McCain on Carter’s Visit With Hamas
April 14th, 2008 at 03:54pm Mark Noonan
Hitting him hard:
U.S. Senator John McCain today issued the following statement on former President Carter’s plans to meet with Hamas:
“It is a grave and dangerous mistake for an American leader to meet with a terrorist organization like Hamas. Engaged in a campaign that deliberately targets innocent Israeli civilians, Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel . President Carter is wrong to meet with Hamas, a terrorist group that has also killed innocent Americans.
“The very idea that a former President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief would meet with a terrorist organization demands a clear stance from all presidential candidates. Refusing to take a stand, as Senator Obama has done, is not the strong leadership we need today. If Senator Obama is not decisive enough to condemn former President Carter, how can he be strong enough to deal with the threat they pose to America and to our allies?”
Jimmy Carter - mostly on the strength of his genuinely good work for Habitat for Humanity - has generated a reputation as a great ex-President and while no one can take away the good that he has done, the plain fact of the matter is that the net effect of Carter’s life has been negative for the world. From his disasterous stewardship of the Presidency in the 1970’s right on through to the present day, Carter’s continuing failure to understand that evil is to be confronted, not coddled, has led to one dangerous error after another. The worst example of this will always be his dangerously foolish handling of the 444-day long Iranian hostage crisis, but when he does things such as lend credibility to Hamas, he’s nearly equaling his worst. To take Hamas as other than a barbaric organization at war with all that is decent is to, de-facto, play the role of evil doer in the world. Carter would never strap a bomb on and blow up an Israeli, but he’s making it certain that more, rather than less, people will do such a thing.
Meanwhile, Obama’s unwillingness to straightforward condemn this foolishness, as well as his own foolhardy promise to meet with our enemies with no pre-conditions, indicates his fundamental unfitness to be President of the United States of America. While Obama makes efforts to liken himself to John Kennedy, there is a fundamental difference between the two men - Kennedy was inexperienced but with a fund of knowledge about how the world works; in other words, Kennedy could learn on the job, and did so. Obama, on the other hand, is inexperienced and his knowledge of the world is a hodge-podge of leftwing lies and half truths which makes the chances of his actually learning from his mistakes nil - and that means grave danger for the United States. An unteachable President is a disaster in the making (as we saw from 1977 to 1981 with Carter - who was also unteachable, and remains so to this day - so off he goes to meet Hamas).
Some have said that a President Obama would be like President Carter, and they are right - but keep in mind that the terror sponsors were in their infancy when Carter played blind-man’s-bluff with them…now they are an ace away from WMD’s, and the ability to get them into the United States. It was bad enough when Carter allowed the Iranian mullahs to jerk our chain and humiliate us for 444 days when they had no ability to either withstand us, or attack us…what will Carter II do when the mullahs are holding millions hostage via ballistic missiles, and have the ability to attack us?
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats, Republicans, War on Terror
41 Comments
1. FmrMarine | April 14th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Mark;
“It is a grave and dangerous mistake for an American leader to meet with a terrorist organization like Hamas. Engaged in a campaign that deliberately targets innocent Israeli civilians, Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel . President Carter is wrong to meet with Hamas, a terrorist group that has also killed innocent Americans.”
This is why JC was the WORST, most INEPT, President of all time.
He is a loose cannon that needs to be tied down.
The Justice dept. should be drawing up charges as we speak, at least,
and maybe one of hamas missiles will blast him into eternity at BEST.
2. Joe | April 14th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
FmrMarine:
The Justice dept. should be drawing up charges as we speak, at least,
and maybe one of hamas missiles will blast him into eternity at BEST.
Now THAT is some kind of classy debate from the local neandrethal.
“It is a grave and dangerous mistake for an American leader to meet with a terrorist organization like Hamas. Engaged in a campaign that deliberately targets innocent Israeli civilians, Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel . President Carter is wrong to meet with Hamas, a terrorist group that has also killed innocent Americans.
What do you want to do, just bomb the hell out of them?
Why the hell are you people so against talking? Why will you people refuse to talk to enemies?
If you have a disagreement with a neighbor for example (I don’t know… maybe they have a couple of old ratty cars on cynder blocks that is partly on your property). Do you go over and set their house on fire? Do you go over and punch him out or worse?
Or do you try talking sense into him? Try and convince him to move the cars.
You people have to get over yourselves and actually talk to people you don’t like.
3. steveGA | April 14th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Why exactly must Obama condemn what Jimmy Carter does? Carter holds no official position in our government and does not speak for it. What exactly does Mccain think that Carter leads today?
As President, don’t you think Obama (or Mccain, for that matter) would have something better to do than condemning the legal actions of non-government individuals? Why does it then matter whether Obama or Mccain condemns these actions now?
You Republicans are truly silly people.
4. Aztec | April 14th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
So with Mccain it certainly will be more of the same. We don’t negotiate with people we disagree with. Makes perfect sense to some.
The last paragraph sums it up pretty well, after not talking to them for 25 years they’ve gone from a small ineffectual group to an organization close to having WMD. Let’s keep doing what we’re doing it’s working so well.
5. FmrMarine | April 14th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
joe;
>>>Why the hell are you people so against talking? Why will you people refuse to talk to enemies?<<<
YOU PEOPLE????? WTF
I believe is the islamic nutroots in the middle east that will not “TALK” to Isreal.
They have attacked them SIX times and when their pitiful “armies” were squashed like bugs they resorted to blowing up……trains, pizza shops, buses, buildings, ships, murder, rape, be headings and you want to “talk to them????
YEAH ole jimmih and berry hussein can sing kumbayah while they are nuking Isreal.
6. JD | April 14th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
“when the mullahs are holding millions hostage via ballistic missiles, and have the ability to attack us” - not gonna happen. This is yet another claim the neoconservatives would have US believe that is simply not true.
7. Joe | April 14th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
FmrMarine,
Typical answer.
“Hamas has been bad. Let’s take our ball and go home!!”
Grow up. Ignoring them has done nothing. But damn man… let’s keep it up. At this rate, they WILL get WMD’s and do serious damage!
Meanwhile, in the real world… grown ups would opt to talk to the enemy to try and deter them from doing what they are doing.
8. Mark Noonan | April 14th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
JD,
Are you a soothsayer? Then how can you say that it definitely won’t happen?
Evidence indicates it is what the mullahs want to do, and that they are fully capable of such evil - upon what do you base your assertion that it won’t happen?
9. Mark Noonan | April 14th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Joe,
How does talking deter them? Did it deter Wilhelm II? Lenin? Stalin? Hitler? Franco? Mussolini? Pol Pot? Mao?
Where are your examples of talking tyrants out of their maniacal dreams?
10. Mark Noonan | April 14th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
steveGA,
Because he is a senior member of the Democratic party and a de-facto supporter of Obama…it is up to Obama to let us know if he agrees, or disagrees, with Carter’s actions.
11. John McCain News » &hellip | April 14th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
[…] Read the rest of this great post here […]
12. Joe | April 14th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Mark,
You claim this:
Some have said that a President Obama would be like President Carter, and they are right…
Are YOU a soothsayer? Then how can YOU say that will definitely happen?
13. FmrMarine | April 14th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
joe joe joe
>>>>If you have a disagreement with a neighbor for example (I don’t know… maybe they have a couple of old ratty cars on cynder blocks that is partly on your property). Do you go over and set their house on fire? Do you go over and punch him out or worse?
Or do you try talking sense into him? Try and convince him to move the cars.<<<<
Why do you think conservatives are red necks?
I live in a neighborhood with $300,000.00 houses.
We have deed restrictions.
We would call zoning, or the local cops.
THEN
we would punch them out …..LOL
14. Diana Powe | April 14th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Senator McCain chimes in on the completely idiotic notion that talking to people is the same thing as endorsing them. Yes, no one should talk to Hamas especially since any possible resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian situation will undoubtedly involve Hamas which currently holds more than half of the elected seats in the Palestinian Assembly. This is such a completely radical idea that within the last year, a Conservative British MP, Michael Ancram, has called for talks with Hamas:
15. Joe | April 14th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Mark re: #9.
First of all… Carter is not part of the U.S. Administration or a policy maker. He is there as a member of this world. If he wants to try and negotiate some sort of peace, all the more power to him.
McCain should be happy for something like this. Anything positive that can come from it would do nothing but help his job should he become President.
Are you comparing Hamas to the powers of Germany under Hitler, Russia under Lenin and Stalin, etc? That is a bit of a stretch, ain’t it?
We are just trying to get them to stop lobbing the missiles into Israel. Some sort of negotiation can most certainly work. Certainly work better than just bombing them.
The bottom line is that talking doesn’t hurt anything. If talks don’t work, then you can apply more pressure. This goes for Hamas or Iran or wherever else.
16. Joe | April 14th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
FmrMarine,
When did I claim that conservatives are rednecks? That would be you assuming something was said when it wasn’t.
17. Casper | April 14th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
“Mark Noonan | April 14th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Joe,
How does talking deter them? Did it deter Wilhelm II? Lenin? Stalin? Hitler? Franco? Mussolini? Pol Pot? Mao?”
So when did a former, or even current president talk to any of the above? The only one I can think of is FDR talking to Stalin, and he was an Ally at the time. Since, to my knowledge, we didn’t talk to any of the others, how do you know it wouldn’t have helped?
18. Joe | April 14th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Carter said:
But of course the Administration wants to take their ball and go home:
But hey.. when Carter gets back, sure we’d like to hear what he has to say…
Of course, it doesn’t matter what he says, they will have their hands over their ears…
They are like children.
19. Diana Powe | April 14th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Deleted - off topic. To be entirely fair, Ed Note will give you three more chances. If there is a third time in future that you go off topic, you’ll be banned. Just stop it - we decide what we’ll talk about on Blogs for Victory, not you.
20. Rich | April 14th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Would you libs talk to a rapist that moves next to your house? Would talking to him make you feel better about him living next door? Would you believe his word that he will stay away from your family? After talking to him would you sleep better at night? Would this rapist, having talked to you, see the light and change his ways?
21. FmrMarine | April 14th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Mark;
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iihUfGqvvx-3JR2f5A_1zmdK0cmgD901TQVO0
What is Hamas?
Hamas is the largest and most influential Palestinian militant movement. In January 2006, the group won the Palestinian Authority’s (PA) general legislative elections, defeating Fatah, the party of the PA’s president, Mahmoud Abbas, and setting the stage for a power struggle. Since attaining power, Hamas has continued its refusal to recognize the state of Israel, leading to crippling economic sanctions. Hamas maintained a cease-fire brokered in March 2005 until June 9, 2006, when it ended the truce after reports that errant Israeli shell killed several civilians on a Gaza beach. The Israeli Defense Forces later denied responsibility for the deaths.
* Islamic terrorist group founded in 1987
* Received funding from Saddam Hussein
* Receives funding from Iran
* Responsible for many suicide bombings and terrorist acts against Israeli targets
Hamas (an acronym for Harakat al-Muqawamat al-Islamiyya, or “Islamic Resistance Movement”) is a radical fundamentalist group founded on December 14, 1987 by the Muslim Brotherhood. ( Hamas describes itself as “one of the wings of the Muslim Brother[hood].”) As a single Arabic word rather than an acronym, “Hamas” means “zeal.” Its avowed purpose is “liberating Palestine” from the Jew “oppressors,” whose presence in the Middle East it considers an affront to Muslims’ rightful sovereignty in the land of the Prophet Mohammad. The organization’s individual co-founders were Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz al Rantisi.
With tens of thousands of loyal supporters, Hamas’ strength is concentrated principally in the Gaza Strip and a few areas of the West Bank. The group’s leadership is dispersed throughout these same areas, with a few senior leaders residing in Syria, Lebanon, and the Gulf States. Hamas receives some funding from Iran but is supported primarily by donations from Palestinian expatriates around the world and private benefactors in Arab nations. Some clandestine fundraising takes place in Western Europe and North America as well. When the United Nations Oil-For-Food program was in effect, Saddam Hussein skimmed more than $21 billion from its coffers and sent some of it it directly to Hamas.
Hamas has a close working relationship with Hezbollah, the Lebanon-based terror organization that is one of Hamas’ major suppliers of weaponry. Hamas is best known for using violent methods — including suicide bombings against Israeli military and civilian targets — to destroy Israel and replace it with an Islamic Palestinian state.
The Hamas Charter, written in 1988, puts forth “The Slogan of the Hamas,” which reads as follows: “Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path, and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief.” The Charter says that jihad, or holy war, “becomes an individual duty binding on every Muslim man and woman; a woman must go out and fight the enemy even without her husband’s authorization, and a slave without his masters’ permission.”
The Hamas Charter explicitly abjures negotiated settlements as mechanisms for peaceful coexistence: “There is no other solution for the Palestinian problem other than jihad. All the initiatives and international conferences are a waste of time and a futile game.” According to the Charter, those against whom jihad is to be directed are the Jews. “The Nazism of the Jews,” it says, “does not skip women and children, it scares everyone. They make war against people’s livelihood, plunder their moneys and threaten their honor.” Hamas seeks to fulfill the Qur’anic scripture which reads: “The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!” To view additional quotes from the Hamas Charter, click here.
Hamas’ rejection of negotiated settlements was given voice in October 2000 by its founder and then-leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, who was killed on March 22, 2004, by Hellfire missiles fired by Israeli helicopter gun ships. Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat eulogized Yassin and declared three days of mourning.
Yassin was immediately replaced by Hamas co-founder Abdel Aziz al Rantisi, who had escaped an Israeli assassination attempt in June 2003. The 54-year-old pediatrician initially threatened retaliatory attacks against both Israel and the United States, but later said that Hamas would target only Israel. On April 17, 2004, An Israeli helicopter launched a strike on Rantisi’s car, killing him and two others — one of them a bodyguard.
That same month, Yasser Arafat told the German magazine Focus that he was prepared to include Hamas and Islamic Jihad in a new leadership structure to operate in parallel with the Palestinian Authority. “Forming a unified Palestinian leadership does not contradict the Palestinian Authority,” Fatah Central Committee member Hani al-Hassan told Fatah-connected newspaper Al-Ayyam, “as it is an internal Palestinian factional issue.” “We think that all political movements should take part in the political decision-making process,” agreed senior Hamas figure Sheikh Said Siam. “We want a political partnership along new guidelines which take into account the weight of the various movements.” But this alleged diversity of political viewpoints was illusory. On January 3, 2003, PLO political chief Farouq Al-Qaddoumi candidly acknowledged that Fatah, “strategically,” was “never different from Hamas.”
22. FmrMarine | April 14th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Joe;
So tell US here what would - YOU - say to these islamic nutjobs to convince them to end their jihad ?
Tell we are anxiously waiting!
The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”
“The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. ”
“There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”
“After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.”
Ami Isseroff
23. JD | April 14th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Based on the credibility of the Cheney/Bush administration. They want US to make believe that Iran is a threat to US. They have zero credibility because of their previous track record in Iraq. I would be much more leery and suspicious of the Iranian government and their plans if Cheney/Bush came out and told us how much love and peace and harmony we share with them and how we will be best friends forever.
24. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | April 14th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
There is no point in me trying to do the older wiser teacher thing so I will just offer Noonan some simply clear information in the form of a question, since he is, as I am a supporter of Israel’s right to exist.
Mr Noonan: Where are Israel’s nuclear missile pointed?
25. Pain | April 14th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Well the hostage taking in terms of realpolitik was the culmination of the US led coup d’etat against Mohammed Mossadegh in 1953 who was the legally elected Prime Minister. The only way the iranian students were going to be taken seriously was to take hostages and demand that the clerics in exile be allowed to return. America was the greatest ally of the Shah and thus their citizens became the most valuable bargaining chips.
The America military when the hostages were taken was still recovering from being in a shambles from the end of the Vietnam War. New weapons systems were coming online and drugs were a widespread problem in all branches. Mounting an operation to rescue the hostages at best was a 50 50 proposition and as you all know it failed miserbly.
Carter also found himself in a brutal economic condition brought on my stagflation and rising unemployment. All the things that could go wrong did but all of the Iranian situation was not Jimmy Carter’s fault most of it was the fault of the policies of Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Ford and Nixon toward the Shah Pahlavi and his oil reserves.
26. bongoman | April 14th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Thanks for bringing that up Pain.
Those who spin the “war” by Iran against us typically date it from the hostage crisis. They fail to track back 25 years or so to 1953 when we helped overthrow a democratic regime, paving the way for the excesses of the Pahlavi regime which in turn gave way to the excesses of the Islamic Revolution. Can’t say that one wasn’t about oil.
27. congressive | April 14th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Noooo, don’t talk to them. How can we kill them and feel great about it if we talk first?
They hired Hamas to costar in “I Am Legend” as the infected humanoids, and didn’t even need to use makeup.
Will Smith did the right thing…
28. SEW | April 14th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
And the next Jimmy Carter is…… Or will he be the next FatAl Gore, Francois Kerry, George McGovern or Mike Dukakis? At least Barry has expressed a desire to meet with his buddies, following Jimmy’s lead.
And on to Little Miss Non Sequitir.
“Now, don’t you think that’s a bit unfair. Why, it was just yesterday that President Bush’s crackerjack National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley was on television with ABC’s George Stephanopoulos and said “Nepal” eight times when he was trying to say something about Tibet. Oops.”
And she wonders why her posts are deleted for being off topic!
29. Joe | April 14th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Joe;
So tell US here what would - YOU - say to these islamic nutjobs to convince them to end their jihad ?
FmrMarine (#22) - What a stupid question. Since I am not there and not qualified to negotiate with them, I wouldn’t know what to do. Carter, having had oh… just a bit of experience with Mid East peace talks probably would be better qualified than I.
Rich, so because you THINK you know that you can’t take their word on something, then you just don’t try? That isn’t too bright. Isn’t it worth trying in order to avoid bloodshed?
Let’s think about this. You come to some sort of agreement on something. It is signed by both parties. Everybody knows about it. If they break it, then you hve the entire world behind you. If you don’t talk to them and they piss you off, then you are working on your own.
Seriously… talking to someone other than friends is helpful.
30. Freedom1 | April 14th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Bravo, McCain!!
Hamas Cleric Predicts Two Americas, Europe and “Rome Will Be Conquered by Islam” (Video) -MEMRI TV
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351242,00.html
31. Doug | April 14th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Joe,
If my neighbors swore to wipe me and my family off the face of the earth, then periodically lobbed grenades into my yard while my children were playing then I don’t really think I would be going over there to find some sort of ‘peaceful’ solution. Then again maybe I’m just a bitter redneck.
32. Rana Quijotesca | April 15th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Before we start mentally masturbating to our fake patriotism (a little late for that, sadly), let’s take stock in what’s going on…
Palestine, through urging by the United States, held democratic elections, which wound up putting Hamas, a terrorist group, into power.
We flipped out and cut our aid to the people of Palestine. The combination of that and the fact that Israel typically makes the life of Palestinians difficult (with walls and such) not only royally screws-over average Joe Palestinian, it cements anti-Israeli and anti-American sentiments in the region.
Essentially, we got Palestine to have elections, then punished (and are continuing to punish) them for electing people that we didn’t like to power…
So, if we are not going to attack them and remove Hamas by force, then what are we going to do? Are we going to continue to let innocent Palestinians (yes, they exist) suffer because of their electoral preferences?
Perhaps talking isn’t such a bad thing after all…
33. congressive | April 15th, 2008 at 2:12 am
Looks like we better outlaw religion… pronto!
34. congressive | April 15th, 2008 at 2:13 am
BTW, was Bush abducted by aliens or something? Where’s his “leadership” in all this?
35. congressive | April 15th, 2008 at 4:07 am
To be fair, I have to commend McCain for getting “Carter” and “Hamas” correct.
THE ARMY TIMES, a VERY “Support Our Troops” website, caught another confused senior moment of McCain to accompany his “Iran is training al Qaeda” gaffe.
“It is a grave and dangerous mistake for an American leader to drop his Cartier in his Hummus…”
36. Jonathan | April 15th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
He’s right! The U.S. doesn’t negotiate with the evil-doers! We bomb those s.o.b.’s back to the stone-age, and put a boot up their ass, because that’s the American way! [/sarcasm off]
Since when did this country ever condemn a leader for making an attempt to promote and use diplomacy with their enemies? And McCain must be getting senile, since a certain former president that he establishes himself to be used diplomacy in dealing with the former Soviet Union.
Where does McCain get off saying some stupid BS like that?
37. Jeremiah | April 15th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Ok, let’s negotiate with the terrorists…
“Pet the little terrorists, be nice terrorists…aawwe, cute little terrorists….shake hands with the terrorists”
In the terrorists mind, he’s going “Muaahahaha, Muahahaha”
Why, after they got what they want from Carter they would cut his head off so fast, it would spin…in the blink of an eye.
Shame on you, Mr. Carter, Shame on you!!!!!!
You traitorous scum.
38. Freedom1 | April 15th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Obama’s Terror Ties -By IBD
39. congressive | April 15th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Hey Jeremiah:
2 Kings 6:22 He answered, “You shall not kill them. Would you kill those you have taken captive with your sword and with your bow? Set bread and water before them, that they may eat and drink and go to their master.”
Proverbs 25:21 If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink;
Matthew 5:44 “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Luke 6:27 “But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
I can’t find the verse that says “kill kill kill thine enemy…” Can you help me out here?
40. Doug | April 15th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
congressive… since you seem to enjoy taking random passages out of the bible and apply them to whatever you wish, then you suredly can understand deuteronomy 13:8-9 and see how Christians and Jews have heeded that lesson and how the Muslims ‘have not’.
41. Jeremiah | April 15th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Congressive:
Read the book of Joshua.