The AP and “Big Oil”: The Whole Truth?
May 22nd, 2008 at 07:55am Leo Pusateri
The AP has a story out that basically portrays oil execs as cowering under the thundering bloviations coming from the Senate yesterday:
“Where is the corporate conscience?” Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., asked the top executives of the five largest U.S. oil companies.
It’s all about economics, came the reply. Supply and demand. The company leaders tried to shift attention from motorists’ anger over $4-a-gallon gasoline to a debate over new areas for drilling.
But senators at the Judiciary Committee hearing weren’t having any of that. They wanted to press the executives about public anguish over paying $60 or more to fill up a car’s gas tank.
“People we represent are hurting, the companies you represent are profiting,” Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., told the executives. He said there’s a “disconnect” between legitimate supply issues and the oil and gasoline prices motorists are seeing.
The executives, sitting shoulder to shoulder in the hearing room, said they understood people were hurting, but they tried to blunt the emotion with economic analysis.
Profits have been huge “in absolute terms,” conceded J. Stephen Simon, executive vice president of Exxon Mobil Corp., but they “must be viewed in the context of the massive scale of our industry.” And high earnings “in the current up cycle” are needed for investments in the long term, including when profits will be down.
“‘Current up cycle,’ that’s a nice term when people can’t afford to go to work” because gasoline is costing so much, replied Leahy with sarcasm.
“The fundamental laws of supply and demand are at work,” said John Hofmeister, chairman of Shell Oil Co., acknowledging it is something the oil industry has been saying for some time and that the explanation may sound “repetitive and uninteresting.”
Hofmeister was joined by executives of Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron Corp., BP America Inc. and ConocoPhilips Co. Together the five companies earned $36 billion during the first three months of this year.
As the executives sought to explain their profits and why prices are so high, the global oil markets were moving into new, uncharted highs, touching $133 a barrel for the first time. The national average price of a gallon of gasoline hit $3.80, with $4 showing up in more places. Crude prices increased even more in late electronic trading Wednesday hitting $134 for the first time.
What writer Josef Hebert conveniently failed to add to the reporting was this reply by John Hofmeister, CEO of Shell Oil:
HOFMEISTER: In the United States, access to our own oil and gas resources has been limited for the last 30 years, prohibiting companies such as Shell from exploring and developing resources for the benefit of the American people. It is not a free market. According to the Department of the Interior, 62% of all on-shore federal lands are off limits to oil and gas developments, with restrictions applying to 92% of all federal lands. The Argonne National Laboratory did a report in 2004 that identified 40 specific federal policy areas that halt, limit, delay, or restrict natural gas projects. The problem of access can be solved in this country by the same government that has prohibited it. Congress could have chose to lift some or all of the current restrictions on exploration and production of oil and gas. Congress could provide national policy to reverse the persistent decline of domestically secure natural resource development.
That, my dear readers, is the problem in a nutshell. Big Government is in the midst of bloviating, beating their chests and pointing their bony fingers of indignation at “Big Oil,” when all the while the cause of and answer to the problem is waiting to be answered the next time they look in the mirror. And “Big Media” who is in cahoots with “Big Government” lacks the cajones to report that fact.
Surprise? I think not.
Entry Filed under: Kook Left
34 Comments
1. Magnum Serpentine | May 22nd, 2008 at 8:08 am
Big oil has tens of thousands of sites they can drill in and refuse to do so. I suggest you ask them why they are not drilling in all their spots.
I suspect the reason they refuse to use all the land given to them is Greed and they know if they drill all the slots given to them that there would be plenty of gas and the prices would be below 1.30
Big oil, drill in the land you already have before you greedily ask for more land.
2. Pain | May 22nd, 2008 at 8:28 am
1. Magnum Serpentine | May 22nd, 2008 at 8:08 am
Develop all of those areas, offshore, ANWR, even in Aunt Hattie back yard and the price everyone will pay will still be the futures contract cost for CL NYMEX. What none of you understand is the simple fact that there is no more cheap oil. The tar sands are only viable BECAUSE the price of CL NYMEX is over the threshold of 2.50/gallon for raw crude. At that price it becomes financially sound business to extract oil from tar sands.
Big Oil is not gouging the consumer the consumer is eating his own petroleum marinated tail. Profits are being made by Big Oil and investors at the NYMEX and the CME but that is true for corn and wheat and soy and any other hard or soft commodity from palladium to orange juice. That sort of trading and speculation is what keeps America’s lights on and business is the business of America.
Chindia [the colossus of the growing middle class in China and India] has driven the market haywire in regard to maintaining a handle on the value of oil as a commodity. No one expected the Indians and the Chinese to go hog wild per their infrastructure this soon before 2020 and demand so much light sweet crude. Many hoped the Chinese would go the coal gas route and they are still doing the best research on Terra to that end but as a backstop only. They see what they can do to the US economy by strategically buying large blocks of CL NYMEX and actually take delivery for their very real and longer term Strategic Petroleum Reserve.
It was really Shai’tan’s bargain in the very earliest days of trading one for of oil for another.[enjoy the resource now and never have to pay for the decline because humans do not live long enough to see the crash] However any of you who have grandchildren can take note that they will see the days when Terra runs out of oil and the horror that comes in the years to follow.
Non renewable sources of energy are always going to be subject to end times shocks post peak and with the emergence of China as a global economic power the match in a decade of the United States and Europe you can expect as BP Capital Management Chairman T Boone Pickens said, “One hundred fifty dollars a barrel by December.”
We, Ourselves think he is accurate.
3. Street Riot | May 22nd, 2008 at 8:51 am
Haven’t you noticed all of the mergers in big oil over the last 5-10 years? Mergers usually lead to one of two outcomes; lower prices through efficiency of scale or monopoly of the market place. With Enron fresh in our memories, I choose big oil is up to the latter.
From 1995-2002, 97% of the more than 920,000 barrels of oil per day of capacity that have been shut down were owned and operated by smaller, independent refiners. The 5 biggies are pushing the small independents out of business.
In addition to allowing the formation of these monopolies, in 2005 Bush signed the Republican dominated Congresses Energy Bill into law. While the bill didn’t do much to help average Americans - it did manage to give $8 billion in tax breaks to energy companies who have seen their profits sore.
.
4. William Teach | May 22nd, 2008 at 9:47 am
Magnum, care to list those sites? And, perhaps, why they do not drill there?
I would love to see all the “Big Oil” execs call a press conference and lay the fault for the failure to be able to drill and build new refineries at the feet of the Democrats. Won’t happen, of course.
5. Danish Artist | May 22nd, 2008 at 9:47 am
WHY DON’T THESE GUYS FIGHT BACK?
It was nothing less than a show trial. The Senate brought the leaders of the largest oil companies to Washington DC for a little grandstanding yesterday. Right there in the middle of all of this was Illinois Senator Dick Durbin.
I’m sorry, but this has to be said. Dick Durbin is either a shameless demagogue or a complete dumbass. I’m going with dumbass. This fool couldn’t tell you the difference between a profit and a profit margin if his reelection depended on it. He sat up there on his fat ass and said to these oil company executives “Does it trouble any of you when you see what you’re doing to us?” So … there you go. These high gas prices? This is all being done to us by the evil oil companies. They’re doing it to us with their huge profits.
We have increasing demands worldwide … and a diminishing supply of oil … and Durbin wants the uneducated people (as indicated by the moronic posts above) of this country to believe that these high gas prices are something that the oil company executives are “doing to us.”
Why can’t these guys defend themselves? Why can’t just one of them say: “Tell us, Senator, do you honestly believe that this government; the government that gave us Social Security and pork spending, could run these oil companies any better than we do? The American people instinctively know that if this was a government operation they would be waiting for days just to be able to put ten gallons of gas in their tank. Frankly, Senator, you don’t know the difference between an profit and a profit margin, and you would be hard pressed to make a successful attempt at running a corner gas station.”
Yeah .. I know. In my dreams.
6. RogerThat | May 22nd, 2008 at 10:00 am
Thats why the Republicans didn’t make more refineries when they absolutely could have from 200-2007. They didn’t care or didn’t think it was an issue. Oil and gas was predicted to surge dramatically yet they did nothing. Now that the price is really starting to hurt some consumers they blame the Democrats for not acting or not drilling. It could have been done by the Republicans if they really wanted to move forward with building more refineries. They chose not to. Blame is on both sides of this issue. Republicans for not acting when they could have and Democrats too scared to upset the environmentalists. Republican’s have also blocked the latest drilling bills that would have taxed the BIG Oil companies a couple billion in taxes. Their bottom line would have been fine, they wouldn’t go out of business like some kooks think.
7. OhioOrrin | May 22nd, 2008 at 10:05 am
thx pain - good info.
the dollar has been systematically devalued by our govt & subsequently the market.
OIL IS PRICED IN DEVALUED DOLLARS !
and the dollar will be further devalued until it can be folded into the AMERO (google).
monetary merger, and NAFTA, are small pieces of the trilateralist (long) planned merger into the NORTH AMERICAN UNION(google).
the merger of the european union, & their currency (the euro) is before your eyes as proof.
see the whole puzzle, not the pieces.
educate thyself.
8. William Teach | May 22nd, 2008 at 10:48 am
Please spare us the NAU conspiracy nuttery, Ohio.
9. js | May 22nd, 2008 at 11:20 am
so if these demoncrats had some answers, where are they? they claimed they could solve the problem, and then fail to open us lands to exploration and drilling…while they watch U.S. companies spend billions in foreign lands destroying the environment in foreign lands finding oil for foreign governments that are hostile to the USA, while they watch the american people get raped for gas to get to work to pay thier tax bill…
is there something wrong here or am i just turning liberal?
10. OhioOrrin | May 22nd, 2008 at 11:54 am
teach - is the EU “conspircy nuttery” also?
11. Danish Artist | May 22nd, 2008 at 11:59 am
Still waiting for Nancy Pelosi’s “common sense” plan to reduce oil/gasoline prices…………………………………………………………….
…………………………………………………………………….
…………………………………………………………………….
…………………………………………………………………….
promised back in 2006/07.
12. Doug | May 22nd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Actually Ohio makes one good point…if we quit buying Chinese products and spending the dollar overseas for even one year, you could see the value of the dollar rise and drop that oil price in half.
However, the Dems are dimwits. Here we are in a transitional period of time where in 20-30 years we’ll have another source of energy to power transportation, and yet they refuse to use that 20-30 years of oil we can get out of ANWR.
It’s perfect timing to already be drilling for the oil, by the time the Dems allow it, the perfect timing will have passed by and there won’t be a need for it.
13. Sunny | May 22nd, 2008 at 1:27 pm
I have not heard of even one oil company asking to construct more refineries, have you? The large oil companies do not want additional refineries because they can control the output of petroleum products if they control the number of refineries and their out-put. Back in the early 80s these same oil companies bought up all of the independent refineries and closed them down so they could control the output of gasoline. There is a Sunco refinery here in OK that is up for sale and the concern is that it will also be closed if bought by an oil company.
14. CanadianObserver | May 22nd, 2008 at 1:29 pm
5. Danish Artist | May 22nd, 2008 at 9:47 am
WHY DON’T THESE GUYS FIGHT BACK?
Why can’t these guys defend themselves?
—————————
My guess is, they would if they could, but they can’t.
15. Sunny | May 22nd, 2008 at 1:34 pm
8. William Teach | May 22nd, 2008 at 10:48 am
Please spare us the NAU conspiracy nuttery, Ohio.
This is not consiracy nuttery. Ask the people in west Texas if the NAu is fiction. They are being squeezed by the government to give up land through eminemt domain. Here in Oklahoma there is a lot of pressure from DOD to get this highway built through our state as well. That “super highway” from Mexico to Canada is only the start of what the Bush administration has been trying to push through. Bush has met with the leaders of Mexico and Canada for the past four or five years and refuses to disclose the purpose of the meeting. Educate yourself William Teach.
16. Aztec | May 22nd, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Oil is expensive because the dollar is devalued. The dollar is devalued because of deficit spending. We are experiencing huge deficits because of tax cuts for the rich. We still pay about a grand per taxpayer per year on the interest for the deficit Reagan created and we will paying for the current fiscal folly for just as many years.
17. Danish Artist | May 22nd, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Uh, Aztec….there have been record revenues to the treasury since the tax cuts! Where have you been? Under a rock? The dollar is devalued due to the outrageous reductions in the prime lendind rates. Caused by poor planning of the banking industries and the mortgage debaucle of people making loans who can’t pay or who were over extended and some just walked away from their mortgages…..just like California Congresswoman Laura Richardson (D) http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland/2008/05/report-californ.html
Stop repeating the debunked talking points.
18. Danish Artist | May 22nd, 2008 at 2:01 pm
CO, they can fight the grandstanding rhetoric from liberal democrats!!!
The federal government makes more on a gallon of gas than does the oil companies make in profit!!!
They simply choose not to. Economics is on their side, all liberals have is rhetoric and scapegoating.
19. OhioOrrin | May 22nd, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Sunny - I pray our fellow citizens will SOON fully comprende the rapid move towards the NAU. The speed surprises even me.
one prob is politicos from BOTH parties have bought in…or been bought off if u will.
eg - Bush easily coulda sent Hillary or ear bama to those unexplained meetings because they’re sympatico on the union.
20. Freedom1 | May 22nd, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Yep. The Pelosi Premium is certainly painful at the gas pumps. Back in 2006, the Democrats promised to lower gas prices. They’re in charge of Congress. Gas prices have gone through the roof. Nice job, Pelosi./sarc.
Congress is the cause of our high gas prices. They need to get the heck out of the way of oil and gas exploration in the US. Drill in ANWR, off the coasts and in the Gulf of Mexico. Build new refineries. Give the green light for nuclear power plants, solar, wind etc. Do it now!
21. neocon | May 22nd, 2008 at 6:19 pm
I am so glad Leahy and Company tore apart those evil oil execs. Gas here only went up 2 cents today.
Man those liberals know how to get results, don’t they?
22. middlefinger | May 22nd, 2008 at 8:14 pm
So answer me this you repuke nitwits,
have you had to wait in ONE gas line? Is there a shortage that- right now-affects availability? Look around, are there gas lines anywhere?
No cretins, another refinery is not the answer.
A realistic energy plan is. Doing SOMETHING that will immediately wean us from the teet.
Bush’s do nothing administration is the problem. We have been telling you that the house of cards is tumbling for a LONG time now.
Our devalued dollar is the problem. Our credit and housing economic crisis is the problem. Our staggering deficit is the problem. The waste of money down the Iraqi sink hole is the problem. Our crumbling infrastructure is the problem.
Your pin headed, narrow minded solution of drilling haphazardly and expecting immediate results is laughable.
When it comes down to it, the lack of a coherent energy/economic plan by the POS Bush administration has lead us to the precipice we teeter on now.
Go ahead morons, say it’s everything else but the obvious.
Get a grip. Pusatari, you’re a hack. Save it for the ice palace.
23. middlefinger | May 22nd, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Thanks,
I feel better now.
24. neocon | May 22nd, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Middlefinger,
What does waiting in line have to do with anything? Do you realize that we now import refined oil now to handle the demand, and at a much higher price?
Suggesting that anyone is supporting “haphazard” drilling and immediate results demonstrates clearly your high level of ignorance. And to further suggest that this current problem is the result of the last eight years of policies further cements your idiocy.
You obviously know nothing of substance re: the ANWR debate, the breadth of the restrictive governmental regulations championed by liberals, free markets, nor the on-going alternative energy efforts.
Your post was a fine example however of regurgitating what has been fed.
25. middlefinger | May 22nd, 2008 at 11:03 pm
I firmly believe the energy and economic policies of the POS Bush administration have done NOTHING to correct a path we are on.
I then read Noonan’s incredible diatribe on how conservation of petroleum would have DIRE effects on our economy.
We MUST re-enforce the idea of conservation and make immediate stride in renewable energy sources.
Our economy is already in the crapper (except here on BFV) and at this point there is little else to do.
Honestly, given the time frame of drilling and refinery construction (as long as it’s not in your backyard), it’s obvious somethings going to break far before we see any of the MINOR results of those efforts.
The only thing I get from your post is DRILL, and build those refinery’s and our problems will be solved. Yeesh. Get a grip.
We need drastic changes to our energy policies, and not soon enough.
By the way, if you actually think GW’s little middle eastern adventure didn’t cost us more than the apparent nightmare, then…stick your head back in the hole.
Bush has made this world a MORE dangerous place. Everybody knows it and is grabbing what commodities they can, while they can.
26. phnx | May 23rd, 2008 at 12:59 am
Durbin is such a hypocritical pandering phony. “Don’t you feel a bit of remorse for all that you are doing to us” he asks the oil moguls who collectively are earning 8% return. In the meantime, 20% of the price of a gallon of gas in Chicago is tax.
The corrupt governor of the state is hoping to pay the deficit with the tax revenues.
In the meantime, the dems could solve the problem by opening Anwar and the offshore fields to drilling. Even if we were not able to get the oil for years, the mere thought of the US as being more self sufficient would drive $20 to $40 of speculation out of the price of a barrel.
BTW : I hope that McLame changes his position on Anwar and B. Hussein camaigns against it. I’m sure Joe & Jane six pack would be real receptive to the logic of not drilling with gas at $4 per gallon and rising. (NOT)
27. Doug | May 23rd, 2008 at 1:59 am
Where I fuel up, I seem to be waiting in line forever. It’s not that there is a shortage of gas, it’s just there is a huge demand for it. I’m sure everyone here has noticed that the number of cars on the road has doubled in the last couple decades. More two-earner families, more kids driving, that’s just what’s happening. I’m always shocked that no matter what time of day I’m filling up, I always have to get in line behind 4 or 5 other cars at a multi-tank station.
In the last 17 years the demand for gasoline in this country has gone up 30% while in the last 38 years or so, domestic oil production has dropped 50%. Environmentalists have made it prohibitively expensive to drill for oil or to build refineries.
Yes, the price of gas stinks, but it makes a lot of sense. It’s not like Congress can’t significantly ease our burden by making it cheaper to build refineries and easier to drill - they just won’t.
28. Danish Artist | May 23rd, 2008 at 10:08 am
Liberal politicians have been coming up with all sorts of fancy schemes to combat the current gas prices … they’ve done everything except actually come up with a logical, long-term solution. But this hairball scheme, out of all the schemes out there, might be the most ridiculous to date.
Representative Paul Kanjorski is a Democrat from Pennsylvania. His plan would establish a “Reasonable Profits Board” in which the government will determine whether or not a company’s profits are excessive. Here are the basics:
H.R. 5800 would tax industries’ windfall profits.
The bill would set up a Reasonable Profits Board to determine when these companies’ profits are in excess, and then tax them on those windfall profits.
As oil and gas companies’ windfall profits increase, so would the tax rate for those companies.
Kanjorski said his legislation will encourage oil companies to lower prices to prevent them from receiving higher tax rates.
How completely asinine is this jerk’s idea? Clearly he was educated in the same Marxist school as Barack Obama and these other liberals who despise the idea of the free market.
I’m not through with this crackpot idea yet. I know many of you have read “Atlas Shrugged.” Now maybe I’m wrong, but wasn’t there a similar government entity in that epic book? It’s been a while since I read it, but I would swear that this Kanjorski idea was lifted straight from that book.
Remember — for liberal politicians like Kanjorski, you really only allowed to earn profits selling something or providing some service that the people don’t actually need. Will there be a profits board for lawyers? Actors?
Just how long do you think it would take for liberal politicians - anti-capitalist liberal politicians - to start working to add other consumer items to the jurisdiction of the Reasonable Profits Board? The pressure would certainly be on to get food added ASAP. Then it would be pharmaceuticals. Oh … and if you’ll remember that story from earlier in the week about “affordable” weight loss clinics … let’s add those too.
Idiots like this Kanjorski need a little more attention from you.
ALSO….
If you want some explanation as to where much of your money you spend on gas is going … look no further than your own government. Dick Durbin sits in Washington and points his finger at oil executives for their “excessive” profits. He then complains that in his home state of Illinois, Chicago residents are paying the highest gasoline prices in the country … and this is all the fault of the oil company executives!
Well guess what? Dick Durbin forgot to tell you that Chicago also has the highest tax rate on gasoline than anywhere else in the country. Nearly 20% of the Chicago price for gas goes directly to the government. The prices are higher because of government taxes.
In fact, there are apparently ten levels of taxation on gasoline in Chicago. You want a break down? First there are Motor Fuel Taxes, which go to the federal government, Illinois, Cook County and the city of Chicago. Then there’s a 9.25% sales tax which is split among Illinois, Chicago and Cook County’s share of the state sales tax. Then there’s a county home rule tax. And how about a RTA transit tax. Oh and let’s not forget a Chicago home rule levy. Yep, that’s about ten levels of taxation. But the oil companies probably came up with that plan … wait, no they didn’t. That would be the government.
So right now, on a $4 gallon of gas, the government gets a total of 79.2 cents in taxes. The Governor of Illinois is really excited about these high gas prices because they are expected to bring an extra $220 million into the State Treasury. More of your tax dollars for your government to waste.
THE DUMBEST MEMBER OF CONGRESS …
Well, that might be quite a contest. Up until yesterday I might have had a hard time picking between that Kennedy kid, Sheila Jackson Lee from Texas and Maxine Waters from California.
Yesterday Maxine Waters got her chance to grandstand in front of those very same oil company executives that were roughed up by the Senate on Wednesday. Waters didn’t exactly like what she was hearing from the private sector .. so she started sputtering something about the government taking over the oil companies. She stumbled over the word “socialism,” but finally settled on “taking over.” The actual word she was looking for was “nationalize.”
What a ditz.
Sadly .. thanks to our wonderful government education system … there are quite a few Americans who would go along with the idea. I mean, after all, the votes to put an idiot like that in Congress had to come from somewhere, didn’t they?
Again, where is the “common sense” legislation for combating high oil/gas prices promised by Pelosi and the lib gang in 2006???
Is this it? If not, it shows that liberals are devoid of ideas outside complete government control and confiscatory taxes.
To the little viper (MS) and other like-minded liberal buffoons…
SO HOW ABOUT BECOMING PART OF THE SOLUTION
The Bush administration has released a report (http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=77175) showing that most of the oil and more than 40% of the natural gas on government land is off limits to drilling. Do you hear that? Almost ALL of our oil, we are not allowed to access. Almost half of our natural gas, we can’t get to it.
Opening up these resources would give energy companies access to 19 billion barrels of oil and 231 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. Based on current consumption, the inaccessible reserves amount to a 2.5 year supply of oil and a 10 year supply of natural gas, based on current consumption. This oil could offset the artificial short supply and would last longer if used that way and not replace ALL oil needs.
Liberals part of the problem and their solutions are bone-headed schemes to steal profits and taxes from hard working Americans. They don’t want solutions - just more problems - so the lemmings will rant and rave and grant the politicians the ability to take control or “nationalize” whatever they want.
Truly pathetic that the lemming left are too ignorant to see…but then again most went to government schools.
29. HeyHey | May 23rd, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Hey DanishArtist,
At least give Neal Boortz some credit. You basically copy and pasted his whole article and made it your own. You did add some jibes in there though, I will give you that. Nice work! Gotcha!
30. Danish Artist | May 23rd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
HeyHey,
Why reinvent the wheel?
He stated the obvious truth, less work on my part.
Glad to see you are a closet reader.
31. HeyHey | May 23rd, 2008 at 3:36 pm
“Why reinvent the wheel?”
Thats all fine and good but you should give a source or least acknowledge it when you copy an entire article. You tried to pass it off as your own.
32. Danish Artist | May 23rd, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Heyhey,
as usual liberals condemn the source not the content.
Where it came from, irrelevant. What is relevant are the facts contained therein.
33. HeyHey | May 23rd, 2008 at 4:34 pm
As usual, you missed the point. Where did I condemn the source or content? The article actually brings up some good points.The fact that you tried to pass this information off as your own independent thoughts was what I was referring to. That’s it. Pretty simple stuff.
“Where it came from, irrelevant. What is relevant are the facts contained therein.”
I’ll remember that when you complain about liberal MSM bias.
Have a good holiday weekend everyone!
34. Danish Artist | May 24th, 2008 at 5:28 am
heyhey,
As usual, you were not responding to the points of the articles and not their content.
How can you not see the disconnect.
As far as taking credit for something not my own, am I submitting it for payment (liberal NY Times reporter)? for a grade (Ted Kennedy)? for a political speech (Obama)?
No I am simply passing on information, but since i is truthful, liberals have a problem with it. I have been to many liberal sites and their arguments are always the same attack the source while ignoring contents.