Open Thread: Pennsylvania Primary
April 22nd, 2008 at 09:20am Mark Noonan
If Hillary wins by less than 10 percentage points, will the pressure to quit become overwhelming?
If Obama loses by more than 10 percentage points, will his claim of inevitibility weaken beyond recall?
Will an Obama loss in Pennsylvania mean that Michelle Obama needs to hit more gay bars with Chelsea?
What are your answers to these burning questions?
UPDATE: Memo from Obama’s camp - to paraphrase; “nothing to see here people, just move along”
UPDATE, II: Real Clear Politics is saying that Bill Clinton will claim a lead in the popular vote for Hillary tomorrow…this is if, apparently, one includes Michigan and Florida.
Can you say “nasty floor fight at the convention”, boys and girls?
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats, Open Thread
66 Comments
1. Joe | April 22nd, 2008 at 9:54 am
I think it will be close, but Clinton wins narrowly. The only reason she wins is because of all the Repubs that are switching party affiliation to screw up the Dem primary. If not for that, then I would say Obama wins by 2-3 points. Instead, Clinton wins by 2-3 points.
I also think Clinton will drop out of the race before she loses North Carolina by 12 points. She will walk away on a high note with a PA win… barely.
One more…. the Dems will be fully and completly behind Obama by mid-May giving them plenty of time to focus on defeating the GOP same old same old.
2. Bigfoot | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:04 am
I also think Clinton will drop out of the race before she loses North Carolina by 12 points.
I don’t see that happening. Hillary is just too stubborn, and wants the presidency way too much to quit. I believe that she will stick it out until the bitter end at the convention.
3. Mr.OZ | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:39 am
I think Obama will win by a small percentage.
4. dickvee | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:40 am
To predict Clinton only wins by 2 is really going out on a limb. She’s a liar, but most of us hate commie’s and non-bowlers more!
5. Some Assembly Required | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:43 am
Bigfoot, she may want to stick it out, but I think if Obama loses Pen. by less then 10 and then wins NC by more then 10 the super delegates will not give her a choice. They’ll side with Obama for party unity if nothing else. Dems will rally around Obama, regardless of what they previously said where even the possibility of another bush like adminstration will motivate them into doing so.
6. Rich | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:52 am
Clinton by thirteen. She almost always gets the late breaking votes and operation chaos (which I still think I came up with the idea first, I wonder if Rush reads this blog?) is going to give her two to three points. The demographics all go her way. The only wild card is the youth vote and new voter turnout.
Oh and I almost forgot, Clinton is using street money and Obama is not. Of course just because someone gives you a sandwhich and takes you to the polls doesn’t mean you have to vote for who they say to vote for.
Joe- you are really going against all the polls for the past two months? I though you trusted polling so much?
7. Joe | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:54 am
dickvee: She’s a liar, but most of us hate commie’s and non-bowlers more!
Should that read:
She’s a liar, but most of us hate commie’s and non-bowlers and non-flag pin wearers more!
Just breathe and concentrate on what matters man.
8. Joe | April 22nd, 2008 at 11:03 am
Rich, when did I say that polling was to be so trusted? I think you have me mixed up with someone else.
The last polls I saw by the way had Clinton by 7. I am guessing the youth vote and the new voters make that closer. It is the Repubs that give Clinton the victory. Kind of a weasily way of doing things for the Repubs, but hey… its not illegal, so no complaints.
9. Rich | April 22nd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Woops I forgot the Wilder effect too (ie. people don’t vote for a minority but when polled say they will to avoid looking racist).
10. Joe | April 22nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Woops I forgot the Wilder effect too (ie. people don’t vote for a minority but when polled say they will to avoid looking racist).
That only comes into play if the poll question is…
“Are you going to vote for the white woman or the black man?”
Other than that, I don’t think your “Wilder effect” comes into play now-a-days. 30 years ago maybe. Not so much any more.
11. Rich | April 22nd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Really Joe? Not even one or two points?
12. Joe | April 22nd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I’ll give you maybe a point. But this is not going to be a 5-10 point difference. This isn’t 1970.
13. Sam | April 22nd, 2008 at 1:13 pm
‘Just breathe and concentrate on whats important man’.
This is so rich! Eight years of a liar in the white house gutting the justice department to fill it up with federalist society law students to be the presidents (and vice’s) personal defense team, and y’all still want to collectively keep a bad bowler out of the white house?
Does McCain bowl well? He’d better, he doesn’t wear a flag pin, but he is a very talented liar.
It takes only eight years of GoP ideology in charge to ruin a democracy, but it takes twelve to complately kill it.
(R)wins elections on ideology but govern, yes govern ( remember that word?) liberally.
14. Howie | April 22nd, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Deal or No Deal?
15. Rich | April 22nd, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Hey Sam, what country are you from again? Just curious, and it would give us some perspective on where your comments are coming from.
16. Nate | April 22nd, 2008 at 2:09 pm
can’t imagine billary dropping out at all. billary will be working towards the convention and will attempt all forms of coercion to get the idiotic super delegates to support her and upset the regular delegates and popular vote.
17. Eric T | April 22nd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Will an Obama loss in Pennsylvania mean that Michelle Obama needs to hit more gay bars with Chelsea?
They have the Larry Sinclair issue, if the they wanna prove there admistration could be even gayer than Hillary’s.
If McCain was to campaign in bars. OK!
Strip Clubs… Cool!
Gay Bars… No Way, I’m not voting for him.
I’m a Christian Man, Church teachings says, it is wrong and it is an Unholy abomination!
That it is Blashphemey! Definately not family values. They tend to get raw and descriptive. I don’t care what people do In there bedroom. BUT, i DON’T WANNA HEAR ABOUT, SEE IT, SMELL IT, KNOW ANY DETAILS ABOUT IT.
18. OhioOrrin | April 22nd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I just voted 4 hill…
…oh wait, that was in Ohio.
19. Joe | April 22nd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Eric T, he cheated on and divorced his first wife. Wouldn’t the church frown upon that as they do upon gays?
Last I heard that not coveting thy neighbors wife was one of the commandments. Enjoying the company of the same sex wasn’t.
Just askin’.
20. Eric T | April 22nd, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Joe
Lesbians is just a good thing times two. I see where Solomon had thousands of wifes, and they probably had to take care of each other when he was busy. But Gay men, there is no excuse. If You promote that kind lifestyle and guys will start leaving their wifes and families.
A bunch of women and kids with nobody taking care of them.
21. Eric T | April 22nd, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Joe
I almost like the democrat plan for health care. I go to work. pay abunch of money for health insurance, My wife goes to the doctor I gotta pay even more for co-pays, ect…
If I stop working my wife don’t have insurance, health care, food, a roof over her head. I can’t afford to have kids, but if I did I would have to take care of them as well.
If you promote a gayer society, think of how many people will walk away from responsiblity and taking care of their family.
22. OperationChaos | April 22nd, 2008 at 5:30 pm
I think this is great–Hillary expected to waltz right into the WH, and she’s on the verge of being yesterday’s news. I love it!
McCain vs. Obama–I’ll be watching it on the BBC…
23. Eric T | April 22nd, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Think about it Joe, They tell you, if you commit a crime your going to jail, getting locked up with a bunch of gay men, that is something that is suppose to deter people from wanting to go to jail.
Now if you encourage everyone to be gay. Everyone will want to go to jail to pick up guys. It won’t be punishment it will be fun. Nobody will want to work.
24. js | April 22nd, 2008 at 9:21 pm
i understand 16k republicans voted for hillary…wtg guys…keep the hag in the bag…thats strategy!!
25. congressive | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Who knew the good librul folks of Pennsylvania were hoping for nucular war with Iran?
Ron Paul looks like he’s getting 16% so far. Funny, no one taking bets on the election is putting any money on a McCain/Paul ticket…
26. Sam | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:25 pm
So, I suppose tomorrow y’all will be glued to your radios listening to the fat windbag egomaniac taking credit for Hillary’s PA victory.
You don’t consider perhaps that it is far more plausable not to mention believable that reasonable american citizens switched parties in large numbers because of the disasterous past eight years led by an immature Republican ideologue and a power hungry corporatist whose shovelling your tax dollars hand over fist into his pockets. He thanks you kindly as he leaves the mess and heads for his sand castle over in dubai built with your hard earned money.
If you’d look just a teeny bit outside your comfort zones, you’d see that the, OUR, Constitution is being shredded. That piece of paper IS America.
27. Rich | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Hey Sam, what country are you from?
28. neocon | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:30 pm
This is Howard Deans worst nightmare. Hillary with renewed enthusiasm.
Sit back. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
29. neocon | April 22nd, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Sam’s from the land of Drama; Queen
30. SteaM | April 22nd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Clinton will not win the nomination. She doesn’t have as many delegates as Obama. He has more of the popular vote than she does.
When the race comes down to McCain versus Obama things will really get interesting.
McCain has had it too easy for too long. He’s no angel… and a little too much like Bush. Some would say a lot too much like Bush. He is also a Republican. People do not generally like those right now.
Obama ‘08
31. Dennis | April 22nd, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Sam: “If you’d look just a teeny bit outside your comfort zones, you’d see that the, OUR, Constitution is being shredded. That piece of paper IS America.”
Pretty much says it all.
32. Dennis | April 22nd, 2008 at 11:28 pm
…No matter which “sam” it was…
33. Kahn | April 22nd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
A different way to look at it:
If you count Florida and Michigan, Clinton is ahead in the popular vote. Obama still leads in delegates. Though he does not have enough earned and pledged delegates to win.
So Democrats - overturn the popular vote? Say yes, and forever shut up about 2000.
34. gaijin | April 23rd, 2008 at 12:00 am
Kahn,
Counting Michigan and Florida? Obama’s name wasn’t even on the ballot. Your comparion to 2000 doesn’t make any sense. But hey, thanks for playing.
Peace, Gaijin
35. gaijin | April 23rd, 2008 at 12:01 am
On the ballot in Michigan, I meant to say. He was on the ballot, but didn’t campaign in Florida,
36. Mark Noonan | April 23rd, 2008 at 12:32 am
So, Hillary won it by 10 - pretty substantial, and more evidence of Obama’s weakness in the States a Democrat must win in order to be elected President.
My prediction is, however, that Obama will win the nomination. As to how he’ll do in the fall - well, some are saying that a Democratic victory is dead-certain (Beckel - a smart man - recently wrote that he expects a crushing GOP defeat this fall)…and, certainly, with an unpopular GOP incumbant, economic anxiety and an unpopular war, it would seem that whomever emerges as the Democratic nominee will have the inside track….and yet, with all that, the early polling shows a dead heat, at best, between McCain and HillBama…and in some vital States, McCain is ahead of both.
Waaaay early, but I’m unconvinced - at this point - of a crushing, blowout Democratic victory…
37. Freedom1 | April 23rd, 2008 at 1:42 am
McCain is such a liberal Republican. A Rino. I think that’s why he’s doing so well right now in a year that should favor the Democrats.
38. Mark Noonan | April 23rd, 2008 at 2:25 am
Freedom,
I wouldn’t go as far as calling him a RINO - We’ve got Hagel and Specter ably filling that roll (and that should be kept in mind by McCain should he win - he’ll get no help from either of them, when the chips are down). He’s certainly not a “movement” conservative but, then again, I’m not so much either - I was one of the two or three people who actually agreed with the Bush/McCain comprenhensive immigration reform, after all.
As for what drives McCain, I can’t say - he’s clearly a very able and very intelligent man, but he does have his blind spots…but, even there, I’d say his blind spots are created by an overly generous spirit…while he might shout about his opponents, I think that deep down he really loves them all, and only wishes they’d go along with him on the grand adventure of life.
I think that it is this basic love of his fellow man - so clearly lacking in his Democratic opponents - which makes people respond positively to McCain, even if they are infuriated at times (as I am) by this or that McCain action. I can say with certainty that when I treat my fellow men and women with love, their response is overwhelmingly positive, even when its clear that I’m telling them something they don’t want to know, and don’t want to agree with.
Who will win in November? Quite honestly, I don’t know - and even if I were offered the ability to see the future, I’d not want to know. I want to fight in this battle of ideas; this battle for the very soul of the United States of America. Certainly, McCain isn’t 100% conservative, but under his banner we just might be able to unite the entire non-left in the United States, and crush the life out of leftism for a generation or two, thus allowing us time to reform the United States and repair some of the damage leftwing ideology has inflicted upon the United States.
39. Freedom1 | April 23rd, 2008 at 2:31 am
It’s Time To Summarize Obama In One Word: Fraud by Herb Denenberg, The Philadelphia Bulletin
40. Freedom1 | April 23rd, 2008 at 2:47 am
“…this battle for the very soul of the United States of America.” - Mark Noonan
Indeed.
During the early primary season I prayed to God to grant to the American people the wisdom to elect a good, patriotic Christian warrior as President of the United States. Lo and behold, John McCain - a decent Christian man and warrior (ex-military) turned out to be the Republican nominee.
John McCain is a far, far better candidate than either Obama or Hillary (both socialists/communists) and a genuine American patriot (unlike Obama or Hillary). McCain would make a much better President, one who would keep us on offense against the Islamists who are trying to destroy us; and one who would set a moral, decent course as far as America’s social society is concerned. God. Hope. Life. (To borrow a phrase from Pope Benedict XVI)
It is imperative to America’s future that we elect John McCain to be President of the United States.
41. OperationChaos | April 23rd, 2008 at 5:22 am
Could any of you kooks who claim our Constitution is being shredded cite some examples how? One might claim that BOTH parties have been shredding it for decades. I’ve read it a number of times, and still haven’t found “separation of church and state” anywhere.
Why don’t you kooks lay off the talking points and debate the issues? Your party has none, and it hides its true agenda from the mainstream…
42. OperationChaos | April 23rd, 2008 at 5:40 am
So, I suppose tomorrow y’all will be glued to your radios listening to the fat windbag egomaniac taking credit for Hillary’s PA victory.
Better that, Sammie-Jo, than reading your meaningless tripe. Maybe El Rushbo will discuss “shredding the Constitution;” I’m sure in your alternate universe, he is…
43. phnx | April 23rd, 2008 at 7:51 am
Number of republicans switching affiliation to Dem: 200,000
Hillary’s margin of victory: 235,000
Coincidence? I think not. Without operation Chaos, Hillary would have narrowly defeated Obama, and there would have been calls for her to quit the race.
The 10 point margin, thanks to Operation Chaos, has re-energized Hillary, her campaign, and her supporters.
This makes it all the more difficult for the Dme leadership.
The soap opera continues…thanks to Rush and all of the soldiers in Operation Chaos.
Doesn’t this just piss off all you leftists??? How do you like a taste of your own medicine?
44. Some Assembly Required | April 23rd, 2008 at 7:58 am
Phnx, the super delegates and dem party are apprised to the same information. I think Obama will be the dem nominee. If he is not it could very well ruin the dem party. But then thats what you guys want is it not? Regardless if they can do a better job of running the country. They certainly can’t do much worse then the current administration.
45. Joe | April 23rd, 2008 at 8:38 am
Eric T, regarding your posts, 20,21 & 23.
Are you seriously saying that if a “gay lifestyle” is promoted, then guys will be leaving their wives and children?????
That is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. I am serious.
If You promote that kind lifestyle and guys will start leaving their wifes and families.
A bunch of women and kids with nobody taking care of them
—
If you promote a gayer society, think of how many people will walk away from responsiblity and taking care of their family
—
Now if you encourage everyone to be gay. Everyone will want to go to jail to pick up guys. It won’t be punishment it will be fun. Nobody will want to work
—
I don’t even know how to reply to this, but it is pretty damn foolish.
Are you that much in question of your own masculinity that just the sight of one gay person might “turn you gay”?
46. Joe | April 23rd, 2008 at 11:18 am
By the way Eric T… according to your post #20, Lesbians are ok, but gays are not? Do I have that correct?
Just want to be sure I understand your crazy thinking.
47. Diana Powe | April 23rd, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Senator Clinton explicitly stated and Senator Obama suggested that we might use nuclear weapons against Iran if Iran were to use a nuclear weapon against Israel. Aside from the fact that Israel is a sovereign nation with its own nuclear forces, they also feel free to conduct military espionage against us:
But that’s okay if they steal secrets from us, because they’re our friends.
48. Eric T | April 23rd, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Joe-
As for my masculinity, I’am hopelessly addicted to vaginal skin.
The Bible says, a Man shall not lay down with another man. It doesn’t really address lesbians.
Some bibles use the term homosexuality some say men laying down with each other.
49. Joe | April 23rd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Eric T, I’m glad you responded before I left for lunch…
being against gays is all well and good. no body ever said you have to like it.
My point was that you are claiming that if “gayness” is accepted, then guys will be leaving their wives and children in droves to go be with other men.
So I guess you must think that most men are not so “hopelessly addicted to vaginal skin” as you are and since it is accepted, they will run out and be gay. THAT is what I find foolish.
You can be a gay-hater all you want, but do it for valid reasons. not because guys will leave their families.
Later.
50. Diana Powe | April 23rd, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Meanwhile, the tanking of the Republican brand continues apace as a Democrat outpolled the GOP candidate in Mississippi’s First Congressional District special election yesterday. In a district that went 62-37 for President Bush over Senator Kerry in 2004, Democratic candidate Travis Childers, in a six-way race, got 49% of the vote to the Republican, Greg Davis’, 46%. Since he didn’t get at least 50% of the vote, Childers and Davis will participate in a run-off to see who gets to be the incumbent in November.
After losing Dennis Hastert’s seat to Democrats, the NRCC poured $300,000 into a special election in a solidly red district and now has to decide if they want to spend more. The question in November isn’t whether the Democratic Party will increase its numbers in Congress, but by how much.
51. Eric T | April 23rd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Joe -
A few months back you mentioned you were married. So unless your bi or into swinging and alternative lifestyles, I’m assuming your straight.
At what point do you draw the line between right and wrong?
If you turn on the T.V and every show has two guys french kissing, at that point?
Two guys rolling around in bed on every show, here?
When it starts getting raw and jokes on radio and T.V are about some guy pulling out his meat and having a piece corn or a lima bean on his wand, and then he flicks it off and it sticks to the wall.
At what point would you say society has become (too gay).
52. Some Assembly Required | April 23rd, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Eric… man I think you have it backwards. Just imagine, all those men flocking to each other leaving all those women vulnerable and desperate. Menage a tois (with two women) would be like coffee in the morning. It’d be like heaven for heterosexual men. I mean who would need 72 virgins in the after life when you could have two or three women at a time everyday, if the majority of men are gay that is. Ok, I’m leaving it at that before my imagination gets too carried away… Why would you be against this?
53. Eric T | April 23rd, 2008 at 6:08 pm
SAR-
You make a good point for a single guy looking to get as much trim as possible. But for a family man, You go back into the first few democrat debates and you hear Hillary and Obama talking about how they have no problem with young 2nd grade kids reading “Two Princes” a story with boys kisssing each other.
The libs obviously would have no problem with 2nd grade boys playing with each others wieners out on recess, but I think there is a lot of Americans that disagree with the libs and don’t want their kids coming home from school watching guys prancing around in womens clothes on T.V and listening to everybody talking about their gayness. Maybe I’m just too old fashion, but kids minds are impressionable.
54. phnx | April 23rd, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Trying to deflect the discussion again Diana?
But since you mentioned it, Kadish is probably another leftist like the Rosenbergs, or Jonathan Pollard, now serving a life sentance. Clinton considered a pardon for Pollard, but was disuaded by the CIA and Pentagon. It was either that or the fact that he didn’t have enough money, like Marc Rich, another leftist spy and criminal, who Clinton did pardon.
http://www.rense.com/general42/buddy.htm
55. Some Assembly Required | April 23rd, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Eric, your right, a family man would find himself in a load of hot water taking my advice there. But, as a single man I guess I can only dream of such a reality.
I see no problem with kids reading about two princes, especially because when they come it’s on t.v. Teaching them in school makes them better able to accept people for there differences. It in no way forces them to be different. Much like kids learning about Hitler going up through school, but how many kids turn out like him?
I will agree that Grade 2 is a bit to young to be introducing them to social problems. I’d say bump it to at least grade 6 or 7 when there starting to realize girls don’t have coodies.
I also think there should be a class created specifically for t.v. In it kids would be shown various prime-time shows and discuss them with there teachers and other students. I think this class would help show the huge difference between t.v. and reality.
56. Diana Powe | April 23rd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
phnx,
What’s the matter? Are you a little touchy about the fact that our buddies, the Israeli government, conduct military espionage against us? Can’t think of anything to say other than to say it must be something “lefty”. Pretty weak tea.
57. phnx | April 23rd, 2008 at 9:23 pm
DP are you denying that these spies were leftists? Spying in the name of some altruism is a time honored leftists tradition, as is treason.
Pardoning spies and terrorists is also a time honored leftists tradition.
58. Some Assembly Required | April 23rd, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Funny, outing covert CIA agents is a Right Wing tradition…
But thanks for the laugh tonight.
59. Eric T | April 23rd, 2008 at 9:35 pm
SAR-
I think your idea for a class for kids, on what they see on t.v is a good idea. Violent Action movies/ gangster rap ect.. Is not reality, kids need to understand, maybe see the process of how movies are made and know they are for entertainment.
As for this
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298307,00.html
This could be the best McCain ad yet. It could go something like this.
Most people would be appauled at the thought of indoctrinating 2nd graders with homosexual propaganda. But not these two. ( Then it shows a clip from the debate with Hillary and Obama approving the distribution of the material). Then the ad ends by saying, The democrats are just too liberal to trust your kids with.
60. Diana Powe | April 23rd, 2008 at 10:23 pm
phnx,
So, if the Americans involved are “leftists” (however you expansively and self-servingly define it), then that means you’re totally okay with the government of Israel engaging in military espionage against the United States. Hey, just say so.
Maybe that means you’re a “leftist”…
61. FmrMarine | April 23rd, 2008 at 10:38 pm
dp
>>>>then that means you’re totally okay with the government of Israel engaging in military espionage against the United States.<<<
Prove this statement.
It seems to me we GIVE them everything they want……..much like klintoon and the COMMIE = RED chinese army.
62. FmrMarine | April 23rd, 2008 at 10:43 pm
sar
>>>Funny, outing covert CIA agents is a Right Wing tradition…<<<
Yeah we didnt know that was the “covert” plame on the cover of time….she was disguised of course.
Oh yes
showing up at the CIA building at LANGLY - EVERY DAY with that sticker on her bumper sure had the world fooled.
nice try, now go back to your fantasy world.of BDS !
63. Diana Powe | April 23rd, 2008 at 10:44 pm
FmrMarine,
Well, as one example, you may read the letter on Donald Rumsfeld’s letterhead for yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rumsfeld_letter_to_Clinton_re_Pollard.jpg
64. Diana Powe | April 23rd, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Pollard’s Israeli handler is alleged to be Ben-Ami Kadish’s handler as well. However, it’s all good if they conduct espionage against us. They’re our friends.
65. Kahn | April 24th, 2008 at 2:30 am
gaijin, actually - it was on the ballot in Florida. But whatever. He CHOSE not to campaign and to not be on the ballot (in Michigan). He does not have enough delegates. It’s your party, disenfranchise two states if you want to. Fine with me.
But more people have voted for Hillary than have voted for Obama and you are willing to ignore that.
Just to be clear.
66. phnx | April 24th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
DP Both spies caught, indicted and one sent to prison, the other soon to be, under Republican administrations.
On the otherhand, Clinton pardons a bigger fish (spy) for money. So its only leftists who seem to be OK with our allies spying on us.
If you have proof to the contrary present it. Otherwise you blowing smoke and obfuscating once again…leftist.