Fitna (Bumped)
March 28th, 2008 at 07:25pm Mark Noonan
Its a movie, and its causing a bit of controversy. Why? Because it connects the Koran with violence. Diana West notes the pre-emptive rage being directed against the film, and the nauseating cowardice resulting from the rage:
Pre-Emptive Rage is something new. It works like this: Because the Wilders film is expected to criticize Islam, Muslims who brook no religious criticism are expected to freak out. Therefore — just as if this were the most normal, everyday, ordinary state of affairs — Muslims and Europeans are making their respective arrangements.
In Afghanistan, Muslims have been igniting Dutch and Danish flags (did I mention Danish Cartoon Rage is back?), threatening to eject Dutch and Danish troops, and practicing their “Death to America” chants. Iranian officials have promised diplomatic rupture and worse if the film comes out. Meanwhile, the Dutch have embarked on a veritable world tour of pre-emptive appeasement. The MEMRI blog reported this week that the Dutch government sent a letter disavowing Mr. Wilders to Sheikh Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi, Sunni Islam’s foremost figure (who has variously called for “jihad” against U.S. forces in Iraq and sanctioned suicide bombings against Israeli women and children). The sheikh’s response? He “demanded that the Netherlands government take more action against Wilders, and added that protection given to those harming Islam will negatively affect Egyptian-Dutch relations.” Pre-emptive “Fitna” rage has also made European elites hopping mad — only not at the rioters and blackmailers (the healthy, normal reaction), but at Mr. Wilders. Here, multiculti Europeans and perpetually aggrieved Muslims are finding common ground.
Thus, as reported by Dutch blogger Klein Verzet, the grand mufti of Syria, Ahmad Badr Al-Din Hassoun, admonishes the European Parliament about potential film-related “riots, bloodshed and violence” for which “Wilders will be responsible.” And thus Dutch Prime Minister Jan Balkenende says exactly the same thing. At a press conference earlier this year, the online Dutch site NIS News Bulletin reported that Mr. Balkenende “stressed repeatedly and with irritation that Wilders and no one else was responsible for any violence that might break out after his film’s release.” And when Sheikh Tantawi indicates that providing “protection” for Mr. Wilders is a bad idea, it not only sounds like a mafia don calling for a hit, it also echoes the dean of Dutch journalists, Henk Hofland. As Thomas Landen of The Brussels Journal reports, Mr. Hofland urged the Dutch government to withdraw state protection from Mr. Wilders, who lives under constant threat of assassination. “Let him feel what it is like for those whose lives he endangers,” said Mr. Hofland, adding that any murders committed in retaliation for Mr. Wilders’ opinions on Islam would be the responsibility of Mr. Wilders, not the murderers.
From the American point of view, Wilders is wrong - we should not ban the Koran. But what is just astounding is the level of cowardice on display amongst Europeans on this subject. Rather than pleading that they agree with the Islamists that Wilders shouldn’t have made his film, the European governments should be promising stern actions against anyone who takes to violence over the film, including threats to deport all non-native Moslems, if necessary. One doesn’t wish to un-necessarily offend people - but if Moslems keep this sort of thing up, I’m going to start advocating a national “piss on a Koran” day. Moslems would consider my mere presence in Mecca to be a defilement, and with such an attitude they expect me to show respect for their sacred things? Respect should be a two way street, ya know?
But the cowardice is even worse than the Islamists making threats - if these Europeans wish to be slaves to Islamic masters, then just go ahead and sell yourselves. Get it over with, for crying out loud. The Moslems will treat you well…provided you kneel and scrape and pay tribute and don’t mind if your sons and daughters are taken away for the sexual and military service of the Moslem elite. Other than that, plus the odd beheading, you can just keep on with your lives, Europeans. Or, you can get off your knees and tell Islam where to stick it.
UPDATE: Little Green Footballs, naturally, has a link to the film. As for me, I’ve downloaded it - the Islamists and their leftwing enablers will not make this thing go into the Memory Hole.
Entry Filed under: Foreign Affairs, Popular Culture, Religion, War on Terror
51 Comments
1. Michael | March 28th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
But the Euros are so cosmopolitan…
2. Diana Powe | March 28th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I agree with the essential premise from the perspective of someone who lives with the protections of our First Amendment that Geert Wilders should be free to make any film he wants. At the same time, people should be free to object to the film he makes so long as they don’t assault people or damage other people’s property in doing so. Regardless, it’s apparently not going to be the cause célèbre that Wilders would doubtless like for it to be:
Anyone here even remember Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s 2004 film Submission?
3. SEW | March 28th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Deleted - off topic.
4. Diana Powe | March 28th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Deleted - off topic.
5. SEW | March 28th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Deleted - off topic.
6. Michael | March 28th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
LiveLeak had to remove the Fitna video due to death threats.
And Michael van der Galiën’s European blog PoliGazette posted one of the publicly available copies of Geert Wilders’ Fitna, and now his site has been suspended. (Thanks LGF)
Wilder’s life has been threatened and no theater would dare show it. Now even the internet is censoring it via death threats. The radicals seem to be focusing on web sites where someone is foolish enough to publish it. Yet some still have it online but noone knows for how long.
7. Diane Tomlinson | March 28th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Can I take a wild guess what the topic of the deleted comments was?
I have a better question Noonan would you embed the video on your site?
8. noodle | March 28th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
ah - well I guess we already know where Mark will do - after all he grew up catholic so the preists must have already taught him that one..
9. LiberalNitemare | March 28th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
I think that this may go down as a backfire for the Islamists.
Personally, I had no idea the film existed before today, and now its showing up on several other sites.
The film can be difficult to watch and links the word of the Koran to some pretty unsavory images and statements. But its not lying.
10. js | March 28th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
the quotes from the koran are correct
you can learn more about them at answering-islam.com
that site has been up for at least 10 years, and has a solid reputation
the last dane to do this was theo van gough, who was assassinated by a muslim that swears he would do it again if he had the chance, he is in neatherland prison system now
what we need to pay attention too is what these huge muslim populations are doing in western nations
neatherlands has a very open society, and accepted these people with open arms, and they really do regret it today
the same thing happened in France, its happening in England, and most of the EU for that matter
the same thing can and will happen in america if we dont take our stand soon
did anyone think about why our forefathers banned this religion from this nation? it may not have been in the constitution, but muslims have never really been welcomed into this nation until recently
so fast we forget the learnings of our fathers…..
11. Diana Powe | March 28th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
President George W. Bush speaking on September 17, 2001:
Yes, let’s all listen to js and disregard that pesky First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. After all, it’s just a piece of paper.
12. js | March 28th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
sure, like you would also make believe that i wrote the koran
get real and stop puttin on the naive mask
“Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection (Koran 9:29).”
you can start being a mental slave today, offer up the jitzya tax at any mosque, they will not turn you away
go for it DP, sqeeze every time the truth hurts, that way you know you are alive
13. js | March 28th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
While the Qur’an does say, “There shall be no compulsion in religion” (2:256), many Qur’anic scholars insist that, in its context, this verse has nothing to do with not forcing non-Muslims to submit to the rule of Islam. Many also teach that this “no compulsion” verse was abrogated (2:106) and replaced by the later and more numerous verses that say things like: “Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and hypocrites and deal rigorously with them.” (9:73) “Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme.” (8:39) “Fight against such of those … who … do not embrace the true Faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued.” (9:29) In Muhammad’s day, conquered Jews and Christians who did not convert to Islam were allowed to live, provided they paid jizya, a “protection” tax. Pagans were only given the choice to convert or die.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Sene/morethanreligion.html
so tell us DP, why do you think OBL does what he does, because he missed the part in the koran that tells him not to do these things? Still lookin for it myself, be my guest, show me where the koran tells muslims that all this written in the koran is not what they should do, be and follow
lets go diana, the boat is tuggin on the dock
14. Diana Powe | March 28th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
js,
Feel free to convey your sentiments (or whatever all that was) to President George W. Bush via http://www.whitehouse.gov.
15. js | March 28th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Rights of Non-Muslims
in an
Islamic State
http://www.answering-islam.org/NonMuslims/rights.htm
tell us it aint so diana, those loving muslims would promote world peace and harmony with all the other religions and peoples in the world
then you can tell us why so many cultures were destoyed by muslims in the last 1400 years, and how dozens of nations abandoned thier history and culture to accomodate arab culture, the culture of the peaceful muslim that swept across the east and slaughtered a hundred million hindu and budist, right to the shores of indonesia…
or did your history book go back that far?
east timor 150k dead by muslim militia
assyrian massacre 1.5 million
the croatian slaugher of the serbs and gypsies, over 2 million dead during WWII, only suprpased by the nazi slaugher of the jews
or maybe you should go back to 731ad in france, when the muslims crossed from spain, and took the french city of narbonne, where they killed every man of military age and older, and raped and pillaged the city, and left with tens of thousands of christian women and children as slaves, in accordance with the example of mohammad, the warlord of Mecca
how many more should I post on Diana, to prove that this religion of peace and love you call islam is nothing of the sort, how many verses from the koran do you need to read to start your brain into gear, and realize that this is not about prejudice and pride, but the survival of our way of life as our fathers left to us….
16. js | March 28th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
14. Diana Powe
cool, i was right
you really dont have the guts to stand up to this
it doesnt matter to me what Bush said, politics and reality normally evade each other like you do the truth
17. congressive | March 28th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
It’s a snuff film. If anyone here on this thread can contribute to the criminal prosecution of the people in this film, please watch it. Otherwise, it’s kinda sick, and an invasion of privacy of that most horrifying moment of the victim’s death. Police, gotta watch, military, gotta watch, but would you want your own death gawked at on YouTube? Your relatives would be a bit upset, don’t you think?
Maybe not.
18. js | March 28th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
it gets to the point, no?
think about this
if muslim people world wide (what are there, like 3.5 gajillion of them or something?) would concentrate thier effort on defying what this film portrays in act and deed instead of burning down churches and cutting of christians and norweigians heads because of it, then there would not be a single war in the world today
not one
so on one hand, everyone in the religion of peace is filled with hatred and deliver death threats to anyone and everyone who broadcasts the message this film delievers, and on the other, the film is nothing more than a documentary of what those same muslims do
19. Diana Powe | March 29th, 2008 at 12:07 am
js,
Maybe you could talk the President of the United States (you know, the one I’m sure you voted for - twice) into proposing a Constitutional amendment repealing the First Amendment. You remember that one, don’t you?
It’s quite clear that you hate it.
20. js | March 29th, 2008 at 1:37 am
really diana powe, for someone pissing and moaning all the time about not getting us to debate your issues, maybe thats because when we do, you dont have what it takes to join in
beyond that, you assume to know my mind, which onlly makes you an …well, its not the front side of the north bound donkey, put it that way…..in other words, you dont know shiite, or sunni, or squat as far as islam goes!!
21. js | March 29th, 2008 at 1:40 am
Islam Is More than a Religion - I
Islam Is More than a Religion - II
http://www.unashamedofthegospel.org/islam_more_than_religion1.cfm
22. js | March 29th, 2008 at 1:45 am
the fact is, islam is theocracy, and can not survive in its current for unless it adheres to a theorcratic governance
islam is also a social culture, and muslims are told in the koran to reject non muslims and subdue them
islam, as a religion, has to distract from the core ties it claims with the judeo christian heritage, because there to too many inconsistancies for them to explain
the truth is, in islam is revolution for one purpose, to further the rule of islam, not the people, and it is led by religion, not the people, and its societies are dictated conduct by the religion, not the people
islam is not so much surrender, as it is slavery to religious leaders and blood lust
23. Diana Powe | March 29th, 2008 at 1:56 am
Shorter js: “I hate Muslims AND the First Amendment.” We’ve got it.
24. Mark Noonan | March 29th, 2008 at 2:20 am
congressive,
It is, indeed, horrific in what it shows, and I disagree with the concept of widely broadcasting such a film - on the other hand, the rawness is reality, and we should see, from time to time, just what it is we’re fighting against.
25. Jeremiah | March 29th, 2008 at 2:33 am
Shorter js: ?I hate Muslims AND the First Amendment.? We?ve got it.
Turn that around Diana, like this - “I hate Christians AND the First Amendment.” and you have the scenario that is being carried out against Christians every single day, not only that, but in that scenario you have the truth of the matter. How so? You Liberals along with the ACLU and SoCaS fanatics seek to remove the name of Jesus Christ and all references to Him from our public schools, replacing Him with “Allah.” For example - an elementary school in California was segregated along religious and ethnic lines to make way for the teaching of Islam, and staging a fake Jihad, in essence, all it’s really doing is teaching the children to embrace death and destruction in the name of a false prophet and god.
So Diana, I really hope you can take a hint (like you’ve “never” been given one except 50 billion times in the last three weeks) and stop assuming things that you know aren’t true. Or is your hatred of Christians and all things Christianity to much to overcome?
Remember, Diana, ‘Nothing is impossible, when you put your trust in God.’
–Jeremiah–
26. Diana Powe | March 29th, 2008 at 2:47 am
Jeremiah,
I’m guessing you’re busily misrepresenting this situation in San Diego: (emphasis added)
27. Christian Wright | March 29th, 2008 at 6:12 am
I remember when I saw Kevin Smith’s “Dogma” which is a harmless comedy that takes all the most ridiculous beliefs of Christianity and puts them together in one movie. There were people protesting the movie outside the theater and giving me a hard time for buying a ticket.
There was no violence, but the threat of violence hung in the air.
Fanatics are fanatics of any faith. There is nothing anyone can do about it.
28. js | March 29th, 2008 at 7:18 am
23. Diana Powe
Shorter js: “I hate Muslims AND the First Amendment.” We’ve got it.
No diana powe,
you do not got anything but your own words-you do that quite often, i did not say that, but you, in your rush to discount/disrespect and somehow “win” this petty competition in your mind, tend to make statements about other people that are radically designed to fit your own purpose, not intent on actually trying to understand what your opponent said….this happens quite often, you insult mark and matt constantly doing the same thing because it fits your purpose
its a childs way of getting attention
maybe, if you really were a police officer, then you would act like an adult i should think
but the fantasy fits all the way around, you might be in a grown ups body, you really truely, you are just a juvenile delinquent that never grew up
strange how liberalism attracts your kind, isnt it!!
29. js | March 29th, 2008 at 7:31 am
just to enforce the meaning of what i said, because simple minded children like to confuse the issue, islam is not “a religion”….our forefathers were fighting the islamic kaliphate for as long as it has existed, and finally, after over 1200 years, the kaliphate was deposed, and the ottoman empire destroyed
during that time, islam took, by the sword, dozens of christian nations, slaughered millions of christians, and enslaved just as many
that sort of behavior is not rooted in a religion, but in domination and governance of the world
islam IS a government system that is theocratic and is a direct contradiction of judeo christianity and judaism
30. Macker | March 29th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
ISLAM DELENDA EST.
31. FmrMarine | March 29th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
islam is a bloodthirsty CULT!
nier
http://ballyblog.wordpress.com/2007/07/03/terrorists-are-muslims-list-of-islamic-terrorist-attacks/
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTBiWxN4BlM
32. Diane Tomlinson | March 29th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
That’s funny. Xenophobes and religious racists want to see a snuff film but would march on the White House to keep a film of two people having sex from being shown in a movie theater. O how far the mighty have fallen!
33. FmrMarine | March 29th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
“but would march on the White House to keep a film of two people having sex from being shown in a movie theater.”
but would march on the White House to keep a film of two people having -HOMOSEXUAL-sex from being shown in a movie theater.
There FIXED
34. FmrMarine | March 29th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
JS
>>>strange how liberalism attracts your kind, isnt it!!<<<
OOH
you will be hearing from the GLBT mob that posts here.
DT is one of their poster children.
The real dichotomy is, under islam ALL homosexuals would be EXECUTED, but the nutroots who HATE Christianity do not realize WE are the only thing between islam and THEIR beheading.
35. Diane Tomlinson | March 29th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
horsefeathers fmrmarine you all want us dead too.
36. FmrMarine | March 29th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
DT
THAT is a LIE!
if it were true you would be,
instead you are here posting your rubbish on a conservative post.
37. js | March 29th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
strange, if you just reword the film, it would be a perfect recruitment piece for al Queda, Hamas or Hezbollah
you cant take what these dingbats say with a grain of salt, its a waste of salt FmrMarine
the best we can do is just smile and wave and, wait till they step up to the plate then smack them down with common sense, and then just smile some more……
38. Canuckguy | March 29th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
The video did nothing to change my views, it just depicted what I already understand the situation to be. But it serves a purpose to fire discussion up in Europe. There is nothing really hateful about it, it is just a series of video clips of actual actions and speeches and some Koran quotes. In Canada, the Human Right Commission would be all over the guy, sad to say.
I guess we should expect grovelling from the Dutch government as they quake in fear of demostrations, I guess we can expect attempts on Wilders’ life. The Canadian army liberated the Dutch from the Nazi yoke, it seems that they and the rest of Europe are complacently allowing another yoke to be put on them, the Muslim yoke, sad to say.
39. Almiranta | March 29th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
But you know, marine, how deeply invested Diane is in victimhood. It’s oozed through many of her posts, and now it blazes out in all its glory—she truly believes we “all” want her “dead”—because of her sexual identity? Because we fail to recognize her natural charms? Why? After all, what could make a person more appealing than a tendency to label those who do not agree with her as “xenophobes” and “religious racists”? Ow—-the double whammy. Not only racists, but religious to boot!
Yeah, right, Diane—you and your lesbianism are sooooo important to “all” of us that we really obsess about you all the time.
See what I mean about the Liberal mindset? The melodrama is stunning, the victimhood palpable, the egocentrism overwhelming. When in fact no one cares.
The point of the thread seems to be not only the intolerance of Islam but the willingess to slaughter people for the slightest hint of objection to any of its tenets, teachings, or actions.
Only the most feebleminded of radical Lefties could compare people being offended at having their religion ridiculed with people being KILLED for making public a realistic view of Islam.
Diana, we get it—-you are trying to get someone to take the bait regarding your harping on the First Amendment. What, you found a part of the Constitution you like—this week, anyway?
But I have been saying for years that while some forms of Islam do have the trappings of religion—-they are focused on worship and redemption and salvation, for example—the more radical forms are clearly more political than religious. When a movement’s focus is on world conquest and domination, why should it be given a pass because it CLAIMS it is doing so in the name of religion?
But it’s silly to pretend that there is any desire to have a rational debate or discussion here—the radicals just love a chance to snarl and hurl insults, and for some reason have chosen this blog as a place where they can dump their loads at will.
40. Diana Powe | March 29th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Yes, fortunately, no one would ever, ever think of using Christianity to serve momentary political ends. That would be just awful.
41. js | March 29th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
actually, you are close to it dp
kings and wealthy people used christianity in europe for centuries as a tool to keep people in check
it might have lasted for a few hundred years
but that ended hundreds of years ago
in the end the truth that was contained in the christian bible, that christianity is based on, won out
the christian church has not had that kind of sway over the nations for over two centuries
so, in your sarcastic comment, i find some light to shine on, in spite of the vindictive attitude you show for christ and his followers
God works in mysterious ways, eh?
42. Mortimer | March 30th, 2008 at 12:57 am
It seems that Bush, like most of Wilder’s d’himmi western critics, has it wrong, Muslims should respect our laws and rights and not try to silence critics with threats and violence. Muslims are a 1000x safer here than we are in their miserable countries.
OT, BTW, I see the usual gay haters here piling on the gay troll with all their hate and venom spilling out, keep it up, show everyone what loving, god fearing folks you are!
43. Freedom1 | March 30th, 2008 at 2:38 am
1) UN’s Ban Ki-moon Against Free Speech, Calls for ‘Fitna’ to Be Censored
2) “Muslim nations condemn Dutch Koran film”
44. Freedom1 | March 30th, 2008 at 2:59 am
UNITED NATIONS PASSES RESOLUTION AGAINST FREE SPEECH - AP
“UN OKs Islamic Text Against Defamation”
By ELIANE ENGELER, AP
(3/27/08)
Cowards!
45. Mark Noonan | March 30th, 2008 at 3:04 am
Freedom,
Yet another reason to ditch the UN in favor of a “League of Democracies”.
46. Freedom1 | March 30th, 2008 at 3:06 am
“Freedom: Yet another reason to ditch the UN in favor of a “League of Democracies”.”
Faster, please!
47. Freedom1 | March 30th, 2008 at 3:18 am
Europe is dying, almost dead.
48. Leo Pusateri | March 30th, 2008 at 8:58 am
They have been assimilated.
49. Freedom1 | March 30th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Leo,
You get bonus points for the Borg reference! :)
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