The Multi-Culti Pretzel (Bumped, Again)
April 12th, 2008 at 02:33am Mark Noonan
We seem to be having a bit of fun with this one, so lets have at it some more.
And still having fun with it…
Thank you, liberalism, for making this possible:
Two primary schools have withdrawn storybooks about same-sex relationships after objections from Muslim parents.
Up to 90 gathered at the schools to complain about the books which are aimed at pupils as young as five.
One story, titled King & King, is a fairytale about a prince who turns down three princesses before marrying one of their brothers.
Another named And Tango Makes Three features two male penguins who fall in love at a New York zoo.
Bristol City Council said the two schools had been using the books to ensure they complied with gay rights laws which came into force last April.
They were intended to help prevent homophobic bullying, it said.
But the council has since removed the books from Easton Primary School and Bannerman Road Community School, both in Bristol.
A book and DVD titled That’s a Family!, which teaches children about different family set-ups including gay or lesbian parents, has also been withdrawn.
The decision was made to enable the schools to “operate safely” after parents voiced their concerns at meetings.
What to do, what to do? Just how will our liberals square this circle? They must accord special rights to the Moslem minority, but they also need to accord special rights to the gay minority - and as the Moslem minority has a subset bent on beheading the gay minority, just how are we to “all get along”? Will more welfare make everyone play nice? Perhaps Obama can head over there and organize the Gay and Moslem communities into a loving fellowship?
Conservatives have no problem with this - we hit the gay rights people over the head with a two by four as a means of emphasising the point that you don’t teach five year olds about homosexuality; we then re-employ that same two by four on the Moslems who pitched a fit as a means of hammering home (as it were) the need to respect freedom of speech in the West. As conservatives, we find endless uses for the “two by four” debate method - though we find at times that only high explosives can solve the really tricky problems (al Qaeda, Berkeley, eg).
I don’t suppose that this impass with convince liberals that, you know, justice should be the goal? That, just perhaps, people should be treated as people and not as “gay”, “black”, “female”, “Moslem”, etc?
Entry Filed under: Foreign Affairs, Immigration, Kook Left, Popular Culture, Racial Issues, Religion, War on Terror
288 Comments
1. Plantation Owner | April 8th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
To prevent homophobic bullying?
Riiiiiigggggghhhhhht.
There are ways to educate against bullying…all bullying. Making homosexuality to appear normal is just another indoctrination technique to make the unnatural lifestyle acceptable.
Especially, if they were indoctrinating the youth. I remember reading C Wright’s post as to how outraged he was when his daughter was being taught “theory of God” by the CATHOLIC school he enrolled his daughter. That is like sending his daughter to the pool and not expecting her to get wet! Teaching his young daughter to pray was indoctrination as he and many libs point out.
Do these same libs consider teaching homosexuality as normal to our youth as indoctrination or normal?
2. majoriot | April 8th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
At what age would you propose teaching children about homosexuality?
3. Tractatus | April 8th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
we then re-employ that same two by four on the Moslems who pitched a fit as a means of hammering home (as it were) the need to respect freedom of speech in the West.
…and then you dutifully avoid using that two by four on your fellow wingnutty Christians who pitch the exact same bitch that these Muslims are pitching. Because, you know, it’s OK for Christians to do it (and if you resist, then you are engaging in “anti-Christian bigotry”).
So, Noonan…how do you square the circle, hmmm? Are you siding with the evil, evil gays or the evil, evil Muslims?
4. Bigfoot | April 8th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Let’s see now. If Christians had protested these storybooks, the left would quickly charge them with hate. But Muslims protest, and the storybooks disappear.
At what age would you propose teaching children about homosexuality?
I’d say around 12 or 13, when sexuality in general is more comprehensible that it is to 6 or 7 year olds. I would let the children decide for themselves, with guidance from their parents, what to believe (if anything) about the morality of homosexuality.
5. FoolYouTwice | April 8th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Mark, can you try and not contradict yourself in the same post:
They were just teaching the five year olds about people, not homosexuals Mark. Unless you mean that you see and treat them as homosexuals, and not people. What a sick bastard you are.
Could you make this challenging for us sometime?
6. majoriot | April 8th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Bigfoot,
Problem is, homosexuality should be presented as soon as heterosexuality is.
These stories seem to be a fine way to introduce the concept as a natural occurence in our human system of living. This way you do it without fanfare or comment.
7. kimberly4victory | April 8th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
I wouldn’t want those books in my child’s elementary school. Parents should be the ones to decide whether or not to teach their children about homosexuality, not an elementary school.
8. Freedom1 | April 8th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Bwahahaha! I saw this story a few days ago. I knew I should have posted it earlier because I knew that Mark would get a kick out of it. LOL! It was just a matter of time before this happened.
_________________________________
The Diversity Show, Starring Michelle Obama: ‘We Need More White People’
“Michelle Obama speaks at presidential rally in Skibo Gym” - The Tartan Online
9. keefer | April 8th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
They were just teaching the five year olds about people, not homosexuals Mark.
Puhleeze, TwiceTheFool, wake up. How delusional can one be? You know the agenda of those indocrination centers known as public schools. Alas, you ascribe to their agenda, so there’s no hope for you.
Maybe you’re the sick bastard…
10. Tractatus | April 8th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
The Diversity Show, Starring Frank Luntz
Backdrop is very important. There, he’s got an African-American, he’s got an Asian, there’s your female…. You wanna make sure that there’s at least one or two Asians.”
11. FmrMarine | April 8th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
majoridiot;
>>>>These stories seem to be a fine way to introduce the concept as a natural occurence in our human system of living.<<<<
There are some who disagree!
but not the way the cult of islam does!
24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men
and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind and to things that should not be done. 29They were filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32They know God’s decree, that those who practice such things deserve to die — yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them.
12. Freedom1 | April 8th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Simple. They will wait for the Muslim minority to “take care of” the gay minority and then there will just be the Muslim minority left.
/WAKE UP, PEOPLE. Physical attacks on gays by Muslims have been escalating elsewhere in Europe for years.
13. FmrMarine | April 8th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
“To prevent homophobic bullying?”
HOW ABOUT………..
PREVENTING…….Homosexual………
1. cruising!
2. recruiting.
3. harassing straights for sex.
4. bringing it up in EVERY conversation.
5. identifying one by their perverted sexual practices.
6. forcing their agenda on everyone else.
7. forcing their lifestyle in the military, the boy scouts, private clubs, social activities.
8. special treatment under the law.
9. hate crimes.
10. anti Christian attacks.
gay parades.
11. gay pride
etc to nausiem!!!
Maybe just maybe if all the above were stopped the resentment of this profane lifestyle shoved in everyones face may end the “bullying”, which is a backlash.
14. Tractatus | April 8th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
…but you’re not homophobic, right FmrMarine?
15. keefer | April 8th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Maybe just maybe if all the above were stopped the resentment of this profane lifestyle shoved in everyones face may end the “bullying”, which is a backlash.
Period.dot.bingo!!!
If these activists acted like my daughter’s best friend, a gay man, nobody would care about their preferences, other than some far-right loons.
Yes, there are loons on the far right. However, all lefties are kooks; therein lies the difference…
16. Rana Quijotesca | April 8th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
I thought that gay people just wanted to serve in the military… not make the Army wear pink camo…
17. Robert | April 8th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
“If these activists acted like my daughter’s best friend, a gay man, nobody would care about their preferences, other than some far-right loons.” - Keefer”
Wow, I actually agree with you wholeheartedly here, which will be proof of my point in a minute. I think that many gays who are flambouyant and desperately seeking attention make anyone else in their community look bad. But you must understand that it is not their lifestyle that is a problem, it is their ATTITUDE.
Being gay is not wrong, but being a drama queen is. This also applies to countless straight people who are constantly seeking attention.
“Yes, there are loons on the far right. However, all lefties are kooks; therein lies the difference… - Keefer”
This statement I DO have issue with. It is just simply NOT TRUE!!!!
Not all Liberals are evil kooks as you, Jeremiah, and especially Mark seem to think.
It is not true. It is you Conservatives being prejudiced against others and CONCEITED and ARROGANT!!
I am a Liberal of sorts and I DO NOT always think that all Conservatives are evil. However, many of you here are “kook” Conservatives who hate Liberals.
All Conservatives are not bad, just the neocons who arrogantly impose THEIR lifestyle down everyone’s throat and ARROGANTLY assume they are right and everyone else who is not Christian or Republican is wrong. THEY are the ones being judgemental of others.
It is not about being conservative, it is about a certain attitude. Many of you here, especially Mark Noonan, is giving in to this attitude of hate. All you people do is HATE Liberals without giving their point of view a chance. If you ever actually LISTENED to other peope instead of the conceited and smug chant in your heads, you might learn something. You and a Liberal might even agree on something!!!
18. FmrMarine | April 8th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
T
>>>but you’re not homophobic, right FmrMarine?<<<
DONT ask DONT tell = NO problem.
force your sexual agenda on me ….BIG problem.
19. Joe | April 8th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
For cryin’ out loud, its not like they are teaching them HOW TO BE gay.
Are you upset when there is a picture of a black father and white mother?
Maybe you people get all freaked out when you see a christian marrying a jew? Or maybe your head spins when you see a latino mother and an asian father?
20. Tractatus | April 8th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
DONT ask DONT tell = NO problem.
force your sexual agenda on me ….BIG problem.
So you would be quiet, then, if we applied the above logic to religious beliefs? As long as you shut the hell up about them and don’t try to impose them on others, no problem, right?
21. What? | April 8th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
The school district should not have backed down. The books should have stayed in the schools, plain and simple.
If the parents wanted to remove the books from the schools they should have used the legislative process. By allowing a small vocal minority to overturn the will of the people, the school district is not performing its service to the community.
Also, Mark, have you ever met a “liberal?” You have really dreamed up a frightening and horribly inaccurate enemy.
22. Timothy Horrigan | April 8th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
This story is going around the right side of the blogosphere. A little Googling reveals that two of these blog entries are:
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/muslims-force-primary-schools-to-shelve-homosexual-books-for-little-children/
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/apr/08040304.html
The second of these is a Canadian blog, the first a British blog. The story is in fact a British story. Although there are many towns in the USA named “Bristol,” this Bristol is Bristol, England.
I just thought I would mention this fact, which is absent from Mark’s posting. American liberals had nothing to do with this… and even in Britain it is more a way of protecting a large ethnic minority (South Asians) from harassment than from an excess of “liberalism.”
Of course I am a liberal myself, and I am not exactly sure what is “liberal” about Islam aside from the fact that Islamic fundamentalists oppose George W. Bush’s invasion of Iraq.
23. ViralNexus | April 8th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Not only is that a horribly worded sentence it is also EXTREMELY hypocritical. You want people to be treated as people Mark yet you and your ilk support legislation that targets homosexuals. I’m pretty sure a Constitutional ban on gay marriage would NOT be treating people as people. Minority rights do have to be protected Mr. Noonan. Had they not I’m pretty sure blacks and women would still not be allowed to vote.
I love how people like FmrMarine consistently gripe that they are having the “homosexual agenda” pushed on them. Exactly how is the plight of homosexuals affecting you on a personal level. I know the idea of marital rights being extended to gays is enough to make you cringe but exactly how does that constitute an infringement on your daily activities. Oh no, gay pride parades take place- that must be a horrible inconvenience for you. I hope that you people have more important things to worry about because if not I would have to say that is pretty pathetic.
24. js | April 8th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Whats really strange is that one day, homosexuality was a mental illness, and tons of study had been done to prove it, and the next day, the APA makes a political maneuver to pacify sodomites, without one iota of scientific study, and claims all those decades of research were all lies.
There are still psychologists trying to find exactly what scientific evidence they used, but there isnt any. We have been served a lie by a pro homosexual propoganda machine with a political ambition.
Homosexuality is a cover story for sodomy. The conotations that sodomy brings to mind is truely offensive to parents, and rightly should be. Teaching our children about sodomy, as if it were a natural and normal behavior, is a lie.
Sodomy, and the whole homosexual theme, is a deviant sexual lifestyle filled with disease and death. On average, sodomites have over 20 (as many as over a hundred) sexual encounters with different people every year. The lifestyle itself is filled with drugs and alchoholism, 25-33% suffer addiction issues. 78% are affected by STD’s, and thier life expectancy is over 1/3 less than the average non-homosexual is in society (studies cited 42%).
There is nothing normal nor honorable in that lifestyle to teach children about. Christians have been fighting to keep this out of schools for years, but liberals side with the mental cases and support the deviant sexual behavior being taught at schools as natural and normal when it is anything but natural or normal.
We own our kids much more than this. We have to stop the sodomites from perverting the youth in this country.
25. Mark Noonan | April 8th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Viral,
My ilk doesn’t target homosexuals - we do, however, defend morality….and morality includes the self evident truth that homosexual sex is inherently disordered. It may be engaged in, and none of us has the right to stop two consenting adults from doing what they like - within reason - behind their closed doors…but to teach that homosexuality is morally the same as heterosexuality is to teach a lie.
As a Christian, I have bigger fish to fry than whether or not a couple close friends of mine engage in odd sexual behaviour - in the end, the judgement to be placed upon them is up to them, and God. I pray for all my friends - and even you - to turn towards God and seek his love, but in the grand scheme of things, homosexual sex rates a lot lower in the realm of social pathologies than, say, the systemic attack on the family by the State, or the pervasive pornography and violence in our popular culture - and as I’ve pointed out before, there are plenty of active homosexuals closer to God than many a priest or minister. In other words, I’ve no place to judge a gay person for having gay sex - but I do have a moral obligation to uphold truth, even if this hurts some feelings out there.
Be all that as it may, it is absurd to teach a five year old about sex at all, let alone about gay sex - teach them to love their neighbors as they love themselves, and you’ll have done a lot more for social peace than any “Heather Has Two Mommies” bit of leftwing bilge. What matters, if they have been taught to love, what a person actually is? Teach them to love, Viral, and leave the peculiarities of human behaviour to be discovered in their own good time.
26. Mark Noonan | April 8th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Fool,
No, those five year olds were being treated as slaves of the State - to be indoctrinated into a particular set of values mostly at odds with the traditional morality most of them come from.
27. Jeremiah | April 8th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Sodomy, as in all lies that are from the father of lies himself, Satan…any Nation that accepts, embraces, and celebrates them, will bring disaster upon that country.
Deuteronomy 28:15-36
If you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country. Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed. The fruit of your womb will be curses, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks. YOu will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out. The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking Him. The LORD will plague you with diseases until He has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. The LORD will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. The LORD will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed. The LORD will cause you to be defeated before your enemies (Read: America Alone. By Mark Steyn). You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. The LORD will afflict you with boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. The LORD will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. At midday you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you. You will be pledged to marry to a woman, bu another will take her and ravish her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. Your ox will be slaughtered (by islamists) before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you (See Socialism) and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. The sights you see will drive you mad. The LORD will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head. The LORD will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your fathers.
And in verse 49 it says - The LORD will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young.
(SEE: AFGHANISTAN/SYRIA/IRAN/ISLAM)
Just like Sodom and Gomorrah, Just like Egypt, Just like Babylon, Just like Jericho, Just like Judah, they all disobeyed God, and fell by the way-side into the “ditches” of history.
Please wake up, before it’s too late…
28. Kahn | April 9th, 2008 at 1:07 am
All I know is next time something pisses me off, I’m telling everyone I’m Muslim. Because everyone knows that in Islam, hatred, mayhem, and murder are all acceptable under many circumstances.
The Catholics may let you drink, but Muslims let you kill your daughter for wearing lipstick. Doesn’t get better than that.
29. What? | April 9th, 2008 at 2:14 am
Mark writes,
“that homosexuality is morally the same as heterosexuality is to teach a lie.”
“I do have a moral obligation to uphold truth, even if this hurts some feelings out there.”
So now there is some concrete code of morality and you happen to know what that code of morality is? Someone needs to get off his high horse.
What makes you so sure you have the truth? That your moral code is better than everyone elses? What makes you think there is such a thing as a static set of moral truths? Really, Mark, to claim you have cornered the market on moral truths is the height of arrogance.
Also you claim not to judge but what you are saying is the epitome of judging others. You are not only damning their moral code and placing your own moral code on a pedestal, you are doing something far more vile. You are saying the love they feel towards their significant other is not only wrong, but sick. If that is not judgment, what is?
Also, get your story straight. The books aren’t teaching children about sex. They are teaching them that people of the same sex can have romantic feelings for one another. A five-year-old understands that his parents feel romantic love. Why is it not reasonable to show children that two men or two women can harbor the same feelings? Oh right, because homosexuality is a social disease. Perhaps you would like to teach children this view. How moral of you.
I would also point out that there is an underlying problem to your anti-homosexual views. You believe homosexuality to be an immoral social pathology and for this you deny homosexuals the right to marry. Yet, their desire to marry suggests they are not sick or immoral but have the same sense of responsiblity and loyalty you respect so much in heterosexual couples. You implicitly criticize the values you claim to uphold for no other reason than they exist between two people of the opposite sex.
Having spent a lot of time around many homosexuals I can say first-hand they are not the crazed sexual deviants you believe them to be. I wish I could impart this to you, Jeremiah and js. I wish I could drag you out of your houses and into the light of day and show you how wrong your traditions and codes have been and to watch your faces as the years of indocrination wither in the face of reality. I wish I could make you see the problem with adhering to an untested black and white moral code. I know this will never happen. The dye is cast for the three of you. I know you will pass on your views to your children just as they were passed to you. My only consolation is that society at large is moving away from your absolute moral code and that you will be marginalized even further than you already have been.
30. uffy | April 9th, 2008 at 2:26 am
I’m still laughing at the “8 inch rule” in the Absolut ad. Can’t wait until they teach that in preschool. Remember when it was just so much easier with the Dick and Jane reader?
31. Mark Noonan | April 9th, 2008 at 3:16 am
what,
Once we’ve completely done away with the moral code, I will help myself to your belongings - after all, what complaint could you make? In my view, it is ok, and as there is no absolute moral standard…
It isn’t my moral code, what, it is God’s - any time you even remotely refer to something being right or wrong, you are referring to a universal standard - and such a standard cannot be human created. The only reason it is wrong for me to take what is yours is because God decreed it so - without His sanction of the rule, it is no rule at all…just a temporary convenience, to be set aside at the first opportune moment. As another example - it is wrong for us to let one of our fellows go hungry - but it is only so because God commands us to succor those in need. Without God’s command, the act of helping the less fortunate is entirely reduced to a matter of practicality - does helping a poor person help or hinder me?
You speak arrogantly of me - as if you knew who my friends are, and whom I associate with. This shows that you are also grossly unfair and entirely inattentive - as I’ve stated many times over the years, one of my very closest friends is gay, and in a long term gay relationship. I don’t judge my friend - that is no office of mine; but I will state - as often as I am asked - that homosexual sex is inherently disordered…this is a self-evident truth; it requires no argumentation as anyone with any sense at all can see that a homosexual act is a negation of the obvious purpose of sexual activity. In addition to this self-evident disordered nature, such acts are also contrary to God’s express purposes for our sexual activity. To teach anything other than that it is disordered is to teach a lie.
I will not retreat from truth in order to make people feel better about their poor decisions - any gay person who tells me that he or she cannot be fulfilled as a human being unless able to engage in morally approved homosexual sex will be condemned by me as worse than a fool…as if a heterosexual person, too, cannot be fully human unless he’s having sex! Sex is an act we do, it is not the definition of who we are - if I were rendered incapable of having sex tomorrow, I would be no less a man, no less a husband and no less valuable to my Creator.
Gay people are free to marry - but marriage is something we do between men and women. Period. End of story. If sex is the goal, then marriage isn’t - you can have sex within marriage, but you can’t make a marriage just to have sex…it is unsustainable unless it is an entire giving and an entire openness - including an openness to the gift of life, which all homosexual acts, by their nature, are closed off to. A gay man or woman has a choice to make - indulge in a completely un-necessary sexual proclivity, or engage in a life long, loving commitment to another human being, with the possibility of the joy of children, and the resultant responsbility for bringing up the next generation…playing house with your sex partner is a contemptible thing to try and graft on to the sacred institution of marriage.
32. Robert | April 9th, 2008 at 4:55 am
“I will not retreat from truth in order to make people feel better about their poor decisions - any gay person who tells me that he or she cannot be fulfilled as a human being unless able to engage in morally approved homosexual sex will be condemned by me as worse than a fool…” - Mark Noonan
Mark, being gay and having gay relationships is NOT just about having sex. Ask your friend. I’m sure they will be quite insulted if you tell them the only reason they are with their long term partner is because of sex.
There are many gays, just as there are many straight people, who use sex only as a tool and a means to an end. But gay people in long term relationships are with each other for LOVE, Mark, for LOVE!!! It is NOT about sex!!!!
The same goes for gays wanting to be married. They want to marry for LOVE!!!!!
You talk of others speaking arrogantly of you, but you are the arrogant one, Mark.
You “refuse to retreat from truth,” and will call gays, even your best friend, a fool. How is THAT not arrogant, Mark. Tell me, how is it not arrogant to assume that your truth is the only truth. You say that your truth is God’s truth, but how do you really know that? Do you presume to know the mind of God, Mark. That is the height of arrogance right there, pretending that you know what God wants. You may say that the Bible tells me so, but the Bible was written by MEN. Did God himself ever speak to you directly and tell you that you are right and all Liberals are wrong?
You say you do not judge your friend, but you DO, Mark, you DO!!! You call gays fools for not accepting your version of truth. That is the utmost insult to your friend, who is probably in a long term relationship with their partner for the same reason that you proclaim that you are - for LOVE!!!!
And as far as the possiblilty of children goes, gays can adopt the children that STRAIGHT PEOPLE DO NOT WANT!!!! These kids will have happy homes with their loving gay parents instead of being on the street like their STRAIGHT parents left them.
STRAIGHT people have destroyed the sancitity of marriage, Mark, ever since the dawn of time. They have destroyed it with arranged marriages, with infidelity, with divorce, with rape, with sexual and physical abuse, and any number of other things. Religion has ALSO destroyed marriage, since many religions do not allow people who love each other to marry because they are of different faiths. Christianity also does this, Mark. If it does not, how do you explain the anger and taboos of Catholics marrying Protestants that have been seen in times past. People were NOT allowed to marry who they loved. Read “Romeo and Juliet” Mark.
The point here is that marriage should be about LOVE. How dare you, Mark, how dare you say that a gay person in a relationship with their partner is ONLY concerned about sex? What if they LOVE their partner, Mark? What then? Are they still wrong? Get your head out of your self- righteous clouds and try to understand someone else for a change. You claim to want people to be treated as people. Maybe YOU should start by treating others, regardless of their choices, as fellow human beings. Treat them as YOU would like to be treated, with all the rights and responsibilities that you yourself share. Stop proclaiming that you know it all and your truth is the only one that matters and that others are “fools” for not believing what you want them to believe. Try to understand someone else for a change.
AND STOP HATING LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!
33. Plantation Owner | April 9th, 2008 at 6:22 am
“These stories seem to be a fine way to introduce the concept as a natural occurence in our human system of living.”
If everyone in your “human system” was gay, how would the species perpetuate itself?
I have known IDENTICAL TWINS. One of whom was gay while the other was not. Genetic? Well, in this case, that would seem highly unlikely.
Natural?
No.
Mental?
YES!
34. js | April 9th, 2008 at 6:27 am
Why do you liberals insist on telling tall tales? You dont understand the natural purpose of attraction and reproduction, do you? Nor the identification of issues when that natural purpose is perverted, and instead of a guy liking a girl, a guy likes a guy….and wants to breed with him. There is nothing natural about it. Ive heard the best of them, and still, not one of you have presented anything that conclusively proves there is any natural purpose in homosexuality.
You have taken the very foundation that our constitution so eloquently establishes our right to freedom, and trashed it by upholding some illusion that makes deviant sexual behavior a civil right.
Now, you try to tell us another lie about it. You think you can convince us that the books they use to teach children about homosexual behavior doesnt teach about sexual conduct, nooooo, you want us to think its all about happy smiley no feely touchy childrens education. But its a lie. The agenda that is behind it all is to teach young people about sex. There is no other issue there, not about choice, not about science, not the truth. If they did that, all of society would benefit, because then the WHOLE truth would have to be disclosed to the children who are the victims.
Instead, they set them up for future acceptance of homosexual behavior. Children deserve more than that. 99% of the homosexuals in the world are wrapped up in a drug infested, disease pool, where illicit behavior decreases thier live span by decades. Over 70% of them carry incurrable STD’s, and we want to teach our kids that this lifestyle is a civil right and a natural behavior? GET REAL. Its a lie. We are teaching our own people a lie, the damage is being done right now, in elementary and secondary schools.
Next time you try to justify the lie, do it based on facts, not emotional happy happy sunny day deceptions that do not address the truth about sodomy and its related behavioral patterns.
Stop the lies.
35. Plantation Owner | April 9th, 2008 at 6:30 am
“So you would be quiet, then, if we applied the above logic to religious beliefs? As long as you shut the hell up about them and don’t try to impose them on others, no problem, right?”
Uh, would you tell these Moslems the same? It seems that the system caved to the religious interests.
36. keefer | April 9th, 2008 at 7:37 am
My fellow “righties,” you do realize that most of these libs are defending the gay lifestyle only because of the right’s stance on it. Most of these so-called tolerant people are just as “homophobic” as we are alleged to be, but they’ll never admit it on here. Of the so-called liberal/progressive/Marxists I’ve been exposed to, most of them are bigots when it comes to such issues.
In other words, they’re a bunch of phonies, just looking to stir things up. for example, one of them tries to compare the gay lifestyle to the Christian way of life. That’s akin to them equating McCain’s association with some obscure minister to Obama’s 20-year devotion to an America-hating, anti-Semitic racist.
37. Retired Spook | April 9th, 2008 at 8:12 am
In other words, they’re a bunch of phonies, just looking to stir things up. for example, one of them tries to compare the gay lifestyle to the Christian way of life. That’s akin to them equating McCain’s association with some obscure minister to Obama’s 20-year devotion to an America-hating, anti-Semitic racist.
It’s called moral relativism, keefer. The Left has refined it to an art form. In fact, it’s one of the main weapons in their ideological arsenal.
38. js | April 9th, 2008 at 9:26 am
In reality, its a disease of the mind just as bad as alchoholism or drug addiction is, even gamblers get it. Lust is an addictive mood, to make your body feel good, just like drinking beer or whisky, or shooting heroin, snorting meth, smoking crack.
If Addicts and Alchoholics dont admit that what they do is a problem, they will defend thier behavior to the death, literaly. Addiction to sex is no different. The minds a funny thing, it plays tricks on you, creating uncontrollable compulsions, so that you “need” to do a specific thing to satisfy that compulsion. The synapsis in the mind are used to this behavior, to cause it pleasure, and the more those synapse fire, the stronger the impulse becomes, the more powerful the compulsion.
Homosexuals pervert the natural lust a man/woman has for the opposite sex for a reason. Thier inability to relate to the opposite sex in normally a core element, and there are a million different stories that are all different that may have caused it, the classic Freudian cause and effect.
The people that get caught up into this behavioral pattern are the hard core sodomites, they think what they do is natural, but it isnt, it only perverts the natural function of human reproductive drive into a deviant sexual behavior, which is homosexuality.
Its basic, thier lust controls thier minds instead of thier minds controling thier lusts.
39. DM | April 9th, 2008 at 10:06 am
”… just the neocons who arrogantly impose THEIR lifestyle down everyone’s throat… -Robert
Do you see the irony in this? You portray the right in such a way as to imply that they push their views and make it seem wrong. What would you call what the left does? Why do we have homosexual indoctrination in elementary school?
Plantation Owner is correct. If you want to stop bullying there are ways to go about that but you don’t have to also structure it in such a way as to “impose” homosexual lifestyles on the young.
”For cryin’ out loud, its not like they are teaching them HOW TO BE gay.” - Joe
But you are taking my rights as a parent away. You’re trying to teach that the homosexual behavior is normal and alright to act on. AND you’re trying to IMPOSE those ideas at an age where the child is most impressionable. If my religion deems this lifestyle as immoral then you’ve created a conflict in the child’s life. My religion says this lifestyle is immoral and yours says it’s ok.
How is this any different from “establishing a religion” that we’ve decided that the government shouldn’t do? You might suggest that the homosexual agenda / lifestyle isn’t a religion but I say it absolutely is and the left is trying to force it on my children.
40. Tractatus | April 9th, 2008 at 11:08 am
This thread is funny because the wingnuts are being forced to either side with gays or Muslims here–two groups they really don’t like. Freedom1 bucked the trend by siding with gay people (”WAKE UP, PEOPLE. Physical attacks on gays by Muslims have been escalating elsewhere in Europe for years.”) because as we all know, Freedom1 is so very concerned with gay rights and the plight of gay people. Meanwhile, FmrMarine, keefer (and to a lesser extent, Noonan), hop aboard their “why do these gays force me to gay-bash them for being so gay?” hobby horse. Good times.
41. Diane Tomlinson | April 9th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Noonan,
How come all these stories always seem to come from Canada or Britain or somewhere other than the country you live in? I wonder how many readers clicked the link to the Daily Mail and found that this happened in bristol England and not bristol CT.
Doesn’t that make it a bit less of an issue for Americans if looked at in this context? Sort of like how poverty say of kids in Cairo, Egypt doesn’t make the nightly headlines in Cairo, Illinois.
42. majoriot | April 9th, 2008 at 11:21 am
kimberly4victory
If you are going to teach about human sexuality, shouldn’t you teach about…human sexuality?
43. majoriot | April 9th, 2008 at 11:25 am
js
Where does your “mental illness” begin and end?
Is the practice of fellatio due mental illness?
Some people find that just as unseemly as sodomy.
Let me know.
44. majoriot | April 9th, 2008 at 11:30 am
js
Wow, is sex just about breeding to you?
If you , and others, find something wrong with certain sexual acts, well, so be it.
However, that has nothing to do with accepting the love between 2 human beings.
45. Joe | April 9th, 2008 at 11:36 am
major,
for some reason, gay-haters on this site just believe that if you are gay, you are into sodomy, sleeping with 100 people a year and doing drugs and alcohol.
Just look at post #24 by js for proof.
46. kimberly4victory | April 9th, 2008 at 11:38 am
DT: Sort of like Canuckguy, CO and other “foreigners” posting on this blog to discuss American politics?
majoriot: I will choose, as the parent, what/when/how to teach my child about human sexuality. Period.
47. OperationChaos | April 9th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Actually, I’d prefer 50 gay friends to any of the kooks who post here.
Yeah, it may be Bristol, UK, but given the proper circumstances, i.e., a liberal society, as those in Europe are, the caliphate will soon reach our shores, and we’ll be subject to the same bigotry and PC crap that Europe has embraced out of fear.
The public schools are no place to advance an agenda. That’s all this is, a leftist agenda…
48. FoolYouTwice | April 9th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
So, I must assume then that you are opposed to schools reading books to children that involve heterosexual couples as well. Is that correct?
Mark Noonan,
Since you apparently know all things about what is moral and immoral, could you please lay out every immoral act for me? I just want to make sure I don’t do anything to offend god and you are the first person I have met that knows exactly what god has deemed moral and immoral.
I know I could just probably read the bible, but so many of the rules laid out in the bible just aren’t followed by modern christians and so I am a bit confused as to which things in the bible to ignore and which to follow.
Obviously you know which things to ignore and which to follow so it would be helpful to me, and frankly all of mankind, if you could lay these out for us in detail.
Actually, I have met others in the past that claimed to know exactly what god approves and disapproves of, but I cannot reach them any longer and so you are my last hope. I am sure that whatever you lay out would be exactly the same as what they lay out as well. I mean, if two people both know what god finds moral and immoral, there couldn’t possibly be any difference.
But what if there was some difference? What would I do then? How would I know which absolute moral code to follow? So, just in case, could you also lay out as to why you know beyond a doubt that your absolute moral code is the correct one. I would hate to start following everything you lay out just to find out that you are a sham and that you have never verified the absolute moral code you believe in by communicating with the person who set it up and instead just relied on the writings of mere humans. Wow, what a dope I would look like then.
49. Joe | April 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
k4v:
I will choose, as the parent, what/when/how to teach my child about human sexuality. Period.
First of all, ok…. 5 yr olds are a too young for any human sexuality talk. I will give you that.
Having said that, assuming this was for older kids…
It isn’t like they are teaching kids how to be gay for cryin’ out loud. They aren’t giving them lessons.
Do you object when the family in a book is of mixed race?
50. Diane Tomlinson | April 9th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
K4V that’s two totally different things. That’s like saying you should have not invaded Iraq because it’s not a part of the US!
And you will teach your kid the bare minimum to keep you from being embarassed or having your lifestyle corrupted by a teen pregnancy. Society only cares about what hassles it from soft and comfy and discussing sex with kids is difficult in so many ways but it is better to give a girl a copy of “Our Bodies Our Selves” than to sit her in a class and tell her not to have sex because your religion says not to. That is just dumb and it is exactly as dumb as the dumb Muslim version of the same mantra you two religions are the same in this. And here’s a news flash American society for this reason, religious fanaticism is declining at a dizzying rate while Europe is undergoing an Enlightenment in technology and Reason that is so bright it is nearly blinding from Ireland to Poland Christian lands all and most of them catholic yet they guard their Faith and get the job done at the same time because it is not their goal like it is of many Muslims to shove their religion down the throats of those that do not adhere to it and want religious law to be the law of the land.
My point is if these sorts of things were happening in the US daily I could understand the sort of fear that is in Noonan’s tenor in the post but they aren’t. The issues of culture are far stronger in the UK because of their colonial past and their immigration policy currently.
I think community standards should dictate what goes and what doesn’t in any society and some people are going to have to get used the being either offended or disappointed as it applies. There will be some surprises as there always is when one group demands rights. I think if the Civil Rights Act has come up as a referendum nationally it would have passed through the power of the black vote alone and the liberal vote in the northeast minus Boston. Some of the most vitriolic segregationists in America were Catholics in Boston.
Some of the same people who decry liberalism and all the prosperity it has brought to America over the 20th century were however ready and willing to take the hand up the New Deal offered them. I’m not the kind of lesbian that thinks every child needs to know about homosexuality in the 1st grade I think that’s too soon maybe starting with basic sex ed at 5th grade and progressing from G rated anatomy to R rated frank discussion by 12th grade would create a far healthier society sexually that would eliminate some of the aggressive crimes of repression that teen males and females commit every year.
It’s only a pretzel Mark because to you there are political issues you can exploit and thing that you don’t care about. As long as no one is harming your family or bombing Catholic churches and you have a few bucks in the bank and a steady job you likely don’t really care what happens to America as long as you can find an exit before the fire becomes too hot. That’s not a dig at you really Noonan because that’s how most Americans feel today. If the average American were faced with fighting or running the vast majority would run and save themselves. Yet a few valiant ones would stay and defend their stuff and be slaughtered.
Sad.
But of course you’ll say off topic vulgar irreverant or just too lesbian for my taste. Whatever, that’s why I have a blog.
51. js | April 9th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
so many liberals…so many people with thier heads up thier behinds…..its amazing they can type so much without taking a good, clear breath of fresh air and seeing exactly how stupid they are being with the comments they post from that point of view…..they think kids are stupid….that youngsters dont figure out what a penis and vagina really do….and they try to justify telling youngsters that its ok, because they are forced to learn stuff in science that really isnt about science as much as it is a politically augmented lie…..so who tells a kid not to drink, and expects the kid will not wonder why eventually? or instruct a kid that two mommies or two daddies are the same as one mommy and one daddy, and not anticipate that at some future date they will not want to get into it and figure out if its right or wrong for themselves…..its a certainty, that left to their own devices, 98.5% of those children would never even try to practice deviant sexual behavior, the 1.5% that do are reclussive and find it much more difficult to relate to the opposite sex for whatever reason….but laying the idea out at an early age….its an offense against those kids….laying a temptation upon thier innocence and presenting it behind a lie….its not harmless, its not natural, and its a perversion of the human sexuality that exists to insure we reproduce, and that there are kids tomorrow that we also should be responsible to insure that only the truth is passed on, not the sodomite lies, not the sexual perversions, but the scientific facts, the indisputable truths that men are supposed to go with women, and women with men, for a purpose, not for the lust that homosexuals pursue
life is too precious to waste living for lust, and that all homosexuality is about, selfish lust.
52. Retired Spook | April 9th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
So, I must assume then that you are opposed to schools reading books to children that involve heterosexual couples as well. Is that correct?
Why, FYT? Is there something abnormal about heterosexual couples?
Do you object when the family in a book is of mixed race?
Why, Joe? Is there something abnormal about mixed race couples (assuming they aren’t both the same sex)?
53. FoolYouTwice | April 9th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Before I can answer that I would need to know what you mean by abnormal. I am assuming, although correct me if I am wrong, that this word has a negative connotation to you. I am assuming you are not using the word abnormal in the following sense: It is abnormal to have a IQ of 170.
So, define what you mean by abnormal and then we can discuss. Once defined, answer this question. Is there something abnormal about homosexual couples?
54. FoolYouTwice | April 9th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Spook,
While you are at it, answer these questions?
Is there anything abnormal about heterosexual couples that cannot reproduce?
Is there anything abnormal about Rastafarian couples?
Is there anything abnormal about couples that live in Indiana?
55. Mark Noonan | April 9th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Fool,
Your least wish is my command:
http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/index.htm
Enjoy!
56. Mark Noonan | April 9th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Robert,
No, I’m afraid it is about sex - my friend is loved by me; is loved by his children; heck, is even loved by his ex-wife…for whatever reason, he has decided that this is something he wants to do and bears no moral opprobrium for so doing. He’s not the first person to get it wrong, nor to find justification for getting it wrong. People are adept at rationalising their actions. I do it, too. As with all of my fellows, my prayer is that all of us will, by grace of Our Lord, Jesus Christ, be redeemed from our sins and all of us enjoy the life of the world to come.
As for what my friends and I might call each other - well, in so many words, this friend of mine has called me a fool for supporting President Bush. Friends are tolerant of each other - well, strictly speaking, we’re all supposed to be tolerant of each other, friends or no. You should keep in mind that G K Chesterton and G B Shaw loved each other dearly, even though it is doubtful there was one in a hundred things they agreed upon - friends don’t have to be carbon copies of each other and, in fact, if they were, it’d be a pretty dull world.
What you need to do is shake off your chains - liberate your intellect and open your mind to the possibility that you may have it wrong.
57. FoolYouTwice | April 9th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Mark,
Nowhere on that site do I see a complete list of all moral and immoral acts as I asked for. You obviously know all acts that are considered moral and all that are considered immoral, so I am confused as to why you don’t want to share this information with those of us not fortunate enough to have had conversations with the creator of the absolute moral code. I also know that you have disagreed with the beliefs of the Catholic Church in the past and therefore I cannot accept what they say as one in the same as what you say. I am interested in what you say, because you are the one who claims superiority on the issue of morality.
But, assuming you do believe the Catholic Church has everything perfectly correct on what is moral and immoral, then would it be safe for me to assume that the Church has never changed its opinion on what is moral and what is not? If it is absolute I can’t imagine how they would.
58. Tractatus | April 9th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
What you need to do is shake off your chains - liberate your intellect and open your mind to the possibility that you may have it wrong.
You first. Actually, you don’t even need to succeed at it–just show that you’ve made an honest effort at it instead of hiding. All you’ve demonstrated here is that you’ll dutifully recite whatever your church tells you to recite, no questions asked. Oh, and that you’ve managed to placate any pangs of cognitive dissonance with a thin layer of “hate the sin, love the sinner” pabulum.
he has decided that this is something he wants to do and bears no moral opprobrium for so doing
Well, he doesn’t bear any “moral opprobrium” for being gay. You just think he should (again, because that’s what your church tells you to think) and are upset that he doesn’t, or at least not to your satisfaction.
But you still haven’t answered the question: Which group that you can’t stand are you siding with here, the gays or the Muslims? C’mon, you’re gonna have to buddy up with one of them. So which is it? It looks like you’re teaming up with your mortal enemies, the infidel Muslims and their terrible, terrible religion. Caving to the Islamofascists–say it ain’t so, Noonan!
59. Robert | April 9th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Mark, it is NOT about “getting it wrong.” I am quite aware that I have made many mistakes in my life and I freely admit it. I also freely admit that there are many things I do not know, that we ALL do not know about life.
You, however, refuse to admit that your view may also be flawed. ANY of us can be flawed, Mark. Your God even says so. We are ALL sinners. That includes YOU, Mark.
You are ARROGANT and SELF-RIGHTEOUS, Mark. Every post you put on this site reeks of arrogance and hatred. Your words DRIP hatred for those who have a Liberal mindset. You claim to be above anyone who does not share your viewpoint. Read your own words and tell me it is not so. Yet you have the conceit and audacity to say that ONLY the left hates.
I can see that there is noone that may reach you, noone that may get through to you.
My mind IS open, Mark, to possibilities about the Universe that you would never refuse to even entertain. Maybe if you were into science fiction you might understand, but someone with your mindset would never have the imagination to enjoy sci-fi. Our Universe and our world have more wonders than you could ever imagine.
God is much bigger than you think, Mark. You are selling God short by putting Him in a box that YOU feel is His will. You insult your own God by pretending and presuming to know what He wants. It is what you and others like you want, Mark. You feel that being gay is disgusting, so you feel it is unnatural.
How DARE you say that your friend is with his partner becausde of ONLY sex. Do you know this for a fact. If I were your friend, I could not tolerate that attitude from you. It would be the same as if someone slapped you in the face and said that you did not love your wife. Would you stand for that, Mark? Would you?
Besides, I get the feeling from what you have said that in your youth you were a womanizer. I have always found men like that to be A@#holes. I would befriend a gay man (as long as he did not have an attitude of wanting attention, being flabouyant to attract attention to himself) any day over a womanizer.
Now you are holier than thou because you think you have found “the truth.”
How DARE you insult your friend by claiming that his love might be only about sex. That is NOT friendship, Mark. You do not have to agree with his lifestyle, but to insinuate that he is only looking for sex is an outrageous insult if, in fact, he loves his partner.
Thinks about how it would feel if someone told you you did not love your wife.
Think on these things, Mark, and I pray that you find a way to shed your hatred and have love for your fellow man, as you CLAIM to have now.
Until then, STOP HATING LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!
60. Jeremiah | April 9th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
FYT,
Just read the Bible. There’s where you’ll find the truth, it is the only truth there is.
And the best part about the Bible, it doesn’t need somebody elses word to back it up, it does that itself from Genesis to Revelation.
As far as Sodomy is regarded in the Bible, Romans would be the definitive chapter on it.
Our Founders took example from that chapter, in that they had Sodomy Laws - If someone was caught in Sodomy, they paid a fine plus jail time and however many offenses they were caught in afterward most of the time they got death by hanging.
Today, the Supreme Court has listened to the ACLU and went along with their wishes, and thus, the Law has been perverted to protect Sodomites and fine+jail Christians for speaking against them.
A troubled time is coming, friends!
61. Retired Spook | April 9th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
So, define what you mean by abnormal and then we can discuss.
I was thinking in terms of the dictionary definition:
abnormal adj. deviating markedly from the normal, usual or average not conforming to a type or standard; irregular.
Once defined, answer this question. Is there something abnormal about homosexual couples?
Lesbian couples cannot engage in normal sexual intercourse in the biological sense, cannot conceive in the biological sense and must have outside help in order to reproduce. In that respect, they would, by definition, be abnormal. Homosexual males couples cannot engage in normal sexual intercourse in the biological sense and cannot reproduce even with outside help. In that respect, by definition, they would be abnormal. I guess I should have used terms like perverted or deviate to distinguish homosexuality from other innocent forms of abnormalities.
Is there anything abnormal about heterosexual couples that cannot reproduce?
Since the vast majority of heterosexual couples are biologically able to reproduce (normal), the small percentage that can’t would, by definition, be abnormal, but not perverted or sexually deviate.
Is there anything abnormal about Rastafarian couples?
ROTFLMAO!! Naw, that sounds pretty mainstream, heh, heh.
Is there anything abnormal about couples that live in Indiana?
Now you’re just being stupid (well, not JUST now), but since my wife and I live in Indiana, you tell me whether or not we sound normal. We both I graduated from high school and college. I served in the U.S. Navy, ran a family business, sold out and started a new business from scratch when I was in my late 40’s. My wife was a stay-at-home mom until our daughters (both conceived the old-fashioned way) were in high school. We have 3 grandchildren, and we’ve been married to each other (and only each other) for almost 42 years. I guess, in this day an age, that last part would probably be considered abnormal, but it has nothing to do with living in Indiana.
62. Tractatus | April 9th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
And the best part about the Bible, it doesn’t need somebody elses word to back it up, it does that itself from Genesis to Revelation.
Yes, we know the Bible is true because the Bible says it’s true! (Which, if you’re keeping score at home, is also how we know the Quran is every bit as true as the Bible, as is the Mahabharata, the teachings of Siddhartha, etc. — they all say that they’re true, too!)
Circular logic: It’s good enough for ol’ Jerry; why can’t you just shut up and accept it, too?
63. Jeremiah | April 9th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
No, I’m afraid not, Tract, you see, I know the Father…
He arose, my friend, He arose…
64. Jeremiah | April 9th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
He is the Author and Finisher…
65. Tractatus | April 9th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
What does your dad waking up and getting out of bed have to do with anything, Jerry?
66. Jeremiah | April 9th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Tract,
My Father never sleeps, He needs no sleep, He never gets weak, Never has to eat, He needs no watch to tell time, for He is everywhere….
He speaks and the winds and waves obey Him!
And I know He watches over me!
:)
67. ViralNexus | April 9th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
The amount of absurd idiocy that is being spewed from our resident sexually oppressed neoCons is quite mind boggling. First there is JS and the percentages he obviously digs in his rear end to retrieve and then there is Mark’s rhetoric filled “knowledge” of all things homosexual. Mark you know absolutely nothing about human sexuality nor the motivations and behaviors of people in general. If you think people are as simple and one dimensional as you paint them then I must seriously question your intellect.
First there is this insistence that all homosexuals are sodomites. For one thing, most gay men do NOT participate in anal sodomy and those that do, do it rarely. Just because you are a gay doesn’t mean it makes it any easier to bare that kind of pain. In fact I have a read statistics that say more heterosexual couples participate in anal sex than homosexual couples. And my friends, if you consider oral sex a form of sodomy then the majority of sexually active people (yes even Christians) in the US are going straight to Hell.
Secondly I hate to break it to you (despite JS’s assertion) but all studies suggesting that homosexuality is a mental illness were discredited back in the 80s. There is more and more evidence that states that sexuality is genetic. Though I know there will never be enough evidence to convince a “true” Christian that people are born hetero/homosexual because that would eliminate one of their biggest platforms. This is evident by the fact that they refuse to except evolution instead of looking at it as a tool that God used to create life. Even an educated idiot knows that the Earth is older than 6,000 years old but once again “true” Christians can’t except that because their soapbox would be further lowered.
Since Christians generally use the “what if” principle to guide their lives how about this what if. What if you stand before God on Judgment Day and he sees that you spent a considerable amount of time hating/damning/condemning his children whom he created differently? What will you have to say for yourself? I thought that is what you wanted God? But I thought you hated sodomites God? What reason could you possibly give as to why you thought you could place yourself upon a pedestal above your fellow man?
68. Tractatus | April 9th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Your dad is Allah, Jerry? Wow, that must’ve been an interesting childhood.
69. js | April 9th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
some folks just dont have what it takes to find God, like tracktus here, he thinks that because he cant find God, that God probably doesnt exist
thats what circular thinking is
about as advanced as someone that says that because they cant see oxygen, it doesnt exist either…..really got the groove, dont they?
70. ViralNexus | April 9th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Once upon a time people believed that the Earth was a) flat and b) that it was the center of the universe- both of these ideas were held as truth’s by the Catholic Church. While not many, there were people who knew that those truths were absolute rubbish- unfortunately some who held these heretical thoughts were killed by the Church. Alas it was proven that Church was wrong and that indeed the Earth was not flat and that it was not the center of the universe. So I have to ask, if the Church did not have these simple truths correct, what other “truths” may they be mistaken about?
As far as JS and his unfounded and completely debased logic- how advanced is it to believe in something supernatural? You can prove oxygen exists with a simple experiment- just hold your breath and for you JS I insist that you hold it for as humanly possible… or more.
71. FmrMarine | April 9th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
rbt;
>>>relationships are with each other for LOVE, Mark, for LOVE!!! It is NOT about sex!!!!<<<
Tell that to the emergency room Dr’s who are removing
baseball bats, gerbals, flashlights, et all.from mens anasus
Tell that to the parades where they are mostly naked and giving oral sex on each other on city streets.
Tell that to most notorious mass murderers who are homosexuals.
tell that to 95% of all child molesters are male homosexuals.
tell that to the aids victims of bath house homosexual orgies.
tell that to those who have hundreds of anal sexual liaisons in our parks and rest stops each year.
tell that to 30- 40 yo unmarried, childless homosexuas who want to be Boy Scout LEADERS!
sure it is not about sex !!!
it’s L O V E
72. ViralNexus | April 9th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Marine- If you believe an ounce of that garbage you just spewed then I have to say my friend that you are a blatant idiot and must immediately step away from the computer. It isn’t even worth debating those points because they are so removed from truth and reality they border on hate and discrimination- I take that back, they are hate and discrimination and void of facts.
73. FmrMarine | April 9th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
JS:
This about sums it up.
The rest is as they say …..history.
In the Epistle to the Romans 1:26-27 (TNIV), Paul writes
“ Because of this [idolatry], God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
74. FmrMarine | April 9th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
va
>>they are hate and discrimination and void of facts.<<
Unfortunately they are true.
Truth is NOT “hate”… that word is out of your play book to stifle debate, it does not intimidate or stifle me.
Whats next ? sex with your dog? horse? cat?
and 20 years from now presented as normal?
after all who could not “LOVE” his dog?
Must be a “HATEFUL” Christian trying to break up ole lassie & me.
Sorry argue with GOD his word says it and I believe it.
75. js | April 9th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
70. ViralNexus
lots of words viral, but the only thing I see is an ignorance that only you can cure, but I doubt that you want it, its called the truth, and until you get beyond your selfish prejudice, you cant take that step
you are another one, like tractus, who doesnt believe air exists because they cant see it, did you ever stop to think that the hundreds of millions of people alive today, and hundreds of millions of more throughout history, that have been saying the same thing now since the beginning of recorded history, might actually know something that you dont?
obviously, your head is in the same place as tractus though, you two are part of a whopping 3.8% of the worlds population….its honestly not counting the 13.7% who are actually not religious, but they are not professing atheists, devoutly swearing that God doesnt exist, and that we dont have spirits….
so, when your big mouth hits blogs like this with a lions growl, we all know its attached to the body of a tree frog in the desert….and pretty useless to debate the truth with because you are, essentially, bigoted against religion
76. js | April 9th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
73. FmrMarine
the bible really does condemn thier deviant sexual behavior, but its for a reason
thats where we find the sickening truth about sodomites, they practice a deadly game and gamble with thier lives and their souls
an old man told me long ago, when they learn how sick it is, it ruins the behavior for them, every time they have that uncontrollable compulsion, they remember the truth about it, and it becomes repulsive enough that they want to change
some actually seek help, others dont need it, and still others, like viralnexus and tractus, will defend it to the death….
the analysis is that homosexuals can fool some of the people some of the time, but the only ones that are fooled all of the time are probably infected with some deadly disease and they fight for thier right to have it, and share it….
77. Tractatus | April 9th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
OK, that’s it. js is definitely a spoof. I was suspicious for a while, but now I’m convinced.
If only Jerry were as well, but no, I think he’s completely sincere in his…well, let’s just politely say “enthusiasm.”
78. ViralNexus | April 9th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
JS- you are right I am bigoted against religion though not against God. I choose not to be a part of organized religion because you, Mark, Marine et al are a product of those cults. You hate what you don’t understand and you presume to put yourself above others. You have to wrap people into neat little packages that you can explain away because any further thought than that would confuse and scare you. And as I said before please, do us all a favor and hold your breath for as long as humanly possible… or longer. By the way, air is not oxygen but I wouldn’t expect a zealot to really understand anything not explained in his little book.
Marine- if you believe everything you say than you must have sources and facts- I challenge you to prove any one of your assertions and please do not reference hate and anti-homosexual groups as your source though I know this is where you get your facts.
79. Jeremiah | April 9th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
JS- you are right I am bigoted against religion though not against God.
Sure you’re not going to be bigoted against God, because you know that any second He could take your life away at the bat of an eye, and you would meet Him face to face standing in judgment.
You’re bigoted against Christians, and want to denounce the truth found in His Word, because you want to hide from the truth so you can make excuses for the perversion that you seek.
Satan is a liar from the beginning, says the Teacher…
80. FmrMarine | April 9th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
JER;
SAN FRANCISCO, September 25, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The Folsom Street Fair, a gay parade which has for years included full nudity and sex acts on public streets, is set to take place again this year on September 30 with city approval, partial public funding and sponsorship by Miller Brewing Company. This year several Christian and pro-family groups have called for public scrutiny into the event as the ad for the event is a mockery of Christ’s Last Supper.
The ad portrays Christ and His disciples as half-naked homosexual sadomasochists with the bread and wine representing Christ’s broken body and blood replaced with sadomasochistic sex toys.
“The most unimaginable and vile acts of debauchery are commonplace during the fair,” said Matt Barber, Policy Director for Cultural Issues with Concerned Women for America (CWA). “Senator Larry Craig was arrested and driven out of the Senate for allegedly soliciting public ‘gay’ sex, yet during this event the city of San Francisco suspends the law and allows ‘gay’ men and women to parade the streets fully nude, many having sex - even group orgies - in broad daylight, while taxpayer funded police officers look on and do absolutely nothing.”
Catholic League president Bill Donohue focused his attention on getting Miller to act on the anti-Christian ad. “There are several sponsors to this street fair, but most are local and represent niche markets; Miller is the only national household sponsor,” said Donohue. “Furthermore, Miller has a record of acceding to requests from various segments of the population that have objected to certain ads: it has bowed to the wishes of Muslims, African-American clergy, lawyers and feminists by pulling ads deemed offensive. Surely it will do the same in this instance: the ad, like the event, is morally depraved. Indeed, it is the kind of ad that only the enemies of Christians would entertain.”
WND
‘Gays’ mock Jesus with Last Supper take-off
Taxpayers subsidize event with nudity, orgies under watch of police
Posted: September 25, 2007
9:19 pm Eastern
© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com
Participants in 2005 Folsom Street Fair
A taxpayer-supported “gay” celebration in San Francisco, featuring a poster portraying Jesus Christ and his disciples as “half-naked homosexual sadomasochists,” has come under heavy fire from major Christian groups demanding that California lawmakers condemn it.
The poster by organizers of the Folsom Street Fair, sponsored in part by Miller Brewing, replaces the bread and wine representing Christ’s blood and body with sadomasochistic sex toys.
“A picture’s worth a thousand words,” said Matt Barber, policy director for cultural issues with Concerned Women for America.
Barber said his group wants California’s elected officials – including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sens. Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer – to “publicly condemn this unprovoked attack against Christ and His followers.”
The annual street event, which includes displays of nudity and sexual activity – is scheduled for Sept. 30.
http://opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110004846
http://www.annoy.com/editorials/doc.html?DocumentID=100222
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2005/jun/05060606.html
Homosexual Serial Killers
Statistical analysis of the proportion of homosexuality among serial killers,
with a listing of prominent GLBT/homosexual serial killers
Below is a list of serial killers who were homosexuals. This list is intended for reference purposes only and does not imply a causal relationship between homosexuality and serial killing.
Although incidents of serial killing are widely reported in the media because of the heinous and unusual nature of these crimes, there are actually very few serial killers relative to the general population. Research into this phenomenon is ongoing, and a small industry has sprung up around the practice of “profiling” serial killers in order to assist in their apprehension. But, law enforcement officials agree that each serial killer is unique. Society does not currently have sufficient knowledge to predict serial killing before it occurs and thus prevent it from happening.
Serial killers and their victims include people from all races, cultures, nationalities, economic background, educational levels, genders, and sexual orientations. Because serial killers are so rare, it is impossible to use any demographic indicator as a predictor. There are no “rules” and all apparent trends have been broken. But some general observations can be made.
Serial killers are nearly always men (93%). Furthermore, of the relatively few female serial killers, one third of them worked in partnership with males.
In the United States, serial killers are predominantly white. This makes sense statistically, because about 80% of the population is white. According to some sources, whites are over-represented and African-Americans are under-represented among serial killers, but this depends on how one defines a “serial killer.” The more celebrated, headline-grabbing serial killers are generally white, but if one counts all perpetrators of multiple homicides, including drug- and gang-related killings, then African-Americans account for between 20% to 30% of all multiple perpetrators, according to statistics compiled by the FBI. African-Americans comprise about 13% of the total U.S. population. Asians, who comprise probably under-represented among American serial-killers. Asian serial-killers are extremely rare in the United States, but Asians comprise only about 4% of the U.S. population so, statistically speaking, one would expect few Asian serial killers. There have been some high-profile Filipino serial killing and murder cases. Filipinos comprise a relatively newer and less affluent immigrant population relative to other major Asian groups in the United States.
Although the proportion of serial killers who are known to have had homosexual experience is high (over 43%), the total number of serial killers is too small to make statistically relevant statements about whether homosexuals are over- or under-represented among serial killers. [Click here for source, related studies and statistics.]
Also, it should be noted that many of the homosexual serial killers on this list were not active members of the Gay & Lesbian cultural community.
Many of the most famous serial killers (e.g., Jeffrey Dahmer, Andrew Cunanan, John Wayne Gacy, etc.) were homosexuals, but they became widely known due to the nature of their crimes or the identities of their victims, not because they in any way represent serial killers generally.
Given that less than 2% of adults are homosexuals (plus 1 to 2% who are bisexual), there would not need to be very many homosexuals among the total number of serial killers for them to be over-represented. But with such small overall numbers, and with no universally agreed upon definition of a homosexual, it would be impossible to determine the relative frequency of homosexuals among serial killers. Unlike gender and race (clearly ascertainable), there are no physical or genetic tests for sexual orientation. It can only be determined by behavior and self-identification.
Some serial killers engaged in sex with both males and females, which would prompt some people to classify them as bisexuals. Their actual identity would then be argued about by various biologists, gay writers, and others, who would classify their status as a variant of homosexuality, a distinct classification, or repressed homosexuals. Such hair-splitting is well beyond the scope of this paper. Suffice it say, all of the individuals listed here as “homosexual serial killers” can be classified as homosexual as the term is generally used.
Homosexual serial killers have most frequently chosen young boys or gay men as their victims, although some have victimized females as well. Most of the killers have raped their victims either before or after killing them, although in some cases they have killed after consensual homosexual sex. There have been heterosexual serial killers who have targeted gay victims (e.g., Colin Ireland), but this is very rare.
But more importantly, none of the serial killers listed here represent typical homosexuals, who, like the general population, are almost never involved in violent crime. The exact nature of each individual’s feelings, attitudes, and behavior with regards to sex is unique, in the general population as well as among serial killers. Legally, all or nearly all of the homosexual serial killers on this list would be considered sexual deviants because of the extreme and violent nature of their acts — not simply because of their homosexual orientation. It must be emphasized that violent sexual deviancy is exhibited by heterosexual serial killers as well.
No ethnic, religious or cultural group promotes this sort of violence. But in a free society, no culture is entirely free from violence, despite their best efforts. Kristi Degn eloquently wrote a letter to the editor in response to a writer who felt it was okay to single one culture out as perpetrators of violence:
In his letter “Man Is God Here” (Forum, Aug. 25, 2000), Dennis Kostecki wrote, “In my dating days here, I dated six women. All were from this culture. All were abused by their former husbands. Every one! It seems to me this culture promotes the degradation and abuse of their women for reasons only they know and understand.”
Pinpointing the blame for abuse on any one “culture” is irresponsible and weak. Abuse is no respecter of culture or demographics. It is no respecter of gender, marital or relationship status.
Our statewide domestic violence hot-line number is 1-800-897-LINK. Perhaps Mr. Kostecki would be interested in knowing that calls received at this number are not from one “culture” only. Further, Mr. Kostecki’s statement is narrow-minded in relation to a problem which is a national concern.
Gay/Homosexual Serial Killers
Name # of People
Killed Year Killer’s Home Location of Murders Notes Birth death
Jeffrey Dahmer 17 1978, 1988-91 Milwaukee Milwaukee and Chicago homosexual cannibal. He was killed by another inmate while in prison. 21 May 1960 28 November 1994
Andrew Cunanan 5 1997 San Diego, Calif. Minnesota; Chicago, IL; South Beach, FL killed fashion designer Gianni Versace 31 August 1969 23 July 1997
Gilles de Rais 300+ 1430s France France associate of Joan of Arc
Luis Alfredo Garavito 140+ Colombia Colombia Gay serial killer who murdered over 140 boys in Columbia. 25 January 1957
Randy Steven Kraft 65 (est.) 1971 to 1983 Oregon, Michigan, etc. “Score Card Killer”
Michael Swango 35 - 60 1983-97 Ohio, Illinois, New York, South Dakota, Virginia “Doctor of Death” — killed hospital patients
Andrei Chikatilo 52 until 1992 Russia Russia
Fritz Haarmann 40 (est.) until 1924 Germany Germany “Butcher Of Hanover”
John Wayne Gacy 33 until 1978 Chicago Chicago bisexual; 27 of his victims (young boys he seduced) were found buried in crawlspace under his house. Executed in Joliet, IL. 17 March 1942 10 May 1994
Patrick Wayne Kearney 28+ 1968 to 1977 Redondo Beach, Calif. gay cruising areas of Hollywood
David D. Hill 28? 1968 to 1977 Redondo Beach, Calif. Hollywood Patrick Kearney’s lover; confessed to being co-killer with Kearney, but police weren’t sure about the extent of his involvement
Hans Grans 27+ until 1924 Germany Germany accommplice and love of Haarmann, the “Butcher Of Hanover”
Wayne Williams 27 1979-81 Atlanta Atlanta Gay serial killer who preyed mostly on young black male hustlers. 27 May 1958
Dean Corll 27 1960s to 1973 Ft. Wayne, Indiana; later Houston, TX Houston, Texas
Elmer Wayne Henley 27 1960s to 1973 Ft. Wayne, Indiana; later Houston, TX Houston, Texas Bisexual. Victims were young boys who he kidnapped and tortured. 9 May 1956
David Owen Brooks 27 1960s to 1973 Ft. Wayne, Indiana; later Houston, TX Houston, Texas
Donald Harvey 25 - 40 (est.) 1970-71 London, Kentucky Kentucky
Juan Corona 25 1971 From Mexico; moved to Yuba City, CA in 1950s Yuba City, Calif. Born in Mexico. All of his victims were men that he first raped, and then killed with a machete over the span of six weeks. Presently resides in Corcoran State Prison. Juan Corona’s brother is Natividad, the gay, owner of the Guadalajara cafe in Marysville, CA. 1934
Adolfo de Jesus Constanzo 21 (est.) until 1989 Matamoros, Mexico Matamoros, Mexico “Matamoros Cult Killer”
Larry Eyler 19 1980s Chicago Illinois and Indiana
Huang Yong 17+ 2001-2003 Henan Province, China Henan Province, China Gay. Executed. Murdered boys that he flirted with and picked up at internet cafes. Saved their belts as souvenirs. His 18th victim escaped, leading to his arrest. 1974 26 December 2003
Dennis Nilsen 16 1978-83 U.K. U.K.
Marcelo Costa de Andrade 14 until 1991 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
William Bonin 12+ 1979-80 Orange County, Calif. Orange County, Calif.
Henry Lee Lucas 12+ 1970s and 80s Most in Texas, Southeastern U.S. 23 August 1936 12 March 2001
Ottis Toole 12+ 1970s and 80s West Coast, Florida, etc. accomplice of Henry Lee Lucas
Vaughn Greenwood 11+ 1974-75 Los Angeles Los Angeles
Richard Speck 8+ 1966 Chicago Chicago married, bisexual
Cayetano Hernandez 8 1963 Yerba Buena, Mexico Mexico
Eleazor Solis 8 1963 Monterey, Mexico Mexico
David Bullock 6+ 1981-82 New York City New York
Vernon Butts 6+ 1979-80 Calif. Orange County, Calif. accomplice of William Bonin
Paul Bateson 6 ? (est.) 1977-78 New York City New York City
Marc Dutroux 6 1995-1996 Belgium Belgium Bisexual. He is unusual among gay serial killers, in that his victims were all girls, who he kidnapped and tortured before killing. One of most notorious serial killers in Belgium’s history. 6 November 1956
Michael Terry 6 1980-86 Atlanta Georgia, Ohio, South Carolina
Orville Lynn Majors 6 Indiana Vermillion County Hospital, Indiana
Charles Cohen 5+ Delaware Delaware, San Francisco, New York, Miami, and New Orleans
Arthur Gary Bishop 5 1984 Utah Utah Utah serial killer of young boys. Years before his murder spree, in 1978, he had been excommunicated from the LDS Church. Bishop was an active homosexual and was no longer a member of the LDS Church when he became a serial killer. Executed in Utah State Prison. He said of his crimes, “With great sadness and remorse, I realize that I allowed myself to be misled by Satan. Pornography was not the only negative influence in my life, but its effect on me was devastating. I am a homosexual pedophile convicted of murder, and pornography was a determining factor in my downfall.” 1951 10 June 1988
Michael Lupo 4+ 1986 from Italy London
Peter Moore 4 1995 north Wales north Wales
Westley Allan Dodd 3+ Washingon Washington, Oregon
David P. Brown
(a.k.a. Nathaniel Bar-Jonah) 3+ 2000 Massachusetts Montana David Paul Brown. Victims were all young boys. 15 February 1957
Charles Manson 3+ 1968-72 Los Angeles Los Angeles Bisexual. One of nation’s most famous serial killers. Murdered actress Sharon Tate, the wife of film director Roman Polanski. Deeply interested in the occult. 12 November 1934
David Edward Maust 5+ 1981; 2003 Germany; Galveston, TX (1981); Hammond, IL (2003) Gay. Killed teenage boys, usually by stabbing 5 April 1954
Bruce Davis 2+ 1968-72 Los Angeles Los Angeles Charles Manson accomplice
Erik Menendez 2 20 August 1989 Beverly Hills, CA Beverly Hills, CA with his straight brother Lyle, Erik killed his parents (Jose Menendez and Kitty Menendez). Their trial was a major national news story. 27 November 1971
Although homosexual murderers of single victims are too numerous to list here, a number of particularly famous ones include: Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb (the wealthy and academically bright gay Chicago couple who murdered a boy in 1924 just for fun; their story became one of the nation’s most famous murder cases, and was the basis for many movies, including Hitchcock’s film “Rope”); Armin Meiwes (the sexually deviant German cannibal known as “Der Metzgermeister” - The Master Butcher, who met a victim over the Internet who he ate and killed); John E. du Pont (the gay member of the wealthy du Pont famil who shot Olympic wrestler David Schultz to death); Gary Hirte (Waupaca, WI high school senior who admitted to killing 37-year-old substitute teacher Glenn Kopitske); Karla Homolka (Canadian lesbian who murdered her own sister). Other notable gay violent criminals include Kenneth Parnell (paid $500 to “purchase” a young black boy named Steven Stayner, who he then raped and kidnapped); John Wojtowicz (whose bank robbery inspired the movie Dog Day Afternoon).
Serial Killers who were Lesbians
Name # of People
Killed Year Killer’s Home Location of Murders Notes
Magdalena Solis 8 1963 Monterey, Mexico Mexico
Aileen Wuornos 7+ 1989-90 south of Daytona, Florida Florida killed male “johns”
Tyria Moore 7+ 1989-90 south of Daytona, Florida Florida killed male “johns”
Catherine Wood 6 Grand Rapids, MI Grand Rapids, MI nurse who killed patients
Gwen Graham 6 Grand Rapids, MI Grand Rapids, MI nurse who killed patients
Links
Homosexual Serial Murder Investigation, by Vernon J. Geberth, M.S., M.P.S.
Gay and Lesbian Murderers from 1920s to Present - by Lori Weiner
The aetiology of serial murder: towards an integrated model, by Edward W. Mitchell, B.A. Hons, M.Phil. (University of Cambridge, UK). Includes section on “Gender identity disorder, homosexuality, and sexual dysfunction”
The process of criminal profiling as it pertains to serial killers, by Susan Jones, Youngstown State University
Violence and Homosexuality - by Dr. Paul Cameron
Homosexuality: A Paradox of Evolution
——————————————————————————–
GBLT commentary: Why does gay America approve of a fact-based based homosexual serial killer movie such as “Monster” but disapprove of fictional homosexual serial killers?
By: Mark Adnum
Date: 28 April 2004
Headline: “Scary Monsters”
Source: spiked-online
URL: http://www.outrate.net/featuresmonster.html
[Excerpts]
A lesbian serial killer and her vampiric, crafty lesbian lover are the main characters of Monster, an acclaimed new film that also seems to have, incongruously, won the blessing of the gay and lesbian media and gay activists.
Gay magazines and newspapers around the world have given the film positive reviews, raving about Charlize Theron’s famous physical transformation, Christina Ricci’s pyrotechnic turn in a key supporting role, and director Patty Jenkin’s understated, effective approach to the sensational storyline. Planetout.com, a multimillion-hit-a-month online gay magazine, describes the film as ‘riveting, bleak and exceptionally intuitive’ and praises its ‘emotional complexity’. The Advocate, America’s leading gay glossy, says the film is ‘brutal [and] brilliant’.
The film hasn’t been called a masterpiece, but no gay publication I’ve seen has expressed irritation, concern or resentment over the gritty homo-killer tilt of the film, irks that have characterised gay relations with cinema for almost 30 years.
Things seem to have changed enormously from the days when murderous, negative or stealthy gay movie characters triggered geysers of vitriolic spittle from gay groups, who have a history of sensitivity to their big-screen representation. Most famously, they disrupted the location shoots of Cruising (1980) with whistles and mirrors, protested inside and outside the 1991 Oscars ceremony over the crowning of ‘gay negative’ The Silence of the Lambs at the expense of ‘gay positive’ My Own Private Idaho, and picketed cinemas showing Basic Instinct (1992), furious over the film’s murderous lesbians and ruining it for moviegoers entering the cinema by waving placards that revealed the surprise ending…
The current crop of gay films and TV shows feature gay characters that are inoffensive, American Dream-friendly and, above all, nice. Gay activists got their Russonic message across: unflattering gay characters will cause you more trouble than they’re worth, and happy shiny gay characters sell - you can make money.
So, in this Queer Eye context, the calm gay media response to Monster is anachronistic and confusing. We see Aileen Wuornos (Theron) get seduced by needy-yet-wily Selby (Ricci), a young lesbian kicked out of home for being gay who manipulates and uses the hopeless Wuornos to gain a bit of off-the-wall life experience. While Wuornos is out pulling Johns off the Interstate, unemployed Selby lounges at home watching TV, only getting up to complain about how bored she is when Wuornos - usually covered in blood - gets home from a hard day’s work.
Selby sells Wuornos up the river when the police close in, retreating back to her conservative family and sending her one-time gay lover to her fate (and, eventually, to the lethal injection room) as part of a favourable plea bargain. For her part, Wuornos corrupts and recruits Selby as an accessory to her prostitution, petty crimes and murders.
In short, if ever there was a movie about vampiric killer lesbians and stealthy, untrustworthy homosexuals who form secret pagan bonds yet who never forget how to slide, unnoticed, back into the suburban fold, Monster is it. The killer lesbians in Monster make those in Basic Instinct look like the lesbians in The Color Purple, and while one of them ends up condemned and executed by the state, the other is emotionally and psychologically destroyed after giving in to heteronormativity. On paper, Monster is a gay activist movie nightmare - so where’s the gay media backlash?
The first clue is that Monster is ‘based on a true story’. Theron’s celebrated performance was built on repeated watchings of videos of Wuornos speaking of her life, while the film, admirably, doesn’t seek to over-dramatise the facts or editorialise about Wuornos’ motives… Monster is a sensitive tale of a real woman who was both the lover of another woman and a serial killer. It doesn’t seem to matter, then, if the gay character kills, lies and ends up dead, as long as that’s what really happened to the character in real life.
Confusingly though, this reminds us of the existence of real gay and lesbian serial killers - Wuornos obviously, as well as Jeffrey Dahmer, Leopold and Loeb, John Wayne Gacy, Andrew Cunanan et al - and beg the question, what’s so offensive and problematic about including killer homosexual characters in films, when there are ample precedents in reality for such characters? Why the books, placards, picket lines and protests for so many decades? What difference does it make if gay movie killers are based on real-life examples, or whether they’re the invention of a screenwriter, especially since, even in ‘true story’ films, creative liberties have to be taken and there’s always substantial fictionalisation? Why does a film about an actual homosexual character get gay media approval, while a film with a fictional negative homosexual character - not necessarily a killer - get torn to shreds?…
Wuornos and Shelby are working-class Americans, struggling to get by and railing against the hypocrisies of the predominantly heterosexual society they have to live in. Like Thelma and Louise, they are heroic outlaw chicks, out to prove a few bloody fair-enough points about the crappy straight-male dominated system before they bond for life and go down in a proverbial hail of bullets. So, it doesn’t seem to be the killing or the stealth that’s been the problem all these years, but the exclusion of gay characters from the sympathies of the narrative, and through that, the audience. Kill all you like, as long as you’re located within the heart of the film, and presented to the audience as a struggling, sympathetic, preferably working-class person.
It’s a peculiar message though, surely, that gay audiences, and the media that represent them, won’t tolerate being the crazy killers on the fringe - they insist on having the right to serial kill like any other normal person.
——————————————————————————–
Homosexuality among Serial Killers: Statistics
Source, “over 43%”: “Homosexual Rape and Murder of Children”, published in Journal of the Family Research Institute, Vol. 18 No. 1, Feb 2003.
Technically, 69% of the serial killers in this study were homosexuals (i.e., people who were self-described homosexuals or people who had engaged in homosexual behavior immediately prior to, during, or after committing their murders). The lower statistic of 43% cited above is the proportion who were homosexual among people who molested or raped and then murdered children: 43% of these perpetrators were homosexuals. This lower figure, however, includes people who killed only a single person, and are thus not classified as serial killers. The lower figure is used in the article above (as “over 43%”) because it comes from a larger sample size. Presumably, if the sample size were expanded to include a wider range of years, the proportion of serial killers who are homosexuals would remain between the proportion in this study who are serial killers (69% homosexuals versus 31% heterosexuals) and the proportion of all killers in this study (43% homosexual versus 57% heterosexual). Also note the approximately 50% of murders committed by homosexuals reported by Warren with regards to murders of adults. See also: Gemert, F. van, “Chicken kills hawk: gay murders during the eighties in Amsterdam”, published in Journal of Homosexuality. 26(4), 149-174 (1994).
Excerpts, including methodology:
Lexis-Nexis Academic Universe, an on-line search service, scans the whole text of over 50 English regional and national newspapers, largely in the U.S., but also including major papers in Australia, England, Canada, and New Zealand (e.g., the Baltimore Sun, Boston Globe, Independent [London], Ottawa Citizen, etc.). For 1989 through 2002 inclusive, every news story that included “child molestation” was examined — a total of 6,444 stories which, after eliminating repeat stories about the same cases, reduced to 1,914 unique child molestation events. The 6,444 story database was double-checked by running “murder” and “killed” against it. Only news stories were tallied, not editorials or opinion pieces, so these were stories of fairly recent events.
One hundred and three news stories involved the rape and/or murder of children: 90 involved the molestation and murder of a child or children, 11 stories involved only the abduction and rape of children, and two the rape and mutilation, but not the murder, of the children involved. Of the 90 news stories where the child was raped and murdered (0.47% of the unique child molestation stories), 40% involved homosexual molestation.
In the most unusual case, an “educated and relatively wealthy” leader recruited two other men and a boy. This team raped and murdered precisely 100 boys 1. The leader had had prior arrests for suspicion of sodomizing boys…
Of the 95 perpetrators in these 90 stories, at least 43% engaged in homosexuality… Of the 217 victims, at least 68% were victimized by homosexual perpetrators, and at least 67% were boys… Furthermore, both multiple perpetrators and multiple victims were associated with homosexuality. In the three stories where two or more killers were implicated, the rapes were homosexual. In 69% of the 13 stories involving more than one victim, the perpetrator engaged in homosexuality. Another 11 stories involved a charge of attempted murder. In 64% of those cases, the perpetrator engaged in homosexuality.
When all other cases of child molestation from the Lexis-Nexis search are added to these stories, there were 2,181 perpetrators in the 1,914 distinct events whose sexual proclivities could be characterized by the sex of their victim: 41% engaged in sex with their own sex, the remaining 59% with the opposite sex (another 118 perpetrators violated at least 190 children whose sex was not given). Of the 5,630 underage victims of these molestations, 61% were victimized by individuals who engaged in homosexuality. And those who performed homosexual seductions were quite one-sided: 3,386 of their victims were boys, only 60 were girls.
Overall, there was a slightly higher rate of homosexuality among perpetrators who raped and killed than among those who “merely” raped or molested (43% vs. 41%). In addition, the proportion of victims attributed to homosexual perpetrators who raped and murdered was higher than the proportion attributed to homosexuals who only raped or molested (68% vs. 61%). All of the cases involving eating or torturing the victim were committed by homosexual practitioners…
Murder and child molestation combine[ed]… are also independently associated with those who engage in homosexuality. Blanchard, Barbaree, Bogaert, Dicky, Klassen, Kuban, and Zucker, working with male offenders, concluded in 2000 that 2 the “best epidemiological evidence indicates that only 2-4% of men attracted to adults prefer men; in contrast, around 25-40% of men attracted to children prefer boys…. Thus the rate of homosexual attraction is 6-20 times higher among pedophiles [those who have sex with children under the age of 12 yr.]” (p. 464).
Likewise, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual III-R (DSM III-R, 1987) 3 of the American Psychiatric Association, summarizing the clinical material about men, states that “Attraction to girls [aged 13 yr. or younger] is apparently twice as common as attraction to boys” and notes that the “course is usually chronic, especially in those attracted to boys…. The recidivism rate for people with Pedophilia involving a preference for the same sex is roughly twice that of those who prefer the opposite sex” (pp. 284-5).
Both of these sources estimated that about a third of child molesters engage in homosexuality — similar to the 41% of male perpetrators who ‘only’ raped the underage in the newspaper database. In other studies 4, it has also been found that male perpetrators who engage in homosexuality claim larger numbers of rape victims than non-homosexual rapists. For instance, 84% of the 28,574 children under the age of 14 who were raped in Abel, et al. were victimized by homosexuals. Also, the higher rates of recidivism by homosexuals noted in the DSM would imply more victims too.
In line with these reports, of the 217 victims in the 90 murder and rape stories, at least 68% were victimized by homosexual perpetrators. This 68% falls between the estimate that “roughly equal numbers of girls and boys, each year fall victim to some form of sexual exploitation” cited in a recent National Association of Social Workers review of a large set of studies of child molestation 5 and the 84% reported by Abel, et al.
Murder also appears to be disproportionately associated with homosexuality.