Star Parker Urges Conservative Social Agenda on McCain
April 2nd, 2008 at 09:11am Mark Noonan
This is laying down the social conservative marker with gusto:
John, half our country today is ready to vote for a presidential candidate, be it a white woman or a black man, who favors promiscuous use of government power to pretend to solve every domestic challenge we have.
Both these candidates want to nationalize health care, raise taxes to deal with our Social Security and Medicare crises, and onerously regulate the mortgage industry. Both condemned the Supreme Court’s decision banning partial birth abortion. Both reject the only hope we have for addressing our education problems: school choice.
I appreciate your concern for how we are treating the 600 or so detainees we are holding in Guantanamo.
But have you thought about the 2.3 million of our own citizens — 1 percent of our adult population — in prison? Ten percent of black men between 20 and 34 are in prison or jail.
If millions of low-income Americans would hear a genuine and aggressive message from our leadership about how conservative and traditional values address their problems, they’d be less susceptible to destructive illusions peddled by those like the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
While you spoke in Los Angeles, Social Security and Medicare trustees issued a report. These systems are bankrupt and in the red by more than $50 trillion — several times our gross domestic product. This is more than a cash flow problem; this is a misuse of government crisis. Is this not a “transcendent threat?”
Our incidence of out-of-wedlock births — almost 40 percent — is 10 times greater than 50 years ago. Do you see breakdown of the American family as a “transcendent threat?”
How can we light the path to freedom for others when we are so clearly losing the way ourselves? I think the “transcendent threat” is the dimming of that light from the city on the hill.
In a broad sense, Ms. Parker is correct - our primary problem today is a moral problem. All of the weapons in the world won’t protect us from terrorism if we don’t have the moral courage to fight the terrorists - but, also, all of the education initiatives in the world will avail us nothing if we don’t show the moral courage to insist upon results; all the welfare programs in the world won’t do anything if we don’t demand that poor people with children form families in order to receive benefits; all the programs to deter youth crime will be pure wheel-spinning if we don’t shut down the purveyors of violence and smut who propagandise the children into criminality. Our problems stem from the collapse of Judeo-Christian morality and only a re-assertion of such morality will save us from ultimate destruction as a nation. So, kudos to Ms. Parker for speaking truth out loud.
On the other hand…politics is the art of the possible and while we on the right know what needs to be done, we can’t just willy-nilly shove it through. Festina lente, goes the old Latin saw - make haste slowly. Try to do too much, too fast, and we might provoke a reaction against our whole program, thus setting ourselves back Lord only knows how much. Elect the most conservative men and women we can find; strongly pressure them to toe the conservative line - but, in the end, trust in God that the path will be cleared for those who serve Truth.
Given the whole situation we find ourselves in, electing John McCain is not just the best we can do in the negative sense, but will also be a substantial step forward for the conservative movement, as a whole. Behind John McCain’s strong leadership and appeal to the middle, we will be much better position to present the conservative agenda to the American people for their consideration and eventual approval.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Republicans, Social Issues
59 Comments
1. Joe | April 2nd, 2008 at 9:24 am
Please please please tout John McCain as a true Conservative and as “a substantial step forward for the conservative movement, as a whole”
Please shout that from the mountain tops!
After 8 years of the current conservative Administration and the previous 6 of a Conservative Congress…. people will run away from McCain screaming.
You are asking McCain not only to fix SS and Medicare… you are asking him to not only “win” against the terrorists… you are also asking him to do something about the out-of-wedlock births, lead the low-income so they no longer listen to Rev Wright, you also want him to lead those in jail to the path of righteousness.
OK… talk about pie in the sky. And you people laugh that Dems believe Obama will fix all that ails us. HA!
2. Blackjack | April 2nd, 2008 at 9:31 am
In a broad sense, Ms. Parker is correct - our primary problem today is a moral problem.
Oh, how we long for the days when the KKK and not black preachers peddled destructive illusions.
3. Almiranta | April 2nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
Doncha just love the absolute total cluelessness of the rabid Left?
Take Joey, for example. He likes to posture as a political pundit, yet he seems to have completely missed the years of complaining that the President, and Congress, have abandoned too many of the basic tenets of Conservatism.
Evidently all the years of comments from conservatives (who, by the way, are proud of their conservatism and don’t feel the need to hide it behind weasel words designed to disguise it as something else…) who have been unhappy at seeing true conservative values set aside in favor of more spending and bigger government have just gone over Joe’s pointy little head.
Or maybe they never talked about it on Airhead America or the Daily Kos.
Blackie, on the other hand, is yet another example (in a long long line..) of the puerile snottiness that seems to pass for intellectual political discourse from the radical Left.
But what both are trying to do is dodge the true issue, and the truth—that the problems listed are the direct result of Liberal politics and attitudes.
4. Joe | April 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 am
Almiranta,
Please point to any of my comments where I complained “that the President, and Congress, have abandoned too many of the basic tenets of Conservatism.”
Nope. Haven’t done that at all.
I also never claimed to be a political pundit. I just like seeing what you people are venting about and find it quite funny. At times, I throw in my thoughts.
I also don’t have a pointy head, but hey… you can keep projecting all you want.
And “all the years of comments from conservatives… who have been unhappy at seeing true conservative values set aside in favor of more spending and bigger government” amount to perhaps a half dozen comments between Blogs for Bush and Blogs for Victory in the several years I have been reading this blog.
Again, thanks for assuming things about you, but I don’t listen to Air America (not on any local channels here in Boston) and I don’t read DailyKos. Why should I go an comment with everyone I agree with. I’d rather see you people blow a gasket over someone’s preacher.
But this comment…. “But what both are trying to do is dodge the true issue, and the truth—that the problems listed are the direct result of Liberal politics and attitudes.”
This is the whole reason I come to this site. I get my laughs. Is there anything in this country that you wouldn’t hesitate to blame on liberals???
Stop projecting. Your long boring rants are ridiculous.
5. FoolYouTwice | April 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 am
Almiranta, what we haven’t missed is people like you claiming they would never vote for McCain, yet now supporting and defending him every chance they get. What we haven’t missed is people like Mark and other conservative “pundits” complaining that McCain wasn’t conservative enough, but now holding him up as a step forward for the conservative movement.
Of course, with the amount of flip flopping McCain has done in the past couple of months, maybe it shouldn’t be suprising that you would do the same.
6. majoriot | April 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am
And, in the end, you want to put it into your god’s hands. The ultimate cop-out.
Will you ever accept that humans, and only humans, should be responsible for what they do?
How else will HUMANity come to terms with itself?
7. NeoClown | April 2nd, 2008 at 11:49 am
“all the welfare programs in the world won’t do anything if we don’t demand that poor people with children form families in order to receive benefits.”
LOL. I’ve gotta see this. The republicans are gonna start forming all the poor people into families.
8. bagni | April 2nd, 2008 at 12:02 pm
markpark:
confused green ones must reach out and ask?
we thought you were against mccain?
now you’re for him?
are you turning into a bigger flipflopper
oops…i mean maverick than mccain?
the radarians always respected your strong views
now could you please ’splain this one to us lucy?
thanks in advance
9. TiredofLibBullSh** | April 2nd, 2008 at 12:08 pm
“Is there anything in this country that you wouldn’t hesitate to blame on liberals???”
The Great Society is solely responsible for the breakdown of the poor family. Those that receive “benefits” (a trifle to keep them dependent on liberal Democrats) are required to be NOT MARRIED!!! So, let’s see, get married, not elligible for benefits - stay single, elligible for benefits!
whoah! Who proposed the Great Society again? Who proposed all the other great social experiments that are failing??
DEMOCRATS - those who pander to the ignorant masses.
Joey, proudly, count yourself among them.
10. Joe | April 2nd, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Tired, I see you have given up on your USEFUL IDIOT comment on every thread and have moved on to….
DEMOCRATS - those who pander to the ignorant masses.
You’ve used it several times now. Who taught you that one?
11. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | April 2nd, 2008 at 12:17 pm
You cannot legislate and enforce “morality” and maintain a free society.
12. JackyPop | April 2nd, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Flip Flopping McSame…..
13. FoolYouTwice | April 2nd, 2008 at 12:25 pm
TiredofLibBullSh**, calling a large percentage of the American public ignorant and dumb has always been a winning election year tactic. Keep up the good work.
14. DBM | April 2nd, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Fred Malek, McCain’s National Finance CoChair
and former counter of Jews for the Nixon administration.
http://www.slate.com/id/2174788/fr/rss/
Seems Fred may prefer leaving the “Judeo” out of the “reasserting of Judeo-Christian morality” you’re advocating.
15. Sunny | April 2nd, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Blackie, on the other hand, is yet another example (in a long long line..) of the puerile snottiness that seems to pass for intellectual political discourse from the radical Left.
Alma-ranty
This is priceless coming from you.
16. SteaM | April 2nd, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Doncha just love the absolute total cluelessness of the rabid Right?
Take Almiranta, for example. She likes to posture as a political pundit, yet she seems to have completely missed the years of complaining that the President, and Congress, have abandoned too many of the basic tenets of Conservatism.
Evidently all the years of comments from conservatives (who, by the way, are proud of their conservatism and don’t feel the need to hide it behind weasel words designed to disguise it as something else…) who have been unhappy at seeing true conservative values set aside in favor of more spending and bigger government under a republican president and republican led 109th congress have just gone over Almeranta’s pointy little head.
Or maybe they never talked about it on Fox News or Bill Orielly’s radio show.
Mark, on the other hand, is yet another example (in a long long line..) of the puerile snottiness that seems to pass for intellectual political discourse from the radical Right.
But what both are trying to do is dodge the true issue, and the truth—that the problems listed are the direct result of politics and attitudes of a special interest and Corporate-led hijacking of the Republican party.
17. Tractatus | April 2nd, 2008 at 2:10 pm
LOL. I’ve gotta see this. The republicans are gonna start forming all the poor people into families.
Yeah, that was a great–though unintended–laugh line.
I’m curious how making people get married in order to receive welfare benefits doesn’t violate “the sanctity of marriage,” but two gay people who love each other trying to tie the knot is a direct assault on said sanctity.
I also liked this bit:
Our problems stem from the collapse of Judeo-Christian morality
To pick but one way out of many to shoot this down…Judeo-Christian morality teaches no sex before marriage, yes? So thanks to Bush and the faith-based initiatives, we’ve seen an increase in abstinence-only “education” that conforms with that Judeo-Christian morality. And what hath that “education” wrought? Higher rates of teen pregnancy, higher rates of STD infection. Meanwhile, the damn dirty liberals’ comprehensive sex ed–a major part of the alleged Destruction of Society at the Hands of The Left–reduces rates of teen pregnancy and STD infection.
In other words, the cold, hard facts directly contradict the narrative that underlies everything Noonan believes. He wants so desperately for it to be true that he simply accepts it as fact, meaning real facts (not the ones in Noonan’s head) must be discarded if they contradict with his beliefs.
And then he tells everybody else that they live in an alternate universe. So goes the tragicomedy.
18. Dennis | April 2nd, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Priceless to see Mark Noonan once more mounting the hobby horse of morality. You’ve already pounded that pathetic mount into irrelevance, bro.
“Our problems stem from the collapse of Judeo-Christian morality and only a re-assertion of such morality will save us from ultimate destruction as a nation.” News flash, Mark - our nation is founded on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, not Judeo-Christian morality, whatever your definition is of such a concept.
I personally choose Christianity as a way of life. But you can’t legislate religious morality, and attempting to do so is the very antithesis of what Jesus Christ taught, who famously said, “Render unto Ceasar the things which are Caesar’s, and to God the things which are God’s.” Some call that separation of church and state.
Jesus also said, “Let him who is thirsty come and drink freely of the water of life.” It doesn’t much sound like he’d approve of waterboarding. Using the Prince of Peace to defend war, as you did scarcely a week ago, is prima facie evidence that you just don’t get it.
You give lip service to trust in God and serving truth. There is an ancient law that reads, “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. For the Lord will not hold guiltless anyone who takes his name in vain.” That is an essential part of your Judeo-Christian heritage there, Mark. And taking the Lord’s name in vain is what you do every time you try to lob your partisan political agenda using Christianity as a catapult.
19. Joe | April 2nd, 2008 at 4:21 pm
McCain Has Yet to Win Over Key Conservatives
——- In other words…. Kiss our ass and we will think of voting for you.
But hey….. keep worrying about the Democrats and their convention. Don’t worry about your own house. Everything is peachy… nothing to see here.
20. NeoClown | April 2nd, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Mark,
You want mandatory morality? Here’s how it’s done.
”A couple found guilty of adultery by an Islamic “qazi” court was stoned to death by Taliban militants in Pakistan’s northwest border region, according to a report in Dawn, Pakistan’s English-language newspaper.
The execution, which reportedly took place Monday, is the first by stoning reported in the region, which borders Afghanistan. “Qazi” courts, which are allowed to administer Islamic law outside the Pakistani judicial system, traditionally have ordered execution by firing squad in cases of adultery.
The married woman, identified as Shano, had allegedly eloped on March 15 with Daulat Khan Malikdeenkhel.
A spokesman for the Taliban said a complaint had been received from the woman’s family that she had been abducted by Daulat Khan. They later changed the report to say she had run away with him.
Taliban militants captured the couple as they were returning from Karachi, the spokesman said.
Dawn reported that the woman’s body was buried by local residents not far from the execution site. The man’s body was handed over to his relatives for burial.’
21. Dennis | April 2nd, 2008 at 5:06 pm
NeoClown - here in America we don’t reference the Taliban to justify our positions, we reference the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
22. bongoman | April 2nd, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Morality?
You want to talk about morality while singing the praises of Dear Leader who led us into a supremely immoral war & occupation?
And you’re worried about people who aren’t married?
What a strange value system you have.
23. SteaM | April 2nd, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Some people believe that marriage is not necessary in terms of having a successful and healthy relationship. My self included.
Who are you tell them how to live?
24. Jeremiah | April 2nd, 2008 at 6:32 pm
It’s kind of difficult for me to trust Senator McCain on these moral issues, however, as for the prospect of him becoming President, even though he has shown difference on the issues at various points during his time as Senator, he will still work for the benefit of our citizenry; in solving these problems. As a Conservative, he can appoint good, moral, Christian Conservative judges to aid in policy making that would help to get the right cirriculum in our schools. Too, I believe, since he has an understanding of moral points as a Christian, I firmly believe that he would be more persuaded to uphold a Biblically based set of values. So we really don’t have much to lose, but instead, more to gain through Senator McCain in the respect that he has men of not only values, but of intelligence to ensure right decisions are implemented.
In any event, should either of the two Democratic prospects gain the White House, the protection of traditional marriage would be totally destroyed with finality, and anything we would say or do that would contradict those whose views embrace and celebrate the sinful lifestyle of Sodomy would criminalized and many Christians who find moral worth in the definition as stated in God’s Word would be sent to prison and half or all their savings depleted simply for sharing the Word of God with those folk who celebrate and flaunt their sickening, sinful lifestyles before the world. It would be a disastrous state of affairs, my friends. Also, on abortion, the destruction of human life would virtually explode before our eyes, as both Senator Obama and Clinton both agree with the destruction of innocent unborn children. Our schools from grades 6-12 would be teaching abortion on demand, as planned parenthood would use the funds created by the death of innocents to indoctrinate them. It would be a dark day for America…is the only way I can describe it too you.
Christians need to awaken to the potential threat that faces us come November, and use our knowledge in heeding God’s tender, loving direction. We are accountable to God for the decisions that we make, and I think it would be a terrible mistake for people to sit out this years election.
Just my take on this precarious situation.
–Jeremiah–
25. David B. Schmidt | April 2nd, 2008 at 6:44 pm
My point of view as a voting conservative is that I have not agreed with this President, nor the congresscritters, over the past seven plus years of this administration; nonetheless, I am going to vote and in this case (like several others) at the national level it isn’t who I am voting for but more like picking the lesser of three evils. In my case–so far anyway–that will be Sen. McCain.
26. Dennis | April 2nd, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Jeremiah says, “should either of the two Democratic prospects gain the White House…anything we would say or do that would contradict those whose views embrace and celebrate the sinful lifestyle of Sodomy would criminalized and many Christians who find moral worth in the definition as stated in God’s Word would be sent to prison.”
Huh?? If we elect a Democratic president many Christians will be sent to prison?
What a load of paranoid rubbish. Democrats don’t seek to criminalize ever more kinds of behavior; Republicans do. Especially Republicans of the evangelical variety.
27. Jeremiah | April 2nd, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Dennis,
As a Christian, God requires that I proclaim truth, and speak out against the sinful acts of Sodomites, in order to help in keeping a sense and voice of reason within the public square. Under Clinton or Obama, I would be arrested and sent to jail.
But it’s all good, just about all of Jesus disciples endured many hardships, persecution, and eventual became martyrs for the cause of proclaiming the truth, and likewise, I will do the same, never giving up on speaking truth, the most worthy cause a man can bestowe, in the eyes of the Lord.
–Jeremiah–
28. Casper | April 2nd, 2008 at 7:22 pm
“Under Clinton or Obama, I would be arrested and sent to jail.”
For what? You do realize that both Clinton and Obama are Christians don’t you?
29. Some Assembly Required | April 2nd, 2008 at 7:26 pm
27. Jeremiah | April 2nd, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Replace Christian, Jesus and God from your post with Islam, Mohammad and Allah and you have the definition of a fanatic Muslim (terrorist).
For you own sake man, read something other than the bible… preferably something contradictory which makes you think. I personally would recommend some Plato or Nietzsche both have a way of making you think outside the box. Shoot, even go out and rent the Da Vinci code as a hypothetical scenario.
Some of the worst atrocities in human history were committed because some priest said ‘God Wills It’.
You are entitled to your own beliefs and I respect your right to it. Saying that, I have no time for fanatics and frankly they scare me. Anyone willing to follow anything so blindly needs to get their head examined. IMO
30. Jeremiah | April 2nd, 2008 at 7:38 pm
SAR,
Just call me a ‘Crusader.’ We need ‘Crusaders’ for Christ.
The only difference in me and the Islamists (Terrorists), is that I don’t advocate or take a knife and stab people with it, like the Islamists do.
–Jeremiah–
31. Some Assembly Required | April 2nd, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Jeremiah,
You do know what ‘crusaders’ did in the name of God right?!?!?!
I don’t mean to defend the ‘Islamic terrorists’ here but if a Iranian bomb destroyed your house how hard would it be for you (or Evangelical Christians) to advocate or stab people?!?!?! Opposite sides of the same coin my friend. You just live under different circumstances.
I am hoping that your last post was sarcasm. In the event that it’s not, I suggest reading something other than the bible. I cannot stress that enough. Have your faith man, just don’t let it be the only thing you have.
32. Jeremiah | April 2nd, 2008 at 7:50 pm
For what?
Casper,
For telling the truth, which, by leftist standards is considered “hate speech.”
–Jeremiah–
33. Jeremiah | April 2nd, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Have your faith man, just don’t let it be the only thing you have.
SAR,
Faith’s the only thing there is, in this life, if I want to live to tell about it, and meet Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob all at the same time.
–Jeremiah–
34. bongoman | April 2nd, 2008 at 8:16 pm
What a bunch of crap - you’re blinded by faith. Your faith does not excuse your willful ignorance, authoritarianism and anti-intellectualism.
The more I read your posts, the more you seem like a parody troll Jeremiah.
35. Jeremiah | April 2nd, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Your faith does not excuse your willful ignorance, authoritarianism and anti-intellectualism.
Oh yeah, the world has always seen the Gospel as “ingnorance.” It’s ignorance to the world because the world (sinners) can’t understand it … that peace that sets the captives free from the burdensome slavery to sin.
It is worth it all in the end though, when all the Saints will be gathered Home!
–Jeremiah–
36. Gaijin | April 2nd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Mark,
So this breakdown of moral society, is the cause of all of America’s ills? I take it you believe many of the more secular European societies don’t uphold Judeo-Christian values, Yes?
That being the case, could you please explain why they have lower out of wedlock birthrates, STDs, crime rates, murder rates, and because of their evil Universal Healthcare system they live longer than Americans. Why is that?
Jeremiah,
Man, you never cease to crack me up. Seriously, whatever prescription meds they have you on, please tell me. A few of those and a fifth of whisky and I’ll be able to see the future.
Peace, Gaijin
37. Some Assembly Required | April 2nd, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Have fun with that… While we the ‘Meak’ inherit the Earth and enjoy our Mortality. After all MORTALITY is what makes being human, human. Can you really imagine snowboarding the alps if you knew you couldn’t get hurt or die. How about sky diving… All the pleasures in life would be meaningless. It’s the great equalizer. Kind of like rain.
38. Jeremiah | April 2nd, 2008 at 9:04 pm
After all MORTALITY is what makes being human, human
Yep. This body is indeed just mere mortal flesh and bone, however, within us, is the Spirit which will last for eternity. Within us is also the ability to choose, our immortal destiny.
As Christians, we can have the peace in knowing that we will inheret the riches that He’s prepared for us in Glory! Provided that we will only trust and serve Him through Faith.
And yes, there will be rough spots along the way when we encounter others who question in many way, ridicule you for Jesus name sake, but that’s where Faith truly shines the most.
–Jeremiah–
39. Some Assembly Required | April 2nd, 2008 at 9:13 pm
“Yep. This body is indeed just mere mortal flesh and bone, however, within us, is the Spirit which will last for eternity.”
Funny thing about the spirit and soul… Turns out those near death experiences or spiritual episodes may actually be explained by a chemical compound (DMT) the brain produces and which some plants contain. DMT :The Spirit Molecule
http://www.rickstrassman.com/pages/dmt/
40. ViralNexus | April 2nd, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Mark, Jeremiah, Tired, et al do’t want to live in a democracy- they want to live in a monarchy. The only thing they want for all Americans is to adhere to their ideas and belief systems. Furthermore, they feel that if people do not follow in their footsteps then they must be ditry liberals that are beneath them. The thing that Mark and especially Jeremiah don’t understand is that it is people like themselves that turn people away from Christianity. It is their hatred, biases, bigotry, “better than you” aire, and cultish personalities that show people a side of this religion that makes them look the other way. It isn’t the Church’s agenda that turns people off, it’s how that agenda is caried out. I live in a town of 12,000 people and I have counted at least 20 different churches and I’m sure there are more. It isn’t that God isn’t there it’s that people like Jeremiah overshadow God. Society is not killing religion, the church collective is killing religion.
41. Jeremiah | April 2nd, 2008 at 9:39 pm
SAR,
I read your article. It was interesting. I’d just like to add, that the author, of what little he know and understands of the human body, he can never know or understand the Spiritual real studying from a physical basis. That is our limits, placed upon us by God, Our Creator–Our powers are confined to our choices–He’s given us the universe to marvel in awe at, now it’s up to us to decide the basis for our existence. That’s the magnificence of it all, you see, He gave us the ability to look around and see all that there is, and then say to ourselves…’WOW! This is truly amazing! Where did all this come from? Man! Whoever did this, must sure care and love me and aweful lot!’
You see, unlike the angels who serve Him out of their will, we have a conscience to able to perceive all that was created for us, including ourselves!
–Jeremiah–
42. Dennis | April 2nd, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Jeremiah, you sound like a dedicated Christian, but I think you’re way too scared of Democrats. Don’t worry, if you explain that you don’t hate gay people I seriously doubt they’ll throw you in jail. Very seriously.
So since this thread is about morality, let’s talk about some other aspects of Christianity.
In Matthew 23:11, 12 Jesus said, “He that is greatest among you will be your servant. And whoever exalts himself will be abased; but he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Jesus also told his disciples to turn the other cheek when struck. In Romans 12 Paul said to “recompense no man evil for evil… If your enemy hungers, feed him; if he thirsts, give him to drink: for in doing so you will heap coals of fire on his head. Don’t be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.” In other words, vengeance is God’s business, not ours.
With America’s vast wealth and power we have the means not only to be a great servant but a historical inspiration to the world. Yet right now we’re spending billions of dollars a week making war, hunting down and killing people, making lots more enemies - when all this money could already have eliminated world hunger plus covered AIDS medicine, childhood immunizations and clean water for the developing world for years to come. Think about that.
As a Christian and a taxpayer, which of these courses do you think would be more consistent with Christian moral values? If you, Jeremiah, had the power to choose, would you want your tax dollars killing lots of people to take vengeance on what our enemies have done or might do to us, or should America instead focus on forgiveness, reconciliation and being a servant to humanity?
I’m trying to find your heart here, Jeremiah - are you a Christian like Jesus taught, or like the political people around you teach?
43. Jeremiah | April 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 pm
If you, Jeremiah, had the power to choose, would you want your tax dollars killing lots of people to take vengeance on what our enemies have done or might do to us, or should America instead focus on forgiveness, reconciliation and being a servant to humanity?
Dennis,
You might remember the discussion we had here about a month or more ago, in which I tried to explain this to you, evidently, it must have not paid any attention.
I’ll address you the same way I did then, but a little simpler:
War is sometimes an inevitable fact of life, for there comes a time when a nation or society of people must fight to keep their civilization alive.
I don’t think God wants to watch a nation of thousands upon thousands of people suffer at the hands of cruel and wicked dictators…as a matter of fact, when God heard the peoples cry for deliverance from the hands of Sodomites at Sodom and Gomorrah He just couldn’t sit by and watch as they suffered and not intervent for His people, so He delivered them from this tyrannic group of violent deviants.
The same way with Jericho, when God saw their wickedness in suppressing the truth, He then empowered Joshua and his Israelite army to deliver Jericho from the Canaanites, and they destroyed the entire place.
Also with Judah, who burned their babies alive, but throwing them into a raging furnace to Molech, and do you remember God telling them in Leviticus 18:21 - And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech.
As you shall see, they disobeyed Him and thus, He ordered the Babylonians through King Nebuchadnezzar to destroy Judah.
Little David, who slew the Giant for his wickedness. How did he do it? On Faith, and God used Him for His glory!
Do you think, that Jesus would condemn His own Fathers orders?
Do you think Jesus would want to have let those people continue in their state of devastation?
Did Jesus condemn the Gladiatorial sports? Or the trials where criminals were hung and then fed to the lions?
Jesus was a peaceful kind and generous, which is why we call Him the ‘Prince of Peace’, but you know, He said He never came to bring peace, but division, and you know what, the world is as divided today as it was when He ascended back into heaven. Interesting, huh?
There were many, many battles that took place; as they still do today. Now, any time that a battle takes place, it’s not just because He’s out to destroy the bad guys, He loves them as much as He does His followers, but He does it on behalf of His people who are seeking deliverance from the hands of wicked people, but when we want deliverance, He doesn’t just automatically give it, you’ve got to show that you are willing to put your Faith in Him that He is able to deliver, and…when we put forth and effort, He always comes through, it doesn’t matter how big the army, how great the task, he will see you through. He may entrust the fight to others if you aren’t able to do it on your own, He understands your situation, but faith is the key, integral player! God works in mysterious ways, but in the end, He will have you smiling! So don’t worry!
I think the defining wake-up call for 9/11/01 could have been for a couple reasons - One, is for the state of our own Nation, morally speaking. Two, He was saying - ‘Hey! your brothers and sisters in the Middle East are suffering and dying every day by the same kinds of people who did this to you. Wake Up! Pay attention, help your brothers and sisters…and that’s exactly what we did–and look, we are succeeding in Iraq, we’ve had no attacks since 9/11, everything’s gone pretty good, just as long as we remain alert and acknowledge that we certainly do have enemies who are of none other than Satan himself.
As a taxpayer, what little I pay for so much in return for the surge, is hardly enough on my part, I owe our Magnificent Men and Women in Uniform more than any words can express, I owe them my life….they have endured a great deal more than we can know, but they serve their country with honor in not only serving their country but our wonderful Christian brothers and sisters in the Middle East, who have been oppressed in suffering for hundreds of years.
Not everyone is going to accept Jesus’s kind and peaceful ways, because as He foretold, the world is going to continue as it has until He returns the final time, so there will be wars and rumors of wars. In the meantime, we musn’t let the struggle abroad distract us from the struggle from within, the situation there is pretty well under control. We must now concentrate on the greater struggle from within…if we don’t take care of the evil and moral dilemma here at home when we are at such a crossroads, then we stand in danger of God’s judgment on a more localized scale.
God is watching!
–Jeremiah–
44. Dennis | April 3rd, 2008 at 12:51 am
Spare yourself the many words, Jeremiah - you could have ansered me in one sentence. You don’t believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, you believe in the very popular social gospel of the American State. The Bible is just another tool you use to bring more power and glory to that gospel.
ViralNexus (post 40) had it just about right, with my own tweak: Society is not killing moral values, the church collective is killing them with its profound hypocrisy and moral relativism.
As for moral values, we’re far worse off when Americans think they can invade and kill others without just cause, all for the utopian ideal of spreading “democracy”.
And as for Iraq, your glorious American State didn’t free the Iraqis, it only plunged them into chaos and a future in which they will never regain the meager security and religious freedom they had under Saddam. Hail to the new Islamic republic (or whatever) of Iraqistan.
45. Gaijin | April 3rd, 2008 at 1:17 am
Jeremiah,
“Not everyone is going to accept Jesus’s kind and peaceful ways,”
Including yourself since you have tossed aside what Jesus said to justify your own view. Dennis is correct about you.
“As a taxpayer, what little I pay for so much in return for the surge, is hardly enough on my part”
Not you, nor any other American tax payer, has payed for the surge. It is being bank rolled by the Japanese and Chinese. You will have your opportunity to pay though in 10 years when the bills come due, $36,000 per family and counting.
Tax and spend liberals with their social programs, what a farce. Which two added more to the national debt than any other presidents? I will give you a hint, they don’t have a “D” next to their name.
Peace, Gaijin
46. Mark Noonan | April 3rd, 2008 at 2:09 am
Gaijin,
Crime rates are rapidly rising in Europe, and while they may have lower rates of illegiitmate births (an assertion of yours I highly doubt because of the collapse of marriage in Europe), this would proabably be more a function of the fact that they aren’t having children, period - the destruction of Judeo-Christian morality, far more advance in Europe than in America, has resulted in a dying Europe…there isn’t a country in Europe which is having children at replacement level…a century from now, Europe may be entirely Arab simply by the fact of Europeans not having children.
Death and destruction - that is all the abandonment of Judeo-Christian truth will get you.
47. Mark Noonan | April 3rd, 2008 at 2:12 am
As for the rest of you liberals - you are both clueless and cowardly. You won’t confront what I’ve said - you won’t, that is, defend your worthless, nihilistic and despairing worldview, but prefer to attack positions I haven’t even taken.
48. southerner | April 3rd, 2008 at 6:20 am
Deleted - obscenity
49. southerner | April 3rd, 2008 at 6:22 am
Mark Noonan:
If that’s the case, how come the secular Europeans have a homicide rate less than one third that of the USA?
50. David B. Schmidt | April 3rd, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Zones Urbaines Sensibles (Sensitive Urban Zones) are at 751 and counting for France alone.
Guess that is the beginning of the end because they (Europeans) don’t have the moral fortitude once they abandoned their Judeo-Christian beliefs for the more secular.
51. Dennis | April 3rd, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Mark, it is quite a stretch for you to call anyone cowardly. You and Matt delete some of the strongest posts against your own positions for being “off topic” when in fact you simply have nothing to rebut them with.
You make much of your vaunted “Judeo-Christian” values. This may be difficult for you to grasp, but for authentic Christians, Jesus Christ is transcendent. It is an insult, if not heresy, to insist on enmeshing Christianity with the very traditions Christ spent his entire ministry battling. The scribes and Pharisees, masters of Judaism, were not his allies but his adversaries.
Perhaps this is why you don’t get the separation of church and state, either. You insist on mixing the sacred with the profane, and in the end nothing is holy. Only hollow tradition remains. Like the scribes and Pharisees, what you worship is vanity, power and tradition. As Jeremiah demonstrates in post 43 it is more convenient to say nice things about Christ but dispense with what he actually taught.
It seems one who fancies himself such a theologian might ponder the deeper reason Christianity is so widely discredited in America today. How facile to blame it on liberals and your political adversaries. I would suggest you look in the mirror sometime and meet your own worst enemy.
52. Tractatus | April 3rd, 2008 at 1:49 pm
As for the rest of you liberals - you are both clueless and cowardly. You won’t confront what I’ve said
I confronted what you said; others have pointed out that negative social indicators are lower in Europe than in the U.S. You’re too clueless and cowardly to address these things, though…largely because the facts aren’t on your side, so all you have to go on is blind obedience to your uninformed opinion. That is your problem, not mine. I suggest you stop being such an ignorant little chicken and deal with it…but you won’t.
53. Dennis | April 3rd, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Tractatus, you’re correct. Others here have pointed out the same phenomenon between red and blue states. Does Mark correlate any of this with moral values? I posted this a few days ago and it was deleted for being off topic. I’ll try again:
In red states in 2001, there were 572,000 divorces, while blue states recorded 340,000.
In the same year, 11 red states had higher rates of divorce than any blue state.
In each of the red states of Louisiana, Mississippi, and New Mexico, 46.3 percent of all births were to unwed mothers, while in blue states, on average, that percentage was 31.7.
The per capita rate of violent crime in red states is 421 per 100,000, while in blue states, it’s 372 per 100,000. The per capita rate of murder and non-negligent manslaughter in Republican Louisiana is 13 per 100,000, while in Democratic Maine, it’s 1.2 per 100,000.
As of 2000, 37 states had statewide policies or procedures to address domestic violence. All 13 that did not were red states.
The 5 states with the highest rates of alcohol dependence or abuse are red states. The 5 states with the highest rates of alcohol dependence or abuse among 12- to 17-year-olds are also red states. The per capita rate of methamphetamine-lab seizures in liberal California is 2 per 100,000, while in conservative Arkansas, it’s 20 per 100,000.
The number of meth-lab seizures in red states increased by 38 percent from 1999 to 2003, while in the same time frame, it decreased by 38 percent in blue states.
Residents of the all-red Mountain States are the most likely to have had 3 or more sexual partners in the previous year, while residents of all-blue New England are the least likely to have had more than 1 partner in that span.
Residents of the liberal mid-Atlantic region of New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey were the most likely to be sexually abstinent, while residents of the conservative West-South Central region (Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana) were the least likely.
Five red states reported more than 400 cases of chlamydia per 100,000 residents in 2002 … No blue state had a rate that high.
The per capita rate of gonorrhea in red states was 140 per 100,000, while in blue states, it was 99 per 100,000.
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=8971
54. southerner | April 3rd, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Deleted - off topic, complains about comment policy.
55. Almiranta | April 3rd, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Nothing could more brilliantly illustrate the total and abject cluelessness of the radical Left than posts # 4, 5, and 16.
Joey, please try to keep up. You whine: “Please point to any of my comments where I complained “that the President, and Congress, have abandoned too many of the basic tenets of Conservatism.”
But you silly silly boy, I never said that at all. What I SAID was that YOU (Joe) have missed “…the years of complaining that the President, and Congress, have abandoned too many of the basic tenets of Conservatism.” The years of complaining BY CONSERVATIVES, Joey, about the abandoment of too many of the basic tenets, etc. etc.
But this obtuseness shows how and why you can be so totally wrong on topic after topic. You are kind of like the Lefty Emily Litella, except you never have the intellectual courage to say “Never mind….”
BTW, FYT, it is true that some people—not many, but some—did say they would never vote for McCain, because he does NOT embody as much true conservatism as we would like to see in a candidate.
Of these, most have realized that the position of “I’m so mad at you I am going to poke myself in the eye” is not a very productive one, and have also realized that McCain could be a whole lot less conservative than he is and still be vastly better than the two socialists running on the Dem side.
You may not realize how far Left a candidate has to be to make Hillary look like a better option—and both of them make McCain look like a knight in shining armor.
Which is undoubtedly why you all are working on slight revisions to your Politics of Personal Destruction manual, going after McCain on the silliest and flimsiest of allegations rather than on issues.
And SteaM is reverting back to his VapoR mentality, trying to act cute but really just illustrating the paucity of his positions—which seem to be snotty, snottier, and plageristic snotty.
56. southerner | April 3rd, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Ahh, more fact-free made-up BULLSHIT courtesy of Mark Noonan. Mark, where do you get your information that “crime rates in Europe are rapidly rising”?
It is nororiously difficult to ascertain accurate comparisons of crime rates between countries due to problems with definition (is a stolen car counted if it is merely reported as stolen? if it is the subject of a stolen car court case? if it it is merely reported as missing, etc. etc.).
Every country maintains statistics different ways and there is basically no good way to compare data. However one dataset is pretty unambiguous - the homicide rate. Everyone knows what homicide looks like and since it is such a serious crime homicide levels are kept VERY accurately.
So, what does the homicide rate tell us when we compare America to Europe? Here’s what it tells us - European countries have, on average, less than one third the homicides America has per capita.
Source? (you have heard of something called sources, haven’t you Mark? Cause frankly statements from you without sources don’t have much crecibility):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate
Here are some sample murder rates per 100,000 population:
USA: 5.9 (this may be a reporting anomaly, for most years since 2000 the rate has been above 7)
Finland: 2.75
Sweden: 2.39
United Kingdom: 2.03
Portugal: 1.79
Poland: 1.64
France: 1.64
Belgium: 1.5
Spain: 1.25
Italy: 1.23
Germany: 0.98
Ireland: 0.91
Denmark: 0.79
Norway: 0.78
Greece: 0.76
Also, in terms of incarceration the US has an imprisonmnet level 6 - 10 times that of all major European countries. Hardly the sign that Europe has a high crime rate:
• The United States has the highest rate of incarceration IN THE WORLD at 726 prisoners per 100,000 people.
• The next highest levels are Russia, Belarus, and Bermuda, all with a rate of 500 - 600 prisoners per 100,000 people. (nice company to be in, huh?)
• Western European nations have much lower rates, with England and Wales at 142, Germany at 96, and France at 91 per 100,000 people. Many other large countries have rates which are even lower.
You might also find the following of (depressing) interest:
A record 7 million people — one in every 32 U.S. adults — were behind bars, on probation or on parole by the end of last year, a Justice Department report released yesterday shows.
Of those, 2.2 million were in prison or jail, an increase of 2.7 percent over the previous year, according to the report.
SOURCE: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/30/AR2006113000912.html
But of course Europe is a Godless bastion of secular liberalism so it must be worse than the USA in your little world, right Mark? Facts be damned.
57. Dennis | April 4th, 2008 at 12:00 am
Almiranta, as for cluelessness you are pretty close to the top. Some weeks ago you ridiculed me for suggesting the Bush admin had violated the Geneva Conventions, and declared unequivocally that they do not apply to non-state combatants in the war on terror. You got so carried away displaying your vocabulary you never bothered to discover that in June of 2006 the Supreme Court found Bush’s military tribunals in violation of both U.S. law and the Geneva Conventions, which do indeed apply to all detainees in the war on terror (see http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1151571924985 , http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5169600.stm )
Now you are off on the same tiresome rant. Different day, same old sh*t. If I may quote, this obtuseness shows how and why you can be so totally wrong on topic after topic. We know your game, we skip over your long-winded, condescending polemics because they never say anything new. Mark ‘n’ Matt tolerate you because you attack liberals with mechanical predictability and without such cover they would stand here naked.
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