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The Leftwing Disconnect From Reality
March 16th, 2008 at 02:59am Mark Noonan
Mark Steyn notes the real issue vis a vis Obama and his pastor:
The Senator has said he missed Jeremiah Wright’s post-9/11 sermon. How many other Sundays did he decide to sleep in? Did he also miss the one where the Reverend Wright referred to “the US of KKKA”? How about the one where the pastor said “the government lied about Pearl Harbor. They knew the Japanese were about to attack”?
Out of town that morning? Well, what about the one where he said “the government lied about inventing HIV as a means of genocide against people of color”? Alarm clock out of batteries that Sunday, too?…
…Obama listened to Wright’s bilge week in, week out his entire adult life and by the end was giving this huckster over 20 grand a year to keep him in business. It seems reasonable to assume, given some of her observations on the hustings, that Mrs Obama agrees with the broad thrust of Jeremiah Wright’s “theology”. Does her husband?
Derb wondered the other day whether the Obama campaign was a massive “con job”. But it’s worse than that. If he were a con artist, he’d be like every other opportunist pol contemplating a run for the presidency: he’d be slick enough to know from the get-go that the Reverend Wright was a guy he needed to keep at way beyond arm’s length; instead, he named his big pre-campaign hey-world-here-I-am book after one of his sermons. That suggests Obama didn’t even appreciate Wright was a potential problem. Which, in turn, suggests a candidate as disconnected from reality as his pastor is.
I noted this sort of thing back in 2004 - the way our leftwing friends are divorced from reality and don’t even realise how downright bizarre they sound at times.
From what I can tell from afar, Senator Obama seems like a pretty nice guy; I’d probably have a fine time hanging out with him - but the fact that he did, indeed, sit for year after year at the feet of Wright and never once said, “this man is ’round the bend kookoo”, shows that for all of Obama’s accomplishments, he’s spent his life in the cramped and bigoted intellectual atmosphere of the left. I doubt that Obama - like most leftists - has ever really sat down and talked to a conservative; or read a conservative book. For Obama, Wright’s ignorant diatribes seemed rational because Obama has never, it would seem, exposed himself to a contrary point of view.
It is to be hoped that a man of Obama’s intelligence will, one day, challenge himself intellectually and immerse himself for a while in conservative thought. The result, I believe, would be startling - not least to those on the left who currently support him. The problem, as usual, is to actually get a leftist to listen to dissenting points of view. From our own experience here on the blog, we can see that leftists tend to run screaming from anything which calls into question their worldview - followed by the immediate attempt to change the subject.
Meanwhile, all we can do is keep fighting them - we daren’t let them get too much power, because people as off base as modern American leftists will cause catastrophe if they gain the power they want.
UPDATE: Meanwhile, don’t forget that Wright isn’t Obama’s only problem; he’s also hip deep in Rezko, and it looks like Rezko shovelled more cash at Obama than previously thought.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats, Kook Left
96 Comments Add your own
1. SEW | March 16th, 2008 at 3:22 am
Obama shoves cash to Wright, and he didn’t have a clue. Rezko shoves cash to Obama, and he didn’t have a clue. And Obama is ready to be POTUS? Absolute INSANITY.
2. SEW | March 16th, 2008 at 3:50 am
Compared to Obama, McGovern and Dukakis are beginning to look like excellent choices. Did I mention Obama has a nice smile and was a course instructor in law school?
3. lib | March 16th, 2008 at 4:14 am
what is absolute insanity is that Mark has the arrogance to complain that Obama doesn’t have enough experience to be the president while he maintained a blog for George Bush - the single biggest buffoon in the history of US presidents (and thats hard to do). Bush only got through life due to the fact that he was his father’s son. Anyone else with his skill level would end up as a garbage man. I say it every time I read this blog - Mark Noonan knows no shame
4. winnowhead | March 16th, 2008 at 5:04 am
Like all of us “leftists” who expose ourselves to you on a regular basis?
But in reference to what you just pulled out of your ass with respect to Obama:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oped0314obamamar14,0,7185898.story
5. uffy | March 16th, 2008 at 5:29 am
Wright is a radical separatist, nothing new there. For decades black leaders have kept the victim card alive and well. Instead of becoming part of the USA, these radical black leaders just love to tout that they are AFRICAN. Not one of them was born in Africa. Not one of them has denounced their US citizenship and moved to Africa. They are nothing more than a “cult of hate”. Progressive blacks want nothing to do with this cult and continue to speak out against them. I hope that Barack Hussein Obama does the same. I fear that his message of change is only air speak.
6. robert blunt | March 16th, 2008 at 6:35 am
Like “Campaign Carl” said on Fox News the other day, “people who live in glass houses …”
You guys keep it up. The reverends Hagee and Parsley are going to be household names. Catholics a cult? Katrina timed by God to prevent a gay pride parade in New Orleans? Islam a dirty religion? Nominate Romney as VP and you’ll be defending every bizarre statement ever made by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
Careful what you wish for, you might get it.
Bring it on.
7. Eric T | March 16th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Robert Blunt-
Hagee and Parsley simply endorsed McCain. There is a huge difference between getting an endorsement and being a member of a church for 20 yrs that preaches race hatred. How many acts of violence are the results youths listening to years of that kind of hate?
I recently listened to a young White kid ( The kind that listens to too much rap music, pants saggin, hat sideways,) the kid was telling me how White America is the problem with everything, ect… ect…
I had to remind the kid, that he was “White”. but The influence MTV and pop culture has is so strong, that it didn’t register with the kid. He just kept rambling on. And sure enough a vote Obama pitch was at the end.
8. steveGA | March 16th, 2008 at 9:14 am
“divorced from reality and don’t even realise how downright bizarre they sound at times.”
Aren’t you the guy who was predicting Republican gains in the 06 elections, on the very day of those elections? How’d that work out for you? Were you divorced from reality then, or just really, really stupid?
Do you realize how bizarre you sound when you routinely tell us that polls don’t mean anything, and then cite polls that you find favorable?
Do you realize how bizarre you sound when you confidently proclaim the impending glories of the Republican Party, when all evidence points to their complete and total collapse?
What planet do you live on? Do you read the stuff you write, or is it just garbage flowing from your fingers?
9. Sorta Blogless Sun&hellip | March 16th, 2008 at 10:12 am
[…] disconnected from reality? You betcha. Head to Blogs For Victory for the […]
10. Kahn | March 16th, 2008 at 10:52 am
winnowhead - but I have seen liberals post here that they don’t read the conservative posts…
11. bagni | March 16th, 2008 at 11:07 am
markality
the orbital observers have noticed you’re catholic?
so what’s up with
mccain = john hagee
as always….we’re bewildered
please explain
we need help
because by the bfv standards
we can’t vote for anyone now
12. SEW | March 16th, 2008 at 11:30 am
“mccain = john hagee
as always?.we?re bewildered
please explain”
McCain belonged to this church for 20 years? Hagee was McCain’s spiritual advisor? McCain was married by this guy, his wife was brainwashed also, and children also brainwashed?
No wonder you’re always bewildered. That’s how it is in la la land.
13. kimberly4bush | March 16th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Kahn … Bagni just proved your point. LOL!
Lefties can’t debate on this issue. Do they actually believe Obama when he said he NEVER heard anything like that coming out of Wright’s mouth? Not in 20 years of sermons, not in 20 years of a close, personal relationship with the man?
See how they equate the mess Obama is in to Hagee’s endorsement for McCain. That’s their argument. Silly little neorads.
14. FmrMarine | March 16th, 2008 at 11:37 am
OMG
Hitlery is looking like a school girl compared to this black hate monger.
Ear bama is definately one dangerous guy.
15. Almiranta | March 16th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Why bother to explain to purposefully ignorant and selectively blind Libs? Theirs is a knee-jerk reaction: Lib=Good, Conservative=Bad.
As we keep pointing out, a couple of guys who happen to have some unpleasant ideas have endorsed McCain. But he didn’t attend their churches, wasn’t exposed week in and week out to their diatribes responding by supporting them, and he merely said a gracious thank you to them for their support.
Obama, as Steyn pointed out, was part and parcel of Wright’s congregation for about two decades. And as I have pointed out, it’s not just about Wright, it’s about his congregation. In that video, you can hear the enthusiastic cheering and calls of support from the congregation, you can see some standing in support as they cheer Wright on.
This is clearly an interactive congregation. Is Obama now claiming that he never interacted with his fellow congregants? Never showed support for what Wright said?
I think Mark is right about this—that this was the reality of that church, to the point where Obama may not have seen it as abnormal or aberrant because it WAS his reality.
But that doesn’t hold true, either, as he was smart enough to hide this aspect of his life when he was in public, when he was trying to get elected by people who would be (and are) appalled to see this kind of thing going on in the heart of America.
My first reaction to the Wright video? That I was seeing an American, Christian, madrassa. Though the “Christian” part seemed pretty tenuous, a self-description which really doesn’t seem to have much to do with the teachings of Christ.
And the black reaction, which seems to be that “whites just don’t understand black churches”, seems to be saying that this IS the “black church experience”. Really? In my white rural Catholic experience I never knew that BLACK churches preached hatred—hatred of whites, hatred of Jews, hatred of America. Silly me, I thought people went to church to worship God and hear of the teachings of God.
This is the most depressing thing I have learned in a long long time. Not that the resident trolls think it is just fine and are trying to spin it all into just another way to attack conservatives—that is a given. But to learn that so many black people seek out and revel in an experience which teaches them, in the guise of religious doctrine, that whites are evil and America is, too—that is very distressing.
And DO NOT claim that conservatives are responsible for this divisiveness. We are just learning about it, and quite frankly, while the trolls’ ardent defense of Liberal positions that are at least vaguely political is silly enough, their rush to defend this is inexcusable.
I no longer think that Obama means well. I did, for a while, think he was a naive but well-meaning guy who was just in over his head, and getting off on the adulation of the even more naive who adored him and fed his ego.
But I now think he is a calculating and shrewd politician who has been clever enough to figure out how to cloak his true agenda, and how to hide his true feelings, until he could acquire power. I was disgusted for a long time by his blatant racial manipulations, but this goes far beyond that.
16. hermie | March 16th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Not only was Obama willfully blind to the corruption in Chicago and Springfield; especially regarding his political patrons, but he was also willfully deaf to the racist rantings of his closest spriritual advisor, and political advisors.
Obama is also willfully dumb regarding the anti-Israel policies of his closest foreign policy advisors, and willingly forgetful regarding his own past.
17. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Dangerous to whom Fmrmarine?
I guess the only person that could see a president as dangerous would have to be the same type of person that sees Bush as dangerous.
Does the right wing have Obama Derangement Syndrome? Or is this an envy of of some anatomical genesis in the lower reaches of the himan anatomy?
When it comes to sticking to the subject heck yeah I can see where what Reverend Wright has said would outrage white Americans . Yet I’m equally outraged that there are people who look like me who think because of the color of their skin and the land on which they were born they have some Divine right to do what ever the heck they please and never be called to task.
And Noonan,
Having a different view of the world doesn’t mean you are disconnected with reality it just means there are people many tens of millions who disagree with you, the GOP and the sitting President on the direction the USA is taking these days. Aside from that these opinions to those that run the show in New York and DC mean about as much as a fart in a Cat 5 hurricane.
One thing I can say for you Mark Noonan is that, you, because of your loyalty to the GOP in what figures to be an electoral slaughter in November [that is if Hillary or Obama can back away gracefully before the convention] as well as a congressional bloodbath, will rise to a position of punditry in the GOP that you may have never dreamed possible. You may even usurp Kristol, Coulter and Limbaugh. I can see you by the end of the Clinton/Obama eight years of peace and prosperity in 2016 championing Bobby Jindal in his race against Obama and even witnessing the formation of a Chrsitian Right party in the United States.
Oh how divided you will be between religion and conservatism! But like any smart free agent you will follow the money.
9/11? It was about time that the US was frightened even if for a moment about what its foreign policy means to the rest of Terra. While racism isn’t the in your face brand that it was when a mob of spitting hose bearing pals had your back and it couldn’t cost you your job to be in Klan it does still run deep in the soul of many millions of Americans with faces just as pale as mine.
18. FmrMarine | March 16th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Why do the marxists call for the end of tax exempt status of conservative churches if politics is even mentioned.
BUT interestingly not a peep is mentioned when lunatics like wright, and fartacan, rant their racist and political garbage from the pulpit.
19. Michael | March 16th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Rasmussen claims Obama dropped 7 percentage points overnight after the Wright videos. The media keeps playing them over and over and over which tells me that at least they are not buying his belated stiff-arm of Wright. Obama let this fester way too long and then took reluctant and hedging action to distance himself from the preacher of hate. Most of the clips are from a multi-DVD collection of Wright’s preaching. You don’t suppose Obama might have obtained a copy maybe even for free? If so how can he deny hearing all that stuff he claims to have missed?
Add to that mess the Rezko trial and revelations that caused Obama to already revise how much money Rezko gave him, I see a crash and burn event. This is a great disappointment for me because I soooo wanted him to destroy Hillary. Now it doesn’t look like he can. Even the Koz Klowns are in chaos. And it hasn’t even begun to get as nasty as it will now.
20. Fredrick Schwartz | March 16th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
President George W Bush, in 1984 when his life was spiralling out of control due to drugs and alcohol, was offered counsel by Reverend Billy Graham one of the most anti-Semitic men of the 20th Century. The same revulsive man who sat with Nixon and accused American Jews of all manner of crimes including but not limited to being a front for global communist takeover.
So is this how far the country I was born into has fallen since my demise?
Are you now such petty religious dogmatics that what your preachers say in the pulpit dtermines your worthiness to be elected president? Then let’s paint Hillary who is a close personal friend of Fellowship wingnut Doug Coe an outright Dominionist whose ideas would destroy the United States if not your world as you know it. it’s high time to stop using relision and piety as crutches or worse brickbats and stand on your own two feet.
But that begs a question don’t it?
Can you?
21. Christian Wright | March 16th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
You guys have been saying for months that Obama was a covert Muslim, so if you believe what you were saying was true, why do you think a Christian minister would have any kind of influence over him?
22. Fredrick Schwartz | March 16th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
FmrMarine,
I’d cut all their tax exempt status and let em all inot the political debate full bore.
Who wouldn’t want to see Hagee and Wright in a heated presidential debate where the gloves were actually off? Oh that’s right those guys on Wall Street would be going insane because the real religion of America is capitalism.
Let the people decide if they want religious authority in America and you know what I can tell you what the outcome of an American Theocracy would be no matter what church was at the head because there are only three outcomes.
23. Christian Wright | March 16th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Deleted - off topic.
24. Mark Noonan | March 16th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
steveGA,
I know you want very much to believe I do those things you list, but the plain fact of the matter is that I don’t…it is only in your divorced-from-reality-world where I do those things.
25. Carlton Pryor, Lead Economist, TED-OG | March 16th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Deleted - off topic.
26. Mark Noonan | March 16th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
lib,
“Single biggest buffoon” is a subjective judgement - and so your comment is entirely worthless given the fact that we are discussing the objective fact that Obama sat for 20 years in Wright’s church and now says he never heard any of the bad things…
27. kimberly4bush | March 16th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
WTF, Diane?
She spouts ignorantly … “9/11? It was about time that the US was frightened even if for a moment about what its foreign policy means to the rest of Terra.”
Thank you for revealing your true beliefs. I dare you to say that IDIOTIC statement to the families who lost loved ones on 9/11.
28. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
So what if Obama lied and knew everyting about his pastor and actually took it all to heart. What can the chief executive really do to the US to kill it? Oh that’s right look at what Bush has done with his executive power. NO WONDER YOU GUYS ARE SCARED!
29. Mark Noonan | March 16th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Fredrick,
That is a slander for you to say that Rev. Graham is an anti-Semite of that nature…and even if he were, it is irrelevant to this discussion…
1984 - 2000. 16 years. 2008 - 2008. 0 years. At worst GW was 16 years away from anti-Semitic comments, at best Obama is a week or two away from racist, anti-American comments.
30. kimberly4bush | March 16th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Excellent post, Almiranta … as usual!
31. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Arrange a meeting, I’d be delighted.
32. Fredrick Schwartz | March 16th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
So Marko,
If Obama were veep for eight years the “conditioning” from Rev Wright might have worn off?
33. Mark Noonan | March 16th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Diane,
Please don’t comment here any more. You are embarrassing yourself.
34. kimberly4bush | March 16th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
“So what if Obama lied and knew everyting about his pastor and actually took it all to heart.”
Another ignorant post by Diane “I am so bright and you are an idiot” Tomlinson.
Yeah, so what if he hates whites and hates America. If one more lib says that they DO SO love America, I’m gonna puke. Look at Diane. She doesn’t care if Obama listened to the hate speech for over 20 years. Maybe, it’s because she agrees with it???
35. Mark Noonan | March 16th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Fredrick,
No, not at all - given what we now know of Wright coupled with the fact that Obama absorbed this for 20 years and never realised what a lunatic Wright is, my view is that Obama lacks the judgement to be President.
36. Pain | March 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
The Graham apology too many years too late and some of his recorded statement to President Nixon.
37. kimberly4bush | March 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
No kidding, Mark!!
Arrange a meeting with the families of 9/11 for you to spout your hatred and ignorance. I’d be delighted! Bring your straight jacket with ya.
38. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
I still don’t see your point kimberly. Hating whites and pointing out that white people have committed crimes in history to maintain wealth and power are only the same things in the mind of a racist. I am bright enough to know that all nation states pass into the ash heap of history at some time because of poor decisions of policy. I am not saying Bush is corrupt but he has a streak of incompetency that can’t be ignored.
Lacks the judgment to be president??? mark are you serious??? (Ed. Note: Slander of President Bush removed - if repeated without first providing stand-up-in-court proof of accusation, commenter will be banned)?
Please let’s really debate this if you want input if you just want to play the shill for a few bucks before your audience that’s cool too. But please don’t insult the collective intelligence of the American people with that you cheapen all the chips you have in the game that way.
39. Fredrick Schwartz | March 16th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Awww Mark you finally wentt there.
I see Obama “lacks the judgment” to be President of white America. Wow this must be what Romans felt like when Nero fiddled.
40. kimberly4bush | March 16th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
I beg to differ, Diane. I do not believe you are bright. I DO believe you are an ignorant, blinded by hatred of Bush, it’s okay to hate America, liberal. It’s not an insult, it’s my opinion.
41. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I have no dog in this fight so i do not hate AMerica i hate the direction that a nation with this many nuclear weapons is going. Theocracy and all the things associated with it drive people like you to prove the Peter Principle with the lives of innocent folks like the 1 million killed in Iraq.
I don’t hate Bush either I just have the opinion he was the wrong man for the time. Gore was the wrong man too. The right man was Colin Powell. How about them apples?
42. FmrMarine | March 16th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
DT
The link on your name speaks volumes, it is hate filled, anti Christian, pornographic, and disgusting.
If it was aimed at muslems at best it would be shut down, at worst you would probably be beheaded.
Remember it was the DEMOCRATS
who WERE the KKK
It was democrat run states who were segregated
It was democrat governors who blocked school kids with dogs and armed police
It was democrats who owned slaves
It was democrats who did 99% of the lynchings
It was democrats who attempted to block the civil rights legislation
It was democrats who made blacks ride on the back of busses
It was democrats who turned fire hoses on black people.
NOW
It is democrats spewing the vilest racist hate filled garbage one could hear, let alone from the pulpit of lunatics as wright and fartacan.
These men are the ones earbama seeks council from…very troubling.
It was WHITE people IE Republican, Christians who were against all the above.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/knowing_obama_by_the_company_h_1.html
43. Almiranta | March 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Welcome back, Kimberly!
The radical Left has called Bush “dangerous” but has never been able to support that ridiculous claim other than to whine that he was in favor of things they were not.
But in fact, Bush has been a strong believer in America, has loved his country and been proud of it, has appointed Supreme Court justices who believe the Constitution is the law of the land and not “just a piece of paper”, has fought to defend this country against those who are intent on destroying it, and has tried to initiate the kinds of rational taxation which encourage economic growth for all.
He has made mistakes. Being a human being and all, he was expected to make mistakes. But his GOALS for the country have been honorable, and he has tried, to the best of his ability, to achieve those goals.
It is typical of the Left to call him “dangerous” because they either do not agree with those goals or because they think they can try to use his mistakes to damn him.
What would make Obama truly dangerous would be a belief that this is a vile, corrupt nation, a deep-seated hatred for this nation, and a desire to change it in ways that contradict the history of the country and its Constitution.
He has hinted at this with his mantra of “change”—to buy into that one must believe that this country is so failed, so bad, that any change in any direction is an improvement. To buy into that, one must have a bleak and pessimistic view of our nation, its people, and its future.
We have many enemies. We have seen them brag about their hatred for us, and we have seen some of them attack us and kill our own. Some have not yet attacked, not openly and physically, yet they preach the same hatred, and do so within our borders.
How can we even consider electing, to the position of President of the United States of America, to the postion of Commander in Chief, a man who has spent so much of his life in the bosom of a group which has preached almost exactly the same hatred of this country as have those who have actually gone so far as to attack it and kill its people?
The genial smile, the superficial good-guy persona, the riveting rhetoric when speaking from prepared speeches, the ability to stir masses into hysterical weeping swooning fervor, all appear to disguise the true heart of a man who found nothing wrong with the vile and hateful and anti-American teachings of a group he sought out, joined, and remained faithful to for more than two decades.
Attempts to smear others are a sad and pathetic, yet typical, Lefty ploy, but the issues at hand are the teachings of Obama’s church, the acceptance of those teachings by the congregation, and Obama’s choice first to join the church, then to remain in it and be a part of that congregation.
His wife, evidently less skilled at dissemination than Barack, gave us a peek into the influece of the Reverend Wright when she openly said she had never in her adult life found anything in this nation to be proud of —–until it considered her husband for the presidency.
Her adult life? How old is she? About 40? So she has been an adult for what, about 20 years? About the same amount of time she has been part of Wright’s church? Evidently SHE has absorbed and agreed with his teachings. Yet Barack wants us to believe he just didn’t know what was being taught?
44. kimberly4bush | March 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Diane, honey, you are a LIAR. Your web site tells us who you are … “anti-semitism, anti September 9/11thism, and the death throes of the delusion of church supported white racial supremacy in America”. So really, any comment from you regarding this issue should fall on deaf ears.
45. kimberly4bush | March 16th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Thanks, A … it’s been awhile. One thing is for sure, I have missed bantering with the resident neorads.
Someone get me some popcorn. I can’t wait to see what Diane “I HATE AMerica” Tomlinson has to say about your excellent post.
46. hermie | March 16th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Obama goes to this church for 20 years and somehow never, ever hears the Rev say one thing that anyone could consider as racist?
OK…Let’s that one slide by just for a sec…
Obama has been part of the corrupt political system in Chicago for over 20 years, and now only calls his extensive dealings with Tony Rezko a ‘lapse in judgement’. Now we are just learning that Obama is continually changing his story on just how involved with Rezko he was, and the figures as to how much he got from Tony are still being adjusted upwards.
Obama has gotten by because there are those in the MSM who can’t bear to risk being called ‘racist’, even though his experience is slim, his messages vague and his storys constantly chan
47. hermie | March 16th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Obama goes to this church for 20 years and somehow never, ever hears the Rev say one thing that anyone could consider as racist?
OK…Let’s that one slide by just for a sec…
Obama has been part of the corrupt political system in Chicago for over 20 years, and now only calls his extensive dealings with Tony Rezko a ‘lapse in judgement’. Now we are just learning that Obama is continually changing his story on just how involved with Rezko he was, and the figures as to how much he got from Tony are still being adjusted upwards.
Obama has gotten by because there are those in the MSM who can’t bear to risk being called ‘racist’, even though his experience is slim, his messages vague and his stories are constantly changing.
48. Almiranta | March 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
I was going to respond to Diane’s post, but it is just so much hate-driven claptrap that I don’t know where to start.
One thing the radical Left simply does not get, cannot comprehend, is that we do not start off from a position of emotion and then try to build some kind of rational, or psuedo-rational, case to support or defend our emotional conclusion.
That is the realm of the Left.
We do not start off HATING someone and then try to find, distort, or invent things to try to make that hatred seem more justiifed.
That is the realm of the Left.
So an objective, rational, discussion of the true philosophies and beliefs of a presidential candidate is totally different from the blind, hysterical, emotion-based, hate-driven mania the Left has about Bush.
Diane, being such an ardent fan of that same radical Left, and clearly such an example of the emotion-first approach of this cult, has to automatically assign her own pathology to others. Of course she does—this is HER reality, and she can’t conceive of any other.
But reality in the rest of the world demands that rational voters try to understand the goals, agendas, and philosophies of those running for the highest office in the land. You Lefties can just glom onto a great speaking syle, or react against the other guy based on who knows what kind of bizarre crap you have decided to accept. But the rest of us prefer to look at the life, influences, and real goals and beliefs of those in the running.
A waste of words—Diane and her ilk are simply incapable of understanding any approach to life other than their own.
49. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Fmrmarine,
Absolutely correct on each and everyone of those points about the segreated South. And what happened when Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act? Each and every one of those men in Congress beat feet for the GOP. The full evidence wasn’t realized until the mid 70s when the GOP decided that a Southern Strategy was still a viable option if it included a politically energized religious right wing.
Democrat’s a lable white folk in the South were always Right or Far Right in politics not Democrat in the sense of liberal or even Liberal. Republicans of the Alf Landon and Thomas Dewey dint were cnter right at best. They don’t teach this stuff in homeschools do they?
50. Dexter | March 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Seriously, people… get a trip. NO ONE cares about Rev. Wright’s racist hate. Wright isn’t running for President, the fact he endorsed Obama is irrelevant.
What DOES matter is that ***Obama was mentored by Wright.*** Now, Obama may not really be a racist. But his endorsement of Wright shows that he clearly has very poor judgment and it not this great “Messiah” that the DNC proclaims him to be. I can’t stand the Clintons but I would actually feel safer with Hillary in the White House than this naive Chicago dimwit.
51. Darva Conger | March 16th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Oh please.
What this site and Faux News is trying to do by highlighting the Rev. Wright video does is ratchet up WHITE fear.
Pure and simple. They have an unpopular war and an economy going in the toilet, but they have this crazy ass pastor to yell about.
But next week this might become a back page story if the economy continues to tank. Imagine Faux News covering this all day, while the DOW is dropping hundreds of points (maybe crashing).
Money is religion to many Americans and when push comes to shove, people could not care less about some preacher’s sermon when they are about to lose their job or home!
52. Almiranta | March 16th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Fred, I just can’t let your slander of Post # 20 go unanswered.
Right before his 40th birthday, George W. Bush acknowledged that he was drinking too much. His life was not “..spiralling out of control due to drugs and alcohol…”
The rabid radical hate-driven Left has glommed onto a fantasy about Bush’s alleged drug use. Based on what? On the fact that during the drug-raddled 60’s and 70’s he was a well-to-do good-looking guy who could have afforded to do drugs if he wanted to. One anonymous person claimed to have seen him use cocaine, one time. Upon this beyond-flimsy basis, the Left has constructed an entire identity for Bush which simply bears no resemblance to truth.
I’ve seen, right here on this blog, claims that he was a “drug addict” and a “drug dealer”….based on the non-evidence cited above.
People who knew him during his ANG days said they never saw him drunk, or take even one drink when he was at a gathering while he was on call for possible flight duty. None of them ever saw him use drugs. As a young man, he never had the reputation as a playboy.
On one occassion, he and some friends were out for the night, and all of them had too much to drink. Bush, having had the least, felt he was in the best shape to drive home. He was stopped, for driving too slowly, admitted to having been drinking, got a ticket, went to court, pled guilty, and served his sentence, never playing the “Do you know who my father is” game.
As an adult, he would go out with his buddies and they would all drink too much. I have seen interviews with these men, who said that while they all had a good time, they never saw Bush seriously drunk or remotely out of control.
But Bush decided it was time to stop, and on his 40th birthday, at a gathering at the Broadmoor Hotel in Colorado Springs, Colorado, he announced that that night would be the last night he would drink.
Maybe he discussed this with a spiritual advisor, maybe not.
But it is a typical Lefty spin on reality to claim “his life was spiralling out of control …” at all, and then to claim drugs played a part.
It is not only a lie, it is hypocritical to the max. If Fred was equally outraged when Roger Clinton was caught on an FBI tape telling a drug supplier he needed more cocaine because his brother, the President, was “a Hoover” when it came to coke, then he might have some status as judgmental nanny concerned that Bush may have used drugs. But I’m betting he wasn’t—or wasn’t upset to learn that both of the Gores, Al and Tipper, got through his year in Viet Nam by staying stoned.
You guys lie, and you are totally hypocritical. No wonder you have no credibilty. How about addressing some issues for a change?
Such as whether or not you would vote for a man who belonged, for two decades, to an openly anti-American group which preached hatred of this country and of whites?
That’s an issue, and I think you know it—why else would you be so frantic to try to dig up some old psuedo-scandal to try to divert attention away from your anointed one?
53. Canadian Observer | March 16th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
50. Dexter | March 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Seriously, people… get a trip. NO ONE cares about Rev. Wright’s racist hate. Wright isn’t running for President, the fact he endorsed Obama is irrelevant.
——————————————-
Exactly, Dexter. The amount of hysteria this story has elicited from the kool-aid drinkers is extraordinary. Almiranta, FmrMarine, Kimberly4bush?? (perhaps it’s time for a change of name; how about Kimberly4Victory?)
are beside themselves in their effort to distract, and to distort the facts. You can smell their fear, their anguish, their terror, that change is coming and their heroes are finished.
The damage inflicted on the American people by the Bush regime will end with the 2008 election but the residue will be hard to clean up. Let’s hope the new administration will be up to the task.
54. Tractatus | March 16th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Why bother to explain to purposefully ignorant and selectively blind Libs? Theirs is a knee-jerk reaction: Lib=Good, Conservative=Bad.
Switch around the “good” and “bad” and you just described Mark Noonan. You were aware of that, weren’t you, ‘Ranty? By the way, “has to automatically assign her own pathology to others” is just classic form for you, offering a self-description and pretending that you’re describing others.
Always a joy when you insist that it’s everybody else but you who is disconnected from reality, Noonan. Also funny to see you all of a sudden very, very concerned about the religious influence on a candidate. I guess it only matters when it’s not your guy, huh?
By the way, are you seriously telling steveGA that you didn’t predict major GOP gains in the 2006 elections? Seriously, Mark? You predicted them, ran your usual “lefties are disconnected from reality” spiel, and then were utterly wrong. And we all laughed at you. Suppressed that memory, have you?
55. Almiranta | March 16th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Diane claims that she doesn’t “hate” Bush but in the next paragraph writes this vile drivel: (Ed. Note: vile drivel deleted as it is a repetition of a slanderous attack on President Bush).
What utter crap. And what utter hate. Bush beat a very popular incumbent governor, one no one thought could be beat, yet everyone in the state “knew” he was, blah blah blah….
And Darva has to chime in with even more Liberal gibberish….let’s see, she falls back on the delusion that the term “Faux News” is either funny or relevant, she regurgitates the beloved ‘fear-mongering’ meme the radicals have latched onto recently (though, delusional as usual, she gets it completely backwards, as it is the black church trying to stir up fear of whites, not the other way around…) and she just generally blathers on about nothing.
Oh, yeah, “money is religion”. Which must be why the Left is so determined to get their grubby mitts on as much of it as possible, even if it means taking it away from those who have earned it.
Yet neither Diane nor Darva can bother to address the issue of the thread, which is that Senator Barack Obama sought out, joined, attended, and participated in services which were ostensibly religious in nature but which clearly consisted to a great degree of indoctrination in anti-American rhetoric and which preached hatred of and distrust of whites.
THAT’S the thread, D’s—not the regurgitation of stale old lies about other people, not the attempt to paint other ministers with the same brush, none of your typical knee-jerk reactionary nonsense.
Did Barack Obama join this church?
Did he hear these sermons?
Was he aware of the overwhelming anti-white and anti-American sentiment of this pastor and his congregation?
Did he agree with any of this?
Did he object to any of it?
Did he participate in any of it?
Did he leave to find a more reasonable church?
Did he accept the teachings of hatred as being the teachings of Christ?
Are any of his current attitudes and beliefs about this country formed or even influenced by his two decades of exposure to and participation in this church?
Is it reasonable to want to know if a man harbors hatred for the country he says he wants to lead, and/or for the majority of its citizens?
Can a man willingly participate in a church which preaches racism, preaches hatred of white people, without being at least to some degree a racist?
Do we want a racist as our President?
These are all questions relevant to the thread. And evidently threatening to the radicals who seem so determined to talk about absolutely ANYTHING else.
56. Jeremiah | March 16th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Money is religion to many Americans–Darva Conger
And is precisely the problem with too many in America. Just ask George Soros.
Darva,
On the same note, how can God bless a Nation when all they are concerned about is what’s in their pocket? God is more concerned about what is in their heart.
Diane Tomlinson,
It seems really funny that you would comment on this when it was people of your kind who massacred tens of thousands while the British Quakers, Methodists, and evangelical Anglicans were waging a camgaign to purge the evil of slavery from Europe and the European colonies.
The most common argument I hear coming from you leftists is that the Bible “justified” slavery in an attempt to destroy the credibility of Christianity and the Gospels…but I wholly denounce those claims…All one has to do is read the writings of the well known Christian writers of old…such as Reverend George B. Cheever’s in 1857…
The convicitions in the hearts of Christians was that slavery was “evil.” And so, it was ended!
Today, black people see more freedom than white people….yet, to many, like Rev. Wright, they want to use it for the purpose for a supremacy black power….and he would do it through Barack Obama.
Shame!
–Jeremiah–
57. Michael | March 16th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
It is truly amusing to watch the efforts of lefties in their attempts to minimize the impact of the Obama-Wright connection.
In lines of “logic” that only a lefty can buy into, we hear that Wright has a right to say anything he wants to say. Well, that’s correct. Then they say that although Obama praises Wright, calls him his spiritual adviser, donates tens of thousands of dollars to the church every year, and even puts him on his campaign team that twenty years of hate speech won’t influence his attitude and intentions should he win the presidency. Right. Obama’s “rejection” of Wright was not one at all but rather a cherry-picking refutation of remarks he claimed he never heard while maintaining the guy’s a good guy. After round-the-clock airing of excerpts from Wright’s preaching via videos, Obama finally is required to kick him off his staff. You have to know that had to hurt Obama’s feelings. And our lefties would all say it was an unnecessary move forced on him by unfriendly media coverage. Sure. Whatever. Whenever all those attempts at rationalization are ridiculed, the next attempt is to dredge up some other example, no matter how true or relevant of similar behavior by republicans - extra points if it is about Boooosh. After those weak whiffs are batted down, they try to change the subject to the economy, the war, the price of tea in China, whatever. They are only trying to support Obama and are behaving just like he is in this mess.
The same is true about the Rezko deal. Every few days we hear, sometimes from Barack Hussein Obama himself that more and more connections existed and he got more money that previously claimed.
The man of Hope turns out to be no better than the Man from Hope - Ol’ Slick. Now the woman from Hope will exploit the fissure in the party and Obama’s skid downward and walk away with the nomination. And of course the party will blow up with charges of racism flying. Maybe Wright will come out of retirement to preach a special sermon on it.
58. Canadian Observer | March 16th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
On one occassion,(sic) he and some friends were out for the night, and all of them had too much to drink
52. Almiranta | March 16th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Even today, Almiranta, when he, as leader of the free world, attempts to give a speech, he appears to have had too much to drink. How else do you explain his slurred speech and his inability to string together two coherent words?
To those who are not delusional, Bush is either drunk or missing more than a few grey cells. Either way, he is not the brightest nor the best America has to offer. You can and will do better.
59. Canadian Observer | March 16th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Today, black people see more freedom than white people
56. Jeremiah | March 16th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Please elucidate, Jeremiah.
60. Michael | March 16th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Over at LGF, they noticed this:
Hmmmm….
61. Fredrick Schwartz | March 16th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
52. Almiranta | March 16th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
“Such as whether or not you would vote for a man who belonged, for two decades, to an openly anti-American group which preached hatred of this country and of whites?”
No. Next question.
62. FmrMarine | March 16th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
CO
>>>>Bush is either drunk or missing more than a few grey cells. Either way, he is not the brightest nor the best America has to offer. You can and will do better.<<<<
Lets see W =
Graduate HARVARD
Graduate YALE …MBA
Navy OFFICER
Jet fighter PILOT
Governor 2 terms
Owner prof baseball team
Owner Oil co
POTUS ……TWO TERMS
yeah a real dummy!
now treadeau ?
canada?
montreal?
and the democrats
the wife of a disgraced impeached, president. The never employed, 1 term us senator,
OR
a “community activist” ONE term state legislator, 2 years US Senate,
Close friend, member of a racist hateful cult.
You should stay in kanada and, involve yourself with their moonbat politics, cause you sure know NOTHING about ours.
63. kimberly4victory | March 16th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Since none of our resident liberals will answer Almiranta’s questions, I will:
Did Barack Obama join this church? YES
Did he hear these sermons? YES. Although he states that he did not hear these sermons. Hrumph.
Was he aware of the overwhelming anti-white and anti-American sentiment of this pastor and his congregation? YES. Does a bear poop in the woods?
Did he agree with any of this? YES. If he didn’t, he would have left the church a long time ago.
Did he object to any of it? NO. If he did, see answer above.
Did he participate in any of it? YES. After all, he was a member of this church for over 20 years. If he didn’t say “Amen” after one of the hate speeches, he certainly did participate by donating money to the church.
Did he leave to find a more reasonable church? NOPE.
Did he accept the teachings of hatred as being the teachings of Christ? UNFORTUNATELY, YES.
Are any of his current attitudes and beliefs about this country formed or even influenced by his two decades of exposure to and participation in this church? YES. Obama is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Is it reasonable to want to know if a man harbors hatred for the country he says he wants to lead, and/or for the majority of its citizens? OF COURSE. If the shoe were on McCain’s foot, the liberals would be demanding to know more.
Can a man willingly participate in a church which preaches racism, preaches hatred of white people, without being at least to some degree a racist? HARD TO BELIEVE IT WOULD NOT HAVE SOME EFFECT ON HIM.
Do we want a racist as our President? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
64. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
55. Almiranta | March 16th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
“Yet neither Diane nor Darva can bother to address the issue of the thread, which is that Senator Barack Obama sought out, joined, attended, and participated in services which were ostensibly religious in nature but which clearly consisted to a great degree of indoctrination in anti-American rhetoric and which preached hatred of and distrust of whites.”
You can therow aout the anti-American part it’s the anti white part that scares the holy Hell out of you. This whole thing is code and as transparent as white flight from Detroit in the 70s and 80s. You are afraid that this man might win and that is real terror for you right in your own front yard as Reverend Wright would say.
You live in nation that was robbed of Bobby Kennedy it’s not your fault that the bad guys won. Well, then again yes it is. You wanted reagan and falwell and all the religious claptrap. That’s more important to you than liberty or freedom now. All you can see is that you have an open license to kill abroad in the name of democracy and all you are doing is feeding the enemy that at best you will achieve a draw with even if you fight their tactics for another thousand years.
And jeremiah I have no idea what you mean by my kind I was a Methodist for many years now I’m a Realist.
65. Pain | March 16th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Did Barack Obama join this church?
Yes.
Did he hear these sermons?
All of Our sources say not all but some live and all after the fact.
Was he aware of the overwhelming anti-white and anti-American sentiment of this pastor and his congregation?
Yes.
Did he agree with any of this?
Some yes, but not all.
Did he object to any of it?
Some yes, but not all.
Did he participate in any of it?
Some yes, but not all.
Did he leave to find a more reasonable church?
No. Barack Obama found the church to his liking.
Did he accept the teachings of hatred as being the teachings of Christ?
No, no more than the members of the Thomas Road Baptist Church did.
Are any of his current attitudes and beliefs about this country formed or even influenced by his two decades of exposure to and participation in this church?
Some.
Is it reasonable to want to know if a man harbors hatred for the country he says he wants to lead, and/or for the majority of its citizens?
Certainly.
Can a man willingly participate in a church which preaches racism, preaches hatred of white people, without being at least to some degree a racist?
No. See reagan any member of the GOp who has spoken at Bob Jones University, Liberty or Oral Roberts University.
Do we want a racist as our President?
As We are not American define “we.” If “we” is defined as white middle class suburbanites fearful of chnage then if the candidate is a white male then certainly.
These are all questions relevant to the thread. And evidently threatening to the radicals who seem so determined to talk about absolutely ANYTHING else.
And for that reason We have aswered with all the data available to Us.
Qu’ul cuda praedex nihil!
66. William Teach | March 16th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
The liberals will be able to ignore this issue, but, I do not think they have realized what impact it will have on the middle ground voters come November. Hopefully, the RNC will have the cajones to keep bringing the issue up once it is Obama vs McCain.
67. phil | March 16th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Deleted - mindless insults.
68. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
William Teach,
It seems to me there are plenty of Liberals answering questions right here. I hate polls personally but you’ve got to admit the polls swirling around the November elections don’t look good for the GOP.
Meanwhile enjoy the next 18 months of stagflation brought to you by the Bush administration!
69. William Teach | March 16th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Actually, Diane, the latest Zogby poll has McCain beating both Obama and Clinton.
Cheers!
Pray tell, explain exactly how Bush is responsible for the “stagflation.”
70. Jeremiah | March 16th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
And jeremiah I have no idea what you mean by my kind I was a Methodist for many years now I’m a Realist.
Diane Tomlinson,
Yes. Your kind, Atheists.
The same kind of people, like you, killed tens of thousands following the French Revolution.
I feel sorry for you, Diane. You may have went to a church of Methodist denomination, but you’ve never had a desire to serve the Lord, and your soul is now in jeopardy.
–Jeremiah–
71. Michael | March 16th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Obama’s church issued the following as part of their blurb on their reaction to the Obama-Wright flap:
preached a social gospel? God Damn America is social gospel? We deserved 9/11 is social gospel. The repeated rants against white people is social gospel? Looks to me that Wright assassinated his own character with his hateful words. Since the church has chosen to support Wright, Barack Obama better start looking for another church.
72. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Jeremiah,
Ahh yes the “control” voice of unashamed Christian nuttery. If you knew me you would know I’m beyond where all of that nonsense matters and just trying to do better here in the Afterlife than most of you do in the First Life. Unfortunately, you have to be listening to hear.
73. Jeremiah | March 16th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Harry S. Truman.
–Jeremiah–
74. Jeremiah | March 16th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
If you knew me you
Diane Tomlinson,
I only want to know Jesus…and want the same for you. For there, is life everlasting.
–Jeremiah–
75. William Teach | March 16th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Still waiting on how Bush is responsible for the “stagflation,” Diane. Or wasn’t that covered in Dean’s talking points email today beyond a quick blame sentence?
76. Diane Tomlinson | March 16th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Well let a gal eat her supper William Teach.
It’s like this Bernanke is a Bush appointee and he’s constantly seeking to aid the markets. After the Societe generale panic bernamnke made one cut too deep. What’s the down side of curtting interest rates? You increase inflation. Bush wants the markets to rise and growth at all costs and like most rich folk sees the stock markets as the only source of wealth.
Well working folk would tell you they are having the crap kicked out of their wallets by headline inflation. but that doesn’t matter because the Bush economic policy is about keeping the Down above 10 000 not about controlling infation. And yes I know the Fed is independent of the administration in theory.
77. Darva Conger | March 16th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Teach:
“Still waiting on how Bush is responsible for the “stagflation,” Diane.”
Yep standard Bush-backer double talk. For six years they claim the economy is going great due to the great leadership of GWB. Now that it has gone to hell they ask how Bush could be held responsible.
78. Darva Conger | March 16th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Robertson and Falwell said after 9/11 that it was the fault of gays and abortionists.
Wright said we’re to blame, because of our foreign policy.
79. Mark Noonan | March 16th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Darva,
True - but neither Robertson nor Falwell have been John McCain’s pastor for the past 20 years…
80. kimberly4victory | March 16th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Help! I’m getting dizzy from all the spin coming from the neorads!
As far as I’m concerned, both Wright and Falwell are dead wrong. Americans are not to blame. The murdering scumball Islamic extremists are to blame.
How nice to compare Wright with Martin Luther King … I don’t recall King ever staying God Damn America. Wright may want to be a Martin Luther King but I’ve got news for him … he ain’t.
81. bagni | March 16th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
markachuchlady;
sorry
we didn’t think the “equal” signs we used
would cause this ruckus
funny…..
the planetary politicos used to think your earthly election would be won by whoever positioned themselves as the most honest or ethical
but alas…..we were wrong
after reading your 80 posts
we now believe the loser of your nov voting
will be the candidate who is positioned as the most evil by the other party
82. Almiranta | March 16th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Pain, you skirted around honesty for a while, and I was proud of you for trying. Of course, you fell apart at the end, first trying to conflate speaking at a school identified by the Left as racist with attending and supporting a racist church for two decades, and then with this gibberish: “If “we” is defined as white middle class suburbanites fearful of chnage then if the candidate is a white male then certainly. ”
The question was, do we want a racist as president? Whatever you said, it wasn’t much of an answer.
Note how you simply could not avoid veering off into radical goofiness, trying to make the case that only “white middle class suburbanites fearful of chnage (sic)” would object to having a racist in the White House. That’s just plain dumb. And racist and classist.
(You do realize that the proportion of blacks to whites at Bob Jones University was far larger than that of blacks to whites on, for example, Al Franken’s staff, don’t you? Let’s hear you condemn all who appeared on Al’s show,or supported him here, or who plan to vote for him —all 3 of them—as racists, shall we?)
Diane, you can wallow in self-hatred (if you are white) or racial hatred (if you are not) and I really don’t care. Everything I have been able to learn about you says, very clearly, that hate is your defining motive for pretty much everything, and that shows through in your diatribes and accusations. Give it a rest.
But your racist claims of “codes” and so on are simply additional proofs of your irrational paranoia. There is no “code” you silly twit. A man says he hates whites, he really means he hates whites. People say they are offended by this kind of racism, they are really offended by this kind of racism. Duh.
I “live in a nation that was robbed of Bobby Kennedy”. Yeah, and I live in a nation that was robbed of Marilyn Monroe, too.
You just don’t make sense, Diane, except to others who harbor grudges and carry around chips on their shoulders the size of a Paul Bunyon log.
CO, go to Texas. You will see plenty of men who talk just like Bush. Ditto for Oklahoma and Wyoming and all points West. No doubt you are far more at home with the pretentious pomposity of Kerry (can we all say JEHN-JISS KAHN, kiddies?) You get to do that. You get to be smug, judgmental, and pompous, and to sneer at those who fail to meet your standards of elocution. You like to pretend he looks and sounds drunk. Fine. Pretend away. You write like you’ve got brain damage, but that doesn’t mean you have to wear a funny plastic helmet. It’s just my own impression of you.
Tract is just itching for a fight, but has nothing to bring to the table but a bunch of “So’s your old man…” level of feeble insults. Never an idea, just a bunch of wimpy whining…….
Tract, why not get over your personal animosity toward me, stop changing your name so you can attack me under more than one, and try paying attention to the issues for a change? With you it’s always just the same old same old—and it was boring the first time around.
83. Almiranta | March 16th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Falwell, et al, did not (so far as I remember) say we “deserved” to be slaughtered on 9/11. They did point out, very rightly, that our slide off into the leftist ideals that include public nudity, abortion, promiscuity, flagrant homosexual behavior, and so on, all contribute to the erosion of respect for America, and to the loathing of those whose religious values abhor such behaviors.
And please give it a rest, Lefties, about how all the conservatives think about is money, about the “rich” and Wall Street, and all the rest of your ridiculous socialist cant. Your bizarre class envy and resentment of those who are more productive and successful than you is palpable, and your efforts to spin your surly resentments into something noble are pathetic.
If we gave a damn about your radical Lefty theories and fantasies, we’d head on over to Loonyville and read it for ourselves.
Darva, you’ve never even been close to being close. Wright did not just blame our “foreign policiy”. He blamed us for being evil, for being the most murderous nation on Earth (the janjaweed are so depressed to find out how far behind they are) and he had a whole litany of reasons this nation is just so darned vile and evil it SHOULD be attacked—-or damned by God.
But you go ahead and defend him, Darva, and all he stands for. Because we can listen, and we can read, and we KNOW what he stands for—and by extension, what you stand for as well, given your defense of him and his rhetoric.
84. Darva Conger | March 17th, 2008 at 12:09 am
“Falwell, et al, did not (so far as I remember) say we ?deserved? to be slaughtered on 9/11.”
Alm:
It really doesn’t matter what you “remember” because the truth is the truth.
“What we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact, God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.”
–Jerry Falwell
9/13/01
85. Jeremiah | March 17th, 2008 at 12:13 am
Interesting…this bit…
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/flashback-nyt-on-obamas-wright-disinvite
–Jeremiah–
86. rubbersoul | March 17th, 2008 at 1:01 am
From Crooks And Liars….
“In contextualizing Jeremiah Wright’s “God damn America,” it might be worth remembering another Jeremiah who expressed similar sentiments: namely, Jeremiah. As in, the prophet of the Hebrew Bible, or the “Old Testament,” if you prefer.
Why does that matter? Because it reminds us that a core function of one who attempts to speak in a prophetic voice is to remind us that we are in this together and that we’ll both prosper and suffer together. Many evangelical Christians speak of a “gift of discernment,” not unlike the “gift of tongues.” Us democratically-minded folk might do well to remember that that core concept of a democracy is that we all have some gift of discernment. So let’s use ours and consider the prophetic statements on offer:
1. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson said America is damned — cursed by God, though not permanently — because we tolerate feminists and queer people.
2. John Hagee says America is damned — cursed by God, though not permanently — because we tolerate Muslims.
3. Jeremiah Wright says America is damned — cursed by God, though not permanently, suffering from hate and division, from bitterness and envy — because we succumb to hating one another.
For my money, my Bible, and my democracy, that last sentiment has the ring of truth, and I’m not even a religious man.
That doesn’t mean it’s a sentiment for a campaign trail. But it does mean that in framing this, we might want to turn our anger toward Fox and the NY Post and all those denouncing Jeremiah Wright rather than the man who says we suffer because of racism. Here is a pastor trying, perhaps not successfully, to preach accountability for hate, not for tolerance. And here is a media that is demanding that we NOT be held accountable for hate.
That is, mainstream media is telling us we must tolerate hate — Hagee — but not those who don’t believe we should tolerate hate — Wright.
Jeremiah Wright’s words were harsh, as were Jeremiah’s. As were Martin Luther King’s — “I have a dream” wasn’t his only speech, and he died holding America accountable for the war in Vietnam and the war against the poor at home. That’s not left, that’s not right, that’s not “racial,” that’s not “post-racial.” It’s prophetic. The Right’s screeching, meanwhile, is simply pathetic.”
-Jeff Sharlet
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/16/remembering-another-jeremiah/
87. Mark Noonan | March 17th, 2008 at 1:47 am
rubbersoul,
Nice try - but Hagee, Falwell and Robertson were not McCain’s pastor for 20 years, so the analogy is not just wrong, but extraordinarily wrong.
Outside that…
Wright isn’t holding up America to America’s standards, as MLK did, but condemning America as an idea - in Wright’s preaching, there isn’t a possible redemption for America short of a revolutionary overturning of the American system. This is something one is free to believe in, but it is not something legitimate for a Presidential candidate to believe in.
88. rubbersoul | March 17th, 2008 at 1:51 am
“This is something one is free to believe in, but it is not something legitimate for a Presidential candidate to believe in.”
Is Wright running for president?
89. Mark Noonan | March 17th, 2008 at 2:00 am
rubbersoul,
No, but Wright’s disciple, Obama, is…and we have a right to know exactly how much of Wright’s theology Obama subscribes to.
Hey, I’m Catholic - and if I were to run for office, I’d easily tell you how much of Our Lord’s teachings I believe in: 100%
So, fair is fair - Obama needs to tell us.
90. rubbersoul | March 17th, 2008 at 2:11 am
I believe Wright is Obama’s former pastor, not Obama’s master. Are you a disciple of you’re priest?
How much of you’re priests theology do you believe in?
91. js | March 17th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Its a sickening thing.
The liberals would be all over it if conservatives supported David Duke for President. Of course, they really should, too. The guys a hard core racist.
What made them even consider supporting a radical black activist…thats corrupt as the worst in DC as it is? And if Rezko and racial dispolarity isnt enough, then we have to deal with his brother in Kenya, the Orthodox Muslim whose goal Obama supports, to overturn a rightly elected democratic government, and install Sharia over the entire nation.
So if Obama runs and hides, it doesnt matter. If he quit’s the church he has attended for 20 years, it doesnt matter. If he returns all the money he recieved from Rezco and affiliated, it doesnt matter. If he retracts his support from his family in Kenya, it does NOT matter.
We see who Obama truely is in these things. Not what happened to him, but what he did, how he feels, and where his compass is. His loyalties are NOT for a United States of America, but towards a Black supremacist ideology. His record should be criminal, and not political, and his choices to support his Islamic Heritage, by supporting his families efforts in Kenya to overturn a legitimate government in favor of installing Islamic laws prove that he is NOT a Christian or material for the Office of the President of the United States.
92. phnx | March 17th, 2008 at 8:39 am
More troubling than either Rezko or Wright is Obama’s relationship with a hard core communist that Obama called his mentor.
Obama had an admitted relationship with Frank Marshall Davis, who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his “poetry” and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just “Frank.”
The reason is apparent: Davis was a known communist who belonged to a party subservient to the Soviet Union. In fact, the 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities to the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii identified him as a CPUSA member. What’s more, anti-communist congressional committees, including the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), accused Davis of involvement in several communist-front organizations.
Once the voting public is fully apprised of all of these questionable relationships in his past and present, he will be rejected.
93. bagni | March 17th, 2008 at 10:48 am
markhagee
building on your lunar logic
obama, 20 yrs, once a week=1040 days of wright programming
mccain, 6 yrs of communist p.o.w. camp where he broke down = 2190 days of mc’churian programming
cosmically confused…shouldn’t you be more afraid of mccain’s reprogramming than obama’s?
94. phnx | March 17th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
It is now being reported that only 8% of voters polled have a favorable opinion of Pastor Wright. Not a good sign for Obama.
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