
Divided Democrats in A Quagmire
March 26th, 2008 at 06:33pm Matt Margolis
Things aren’t looking so good for Democrats’ hopes for the White House this year. According to a recent Gallup poll, “a sizable proportion of Democrats would vote for John McCain next November if he is matched against the candidate they do not support for the Democratic nomination.” The poll says that 28% of Hillary’s supporters would rather vote for McCain than Barack Obama, if Obama got the Democratic nomination. In addition to that, 19% of Obama’s supporters said they’d vote for McCain if Hillary got the Democratic nomination
This certainly shows the impact of the ongoing battle between Hillary and Obama is having on the Democratic Party. True, come November, I wouldn’t expect either of those figures to maintain the same level, but it is clear that the Democratic Party is divided, and the longer this primary race goes for them the worse it will be for the Democrats. But, don’t expect the race to end anytime soon. In fact, I think we’re going to see Hillary and Obama battle it out all the way to the convention in Denver. A Rasmussen poll shows that 22% of Democrats think Hillary should drop out of the race, and and equal number of Democrats believe Obama should drop out.
The Democratic Party is divided, and I’m loving every minute of it. One might even say there’s a quagmire in the Democratic Party.
UPDATE: The plot thickens…
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats


40 Comments Add your own
1. Freedom1 | March 26th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Perhaps this revelation will divide the Democratic Party even further.
Obama is such a LIAR!
Revealed: Obama’s Dad Polygamist, Alcoholic
Parent Not Hero Portrayed In ‘Dreams from My Father’- WND
Obama blames racism for breaking up his parents’ marriage, not his father’s polygamist ways which began when he first left Africa, before he ever met Obama’s mother in Hawaii.
2. Typical White Person | March 26th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
You can’t blame him for wanting to suppress this information, if true. Maybe he was embarrassed. However, not a smart move to make crap up in a book, when you’re the messiah…
3. Freedom1 | March 26th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
[…WND cont.]
Obama’s lying is a serious problem that greatly calls into question what ever credibility he once had.
4. phnx | March 26th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Polygamy is perfectly acceptable under shari’a law. So I guess Barry doesn’t see anything wrong with it.
This begs the question, why are Mormons persecuted for polygamy in the US and not Muslims who practise the same illegal act?
5. Freedom1 | March 26th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Phnx: “Polygamy is perfectly acceptable under shari’a law. So I guess Barry doesn’t see anything wrong with it.”
Guess not. His views on Islam and how those views would (and already have) affect his decision-making here in the US are very disturbing.
“Obama’s Blind Spot on Race and Character”
By Frances Rice at Black Republican
Obama pushed Islam on America as part of his political life way back in 1997. This does not bode well for the future.
6. Joe | March 26th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Look…. I understand the thread earlier about comments, staying on topic, not being vulgar, keeping a reasonable debate and all…….
But wow. You people have called Obama the following:
– A socialist
– A communist
– A terrorist sympathizer
– A Muslim
– A racist
– A FARC supporter
– Putting Kenyan affairs ahead of U.S.
– A Chavez and a Che lover
and on and on and on.
Now you accuse his father of being a polygamist and an alcoholic.
And even worse… you link to a right-wing website for your news.
Now first of all, let’s all put reality aside and assume this is all true. To quote the Veep… “So?”.
What does that have to do with Obama’s presidential run?
Romney is a mormon. If it was him, would you be upset because the older Mormon’s believed in polygamy?
Anyway… back to reality for the rest of us.
7. Freedom1 | March 26th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
1) Obama’s Church Published Letter Accusing Israel Of Developing An ‘Ethnic Bomb’ That Kills Blacks And Arabs - Sweetness & Light
2) “Obama’s Pastor Slurs Italians in Latest Magazine” -
(Thanx, Michael!)
8. Freedom1 | March 26th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Link:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200803/POL20080326a.html
9. hermie | March 26th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Obama’s horrific judgement is coming more apparent.
He consorts with unrepentant domestic terrorists, racist ‘churches’, antisemite foreign policy advisors, shady ‘businessmen’, corrupt political machines, and can’t bring himself to walk away from these people. In fact, he provides justification for the activities of these people.
10. neocon | March 26th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Joe,
Would you like me to the list the litany of derogatory labels liberals have applied to Bush/Cheney, and other conservatives?
Is that what you call reality?
11. ViralNexus | March 26th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Joe, there are many reasons why these things have been said. While there may be a pin drop of truth to some of these things- the main purpose of this blog entry and all of the others like it is for the sake of reaffirmation. None of the self-proclaimed conservatives here were EVER going to vote for Obama or Hilary though they feel the need to find reasons no matter how presumptive or ludicrous to back up that decision. Instead of appearing close minded and hateful for simply saying “I’ll never vote for a f***ing democrat” they come up with these pedomorphic reaffirming diatribes. The funny thing is that I am not voting for Obama or Hillary but these brutal, relentless blatherings are trying my patience. I’m voting for McCain for the right reasons- not because he is necessarily conservative but more so because he has always been willing to work with both sides of the aisle to get things done. Also because he will rely on the wisdom and expertise of those around him to get the job done instead of assuming that his ideas are superior to everyone elses. At the end of the day it is McCain that will do the right thing for ALL of the American people and not just a select few individuals from a narrow minded and hateful political ideology.
12. Joe | March 27th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Viral,
Glad to see that you claim to be voting for McCain for the right reasons. To be honest, I would have no problem with a McCain presidency. It wouldn’t be my first choice, and I don’t like the idea that he is changing his views to gain votes… but I would actually consider voting for him.
One thing I would have to wait and see is who is Veep is going to be. It isn’t nice to say or think, but he is going to be 72 on innauguration day. I think, in his case, the VP selection is extremely important. I am hoping he doesn’t select someone just to pander to the far right. (Hey… maybe he’ll pick John Warner. That would be one way to make McCain look a lot younger! Just kidding of course).
I agree with you that they never have any intention of even thinking about a vote for a Dem. So just keep lobbing these accusations against the wall and hope that at least half the people believe them.
13. Joe | March 27th, 2008 at 9:47 am
neocon, calling Bush a dope or something is the equivalent of what people do on this blog (and what Mark and Matt posted against doing).
Calling someone a communist, a socialist, a FARC-supporter, etc is slinging mud.
But hey… keep doing it and maybe some people will actually start to claim it as true.
You can believe what you want, but when someone quotes something from another conservative blog and claims that as fact, I tend to discredit it.
14. neocon | March 27th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Joe,
Are you saying that the worst thing any liberal has ever called Bush is a “dope”?
Incidentally, I saw a Clinton advisor and an Obama advisor on CNN last night and it was ugly. They are attacking each other at alarming rates. Not good. McCain will win this election easily and the liberals will have blown another golden opportunity. Sorry.
15. SEW | March 27th, 2008 at 9:53 am
“Now first of all, let’s all put reality aside and assume this is all true. To quote the Veep… “So?”.
What does that have to do with Obama’s presidential run?” Joe
Who needs Leno?
16. Some Assembly Required | March 27th, 2008 at 9:58 am
neocon,
I have to disagree with you here. Worst case senerio dems go to the conference divided, but they will come out behind one leader, most likely Obama. Once their is one leader they will begin focusing on the issues. Let me assure you, if the economy keeps tracking the way it is McCain will have to re-think his positions. The dems have a better healthcare and immigration plan than what McCain is proposing IMO. The dem candidate will also run on withdrawl from Iraq which again will be another plus.
Come November I think this infighting now will be but a memory and have no real impact regarding the election.
17. Joe | March 27th, 2008 at 10:03 am
Thanks for adding something of value SEW. We can always count on you. By the way… you’ve used that Leno comment often. It wasn’t funny the first time.
neocon, I’m saying that yes, Bush has been called names. What you are doing is trying to make Obama something he isn’t. Hey, if you think Obama is a dope, then fine. But really… a FARC-supporter? A communist? Are you freaking kidding me?
Now you guys are trying to say that he believes in polygamy because Freedom1 found some right-wing blog that believes his father was one.
18. neocon | March 27th, 2008 at 10:04 am
SAR,
You’re ignoring the polls yesterday indicating that 20+% of Clinton supporters would not vote for Obama and 19% of Obama supporters will not vote for Clinton. Also, Obama is losing the independents mainly due to the Wright controversy. The longer this goes on, the worse it is for your chances in November.
Especially if Hillary is the candidate. African Americans will feel that she stole the election and they would be right.
19. neocon | March 27th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Joe,
I, personally, have never said that about Obama. I think the man is engaging and bright, I just happen to disagree with his policies and believe he is too inexperienced.
20. Some Assembly Required | March 27th, 2008 at 10:20 am
neocon, to cite polls now and conclude they will be the same in November is a bit of a stretch. I think Obama did a good job of nipping the Wright controversy in the butt. I don’t think it will really hurt him anymore than it already has. Even John McCain has said he should not be held responsible for what his pastor has said.
I do agree with you about your statement regarding Hillary. She has all but given up on the ‘black’ vote in her campaign. If she wins the nomination she will certainly have ground to make up here and I do not see it as being easy. I think Obama would have a much easier time of wooing Hillary supporters than Hillary would Obama supporters.
21. neocon | March 27th, 2008 at 10:26 am
SAR,
You’re glossing over the Wright issue. A 20 year relationship with a man who has offended so many will not just go away. Is it fair that Obama is held responsible? Maybe not, but his choice to remain loyal to the man even after hearing his rhetoric, does not sit well with middle America.
Also, how can Obama expect to unite the country when he can’t even unite his own party?
22. Some Assembly Required | March 27th, 2008 at 11:55 am
neocon, I think Obama’s speech on the issue covers any questions or concerns which could be voiced here on this blog or anywhere else. You disagree with Obama because of policies and inexperience which is perfectly fine by me. I disagree with McCain because of some of his policies but I do think he would do a better job than the current administration. I am glad that you are not voting for Obama simply because of his relationship with his pastor. Maybe I just have more confidence in middle America that they’ll vote on the issues not on relationships.
Obama cannot unite his own party where he is running against Hillary right now. Both candidates are running on pretty much the same platform. So in all sense the party is united on that front. Where the party is not united is in who best to achieve their platforms. After the conference it will be a different story.
23. SteaM | March 27th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I agree with SAR. This division is temporary. Once Democrats have a candidate chosen we will be united behind him or her. There might be a small percentage who will decide not to back that candidate because their favorite candidate was not chosen. There are those who will decide not to vote for this reason, switch to the other party, or still vote for the Democrat because many are not confident that Senator John McCain is enough of a change from the current Administration.
24. Almiranta | March 27th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Joe, your bullheaded determination to ignore the obvious is not very flattering to you.
First, you need to look at the word “socialist” from two perspectives. One is to understand what socialism really is. Here is one definition, the one which I think most closely fits the goals and ideals of both Obama and Clinton:
“….. a political theory or system in which the means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles.”
In other words, socialism is a model in which someone decides who DESERVES to get what, and then takes some from those who have more to give to those who have less. It is also called “leveling the playing field” among other phrases.
Socialism can be more extreme, can be approaching communism, but in its most common form, as seen in Europe for example, it is simply a modification of the capitalist system in which private property is confiscated (taxed) for redistribution based on the perception of need and not on productivity.
As I have just described the platform of most of the Left in this country, I am at a loss as to why you don’t openly embrace this definiton, and proudly call yourself a Socialist. But most of you won’t even call yourself Liberals.
The other perspective is to understand why you are so reluctant to identify yourself as a socialist. Isn’t there something inherently weird about refusing to admit to what you really are? Or inherently dishonest about trying to invent new words which attempt to portray your politics in a different, and hopefully more acceptable, light?
Next, I don’t think anyone has called Obama a communist.
He IS a “terrorist sympathizer” in that he sought out, befriended and remains (as he put it) “on friendly terms” with a self-admitted domestic terrorist. It’s his own words, Joe.
“A Muslim” Well, he WAS a Muslim for much of his life, Joe. Are you denying that? To paraphrase an old Jerry Seinfeld episode, “…not that there’s anything wrong with that..”
He not only chose, joined, attended, supported, financed, and participated in a church with clearly stated racist philosophies, he has sent his children to be exposed to the same teachings. It seems legitimate to question whether or not he shared or shares any of the racist teachings of the man he has identified as his “uncle”, a man he picked out to be his mentor and advisor.
I don’t remember anyone accusing him of being …a FARC supporter..”, “…putting Kenyan affairs ahead of U.S….” or being “…a Chavez and a Che lover…”—though he DID say he would meet with Castro, and several of his campaign offices DO sport Che posters.
We know you read a lot more into statements than is actually said, Joe, but if you are going to continue to post here it would be very helpful if you could try to be more accurate.
And NO ONE here is “accusing” Obama’s father of anything. Rather, some points of fact are presented, which seem to be supported by record. And the POINT, Joe, is that Obama invented a history which is not true. Worse, he defended his father’s actions by claiming his father did so because he was the victim of racism, when in fact he knew perfectly well that his father was a deeply flawed individual who lied, who cheated, and who also abandoned other children. Yet he chose—CHOSE—to blame white people for what happened.
You say: “Calling someone a communist, a socialist, a FARC-supporter, etc is slinging mud.”
But no, Joe it is not. It would be slinging mud if it were untrue, but if it is true it is simply a presentation of fact. It is odd to hear one who has engaged in so much vile mud-slinging on this site suddenly develop such delicate sensibilities, but then that is the life of a Lefty, having to shift positions depending on whose ox is being gored.
…………..
SAR, the term is “nip in the BUD”. It means to stop something in the early stages of development, before it has time to blossom, so to speak. And Obama didn’t. He dodged the issue, tried to deflect it into a general commentary on race, and did some pretty clever tap-dancing while never addressing the real issue.
Butt-nipping is more along the lines of a recreational activity……….
25. SteaM | March 27th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Mark get ready to delete my post.
Almiranta,
Ok, you’ve crossed a line from discussing the topic to simply hating people. Go take a walk or get some ice cream. Smell some flowers and smile some. You’ll feel better.
I’m just glad that the world you think you see with your eyes is not actually the real world or we’d all be in trouble and people would be very sad and angry.
26. Joe | March 27th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Mark had a whole post how Obama had a mentor that was a communist. People were then saying he had communist tendencies.
Freedom1 did one of his crazy links that proposed that Obama supported and even gave money to FARC.
js and SEW on another thread STRONGLY claimed that Obama was a Chavez and a Che supporter. There was some thread about there was a picture or something of Che at an Obama headquarters.
js, on one thread linked about 4 stories about Obama being related to Odinga in Kenya. He actually lobbed out the idea that he would put Kenyan affairs ahead of US affairs.
There were dozens of posts about Obama being a racist because of 3 speeches that his pastor gave him. Obama has never said anything racist. You people just want to say he is because of his preacher. This has all been covered.
So no… don’t tell me those things were not said. I can most certainly dig them up if you need me to.
I understand what a socialist is and the word is not a bad thing at all. It is how people on this site use it. They treat it as a slur.
27. SteaM | March 27th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
He’s also not ever been a muslim. That is silly.
But back to the topic. Look, I just wonder how long it will be before we have a candidate chosen. Harry Ried and Howard Dean have both said recently they are working on it so my question is do you think this decision will be made sooner rather than later?
28. Some Assembly Required | March 27th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Steam, I think this will carry on to the convention. That being said I do not think Michigan or Florida votes will be counted, nor will there be a second primary. This will ultimately come down to the super delegates and who the party members think has the best chance against McCain. This is good and bad in a sense. Good that party members of experience will decide who stands the best chance, but bad that the public did not. Either way, Obama will head to the convention with the most pledged delegates which cannot be ignored in any sense.
29. SteaM | March 27th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Yes, I also don’t think they will count Michigan or Florida’s primaries. That’s not fair to those who voted but hopefully the states will learn their lesson not to break the rules.
When is the convention, by the way…?
30. Some Assembly Required | March 27th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Exactly, and the people learn that it was their elected officials who effectively disqualified their vote, not the democratic party.
The convention is August 25 - 28 in Denver. So there still is a lot of time between now and then. I believe Hillary is under tremendous pressure where she will not obtain a lead in pledged delegates. So the next couple of months will be very interesting in that regard.
31. SteaM | March 27th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Sorry if I am picking your brain because I don’t have time to go look up this info… but exactly when do these super delegates actually vote?
32. kimberly4victory | March 27th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
SteaM: I re-read Almiranta’s post two times and not once did she say she hated someone. So what are you talking about?
I think it’s terrible there will be no re-votes in Michigan and Florida. I’d be very upset if I lived in either of those two states.
Don’t the super delegates vote at the convention? Not sure either …
33. Some Assembly Required | March 27th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Steam,
I’m a little confused on this myself. Where some have already pledged themselves to either Hillary or Obama. These Delegates can change their minds if they so choose. As far as I can tell (don’t quote me) The remaining super delegates will vote during the first two days of the convention leading to the leader being announced and celebrated on the last day of the convention. I also do not have time to cite links for this today.
34. SteaM | March 27th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
kimberly4victory,
Making my case for why i used the word “hate” even though she never actually literally said she hated anyone would take a while. I don’t think mark or matt would appreciate me doing that.
But in short… she assumes, generalizes, and says that things are true when they are indeed not true only to try to smear someone she hates.
35. Freedom1 | March 27th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Joe,
You have a bad memory. Or you are lying. I never said that Obama supported or gave money to FARC. I linked to an Investor’s Business Daily column which stated that Columbians found a FARC computer with Barack Obama’s name in it and some mysterious FARC/”gringo” contacts.
“So no… don’t tell me those things were not said. I can most certainly dig them up if you need me to.” - Joe
Find it. You need to re-read it because you obviously didn’t understand it the first time.
Joe: “Now you guys are trying to say that he believes in polygamy because Freedom1 found some right-wing blog that believes his father was one.”
How dense are you, Joe?? Obama’s father was a Muslim and polygamy is allowed in Islam. Islam allows a man to marry up to 4 wives. How do you think Obama got so many step-brothers and sisters and a step-grandmother? Magic? Buy a clue Joe.
__________________________________
About Obama’s “church”:
“Black Liberation Is Marxist Liberation”
By Anthony B. Bradley
Anthony B. Bradley is a research fellow at the Acton Institute, and assistant professor of theology at Covenant Theological Seminary in St. Louis. His PhD dissertation is titled, “Victimology in Black Liberation Theology.”
http://archives.subscribermail.com/msg/762bf98a7dd84386a6e7f53c33025f7a.htm
36. Freedom1 | March 27th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Speaking of FARC terrorists…
Colombia Seizes 66 Pounds of Uranium from FARC - Reuters
37. Michael | March 28th, 2008 at 11:59 am
The nastiness in the Democrat party is getting worse. The personal attacks between Obama an Clinton get meaner every day. Clinton backers threaten House Speaker Pelosi and she angrily strikes back. We have some party hacks yelling for a resolution of the nomination soon and others, especially on the Clinton side, wanting to drag it out until the convention. Hillary recently said, “that’s what credential fights are for” meaning she intends to not only hang in there but to try to take the nomination away from Obama. Of course his backers will fight that viciously. So the much-feared train wreck is still on schedule. Just yesterday, Howlin’ Howie Dean said he wants super delegates to “end” this by July 1 and worries about the damage it is doing to the party. Florida and Michigan, as of now, will not have revotes so their delegates will not be seated at the convention unless Hillary wins the credential fight. Time magazine is calling for dumping both candidates and going with Al Gore (talk about desperate), who I suspect won’t consider it because he likes his new rock star reputation. Positions are hardening and there seems to be no resolution in sight. As previously noted many Democrats say if their candidate isn’t chosen they will either vote for McCain or stay home. No matter which candidate “wins” the nomination, the party will lose a golden opportunity and fracture into factions. If Obama is denied, the Dems could lose the black vote for decades. Some Dems are talking about offering Hillary a consolation prize, Harry Reid’s majority leader job, and if she takes it she will be waiting for Obama if he gets elected. And she won’t be looking for unity or healing - just revenge and helping Obama to fail. There really seems to be no way out of this for the Democrats and they brought it on themselves with their rejection of Michigan and Florida votes and their stupid super delegate idea. Right now there seems to be no way the “people” will have any voice in who will get their nomination - it will be people like old party hacks who select the nominee. This is what democracy looks like to Democrats? Actually I think not. I think they are starting to see the disaster they brought down on themselves and some are now demanding things get fixed. But for this election, its too late.
38. Sean | April 16th, 2008 at 9:03 am
If you’re tired of waiting around for those super delegates to make a decision already, go to LobbyDelegates.com and push them to support Clinton or Obama
If you haven’t done so yet, please write a message to each of your state’s superdelegates at http://www.lobbydelegates.com
It takes a moment, but what’s a few minutes now worth to get Obama in office?!
Sending a note to current Obama supporters lets them know it’s appreciated, sending a note to current Clinton supporters can hopefully sway
them to change their vote to Obama, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Obama. It’s that easy…
Clinton Supporters
It takes a moment, but what’s a few minutes now worth to get Clinton in office?!
Sending a note to current Clinton supporters lets them know it’s appreciated, sending a note to current Obama supporters can hopefully sway
them to change their vote to Clinton, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Clinton. It’s that easy…
we’ll make it REALLY easy and include a list of names, addresses, and affiliations of superdelegates from each state including your state.
39. annette benning&hellip | June 19th, 2008 at 4:36 am
annette benning
Thanks for the nice read, keep up the interesting posts..
40. Payday Advance Loans&hellip | June 21st, 2008 at 9:02 am
Payday Advance Loans
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