State AG’s Request California to Delay Gay Marriage
June 4th, 2008 at 05:08am Mark Noonan
Interesting development:
Attorneys general from ten states on Friday asked the California Supreme Court to delay until November its ruling implementing legal same-sex marriages.
The attorneys general, all Republicans, said if the ruling is implemented on schedule on June 17, the states would be subjected to lawsuits from homosexual couples married in California who seek to have their unions recognized in their home states, the San Francisco Chronicle reports.
“An inevitable result of such ‘marriage tourism’ will be a steep increase in litigation” over whether the couple’s home state must recognize their marriage, said Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, who authored the brief. Shurtleff said delaying the implementation of the ruling would save other states from “premature, unnecessary, unnecessarily difficult, and therefore unduly burdensome litigation in our courts.”
The attorneys general of Alaska, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Michigan, Nebraska, New Hampshire, South Carolina and South Dakota joined the brief.
Each of the ten states has legally banned the recognition of same-sex marriages contracted elsewhere. Unlike Massachusetts, where homosexual marriages have also been legalized, California allows residents of other states to marry even if the marriage would not be legal in their home state.
California voters could overturn the state Supreme Court’s decision in the November 3 election with a constitutional amendment that would declare only opposite-sex marriages to be valid. Sponsors of the amendment have submitted petitions bearing 1.1 million signatures, about 400,000 more signatures than required to qualify for the state ballot.
Is this part of a strategy? Colorado, Florida, Michigan and New Hampshire are all set to be battleground States in the fall, and the race will probably be close enough that one or two States can decide it…making California’s judicial usurpation on the issue of gay marriage is an excellent way to nationalise the issue for the electoin; a way of letting people know just how high the stakes are in 2008, because if you like what the CA Supreme Court did, then you’ll love what Obama’s US Supreme Court nominees will do.
Time will tell, but this campaign is going to be a very interesting race.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, General Government, Justice System, Popular Culture, Social Issues
165 Comments
1. Magnum Serpentine | June 4th, 2008 at 7:14 am
There is a problem with your thinking Mark,
The Citizens of the nation rank Gay Marriage at the bottom of their concerns, its down there below abortion.
They are, instead, more concerned with the Economy, which the republics have proven they love giving tax cuts to the top 5% of the nation and getting the troops out of Iraq now, which the republics have proven they want an eternal war
Gay marriage is furtherest from their minds. Just like Abortion is, its not even on the radar of the citizens.
2. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 4th, 2008 at 7:17 am
This same tactic was tried in 1948 after Perez v Sharp because attorneys general “feared litigation in excess.” What they actually feared was interracial marriage at the time and the effect the change would have upon their worldview just as now many would deny rights to people who have them because of uncomfortable notions about sex in their own heads.
And for the legal record the voters cannot overturn a Supreme Court decision in this manner because only the California State Legislature meeting in a Constitutional Convention can vote to take away rights already held forth by the Supreme Court as within the scope of the California Constitution. [See Rippon v. Bowen (2008) 160 Cal.App.4th 1308, 1313]
There is that silly word inalienable again.
3. Eric T | June 4th, 2008 at 9:25 am
The people in Michigan showed up in large numbers to protect traditional marriage and ban affirmitive action in the last election here.
Even with Michigan being a blue state, it shows that many democrats reject the extreme lefts homosexual agenda and racist programs that give preferential treatment to people based on their race.
I work with alot of democrats, They seen the damage from bad trade deals. The people here are really concerned with jobs that have been getting outsourced by the tens of thousands, foreign banks charging 32% interest, bankrupting people, then foreclosing on their homes and taking their land. Bush was suppose to send a manufacturing czar to our state. The GOP could do well with a agenda that keeps focus on what is best for the American People and their families.
Gay marriage is not what is best for the family, but the issue is not a concern if your good paying jobs in manufacturing are flying off to China, computer programers going to India, and companies like Ford are laying off folks here, to outsource the jobs to Mexico to build cars there to be shipped back and sold here. People wonder why their government won’t take some stands to protect their jobs. If your building a car in Mexico to sell in Mexico, one thing. But just exploiting cheap labor and bringing it back here is undercutting the American workers.
4. HarkeysBar | June 4th, 2008 at 10:10 am
“because if you like what the CA Supreme Court did, then you’ll love what Obama’s US Supreme Court nominees will do.”
Aren’t the CA Supreme Court Justices Republican apppointed?
5. Robin Naismith Green | June 4th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
4. HarkeysBar | June 4th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Of the 7, 6 were appointed by republicans; 4 by Pete Wilson (R) 1 by Schwarzeneggar (R) 1 by Dukmejian (R) and 1 by Davis (D)
6. Just Another Taxpayer | June 4th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
The AG’s from other states may care: However, in my amicus curiae brief to the Ca State Supreme court. When it comes to how we treat the legal aspects of all contractual relationships under Ca juridiction, including marriage, but out!!!(No pun intended.)
The people in this state will ultimately take care of this matter for themselves. If the likes of your and your religous liberals, Mr. Noonan, are so interested in saving marriage, I suggest you start with your own. Let the 10th amendmant rule apply here. It’s the last true vestage of the constitution your religous and secular counterparts have left to us that has any hope of functioning properly.
A fact : Red states have always had a higher rate of divorce than blue states. You need to ask yourself why before you start telling other people how to live. Or maybe that’s why divorce rates are so high: your so busy telling oter people how to live, you don’t notice the failures in your own homes.
Have a nice day!!!
7. Eric T | June 4th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
just another taxpayer-
After reading the clip from the author, you can see that it is the gateway to many legal problems with people moving in and out of the different states, It is a Federal issue, the states rights approach will lead to endless litigation. Federal Marriage Amendment will keep it from spiraling into chaos.
“the states would be subjected to lawsuits from homosexual couples married in California who seek to have their unions recognized in their home states, the San Francisco Chronicle reports.
“An inevitable result of such ‘marriage tourism’ will be a steep increase in litigation” over whether the couple’s home state must recognize their marriage, said Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, who authored the brief. Shurtleff said delaying the implementation of the ruling would save other states from “premature, unnecessary, unnecessarily difficult, and therefore unduly burdensome litigation in our courts.”
8. Just Another Taxpayer | June 4th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Eric T
So what?
Let the litigation begin. An amendment? What waste of time. How’s that going to help people pay at the pump, keep their jobs, or pay for their homes?
Please! There’s no issue here. Bushs people who have been praying, and their allies in the private sector have lead us into a financial mess the likes of which has not been seen since the depression(ie Bush concern with the sexual behavior of others does not equal prosperity, or as Bush people like to put it, the Almighties favor.)
It doesn’t matter anymore.
You religous liberals are going lose control of govt, just as your secular counterparts did in the early 80’s. Economic failure.
That’s it.
9. BARRASSO | June 4th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Only in wingnutland is giving people more freedom called JUDICIAL TYRANNY.
10. Eric T | June 4th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Judicial Tyranny is leftist judges forcefeeding people perverse laws that turn upside down centuries of traditional culture. If the majority of the people were for it, it might be different. But they are not, and it is not the norm, of the culture. That is not close to freedom, just extreme liberalism.
11. Pansy | June 4th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
The majority of the people are against taxation, of any kind. The majority also have a bone to pick with serving any kind of jury duty.
There are many ways in which the desires of the majority are ignored so that society might function. The fathers of our country were particularly concerned with the “tyranny of the majority.”
However, the solution to this problem is simple: Married people should immediately renounce all of the various legal and political benefits bestowed by the State which are currently accorded to married couples.
This is the only solution to this problem that has any kind of long-term life expectancy.
Anything less is just staving off the inevitable: Full-blown weddings for Gays in the church of their choice.
12. Down Under | June 4th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
A marriage debate between Obama and the conservative and twice married McCain would be welcomed. We can ask him in a town hall meeting; if as you say the sanctity of marriage is so vital to the existence of American then why did you trash your first marriage? Was it because your future wife was heir to a beer company fortune needed to launch your political career?
13. Robin Naismith Green | June 4th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
10. Eric T | June 4th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
What you consider perverse is not the law nor does it have any bearing upon the law in regard to people being treated with equity. Traditional cultural reliance makes the law moribund and delays the enjoyment of rights of the minority. Other than the Biblical prohibitions and the appearance of caring about health issues brought about by this religious stance there is no stable ground in opposing gay marriages. The majority of people were not likely to engage in marriage across racial lines and the same arguments of incest being accepted or bestiality or polygamy were lodged in 1948 in California and in 1966 in the Loving case in Virginia.
I agree that it always appears to “traditionalists” those human beings that would not change because of the ease of living the same old way are only angered when rights are bestowed to people in the spirit and letter of equal rights but applaud when rights are denied. It is the mentality of the authoritarian punisher that will eventually need to be curtailed by law to put back in the box the cancerous marriage of religious doctrine government power. This is the most slippery slope of all.
14. Pain | June 4th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
10. Eric T | June 4th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
We, Ourselves, doubt if you would recognize a leftist if one fell on you from the top of the Coit Tower.
Rule of Law works in America despite the fact that every “librul” is a commie spy and advocate for paedophilia and a thief of blood and treasure for not “supporting the troops.”
Do you want to really debate this issue or do you just want to vent how uncomfortable sex between members of the same sex makes you feel? Maybe someone needs to propose and amendment making divorce unconstitutional as a rider on this intiative. We feel certain you would not get 1 MM votes in the entire nation in support of “sanctifying marriage” by making it a permanent bond.
15. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 4th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
AG’S REQUEST STAY DENIED BY CALIFORNIA COURT; MARRIAGES TO PROCEED UNDER THE LAW.
Another reasoned and rational opinion.
FROM CBS 5 SAN FRANCISCO
Shannon Minter, legal director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights in San Francisco, said, “We are grateful to the court for ruling on the petitions so quickly and for allowing its historic victory for fairness and opportunity to go into effect without further delay.”
Minter represented same-sex couples suing for the right to marry.
San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera, who also filed a lawsuit seeking marriage equality, said, “I’m gratified by the court’s decision to deny the rehearing.”
Herrera said, “It would have been unprecedented to postpone constitutional rights based on speculation of how an election scenario may or may not play out in the future.”
16. Eric T | June 4th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Pain-
OK ???
Tell me all the reasons you support gay marriage. And why you wanna change something that has been the standard for centuries.
What will keep the next batch from trying to legalize beastility, necrophila, pedophilia, incest, or other variant sexual preferences that are NOT the norm.
17. Kahn | June 4th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Utah should declare polygamy legal so polygamists can sue California. It looks just as legal to me as “gay” marriage.
What is the principle of the California Supreme Court decision? That marriage is a choice between individuals and the gender can not be specified. Well, neither can the number for that matter. Neither is specified in the Constitution.
Polygamy is next, just watch. It has EXACTLY the same legal basis as “Gay” marriage. And, it has a stronger basis in history and practice around the world.
Liberals, welcome to the slippery slope.
Oh, and to be clear. I don’t care and I’m fine with either, or both. Marry rocks and trees. I don’t care. Just remember that in California that tree gets half your assets if you divorce it.
18. js | June 4th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Actually, polygamy is more legitimate than sodomy. There is a huge difference between the two.
Poligamy is a reflection of family lifestyle, still maintaining the male/female reproductive relationship and purpose, in that it produces offspring for a new generations, while sodomites are naught but pleasure seekers confused in thier sexuality without benefit to society or the future of society.
19. js | June 4th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
15. Cavalor Epthith
Another reasoned and rational opinion.
———
Only if you think stupidity is the goal of our courts. This not only clears the way to polygamy, but also to many other sexual perversions, including pedophiles. Every step to legitimize deviant sexual conduct tears down the wall between right and wrong, and before you know it…people will be marrying sheep in Montana, goats in North Dakota, and the courts will be entertaining lawsuits from pedophiles to legitimize sexual relations with minors….
stupidity grows….
20. Pain | June 5th, 2008 at 10:33 am
16. Eric T | June 4th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
16. Eric T | June 4th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
The people must make no law that declares equal classes must adhere to unequal terms. You cannot call opposite sex marriage by that term and allow civil unions that allow for all the same benefits conditions and responsibilities for same sex couples to be called anything less. Best put We do not believe in what you believe and that allows Us to view this through a clear legal lens as a matter of equity.
Here is the simplest and most efficient means by which to explain this. We have two groups of people that are citizens of the United States one group is against the sexual actions of men and women who choose same sex partners because of self imposed moral, political or religious reasons [of course combinations of these as well] the other group does not share these concepts of “sexual sin” or are agnostic on the subject because the activities of homosexual couples have little or no effect on their own lives.
In defence of the Constitution and the rights of individuals to seek happiness there is a glaring prima facie case for equal protection. The Moralists, the religious and the political who are either offended in real terms or for political or some other material gain would choose to block these rights and protections for same sex couples. This is their sovereign right to protest, however, We, Ourselves, and millions of Americans do not wish to see the rights of people abrogated for the satisfaction of any group a minority or a majority.
To be plain spoken in regard to a very complex subject We do not think homosexuality is a sin, nor is it a corruption of mind or Soul it is a different way of expressing love by people with a genetic predisposition to this end or a proclivity for gender preference fluidity, i.e., bisexuality. This path of discovery of one’s own sexuality does not offend Us in the least.
You have chosen your words poorly here. Slavery was a standard for centuries and that institution took rights and opportunities from people and it has been abolished on most of Terra. We are of enough Open Minds that We can divorce Ourselves from the notions of normal in an effort to determine what is Protected. The same jurisprudential logic allows Us to make clear that all churches can purchase a stake in public policy and a seat at the table of government if they give up their tax exempt status. “Pay taxes and play ball,” as Cavalor would say. This is how We view the issue of gay marriage but you do not have the right to deny rights to people because you are offended at their legal participation in society. All those other sexual behaviours you mention are illegal for clear purposes chief among them is the lack of one component of the sexual union to consent—polygamy also is a consent issue because the presentation of equity cannot be divided across multiple marriages which is why there is a legal doctrine that bigamy is illegal.
21. Pain | June 5th, 2008 at 10:45 am
17. Kahn | June 4th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
The people you refer to as “liberals” as if that is a perjorative term are not concerned about slippery slopes because We are not forced to adhere to any rigid dogma that even if it is found to flawed can change no swifter than a glacier on a millennial journey to the sea. It is your control of society that you fear being stripped away and We, Ourselves, understand that to many Humans change is a difficult thing to accept as all of you are not as reasoning and adaptable as “liberals.”
18. js | June 4th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Ahh We understand as long as sodomy is enjoyed by straight white males, who are the great bulk of polygamists in the United States wioth their mulitple wives and live births occur from these unions [more white babies!] then you are willing to bend your moralist worldview to accord these people.
19. js | June 4th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
If you only cared as much about what happens to people on Terra as you do about Souls after Death you would be a bit more open to reason. But you are hidebound by your religious and political views and your own hangups regarding what is acceptable sexual behaviour. Free country; no harm no foul. For the purposes of informing the reason all those slippery slope relations are illegal is because most in those groups cannot consent to the sexual activity LEGALLY.
It is petty and ignorant to think that reasonable people are going to gasp in horror and actually imagine that judges would allow for any of those actions to become legal because two consenting adults want to get married. You fear gay marriage only because you feel it cheapens your own Biblical view of male female marriage and for no other reason.
Qu’ul cuda praedex nihil!
22. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am
State Codes and the US Code trumps the Bible every time in matters of Law on Terra in America. How many of you blokes would have your lawyer use only Biblical passages as defense if you were on trial for murder?
[crickets chirping]
[/crickets chirping]
23. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Pain + Cavlor
Marriage is a bond to keep a man and woman together so they can build families,
Why do you feel gays, that can’t reproduce, need to participate in these traditional ceremonies that are for the most part religious, done in churches.
If church and state is the issue, it seems as the libs wanna force their homosexual agenda on the churches across are country.
24. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
A year or two from now, Pain and Cavlor will be trying to make a cases for some cat-rammers who wanna get serious, do the right thing and tie the knot.
25. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 5th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
23. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 11:46 am
For the same reason that widows and widowers who meet late in life and fall in love do. This is only a church state issue to those who wish for the church to dictate to the state. This is the conundrum with free societies you will never be able to satisfy those who put their religious beliefs ahead of the rights of men. I doubt if you believe men but I have great faith in many things but i do not subscribe to any belief that the love of two consenting adults should be denied because it offends the religious sensibilities of other people who do not even live in the same region of the country!
I would ask you who is more moral in the eys of the Almighty who created the Universe two homosexual men committed to each other who live their Faith and serve their community in the soup kitchen or by volunteering to create a garden for the elderly or a man and a woman married with three children who go to church every Sunday smoke crack in front of their kids and beat them when they cannot get high? Who among you could look at those men and say they were not living the Christian virtue without casting your eyes downward?
26. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 5th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
24. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
This reveals your own hangups with sexuality and nothing less.
I would never advocate the harm of animals in this way and I feel most comfortable speaking for Pain in this way as well. Animals have no ability to consent. This is a matter of law not a matter of sex. But what should I expect from a nation of people so detached from reason and juvenile about intercourse, verbal, or otherwise?
27. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Cavlor-
This issue is really about big government forcing its way into churches.
There is reasons people will take your side even if they don’t support the idea. Judges and Lawyers will be bringing revenue to courts, selling licenses, do divorces, ect… ect…
I think the courts are bogged down and very slow as it is.
Cavlor this is liberalism trying to force its way into everyones life, even though the majority doesn’t want it.
You guys want too much control, the liberals views on the 2nd Amendment, really show this exact same view, you want all the control.
28. Jeremiah | June 5th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
This is only a church state issue to those who wish for the church to dictate to the state.–Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J.
Wrong again, Cav, it’s a matter of the State upholding what is ‘right’.
To many, such as you, it doesn’t matter what ‘right’ is, because you have no understanding of what right is, in essence, people just go around with their heads spinning, and the demons have done taken hold trembling with overwhelming fear….knowing… that there is a God who has power over them. They begged Jesus to leave them alone and He says ‘GO!’ and return no more.
Get right with God and the demons have no power to tempt, no power to make you fear for God’s hedge of protection is about you.
And is what America must do by telling the Supreme Court to step down from their pulpit of Tyranny and uphold Holiness in marriage between one man and one woman
29. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 5th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
27. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
You made me laugh! Many a Southern white preacher said the same things you say now in 1966 and would include that the decision that blacks and white would lead to the end of the “white race,” the destruction Christian Church and the eventual downfall of America into the hands of Soviet Marxist-Leninism. It seems that none of those things happened either.
And exactly other than the fact that you are angered or upset or offended that two gay people can get married how does this ruling affect you? And by that I mean you personally? As a member of the bar in my nation state if you can show harm real harm not just insult or “feelings being hurt” then you may petition for redress as is true in the USA.
28. Jeremiah | June 5th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
In your opinion, based upon your rather reactionary and theocratic worldview. I learned very early in dealing with people that it is better to drink until intoxicated and wake up with a headache in the morning than to try to debate reasonably with a zealot.
There is no holiness in humanity, only humanity in human kindness my friend.
30. Pain | June 5th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
All of this is moot.
As soon as the first couple is married in California on June 17, 2008 a petition will be made to the SCOTUS for recognition of gay marriage under full faith and credit clause which will make all anti-same sex marriage amendments unconstitutional, de facto and de jure.
Another Culture War battle lost by the religious right.
31. Jeremiah | June 5th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
There is no holiness in humanity, only humanity in human kindness my friend.–Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J
True, there is no holiness in humanity, as was evidenced when they crucified Our Lord and Savior at Calvary which is the only place that Holiness and True kindness can be found.
No greater love hath any man, than the one who lay down his life for his friends.
32. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Jeremiah-
I think the communists, now call themselves democrats.
In #30 Pain is pretty confident that Darkness, evil and the homosexual agenda will prevail.
33. Some Assembly Required | June 5th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
How many lives have been lost to this ‘homosexual agenda’? How many of your rights have been violated? When we the last time you were ridiculed for not being a homosexual?
Before you answer my first question, the number of men/women who have died of AIDS or HIV is not an acceptable argument.
Cheers
34. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Cavlor-
Your language skills, and legal knowledge is far superior to mine, you said your a lawyer or something. Your propaganda seems to be of a higher quality than most of the American hating, leftists that deposit, terrible ideas such as gay marriage, gun bans, abortion, excuses for high taxes.
You are like the Joseph Goebels of the DNC with legal terms to dazzle and amaze as you push in deep some REAL big government ideas.
But there is right and their is wrong.
If you plan is flying a Rainbow Flag over the White House, your not going to suceed. We are going to fight, hopefully such a bad plan will cost democrats seats in the House, Senate, and the White House.
35. Jeremiah | June 5th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
32. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
You know, Eric, Pain’s probably right. Pain’s mentality is the same mentality that prevails in America today…the few of us who actually care being the exception. I foresee a lot of bad things happening before it gets better….the Left-wing lies and propaganda has numbed the peoples minds to the reality of what is happening to America. People are holding on to their riches and fame like tree bark hugging onto a tree - and that’s funny, they’ve got it all thinking Obama will give them “more” and “more” and “more” … when he will take it all, every last penny’s worth.
Just think, what are hunters who love the outdoors (including myself) going to do when Obama comes to take their guns?
What are they going to do whenever Obama raises their taxes hiking the national debt into the hundreds of trillions$ to fund for illegal aliens, SCHIP, embryonic stem-cell research (taking the little babies and ripping them apart get what they want and then throw their little dead bodies into raging furnace). And funding for the hyped up rhetoric known as “global warming.” What are the elderly going to do whenever they legalize euthanasia? And much, much more…
Yes, I’m afraid there’s going to be a lot that we’ve never seen before in our lives take place, everything will be legalized, literally everything…everything goes, until …. Christians one day will rise and proclaim with one voice…..’He is still worthy!’
***************
How is the weather up your way, Eric?
We’ve been having some nice weather here lately…..hay and lemonade weather.
God bless! :)
36. Jeremiah | June 5th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
I learned very early in dealing with people that it is better to drink until intoxicated and wake up with a headacheCavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J
My brother is the same way, of course, he has a lot of learning to do, yet. And he will learn that life’s troubles are miniscule in comparison to the problems that alcoholism will bring him later on.
It’s really a pity….my heart is so saddened to see him destroy himself this way…they other night he drank so much that he got sick….when he got home he couldn’t even get the door open.
I talk and I talk, but nothing will suffice.
All I can do now is give it to the Lord in prayer.
37. js | June 5th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
21. Pain | June 5th, 2008 at 10:45 am
yup, that was you, waaay up there, actilng like the stooge you are…is that how you do it? while your defending your right to buggar some poor fella, you tell him he has a good soul? your rot, from the inside out ya are, your mind is the sewer of demons will, spinning out of control, with imaginations of grandeur spinning in your head….while in reality, your halfwitted comments only prove that your are about as ignorant as the poor, drug addicted victim you buggarize….
38. js | June 5th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
these is nothing good or clean, nothing healthy, nothing wholesome, is sodomy…its a filthy, disgusting act, and our society has allowed it to hide behind a sanitized word called homosexuality…in truth, the act is the cause of early death for millions of human beings…and it causes disgusting diseases and illnesses to those who chose to do it…
stop lying about it, all it takes in the truth, the truth will set you free
39. js | June 5th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
29. Cavalor E
but the weight of the truth is the burden you evade talking about isnt it? in reality, our nation fought hard to stem racism, and harder to resist communism…yet..you pander the truth about it filled with omission and manipulation that makes the truth about what americans did in the 50s and the 60s fit a lie that you are pandering here…the squalid hate of racists was a well known factor in those days…even the black men are guilty of it…but its a far, far step from saying civils rights in society between the black and the white race is equal to the 1.5% of our population that engages in deviant sexual conduct…
no…you didnt pull my leg…all you did was expose the weak mind you have when you create a lie to present us with…you dont even rise the defend the roots of society that created you, and gave you what little intelligence you display here…instead, your confused mind is on a crusade that will destroy it….because of your own ignorance of what the truth really is.
40. js | June 5th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
“But there is right and their is wrong.”
This is the simple truth. You cant add to it, and you cant take away from it.
41. js | June 5th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
26. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 5th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
“This reveals your own hangups with sexuality and nothing less. ”
****************
that is pretty cheap
life is so much more than that
when sexuality consumes a person so much that they risk thier very lives for it, then it is not something to defend, but an addiction that kills the body and the soul of the actor…..
go ahead…educate yourself…fill your mind with the truth about sodomy…every filthy detail….every disease…every injury….every infection….and every death that it causes…and see if your sexuality really matters that much….
if sex is the only statement your life is making, then you are already dead.
me…i am going to live in the real world…a world that sometimes i dont like…sometimes is hard…but with the knowledge that i am living…for life…and not for some addiction that will eventually kill me….and when i am old and my grandchildren are sitting on my lap…i will tell them the same disgusting truth…hoping that the Grace of God that He has shown to me will shine on them….
42. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Jeremiah-
weather is just starting to warm up,
You say-
“the few of us who actually care being the exception”
I think the dems will win on the East and West coast, but everything in between will be Republican. If I’m wrong and the democrats do have a big win, alot of unholy and satanic legislation will surely become the law of the land.
I was reading the Bible with my wife and
this verse jumped out at me, and it is about God’s wrath. It is Amos 2
3 I will destroy her ruler
and kill all her officials with him,”
says the LORD.
same verse, different version
3 and I will cut off the judge from the midst thereof, and will slay all the princes thereof with him, saith Jehovah
43. js | June 5th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
“In defence of the Constitution and the rights of individuals to seek happiness there is a glaring prima facie case for equal protection”
You should define the difference between sexual perversion and happiness while you are on that road….is it my right to buggar some ole boy as a pursuit of happiness under the constitution? absolutely not…our forefathers tarred and feathers sodomites and ran them out of town naked on a rail (a large 4×4)…the outright rejected any hint of sodomy as a qualified “pursuit of happiness”…then again…modern medicine has a cure for many of the injuries cause by sodomy….but its just as filthy today as it was in the mid 1700s…..pursuit of happiness….does that mean that i have the right to shoot someone in the head for acting stupid because that make me happy? even if they agree they are stupid….and give me permission to shoot them in the head? NO@@!!! wake up people…the half witted defense of the truth is not going to change the truth…it is only going to cause our society to live in a lie….we are failing to uphold those truths our forefathers claimed for us…those truths that are self evident….the truth that is displayed in the laws of nature, and by natures God.
Our Father in heaven made us male and female. Our bodies are crated to be joined together, our minds are created to be joined together, and our lives are meant to be joined, one man and one woman, joined before God, which no man can divide….the woes of society are caused by dis-ease, those things that are wrong, and have no purpose in the light of day, selfism, selfish wants, selfish desires, and ego are the root of that dis-ease…and that, in a nut shell, is homosexuality.
44. Jeremiah | June 6th, 2008 at 1:19 am
Eric T,
I had a rather long reply to you … but something happened and the post was eaten….I’ll try again tomorrow.
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46. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 6th, 2008 at 10:50 am
34. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
And what is right and wrong to you Eric because of your religion or your politics does not require that the rights of other people should be infringed upon. Now note that I say rights there not sensibilities or feelings or even fearful notions about one’s own sexuality. To me without the burden of religion I am able to apply reason to the Law and see that all people who are in a given class through legal actions should be treated by the same standard.
I feel that every person has a legal right to keep and bear arms and I think that the size of government matters less than the perfomance of government for its poorest and weakest citizens. You have bought into a doctrinal ideology of religion mixed with conservative politics that is dead at the roots and stiff at the trunk. It may shade you today but once the difficult times come you will note that the tree when leaned on falls quite easily.
I would ask how are you affected economically or even physically by the gay marriage ruling? If you are a married man in a monogamous relationship then there is likely no physical harm of disease since adultery is a sin taking that off the table. And if you are single and a Christian then you are not engaging in sex before marriage and there you go again. Have the appropriate tests and conversations with your fiancee then before going any further down the road to marriage as a protection.
Similar ideas play a role in the so called economic damage gay marriage would have. I dount if that numbber could match the cost of what opposite sex divorce has cost the US economy in real dollars over the past decade. There likely will not be more than three or four hundred thousand gay couples marriaed in America at any given time even if the law was a national one how this could compete with the 70 million+ married couples.
This isn’t some insurrection that is designed to “destroy the Christian way of life” or raise the Gay pride flag above the White House because Christians do that well enough on their own and committed gay people just want their rights to be respected under the law not the right to force you to watch them having sex. Eric it is only a political matter in that it offends your religious and political masters who use it to profit from you by having you vote against your actual interests in fear of going to Hell.
47. Pain | June 6th, 2008 at 10:59 am
35. Jeremiah | June 5th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
The facts are more of your fellow Americans would applaud Our respect for their civil liberties than your disdain for their legal actions and desire to pursue happiness under the law. The 1st amendment protects your right to speak freely of your religion and its beliefs as long as no one else’s rights are denied because of it. The very expression of self ex terrestria that you are so fond of appealing to is made possible by the same respect of the law that required gay men and lesbians to marry. Your right to believe in the church of your choice and their right to be recognized under the law as married are built upon the same rock.
Fortunately, We, Ourselves, are able to applaud the Founding Fathers for realizing that the rights of people would have to protected from zealots who would force theocracy down the throats of the weak minded and fear filled for many centuries after their deaths.
The tripe you trot out and pour over these digital pages is as false as a hairpiece on a televangelist every several morsel of it for it is piety of the worst order the type that is steeped and boiled in hatred of anyone who dares disagree that your deity is more powerful than all others. What you present is worse than so called Islamofascism because it takes a beautiful message and smears it with the hate filled rhetoric of the ignorant and the willful. You are mired in stupidity, want and anger and We pity you deeply and your crazed braying at the sky for the applause of the similarly deranged.
48. Pain | June 6th, 2008 at 11:10 am
37. js | June 5th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
You have not the mental faculties to do this in any manner other than berating Us and calling names so this is a waste of even Our broad and wide ranging resources.
38. js | June 5th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
There is nothing wholesome in youth pastors raping little girls in their churches either but We see no evidence of your poorly educated rantings on that topic. Our point is anyone can sit in a chair and act like they are going along with your little religious program but it takes true character to live the life you all say is the path to salvation. many of you are so indoctrinated that you cannot spot a liar that wishes to do your children harm because you wish to believe that all who speak the words and look like you are to be trusted. This is foolishness.
49. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 6th, 2008 at 11:24 am
39. js | June 5th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Your country did eventually come around but after many public embarassments in the North and South in the 1950s and 1960s. The resistance to change was far greater then because white America did not think it could actually lose its control over, well everything. Who in America was more of a citizen and respected as such and their word over all others than a white man in 1950?
The greater majority of people in the South felt that blacks eating in a diner beside whites or a white girl dating a black teenager were deviant social behaviour in that generation immediately following World War 2. The true power of the Constitution is that the size of the group of people whose rights have been violated matters not. It could be one man who has had his guns seized and his property violate like Randy Weaver or an entire class like the group of Human Beings colloquially called black in the age after Brown v Board.
And really js, how can you possibly make a statement that your society gave rise to me? I was here long before your society!
50. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 6th, 2008 at 11:26 am
43. js | June 5th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
This is just propagandist drivel.
51. Eric T | June 6th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Cavlor-
Equal treatment, and comparing it to the civil rights struggle that African Americans faced in the 1960’s is a nice way to try and force it in. But there is no violation of civil rights because marriage is between a man and a woman, has been for thousands of years.
Equal treatment is what they have now, if they want to marry, like everyone has been now for centuries they can. A man marries a woman, or a woman marries a man.
Why the urgency to change this?
52. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 6th, 2008 at 11:33 am
51. Eric T | June 6th, 2008 at 11:28 am
So too had the rights of the slave master over the life of the slave, for thousands of years been accepted. Thus, I demand of you, what is your point? I sthere some nugget of law that I have missed or is your argument always going to be that your religious sensitivities have been trod upon?
There is no urgency there is only jurisprudential inertia that is require when civil rights are violated and secondary classes are created to block access to those rights. As long as you take the “Bull ” Connor path of “we’ve always done it this way regarding Negroes in the past” there can be no common ground found here.
53. js | June 6th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
you two remind me of peat and repeat…the two stooges who are buggarizing each other hoping that the truth will go away….nothing you have posted really amounts to a hill of beans….yet you toss your idiocy back and forth like you were scholars…except your discussion is missing the core facts…the very truth that stooges and idiots tend to ignore…and thats where you join the ranks of the ignorant, incapable of dealing with the truth….as you have adequately displayed right here on this blog…wearing blinders to the facts, that cant be discarded, that you cant acknowledge because then all your rhetoric and flim flam would be totally worthless….
then you pull right back up to the dumbshit counter again, and try to demean people who stand on facts defending tradition against the very immoral behavior you are defending with rhetoric about racial discrimination….you are truely a POS without any moral compass to guide you CE…tell us, did you catch one of those deadly, incurrable diseases…is that why you are defending the mental midgitry called sodomy with lies and deception? while you buggarize your buddy pain, do you give him consent forms and releases so you dont get sues for giving him the same incurrable death sentence you already have? tell us, whats the comparison here….sodomy and sexual reproduction….we know the human body was made for sexual reproduction…and we knew it thousands of years ago…and we stand on that fact as tradition….just as sodomy, as tradition, was recognized as a filthy, disease ridden, injury causing death trap for thousands of year, just as it is today, what are you doing to tell the WHOLE TRUTH about it??? absolutely nothing…you are guilty…of lying…right here…when it comes down to brass tacks…sodomy is, and always will be deviant sexual behavior….and the addition to deviant sexual behavior…is the same as other deviant sexual behaviors….sexual perversions…sexual perversions that are conditions in which sexual excitement or orgasm is associated with acts or imagery that are considered unusual and unnatural to the human body…and its associated mental deviant behavior that causes people to act upon such deviance…its an illness…out right sick it is…sodomizing another person is actually a sick, filthy behavior….there is nothing stimulating about the poop shoot….yup…thats what it is….the exit…the door to disgard waste from the human body….not a sexual thing at all….but poop…filthy dirty stinky poop…
thats what you are defending? you certainly qualify, both you and your buggar buddy…..as mental midgets…..its true.
54. Eric T | June 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
js-
I’ve actually heard many Black Preachers who are really offended by the way they try and equate the case for gay marriage, with the cases for Civil Rights.
55. Pain | June 6th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
53. js | June 6th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
So to summarise, js what you are telling Us is that you are OK with lesbians?
56. Pain | June 6th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
54. Eric T | June 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Of course they are Eric it keeps their collection plates full!
57. Republican Killer | June 6th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
You can‘t take a civil rights issue and put it up to a vote. Because if the elected officials stand up for what‘s right and do what‘s right for civil rights, then there is no problem. You simply cannot put a civil rights issue on the general ballot in a state and let people vote on it because if do you that, in the southern states you can bet, they would have voted to continue slavery.
Second, love is bigger than government. Who the hell is government to tell people who someone can fall in love with? I think it‘s absurd that fact it‘s even being debated in 2008.
Lastly, we can solve the problem simply. Government only acknowledges civil unions then you don‘t have to put your sex down. Let the churches acknowledge marriage. They are the private sectors. If they don‘t want to acknowledge it, they have every right to do so. How on earth can we even entertain the fact that government should have the ability to tell you as an individual who you can fall in love with? Ridiculous, totally utterly STUPID!!! Which is another reason why Conservatives are tottaly and utterly STUPID! Wow 2008 is going to be one BLUE MONTH!!!!
58. js | June 6th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
aye
yur ryte eric
and pain, you are just as ignorant as you were before you read my posts….and you really have no idea what i think….you proved it once again by opening your fat mouth and proving what a fool you can be!!
so tell us Rk, how is it happening in Cali, if you cant do it…its absolutely certain that the issue is on the ballot, just like it was eight years (?) ago when 70% of the citizens of california told the sodomites NO…..
and to think you justify “love” as the answer to all…justified over governance of every sort…that is, until you find someone who loves your money enough to take it from you….with a gun….or some sexual deviant that figures your 12 year old daugther is fair game to fulfill his love of children…eh? and last, but not least, is the ignorance that government can sanction unions of any sort…between sexually deviant partners….and justify it by lying about what it really is….no…two boys or two girls who are sexually deviant have no rights to equal standing with normal famillies….they drain society and societies ability to support future generations with a lie….society and governments have no right nor duty to uphold similar or equal status to people because they dont know right from wrong in the sack….
send em off to a lunybin….cause they gotta be crazy to adhere to that lifestyle after they know full well that it will end up killing them…..
59. Republican Killer | June 6th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
“send em off to a lunybin….cause they gotta be crazy to adhere to that lifestyle after they know full well that it will end up killing them” First off anyone who thinks like this, should be nutured, so as not to spread this kind of ignorance to future generations, and second should be sent a Insane Asylum!!!
60. Jeremiah | June 6th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
42. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Eric,
To try my response to you again…to try, try again, we must.
You make some good points, as I think that is what will take place after the degeneration of society has gone so far.
However, at the present moment, I see a couple barriers that are hindering us from moving forward as much as we would like.
The way I see it, personally, it has a great more to do with people who proclaim themselves as Christians, and not saying that as a “discouragment” or a “put down”. Our rights are still intact, and a number of ways we can use those rights to the fullest of our potential, if people would only put the time and effort into becoming interested in putting their will into action. Again, not saying that as being critical, because there are many who sacrifice their time and talents for the Lord i,e. - We have Sunday School teachers, Christian public school teachers, Christian laborers, Counsellors, Missionary’s, Christian Doctors, Christian Emergency personnel, Pastors, on and on the list goes, and are all rights that we still have to make a difference and turn the tide back against the degeneration that besets us.
Here’s my point in general though, I guess you could say the more negative side of the situation….where we’ve gone wrong, is, where people, those who proclaim as “Christians” have not focused their sights, and haven’t been ready to counter the Judges and their forcing their sick rulings on the majority of America. Is what I’m saying, is, whenever one person or five, whichever the case may be, makes a ruling that goes against the Will of the People…not only should the people of that particular state in general have to fend for themselves in countering the ruling…..All Christians in every state should take notice whenever a particular state makes a ruling that is contrary to the Constitution and in their overstepping their powers to rule in such a case….If the majority of America doesn’t want homosexual marriage, then every state should really be hammering away at California, Massachusetts, and New York from what I understand has already recognized civil unions, which permits two women and one man, or three homosexuals and one woman to marry…they’re essentially allowing the perversion that is filthy sodomites.
That is where America has went wrong, they just sit back and don’t think whenever a state or states make rulings that permit filth into our society…..they should be there on the spot whenever any judge or judges makes a ruling thinking they are the arbiters of all “civil law” in America…..they should be cracking down hard.
Another thing is, is we’ve got a larger percentage of the population who aren’t Christians, and they are more apt to vote for the candidate who will ensure they get “free” benefits of any sort they can find - disability, welfare, food stamps etc, etc. Too, this would hold true even with many of the more wealthy and well-off of society, they in which they get what is considered to be an “education” in many of our colleges, when all it is is liberal hogwash being forced down their throats, and their primary purpose for many of them being in college is to get drunk, do drugs, have sex and party all the time, but not all of them, just most of them, and they want to ensure that they will get to continue their brainwashed lifestyles into the future…..so, they scream “Obama” which will lead them on the road to Hell fire.
Those are the two most major prolems I see, but for right now, we need to concentrate on our right while we still have them and Obama hasn’t taken them.
We need to concentrate on three things, on Speaking out and making our voice heard, Praying is critical, and voting, and if the people don’t want to do these things, and let the country continue to degenerate into the pit, then, as you’ve mentioned……
Then I think is when God will call upon His people, to pour out His wrath, just as Joshua did in his day, conquering untold numbers of people….many most likely won’t make it, but the ones who do I’m sure they’ll say ….. ‘No more, shall liberalism be a thorn in our side…and the Holy Spirit will begin to work healing and mending the broken pieces…..making peace once more.
Jesus may come before then though….we never know, you know?
God bless!
:)
61. js | June 6th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
“First off anyone who thinks like this, should be nutured, so as not to spread this kind of ignorance to future generations, and second should be sent a Insane Asylum!!!”
what do you mean, first off? you dropn in on the back end of a butt kickin, and you think your first in line for what? to let your lips flap in the wind about some mediocre idea your simple mind spits out….sure….like rydin the donkey eh? your the money and his back and ya got naught but stupid things to say….are you the one they are buggerin? did they get cha to sign the release first so ya dont sue thier honey butts for giving ya an incurable disease?
62. Republican Killer | June 7th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
you dropn in on the back end of a butt kickin, and you think your first in line for what? to let your lips flap in the wind about some mediocre idea your simple mind spits out….sure….like rydin the donkey eh? your the money and his back and ya got naught but stupid things to say….are you the one they are buggerin? did they get cha to sign the release first so ya dont sue thier honey butts for giving ya an incurable disease?
If someone could please tell me what in the F**K this asshole’ is saying? If that comment doesn’t SCREAM STUPID REDNECK, nothing will!!!
READ A BOOK YOU DUMB HICK!!
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