Michael Yon on Iraq
April 22nd, 2008 at 03:59am Mark Noonan
From an interview over at NRO:
Lopez: What is al-Qaeda’s view of masculinity and how does it differ from the American military’s?
Yon: Al-Qaeda models a street gang notion of masculinity in which the cruelest, most destructive and bullying are seen as the toughest and most admired. Raping children and murdering their parents is a gang-banger’s way of asserting his masculinity. And a lot of al-Qaeda recruits are young gang members who join up for the money, the drugs, and the guns.
For the American soldier the ideal of masculinity is “protect and serve,” especially the weak, and women and kids. It means killing the bad guys.
When al-Qaeda murderers detonate a bomb in the middle of a crowd of school children, our guys rush the kids to the medics. Then they go kill the terrorists. They are really good at both. They may enjoy hanging out with kids more than killing terrorists, but it’s a close call. Our guys really like killing terrorists…
…Lopez: Why do you spend most of your time with infantry troops and not special forces?
Yon: Our Special Forces are great. I used to be one of them. But a lot of what they do can’t be written about. I did a Special Forces mission a few weeks ago. In fact it was my last mission to date. Meanwhile infantry soldiers are great to talk to because they really don’t have time for anything but the unvarnished truth. Some army or state department bureaucrat might issue a memo like “The tenuous security situation in Ramadi makes it advisable to don protective headgear in situations in which visitors may be exposed to hostile fire.” The infantry will just put up a sign that says “The last dumbass who didn’t duck got shot in the head.”…
…Lopez: Tell me about the Iraqi security forces.
Yon: Well here’s the good news: whatever problems they have, lack of courage is not one of them. Iraqis are brave fighters. Any badly led or badly trained unit can panic under fire, but few Iraqi soldiers are cowards. I have seen Iraqi regulars and even militia perform courageously under fire. Some units are better than others, but some like the Iraqi 2nd and 3rd Divisions have solid reputations.
The bad news is that it takes a long time to train a modern army and the hardest skills to train don’t necessarily have to do with engaging the enemy in combat on any given day. There is an old saying “amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics.” Logistics, administering a base that is really a small city, moving 20,000 men cross-country to attack “from the march”: those are partly MBA skills and they just take a while.
Bottom line: They have improved amazingly. On my first stay in Iraq in 2004-05, I would often take cover whenever I saw an Iraqi soldier with a gun. In 2007 Coalition forces held the city of Mosul, against heavy terrorist opposition, with one U.S. battalion, about 750 men. We could do that only because Iraqi security forces, army and police, bore most of the burden. The Iraqis do most of the fighting these days….
Read the whole thing.
The truth about Iraq is not what we see in our conventional MSM reporting, and it certainly isn’t what we see on television - even the most honest and informed MSM reporters (and there are some who are quite good) simply can’t tell the whole story. To get the whole story you have to piece things together from a wide variety of sources, and constantly check the view your getting with those who have been there the longest and seen things at their worst - Michael Yon is one such man, and his contribution to understanding the war - for those who want to take the time to do so - has been invaluable. In a normal world, Yon would already have a couple Pulitzer’s…he’ll, instead, have to settle for the respect of those who have read his work over the years (which, in the end, is probably better than a Pulitzer, anyways).
Entry Filed under: War on Terror
60 Comments
1. Iraq » Michael Yon &hellip | April 22nd, 2008 at 6:03 am
[...] Mark Noonan wrote an interesting post today on Michael Yon on IraqHere’s a quick excerptOn my first stay in Iraq in 2004-05, I would often take cover whenever I saw an Iraqi soldier with a gun. In 2007 Coalition forces held the city of Mosul, against heavy terrorist opposition, with one US battalion, about 750 men. … [...]
2. robert w. blunt | April 22nd, 2008 at 6:46 am
I don’t know anything about the credentials of this Yon, but I see his name referenced in many clnservative blogs. This makes it difficult to assess the legitimacy of his accounts.
I do know something about the credentials of Joseph Collins, former Undersecretary of Defense under Rumsfeld. He recently authored a report for theNational Defense University (hardly a hotbed of liberal thought) entitled “Choosing War” in which he wrote:
“Measured in blood and treasure, the war in Iraq has achieved the status of a major war and a major debacle. …The war’s political impact also has been great. Globally, U.S. standing among friends and allies has fallen.2 Our status as a moral leader has been damaged by the war, the subsequent occupation of a Muslim nation, and various issues concerning the treatment of detainees. At the same time, operations in Iraq have had a negative impact on all other efforts in the war on terror, which must bow to the priority of Iraq when it comes to manpower, materiel, and the attention of decisionmakers. Our Armed Forces– especially the Army and Marine Corps–have been severely strained by the war in Iraq. Compounding all of these problems, our efforts there were designed to enhance U.S. national security, but they have become, at least temporarily, an incubator for terrorism and have emboldened Iran to expand its influence throughout the Middle East.”
Gee, this study was reported last week. I’ve waited and looked daily to see if you had any comments. Guess not. Let’s see if you can spin this.
3. Christian Wright | April 22nd, 2008 at 7:39 am
The truth about Iraq. Sadr was able to defeat Iraqi forces because the president of Iraq did not want to win. Detail below.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JD19Ak01.html
4. Christian Wright | April 22nd, 2008 at 7:41 am
And, of course, there is always this to think about.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JD23Ak05.html
5. InDaVa | April 22nd, 2008 at 9:09 am
Michael Yon writes very well and shows that the Iraqis are making some progress in the neighborhood he is in….as they should. Not a bad interview, but it doesn’t really say anything new. Maybe some reinforcement for some people.
I always hear the Iraqis are ‘improving’ or ‘getting better everyday’ which I believe to be true but I take it with a grain of salt.
6. The js | April 22nd, 2008 at 9:18 am
Good blog!
http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/iraq/
7. sam | April 22nd, 2008 at 9:22 am
Deleted - slanders the men and women of the United States armed forces.
8. bagni | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:08 am
markyon….
the spockposse isn’t that familiar with yon
but we do have great respect for soliders and vets
but as always….we’re confused
his answer to the first question?
makes him sound kinda insane?
especially when he tries to combine his love for children and the killing of terrorists in the same breath?
maybe it’s us……
9. Rich | April 22nd, 2008 at 11:08 am
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080421/ts_csm/osadrcity
“On Saturday, Iraqi forces announced they had taken over the last Mahdi Army stronghold in Basra in operations with US and British forces. The Americans have been pressing Maliki for more than a year to confront the Shiite militias that have gained a stronghold over much of southern Iraq.”
Christian Wright- I suggest you change your talking points. You look like an idiot.
10. neocon | April 22nd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
“The Iraqis do most of the fighting these days……” - Yon
That’s all that really needs to be said.
And Rich, Christian is your run of the mill racist liberal and I have the posts to prove it. Don’t I Christian. He is a prototypical indictrinated lemming of the left sans any ability for objective thought. In other words; an idiot.
11. Joe | April 22nd, 2008 at 4:04 pm
“The Iraqis do most of the fighting these days……” - Yon
That’s all that really needs to be said.
——
Fantastic!!!! Now we can pull back. That really is great news. Now we don’t have to spend $12 billion a month any longer. When do the troops start coming home?
12. FmrMarine | April 22nd, 2008 at 6:42 pm
blunt
TOTAL B#!! S#!T !
you have been smoking to many BLUNTs
13. FmrMarine | April 22nd, 2008 at 6:44 pm
sam
>>>>you see your men as brave soldiers.<<<
We are come and meet us some night.
As far as torture goes…panties on the head? dogs barking?
ASK Mr BERG.
14. ViralNexus | April 22nd, 2008 at 8:25 pm
I usually don’t ever feel the need to do this but-
SAM YOU ARE AN (expletive deleted)- SHUT THE (expletive deleted) UP!!!
How dare you, you little piss ant. As dead set as I am against this war and this horrible administration I can’t just allow you to defame people you 1) know nothing about and 2) don’t have the balls to join. These soldiers are, as I did before them, doing their f’ing jobs. They have a sense of duty and obligation and are doing the best they can. The things you pointed to are a consequence of a poorly conceived and ran war of occupation but the portriat you try to paint of the average American soldier is unfounded and complete bullshit. Yes, some soldiers have made terrible mistakes but overall they are by and large good people who are trying to make a difference the only way they can. In short, GO TO HELL SAM!!
15. ViralNexus | April 22nd, 2008 at 8:36 pm
FmrMarine- You are a prime example of what is wrong with your own viewpoint. This Michael Yon compares al Qaeda to gang bangers - money, drugs, and guns. The statement is absolutely ludicrous for starters- he assumes he knows the motivations of gang members and then says al Qaeda members have the same motivation. For one he is dead wrong about the motivations of “gang bangers” especially here in the US and if he had ever read a book on the motivations of terrorists and suicide bombers (Dying to Win being a good place to start) he would know how idiotic that statement really is. Secondly, I knew very few soldiers whose sole motivation for signing up was the notion of “protect and serve”. I’m sure we all had held that sentiment but the reasons we joined were far more complicated than that. This exposes the insanity and ignorance of your own viewpoint because you then completely discount and disregard a far more thoughtful and thought provoking piece from a reputable source that has actually engaged in research and discussion. All Mr. Yon did was assume he knew what the hell he was talking about but even to the most dimwitted it is obvious that he is full of it.
16. Kahn | April 22nd, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Robert Blunt wrote “I don’t know anything about the credentials of this Yon” Stop, then find out and spare us your prejudice. Anything in your post after this statement is irrelevant.
Kind of like Joe not believing the post of the anti-troops rally I did. Until I posted linkjs to several other (including liberal) sources. You don’t believe what you see? Read.
17. Kahn | April 22nd, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Please note that apparently sam is an anti-American Arab going to school here in the states. he won’t admit where he is from, but he has alluded to it before. He hates us, and he hates our troops.
Of course, he’s getting educated here, because the schools in his home nation are ludicrous. But he still thinks the education he got as a kid in hate and bombing is superior.
18. Kahn | April 22nd, 2008 at 9:06 pm
ViralNexus - Sam ius NOT an American. He would NEVER join our military. Hamas or Al Queda maybe, but all he wants from us is an education. But not wisdom.
19. js | April 22nd, 2008 at 9:15 pm
not so hard to find good stuff on Iraq if you look;
http://www.vets4victory.com/frontlines.html
wow, might even have some potential there…blogs for victory….vets4victory….hmmm
20. Mark Noonan | April 23rd, 2008 at 12:13 am
Viral,
You are aware that Yon is a former soldier and has spent a vast amount of time over the past five years in Iraq and Afghanistan? That he holds Administration failures responsible for the insurgency which is just now being defeated?
Yon is the most reliable source of information available about Iraq - in all his reports, there has never been indicated a falsehood or, indeed, even just an egregious mistake honestly entered into.
As for the motivations of the terrorists - I’ll buy his story of what motivates them far before I’ll buy yours…and, think about it, do you really think there’s that many people who are ready to voluntarily blow themselves up? No, they are in a lot of respects exactly like a criminal gang…dupes make up most of the suicide bombers (and I’m doubtful that a lot of them are even suicide - easy enough to trigger a “suicide car bomb” remotely while the driver merely thinks he’s delivering explosives) - dupes and those who have their whole families under threat of extermination if they don’t do what they’re told.
21. Mark Noonan | April 23rd, 2008 at 12:15 am
Robert,
Nothing worth spinning - just another hack job by people who have it in for Bush and will just twist the data any way they want…I doubt that anyone will even bother reviewing it and crushing its views under actual facts…we’re all just tired of dealing with nonsense like that.
22. Freedom1 | April 23rd, 2008 at 3:05 am
More GREAT NEWS from IRAQ!
Al Qaeda Decapitated in Iraq - The Strategy Page
23. robert w. blunt | April 23rd, 2008 at 6:38 am
Mark,
Collins and National Defense University are hardly hacks twisting the facts. They are supporters of the war who have rendered an in-house assessment of the war. You, as usual, have stooped to ad hominem attacks (against people from your side) rather than deal with the contents of the assessment.
Consider a side-by-side comparison of the credentials of Yon and Collins.
24. sam | April 23rd, 2008 at 10:26 am
Kahn
first of all. I am an Iranian-American. I am NOT a US citizen but a French citizen. I was born and raised in Europe, moved to the States at 14 and have been here since (im 26 now).
Off course i have no loyalty to this c ountry. I used this country to get my undergraduate, and JD/MBA degrees. I make a great living and have a wonderful life, but i would love to see this coutnry burn for all the crimes it has committed.
Sue me, who cares what you say or think Kahn, your an old demented sorry man.
25. sam | April 23rd, 2008 at 10:29 am
ViralNexus,
STOP being so naive, those soldiers joined the military because they had no other choice. because their opportunities were not as good as the next person who didn’t join. You make it seem as if all the men and women in the US military are these honorable, freedom loving people…WRONG! they are far from it.
I don’t care if they are good people doing a job. if doing a job means killing innocent people and occupying a foreign nation, then criminals here in the States are freedom loving patriots as well. hahaha..silly americans.
26. Tractatus | April 23rd, 2008 at 11:06 am
I doubt that anyone will even bother reviewing it and crushing its views under actual facts
Because you’re afraid of it and have no “facts” with which to “crush its views.”
Poor little man.
27. Some Assembly Required | April 23rd, 2008 at 11:10 am
Sam, careful man (or woman), saying you are an Iranian-American and that you’d love to see the US burn for it’s crimes in the one post may give some of these nuts pretext to invade Iran.
I agree and disagree with you sir. War is terrible and both sides commit atrocities. To deny this is to be hypocritical. It’s the winning side which dictates who and what are war crimes and who is convicted. Point in case, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If Japan had won anyone linked to those bombs would have been hung as war criminals.
What I do not agree with it how blunt you are sometimes. But, thats just my opinion because in the US can you be as blunt as you want to be. Dick Cheney is a prime example!
28. sam | April 23rd, 2008 at 11:28 am
i agree SAR, history is written by the victor.
being blunt is the only thing these neocon’s understand. if you give them an inch, they will take a mile.
I always thought the big problem with democrats was that they were scared to pick a fight and stand up to republicans. they always take the more humanitarian approach instead of the cut throat approach that republicans have.
Like bill maher says, democrats are like diet coke, and republicans are like coke…….when given a choice, most people like the taste of coke better, even though they know diet coke is better for you.
29. InDaVa | April 23rd, 2008 at 12:07 pm
“STOP being so naive, those soldiers joined the military because they had no other choice. because their opportunities were not as good as the next person who didn’t join. You make it seem as if all the men and women in the US military are these honorable, freedom loving people…WRONG! they are far from it.”
Ahhh..the fuzzy foreigner who is most likely freeloading off our education system knows all about our military. Yes, sam the men and women in the US military ARE honorable, freedom loving people. Try again sam…
30. Plantation Owner | April 23rd, 2008 at 12:17 pm
sam,
an iranian from france?
explains alot.
31. bob | April 23rd, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Its more than “some assembly required”……
32. bob | April 23rd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
You must be from Canada, you stuff doesn’t make sense. “Point in case, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If Japan had won anyone linked to those bombs would have been hung as war criminals.” Just think about that….and you should stick to hockey.
33. sam | April 23rd, 2008 at 1:18 pm
InDava,
Im sure you would know that the men and women in the US army are all freedom loving people..hahahahahaha…riiighht……
and who said I was freeloading off your education system…i paid for every last cent of my education…but thats besides the point, you republicans like to make assumptions now and ask questions later……hahahahaha…
34. sam | April 23rd, 2008 at 1:20 pm
PO….you must be the typical racist white old man who is pissed off at the world because blacks and minorities are taking your precious jobs……hahaha…wow, sometimes you wonder how this country can even operate with people like you living in it……
the time will soon come…don’t worry..
35. InDaVa | April 23rd, 2008 at 2:13 pm
“Im sure you would know that the men and women in the US army are all freedom loving people..hahahahahaha…riiighht……”
Yes, sam I do know because I’m an American and proud of it. And you are? Why not goto school in the middle east then? or Europe? You come to the USA to get the best education you can, that’s why. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be here. Like I said…freeloading.
36. Some Assembly Required | April 23rd, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Billy Joe….bob,
First, I’m impressed with your play on words regarding my name truly original. Next time might I suggest calling me SARS… like the disease.
‘Case in Point’ is how that quote should read. It was a typo a gaffe if you will. I used what the US did to Japan in the second world war as an example to prove a point. Just because you can’t comprehend my post, does not mean it makes any less sense but thank you for your ignorance.
37. sam | April 23rd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
you know that all the men and women enlisted in your military are freedom loving because you are american????? i hope thats not a serious statement…..
and second of all, i did one year abroad in ofxford during law school and loved it. in fact, i may move to london to work for my lawfirms branch over there.
and once again, its not freeloading when you are paying for it like everyone else idiot. and for the record, I moved to the states not because i wanted the best education, but because my father was transferred here for his job. loser.
38. bob | April 23rd, 2008 at 3:05 pm
SAR,
you smell like pee.
39. Some Assembly Required | April 23rd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Bobby Boy Blue….What’s the matter, now that I spelled it out for you, you’ve got nothing?!?!?!
Just to let you know, I hold duel citizenship to Canada and the US. For my money, hockey’s much better then football, less steroid use anyway. I guess that explains why you have no balls. Cheers mate.
40. RC | April 23rd, 2008 at 4:01 pm
“you know that all the men and women enlisted in your military are freedom loving because you are american?????”
And you know they are not because you aren’t American???? I’d say I know more than you about our military, as I served 4 years.
Law school? Your broken english seems to imply otherwise but I wish you the best delivering mail to your colleagues in London.
Your father came here for a job and most likely also so his son/daughter could receive the best education.
loser….
41. sam | April 23rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
RC,
Im the loser, what do you do for a living….”paper or plastic” comes to mind.
Also, i did my undergrad at Georgia Tech, and my law degree from Emory. I graduated last year and im working for Baker Botts in Houston tx.
you served 4 years in the military….hahaha..great accomplishment, if i were you, i would not tell that to anyone, its not an accomplishment at all.
And lastlt, my english is nothing near broken, you just are jealous because I am more succesful than you ever will be in your own country.
And my father solely came here because they transferred him. we were all happy to live in Paris and continue our lives. Don’t assume things idiot.
Loser….
42. Plantation Owner | April 23rd, 2008 at 4:20 pm
sami,
You don’t stop assuming things about people without knowing jack shit…hahaha…what a typical ignorant french-iranian loser!
43. sam | April 23rd, 2008 at 4:28 pm
PO,
im surprised you even know how to spell.
44. Plantation Owner | April 23rd, 2008 at 4:36 pm
sami,
I surprised you even know how to breathe!
Now…breathe in….breathe out….breathe in….breathe out ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
putz.
45. InDaVa | April 23rd, 2008 at 4:43 pm
“Also, i did my undergrad at Georgia Tech, and my law degree from Emory. I graduated last year and im working for Baker Botts in Houston tx.”
Sure you are….
46. FmrMarine | April 23rd, 2008 at 8:51 pm
sami
>>>>Off course i have no loyalty to this c ountry. I used this country to get my undergraduate, and JD/MBA degrees. I make a great living and have a wonderful life, but i would love to see this coutnry burn for all the crimes it has committed.
Sue me, who cares what you say or think Kahn, your an old demented sorry man.<<<<
Typical jihad muslem POS.
You wouldnt last 30 seconds up against Marines.
Your dirty coward islaminists are brave cutting the throats of tied up blindfolded men, and women, or putting bombs on trains.
Id be glad to send you and your minions to meet allah and the 79 virgins.
47. sam | April 23rd, 2008 at 9:08 pm
FmrMarine…
hahahahahahahahaha….are those the same marines that have been struggling to keep baghdad safe the past 6 years?? Are these the same marines that cut and run in vietnam???
sure idiot, im sure your mercenary marines can fight the good fight…hahahahaha….what a loser.
Talk about cowards, i can’t wait for the day you cut and run and leave iraq like the (expletive deleted) you are.
and InDava, you don’t have to believe me, but its the truth. don’t be jealous that I am doing better in YOUR country, and that I took advantage of opportunities you couldn’t. I will continue to make my money, and work, and hate your silly country.
48. Danish Artist | April 23rd, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Yeah sammie, if it was not for this country that you want to see burn you would be picking camel (expletive deleted) from between your toes!
Putz.
49. sam | April 23rd, 2008 at 9:43 pm
nice comeback danish, you really address the issue there..wow, you really make a great comeback, continue living under that rock, sooner or later someone will pick it up and expose you to the real world.
putz.
50. Danish Artist | April 23rd, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Wow, sammie, can’t come back with something original?
In each of your posts, you address the issue each time….well, if the issue is asshole rag-he…er french liberals well the that would indeed be true!
I just love the way libs “debate”!
51. Kahn | April 24th, 2008 at 2:35 am
See, I remember sam posting from Georgia tech - thats why I thought he was student here.
What a nasty little turd that guy is.
And SAR agrees with him. SAR, Sam would love to see you burn, wake up.
52. Some Assembly Required | April 24th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Kahn, this is the last time I will say this…
I agree that US policies (specifically foreign) are largely the reason why there is so much resentment towards the US. Nothing more, nothing less. sams comments I see as no more extreme then fmrmarines, freedom1 or jeremiahs with regards to muslims and the middle east. Only difference being there directed at America. I hate to break it to you bud, but telling these people to go f$%@ themselves will only provoke them. Understanding is the only way to solve this problem without completely crippling America IMHO. Unless you want a nuclear war.
53. bob | April 24th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Hey there, How exactly did you get this dual citizenship? Did it come from a cereal box? Because they don’t count…..I bet your just from some small place in Canada that isn’t even on the map, I’d say your from Newphodline or some thing. Ya’ll should wash your igloos…….
54. Some Assembly Required | April 24th, 2008 at 7:57 am
Morning bob. We don’t need to wash our igloos, they’re self-cleaning (melt every summer). It’s great, we also send our ederly out on ice flows when they become a liability. Hell of a social security program. Any more stereotypes you want to address?
55. bob | April 24th, 2008 at 8:12 am
SAR…..He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city. Proverbs 16:32…..need id say more…..what is your position on the war?……………….Long live Bush….Are you really from Canada? How do your igloos “selfwash”. I didn’t realize your technology was so far. We live in houses here, they are mainly constructed of wood and concrete.
56. Some Assembly Required | April 24th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Afghanistan - For
Iraq - Against
I’m living in Canada right now. The weather can be a bit much at times. When people here are not busy clubbing baby seals they are quite the inventive bunch. And they make some mighty fine beer.
‘Newphodline’ did you mean Newfoundland? Ever been?
He that pee in the wind, surely will pee on himself.
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