29 Comments

• 1. js  |  April 11th, 2008 at 9:19 am

  its hypocricy when they authorize the use of force in prisons and stun guns by police as a means to manipulate behavior of unruly citizens, and the death penalty as punishment for serious crimes, but spanking a kid is illegal? lol, too much california soap and this is what you get…..

  maybe they want to just open orphanages state wide and require that all children be deposited in them after they are weaned.

• 2. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J.  |  April 11th, 2008 at 9:23 am

  Lieber is right in her ideal but such a law would be virtually unenforceable without unconsitutional intrusion into the homes of citizens and undue burden on law enforcement.

• 3. kimberly4victory  |  April 11th, 2008 at 10:07 am

  Lieber is not right. Thomasson is right. And, who would know better? An assemblyman? Or the president of the Campaign for Children and Families?

  Can you imagine the number of families, who occassionally punish their children by spanking, being labeled as child abusers? Where will their children go? Into fostercare?

• 4. Diane Tomlinson  |  April 11th, 2008 at 10:13 am

  All violence agisnt children is abhorrent. Period. I’m not going to be sucked into some wild Bibilcal debate about something so very simple. I don’t think kids should be beaten and I’m sure many parents in California disagree and if they want to beat their kids I think that is horrible but at the end of the day 1) they aren’t hitting me 2) they have to deal with whatever comes out of their own abuse [my opinion ] of their kids and 3) it’s none of my business.

  Being able to spank your kid in your own home or even in the grocery store line is your right as you see it. I think I would if I were an America have the right to marry another woman. Neither of these things accords harm to any other person. And I know K4V you are going to go on about how the gay marriage thing threatens society. My quick response and beating your kids doesn’t?

• 5. kimberly4victory  |  April 11th, 2008 at 10:31 am

  DT: Read through EVERY single thread on this blog and find ONE post from me about how gay marriage threatens society. You are right that I do not agree with gay marriage, however, I am okay with civil unions. Shock!

  There is a difference between beating your kids and spanking them occassionally. I personally do not spank, although, I did smack Kendall on the arm once for swearing at me. She has never done it again.

• 6. Leo Pusateri  |  April 11th, 2008 at 10:41 am

  I don’t think kids should be beaten

  There are already laws on the books for that…

  We’re talking spanking, here…

• 7. uffy  |  April 11th, 2008 at 11:00 am

  Let’s see if I’ve got this correct: Spanking is child abuse and not a right of a parent, but sucking a baby out of the womb and killing it is a right. Sounds about normal for this warped society.

• 8. OhioOrrin  |  April 11th, 2008 at 11:08 am

  my rule was to use my hand.

  if it hurt me, then it hurt them.

• 9. js  |  April 11th, 2008 at 11:58 am

  7. uffy | April 11th, 2008 at 11:00 am
  Let’s see if I’ve got this correct: Spanking is child abuse and not a right of a parent, but sucking a baby out of the womb and killing it is a right. Sounds about normal for this warped society

  ——————————————-

  you forgot one

  demanding that donations paid are applied to insure that a specific race of child is killed to limit that races population is a right, but spanking a child is illegal

• 10. Timothy Horrigan  |  April 11th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

  I just thought I would point out that the bill hasn’t passed yet… hence it is a little misleading to say that it represents the views of “California lawmakers.” In fact even the excerpt Leo posted mentions that the bill was “repeat of legislation introduced last year”… and why did have to be repeated? Because it didn’t pass the first time, that’s why!

• 11. js  |  April 11th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

  its just another step toward socialist values where the state can dictate everything

  even thoughy it hasnt passed into law, its opposes everything that liberty represents in america, and what the old USSR clung to for dear life right up to the end….

• 12. Leo Pusateri  |  April 11th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

  I see that the irony present in this post continues to be lost on the lib posters here.

  Again. Liberals. Can’t. Link.

• 13. InDaVa  |  April 11th, 2008 at 1:52 pm

  I say if your kid is being bad..go ahead and spank away. Glad i don’t live in California.

• 14. Some Assembly Required  |  April 11th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

  Heres a Solution… Put 8 or 10 oranges in a pillow case and have at it. They don’t leave bruises. ridiculous law if it passes but I highly doubt it will.

• 15. Diana Powe  |  April 11th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

  No need to let any actual reading of the legislation to get in the way of some hysterical reporting (emphasis added):
  

  This bill would authorize the finder of fact to consider the use of an implement, the throwing, kicking, burning, or cutting of a child, the striking of a child with a closed fist, the striking of a child under 3 years of age on the face or head, the vigorous shaking of a child under 3 years of age, the interference with a child’s breathing, or the brandishing of a deadly weapon upon a child when determining whether or not a defendant willfully caused any child to suffer, or inflicted unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering on a child. Proof of the listed conduct would not be, by itself, enough to prove guilt and the weight and significance of the conduct is for the finder of fact to decide. This bill would also authorize the court to order a person convicted of this offense into a nonviolent parental education class as a condition of probation, if appropriate.
  __________
  Source: http://www.assembly.ca.gov/acs/acsframeset2text.htm

  Yes, those insane California legislators. How could they possibly justify letting a judge or a jury consider evidence of a parent burning their child, cutting their child, restricting their child’s breathing or brandishing a deadly weapon towards their child? They must be truly deranged.

• 16. js  |  April 11th, 2008 at 5:53 pm

  (b) Any person who, under circumstances or conditions likely to produce great bodily harm or death, willfully causes or permits any child to suffer, or inflicts thereon unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering, or having the care or custody of any child, willfully causes or permits the person or health of that child to be injured, or willfully causes or permits that child to be placed in a situation where his or her person or health is endangered, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison for two, four, or six years.

  ———————————–

  any “unjustifiable” pain? according to whom, the bills sponsor? she owns a cat, not one single live child though….

  ————————————–

  (c) Any person who, under circumstances or conditions other than those likely to produce great bodily harm or death, willfully causes or permits any child to suffer, or inflicts thereon unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering, or having the care or custody of any child, willfully causes or permits the person or health of that child to be injured, or willfully causes or permits that child to be placed in a situation where his or her person or health may be endangered, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

  ————————————————

  any pain or injury….again, the any pain part….its spanking

  —————————————-

  looks like you should have read the whole bill Diana…..

• 17. js  |  April 11th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

  sorry, not any pain or injury, but any pain or mental suffering….

  like go to bed without dinner….

  what a farce

• 18. BARRASSO  |  April 11th, 2008 at 6:18 pm

  Government interference has gotten out of hand it is like the Bush government doesn’t care about liberty or something. Next thing you know the FBI will show up and intimidate you if you decide against the government in a trial!

  http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=10095#comments

• 19. Diana Powe  |  April 11th, 2008 at 6:28 pm

  js,

  Obviously, you didn’t read the key portion:
  

  Proof of the listed conduct would not be, by itself, enough to prove guilt and the weight and significance of the conduct is for the finder of fact to decide,

  It is only a measure of the hysteria of the religious right that anyone could keep a straight face and claim that this bill, if it became law, would “outlaw spanking.” Someone obviously needs to get a grip.

• 20. scootenat65  |  April 11th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

  DP you are absolutely right. In my many years as a Child Protective Services worker, early childhood and parenting educator and parent I find the comments of Randy Thomasson absurd.
  Unfortunately, I experienced first hand the damage done by what some parents called “spanking”. And at times in the name of God.
  Six month olds with broken bones and permanent brain damage because they would not mind.
  I never knew of a case, among the 1000s that I am was either involved in or passed through the agency I worked for in which a parent was penalized for appropriately “spanking” their child.

• 21. Diana Powe  |  April 11th, 2008 at 9:28 pm

  scootenat65,

  I’m sure that the fact that Thomasson is head of an organization that is dependent on donations has nothing to do with his loopy “spanking will be outlawed” declarations.

• 22. Mortimer  |  April 11th, 2008 at 9:51 pm

  These legislators are elected by the people so they act with some modicum of popular support. Obviously the gray mass of California voters agree. tehy get what they deserve. But puhleez spare us your government knows best whine when your all seeing and knowing little theocon god figure head got us into a war in Iraq as well as authorizing a bunch of secret, government spying and imprisonment programs which clearly abrogates existing standards of civil rights and executive power.

• 23. Diana Powe  |  April 11th, 2008 at 10:03 pm

  The Campaign for Children and Families believes the bill is aimed at “good parents who occasionally spank their children.” The group warns that police and prosecutors will view all parents who spank their children as suspected child abuses worthy of investigation.

  After all, who else could Randy Thomasson “believe” the bill is “aimed at”? He’s trolling for money. I can really see all the “police and prosecutors” now with their narrowed eyes “view[ing] all parents who spank their children as suspected child abuses (sic) worthy of investigation.” After all, there’s such a shortage of child abuse cases in California involving serious bodily injury or death that they need to file a few spanking cases to build their credibility with the public at large.

  This is definitely one of Leo’s most lame posts yet.

• 24. js  |  April 11th, 2008 at 10:31 pm

  19. Diana Powe | April 11th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
  js,

  Obviously, you didn’t read the key portion:

  ———————————————

  not so fast diana powe

  did you read the first article on the bill…you know….you should, you posted the articulate loop hole above…the one that said “to consider the use of an implement”…to be straight forward, the use of mental abuse as an instrument of harm, or corporeal punishment that may cause mental suffering…as an implement to cause harm…and which can also be considered….as an open hand that causes mental suffering, even without physical harm….

  ohh diana, you of little thought, do you actually think this omits any other type of punishment….with the record of judges legislating from the bench….to allow them the scope this loop hole gives them to determine the scope of mental anguish that is legal or not, to allow them to jail a parent for sending thier kid to bed as an implementation of punishment..or even the mental .it will open the door that was slammed shut last year, when they put down the last insult to parents….our rights are far more precious that to let the state dictate how we raise our kids…to let some welfare busy body to tell the kids that if they suffer from mental anxiety or distress that they can get back at mom and dad for taking thier car or skate board away….this is an offence against liberty, state institutions have no right to interfere with parental guardianship of thier own children unless actual injuries are sustained…not “emotional distress” or a good swat on the tush for cause…

  too much power to an imperfect machine it is…not worthy of any government…. but communism…

• 25. Diana Powe  |  April 11th, 2008 at 10:51 pm

  js,

  You just keep lying awake at night in a cold sweat of fear over the parents waiting to be jailed for “sending thier (sic) kid to bed” or “taking thier (sic) car or skate board away”. I’ll live over here in reality and imagine the reactions of incredulity and disdain directed at the first police investigator or child protection case worker who tries to file a case on such patently baseless grounds. Of course, it wouldn’t happen because no investigator or case worker idiotic enough to try it would ever get past their first level of supervision because the supervisor wouldn’t want their agency to become a worldwide laughingstock. Their subsequent performance evaluation that ripped them to shreds for wasting agency time and resources when their is a tidal wave of genuine child abuse would not be pretty.

  Paranoid much?

• 26. js  |  April 11th, 2008 at 11:03 pm

  the way you post here DP, i would actually fear for your victims as a police officer…someone who imposes opinion the way you do is dangerous with that power

  the truth is, people like you would trash the rights of honest people so you can get ahead, that opportunity should never arise in america

  “patently baseless grounds” is actually what our duped legal system justifies when they feel do goody two shoes and run over the rights of parents, the are horror stories enough to fill books about the abuse of power, which you obviously endorse by backing this bill…that the state should never have

• 27. Jeremiah  |  April 11th, 2008 at 11:08 pm

  Spanking saves a lot of children. It saves them from becoming murderers, rapists, theives etc, etc.

• 28. Diana Powe  |  April 11th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

  js,

  If you actually knew something about how such processes work in the real world and not in the fevered imaginations of people trying to gin up dollars for their organizations you wouldn’t waste your time with this fake issue. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that even Randy Thomasson knows that the “outlawing spanking” canard is just that, but is happy to exploit the fears of people like you to generate a little cash for the organization that pays his salary.

  But, go right ahead, keep seeing those pictures in your head of Detective Smith handing a file to their sergeant and saying, “I’ve wrapped up this case of the parent making their kid go to their room and causing them mental anguish, Sarge.” “Good work, Smith. Now how’s that taking away the skateboard case coming?” Maybe it could be an episode on Law and Order.

  As I said, “Paranoid much.”

• 29. js  |  April 12th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

  more double talk DP

  like I said, the loopholes in that consideration for judges to legislate new law and impose state authority over parents is just way, too huge…people like you, with an agenda instead of seeking to fulfill justice, can and will abuse the wording of the bill to accomplish an agenda that the producers of the bill hid in the technical definitions of these words….words that would allow a simple smack on the behind to be considered sufficient for a crime…..

  you assume I am ignorant yet you ignore the huge error in this bill…not only are these issues already covered manyfold by other laws, as child protective services has been working against child abuse for half a century now, but in reality, you jest the nature and potential to diminish its reality…your halfwitted approach to the point i made is sufficient to see how you actually handle things….i coundnt trust you as a law enforcement officer any more than i could trust micky mouse to defend the kids in school from gay and lesbian clubs….debating this with you is a waste of time because you are corrupt…