Sunday Morning Open Thread
April 27th, 2008 at 09:19am Mark Noonan
Some things to think about:
Does a Hillary win in Indiana have any real effect on the race, or is the Democratic contest pretty much “done” as far as primaries go, and we’re all just waiting to see how a nominee is actually chosen?
Given Iran’s clear violations of Iraqi sovereignty and Iran’s responsibility for the deaths of American soldiers in Iraq, should we do anything in 2008, or should we leave any action to the next President?
Would a McCain/Obama battle pretty much alienate the base of both the Democrats and Republicans, thus leading to a surprising low turnout election?
Have at it on these subjects, or anything else you can think of.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats, Republicans, War on Terror


44 Comments
1. js | April 27th, 2008 at 9:35 am
82% of americans think Iran is still working on a nuke program.
2. js | April 27th, 2008 at 9:36 am
HIllarys revenge….refusing to drop out.
3. neocon | April 27th, 2008 at 9:41 am
61% of Iranians want to wear blue jeans and drive chevrolets.
4. LNC | April 27th, 2008 at 10:29 am
The remaining primaries won’t give her enough delegates to surpass Obama, but if she continues to win in the remaining states, she will close the gap a bit, which will make her arguments to the superdelegates carry more weight.
Also, if she wins the remaining contests, she could make the case that Obama has lost his momentum/charm/whatever given recent circumstances, and if those things had been known in the beginning, he wouldn’t have come anywhere close to where he is now.
5. Canadian Observer | April 27th, 2008 at 10:57 am
3. neocon | April 27th, 2008 at 9:41 am
61% of Iranians want to wear blue jeans and drive chevrolets.
——————————-
I have learned from Iranian friends who have just returned from their birthplace that you might be right, Neocon.
However, I don’t think the innocent citizens of Iran would welcome the death and destruction that the Iraqi people have suffered and continue to suffer since the
American ‘liberation’.
6. LiberalNitemare | April 27th, 2008 at 11:28 am
I like the way CO uses scare qoutes around the word “liberation”. Its a nice way to seem like your saying ’something’, while actually saying nothing at all.
I wish more liberals would adopt it.
Back to the point, do you think that since Iran has helped to ‘kill american soldiers’ and ‘interfered with the sovereignty of Iraq’, do you think that any sort of action is warrented?
Personally, I believe that in the case of Iran the best possible resolution is to make Iraq the most succesful democracy that it can be.
7. Iran » Sunday Morni&hellip | April 27th, 2008 at 11:33 am
[...] Rassembler à Gauche 34 (Hérault) wrote an interesting post today on Sunday Morning Open ThreadHere’s a quick excerptDoes a Hillary win in Indiana have any real effect on the race, or is the Democratic contest pretty much “done” as far as primaries go, and [...]
8. Obama » Sunday Morn&hellip | April 27th, 2008 at 11:34 am
[...] ExtremeCentre.org: Blog Politique Francophone pour les Libertés Fondamentales et Contre… wrote an interesting post today on Sunday Morning Open ThreadHere’s a quick excerptWould a McCain/Obama battle pretty much alienate the base of both the Democrats and Republicans, thus leading to a surprising low turnout… [...]
9. bagni | April 27th, 2008 at 11:38 am
markran
the light speed junkies have said it before and will say it one more time
don’t attack iran
first…it will destroy the u.s. economy
second…why not just make a lower cost commitment and do a weekly airdrop of 50,000 plasma screen tv’s, cellphones, crackberries, wii’s, laptops, etc. for three straight years
make all these devices work for free
and beam in everything from 3’s company to mtv to fox news
you’ll get your democracy after that
but is america patient enough?
come to think of it…there’s no way…..
10. neocon | April 27th, 2008 at 11:43 am
CO never has anything of substance to say. Only contrary viewpoints that highlight his disdain for anything American. He is highly predictable.
You would think that after centuries of civilization, ME countries would be leaps and bounds ahead of the young US. But, due to rife tyrannical corruption and incompetence, they continue to live in abject poverty and oppression. And these are the countries our resident liberals champion. Speaks volumes about their self respect and confidence. Doesn’t it?
11. Diana Powe | April 27th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
On another thread, Mark made the claim that there is “no shared sense of American values in the Democratic party.” As I said there, before it was deleted as not being deemed sufficiently on-topic in answering his own evidence-free assertion, that there are any number of what we can only assume are Republican values because they are the behavior of the Republican President, his administration and many Republicans in Congress. Values such as:
- Invading and occupying countries that have not attacked the United States
- Sanctioning and choreographing the use of torture at the highest levels of the Executive Branch
- Lying to Congress
- Undermining the respect for the rule of law in the United States by turning the Justice Department into a political arm of the White House
- Sending innocent persons to other countries knowing they will be tortured
- Condoning a President who uses what used to be the king-like authority (prior to the Magna Carta) of imprisoning American citizens incommunicado, without charges and without access to the legal system
- Lying to the American public about conducting surveillance on their electronic communications without the legally-required warrants
- Voting against providing health care to children
- Sending American soldiers into harm’s way and then giving them short-shrift on their return in their housing, medical care and educational benefits
Those are some of the apparently “shared American values” that most Republicans think are just fine (as evidenced by actual conduct rather than the mouthing of words) and which no decent Democrat would want to have anything to do with.
12. Diana Powe | April 27th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
From the angry father of an 82nd Airborne Division soldier, some ugly, ugly truth about how a Republican Administration actually conducts itself while saying that they support the troops.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46vYZFU1Dew
13. js | April 27th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
tell us something DP….IRL…Are you Cindy Sheehan?…for sure….the basic radicalization of everything is there….the omission of facts…the perversion of the truth…the delusion of a conspiracy against you….did anyone else notice this?
14. neocon | April 27th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Diana,
Just to conter your first three:
1. Somalia, Sudan and Kosovo
2. Clinton initiated the practice of rendition
3. Nearly everyone in the Clinton admin lied about something at some point
when you first started posting here you had a slight modicum of objectivity, you have spiraled downwards since. Your masters must be proud
15. Diana Powe | April 27th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
neocon,
Did I write a defense of any military actions in Somalia, Sudan or Kosovo? No.
Did I write a defense of rendition under any administration? No.
Did I write a defense of lying to Congress by any official of any administration at any time? No.
Regardless of your mindless redirect to “blah-blah Clinton blah-blah”, if conduct is illegal or immoral it’s illegal or immoral for everyone. I thought Republicans supposedly believed in individual responsibility. I guess not. Thanks for the information, “It’s okay for Republicans to commit illegal and immoral acts as long as we can say a Democrat did once, too.”
16. Bill Eischeidt | April 27th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
And Diana the rules applying to everyone is what the political right wing in your country find fault with.
Let’s not be satisfied with going back to Clinton let’s look at the failings of Reagan.
El Salvador and Nicaragua
Arms for hostages–Iran/Contra
Nearly everyone in the reagan administration lied to Congress and the right wing calls them heores.
Sandy Berger and Oliver North should both be in Guantanamo Bay sharing a cell. That’s where I’m drawing the line at equal justice.
17. neocon | April 27th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Diana,
You missed the point entirely. You claimed in post #11 that “no decent democrat would subscribe to such egregious values”, I pointed out three of such “shared values” of Bill Clinton, the last Democrat standard bearer.
So when did the DNC adopt these new, higher standard shared values? And are they stand alone values or simply those that are contrary to the GOP?
18. neocon | April 27th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Bill,
What fine country are you from sir?
19. Bill Eischeidt | April 27th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Born in New Mexico now an ex pat on Isle of Man.
20. Bill Burnett | April 27th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
View on politics like religious beliefs become rigid in the brain. This means that the politics of ‘issues’ may be less significant than which party you belong to, no matter how the news media presents things. I have a tiny three question survey about the rigidity of beliefs open at;
http://www.wburnettllc.com/ThoughtExperiment.htm please contribute.
21. Christian Wright | April 27th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Republicans are not a political party, they are a criminal enterprise. The WOT is just a money laundering scheme to raid the treasury and award other Republican with no-bid cost-plus contracts.
The failure of the Bush Administration to help the victims of Katrina was passive genocide.
The sub-prime mortgage lending fiasco could have been stopped by Greenspan and Bush years ago, they received plenty of warning, and prevented individual states from protecting their citizens from predatory lending.
The list of crimes goes on.
22. Diana Powe | April 27th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
neocon,
Mark demonstrated his hatred of the Democratic Party by making the sweeping statement there is “no shared sense of American values in the Democratic party”. By extension, Republicans have a “shared sense of American values”. How do you tell what people value? By what they do. I have provided examples of what some Republicans have done since January 20, 2001 and what other Republicans have either turned a blind eye to or actively supported. Ergo, those are some things that the Republican Party must think are American values. I disagree and further assert that no decent Democrat (or decent Republican) would defend these acts.
23. Diana Powe | April 27th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
neocon,
If your question is whether or not there are or have been rogues and villains in the Democratic Party, the answer, obviously, is “yes” just as there are rogues and villains in the Republican Party. If a Democrat is corrupt or venal then we need to run them off. However, many of the acts I cited are, as John Dean’s book title puts it, “worse than Watergate.”
24. Danish Artist | April 27th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
C Wright,
Who were the “victims” of Katrina and passive genocide?
I await you unintelligent and uniformed answer.
25. Bill Eischeidt | April 27th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Then Danish Artist I think you shouldn’t get an answer since you’ve passed judgment already.
26. Danish Artist | April 27th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Butt out Bill.
With words like “passive genocide”, it shows that reality does not match his (and most likely your) liberal fantasy.
PLUS, I WAS THERE, I KNOW PEOPLE WHO WERE IN AREAS HARDER HIT THAN NEW ORLEANS.
27. Christian Wright | April 27th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Danish Artist
Republican knew the poor in New Orleans voted in a Democratic block, so they let them drown. Then they made a video to make fun of them.
Here is a video by a conservative group that explains exactly who the victims of Katrina are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi73GfqLjbQ
Please not the complete lack of sympathy.
28. Timothy Horrigan | April 27th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Although we haven’t heard much about this of late, Iran’s army is officially still considered a “terrorist oragnization” (by us Americans… and does it matter what anyone else calls them? Of course not!) This is more than just a derogatory label… it affects the rules of engagement on Iraq. If for whatever reason, our forces bump up against some other neighboring power’s forces, we are supposed to respect the other nation’s sovereignty by leaving when asked by not attacking unless we are attacked first. But if our forces encounter terrorists in the field, we can just go ahead and attack them. That means that Iran’s army isn’t (as far as we are allowed) to defend their own homeland’s security in the same way as Saudi Arabia’s, Jordan’s, Kuwait’s Turkey’s, etc. That also means we (ostensibly) don’t HAVE to obey the Geneva Conventions when dealing with captured Iranians (although we will do so if we feel like it, just ’cause we’re so kind and gentle.)
29. sam | April 27th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Timothy Horrigan,
you are not serious are you? If Iran’s army is considered a terrorist organization and allows you to ignore the Geneva Convention, then Iran will do the same. When they capture some pretty ole marines, they will just torture the hell out of them, and then kill them in public to show you that you fucked with the wrong country this time around.
hahaha..bring it on, i can’t wait personally.
30. Freedom1 | April 27th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Bawer: An Anatomy of Surrender
(Via Lgf), “Bruce Bawer has an excellent piece at City Journal on “creeping sharia,” the cultural and legal front of the global jihad—and it isn’t only happening in Europe: An Anatomy of Surrender.
31. Freedom1 | April 27th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
CANADA: Bell: A Home-Grown ‘Champion of Islam’
(Via Lgf), “Stewart Bell has a scary piece about the increasing numbers of young Canadian Muslims indoctrinated into extremism, focusing on one especially nasty Home-grown ‘champion of Islam’. - National Post
“Where are people like Naeem Muhammad Khan learning this Dark Ages hatred? Where else? In the mosques.” - Lgf
32. Freedom1 | April 27th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
Black & White on the Grey Matters 2 (War)
This guy is amazing! :)
33. Danish Artist | April 28th, 2008 at 6:38 am
C Wright,
They let them drown? Because they are democrats? Oh, please you worthless loser! Show me your proof, rather than an insensitive, but mostly true video! Video by a conservative group? I did not see any evidence of it being a conservative group? Proof?
Ok. Using your illogic the PERSON who let them drown was RAY NAGIN, another democrat! His responsibility was to follow the evacuation plan on the books!! Did he? NO! NO! NO!
He was worried about being sued by the hotel industry - the only industry in New Orleans since the democrat machine taxed the others out. It was his responsibility to get the people out. Once he called for an evacuation late Saturday/early Sunday it was too late. Then he opened up the dome, had buses pick up the citizens, which was not too clear on where the pick up points were and brought them to the dome.
That video is partially true, while some points have been exaggerated and generalized. But those in New Orleans that suffered were those who depend upon government for everything! Their dependence on New Orleans government to take care of them was their downfall. It’s unfortunate but true! Most of those people are incapable of taking care of themselves. Sorry, but the truth hurts!
The looters were mostly looting because of opportunity. Some looted for food and water. Others looted for profit. Harsh, but the truth.
Afterwards, most of the NOPD left! Abandoned their posts and civil responsibility. Why? Because most were not trained to handle that situation because of political appointment. Some couldn’t handle it and some lacked the intellectual fortitude. Remember those “officers” looting Walmart?
So, C wright, shoe me your “proof” of you stupid claims or just shut the f*ck up. Your a complete imbecile and another hate monger like the “Reverends” Al and Wright.
Wright? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm………………….
34. Christian Wright | April 28th, 2008 at 7:51 am
Watch the proof yourself in Spike Lee’s movie, “When the Levees Broke.”
35. neocon | April 28th, 2008 at 9:07 am
I love Chrisitians resources: Spike Lee and YouTube
LMAO
36. Danish Artist | April 28th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Spike Lee?!?!?
LMFAO!!!!
I might as well watch Michael Moore on health care!
Pssssstttttt…..wright, I know of several Republican communities that were hard hit by Katrina and were worse off aftwards than those bitching at the convention center. I know of Republicans who unfortunately drowed as well. Meanwhile those “Republicans” did something about their predicament, rathing than waiting around with their hands out. Lost, without having a clue as to what to do. Just waiting for big brother or nanny to come to their rescue.
Also, the levee’s breaking was not the fault of Republicans! The levee’s broke for several reasons - inadequate protection, corrpupt liberal politicians who appointed the head of the levee board, corruption in New Orleans.
The levees were inadequate when they were first built. When a federal proposal to strengthen them and raise them to 18 ft was stopped by who - ENVIRONMENTALISTS!
The liberal utopia of complete liberal rule in New Orleans is the main problem for levees in New Orleans. That was the darling political appointed position to get from the mayor of New Orleans. Many of these appointees resigned for corruption.
The feds were always wanted a full accounting to the monies that were allocated for maintaining and somewhat improving the levees. New Orleans in its liberal induced financial problems used some of those funds elsewhere. The result, the levees did not get the attention that was needed and several shortcuts were used, like a concrete wall, instead of an earthened dam. Those concrete walls were the big ones that collapsed because of inefficient anchoring into the bed rock because that would have cost too much.
So Wright, before you spew your liberal hatred, get all the facts and stop relying on sensationalists for them. They are looking for a quick buck from the conspiracy crowd and you fools fall for it time and again.
37. Danish Artist | April 28th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Wait……
I did see Spike Lee’s movie. It was a fair coverage of the ENTIRE FLOODED AREA rather than what the media focused on.
I remember that it was not Spike Lee who made the claim that “Republicans hated black people and let them drown”. It was one of the celebrities in the commercial breaks used to raise money who said that.
Wow wright, you are even uniformed about the so called references you use. Careful, Spike Lee might take legal action for spreading untruthful rumors about his work.
I see your rich white Republican hatred clouds your judgement. Thankfully, your daughter is getting a prime education from a private CATHOLIC school which will cancel out your influence.
38. Diana Powe | April 28th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Dude, where’s my arms contract:
Awarding an arms contract potentially worth $298 million to a company run by a 22-year-old who’d been arrested with a fake driver license. Isn’t that just super special.
39. Diana Powe | April 28th, 2008 at 11:16 am
The Straight Talk Express rolls over into a dry gulch in Nevada:
40. Joe | April 28th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Not that there is anything illegal, but what do you call it when you have a policy to not do something yet you do it anyway?
41. Diana Powe | April 28th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Oh! Oh! I know this one! It’s called rank hypocrisy!
42. Joe | April 28th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Ding ding ding… we have a winner.
43. Joe | April 28th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
What??? “Presumptuous? Not transferable?
Is this guy really a Republican?
But but but…. Wright is a racist so Obama must be too…. right?
Dammit… this Huckabee must have been duped by the mean MSM into saying such foolishness!
44. Christian Wright | April 30th, 2008 at 6:55 am
Boy am I glad this is an open thread so I won’t be deleted for being off topic.
The heros you guys worship in Iraq and Afghanistan are raping and murdering US women and getting away with it because the Army is covering it up.
94 US military women in the military have died in Iraq or during Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). 12 US Civilian women have been killed in OIF. 13 US military women have been killed in Afghanistan during Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF). 12 US Civilian women have been killed in Afghanistan.
Of the 94 US military women who died in Iraq or in OIF, the military says 36 died from non-combat related injuries, which included vehicle accidents, illness, death by “natural causes,” and self-inflicted gunshot wounds, or suicide. The military has declared the deaths of the Navy women in Bahrain that were killed by a third sailor, as homicides. 5 deaths have been labeled as suicides, but 15 more deaths occurred under extremely suspicious circumstances.
8 women soldiers from Fort Hood, Texas (six from the Fourth Infantry Division and two from the 1st Armored Cavalry Division) have died of “non-combat related injuries” on the same base, Camp Taji, and three were raped before their deaths. Two were raped immediately before their deaths and another raped prior to arriving in Iraq. Two military women have died of suspicious “non-combat related injuries” on Balad base, and one was raped before she died. Four deaths have been classified as “suicides.”
Just think how many Iraqi women and girls must be getting raped. No wonder they hate us for their freedom.