who once claimed this when talking about 9/11 - I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way — all of them who have tried to secularize America — I point the finger in their face and say “you helped this happen.”
Perhaps Jerry has a valid point but not in the way he really means(God’s doings). The extreme Muslim fundamentalists hate all those people he blamed, they hate the freedom that allows such people to exist. Hence one of the major reasons they hate America. Most of those on Jerry’s list would end up dangling on the end of a crane hook Iranian style if the extreme Muslim fundamentalists got their way.
48. Joe | March 14th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
bob, give me a break. He doesn’t care about the country? Um… by the way… you are talking about the star spangled banner, not the pledge of allegiance.
Do you understand the difference of the two? You are not required to put any hand of your heart during the star spangled banner. Have you been to a sporting event? Have you watched one on tv? A lot of people stand with their hands behind their back. Some look at the flag, some don’t.
To say someone doesn’t care about this country because of that goes beyond foolish.
49. Uncommon | March 14th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
For all of you who lived in the 50’s and 60’s- do you remember siting in your safe suburban houses watching on TV scenes where blacks were being beaten by cops, mauled by attack dogs, and blasted by high powered water canons? And then you actually sit their with a puzzled look on your face and think- how could this guy actually think like that. If you really knew anything about the state of inner city black communities you might actually at least rationalize how someone could think like that. If you are white you have everyone reason to be proud of the good ole US of A- otherwise you see a world of change that has to take place before this nation lives up to its promise. I love when Spook and Mark claim that white racism is almost non-existant and that any racism that does exist comes from the left and from blacks/hispanics. Disgusting! Wake up people and realize that as long as Mark and Spooks for of white indifference exists, things will only get worse. I don’t agree with much of what Pastor Wright has said but I at least have the intellectual understanding of why he may say it.
50. LosMechanista | March 15th, 2008 at 1:02 am
So Matt,
after reading Barry’s comments regarding his FORMER pastor, can you see the difference between what Mr. Obama said, and what Mr McCain said about his same situation with Mr. Hagee?
I laugh at you Margolis. You’re a hack. You and your minion Noonan are turning this Blog into a sort of National Inquirer shameless rag.
How does crow taste?
Over and over you eat the same meal.
51. SEW | March 15th, 2008 at 10:51 am
What Snakeoilsalesman ‘comments’ and what he did are 2 different things. Bill Clinton stated he didn’t inhale. Obama pleads ignorance to what his spiritual advisor is about after having spent 20 years in the pews. His spiritual advisor is a racist and preaches hate and Snakeoil didn’t know it? And Clinton didn’t inhale or have sex with that woman?
Snakeoilsalesman, with progressive buyers.
52. SEW | March 15th, 2008 at 11:03 am
“Pastor Wright and Sen. Obama’s relationship:
Pastor for 20 years,
Friend, Mentor,
Spiritual leader,
Gave inspiration to write a book, ‘Audacity of Hope’,
Was married by him,
Baptized two daughters by him,
Thanked him after he won the Senate seat,
Consulted him before deciding to run for president,
Prayed privately with him before announcing his candidacy,
Member of his campaign team (resigned today),
And was like an uncle.
Sen. Obama said that he NEVER HEARD of this kind of comment from the pastor!!
He used all the correct words, denounce, reject, repudiate, condemn, etc to end the scandle.
What else could anyone say when the PRESIDENCY of United States is within a grasp.
Well, you be the judge if Sen. Obama has ‘Judgment to Lead’ (his campaign slogan)!!”
Perl
53. Mark Noonan | March 15th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Los,
Dishonesty is rather disgusting, and I wish you wouldn’t bring it here - to attempt a comparison between Wright (Obama’s pastor for 20 years) and Hagee (not McCain’s pastor, ever) is incredibly dishonest on your part.
The only thing I can figure is that you are a shill for the Obama camp, directed to come out to conservative websites and say whatever is necessary to try and get the subject off the manifest failure of Obama to deal with the fact that his pastor is a racist, anti-American mountebank.
54. Mark Noonan | March 15th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
uncommon,
Yeah, the dogs are always being set loose on black Americans these days…might as well be Selma in the 1950’s out there!
Things have changed, uncommon, and for Wright to give sermon after sermon essentially claiming otherwise is dishonest - it is, to put it bluntly, a lie for Wright to say what he says.
But, of course, Wright is free to say what he wants - our only concern here is to find out, precisely, how much Obama believes this stuff…and if he doesn’t believe it, get an explanation as to why he persisted in using as a spritual mentor a man he now claims to disagree with.
I have a spiritual mentor, too, uncommon…the disagreements between us are small…generally, anything my pastor says is something that I am in agreement with.
55. Almiranta | March 15th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Where to start??
First, SteaM IS a damned liar. Not only did Spook never say that “only blacks commit crimes” but no one else did, either. Vaporhead has moved beyond his proven inability to process any information without first running it through his filters of general hatefulness, BDS, and knee-jerk opposition to anything said by any conservative, into simply manufacturing statements and attributing them to others.
Second, as clark pointed out, the Falwell comment was NOT that America “deserved” to be attacked, though this is the spin the lying radical Left loves to put on it. He merely, as clark noted, pointed out that the actions of many in this country have disgusted many around the world.
What can be funnier than seeing Saint Susan Sarandon LECTURE us on how “the world” hates America, blissfully unware that she herself is a poster child for the reasons millions do revile this country? Public nudity, boobs hanging out of skintight dresses, advocating abortion on demand, shacked up for years, mother to illegitimate children–she IS what much of “the world” hates about America.
And what “the world” hates about America is not what America really is, but the image of America exported by Hollywood. I hired two professional college graduates from another country, intelligent and pretty sophisticated people, who came here believing that it was hypocritical to be mad at Clinton for his affairs, as “all American husbands have girlfriends”. They knew this how??—–because they watched Dallas and Dynasty on TV and saw a lot of American movies.
One went to Thanksgiving dinner in the Midwest with another employee, and returned stunned, absolutely stunned. “I never knew that Americans did things like that” he told me. “Things like what?” I asked. “Got together with their families for holidays, sat around eating and talking, just like real people” was the answer. He could not get over it—-generations of Americans sitting down to eat together, celebrating a holiday, acting like—people.
Not exactly our international image. I think if conservatives ran Hollywood, it might be, or at least would be part of that image.
And not only does Falwell not preach hatred of America, he does not preach hatred of other people, particularly because of the color of their skin. And neither does his religion. It does say that some things are sins, and it is common to preach hatred of the sin. But as we all have control over our lives, we can choose to sin or not, or to care or not if others disapprove of the actions we have chosen to take.
Wright preaches hatred of people—furthermore, hatred of people based on the color of their skin.
Jesus, hanging on the cross, bleeding and in agony, in the immediacy of his suffering, forgave those who put him there. But Wright preaches that his congregation should not forgive anyone with the same color of skin as those who, generations ago, did bad things to his generations-ago ancestors. How very Christian.
Falwell warns us, ‘People will hate us for our actions, so we should be careful about how we act’. Wright preaches ‘Hate and distrust those with white skin, never forgive, never forget, and never trust—and this is a vile nation, deserving of damnation, and the Bible says so’.
Only the most rabid Lefties could even try to conflate the two.
56. Almiranta | March 15th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I have obserived that for decades, black people wanted to be accepted, included, treated as equals, and now that this a reality in some areas and close to it in others, they are the ones fighting inclusion and demanding that they be treated differently.
Now it appears that many black people have decided they need to be treated differently—have different rules, different standards. It is now SOP for a black person to scream “racism” at every opportunity—and many of the claims are so ridiculous, the entire perception of blacks is being damaged.
The determination of many blacks to be victims is disconcerting. Take, for example, the whines of “disenfranchisement” in one case based on the fact that in some city, some crime had been committed and some black voters had to drive past a scene where police cars were parked. Yes, folks, we were treated to the claims that these poor put-upon people were not only SOOOOOO “intimidated” by having to drive past an established crime scene that they simply could not proceed to the polling place, they were actually convinced that this was an evil plot to DISENFRANCHISE them by “scaring “them out of voting.
What kind of nonsense is this? The same kind we see day in and day out, all around the country.
I’ve quoted the article I read where a black woman whined about the “constant, daily, racism” she had to endure—yet the only example she could give was that some clerks put her change on the counter instead of into her hand.
My heart bled. Oh, the horror!!!
Of course, when that happens to me, a white woman, I don’t have this long laundry list of ego-centric explanations about how this simple occurance was really about ME, and about how the world sees ME. No, as an average citizen, I have to just notice, if I am so inclined, that some clerks have different habits than others.
As a white woman, I simply live in a world where a lot of people are rude. If I were black, all that rudeness would be directed at ME, I would be the center of the universe, there would be no accidents or coincidences, no one would simply be having a bad day and not smiling at anyone, no one would simply be a jerk—no, it would always be about ME. The inverse of old-style racism where blacks really WERE treated badly as a rule is now a new racism where nothing that ever happens to a black person is, can be, anything but hatred for his skin color, and which then justifies constant rage and hatred for everyone who is not black.
We are actually told that blacks hating whites is not racist because to be racist the hated has to come from someone in power or control–therefore, only whites can be racists, but white-hating blacks are not. What crap.
I saw a black woman telling Sean Hannity that white people just “don’t understand black churches” and that is why we are upset at Wright. ??????? Is she saying that “black churches” talk like this all the time, and we just are suprised at what Wright says because we don’t “understand black churches”? She kept talking about the “black experience” and “black churches” and so on, and I kept thinking how much better off everyone would be if we stopped this separation and started being Americans first and colors second.
Which is what I THOUGHT the goal was, what blacks were fighting for back when there WERE firehoses and dogs and other bad things being used to try to stop them from what I THOUGHT was a struggle for equality.
Sure I am aware of black skin when I talk to people—just as I am aware of hair color, eye color, height, accents, clothing, perfume, gender. It’s all IDENTITY. Being aware that a person is black is not racist.
But this woman seemed to be telling us that we SHOULD be racist, because we SHOULD ascribe certain characteristics to people based on their skin color. She seemed to be complaining that we are not racist enough, because we don’t “understand” that “black churches” are “different”.
This country has fought to become color-blind, and now the predominent non-white color is fighting to retain and even emphasize cultural differences based solely on skin color.
This country has fought to eliminate blind hatred of people based on skin color, and now the predominant non-white group is preaching hatred based on skin color.
The white population of this country has done a great job of drastically reducing, if not eliminating, racial prejudice—now the ball is in another court. And all I see here is the Usual Suspects not only defending racism but trying to accuse those who decry it of being guilty of it.
And no doubt the trolls will call ME racist for noticing.
57. Barak | March 15th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
To those of you comparing Falwell with Wright, a quick note. Quit being dishonest with yourselves first and quit being dishonest with us second.
Falwell according to his Christian belief, gives part of the blame for 9/11 to different alternative lifestyles. As Canuck stated, in reallity, that is exactly (in part) why the terrorists attacked us.
Wright however, blames the whole of America for the worlds problems and carry out traitorous speech against the country that has worked so hard to provide freedom for ALL including the likes of him.
Wright has every right to preach this in his own church, and I have every right to question Mr. Obama’s intentions after sitting through 20 years of Wright’s rant’s.
Try being honest with yourselves guys!
58. Almiranta | March 15th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
“A lot of people stand with their hands behind their back. Some look at the flag, some don’t.”
How many of them are running for the office of President of the United States, the country for which that flag stands?
For that matter, how many of them project the image of respecting the flag or the nation? When I see them, I think they are slobs who just don’t give a damn. So why am I supposed to think differently when it is a Dem candidate doing it?
How many of them choose to take a disrespectful stance, away from those showing respect, slouched and looking away, in front of cameras, knowing that the picture will be taken and probably published?
No, Obama was playing to the radical Left, America-hating crowd when he pulled off his lapel pin and refused to show public respect to the flag. And now, we learn, to his fellow congregationalists.
Hey, it seems to have worked. Look who was impressed by his antics, and look at who are defending them.
There is nothing at all wrong with that. We can handle having someone like him run. It’s just that we expect him to run on an accurate representation of his beliefs, not hiding behind beliefs he does not share but which he knows he must claim if he hopes to win.
I just think those who vote for Obama should have the right to know who they are voting for—and if the majority of Americans happens to vote for the REAL Obama, well, so be it.
He’s spent two decades in the congregation of an America-hating race-baiting bigot, who preaches these sentiments from the pulpit. He has spent 20 years following the advice of man who twists Scripture to make it support his hateful invective. He has chosen to be a part of a congregation which stands, cheers, hoots and hollers, and shouts “AMEN!” at the most hateful and nasty comments imaginiable—hateful at a KKK rally, unimaginable coming from the pulpit of a Christian church. He has chosen a denomination of Christianity which, evidently, does not include forgiveness in its teachings.
Fine. It’s his right. We just expect him to be honest about it.
59. Tractatus | March 15th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Dishonesty is rather disgusting, and I wish you wouldn’t bring it here
You bring enough for everybody, Noonan. This episode is just the latest demonstration.
And I’m sure Obama is so very, very concerned that his response is not good enough for a far-right wingnut like yourself who will attack him no matter what he does. Keep trying to find that gotcha moment, Noonan. We find your floundering to be highly amusing
It’s just that we expect him to run on an accurate representation of his beliefs, not hiding behind beliefs he does not share but which he knows he must claim if he hopes to win.
Why are you so upset that Obama doesn’t run on the beliefs that you mistakenly insist he simply must have, ‘Ranty?
60. FmrMarine | March 15th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Ironic;
Dont the liberal marxist’s continuously try to have conservative churches tax exemption taken away for preaching politics from the pulpit?
YET
This MANIAC and his GOOD BUDDY louis fartacan can spew this RACIST garbage,from the pulpit, and no one bats an eye.
61. Fmr Marine | March 15th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
More on earbama = RACIST!
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/03/obama_12_years_ago.html
62. NeoClown | March 15th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Obama’s wife says she’s never been proud to be an American.
Obama’s pastor says that God should damn America.
The folks in Obama’s inner circle have issues.
63. SEW | March 15th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
More on the UNITER.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YmE1M2U2NmQ3NzFlNDE1MmNlZDZkYjBjZjhiY2ZiYjQ=
64. Making Race an issue | March 15th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Deleted - links to racist website.
65. kimberly4bush | March 15th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
To say this issue should be swept under the rug or doesn’t count for much is a nifty little lefty ploy. Sorry, Charlie. You wish.
We the people are finally getting a glimpse of the real Obama. In his recent appearances, he talked out both sides of his mouth. It was obvious he was lying. Does he really expect us to believe he NEVER heard Wright talk of such hatred? 20 years on the pulpit and Obama never heard anything like that? Okay, dokey.
It’s not enough that Obama and his family are members of this hateful church, Wright is his spiritual mentor! Let me ask our resident lefties this … if you knew someone for 20+ years, would you NOT know their views, be it political, racial, etc.? Pa-leese! Give me a break.
Wright blames whitey for the slavery of black people. I may be mistaken but didn’t slavery BEGIN with BLACK Egyptians? Wright might also be surprised to know that some African countries continue slavery today. Uh oh. You say, whites are not continuing slavery, but blacks? Where’s the outrage, Wright?
Finally, if Wright is so damn concerned about the US “killing so many innocents”, why is he not concerned with Obama’s stance on abortion and partial-birth abortion???
66. Pain | March 15th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Deleted - insulting.
67. Diane Tomlinson | March 15th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Deleted - insulting.
68. Barak | March 15th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
It’s good to see Diane Tomlinsons Pain using their grasp of the english language to it’s fullest extent.
Stupid…….Idiot!!!!!! LMAO! You guys are a riot!
69. kimberly4bush | March 15th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
My point is slavery is NOT a black or white issue. Africans had been trading and owning slaves for millennia. African men owned black men and women and they still do TODAY.
Why does Wright not condemn black Africans keeping black Africans as slaves? Why doesn’t he condemn freed slaves who went on to own slaves in their own right? Why doesn’t he praise white people for their roles in abolishing slavery in the US 140 years ago?
70. kimberly4bush | March 15th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
And, Diane, the blame would probably lie with the “boyfriends” and the women who were dumb enough to date them. LOL.
71. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 11:32 am
So in slavery the end user gets off scot free in all cases except for the case where Mauritanian slave sellers and buyers are all black?
Well fine what happened to all those black folks who came across the Atlantic in chains, the ones that survived I mean, is there just a big sign that says, “This page left intentionally blank” in your history book? For one hundred and fifty years plus white Americans held black people in slavery and treated them worse than if they were pack animals and you don’t think some animosity should remain from that in the black community? I know these are some difficult questions because they don’t fit into the world of Christian perfection of the white race but isn’t coming to terms with sin a great step forward in that journey into the light?
I also think that a reply to a deleted comment gets to remain is odd and does not diminish the fact that kimberly4bush is on the merits of her words, stupid. That’s not an insult Noonan that is my opinion.
But far be it for me to tell you how to run your blog but I repeat at our blog we never delete comments because people disagree or even tell the truth about the perceptions regarding the intellect of other commenters.
72. FmrMarine | March 16th, 2008 at 11:49 am
>>>>So in slavery the end user gets off scot free in all cases except for the case where Mauritanian slave sellers and buyers are all black?<<<<
How about the muslem slave owners?
or black slave owners?
or black slave traders?
Wasn’t the white man who ended this practice?
GET OVER SLAVERY….IT IS DONE!
yesterdays news, old, past, boring, except for the few creatons who ride it for profit.
73. kimberly4bush | March 16th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Diane: You are completely misinterpreting my point. Did I ever once say slavery was a good thing? Of course, I condemn slavery and what happened 200 years ago was terrible and a black mark on our history. I don’t think anyone should ever forget what happened.
But … to continuously “preach” about it only brings anger to the black community, to continuously “preach” hatred of white people because of slavery will never bring healing, to continuously “preach” that America is evil and run by rich, white people who are against black people is only going to incite violence and hatred against people of another color. I guess that’s okay with you?
BTW …
I’ve never heard of any Rabbi “preach” hatred toward the German people for the Holocaust and the murder of 6,000,000+ Jews.
I’ve never heard of any Christian pastor “preach” hatred toward the Italian people for the persecution and murder of Christians hundreds of years ago.
I’ve never heard of a black minister “preach” hatred toward the Egyptians for enslaving and killing black Africans hundreds of years ago.
Finally, to get back to the MAIN TOPIC, Obama HAS been a member of this church for over 20 years. He HAS been listening to this hate speech against white people and America for 20 years. He HAS heard Rev Wright talk about his hatred for whites and America because Wright is his personal friend and mentor.
And, this is the man who wants to “unite” America.
74. Barak | March 16th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
This page left intentionally blank” in your history book? For one hundred and fifty years plus white Americans held black people in slavery and treated them worse than if they were pack animals and you don’t think some animosity should remain from that in the black community? /
Ha, as if anyone that doesn’t own a cabin in Alaska could ever forget much less leave a blank page about slavery. Thanks to people like you Diane and Wright we’ll never ever forgive ourselves and move forward from this issue, hm……….I think the word is progress! Isn’t that what your supposed to be Diane….a progressive. It was my great great great grandfather that actually helped in the fight against slavery, yet you want to remind ME as if I didn’t have a black sister & neice that I have always loved dearly. Get Over It! It was another day and another people. I’m going to continue to progress to the point that someday color….is color, not an issue.
By the way slavery last here in America from (1619-1865) , it was happening long before that all over Europe and of course the further back in time you go the further south slavery runs.
Quit pointing the damn finger! We are sick of it! And your pointing at the WRONG people. That goes for the likes of Wright also!!!
75. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
All I’m saying is if white men had done their own work [1619-1863] you wouldn’t even be having this conversation. But you and I know an all white America would have devolved into class warfare in the 1860s that would have lasted far longer and a man like Lincoln would have never had a chance to come to power.
76. Fredrick Schwartz | March 16th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Some of this is jealousy too.
Most black prachers can say what they want without any risk to their job or family but there are very few white men that can step up into a pulpit and say derogatory things about black people without being run out on a rail.
White men have gone from 1950 from being able to slur black to their face in public knowing they can’t do a thing in their own defense to being terrified of going into an inner city or worse being fired and having their lifestyle taken from them for speaking their mind.
Toward reparations having you in that kind of box is worth about a dime an hour.
77. Pain | March 16th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Second, as clark pointed out, the Falwell comment was NOT that America “deserved” to be attacked, though this is the spin the lying radical Left loves to put on it. He merely, as clark noted, pointed out that the actions of many in this country have disgusted many around the world.
This is a misleading statement. The quote from Falwell as lifeted from the video trascript at Fox News reads, “Throwing God off successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this, because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad.
I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make an alternative lifestyle — the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who tried to secularize America — I point the finger in their face and say you helped this happen.”
The “we” Falwell refers to here is America.
78. phnx | March 16th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
“All I’m saying is if …” DT
Now isn’t that special. You have the arrogance to speculate on how history would have developed if…(apply 20th Century political thought to the 17th Century). Brilliant Diane just Brilliant.
And if the US hadn’t intervened in WWII you’d be speaking German right now you twit.
Not enought traffic over at your website, so you’ve got to come here to spout your nonsense? The pompous psuedo intellectualism of you and your band of hellions is really rather tiresome.
79. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
79. phnx | March 16th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
“And if the US hadn’t intervened in WWII you’d be speaking German right now you twit.”
Nope more likely Japanese if my parents hadn’t been executed. They are feisty little buggers. And likely you wouldn’t have been born and if you had you would have been half Japanese. And that’s Ms Twit to you!
And yes I do have the ‘arrogance’ because historically white Americans had the arrogance to hold slaves threat them like second class citizens after emancipation and lynch them at the start of the 20th Century.
And there is a bumper crop of traffic at our site including fun loving members of the GOP who come by to “read the articles.”
80. SteaM | March 16th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
I am out of this conversation since I think I have said my peace…
But I did want to point out that I think this conversation that is happening in the commentss section of this blog post is a postive one. One that discusses people’s views and perspectives regarding race, religion and racism.
I think that it is fair to say that Barack was the inspiration for this. Even if some of you do not like him no matter what happens, what church he goes to, and who his pastor used to be.
81. Jeremiah | March 16th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
I think this conversation that is happening in the commentss section of this blog post is a postive one.
SteaM,
I would have to agree, in the sense that … it’s a positive thing that we can expose Obama and the fakiness of him and his pastor. Such a mixture for the Presidency of the United States would be a deadly disaster.
–Jeremiah–
82. phnx | March 16th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Diane, is your arrogance and indignation at racist acts in the US overcompensation for the white guilt you feel for racist acts of the British Empire?
Or is it simply hypocrisy?
BTW:
Thanks to my Dad and millions of Americans like him you have your freedom. He came to this country as a young man and was proud to fight for it.
83. Diane Tomlinson | March 17th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Born and raised in Iowa phnx. My dad fought in the Second World War at Anzio. I’m a brown haired Swedish American, or at least I was . . .
84. phnx | March 17th, 2008 at 11:52 am
How ’bout that, my I’m swedish America as well.
85. Joe | March 17th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Just a quick question since you folks are all up in arms over what Obama’s pastor said. You all say how he has been going to that church for 20 years and it must have rubbed off on him and blah blah blah.
My question is to Mr Noonan. Have you not said before that YOUR FATHER was a life-long Democrat who just recently changed to Repub? So you are what? 40-something? So if you have been around him for over 40 years, can we assume that his Dem ideas rubbed off on you? If not, why do you claim Obama must have support his Pastor’s comments?
86. JS | March 17th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
75. Barak | March 16th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
For one hundred and fifty years plus white Americans held black people in slavery and treated them worse than if they were pack animals and you don’t think some animosity should remain from that in the black community?
————
More lies. The civil war ended in 1865. The US declaired independence in 1776. That really is not 150 years. To my account, its less than 100. Not to diminish the wrongs of slavery, but to demonstrate that you are talking BS.
87. Nietzsche-Is-Pietzsche | March 17th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Js-
Lies?
1619 - The first African slaves were sold to the American colonies in Jamestown, Va.
My math isn’t what it used to be but I’d say that’s about 246 years to be exact.