VP Speculations…
June 5th, 2008 at 12:34pm Matt Margolis
So… the question of the day, who should McCain pick as his running mate, and who should Obama pick as his?
UPDATE, by Mark Noonan: Seems that one of Obama’s VP researchers - former Fannie Mae chief Jim Johnson - has some problems…Byron York over at NRO stating that an oversight report indicates mismanagement when Johnson was in charge, and that the size of his salary was hidden from the public. Change you can believe in? Only if you believe in the Tooth Fairy.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008
146 Comments
1. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Obama should pick Jesse or AL, we know his campaign and the media are going to call McCain a racist, just like Hillary was accused of racism, Jesse and AL are the real pros at making race an issue.
2. hermie | June 5th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Obama will not pick Hillary. Let’s face it, the MSM has spent so much time trashing her and Bubba, that they’d get severe whiplash writing puff pieces about them during the general election.
Hillary will be paid off by the Obama team by
helping her retire her campaign debt. She’ll then settle down into the Senate Leadership role after Teddy leaves office and Reid is deposed.
I honestly believe the Obama team thinks it is a shoo in to win the Presidency and doesn’t have to play it safe with a VP selection. Look for these three to be mentioned: Webb, Boxer or Brown.
McCain could choose Palin, but he’s in a worse spot than Obama, as the Dems no longer have a significant Right or Center to try to accomodate.
3. OhioOrrin | June 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
McCain - Condi (double trump).
Obama - Bill Richardson 4 the latino vote.
4. hermie | June 5th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
But with the party faithful and Hillary supporters, Richardson has become a turncoat, and no longer trustworthy.
Condi needs to run for Congress to show that she can draw significant votes, before attempting to be VP.
5. DM | June 5th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
What?!?!? No tooth fairy???
6. se7en | June 5th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
McCain - Romney is the only way I’d vote for McCain.
Obama - Whoever - I really don’t care.
7. Robin Naismith Green | June 5th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
1. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Ha, ha, ha.
Very funny.
Enjoy being the minority for the next twenty years in Congress. How many pro choice judges can be run through the Congress in 20 years? Wow enough for your grandchildren to waste their lives fighting this same old battle.
On to what’s really important VP picks. I’m leaning Tim Kaine for Obama and it appears Romney is McCain’s only choice.
3. OhioOrrin | June 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Condi costs McCain Indy voters in the Northeast who are anti-Bush and anti-War. Obama can win New Mexico without Richardson on the ticket and it shouldn’t be in play.
CBS News Poll has Obama out to a blazing early lead 48-42 [10 undec] and expect another 3 to 5 % bump for BO after Hillaryfest! ‘08 tomorrow.
8. Retired Spook | June 5th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
I agree with Hermie; Sarah Palin, the Governor of Alaska would be an excellent choice. A huge number of Hillary voters have already said they’ll vote for McCain. Governor Palin would further enhance the appeal to that group of disenchanted moderate Dem women. Plus, she’s just a neat lady.
If McCain decides to play it safe and go with another white male, he could do a lot worse than Indiana Congressman Mike Pence or Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal.
9. Hal | June 5th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Mark, seeing’s how your support for the worst president in history makes you equally responsible for sending thousands of our soldiers to their unnecessary deaths, which is something you can’t change, I dunno why you’d bother to make any more judgements one way or another.
10. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Hal,
Why ties your shoes in the morning?
Your lack of support to liberate oppressed men, women and children from the grips of tyranny and radical Islam, resulted in tens of thousands of deaths of our global neighbors, which is something you can not change. I don’t know why you’d even bother to breathe.
11. Robin Naismith Green | June 5th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Johnson’s FannieMae compensation in 1998??? Okay fine it was theft. Johnson’s as rotten as a maggoty floating corpse in the Mississippi in July. Happy now give us [my blog or any other blog] access to the White House Energy meeting minutes.
Doesn’t change a thing in the great scheme of the elction any more than Charlie Black still being on the Mccain payroll or Carly Fiorina who drove HP into the ground run ning McCain’s RNC Victory campaign. Do you guys really want to play this game??? Does the GOP and its D-list operatives really think they can make the Democrats out to be more corrupt than the Republicans? Good luck with that pal. Where are Cindy McCain’s tax records again??
I thought so smart guy.
12. Robin Naismith Green | June 5th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
10. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Get some velcro for yourself pal.
Iraq was a secular Ba’athist state the only radical Islam really doign any “gripping” was in the “no fly zones” created by the Unirted States in 1991 where Saddam Hussein and the Ba’athists had little control.
13. HarkeysBar | June 5th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
McCain, Jindal
Obama, Richardson
Update: It seems McCain’s campaign manager has done business with Iran’s regime and he also had an active Hezbollah supporter on his staff before letting him go about a month ago.
McCain senior adviser and GOP uber-lobbyist Charlie Black’s firm represented CNOOC, the Chinese national oil conglomerate, which also happens to have business dealings with Iran. Meanwhile, the Obama campaign notes that John McCain failed to support Iran sanctions legislation sponsored by Obama in 2007, a bill currently rumored to be “on hold” by Alabama Republican, Richard Shelby.
14. CanadianObserver | June 5th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Obama/Feingold
Obama/Edwards
Obama/Mickey Mouse
Barack Obama will be your next president regardless of who he picks as his VP. Suck it up.
15. SEW | June 5th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Hal, don’t forget about evil Exxon for killing millions by supplying gasoline for their death trap automobiles. John Edwards as AG will be able to help those little people killed by Exxon and put the evildoers out of business at the same time. And the wealthy auto owners will go without fuel.
And Hal, you are exhaling CO2! And destroying the environment, killing innocent polar bears,destroying the ice cap, and YOU are equally responsible!
16. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
“Where are Cindy McCain’s tax records again??” - Robin
They’ve been released. Try and keep up.
“Iraq was a secular Ba’athist state….” - Robin
Yes, we’re all aware what utopia Iraq was under Saddam. I think you’re just jealous because you didn’t get any quality time with Usay.
17. Karl Rove | June 5th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Neocon,
You really don’t do the neoconservative movement any favors. Please, for the sake of all of us, keep your mouth shut.
That is an order.
18. OhioOrrin | June 5th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
neocon - at least usay went down fighting…unlike daddy, Sodom al spiderhole.
“aint no way u come fm my loins, boy!”
19. OhioOrrin | June 5th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
CO - hold 4 flash traffic…
…the swifties r loading ammo & fueling the engines on another mission (to be) accomplished up the river ear bama.
20. Casper | June 5th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
OhioOrrin,
I think Obama-Richardson would be a great ticket. However, if McCain picked Condi, it would be the kiss of death. Not because Condi would do a ad job, but because it would tie McCain to Bush on an even higher level.
21. Robin Naismith Green | June 5th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
16. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Dealing with bloggers when you get paid to run a shop full of professional journalists is like trying to get a bunch of weekend golfers to understand the game the guys on the PGA Tour are playing. Same gear different game. I’ll just assume neocon that you are both just stupid and arrogant so this will be easy.
Cindy McCain’s income was released two pages of a 1040 from 2006 showing the totals that she earned but not the sources from which that income was generated. Now as long as I have been in this business the only reason the wife of a politician doesn’t want someone to know where their money comes from is because it is in conflict with the political talking points of their spouse.
Investments in nations that would cast a harsh light on Senator John Mccain are almost certainly the case and you should be hearing stories leaked by the Mccain campaign about divestment of these holdings before the 4 July holiday.
And if you aren’t smart enough to make a clearer headed statement about Iraq [a comment about the presence of Moqtada al Sadr in Baghdad while Hussein was in powwer would have been an informed counter or even the reach of saying that Ayatollah al Sistani was close to Iran even though Saddam did not control this reagion would have at least made it SEEM like you had half a brain but, sadly, no] stay out of issue about which your patriotism blinds you to the facts. If you want to be a cheerleader put on a clean skirt and grab some pom poms and go cheer for Permian on friday night. In politics now in this sort of campaign with so much at stake for the most powerful nation on Terra your kind are as extinct as T Rex.
22. William Teach | June 5th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
I like Kay Bailey Hutchinson or Sarah Palin for McCain, particularly Palin. Jindal is a good choice, too.
For Obama, is there anyone out there he can pick that won’t make him look even less qualified then he is? Heck, even John Kerry was more qualified.
23. Robin Naismith Green | June 5th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
22. William Teach | June 5th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
KBH is in very poor health and Palin has no foreign policy credentials. Either would cost McCain the elction anyhoot.
24. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Robin,
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Do you have any original thought? Anything? Or is it the digest-regurgitate mode for you.
And unlike you, I find it tedious and elementary to continue to debate 6 year old talking points. Are you late to the party? Or just that mentally immature?
25. David B. Schmidt | June 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
I would go with Palin for McCain. Jindal needs more time (say 4 years) to be ready for a run. I am waiting for all these “town halls” between the two as Obama will “swift boat” himself–he look quick on the way without help from anyone.
BTW, Robin–maybe you should ask one of those professionals where the spell checker is or did that slip your mind thinking about golf?
26. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Robin,
Could you please list for me Barack Obamas foreign policy credentials.
And “anyhoot”?
Are you from Appalacia? Do you cling to your Bible?
27. Robin Naismith Green | June 5th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
24. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Thanks for playing.
Who’s next?
Oh you’re still there . . .
Anyhoot is perfectly acceptable in Riverside, CA where I was born and yet no longer live. Google Inland Empire for more info . . . And that would be Appalachia and I’m a non clinger to Bibles or guns but I will defend your right to cling to either with a pen all day long.
28. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
I am still waiting for Obamas foreign policy credentials. Wouldn’t that be refreshing to debate, rather than than the 4-6 year old propaganda you spew daily? Of course it could be a short debate.
How about it? It would be kind of fun, right?
29. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Riverside?
Explains a lot.
30. Rich | June 5th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Neocon- I think Obama is head of some commission on Afghanistan. That would be considered foreign policy experience. I don’t think obama has made any meetings though, so maybe not. Oh but did you know he has travelled abroad?
31. bongoman | June 5th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Neocon:
Oh, so that’s why we’re in Iraq? Nothing to do with permanent bases? Your naivety is astounding.
32. bongoman | June 5th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
And of course to help our Iraqi friends, we need to worlds biggest embassy, 50 bases, control of Iraqi air space and immunity for all American contractors from Iraqi law. Purple fingers and all that…
33. CanadianObserver | June 5th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
It really is sad, and a little funny at the same time, to see those of you who oppose the idea of Obama as leader of the free world flounder aimlessly around, trying your darndest to find any type of manure to fling in his direction and being so unsuccessful.
34. Rich | June 5th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Hey whats up with that bastard Markos of Dailykos making fun of McCain’s teeth? Doesn’t he know McCain’s teeth were broken out of his mouth when he was a prisoner of war? What a piece of crap. This should be talked about more so people can see what type of human scum we are dealing with. There have been some threads defending Mccain, but the post in the threads have pretty much continued to trash Mccain. They want to make fun of Mccain’s injuries, well we should amplify it… My pick for Vice President, David Petreaus
35. William Teach | June 5th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Um, Robin: you complain that Palin has no foreign policy experience. Guess what? Neither does Obama!
Funny how that works.
PS: living and traveling to foreign countries as a tourist does not count.
36. Robin Naismith Green | June 5th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
28. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Let’s do this.
Chair of the European Affairs Subcommittee, member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Co Sponsor of the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act S. 1033 [109], sponsor of the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007 S. 433 [110]. Not bad for a first term Senator.
37. Robin Naismith Green | June 5th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
25. David B. Schmidt | June 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Thks Dave u shld c sme of my nots to my stff. LOL
I have been accused of writing in Hebrew
38. Robin Naismith Green | June 5th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
34. Rich | June 5th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
He’s too strong a personality and contrast with McCain. Seeing those two standing together members of the GOP hierarchy would be wondering “Why didn’t we get this guy in the first place.” Second, he would make the ticket Iraq War squared.
39. Rich | June 5th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Haha Robin good one. Being a member on a committee in the Senate is kinda like staying at the Holiday Inn, big whoop. As far as the legislation you mentioned, trying to lose the war and open our borders to illegals doesn’t constitute foreign policy expertise in any way shape or form. I notice you did not mention the committee Obama is on regarding Afghanistan, is that because he has never shown up or did you just not realize he was on it?
P.S. Does Obama think Iran is still a threat today or has he already switched back to the idea Iran is a tiny country that we should just ignore? I can’t keep track of his positions because they seem to change depending on whom he is speaking to, air temperature, and the fullness of the moon.
40. Robin Naismith Green | June 5th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
39. Rich | June 5th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
So what constitutes John Mccain’s foreign policy credentials?
41. Some Assembly Required | June 5th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
34. Rich | June 5th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
You mean like Purple bandaids mocking the purple heart? Complaints about shameful acts coming from the republicans fall on deaf ears my friend. I’m not defending them, nor would I perpetuate them, I’m just saying nobody will take your party seriously if you keep crying foul after what you people have done. Similar to players who take dives in sports, eventually the refs just stop calling them against your opponent.
I do get a kick out of this whole experience thing. McCain’s been around, sure, but he’s gone back on some of his own proposed legislation. The man cannot make up his mind and changes with the majority. Its laughable how you all rally around him yet you’ll spout some non sense about liberals pampering to voters and doing whatever it takes to get elected. Did you pay attention during Obama’s rev wright speech? How about when he said no to the Gas Holiday. Every Economist agrees with him. McCain’s experience didn’t stop him from supporting a ridiculous political stunt. It is funny how that works.
All that and you didn’t care about experience when it came to GWB. It only matters now that the democratic party produce a candidate that you are intimidated by. Kerry and Gore were easy, now your running against a man whose already made history and has a movement behind him. You play your guns/abortion/homosexual cards and they don’t phase him or his supporters. You call him a Liberal, still nothing.
You’ll claim your winning in Iraq and he doesn’t understand foreign policy, we say it can’t get worse then Bush. You say Rezko and yet Obama’s numbers are still expected to go up another 5 points or so when Hilary concedes on Friday. Not a good time to be a right winger.
It’s not so much the changing thats the hard part, it’s the letting go. I wish you all the best in that struggle come November.
42. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
I heard in this list, General Petraus, that is a good idea, I thought Mike Huckabee and Sam Brownback had alot good ideas that focus on the Family and what is best for American Families.
Mitt Romney or Duncan Hunter or Ron Paul had some good ideas too.
43. HarkeysBar | June 5th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Please explain McCain’s foreign policy experience…He doesn’t have much.
“Hey whats up with that bastard Markos of Dailykos making fun of McCain’s teeth? Doesn’t he know McCain’s teeth were broken out of his mouth when he was a prisoner of war? What a piece of crap.”
Purple Heart band-aids. Earbama. Unbelievable how you forget your own parties actions.
44. Mike | June 5th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
How about Lt. Gov Michael Steele the African American from the state of Maryland?
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/MichaelSteele08/
45. Bob bobson | June 5th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Neocon -
Obama is fairly inexperienced, obviously. However, McCain has made it clear how dedicated he is to “stay the course”.
Do we, as Americans, want another 4 years of Bush foreign policy?
Or do we want change, which will easily be for the better?
46. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Yea,
I can’t think of where McCain may have gotten any foreign policy experience. More than 20 years in the Senate, POW and war hero, has traveled to Iraq more than any Senator, was one of the main advocators of the, now obviously successful, surge.
Other than that, I can’t think of anything.
What were those committees again? And what ground breaking legislation emanated from them?
Is that what passes for foreign policy experience in Riverside?
47. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
How do you assume “change” will be for the better when you don’t even qualify that change?????
Do you feel that we have spent too much blood and treasure bringing liberty to the millions of Iraqi’s? How much is too much? If you believe in spreading liberty and supporting human rights, then do you put a price tag on it? How much blood and treasure are you willing to expend to support the human rights of someone else?
McCain is hardly Bush, in fact they have been fierce rivals for over eight years. Do you not pay attention? Or do you just lap up the latest offering from your puppet-masters?
48. Some Assembly Required | June 5th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
42. Eric T | June 5th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Family Values and John McCain… Please, please, please, please make this an issue. How many wives has McCain had? Do you really think he has any right to dictate any type of morals in regards to family values to anyone?
But you know, it really would not surprise me if you keep pushing this. In fact, I would say you’ll probably say though Obama has only been married once, his wife has made anti-American comments so thats worse then getting divorced. Something that ridiculous. I normally only look forward to winter for the snowboarding, but this year it’s not the only thing.
Neocon, I respect and thank McCain for his service, but I fail to see how being a P.O.W. and a war hero gives anyone any kind of experience in foreign policy. It makes him a great patriot (excuses him from wearing a lapel pin) and a role model, but thats it. Now before you jump to Kerry, I thought the same thing about him. He served honorably in Vietnam but again it didn’t give him any experience in foreign policy.
49. Rich | June 5th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
I was going to answer Robin but she was rude and tried to answer a question with another question. Then neocon answered for me.
As far as some dumbass at the republican convention wearing a purple heart bandaid- screw them. That being said, some moron at a convention (or commenting anonomously on a blog) is very different than an actual political mover and shaker making fun of a war hero’s torture injuries on the front page of his website. Even some of the Dailykossers were pissed off and that says something. Of course our breed of Libs here on this site can’t condemn it.
SAR and HarkeyBar obviously never learned that rule that two wrongs don’t make a right. It is nice to see you defending ridicule of a P.O.W. because it lets the rest of us see what type of people you are.
P.S. Calling Obama Earbama because he has big ears is a little different than making fun of a handicap or an injury wouldn’t you say?
P.S.S.- I’m hardly intimidated by Obama. He has lost plenty of elections lately and that bump he’s going to get after hillary “drops out” will be temporary. Plus he still might not be the candidate. If you guys can’t tell Hillary has something up her sleeve than you must not be paying attention. There is something coming on the horizon that could hurt the Golden BOY badly and it has to do with his “ex” church. If it comes before denver than Hillary is in and im pretty sure we lose big. If it comes after…
50. Some Assembly Required | June 5th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
“Do you feel that we have spent too much blood and treasure bringing liberty to the millions of Iraqi’s?”
Ok, so I take it you’ve sold all your worldly possessions and have signed up for the military to help with the fight. No? Interesting.
Bringing liberty to millions is great, something I think should be done, but it cannot be forced. If it is forced it is no different than tyranny. Which is the problem we are having now.
You ask if we believe in supporting liberty and HUMAN RIGHTS, what about waterboarding or Rendition?
The middle east looks at us and sees nothing but hypocrisy. We want to give them a chance to vote yet our elections are shrouded in such controversy. We want to give them human rights yet we are slowly taking them from our own citizens, not noticeably, but if you step out of lock step you surely will notice them. We also commit torture ourselves.
You dare to call us puppet-masters… Wake up. The world is bigger then America. Scratch that, North America. We can no longer afford to pretend that it isn’t.
51. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
So putting the POW stuff aside then, the over 20 years experience in the Senate, being a staunch advocater of the now successful surge, and extensive travle to, and meetings with heeads of the ME means nothing?
52. Bob bobson | June 5th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Neocon -
1. McCain, one would assume, would have experience. But he has favored this war which has been falling in popularity and costing lives of our brave soldiers becuase of the false accounts of Saddam’s links to Al Queda and possesing WMDs. “How do you ask a man to be the last to die for a false cuase?”
2. The surge has helped, but we’re basically operating now at US postal speed. civil war engulfs Iraq as we attempt to keep the peace, but what can be done? We’re knee deep in it with no way out.
53. Matt Margolis | June 5th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
In the end I guess it doesn’t matter. John McCain is going to be the next President of the United States.
54. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
SAR,
I pay a hell of a lot of taxes and I don’t bitch and moan for what I don’t have. I gladly support whatever money it takes to liberate a people that are more deserving than you. Because they actually appreciate it.
I had two nephews in the theatre of Iraq and they have first hand accounts at how appreciative the Iraqis are of our efforts.
You don’t shit about the Iraqis and it’s insulting to my nephews that you pretend you do. People like you need to quit thinking that you know everything. Because you don’t.
55. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Bob,
YOU CAN’T BE FUCKING SERIOUS. ARE YOU TELLING US IRAQ IS IN A CIVIL WAR????
ARE YOU REALLY THAT FUCKING STUPID??
56. Some Assembly Required | June 5th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
#50. Rich | June 5th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Nice try to get self-righteous and play off the purple bandaid. If it was some random idiots, as frequent this blog, why did the republican party not put and end to it? Why were they passed around like candy? Not to mention there were currently soldiers fighting in Iraq and getting wounded. Your comparing apples then blasting us for not condemning them. So let me just copy and paste from my post…
“I’m not defending them, nor would I perpetuate them,…”
In the same post you defend the ‘earbama’ remark because he has big ears, Hilarious. No other word for it. By that standard, McCain is fair game because he has false teeth. Consider Obama never had any say in how big his ears are just like McCain never had a choice when his teeth were beaten out. Truly remarkable. You just hate the man, you’ll find anything to justify it, even if your party is guilty of the same things. Keep it up and landslide will be an understatement.
The only way to beat Obama is with intelligent and well constructed arguments. So far, I’ve seen nothing well constructed or intelligent to prove his platforms impossible, except that there ‘impossible’.
57. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
I swear to God, debating these liberals that frequent this site will cause brain damage.
It’s beyond belief that they are spewing 2 to 3 year old talking points as poignant issues worthy of mention.
I really wonder if they have any capacity for objective thought. But it does explain Obamas rise to power. Not hard to convince people that know nothing.
“time to turn the page” - Obama
Wow, that’s deep.
58. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Why does this society tolerate people that are too timid, insecure and weak to provide for themselves and thus look to the government to resolve their problems?
Why SAR? Why do you need someone else to take care of you?
59. Some Assembly Required | June 5th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
54. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Ah, the ol “you don’t know me!!!” arguement. I’m impressed.
Incidentally I know people serving in Iraq as well. I want them home. I don’t want them over there a minute more then they have to be and I most certainly don’t want the party in power which has sent them there for no good reason. How dare you say I insult service men because I may have some concept of something outside of America. I’ll be the first to admit I’m no expert in foreign relations but I certainly never would have gone to war in Iraq to begin with. If the people of Iraq wanted to free themselves from Saddam they would have (Burma comes to mind). If that had been apparent I would be all for stepping in. But the fact of the matter is, these people did not ask for liberty, especially not from a hypocritical nation without world support.
Matt, don’t hit the bottle to hard when Obama is president. McCain’s quite the ways behind in those polls that you love to cite.
60. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
“We can no longer afford to pretend that it isn’t.” - SAR
When did we ever think it was?
Again, just another completely meaningless, baseless talking point that liberals are famous for.
Liberalism is a brain disorder. Pure and simple.
61. Some Assembly Required | June 5th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
“Why does this society tolerate people that are too timid, insecure and weak to provide for themselves and thus look to the government to resolve their problems?”
Why are we still in Iraq? The Iraqi’s should provide for themselves right. I mean otherwise their only timid, insecure and weak. Why should our government solve their problems?
62. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
SAR,
My nephews WANT TO GO BACK! Who the fuck are you to tell them no!
And why do you need someone to take care of you? Why do you need someone eles to pay your taxes, why do you want someone else to pay your healthcare, why do you want someone else to fight your battles? Are you a complete failure? Can you do anything for yourself?
63. Some Assembly Required | June 5th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
“When did we ever think it was?”
When we went into Iraq without examining what a conflict in the region would do to it’s stability.
64. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
You’re an liberal American SAR. Someone with over 200 year head start on liberty than the Iraqi’s. And, presumably someone who supports human rights and emocracy. But I guess that comes with a price tag, right?
I mean you’ll help other people only to a certain point right?
You’d rather have the American government help you right? And no one else. You’re an ugly American.
You haven’t answered my question. Why do have to rely on other people?
65. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
How does that possibly equate to us thinking that that we are bigger than anyone else???
Your callous and flippant attitude towards the Iraqis would suggest that you think that you are better than them, that is for sure.
66. Some Assembly Required | June 5th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
“My nephews WANT TO GO BACK! Who the fuck are you to tell them no!”
Who are you to tell them yes? Who are you to sanction the deaths of the Iraqi’s (who never attacked us)? Who are you to sanction the collateral damage? Who are you to sanction rising middle class homeless because of the oil we went to war for?
Listen man, it’s obvious you have no arguement left so your throwing blind insults and pointed personal questions to bait me into some sort of emotional confrontation. Not gonna happen. If you care to reasonably debate anything which I have stated I’m all for it. I just ask you take a walk outside and calm down a little.
Cheers
67. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
I have no argument left?????
I didn’t realize we were arguing an issue. I was challenging you on your pugnacious self righteousness about world affairs.
Your argument that Iraq is a quagmire couldn’t be further from the truth. Liberals are afraid to death of what is happening in Iraq because it is diametrically opposed to the narrative.
I have never said yes to my nephews. That’s their decision. Why would you prevent them? Mind you the oldest one helped an Iraqi get his business open before he came home. Do you not want that?females
68. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Ahhhh the old “cheers” tagline
Ye of many handles? Why do liberals always change their handle. Is that part of intruction?
I find it ironic that the party that does not perceive Islamism to be a threat, is deathly afraid of Christianity. I find it ironic that the party that is sanctimonious about human rights, wont lift a finger to defend it. I find it ironic that the party that champions the individual, proposes collectivism. I find it ironic that the party that believes in peoples ability, proposes the government take care of them.
69. Tractatus | June 5th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
I have no argument left?????
Correct.
The obvious sign that you know you’ve been bested is when you start blithering about “regurgitating talking points.” From that point, it’s all downhill.
I do love, however, the way that you fall to pieces as soon as very light pressure is applied. It’s funny stuff. Keep it up!
70. neocon | June 5th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
How refreshing tractatus. You always have something original.
If both of you would like to continue, please make your post, than reference the one many thousand responses on this site, in various threads over the last several years and choose the one you like best. Then rinse and repeat.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
71. Doug | June 5th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Obama should pick Richardson else he hands the Hispanic vote to McCain on a silver platter.
As much as I like Steele, McCain should NOT pick Steele, Watts, Jindal, or another person of color. I only say that because Obama is going to take 95% of the black vote and there is nothing McCain can do to stem that, so those candidates don’t really counteract anything.
McCain should NOT pick Romney, that would be a massive show of weakness, much like Obama picking Hillary. Romney adds only his own money to the ticket, the only reason he gets so much support is from people who don’t like McCain - not a smart way to build a ticket.
The logical choices for McCain would be Ridge (if he is thinking of geographical electoral college), Dole or Hutchison (if he wants a female on there, unlike Palin, both those are ready to be President), Lieberman (well, it’s the Maverick), or Huckabee (slightly, if only because Evangelicals are much more likely to sit out an election than suburban Republicans if they don’t have a horse in the race.)
72. Danish Artist | June 6th, 2008 at 7:00 am
“Dealing with bloggers when you get paid to run a shop full of professional journalists ……”
Robin Green
Occupation: Serratoth Island City Desk Editor
Wow, a “paid professional” in your own little world of hell (as defined in you whack-job website). Serratoth or Serraoth Island (not much for spelling for an “editor”) doesn’t exist.
Please stop parading your false credentials as you have Obama’s concerning his foreign policy. Being a member of the senate committees? Oh please, I was in Air Force ROTC, i guess that make me qualified for defense doctrine, using your “logic”.
I see libs have nothing but their usual spewing of talking points and “well what about McCain”.
SAR, stick to your video games and pot.
CO, there is nothing that already hasn’t been said, eh?
Bob, snort, bwahahahahahahah!
Libs cannot get past the “change we can believe in” bumper sticker mentality. They are still running against Bush. America was fooled with “change” once and it is a tired old liberal line just like their political agenda.
73. Some Assembly Required | June 6th, 2008 at 8:41 am
“Your argument that Iraq is a quagmire couldn’t be further from the truth.”
Neocon, everyone has said it is. Everyone has admitted to making mistakes. Rummy was decided to be incompetent. Sure there has been progress over there, but where we gain two steps, we lose one, sometimes two, and sometimes three. If it wasn’t a quagmire, we would be out by now and the Iraqi people would be well on their way to presiding over there own country regardless of our wishes. Sorry man, but the argument of Iraq not being a quagmire because you said so is simply a delusion.
74. David | June 6th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Jindal is a rising star in the GOP, but should not be picked to be McCain’s VP. The argument we use against Obama in that he is quite inexperienced, applies to Jindal. He is about 36 and been Governor for less than a year and was only in Congress for a short time. Additionally, having him next to McCain, makes McCain look much older than he is.
McCain would be good to pick someone dynamic, as opposed to someone who can deliver a state. He should look at Romney, Kasich, Cantor, Pawlenty, etc.
If he were to pick a female, he should definately choose Palin. The mention of KBH is a joke. She has no chance of being picked. Even her own congressional staff doesn’t like her.
I won’t even go into Christ, since everyone knows those rumors…
As for Obama, he needs to choose someone who has experience….someone along the lines of a Sam Nunn. I just cannot see him choose Webb or Kaine. God help us if he does. As for Clinton, I think the VP slot will be publically offered for her to reject. This would be done only to smooth things over for her supporters.
75. OhioOrrin | June 6th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
for the record - I object to the cursing & profanity on this thread.
this is not Kos, speak properly please!
76. Bob Bobson | June 6th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Civil war: two groups of people of the same country fighting each other. (Sunnis and Shiites?)
I never said the two are good friends, but Bush is campaigning for McCain, and McCain has made clear some of his policies will reflect Bush
And democrats aren’t guaranteeing or basing entire campaigns change, we’re praying for it, especially after eight years of George Bush in office.
And i gotta say, neocon - you get pissed off really easy. Its pretty damn funny.
77. Robin Naismith Green | June 6th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
72. Danish Artist | June 6th, 2008 at 7:00 am
Not to brag or anything but a nice seaside view in my office is a fine perk. Being an editor can be as difficult as hearding cats but it won’t be half as much fuin as watching you Right Wing boys try to defend Bush while Joe and Jane Average sink deeper in debt and gasoline keeps going up. But don’t mind us island folk here on the hot rocks in Serratoth Custom House, human lives are short and you’ll get here soon enough. On a brighter note most people like you and js actually end up making a good go of the Afterlife once you realize nobody really is going to hold you to task for being a nebbish. Once you are kicked loose by the courts that is if you are you end up with nearly 3 grand in your pocket and a free trip anywhere in the Empire. That’s a far better deal than you get up there at any time.
Keep holding on to that hate middle class boy you may hit the lottery one day and not just be a relatively boring commenter. Yeah what about McCain being in a prison camp then qualifies him to be president? how about electing a battered wife to be his vice president then? Dumb patriotism will not solve the problem. And I would bet those Danes in Pakistan don’t think the whole cartoon thing was so funny now. Hey wait they might still be on the island I’ll go and ask them!
78. neocon | June 6th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Bob,
It’s not anger, it’s sheer amazement the level of discourse remains at the elementary level because of mentally challenged liberals, such as yourself, continues to bring up old talking points as poignant and relevant.
So for the sake of argument please elaborate for us this Shiite-Sunni civil war. Where in the country is this great conflict taking place? Who is leading the Sunni’s? Is Maliki or Al Sadr leading the Shiites? And what role does the Sunni-Shiite comprised ISF play in this civil war?
And they call liberals the reality based community. That’s hysterical.
The following is another snippet that would refute conventional liberal wisdom.
WASHINGTON — The United States is not seeking permanent military bases in Iraq as it negotiates legal and military agreements with the Iraqi government, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan C. Crocker said June 5.
79. Tractatus | June 6th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
continues to bring up old talking points as poignant and relevant.
Waving your traditional white flag again, I see. Good for you.
80. Bob Bobson | June 6th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
this is some friendly advice - whatever it is, you really cant win an argument as easily if you show it. compromise is not easy, but if you really loose credibility if your emotions become apparent. Indifference is pretty much the key. think poker.
Reality based - (sigh) Ann Coulter - “We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren’t punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That’s war. And this is war.” We can win the war by massacring civilians! (please note the sarcasm)
George Bush - “I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully.” there are more, but this is by far my favorite.
81. Danish Artist | June 6th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Robin Green, you really are now all over the map with your response!!
It is so easy to mess with a delusional mind!
Thanks for not denying you obvious false credentials and enforcing the delusion of your version of hell.
We will all go there eventually???
Hah!
No wonder you people are miserable. You have no hope and nothing to look forward to, except being and appetizer to some fictional leviathan!
And as usual you revert to the never ending brimstone tactic of assuming our low class status and bleak future outlook.
Quick find your meds!
82. Rich | June 6th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Civil war: two groups of people of the same country fighting each other. (Sunnis and Shiites?)
So is there a civil war west of my neighborhood in Chicago? Blacks and Mexicans are fighting for drug territory off Western ave. Blacks don’t come around after dark any more. Was the fighting between the Hatfields and the McCoy’s a civil war? Seriously, the nes agencies stopped calling it a civil war, time for you to also.
83. neocon | June 6th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Bob,
Can you stay on topic?
Tell me more about this Iraq civil war. It must be really bad. Can you elaborate?
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