85 Comments

• 1. Pain  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 6:35 am

  Irrelevant.

• 2. Robin Naismith Green  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:01 am

  It just may be the coffee this morning but I have a problem with this line of thinking and I’m not angry about it just more confused by the illogic being used for political purpose. I can understand Mr. Obama’s point he makes which is taken to mean what it says like all people when you do wrong you are outside those values you understand are the boundaries of right and wrong. I would take that as a positive measure of a man who is going to be the next president of the United States.

  As far as the sourcing goes I must confess as a city desk editor I would have chose a source to find the definition of sin somewhere else than the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. And I do understand that the definition of sin comes from the catechism and not from them but a quick witted person could pause and ask the question, “Whom should I trust a group that spent over two and a half billion dollars [h! 2.808.988 d. 305 s.6] paying restitution to families victimized by pedophiles who were subordinates to said group or an individual man whom I can measure on his merits and actions without a corporate veil?”

  Barack Hussein Obama is a new quantity in American politics in much that he has done he is emerging as the Jackie Robinson of American politics. And you all know what history feels today about those men in suits screaming insults at Jackie, right?

• 3. Fredrick Schwartz  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:18 am

  Deleted - off topic.

• 4. extramedium  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:38 am

  A presidential candidate doesn’t need to have the same religious beliefs that I do in order to get my vote. I don’t think any candidate could obtain a majority of votes if that were the test.

• 5. Robin Naismith Green  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:42 am

  4. extramedium | June 3rd, 2008 at 7:38 am

  And where would all of this end? Just at the ballot box or would there be religious tests for jobs and applying to university as well? Talk about your slippery slopes. If I’m hiring someone to do a tough job I don’t care who they pray to I want the job done to pay them and have them come back tomorrow ready to dive in again.

• 6. CanadianObserver  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:46 am

  Barack Hussein Obama is a new quantity in American politics

  2. Robin Naismith Green | June 3rd, 2008 at 7:01 am

  Yes, and the very thought of it seems to be scaring the bejesus out of those who fear positive change.

  The closer Obama gets to the White House, the more anxiety will be shown; thus producing an increasing amount of panic-induced BS to throw at him in a feeble effort to prevent the inevitable.

• 7. HarkeysBar  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 8:43 am

  Another dumb Obama post….a non-issue.

• 8. HarkeysBar  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 9:12 am

  Any comment on the myriad of McCain gaffes? Forget that he is the most inconsistant person on all the issues. He always seems to have his information wrong. Don’t mind that. Let us speak of Obama and sin. Rich!

• 9. Pain  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 9:15 am

  A nation of people that will do this are not concerned with Obama’s religion they just want a decent level of comfort in their lives.

• 10. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 9:53 am

  The following quotes are from someone who obviously has very little understanding of Americans, and what made this country the greatest nation on the planet:

  We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times … and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK. That’s not leadership. That’s not going to happen.

  “They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

• 11. Pain  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 10:07 am

  10. neocon | June 3rd, 2008 at 9:53 am

  And your point neocon is?

• 12. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 10:12 am

  I thought that was obvious, but I will elaborate.

  Obama is a charlatan, with zero understanding of what, and who made this country what it is today.

  Add those comments to Maxine Waters statements the other day and you soon realize how far left, drifting towards communism, the Democratic party has become.

  They really have no place in the landscape of America anymore. What’s sad is that people like you are just ignorant enough not to realize that.

• 13. Pain  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 10:40 am

  12. neocon | June 3rd, 2008 at 10:12 am

  No, neocon, what is sad is that what you have said is just merely your opinion and thereby it carries no weight whatsoever in serious debate. As soon as you assign your negative feelings toward an issue to something you lose credibility. The Right Wing needs an Enemy to rule not to govern. This is why your side has so much trouble getting anything done domestically.

  Given an enemy like the Soviet Union or the straw man of “Islamofascism” your side does very well because your side is good at lying and bombing things to smithereens. Having to reason your way to a negotiated decision you find that it is often better to wave flags and affix bumper stickers that hearken back to the “good old days.”

  We understand the frustration but you were told that going negative will cost you most of Congress and the entire White House. Go on vent your Middle Class frustration at a world changing too fast for you to keep up. There will still be those in the Center keeping your seat warm when you want to join the rest of the sane folk.

• 14. Carlton Pryor  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 10:44 am

  of course Obama’s faith is important what it isn’t is anyone’s business to be used as a wedge in these serious economic times all over Terra. Don’t waste the luxury to argue how man black candidates can dance on the head of a pin today on what you can do for the hungry and poor all over the planet oh no, mate it’s far more important to ensure the sheeple know that no matter how Christian Obama says he is he cannot, EVER, be Christian enough for “REAL AMERICANS” like Kathleen Parker pointed out so clearly two weeks ago. this is all rubbish, just like so called conservative morals are all rubbish.

• 15. Tractatus  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 11:17 am

  We can’t drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times … and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK. That’s not leadership. That’s not going to happen.

  So you think other countries are going to fund our often comparatively lavish lifestyle without any objection? Is that what you think, neocon? Really?

  Or is it just that you don’t actually understand (or choose not to understand) what Obama said and instead think you’ve found some line of attack?

  Probably the latter, especially since you’ve locked onto “Obama thinks we should ask other countries what we can drive and where to set our thermostats!” like a dog on a soup bone. Sad that you probably think you make an actual point in saying that. Sad and predictable. Poor little guy.

• 16. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 11:31 am

  Pain,

  Thank you confirming my low opinion of you. Your post did not address anything that I stated, nor did it address the departure from self reliance, and capitalism that made this country great. But I know you have very little understanding of that.

  I found your comment of “not keeping up with the world” amusing. If you think mediocrity is “progressive” than you more thick I gave you credit for. The rest of world is mired in mediocrity and follows our lead economically and technologically. Every single valuable tool of todays world was innovated in America; electricity, the telephone, the television, the car, the computer, etc. because of our freedom and our free markets.

  You sir, advocate regulated markets and “the collective good” which effectively kills the spirit of the individual to excel, which will in turn adversely effect the advancement of society and individual achievement. And you consider your positions to be sooooo caring of the individual when in reality, it does more harm than good.

  And please, quit perpetuating the hysteria of bombs and enemies. It really makes you seem like a scared little communist, unable to succeed on his own, so he hitches his trailer to those who feed him his false sense of security. Don’t worry Pain, someone else will take care of your needs. Maybe Obama?

  Now instead of scared little boy propaganda, can you tell me why the Democrats are advocating communism/socialism? And how you think that benefits America, the land of the free?

• 17. Sunny  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 11:31 am

  “They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

  neocon, what you do not seem to able to grasp is this statement made by Barack Obama is that it is true and way too many Americans cannot face the truth. The GOP has gotten support from those who do cling to their religion and guns instead of looking out for themselves and what is really in their best interest. That is why the GOP makes moral issues such a major part of their platform the issues of gun ownership and religion with every election. That is how you get these people to support the GOP. Meanwhile, those really in charge of the GOP continue to become very wealthy on the backs and toil of those they have convenced that their right to carry their guns on a rack in their pick-up trucks and that gay marriage will ruin this nation are the real issues they need to vote on, not the issues that affect them financially. Jobs continue to be sent to foreign countries, corporations get richer and richer and these folks get poorer and poorer. If they ever wake up and smell the coffee and realize that they need to start looking out for their own best interests you will loose that part of the population when it comes to elections. These folks are poorly educated, white and easily mislead and most are from the south. I live in the souther part of the US and see it election after election. As long as the president claims to be a Christian, is white and a big supporter of the right to carry arms they will support him to the death. I suspect you will have these voters for a long time - the south changes very slowly.

• 18. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 11:37 am

  “So you think other countries are going to fund our often comparatively lavish lifestyle without any objection?” - Tractatus

  Honestly you guys are soooooo FUC&$%ING stupid, it hurts to carry on a conversation with you. What countries fund our energy consumption tractatus?????? I want the name of the countries and the specific dollar amount they contribute to us on a monthly basis.

  Or what amount of money will be required from other countries for us to continue down our path? Be specific tractatus. How much will Peru have to pay for example. Can’t wait to hear your response.

  Tractatus, seriously, you’re so completely brain dead I really feel sorry for you. Who ties your shoes in the morning?

• 19. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 11:40 am

  Sunny,

  Your post is so phobic, racist, stereotypical and delusional it does not merit a response.

  But why do you hate Americans?

• 20. Pain  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 11:53 am

  16. neocon | June 3rd, 2008 at 11:31 am

  And the reason for that is there is no point for Us to respond to an ad hominem attack on a political candidate with whom you disagree. Where is Our achievement or progress in doing such a thing?
  And what you do here is more of the same level of nonsense that merely is a venting of your very personal and curiously Middle Class American frustration with your inability to control even the price of the gasoline you so need for your run from it in the car lifestyle.

  You have heaped up offense, at abortion at gay marriage as taxation at immigration for so long you see these things as PRIORITIES rather than issues flung into your visors to blind you from what needs to be done in America by your conservative elitists masters.

  We are not communists, We are a Collective; the business of America is free market capitlaism and enjoying the fruits thereof. If some of you theocratic anticapitalists who are more interested in waving flags and decrying a man like Hugo Chavez who sends you 14% of the 20 MM barrels of oil you need a day, oil you will perish without, would brush the sand off your necks and learn a bit about the global economy you would not be forced to look back to Alexander Graham Bell to find the golden age of American invention. The television was invented by a Scot named Baird who transmitted pictures over a distance of greater than 400 miles between glasgow and London over a telepgraph wire.

  Karl Benz a German is credited with the invention of the modern gasoline powered automobile for public use in 1885.

• 21. Pain  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 11:55 am

  18. neocon | June 3rd, 2008 at 11:37 am

  We have an answer: The People’s Repubic of China, Japan and the United Arab Emirates through purchasing 60% of the 10 trillion dollars of US debt.

• 22. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 pm

  Pain,

  THOSE ARE NOT AD HOMINEN ATTACKS. THOSE ARE BARACKS VERY OWN WORDS - IN CONTEXT.

  Am I not allowed to critique what he actually says now???? Are Democrats not allowing that anymore????

  Your projection and summation of mine could not be further from the truth. I have zero frustration, however it appears that your panties are tightly bound. And why did you bring abortion into the mix????? Is that what you always resort to? Your delusional perception of conservative xenophobia? Seriously, you need to educate yourself.

  And incidentally, those countries buy those bonds as an investment vehicle in the greatest country known to man. Not as subsidies.

  It’s that education thing. Get some.

  And I want to know why you guys despise America. It is very obvious in your posts, so what is it? Have you failed miserably and now want to exact revenge against people like me, who have succeeded?

• 23. Danish Artist  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 12:25 pm

  Wow, the minions of the daily pitchfork, hell’s daily newspaper, is out in force.

  Spreading their nonsensecal BS. We are a collective? What, like a ant colony or beehive? The thing is there is always a queen and everyone has to cater to the queen. The liberals expect to be the queen and us common folk must live by their rules.

  Tractus, who pays for our lifestyle?????

  Until I see liberals cutting down on their lavish lifestyles, maybe I’ll consider cutting mine.

  The topic of the post has been avoided once again. Questions like that to Obama can reveal his character. Of which, Obama has been very careful and secretive. His lemmings are out today in force to protect the secrets and make excuses for him/her.

  Libs can be so foolish.

• 24. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 12:36 pm

  The only thing “collective” amongst our communists is their brain damage.

  Their posts underscore a fundamental misunderstanding of the foundations that made this country great. And sadly, they are merely a by-product of our failed educational system.

  And incidentally, where is my right NOT to be included in their “collective” agenda?

• 25. Pain  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 12:54 pm

  22. neocon | June 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 pm

  Oh brave neocon We do not despise America We, Ourselves despise what you have tried to make of it.

• 26. Robin Naismith Green  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 12:57 pm

  23. Danish Artist | June 3rd, 2008 at 12:25 pm

  Hey don’t even try that kind of double talk every one of you ‘nutters has dodged my first comment.

  Neocon went the Obama making America giving up lifestyle route and the hread was immediately lost.

• 27. Pain  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 1:02 pm

  23. Danish Artist | June 3rd, 2008 at 12:25 pm

  Well yes a bit more like a bee colony actually, very well done.

  We will make a deal with you Danish Artist [surprising you did not change your handle to "Singed Danish Parts" after that mess in Pakistan yesterday, but hey you were the one that thought mocking Mohammed (pbuh) was funny ] you give Us the transcripts of Cheney’s Energy Policy meetings and We will give you a map of Barack Obama’s Soul. We wonder Who would make greater hay out of the product?

• 28. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 1:30 pm

  Pain,

  America was made great long before I ever came along, on the very same foundations that I spoke of. You and your ilk, are attempting to dismantle that foundation to re-build this country on some fearful “collective” foundation that takes away freedom, free markets and individualism.

  Seriously, learn a little bit about America.

  The thread is about Obamas faith, which is evident in the very words of his that I posted. If we can’t take Obama at his word, then how are we to understand his views?

  Pain, are you afraid to make fun of Mohammed? Is that not acceptable to you?

• 29. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 1:44 pm

  “Well yes a bit more like a bee colony actually, very well done.” Pain

  Is Obama your queen Pain? Or are you his?

• 30. Dennis  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 2:17 pm

  Mark, did it never enter your mind that Obama, “after accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord,” as you say, internalized the teachings and values of Christ in his own life? Hence, being out of alignment with those values for him would indeed constitute sin.

  For one who does not honor the admonitions and teachings of Christ, the values of a genuine Christian are fodder for ridicule and contempt. The teachings of Christ, including loving your enemies, helping the poor, forgiving those who trespass against you, recognizing the Samaritan - the “other” - as your neighbor, seem to be integrally woven through Obama’s value system and have been on display throughout his campaign. Of course nobody is perfect, but Obama strikes a significant contrast with “business as usual” politicians.

  Naturally these essentially Christian values are a threat to those who love power and wealth, who hate their enemies and cherish revenge, who consume a disproportionate share of the world’s resources, and who desperately want to maintain the status quo in Washington.

  If you want to criticize the details of Obama’s life just remember they did the same thing to Jesus Christ. Obama attended a “racist” church, Christ ate and drank with sinners. In fact just about everything Christ did offended the sanctimoniousness of the scribes and Pharisees. Read the Gospels and answer, why is it that your petty criticisms sound so much like theirs?

  Incidentally neocon, it wasn’t capitalism that made America greater than all nations before us - it was our Constitution. Our wealth was never our greatest treasure, it was our principles as defined by our Bill of Rights. America’s great sin has been to fall out of alignment with those principles, to allow the executive branch to exceed the power of the legislative branch and thus to pour contempt upon the will of the people.

• 31. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 2:36 pm

  Wrong Dennis,

  Had you ever thought that that constitution is what gave us the freedom of markets and self and thus lead us to the worlds greatest economy, which then enables us to remain strong and independent, and free?

  Can you put all that together?

  By I was amused at how you quickly devolved into BDS. So typical.

  Now liberals are comparing Obama to Jesus????
  I thought liberals celebrated seperation of church and state?
  Dennis, are the pages of your Obama book sticky?

• 32. Dennis  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 2:54 pm

  Neocon, Barack Obama is no Christ, but he appears to be an honest and authentic Christian, distinctly different from the popular evangelical brand that passes for such. And as such he is being attacked and ridiculed in much the same way Christ was.

• 33. Jeremiah  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 3:08 pm

  America’s great sin has been to fall out of alignment with those principles, to allow the executive branch to exceed the power of the legislative branch and thus to pour contempt upon the will of the people.–Dennis.

  I’ll have to disagree with you there, Dennis.

  America’s great sin is their allowing the judiciary to interpret the Constitution however they see fit, and it can be rightfully said that they don’t interpret it…they just make some crap up and then call it “constitutional law” …. just like Harry Blackmun, he made up some “right” to “privacy” and other such non-sense.

  Oh well, Barack Obama will ensure that we have plently of evil constructionists … and I mean evil. With his being radically in favor of genocide of the unborn.

  This country will go down just like his Muslim buddy Farrakhan wants it too.

  Yes….we’re in trouble if the people are stupid enough to put Barack Hussein Obama in there as our 44th President. Period. The End.

• 34. Sunny  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 3:23 pm

  “And incidentally, where is my right NOT to be included in their “collective” agenda? neocon

  That street goes both ways. You believe that your way is the right way - the only way for “real Americans” to believe. Who do you think you are questioning my patriotism? I am ever bit a loyal American and love my country as much as you do. Just because I have a different view as to what are the real issues we as a nation need to address does not diminish my love for my country. It is getting old to have people like you question my loyalty.
  It is just too bad that you are so unable to look at the truth and ask what can we do to change. If we never admit the that there is a problem we can never fix it. For you to deny that there isn’t a racist streak in this is nation you are totally out of touch. That is one reason, if not the main reason, that many many Americans will not vote for Barack Obama. It has nothing to do with his religious beliefs - after all, he is a Christian. It has nothing to do with his stand on the issues - many do not even know where he stands on the issues. It has nothing to do with his knowledge or educational back ground - it is because he is black. However, most forget that the man is also half white - they only see the black.
  I don’t know where you live but if you ever travel through the deep south you will see that what I stated above is true.
  Your rights are no greater than mine!

• 35. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 3:37 pm

  I don’t question your loyalty, I question your intelligence.

  The only racist streak I perceive is within liberal ranks. There is, and always will be an undercurrent of racism, but it is aggrevated daily by divisive liberals. And you are the one that sees Obama as half black. Personally, I don’t care if his skin color is orange.

  The policies you advocate on the same policies that have made many other nations mediocre at best, and the absence of those policies are what made America great.

  And your rights are no greater than mine……that’s what America IS. If you had your way…..I would not be able to exercise my right. Do you understand that?

  Dennis,
  Your love child Obama, is a distant cry from Jesus. Secondly, he is not being attacked because of HIS religious views. He is abeing attacked because of his associations with racists who hide behind the pulpit.

  Do you understand that?

• 36. Jeremiah  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 3:44 pm

  If we never admit the that there is a problem we can never fix it.–Sunny.

  And the problem is? Not what you think it is, Sunny. Our problem is those who defend very liberal policies, i.e. - increased taxes, murder of the unborn, redefining family, “global climate change” scare tactoc hysteria and rhetoric keeping us further dependent on foreign oil and not letting us drill, and not letting us use radioactive resources for nuclear, not letting us use wind and solar devices for enery resources.
  Instead you just tax, tax, tax us to death.
  Protection is another - liberals reject security measures to keep America safe - What happens when we stop defending our cherished freedom? We lose it. The Muslims will take it.

  after all, he is a Christian.

  Who? Barack Obama? Pfff, he sure likes to claim and act like one, but his actions and policies sure don’t show through - if he were a “Christian” then his policies would reflect it but as it is, they don’t and only makes him out to be one great big hypocrite of the first order.

  Your rights are no greater than mine!

  No, and neither are Barack Obama’s, but he is out to make and implement invented “rights” that the American people should reject in a heartbeat. In effect, if he is elected President - the Constitution will go up in flames. Hundreds of years worth of sound judgment that the Founders intended for America to succeed - GONE!

• 37. Sunny  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 3:52 pm

  he is a Christian

  “Who? Barack Obama? Pfff, he sure likes to claim and act like one, but his actions and policies sure don’t show through - if he were a “Christian” then his policies would reflect it but as it is, they don’t and only makes him out to be one great big hypocrite of the first order.” Jeremiah

  And God ordained you to be the one to judge whether or not a person is a Christian? Hmmm - interesting. It would be interesting to see who’s principals Jesus would be more likely to find acceptable. And exactly what are the “Christian” policies?

• 38. Sunny  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 3:59 pm

  neocon | June 3rd, 2008 at 3:37 pm
  I don’t question your loyalty, I question your intelligence.

  Actually, you did question my loyalty by asking why I hate Americans. As to my intelligence, that is your way of saying that my opinions are not valid and that I have no right to express them. Just because you do not agree with another does not mean you need to stoop to the level of insulting to make yourself feel better. I think one can agree to disagree without personal insults. I suspect that I am as well educated as you are.

• 39. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 4:15 pm

  When did I ever say that you have no right to express your opinion?????

  You’re too sensitive Casper and too full of liberal drama. I am also NOT insulting you. Sheesh.

  I question your intelligence because you support socialistic/communist policies. That’s an opinion, not an insult.

  Get a grip. It’s impossible to have a debate with a liberal because:

  A. They’re too myopic.
  B. They do not have an intellectual reference outside of the liberal paradigm.
  C. They’re too sensitive.

• 40. Robin Naismith Green  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 4:23 pm

  35. neocon | June 3rd, 2008 at 3:37 pm
  Secondly, he is not being attacked because of HIS religious views. He is abeing attacked because of his associations with racists who hide behind the pulpit.
  

  You mean like Jerry Falwell and Bob Jones and did for years?

• 41. Jeremiah  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 4:28 pm

  And exactly what are the “Christian” policies?–Sunny.

  Sunny,

  Completely opposite of those liberalis policies I’ve mentioned. Let’s recap:

  Here are the liberal policies under current day modern liberalism and a follow up of what a Christian policy should be:

  Let’s go over them one at a time -

  i.e. - increased taxes

  Instead of increasing taxes to obscene levels to fund for all these other programs that we don’t need, why don’t we instead put people to work, and by getting off of foreign oil, we can create new jobs, the economy would boom tremendously.

  That’s what a Christian would do, because, as God’s people, we aren’t to have idle hands, and with the new jobs we help people, people have a purpose in life they can raise families and have food on the table and have nice things, and we give God all the glory and thanks for such blessings. That’s what a Christian would do.

  murder of the unborn

  Instead of encouraging women to murder their children in the womb for more sex, why don’t we encourage them and help them have purpose in life as the little newborns bring joy to their mothers arms wrapped up in a little blanky. So precious! :)

  redefining family

  Instead of encouraging and redefining family to accept the abomination that is sodomy, why don’t we encourage marriage the way that it is supposed to be, between One Man and One Woman and is what we call Holy Matrimony, and it’s not to be defiled, but to be upheld to the glorification of Almighty God as a gift to man and woman. That’s what a Christian would do.

  “global climate change” scare tactoc hysteria and rhetoric keeping us further dependent on foreign oil and not letting us drill, and not letting us use radioactive resources for nuclear, not letting us use wind and solar devices for enery resources.

  I think we’ve pretty much cleared this one up, but instead of conjuring up stuff and encouraging a proletariat state for power and control for stuff that is totally outside of our control, as God controls the climate and weather, why don’t we try to be truthful and acknowledge that God is going to take care of us. He says, ‘Be still, and know that I am God.’ That’s what a Christian would do.

  Protection is another - liberals reject security measures to keep America safe -

  This one is a biggy - What would a Christian do, to keep us safe? He would understand that we have an enemy, and that, to protect us from that enemy - he is willing to sacrifice his life, fortune and sacred honor to protect his land of freedom. And he won’t wait til the last minute when terror has done struck but he will go to the enemy now and do whatever is necessary. He will help his brothers and sisters in harms way as well. This is what a Christian would do.

• 42. FmrMarine  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 4:29 pm

  WOW;

  Editorials from Hell’s leading daily newspaper -
  the porno, hate Christian, gay agenda, trolls
  are here in full force robo disrupting today.

  >>>>And exactly what are the “Christian” policies?>>>

  Read the New testament, especially the gospels.
  Also the letters to the romans and Ephesians.
  That should splain it!

• 43. Robin Naismith Green  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 4:31 pm

  36. Jeremiah | June 3rd, 2008 at 3:44 pm

  And who are you to question another man’s faith? How dare you do that! That’s just simply unbelievable and you call yourself a christian? Because a man has a different political philosophy and a different skin tone he isn’t good enough to be your President and he cannot be a good enough example of an adherent to YOUR religion. You are a really confused person and i really don’t want to hear that naive tripe about what I need to let into my heart that flows out of that sewer racist belief set you have.

  America needs to move on.

• 44. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 4:31 pm

  Which Republican President attended either one of their churches for a long period of time? Which Republican President claimed that either one of those gentleman were their spiritual guides, mentors, and good friend? Which Republican President was baptised, or married by either one of those pastors?

  I must have missed that.

• 45. Casper  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 4:33 pm

  “You’re too sensitive Casper and too full of liberal drama.”

  Considering I haven’t commented on this thread, I have no idea what you are talking about.

• 46. Robin Naismith Green  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 4:36 pm

  42. FmrMarine | June 3rd, 2008 at 4:29 pm

  Yeah right as if you live your life worshipping anything but your own face in a mirror. Lip service and fertilizer from the religion buffet go round. look i deal with real issue and people that have common sense if you want to debate on the merits fine Fmr marine but otherwise you can go back and smoke another bowl of dope, or read your Bible or watch the latest girls Gone Wild video I don’t care because your opinion means nothing to me because I don’t exactly see any site of your where you present your opinions on a daily basis.

  What do you stand for dishonorable discharges because that’s the only way anyone can become a “Fmr” Marine.

  Can we get back to the issue of Obama’s faith vice whatever floats McCain’s boat that seems to be popular to those who vote with their religion?

• 47. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 4:39 pm

  Sorry Casper,

  I meant Sunny. But I am surprised you didn’t put that together.

• 48. Sunny  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 4:49 pm

  Jeremiah, would you please provide cites from the Bible to back up your statements?

  And neocon, the American president who probably spent less time in a church than any other American president was Ronald Reagan. Could one still call him a Christian? In my opinion, yes, but everyone here seems quick to judge the Christianity of others. I have always felt that only God sould judge.

• 49. Robin Naismith Green  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 4:49 pm

  44. neocon | June 3rd, 2008 at 4:31 pm

  As if Reagan didn’t ride on Jerry Falwell’s back to the White House in 1980 the year the “Moral Majority” came to prominence as a political force? Please!

  Did Geirge W Bush speak at Bob Jones University on 2 february 2000 or not less than a month after being asked to do so establishing himself as the “christian candidate in the 2000 campaign?

• 50. FmrMarine  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 5:14 pm

  RNG

  Pornographer, Christian hater, pro gay agenda troll. from HELLS news or whatever.

  >>> Lip service and fertilizer from the religion buffet go round.

  otherwise you can go back and smoke another bowl of dope, or read your Bible or watch the latest girls Gone Wild video

  I don’t care because your opinion means nothing to me

  What do you stand for dishonorable discharges because that’s the only way anyone can become a “Fmr” Marine. >>>>

  UMMM NOT really MORON !

  1. NO lip service from a religion buffet, It is CHRISTIANITY and it stands 180 degrees diametrically opposed to what you larry flynt wanna bees stand for.

  2.I do not smoke anything especially DOPE, I leave that for you soulless marxists. GGW?
  Hardly once again that is YOUR venue not mine.

  3.Who cares if you like me…YOU are my enemy and the enemy of my culture, state, and country.

  4, Marines, like presidents, governors, senators, become FORMER when they no longer are actively serving.
  Nice try but no monica cigar for the porno queen from hells (approiately names) newspaper.

  Obama belonged to a racist, afro centrist, marxist, CULT.
  HE IS NO CHRISTIAN, he is pro abortion, pro gay-agenda, anti Isreal, pro muslem, and an hollow empty suit.
  Which is perfect for the left.

• 51. Robin Naismith Green  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 5:32 pm

  50. FmrMarine | June 3rd, 2008 at 5:14 pm

  Whatever.

  Here’s one thing I know little man . . .

  When Barack Obama takes the oath and shakes the hand of Chief Justice John G Roberts Jr. he will be your President. You can like it not like it call it whatever you will. I will work on exposing his flaws and foibles justy like I’ve done for these last 7 1/2 years hoping to get Americans to look a little more introspectively regarding their politics.

  I don’t care if you hate me but I know the sweetest revenge that can be taken on you is knowing that every time you look up and see that American flag for four years at least you will know that a black man sits in the highest seat of governmental power on the very face of the planet as the Leader of the Free World. Your leader Fmr Marine and there won’t be a bloody legal thing you can do about it.

  Now that’s the sort of dish I can eat cold and you can have Faith that I will enjoy every waking minute of your misery. Or you could leave and go to Sweden or Norway or some other racially suitable nation. Oh wait they are all Liberal democracies too aren’t they? Darn. Maybe you can declare your patch of Tampa a part of the Confederacy? We just want you to feel better about your impending loss of political manhood.

  You don’t want to play this game anymore do you? It’s too easy I’m not having any fun.

• 52. Pain  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 5:39 pm

  50. FmrMarine | June 3rd, 2008 at 5:14 pm

  We prefer adult entertainment venue, exposer and in opposition to religious hypocrisy and champion equal rights advocate but since you are one angry individual feel free to repeat the same trite statement over and over again as if that makes Our political insight [We called the Carter endorsement of Obama 6 hours before the AP based on a tip from a source at the DNC] one whit less credible.

  All your shouted insults and redneck rhetoric just makes you look silly. Politics is a game for big boys so before you get your skirt dirty why not just skip on back home to mommy before you skin your knees.

• 53. FmrMarine  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 5:46 pm

  RNG;

  >>>“Whom should I trust a group that spent over two and a half billion dollars [h! 2.808.988 d. 305 s.6] paying restitution to families victimized by pedophiles>>>>

  should I trust a group that spent over two and a half billion dollars paying restitution to families victimized by - HOMOSEXUAL- pedophiles.

  There fixed.

• 54. Pain  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 6:03 pm

  53. FmrMarine | June 3rd, 2008 at 5:46 pm

  You dimwit the two are mutually exclusive because the vast majority of paedophiles or hebephiles no matter the sex of their victims are straight.

  That sort of nonsense comes from the same sort of eugenic medical studies that said all epileptics and black men should be sterilized “for the good of the race.” That sort of thinking is anathema to Us.

• 55. Jeremiah  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 6:06 pm

  Jeremiah, would you please provide cites from the Bible to back up your statements?–Sunny.

  Sunny,

  In the order as follows as they relate to the things I mentioned above in their order:

  1. Romans 2:7-

  To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life.

  2. Gensesis 9:5-7

  And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man’s brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.’

  3. Proverbs 18:22-

  ‘Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the Lord.’

  4. Read Job 38

  5. Deuteronomy 22:1-4-

  ‘Thou shalt not see thy brother’s ox or his sheep go astray, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt in any cas bring them again unto thy brother. ANd if thy brother by not nigh unto thee, or if thou know him not, then thou shalt bring it unto thine own house, and it shall be with thee until thy brother seek after it, and thou shalt restore it to him again. IN like manner shalt thou do with his ass; and so shalt thou do with his raiment; and with all lost thing of thy brother’s , which he hath lost, and thou hast found, shalt thou do likewise: thou mayest not hide thyself. Thou shalt not see thy brother’s ass or his ox fall down by the way, and hide theyself from them: thou shalt surely help him to life them up again.’
  Genesis 14:14-16- In preparation for conflict-
  ‘And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan. And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smot them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus. his goods, and the women also, and the people.

• 56. FmrMarine  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 6:11 pm

  RNG;
  pornographer, Christian hater, gay-agenda promoter.

  >>>I don’t care if you hate me but I know the sweetest revenge that can be taken on you is knowing that every time you look up and see that American flag for four years at least you will know that a black man sits in the highest seat of governmental power on the very face of the planet as the Leader of the Free World. Your leader Fmr Marine and there won’t be a bloody legal thing you can do about it.>>>

  I love you larry flynt wanna bees, a real laugh.

  Actually I have NO….. problem whatsoever with a black man being POTUS.
  Only….THIS - marxist, empty suited lying, mullatto.
  whom chooses to portray himself as “black”.

  Im actually from NY, and now live in FLA.
  no rebel flag, here but who cares.
  You have attempted to tie me in with certain groups, in a feeble attack not worthy of the butch im sure you are.
  camon you can do better.

  PS
  is that a picture of YOU with your tongue in pains bum???? most likely.

  YEAH tell me all about it porno queen from “HELLS newspaper”.

  It will be a close race, and will be very ugly.
  The real earbama will show up and it wont be pretty.

• 57. FmrMarine  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 6:14 pm

  p;

  >>>the vast majority of paedophiles or hebephiles no matter the sex of their victims are straight.<<<

  UM HUH - SURE!

• 58. FmrMarine  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 6:32 pm

  pain-porno queen;

  http://www.trosch.org/ant/gay_priests.html
  http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_rcc.htm
  http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/homosexual_priests.htm

  part of a good article….

  “In 1973, aggressive homosexuals successfully lobbied the American Psychiatric Association to expunge homosexuality from the list of psychological disorders. Yet homosexual priests are considered deeply ill and perverted.”

• 59. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 6:44 pm

  Robin,

  Your comparisons of Reagan and Bushs encounters with Falwell and jones to Obamas relationship with his spiritual mentor is laughable at best, delusional at worst.

  You don’t seriously think that Reagan rode the coat tails off Falwell, when he won a LANDSLIDE victory over Jimmah carter, do you?

  I mean that’s just mind numbingly stupid.

• 60. Some Assembly Required  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 6:45 pm

  “2.I do not smoke anything especially DOPE, I leave that for you soulless marxists. GGW? - FmrMarine

  Hey, don’t knock it until you’ve tried it. Smoking dope (marijuana) and playing video games is a much better way to spend an evening then drinking beer, taking your shirts off and going punch for punch with your ‘heterosexual’ buddies.

  Aside from that, it might open up your mind a little. At the very least it should lighten you up, who knows you might even get a laugh out of it.

  One more thing, I’m not sure if it was this thread or not, but you stated ‘homosexual anal sex = AIDS” So I ask you, what do you think about Rev. Wrights comments on the matter?

  In case you miss my point it is this… you are a hypocrite among other things. Opps, maybe that was too strong of an insult to describe a right wingnut on a right wing blog.

• 61. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 6:48 pm

  “Here’s one thing I know little man . . . ” - Robin

  Weren’t you the one that just derided others for insults?

  Are you starting to get a little angry because your liberal paradigm is being challenged?

• 62. FmrMarine  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 6:56 pm

  SAR;

  I always suspected…….anyway!

  >>>>>but you stated ?homosexual anal sex = AIDS? So I ask you, what do you think about Rev. Wrights comments on the matter?<<<<

  It is pure insanity. (wrights comments)
  For the record AGAIN………
  I believe AIDS is a horrible disease. It is 100% preventable.
  The LIFESTYLE of homosexual men, and intravenous drug users, perpetuate this disease.
  Those who push the AGENDA that promote these lifestyles without stopgaps, are as responsible as the ones who perform the acts themselves.

• 63. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:20 pm

  Robin,

  Why do you assume Fmr Marines disagreement with Barack is about his race?

  “…every time you look up and see that American flag for four years at least you will know that a black man sits in the highest seat of governmental power on the very face of the planet as the Leader of the Free World. Your leader Fmr Marine and there won’t be a bloody legal thing you can do about it.” - Robin

  And why did you bring up his race at all? Is that the way you think of him?

  Finally, note the way Robin ends that sentence. There’s a willful glee in restricting his freedoms, specifically freedom of speech. Interesting. That is not the way America is to be governed. Even if Obama is elected, there’s a whole lot Fmr marine can do. Ironically, with support from the likes of you, America is starting to have second thoughts about your messiah.

• 64. Robin Naismith Green  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:20 pm

  59. neocon | June 3rd, 2008 at 6:44 pm

  Ronald Reagan would not have won in any form of landslide in 1980 without the massive turnout of “evangelicals” in the South and Midwest and white working class Catholics in the Northeast. Look at the numbers and tell me if the Moral Majority made a difference in the outcome against Jimmy Carter. But that race is history neocon now the GOP has to figure out where they can get enough lipstick to make their pig attractive enough to those same voters.

  McCain has to play to the base and the terrifying fact is he doesn’t know how to play the real family values game. He is a divorced former Navy man and he doesn’t get offended by porn or gambling or drugs and doesn’t even like culture warriors. The trick will be how to get the rubes who trusted Dobson, twice, to not run off with Dobson away from McCain this time.

  And yes I did deride someone for insults but you know what I’m not the religious nut who’s gonna stand here and let someone throw rocks at me and not pick up a rock myself. Sorry for my hypocrisy but a gal’s gotta do what a gal’s gotta do.

• 65. Robin Naismith Green  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:31 pm

  63. neocon | June 3rd, 2008 at 7:20 pm

  Oh I don’t know why I bring up race maybe because women like Kathleen Parker write Blud und Boden articles saying Obama isn’t of the right patriotic blood to be President as if this were the 15th Century and in Saxe Coburg Gotha.

  The race issue is a uniquely different matter in the United States even more so than a country I spent quite a bit of time in South Africa. Even Obama gave up the “post-racial” tenor he had a year ago because he realized that was a bunch of horse apples. And besides race is the crippling point for the GOP I doubt McCain will get 0,5% of the black vote and if he gets a third of the Jewish vote he can count that as a win.

  Florida is meaningless now McCain can have it because the Solid South otherwise is now officially busted. So yeah race is important now funny that when Nixon and his boys were laughing at how the Solid South worked so well by using hatred of blacks and the civil rights movement you guys loved talking about race. Now not so much– curious.

• 66. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:35 pm

  Robin,

  You give entirely too much credit to evangelicals, who represent approx. 10% of the base. That is strictly a liberal scare tactic designed to perpetuate the theocratic meme. It’s tedious and boring.

  McCain doesn’t “play” to anyone, he is who he is and he is well known. The base will vote for him, especially since a far left socialist liberal is the alternative. You know, that guy you keep referring to as black.

• 67. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:38 pm

  Kathleen Parker reference
  black and jewish vote references
  southern strategy reference

  straight from DailyKos via the DNC

  you really need to start thinking for yourself
  really, you can do better

• 68. neocon  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:39 pm

  And are you blaming your racism on Kathleen Parker? Is it her fault?

• 69. Jeremiah  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:40 pm

  One thing’s for sure … when Barack Obama is President and our country goes to pot, it won’t be Barack’s fault….it’ll be no one’s fault except the American people.

  ‘Cause Barack don’t know the first thing about governing this country…and the Liberals know that, and so we know what that means…the Big Wigs like the Clintons, the Gore’s, the Rockefellers, that super rich guy in Congress, what’s his name, you know they call him the ‘King of Pork’, anyway, him, and the ACLU, NAMBLA, GLBT, Americans United for Seperation of Church and State, American Atheists Association, and others will all be calling the shots - and that means America is about to be plowed under.

• 70. Dennis  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:45 pm

  FmrMarine at 5:14 pm: “HE IS NO CHRISTIAN, he is pro abortion…”

  It is ludicrous to call Obama pro-abortion. He is for personal autonomy and responsibility in matters that do not pertain to the government.

  I really don’t like profanity. But if any state or the federal government tried to pass a law banning swearing, I would fight that law tooth and nail, because that is not an issue for government to legislate. It is a matter of personal conscience. That does not make me “pro-profanity.”

  There was a time when Republicans believed in limited government. Now it is the party of criminalizing ever more kinds of behavior, often very personal behavior.

  Incidentally, if you care so much about the unborn, prove it by taking care of the already born. Let women answer to God and their spouses for their very personal (not public) responsibility to the unborn.

• 71. Jeremiah  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 7:51 pm

  Let women answer to God and their spouses for their very personal (not public) responsibility to the unborn.–Dennis.

  That’s just it, Dennis, we want to lead women to Christ.

  You don’t lead women to Christ by encouraging them to murder their babies by leaving the option on the table…you lead them to Christ by showing them how to care, and some times that means making the law so that they understand that that is the way it will be.

  If you don’t, just think of how many women you rejected by encouraging them to murder through making abortion available…

• 72. Robin Naismith Green  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 8:05 pm

  67. neocon | June 3rd, 2008 at 7:38 pm
  Never read the Daily Kos myself too scatterbrained. I don’t have time to gather talking points I just read the AP. So what does that make Noonan for his daily reads of the Catholic Press? People tend to gravitate to ideas that verify their positions. For me it’s the AP, London Times, Svenska Dagebladet, the LA Times and a variety of background sources in both business entertainment and yes politics.

  And no I blame Kathleen Parker for Kathleen Parker’s racism and I wish she’d just kept her’s to herself.

  71. Jeremiah | June 3rd, 2008 at 7:51 pm

  As a private citizen you can do that all you want in my opinion but once you bring that into the government you are just plain old wrong Jeremiah. You cannot use the government as a tool of your religion. It is as trweasonous to liberty as joining al Qaeda and working for the murder of American citizens.

  ooh, you used the N word! What is it with you jeremiah do you think that if AMerica is “plowed under” you won’t get plowed under to because you are in such an I told you so state of grace? Nevermind strike that don’t even worry about me as far as I’m concerned you’re right I’d rather eat ice cream than argue with a crazy fundie that has less chance of seeing Paradise than a Hustler model.

• 73. Dennis  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 8:08 pm

  Jeremiah, just think how many people you encourage to lie, slander and use profanity by leaving the freedom-of-speech option on the table. Tut tut…

  And lots of luck with that “leading women to Christ” thing. It sometimes sounds like you’d be happier leading sinners to jail, or to execution.

• 74. Jeremiah  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 8:26 pm

  Well, Dennis, you know, there was a time when “anything goes” was not included in free speech, swearing and profanity were the two most noteworthy actions that were punished.

  But, just so happens that that has all changed since ‘60 … and you know what? That’s where America went wrong…..Now, everything goes……you name it….it’s “acceptable” or, at least to liberals it is.

• 75. Jeremiah  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 8:29 pm

  Oh yeah, and blaspheming against Jesus Christ was against the law too … they may not be going to be judged now, but Hell is sure going to be full…cuz somebody said, “Aagggh! It’s “ok” let ‘em do what they want…WHO CARES??? Eh?

  You hypocrites!

• 76. Mark Noonan  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 10:08 pm

  Dennis,

  If Obama meant that, he would have said that - he didn’t; I’m right about him on this, ’cause I’m taking him at his word…you’re wrong, because you’re trying to explain things away.

• 77. Dennis  |  June 3rd, 2008 at 11:55 pm

  Mark, you said “Values created by a human being are, well, worthless,” and “Obama was adhering to Obama’s values.”

  I suggested in post 30 that Obama, after accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord, internalized the teachings and values of Christ in his own life. Hence, being out of alignment with those values for him would indeed constitute sin.

  You say you’re right and I’m wrong, because I’m “trying to explain things away.”

  Here is what Obama said:

  “Jesus is an historical figure for me, and he’s also a bridge between God and man, in the Christian faith, and one that I think is powerful precisely because he serves as that means of us reaching something higher. And he’s also a wonderful teacher. I think it’s important for all of us, of whatever faith, to have teachers in the flesh and also teachers in history.”

  So, Obama has not only accepted Christ as Saviour, but as a teacher.

  A little further along:

  GG: Is Jesus someone who you feel you have a regular connection with now, a personal connection with in your life?

  OBAMA: Yeah. Yes. I think some of the things I talked about earlier are addressed through, are channeled through my Christian faith and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ…

  So according to Obama’s own words he has, in fact, internalized those teachings. My argument stands intact.

• 78. Some Assembly Required  |  June 4th, 2008 at 8:06 pm

  62. FmrMarine | June 3rd, 2008 at 6:56 pm

  The lifestyle of homosexual men promotes this… You make it sound as if the only way you can get AIDS is to go out, find a gay man and forceably insert yourself into him bum.

  Fact, unprotected sex with a man or a woman (maybe even monkeys) can give you AIDS. I truly get a kick out of people like you because in the same breath you say something like ‘lifestyle’ you’ll promote ‘abstinence only’ as the only form of sexual education. As if homosexuals are the only people capable and practicing a promiscuous lifestyle.

  I hope you don’t have a few to many one night, do something stupid with a woman at a bar and end up with that horrible disease. Not only would it kill you, but you’d have to re-think your entire life. I truly do not know which is worse.

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