40 Comments

• 1. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J.  |  March 26th, 2008 at 8:30 am

  I will strive to keep my staff to the adherence of these rules and if there are any problems feel free to e mail at your leisure.

  Qu’ul cuda praedex nihil!

  Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J., J.F.
  Editor in Chief
  The Dis Brimstone-Daily Pitchfork

• 2. Retired Spook  |  March 26th, 2008 at 8:32 am

  I’ll have to admit, I’ve been AWOL lately, partly because of what you describe in this post, but mostly because I’ve just been busy with other things. You guys do a great job, and the discourse here, even at its worst, is still better than on many other similar type forums. I suspect that’s why many of the Lefties come here — because they know they can get away with rattling the cages of those with whom they have fundamental philosophical and political disagreements. The problem is that they ran out of new material about 3 years ago.

  I think one of the problems of late is that the Democrat primary race is turning out to be such a nasty, bitter, knockdown-drag out fight. I haven’t seen such battle lines drawn within a party since 1968. I’m sure there are a lot of frustrated Dems out there, many of whom say publicly (and here anonymously) that they’ll vote for whomever is left standing. but, in reality, they know deep down that that’s just not true for a significant number within their party. Six weeks ago they thought that would be balanced out by a significant number within the GOP who couldn’t or wouldn’t vote for McCain. Now that the vast majority or Republicans seem to be coalescing behind McCain, I suspect quite a few are getting a tad worried. I have to say — I don’t blame them. If I were a Dem, I’d be worried too.

• 3. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J.  |  March 26th, 2008 at 8:40 am

  One thing is certain that in the coming times Americans better choose the right person to lead them. No matter how bad economic conditions or even physical ones become they can and will be compounded by poor leadership no matter which party that incompetence comes from.

• 4. FoolYouTwice  |  March 26th, 2008 at 8:49 am

  Just make sure to apply your comment rules consistently and not only towards one side of the political spectrum. I know you have never done this in the past, but maybe you are wise enough now to realize that this is your main problem. When you allow your fellow conservatives to be nasty and post ridiculous things it only encourages this behaviour from everyone. Only deleting posts from people you deem to be liberal will always guarantee your blog turns into a crap heap.

  Sppok, the dems still have way more things in their favor than the republicans do.

• 5. Joe  |  March 26th, 2008 at 9:03 am

  I can honestly say I have never seen a rightie get their comments deleted. But that is ok. I’ll obey the rules and let’s see what happens.

• 6. sam  |  March 26th, 2008 at 9:03 am

  very true FoolYouTwice, but Mark is not objective and never has been. He is just that kind of person.

• 7. Joel  |  March 26th, 2008 at 9:08 am

  Fool

  As far as I can tell the Dems have nothing in their favor. One hopeful can’t tell the truth and the other hates America.

• 8. lib  |  March 26th, 2008 at 9:17 am

  we will see what happens I guess. The amount of vitriol that is tolerated from those that Mark and Matt happen to agree with is quite extreme - think Keefer for example who routinely calls people “failed abortions” because he happens to disagree with their politics. I would be very interested to see if you can live up to your purported christian values

• 9. Retired Spook  |  March 26th, 2008 at 9:18 am

  Spook, the dems still have way more things in their favor than the republicans do.

  FYT, that may well be true in Congressional and Senate races, but I think you’re in for a rude shock as far as the White House is concerned come November. And I actually don’t think a Republican President and a Democrat-controlled Congress is a bad thing. Democrats proved in the early 90’s that absolute power corrupts absolutely, getting booted out en masse in 1994, and darned if the Republicans didn’t turn around a prove exactly the same thing after a few short years controlling all the levers. I think the electorate, in general, is a lot smarter than most politicians give them credit for.

• 10. FoolYouTwice  |  March 26th, 2008 at 9:26 am

  Joe, didn’t you get the message from Mark? You have been banned.

  I must assume that Matt and Mark are not smart enough to realize that applying their rules on comments to only people they dislike because of political opinions will always result in their blog being dragged down. How many times have they made a post exactly like this? It didn’t work the last ten times and it won’t work this time if they continue to not enforce their own rules. They just can’t bring themselves to delete a conservative post though and it will be their downfall yet again. Can’t wait to see this same post again in June.

  Joel - bad economy, unpopular war, most unpopular president in modern history, and to top it all off, McCain is actually changing his positions on issues to match Bush - even the democrats will have a hard time screwing this up.

• 11. FoolYouTwice  |  March 26th, 2008 at 9:33 am

  Spook, the electorate didn’t realize their “mistake” before, why do you assume they won’t do the same thing again?

  How would a voter even go about making sure congress is under one party’s control and the president the other? Not many people will vote a dem for pres and a republican for congress or vice versa.

  I know it makes you feel better to think republicans have more going for them, but it just isn’t the case in this election season.

• 12. Joe  |  March 26th, 2008 at 9:38 am

  FoolYouTwice,
  I got banned? When? What did I do??

  There are some nasty things from both sides on this blog. I do hope that ALL posters from both sides pay attention to this thread. A little more restraint in the debates would be awfully nice….. even if keefer continues to call people names.

• 13. Canadian Observer  |  March 26th, 2008 at 9:45 am

  If I recall, Mark, you have asked commentators in the past to post remarks without resorting to personal attacks and insults.
  It is apparent, however, that with certain individuals, this request seems impossible to honor. When I read a response that is basically nonsense; such as this one:

  11. FmrMarine | March 25th, 2008 at 6:30 pm

  which he submitted on The Zeal of the Convert thread, I consider the source and move on.

  There is no need to engage the offender in derisive dialogue as it only encourages this type of behavior.

  Your determination to keep this blog from degenerating into gutter fighting is appreciated, Mark.

• 14. kimberly4victory  |  March 26th, 2008 at 10:25 am

  Thank you, Mark and Matt. Much appreciated. I will ditto what Spook (HI RS!) said about you two.

  Note how liberals clamor to say “But, but, but what about those on the right?” I knew they would. We all knew they would. I will adhere to the rules and I am sure others will too … but, some cannot change as quickly because it’s in their military upbringing … LOL. I know, I lived with one.

  BTW, I’ve never had any problems with you, Joe, or several others. At least you come here to debate and not hurl insults every five minutes.

  What frustrates me the most is the assumption liberals make that all conservatives are warmongers (we do not love war), all conservatives do not care about the 4,000 troops that have given the ultimate sacrifice (that’s mularky, and you know it), all conservatives don’t care if someone gets sick and dies (because we don’t agree with universal healthcare - another ridiculous lie). Those insults are far worse than calling someone an “idiot”.

• 15. Casper  |  March 26th, 2008 at 10:54 am

  Thank you Mark and Matt. The reason I continue to come back here is because different viewpoints are allowed. I just hope you are willing to apply the same standards to everyone.

  kimberly4victory,
  Both sides make assumptions. How many times have you seen conservatives on this site refer to liberals as unpatriotic or hating America. I have friends on both ends of the political spectrum and I don’t know anyone who fits the stereotypes we have of each other.

• 16. lib  |  March 26th, 2008 at 11:02 am

  Kimberly - i love how you immediately think of a reason to defend those who do this from the right that you agree with (oh - its that they were in the military). This sort of behavior should not be tolerated or excused from anyone - end of story. Let see if it happens..

• 17. Sunny  |  March 26th, 2008 at 11:03 am

  And I actually don’t think a Republican President and a Democrat-controlled Congress is a bad thing. Democrats proved in the early 90’s that absolute power corrupts absolutely, getting booted out en masse in 1994, and darned if the Republicans didn’t turn around a prove exactly the same thing after a few short years controlling all the levers. Retired Spook

  I completely agree with you. I do hope that the Democratic Party does not control Congresa and the White House next year. That is just way too much power in the hands of one party.

  Mark - I always try to comply with your rules in posting, and also try to avoid name calling. It is difficult on occasions with the posts from the likes of SEW, FmrMarine and navydad. I do hope that you will equalize your deletions of posts to both sides of the discussion. I am pleased to see that you are once again setting out the rules for posting and I hope that everyone will be resfectful of each others opinions. We can disagree on issues without hateful commentary or personal attacks.

• 18. SEW  |  March 26th, 2008 at 11:10 am

  “issues without hateful commentary or personal attacks” Sunny

  And I always get hateful commentary and personal attacks from Sunny for presenting my opinion.

• 19. SEW  |  March 26th, 2008 at 11:17 am

  “the posts from the likes of SEW, FmrMarine and navydad.”

  Sounds hateful to me. Kinda like typical white person?

• 20. kimberly4victory  |  March 26th, 2008 at 11:29 am

  Casper: You’re right. Those labels are ridiculous as well.

  lib: It was kind of a joke. Sorry it didn’t come over that way to you … lighten up.

• 21. SEW  |  March 26th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

  But Sunny, thanks for including me with ‘the likes’ of navydad and FmrMarine.

• 22. SteaM  |  March 26th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

  Mark and Matt,

  I also will make a very good effort to follow your rules. I will echo the concern of the posters that you allow to break these rules because you either agree with them politically or because they slam those whom you disagree with and you want to allow it for a “gotcha” moment.

  I will be using the report abuse link if I see this. I also would recommend that people do the same and also not reply to these posts. It encourages the things you are noting as problems with the comments.

  “And I actually don’t think a Republican President and a Democrat-controlled Congress is a bad thing.”

  In theory I’d be inclined to agree with you however with the overuse of signing statements by the current president he has managed to override Congress without their approval. This removes the nice balance I seem to think you are suggesting. I think signing statements should be illegal. No matter what the case is or who the president is. If the president disagrees with a bill then he must veto it. This gives Congress (our representatives mind you) the choice of revising it or overriding the presidents veto. This is how things should work.

• 23. kimberly4victory  |  March 26th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

  “If the president disagrees with a bill then he must veto it. This gives Congress (our representatives mind you) the choice of revising it or overriding the presidents veto. This is how things should work.”

  Couldn’t agree more, SteaM.

• 24. FoolYouTwice  |  March 26th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

  Joe, don’t know what you did but from the Hillary is a Liar thread there is this now:

  6. Joe | March 25th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
  Deleted - off topic, commenter to be banned.

• 25. kimberly4victory  |  March 26th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

  I do hope Joe isn’t banned …

• 26. Zach  |  March 26th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

  Maybe Mark meant he was going to ban Sam. That makes more sense.

• 27. Joe  |  March 26th, 2008 at 2:31 pm

  Wow. I don’t even remember what I said. I didn’t think it was anything vulgar.

  Anyway… I’m still here.

  I truly hope that everyone does start paying attention to this thread. Good debate is significantly better than the name calling.

• 28. Retired Spook  |  March 26th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

  I will ditto what Spook (HI RS!) said about you two.

  Hi to you too, Kimberly. It’s nice to have you back. You offer a nice balance to D & D (Diane and Diana).

  How would a voter even go about making sure congress is under one party’s control and the president the other? Not many people will vote a dem for pres and a republican for congress or vice versa.

  FYT, you must be VERY young, or else you just didn’t think before typing your response. I have only voted a straight ticket once since 1966. I’ve voted for one party for President and the other for the House and/or Senate on a number of occasions. And I’m not unique out of a couple hundred million registered voters. The Dems controlled the House all 8 years under Reagan and the Senate all but 2 years. Under Clinton the GOP controlled both the House and Senate 6 out of 8 years. How do think that happened unless voters consciously split their votes?

  Splitting up control of government is the ultimate check and balance, IMHO. During the times when one party controls the whole works is generally when either bad things happen or not much good happens, i.e. the 4 years under Carter, Clinton’s 1st two years and, to some extent, Bush’s first 6 years.

• 29. Canuckguy  |  March 26th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

  Nothing wrong with name calling, makes a colourful point when accurate and truthful. Names like ‘retard’, ‘moron’, ‘dummy’, ‘idiot’, ‘knucklehead’
  ‘blockhead’, ‘bonehead’ are fine, after all, they all fit your president and his rabid dog supporters.

  ‘Failed abortion’ is a bit strong however.

• 30. Typical White Person  |  March 26th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

  I can honestly say I have never seen a rightie get their comments deleted. But that is ok.

  I can honestly say that some of my comments have been deleted, and I’m a “rightie(sic).”

  I’ve also been afforded attack-dog status. Mark/Matt, do I still enjoy such status?

  Thanks, lib, for the props. I see you’ve changed your nic again…

• 31. FoolYouTwice  |  March 26th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

  Spook

  Once again you can only present ancedotal evidence to prove your point. Probably 25% of people actually do this during an election. That can swing things, but hardly goes to show that the American people do not want one particular party in power and thus vote split ticket in hopes that won’t happen. The fact that one party is in power fairly often should prove that point easily enough.

• 32. What?  |  March 26th, 2008 at 8:12 pm

  New Rule:
  We can’t call each other racists, fascists or Nazis.
  Nevermind … but can’t a man dare to dream.

• 33. Retired Spook  |  March 26th, 2008 at 8:48 pm

  Once again you can only present ancedotal evidence to prove your point. Probably 25% of people actually do this during an election.

  FYT, yes, my own experience is anecdotal, but, by your own admission, 25% (assuming that’s accurate) is a rather large number — certainly more than enough to swing just about any national election. The mid-term election of 1994 (and maybe that’s before your time — I don’t know how old you are) was an excellent example of how the electorate consciously looked at the Dems record in the first half of Clinton’s first term and didn’t like what they saw: Hillary’s attempted takeover of 1/7 of the U.S. economy, the house banking scandal or house post office scandal (or both, I don’t remember, just that they both involved primarily Democrats). I’m sure the Contract With America also played a part, but the truth was that a lot of people were fed up with the way Democrats were conducting business. The fact that 2 years later they reelected Clinton for a second term says to me that a lot of people liked the idea of having government power split.

• 34. Joe  |  March 26th, 2008 at 8:53 pm

  keefer, I’ve never seen any of your comments deleted, but I usually try to just ignore them.

  Freedom however with all the anti-Ismal posts is a bit out-of-control and can’t believe some of those don’t get deleted.

  Anyway…. i’m all for a more reasonalbe civil debate.

  Your buddy,
  Joke (get it keefer. That was the funny nick you gave me but I find it explains the last 7 years better)

• 35. Mark Noonan  |  March 27th, 2008 at 12:35 am

  Thanks, guys and gals.

  A few additional comments:

  We do try to be fair and balanced - and as for the Keefer situation…if you believe he has been genuinely abusive, then let us know via the abusive comments link…but, on the other hand, Keefer has a tough skin, so hit back. There have been consevative comments deleted or edited - not as often as lefty comments, but the plain fact of the matter is that our conservatives don’t stray as often, or as far, over the line as some of our lefty commenters.

  Of the 729 threads on this blog (as of this moment), there are less than 500 comments which failed to make the grade - an average of less than one comment per thread. A very substantial portion of those were to “off topic”. I can’t emphasise enough - keep it on topic. The reason for this is that we want to encourage a discussion - not have every thread disintegrate into yet another post-mortem on the reasons we went into Iraq (and, as an aside, you lefties are going to have your chance on that in the next few days - I’m going to do a lengthy commentary on the origins of the war and why I think it was and is worth it - think weekend on it).

  Also, if you see we haven’t put up a topic, don’t make a snide remark about how we’re afraid of it - quite honestly, we might not be aware of your issue. There are weird lag times on commentary on this blog - Matt and I both work, but on opposite sides of the country…then there’s a day when I’m out of position completely, but Matt doesn’t have time, etc, etc, etc…sometimes, even the most burning issues which we’d like to discuss are delayed because, for instance, we can’t blog while Matt is out to dinner with his family and I’m still at work…

  If you think we’ve missed something interesting, send us an email about it…some of our best threads originated in a commenter tipping us off to something. If you tip, and you don’t see something on it, don’t feel discouraged - try, try again.

  We want this to be a fun place to be - always keep in mind that one of my very best friends (he was Best Man at my wedding) is a kook lefty, Bush-hating fanatic. In spite of this, we manage to be friends. Another friend cringes whenever she sees President Bush on TV. Yet another believes that, without exception, everything President Bush has done is wrong. With all of this difference of opinion, we yet manage to get along - surely, we can all be civil with each other here?

  Joe,

  Sorry ’bout that - in the process of weeding, I might have mistaken you for someone else.

• 36. Xango Annie  |  March 27th, 2008 at 1:41 am

  Hypocrisy is a liberal curse.
  Just my thought for the day….

• 37. Robert  |  March 27th, 2008 at 11:27 am

  “We want this to be a fun place to be - always keep in mind that one of my very best friends (he was Best Man at my wedding) is a kook lefty, Bush-hating fanatic. In spite of this, we manage to be friends. Another friend cringes whenever she sees President Bush on TV. Yet another believes that, without exception, everything President Bush has done is wrong. With all of this difference of opinion, we yet manage to get along - surely, we can all be civil with each other here?” - Mark

  Bravo, Mark!!!!

  From your comments and posts on this blog it is VERY hard to believe that you would EVER be friends with anyone who didn’t share your narrow-minded view of the world.

  It is extremely nice to see that you are human after all. It would be nice to see your friends as examples that not all Liberals are Godless heathens who are out to get your and ruin the world because they are Liberals.

  I really hope that you have spent time LEARNING from your friends instead of disagreeing with them, and I hope that in your years of friendship with them you have.

  Thank you Mark, for actually striving to believe that Liberals are reasonable human beings after all….

• 38. SteaM  |  March 27th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

  We do try to be fair and balanced - and as for the Keefer situation…if you believe he has been genuinely abusive, then let us know via the abusive comments link…but, on the other hand, Keefer has a tough skin, so hit back. There have been consevative comments deleted or edited - not as often as lefty comments, but the plain fact of the matter is that our conservatives don’t stray as often, or as far, over the line as some of our lefty commenters.

  I challenge you to keep a very open mind when considering a “conservative” commentor’s flagged comment as breaking the rules.

  Also, please refrain from even going there with the “fair and balanced” b.s. I’m sorry to tell you this buddy but we’ve heard that one before and have learned our lesson. If you are not balanced then you are not balanced. Just stick with that and don’t try to be something you are not.

  It appears that you are already not consistent in your deletion of comments which break your rules in terms of allowing someone who is a conservative to break the rules as long as the “liberal” commentors are willing to “hit back” because someone might have a thick skin. The point of moderating is to set rules and follow them regarding editing or deleting comments.

  I know you think I’m totally a bonkers leftie (I am left-handed, hippy-ish, progressive, very eccentric at times, and my lifestyle is one you could label as “alternative”, not to mention me being an atheist) but I do have some experience with attempting to moderate a messageboard where things had degenerated to the point that the board was useless. We tried to clean it up and experienced problems with being consistent and fair. If you are not consistent (even if it means censoring your friends) then you will fail at moderating successfully.

  Just my two cents.

  If you want us to hit people back who break the rules then we are going to have to break the rules. Which puts us right back to where we were. You keep the conservatives comments that break the rules and delete the rest.

  Again, mark and matt, I challenge you to focus some energy on being objective and open minded in all of this. Or not. It’s your blog.

• 39. Mark Noonan  |  March 28th, 2008 at 1:02 am

  Robert,

  We all learn from each other, if we really approach each other with a sense of love. In the end, our arguments here are trivial compared to the really important work we do - which is, each of us, to help those around us turn towards God, who is our origin and our only proper end. If we’re not assisting in that, at least in some degree, then we’re just spinning our wheels, in my view.

  There are two equally sad things - friendships broken over politics, and friendships made on mere political affinity. I won’t do either - there are positions I won’t retreat from even for friendship’s sake, but a real friend wouldn’t dream of asking me to do so…and for those who are my real friends, I wouldn’t dream of demanding they conform to my views. If we can’t agree, then we can’t agree - and we’ll just move on to something else.

• 40. Mark Noonan  |  March 28th, 2008 at 1:05 am

  SteaM,

  And I really do appreciate your two cents - but, no, I won’t try to balance everything to a nicety. There are certain things I won’t put up with - as a for instance, a comment calling our troops murderers won’t last long here, and any commenter making such an accusation won’t be around long, either. Someone who holds such opinions is not someone I want commenting on this blog.

  What I mean by fair is that I’ll try to knock heads over the same issues vis a vis right and left commenters. And, if I miss something, I rely upon you readers to bring it to my attention. Remember, if I read something I might think, at first glance, that its not that bad…but if someone brings it to my attention and elucidates reasons for questioning the comment, I might well see it from that person’s view and take action. The one thing I can’t do is read minds - if you don’t tell me what you’re thinking, I’ll never know.