“Roe” Speaks
June 21st, 2008 at 05:58am Mark Noonan
I know our liberal friends are very kindly advising us to make no issue of things like abortion and gay marriage during the 2008 campaign - ever solicitous of our conservative movement, liberals worry that if we campaign on these issues it might harm us at the polls - but it is good that Norma McCorvey, the “Roe” in “Roe v Wade” will let the American people know the truth about herself:
Norma McCorvey, the plaintiff “Jane Roe” in the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion nationwide, will appear in her first-ever television commercial to lament her role in the case.
Since the 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling, documented abortions have killed more than 50 million unborn babies in the U.S.
In the new commercial McCorvey says, “back in 1973 I was a very confused twenty-one year old with one child and facing an unplanned pregnancy. At the time I fought to obtain a legal abortion, but truth be told, I have three daughters and never had an abortion.”
“Upon knowing God,” she continues, “I realize that my case, which legalized abortion on demand, was the biggest mistake of my life.
“You read about me in history books, but now I am dedicated to spreading the truth about preserving the dignity of all human life from natural conception to natural death.”
McCorvey is now an active Catholic.
The commercial is produced by Virtue Media, which describes itself as an organization “dedicated to producing and airing powerful and life-saving television, radio commercials and educational films.”
Susan Gerdvil, Communications Director at Virtue Media, told CNA that the organization is working with different pro-life groups to air the commercial but a broadcast is not yet scheduled.
One wonders what motivates people to do that - take a young, frightened woman and bamboozle her into being the instrument of legalised murder? I mean, do the people who did this feel good about themselves? Did they really go home after “Roe” was decided and say, “thank God - now poor, confused women who are feeling abandoned will be able to get rid of a child they think unwanted at the moment”? The people who organized the case and carried it forward - up to an including the Supreme Court Justices who issued their essentially pre-decided ruling - didn’t care about McCorvey; she was just a convenience…a prop is a play, as it were. Joined up with mostly cock-and-bull stories of “back alley” abortions, McCorvey was presented as someone who just wanted to make her own decisions regarding her “reproductive rights”…I was very young, then, but I do remember how midlly it was all put. It was just for the really hard cases; it was a matter of privacy; we must save women from the horrors of “back alley” abortions…but, as with all such liberal ideas of ditching Judeo-Christian morality, the result was very different from the advertisement.
The exception became the rule - rather than just being a few hard cases per year, the floodgates were opened up and groups like Planned Parenthood starting making bank off the procedure, and thus relentleslly propagandised about how quick, painless and liberating it was. The alleged back alley abortionist now became an abortion provider, and just hung out a shingle. A monstrous crime was set in motion which has murdered 50 million so far.
In the fullness of time this will all come to an end. Everything must be paid for, but those who advocated for this, who called it something worthy of protection and proclaimed it a basic human right, they will have to pay the Judge a very high price, indeed.
Entry Filed under: Life Issues
65 Comments
1. neocon | June 21st, 2008 at 8:28 am
“I’ve got two daughters; 9 years old and 6 years old,” Obama said. “I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby. I don’t want them punished with an STD at the age of 16. You know, so it doesn’t make sense to not give them information.” - Barack Obama
2. Sarah Bloch | June 21st, 2008 at 8:47 am
Mr Noonan,
I think that number 50 million is important because it means that over the last 35 years a whole generation of Americans has been lost to abortion. That said I would also posit that without Christian parents who didn’t want the futures of their daughters “ruined” by having to raise a child taking their daughters to doctors to have abortions that number would be significantly lower. I’m not laying any blame but there are a lot of religious advocates, you included, who like to beat a moral drum about this issue.
If America is 78% Christian and holds all these values why is it that Christian women abort their fetuses even when they know this is wrong? If the morality of religion is so hard wired and more to the point this medical practice is actually murder then why are Christians having any part in this? I can’t imagine that only atheist women are having abortions in America.
There is a saying here in my homeland, “While religion is like clothing that can be changed and removed in many layers, Faith is the skin into which you are born, live and die.”
3. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 21st, 2008 at 9:09 am
As juvenile as it may seem I feel I must point out to you that the needs of those actually living and working and raising families in the United States may need to take priority over this issue in the 2008 election. Mark the people who think this is an issue worth voting for one candidate over another have already made up their minds to be sure. I highly doubt if anyone who feels as strongly as you do against murdering a child in the womb is even considering anyone other than John McCain.
There might be 100 000 people that can put their moral or religious convictions aside and vote for a candidate that appeals to them on other levels but I am sure you would be quick to point out that they were not truly religious people anyway.
Asking hard questions are what demon journlaists do in my neck of the woods so I have to ask, “If you knew a president would serve two terms and make a mess of the economy say on the level it was 1979 but would in eight years fit enough conservative judges on the SCOTUS to over turn Roe v Wade would you make that tade? Would a poor economy be worth having abortion declared illegal?”
I will define poor economy such that there will be no confusion or accusations of parsing.
Unemployment at 8% or higher
Inflation at 10% or higher
The dollar at € 2
3 million annual foreclosures
S & P below 1 000
growth at -2%
4. neocon | June 21st, 2008 at 9:42 am
Sarah,
Your presumed premise that since Christian women get abortions too, what’s the fuss all about right?
The fuss is to try and raise the bar of moral standards. What’s wrong with that? What’s wrong with trying to live a more moral, more caring, more responsible life?
Conservative Chrisitans realize that abortion will always be a part of the fabris of society, but that is not something to be championed nor promoted. Do you agree?
Cav,
Another red herring? As if that is a decision one would have to make? Do you ever tire of proposing false premises?
How do you equate this “supposed” horrible economy with Obama being able to forsake public financing because of his enormous amount of contributions from average hard working people?
Just doesn’t mesh, does it?
Incidentally, your unemployment and inflation figures are way off.
have a nice day
peace, neocon
5. Pain | June 21st, 2008 at 9:54 am
4. neocon | June 21st, 2008 at 9:42 am
You could care less about abortion facing such an economic disaster! We know it it not good conservative form to ever admit that but it is the truth the economy and your comfort is far more important than a single mother in Paragould, AR deciding to go to Planned Parenthood.
And your lack of ability to answer that question just explains, in concise terms, why John McCain will lose dramatically in November if the RNC does not get another sheet of talking points. Deal with this issue by appointments to the bench, your version of “activist judges” of McCain is sworn in because before the election using this as a drawing card is truly politically naive.
6. neocon | June 21st, 2008 at 10:07 am
Pain,
Honestly, I don’t even know what you’re talking about anymore. You just senselessly flail about these days.
First of all, there is no impending economic disaster. Maybe in your myopic, fast food world, but in the real world, that’s just not the case.
And what question did I fail to answer? I didn’t realize there was one. As far as ‘activist” judges. McCain will appoint judges that will interpret the constitution, which is their role. Obama plans to appoint judges that will have empathy for the poor, single women, etc. Can you say litmus test?
Incidentally Pain, are you not thrilled about Iraq now that the Shi’ites are no longer subjected to Sunni oppression and now govern Iraq? It must be a great day for you as a Shi’ite. You can thank Bush.
have a nice day
peace, neocon
7. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 21st, 2008 at 10:12 am
6. neocon | June 21st, 2008 at 10:07 am
The question is simple neocon. Would you accept economic harship to live in a United States that has declared abortion illegal?” I laid out the terms of what sort of hardship and you refuse to answer the question. Were I an American knowing that the average American cannot last very long under those circumstances I would say emphatically, NO.
I know this is one of those “do you still beat your wife,” sort of enquiries, but you conservatives have always said you have better answers than liberals who have none.
Your lack of answer tell me everything I need to know.
8. neocon | June 21st, 2008 at 10:23 am
Cav,
Your question is completely idiotic, baseless, tedious and pedestrian.
How’s this question for you?
Would you accept economic hardship to have Nationalized Health Care?
And to answer your 3rd grade question, no. But then again I will NEVER have to make that choice.
The mere porposition of that ridiculous question reveals your low level of intellect and your complete indoctrination into the liberal paradigm.
have a nice day
peace, neocon
9. neocon | June 21st, 2008 at 10:32 am
I actually am now warming to this pedestrian little game of Cav’s.
So Cav:
Would accept a Christian Theocracy if you could have income redistributiion?
Would you accept abortions being illegal if you could nationalize the oil industry?
Would you accept econimic hardship if gay marriage was legal?
I need answers to those questions Cav. They act as your liberal barometer.
have a nice day
peace, neocon
10. Vicodin-N-Cocoa | June 21st, 2008 at 10:51 am
Neo: You addressed this to Cavalor, but I’d like to take a crack at the questions, too. I hope you’ll indulge me.
(1) No. I believe in neither a Christian Theocracy nor illegal expropriation of wealth.
(2) No. I loathe the idea of a Christian Theocracy and I like the idea of PRIVATE COMPETITION in the oil industry.
(3) No. While I approve of the right for a same-sex couple to marry, it is only one of many social issues in which my view and the prevailing American view and certainly the view of the Republican Party are at odds. Though I can’t vote, I used to vote up there and was never a single issue voter. Economic hardship is not a question of personal superstitions. It is — by identity — a bad state of nature.
11. Vicodin-N-Cocoa | June 21st, 2008 at 10:57 am
Neo:
Having answered the 3 questions you addressed to Cavalor, I would like to know my rating on the “liberal barometer”.
12. neocon | June 21st, 2008 at 11:03 am
Vicodin,
If you’re not willing to personally sacrifice in order for gays to marry, women to get abortions, or for everyone to have health care, then you are not a good free thinking, socialist liberal.
Sorry
peace, neocon
13. Jeremiah | June 21st, 2008 at 11:15 am
All of America will have to pay for the sins of Abortion and homosexuality … No nation ever gets by without reaping God’s Justice. So, I say … What a price America will pay!
Get out there and tell somebody about Jesus Christ today, that’s what will make God happy and to spare this land!
14. Mark Noonan | June 21st, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Sarah,
After Roe was decided, it was an unfortunate fact of life that most Evangelicals were indifferent to it, while all too many Bishops of the Catholic Church had spent a decade giving a wink and a nod to the practice of birth control amongst Catholics, so when the Catholic Church immediately condemned Roe and esesntially start the pro-life movement, the admonition fell on too many deaf ears.
Boiled down: the pro-life forces were slow off the mark and the one institution which adheres to the basics at all times had weakened itself in relation to the life issue. Meanwhile, it has been truly said that it isn’t a matter of Christianity being tried and found wanting; its a matter of it being found difficult and thus not tried. As the pro-life forces started to gather their strength and martial their arguments, it became a matter of one side telling people do to the right and apparantly difficult thing against those who said to the wrong and apparantly easy thing (with, of course, bald-faced assertions from the Culture of Death that abortion isn’t wrong). For a lot of human beings - fallen creatures apt to sin, as we all are - it became a contest too easy to lose.
Now, however, we have moved ourselves into a position of strength, and so the pro-abortion forces become ever more fanatic in their determination - based on greed and guilty consciences - to keep abortion legal.
15. Rana Quijotesca | June 21st, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Oooh… I want to play the game too!
Would accept a Christian Theocracy if you could have income redistribution (sic)?
No. A Christian Theocracy would make our country stupid and income redistribution would make our country fail economically. We should base our economics not on “From each to their ability to each according to their need,” but on Nozick’s “From each as they choose, to each as they are chosen.”
Would you accept abortions being illegal if you could nationalize the oil industry?
No. Abortions are despicable, but it is a public safety issue. I know in Georgia, where abortions are legal but are a one-way ticket to social isolation, teenage girls (daughters of Christian, Conservative families) are regularly admitted to hospitals for injuries sustained during failed, self-administered abortions. Some of these girls use bleach–all to keep their parents and friends from knowing that they got pregnant, avoiding a terrible social stigma. Conversely, there was an instance where there was an abortion clinic across the street from the hospital (because the hospital wouldn’t allow abortions). The abortion went wrong, and because the clinic wasn’t equipped to handle the issue (the hospital was), and the patient couldn’t be transported, she died on the table. That is both why I would never want one of my friends to get an abortion and why I think that they should be safe and legal. Nationalizing the oil industry is also a retarded thing to do–it’ll just stifle energy research. The smart thing to do would be to beef up CAFE standards and more aggressively pursue things such as electric and hydrogen cell cars.
Would you accept economic (sic) hardship if gay marriage was legal?
No. This question isn’t anything like the other ones… The prior ones had to do with specific policies, and one of the choices here is the result of flawed policy. I think that economic policies should not only foster growth and competition, they should foster a level playing-field between workers and management (neither one has the upper hand) and producers and consumers (removing inequality of information for product tests, etc). The Government shouldn’t
How did I do on the barometer?
On to the post… Roe has been against the decision since the ’80s. There is nothing new here…
16. Vicodin-N-Cocoa | June 21st, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Mark: You’re in a bit of a bind politically on this abortion issue. Let’s say that the rather reasonable suggestion that Roe v Wade is a great fund raising tool for the Republican Party is total nonsense and Republicans truly believe abortion is murder.
Let’s say McCain wins, and Justice Stevens retires or dies and is replaced by an anti-Roe justice. They review a pertinent case and overturn the Roe decision. At that point, it goes to the states. You know what will happen. It will be 1972. Blue states will legalize it. Red states will criminalize it. Purple states will split.
But at what level will the Red States criminalize it? For that matter, at what level would a constitutional amendment banning and criminalizing it settle?
If abortion is murder, it’s murder. Full stop. That makes the doctors, nurses, pregnant woman all murderers and conspirators to commit murder. It makes the husband, boyfriend, friend of the pregnant woman guilty of conspiracy to commit, plus aiding and abetting. It might even make the taxi driver complicit.
You are talking about an ETERNITY of prison time there for ONE ABORTION. How are you going to charge and convict all participants in all American abortions?
You can’t play this a la carte, though. You can’t make the penalties the same as say for auto-theft or mail fraud. It has to be for murder. Or else the religious element of your argument has no weight and you are only arguing that you want to choose what other adults can and can’t do with their bodies or their friendships.
17. Rana Quijotesca | June 21st, 2008 at 1:06 pm
oops… some of my comment got cut out—
I meant to say that the government shouldn’t regulate marriage in the first place, because it’s a religious ceremony, and the government shouldn’t do that. Civil Unions all the way! :-D
18. Mark Noonan | June 21st, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Vicodin,
Well, we’ll never be able to catch all murderers nor will we be able to properly punish all those who murder, or who are accessory to murder…so, lets become “pro-choice” and legalise murder, and then see if we can make it “safe, legal and rare”….
Of course if we overturn Roe it will result in some States making it illegal, others leaving it legal and some States trying to strike a balance…still better than, as current, abortion on demand throughout the United States. We’ll take what we can get - we’re not liberals looking for a universal solution from human hands, but Christians who work incrementally as God calls us and reliant that God will ensure that the good triumphs in the end.
As for punishment - the people who are in most need of punishment are the people who say that abortion isn’t murder…but, I can’t do anything to them for speaking evil. Abortionists should have a ten year sentence smacked on them, all others excused…that will get most of them out of the business and as only lousy doctors become abortionists, we’ll soon be at a situation where there’s just not that many places to obtain an abortion, and you can keep it legal to the cows come home, if there’s no one to do it, as far as I’m concerned.
19. Vicodin-N-Cocoa | June 21st, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Mark: I agree with you that that was one of Clinton’s stupidest remarks and deserves a good laugh. As a believer in a woman’s right to choose, it sounded like absolute fluff to me.
I wonder though in which state does 1st or 2nd degree homicide carry a penalty of only 10 years? By your reckoning abortion is 1st degree homicide because it’s planned aforethought and arranged conspiratorially via sophisticated means.
I don’t want to legalize murder, that’s silly. We just have a different point of view on when life begins. I can’t convince you and don’t want to and you can’t convince me.
I want to know how you plan to enforce the law and how you’ll deal with the repercussion of so many US citizens being imprisoned for most of their lives over this. If you think there won’t be a response in the body politic you are wrong.
20. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 21st, 2008 at 2:30 pm
9. neocon | June 21st, 2008 at 10:32 am
No
No
and No
21. Mark Noonan | June 21st, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Vidocin,
A woman’s right to choose? As if the act of choosing is more important than what is chosen…one of the larger absurdities of our time; “right to choose”. Another “I don’t now when life begins” - any grade-school biology student can tell you when human life begins: at the moment of conception. What you really mean is “I don’t know when an unborn life is worth troubling myself over”…
I’d like to say I’m sorry for being a bit harsh with your views…but 50 million murders just takes all the politeness out of a person.
Finally, yes, we could prosecute everyone for first degree murder vis a vis abortion…if we were a bunch of a**holes. I’m not; or, at least, I try not to be. You should, too.
22. Jeremiah | June 21st, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Abortionists should have a ten year sentence smacked on them, all others excused
I agree, Mark.
It can be said, that these doctors are smart, they went to school go their degree in the medical field…but I don’t think their education should ever be used as a means to trump evil.
Life is too precious to allow these murderers to live, no murderer should go free and live.
Capital punishment is a good thing. God mandated Capital punishment. It is meant to protect the most innocent among us, and they are the precious unborn children.
One more thing…and when we convict these murderers, there should be no waiting time in prison, and no appeals after a unanimous 12 juror court conviction, they should go straight from their sentence to Death Row!
In this….people will fear the law and thus, do good! That’s what it was meant for, and when you don’t apply the law in that manner, you can just expect more evil to happen
If…after we mandate the Death Penalty and the people get mad and start murdering even more, then we’ll just have to fight them, because we have to stand up for what is right, stand up for ‘good’.
Are there enough people in America who will stand up for ‘good’?
I don’t know. America’s sinking fast. And all Christians can do at this point, if they will is get out there and make a difference. You can’t do it sitting at home or on the golf course, or in the Bahamas…no, if you sincerely care about your country you will stay and fight the good fight.
Again…the bottom line: ‘SOMEONE NEEDS TO GET ON THE FIRING LINE FOR GOD.’
23. Vicodin-N-Cocoa | June 21st, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Mark: There’s no resolution between us on this and I know you take this very seriously. So, I have no desire to insult your views or mock you in any way. I merely wanted to know how you saw this playing out materially given that you are seeking a very extreme change to USA criminal codes and social policy.
As a choice absolutist, I do say that you have every right to be a**holes and make the penalties for abortion equal to the penalties for 1st degree murder should your side win the day. From my point of view, 10 years is hardly a gift.
24. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 21st, 2008 at 2:55 pm
21. Mark Noonan | June 21st, 2008 at 2:32 pm
You say that like you do not believe in the right to self defense.
You would not blink twice at sentencing a man who kills the unborn child of a woman in the commission of an armed robbery to 25 to Life in prison. But somehow this becomes more important as a “moral” victory does it not? I think VNC has hit the nail on the head when he says this is more about controlling what other people do with their bodies and scoring a political victory that can be the reply to every question on a blog in dissent against the next awful Republican president.
As a long time member of the bar in my realm I have come to the same conclusion of many of my peers. The minimum penalties for such a conspiracy to commit murder and the accomplishment of that act has to be either forfeiture of life by any of the accepted non cruel or non unusual means or Life in prison with the possibility of parole after 25 years.
As a conspiracy all parties involved could be grouped as classes and tried on the same charges. The doctor, nurse, woman and boyfriend/male or female friend/ parent would all get one set of sentences and anyone conveying them to the facility bus jitney/cab/limo driver could receive lesser charges and sentences 8 1/2 to 25 under the Model Penal Code for each death.
25. Jeremiah | June 21st, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Why in the world do we need prisons when that’s why we got ropes.
Prison is a joke…here we are feeding people to do nothing as help in return.
How many prisons would we need? How many people would be plotting evil if we had the Death Penalty in place?
Drastically less!
Just use your head…that’s all you gotta do!
26. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 21st, 2008 at 3:08 pm
22. Jeremiah | June 21st, 2008 at 2:45 pm
The Death penalty does not make people fear the law. People kills for reasons that have nothing to do with what punishment they will suffer.
There are certainly enough people who will stand up for good in America and all over Terra for that matter this is why your crazy brand of whatever it is you believe in, let us call it Christofascism for lack of a better moniker will never take root in America and become a governing ideology.
27. Vicodin-N-Cocoa | June 21st, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Mark:
I as disagreeable as I find Jeremiah’s last remark, I credit him for writing an unvarnished opinion without fear.
I don’t really see a distinction between your view and his. What is the purpose of half-measures if you see abortion as the ultimate crime?
28. Mark Noonan | June 21st, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Jeremiah,
No, that would be wrong - and I’m an opponent of the death penalty, anyways.
29. Jeremiah | June 21st, 2008 at 3:16 pm
The Death penalty does not make people fear the law.
LOL! Well it’s bound to make people think. Pretty soon the more murderers we put to death….the people says, Hmmm! Is murder worth throwing my life away?”
Well you just go right and try it!
but yeah, you’re right…people are just way too dumb to see what it is they should be doing, and I don’t know if there is any hope for America at this point…..the liberals are dumber than coal buckets, and they’ll see where their failed ideology will lead America.
30. Jeremiah | June 21st, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Yeah, Mark, I never really knew you and I differed on the issues so much. I hope you’ll see the difference, Mark.
31. Mark Noonan | June 21st, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Cavalor,
Because you hold the mind-bogglingly absurd opinion that my brief here is about political power and social control, you would say that in order to be consistent I’d have to advocate harsh punishments for abortion - but I’m not in the abortion issue for power, and I don’t want to control anyone; I don’t want revenge for abortion, I just want it stopped because it is destructive of life in its fullest sense - and the most destruction is wrought on those, like you, who think its ok.
It might make you feel like you’re clever to state what you said, but really what it amounts to is the tail end of a series of soul-destroying views you have adopted out of ignorance and a desire to be accepted in your social circle. What you and Vicodin are doing is being exactly like a person who has jettisoned Judeo-Christian morality (even though such a person might claim to adhere to it) - you have turned the world upside down and are being entirely irrational. For God’s sake, man, a pregnancy lasts 9 months - a murder lasts forever! To kill a child because a pregnancy is incovenient at the moment is something that not even the most savage barbarians would do…and yet you sit there, heir to 2,000 of Judeo-Christian rationality, and you actually believe that your irrational, insane views on this are quite normal.
Abortion is a scourge - a plague; a pestilence. It has murdered 50 million children, and destroyed the immortal souls of many millions more…and more and worse is to come, if we in the Culture of Life don’t triumph.
32. Mark Noonan | June 21st, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Jeremiah,
You have been forgiven very much, and so very much must you forgive.
33. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 21st, 2008 at 3:37 pm
31. Mark Noonan | June 21st, 2008 at 3:22 pm
As if poverty is not.
Yet how many billions have died of simple hunger all over Terra in the ages since America has had the power to literally bomb other nations into taking care of their citizens. You cannot convince me Mr Noonan that this issue is not about sopcial control for others. You may be an honorable man and may wish to have lives saved I will accept that from you. But for the vast majority of people in political power in Washington this is an issue that can be used to raise money and further an agenda that has very little to do with Snowflake babies or whether a young woman keeps or kills a fetus.
34. Mark Noonan | June 21st, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Cavalor,
Well, you can send $10 to Missionaries of the Poor to help out on the hunger front…but the abortion issue isn’t about mere death; we all must die…what it is about is what sort of society we wish to live in. The Culture of Death is already a horror and if we don’t stop it, it will just get worse and worse. Once you think that death is ever the answer to a problem, you’ll not stop until even the most trivial issues are resolved with death.
35. JustAnotherTaxpayer | June 21st, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Mr. Noonan,
Seventeen sixteens(No pun intended. Alliteration intended.) have heard your message about being prolife. These babies have decided to have babies. Which will be wonderful for their babies.
One of the fathers is a 24 old homeless “man”, no doubt a fervent opponent of “Roe vs Wade”.
All these girls are making a statement supporting the “culture of life”.
Amanda Ireland, a recent graduate who had her baby during her freshmen year said”They’re so excited to have someone love them unconditionally. I try to explain it’s hard to feel loved when an infant is screaming at 3 am.”
What this girl who knows is talking about is the temptation to abuse and neglect children that is especially present in the high stress situation represented by teen pregnancy, and parenthood.
Chris Farmer, superintendent of Gloucestor schools observes these girls have little self-esteem, and love in their lives. These girls have nothing to give these children, aside from the immediate threat of abuse and neglect, the sons are more likely to end up in prison, and daughters will likely repeat their mothers mistakes.
Ironically, last month, in a conflict with the Hospital administering the grant that created the school clinic where the girls had their pregnancy tests, the directors of the clinic resigned when not allowed to distribute contraceptives without parental notification.
Not that it might have made any difference, but I wonder, since we’ve gotten the Haditha hell from a parents perspective, why not get the parents of these babies having babies to talk about how proud they are of the girls and their fathers, and to be a part of the culture of life.
But before somebody brilliant Bushie brings up adoption, it must be pointed out that while adoption is an option, given that there were aprrox. 1 million abortions, and 150,000 adoptions, the disparity between societies fertility rates vs number of adoptive parents leaves a gaping hole in your talk of adotion as a panacea to abortion.
Who will care for the children no one wants?
If those, including the editors of this blog, oppose abortion on the grounds that they wish to take responsibility for the children they talk about so much, I stand with you.
However, and I suspect this is true of most pro-lifers, that they wish for others to take responsibility for the children they will take on themselves, then I agree with those who would turn ROE into a 10th amendment issue. Leave it to the states to decide.
36. Jeremiah | June 21st, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Mark,
That’s all correct. But….what you’ve got to get to understanding….is that, the God who wrote the Law in the Old Testament is the very same God in the New Testament. In other words, if you wronged me, yes, I’m to forgive you from the heart, but that doesn’t make an excuse to let you escape the penalty of the Civil Laws stated in God’s Law.
Yes, I do forgive the murderer, but he musn’t escape what God ordained as his punishment. Back in those days, for people who were caught committing adultery God commanded them to be stoned. God was very strict.
Let’s look at it this way … if our government put just a ten year sentence on murderers and said, “ok, we forgive you, now you can go” How much you think’s gonna change? None at all! Because the sentence does not strike a fear in the peoples heart to spur them to do good, and they’re just going to continue the murdering. Just like Vicodin there, he could care less what happens to our society, he’d just as soon let the murderers continue on their quest for blood. There’ll be millions upon millions of children die under that type ideology.
You can’t do that, Mark. God didn’t create the laws for nothing…He created the law to protect the innocent. I foresee some very bad things happening over the next few years if someone doesn’t step to the plate and do something.
‘SOMEONE NEEDS TO GET ON THE FIRING FOR GOD.’
37. Jeremiah | June 21st, 2008 at 8:54 pm
And another thing…just look at the screed from JustAnotherTaxpayer there, you notice he’s not concerned either way…he doesn’t encourage responsibility…adopt, adopt……Ok, let’s all throw our babies off on somebody else to take care of them, eh? LOL! Then what do you get? The ol’ devil gets to thinking, Hmmm, if they’re not going to take responsibility we’ll just give them the option to kill their baby.
Here’s the way you have to look at it….If two made the committment to make you possible, the shouldn’t you do the same for your child…huh? Well, shouldn’t you?
It’ll never change though, cuz all democrats want is one gigantic USA orgy.
It’ll be great to breathe once God clears the stagnanted liberal air from this country!!!!!
38. JustAnotherTaxpayer | June 21st, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Jeremiah,
There you go again. You realy don’t want to take responsibiltiy for these children. You DON”T
care about them. You only care about teling other people how to live. Care for the orphan, that’s al over the old and new testament
That is the extent of your empty faith, and the reason Bush faith stands for nothing.
And you still haven’t answered the question:
Who is going to assume the responsibility for the raising of these children?
Why don’t I ever hear how your going to follow McCain example and adopt a child?
Where is the evidence of your faith outside of your mouths?
And another thing, Jeremiah, for all the talk about children on this blog from you and the editors, I hear so very little about your succeses raising your own children.
39. Vicodin-N-Cocoa | June 21st, 2008 at 11:37 pm
JUSTANOTHERTAXPAYER:
I think these guys have to leave their mother’s houses, meet a woman, and have sexual relations before they can start telling stories about fatherhood.
I’ll tell a few harmless anecdotes about my son but in a debate space I’m not sure it’s a great idea for anyone to be calling themselves successes or failures as fathers.
40. JustAnotherTaxpayer | June 22nd, 2008 at 2:22 am
Vicodin,
Sorry about mixing up your name with Rush. An insult I’ll hope you forgive.
Interesting observation you made about “these guys”. I agree with you that perhaps it would be getting personal talking experiences with parenthood.
However, that is the thing that the prolifers squarely avoid:taking responsibility for the lives they talk so loosely aboout. The fetuses they are so obsessed with are just that to them :fetuses. They don’t become people, and prolifers have no use for them other than as an excuse to condemn others so that they will not have to see how empty their faith is.
Aside from having an empty faith that turns people away from the truth of the Gospels(Yes, I believe.), there are practical, and historical reasons for turning Roe into a 10th amendment issue.
First, crimes against persons are state issues, unless they involve or are directed at federal officials or state lines have been crossed to commit such crimes. This is the way it has been from before the time of the republics founding.
Second, there are legitimate concerns even the most avid pro choicer would have to take up, like what to do if a fetus that is wanted is aborted through unwanted injury to a pregnant woman. No one would want to see the hopes and dreams of any parent dashed by a criminal who could walk away scott free because the fetus was not a “person”.
Third, the federal system needs to be revived. It has been steadily eaten away at since the civil war, and its reputation hasn’t improved with Jim Crow, and some of the other niceties states in this country dressed up under the legal guise “seperate but equal.”
Today, however, we have many problems that are too knotty to solve, and don’t lend themselves to a single solution. What if the best minds in all the repective states put their effort into solving this problem, and respecting each others laws? I’m sure California recent court ruling on Homosexual marriage will be treated in this fashion.
What’s legal here may not be held as such by other states. Of course the supreme court will have to be called upon to settle disputes between states if, for example, a state holds that any willing participant in an abortion is a murderer while in another state the same procedure is quite legal.
But this assumes that the courts first function is to settle such disputes rather than establish a single standard which effectivly does away with state authority. Further, the courts do away with state auhtority leads to the erosion of elected officials authority entirely as the court did by not throwing the question of the Florida recount back to elected officials in congress, and Florida. An unprecedented bit of judicial activism.
Social conservatives objection to judicial authority only concerns issues brought before the court not decided their way. This is why social conservatism is a failure. Social conservativism like any other “ism” is a liberal movement. They, like there secular counterparts, feel they have all the answers, don’t need any experience to understand, and run around handing out empty sloganeering campaigns.
Both secular and religous liberals serve their respective minorities, secularists say we redistribute wealth to the poor while the religous have been coopted by the financial elite who pay the pulpit puppets to say they are divinely appointed by God to recieve our money.
Both have failed, but when religous liberals fail, they take the country with them. In any case, restoring the balance between the states and the fed wil increase respect for the rule of law in general, while at the same time forcing social change by allowing people to vote with their feet.
If people don’t like the way things are in one state, they can move to another. No doubt this is what will happen with Homosexual marriage as such people flock to California, bringing with them their wealth and their experience.
When California becomes wealthier
as a result of their coming, with out the expected apocalyptic increase in crime or changes in weather, people more concerned about losing their homes than what’s going on in their neighbors bedroom, will vote to legalize such arrangements.
This will happen not because this is some great cause that will advance the cause of freedom, but because sticking your nose in your neighbors buisiness is not an American value.
Pull your own weight, pay your own way, and keep your nose in your own buisiness.
Not only is it a good way to live, its gotta work better than secular liberals program of having the middle class pay for the mistakes of the poor, or the religious liberals having pay for the mistakes of the rich.
Maybe if the failure of liberalism becomes severe enough, people will wake up and put someone like Ron Paul or Barry Goldwater in office.
Maybe…
Have a good day.
41. Magnum Serpentine | June 22nd, 2008 at 8:55 am
Deleted - off topic.
42. Mark Noonan | June 22nd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
JAT,
Not only will I take responsibility for so-called “un-wanted” children, but I’ll go you one better - I’ll actually strike at the root of the problem, which is family disintegration and the relentless popular culture propaganda vis a vis extra-marital sex…various regulations on marriage (waiting periods, etc), divorce (no more “no fault” nonsense) and the rights of families (make it much, much harder for the State to interfere in the internal workings of a family); various curbs on when and were pornography (soft and hard) can be broadcast or otherwise transmitted - with a major emphasis on cleaning up television (cable and broadcast) and video games.
You see, those foolish, young women are only doing what we, as a society, told them to do - we now need to tell them to do things differently - with the preferred set of parameters being those of Judeo-Christianity. You get out of a kid what you put into them, after accounting for that free will in all of us - put garbage into them, and mostly you’ll get garbage out of them (though, of course, some times you can put in garbage and get out a rose, or put in a rose and get out garbage - these are humans we’re dealing with).
43. Mark Noonan | June 22nd, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Jeremiah,
Unfortunately, I believe you are quite wrong in your emphasis on harsh punishment - but I am not a good enough teacher to properly instruct in this area. I suggest picking up a copy of Thomas a’ Kempis’ Imitation of Christ. It’ll do more for you in this area than anything I could say.
44. jj | June 22nd, 2008 at 4:22 pm
I am surprised that we haven’t heard much of the abortion argument ‘its the womens body so she can do what she likes’ on this thread, instead we are hearing the ‘well whose going to pay for all these children to be fed, go to school, have health care etc’ argument.
I wonder why guys on this thread are making this economic argument. Do they believe abortion is wrong but think it should be allowed because of economics? If so that is sick. Or are they all for abortion (without the economic argument) and are trying to use economics to change the pro life posters? If so that is stupid. You going to need a way better argument than that to change my mind.
Suppose 1 million refugees had to arrive in the US, according to the economics argument the solution would be to kill them all because we don’t want to pay for them? Or how about 1 million refugee babies? Killing them all is the solution?
One of the main problems with abortion (apart from the killing of an innocent life) is that it takes responsibility away from people. So if abortion is outlawed, mom’s and dad’s will have to start taking responsibility for their actions. No easy way out from a life time of responsibility anymore. At the moment dad’s have almost zero rights because ‘its the womens body’ which means they often don’t take any responsibility for their actions. Instead if abortion is outlawed the father will have to care for the child for many years.
45. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 22nd, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Noonan,
I take it you are unaware of the events that took place in January 2008 at the Commonwealth Catholic Charities in Richmond, Virginia regarding a sixteen year old Guatemalan girl in foster care.
While out of respect to you and your religion I would like to ask two things.
How do the actions of these employees square with Church Doctrine?
And
Is there any doubt that their reaction to this situation was based as much on the age of the girl as on whom the other party involved in the situation?
46. FmrMarine | June 22nd, 2008 at 5:09 pm
cee
Why do you care how we do things in the USA?
worry about england and the soon to be sharia law, and let US Americans worry about our country…..cheerie O pip pip old boy!
47. Jeremiah | June 22nd, 2008 at 5:50 pm
There you go again. You realy don’t want to take responsibiltiy for these children. You DON”T
care about them.–JustAnotherTaxpayer.
JAT,
I would say I care a heck of a lot more than you do, because I want to teach children in the right manner - first by teaching what ‘Love’ truly is.
In your good-for-nothing empty head it means sex, nothing more, nothing less. So, in this, you don’t care about anyone but your pitiful little self. You need some knots placed on your head, and maybe knock some of those dead liberal brain cells out so you can think clearly.
You’re the kind of people we need to get out of the way, because you don’t want to teach families what love, committment and responsiblity means.
Our Congress is full of knuckleheads just like you.
One good thing, though, I pray to Almighty God that the people will use their heads and vote for John McCain and we can have a full Conservative Court which will strengthen the forces of good in this country.
So…GET OUT OF THE WAY TWERP!
48. Tractatus | June 22nd, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Because you hold the mind-bogglingly absurd opinion that my brief here is about political power and social control
I’ll actually strike at the root of the problem, which is family disintegration and the relentless popular culture propaganda vis a vis extra-marital sex…various regulations on marriage (waiting periods, etc), divorce (no more “no fault” nonsense) and the rights of families (make it much, much harder for the State to interfere in the internal workings of a family); various curbs on when and were pornography (soft and hard) can be broadcast or otherwise transmitted - with a major emphasis on cleaning up television (cable and broadcast) and video games.
So, do you see how you just proved the exact same opinion you claimed was “mind-boggling absurd,” Noonan, or do I have to spell it out for you?
49. Mark Noonan | June 22nd, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Cavalor,
It doesn’t square, and it was dealt with appropriately by the Diocese and Catholic Charities, once discovered. It is only you on the left who think that because Christians aren’t perfect that there’s no sense trying to be good.
50. JustAnotherTaxpayer | June 22nd, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Mr. Noonan, JJ (Paragraphs are numbered)
1Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to respond to my post.
2The root of the problem of neglected and abused children lies in socialist conservatives very refusal to take responsibility for the lives you talk about so loosely. The moment you’re called upon to take on the load that parenthood demands, you’re ilk runs away. You talk of Gods love for these children is an insult to them when he has given you so little of your own to show.
3JJ typifies the obsene hypocrisy(Yes. Christ would have considered your vocal call for inaction obsene.) at the root of your position that not only erodes support for any specific legislative action you’d want to take against abortion, but also weakens your evangelical mission. All you have is condemnation to offer.
Mouth. Having Christs words without the power to back them up makes them look weak, powerless, and the messengers fools that people simply stop listening to. Here’s the sum of your faith in the public arena: If it doesn’t have anything with socialist conservatives screaming from the rooftops what’s wrong with everyone else, you ignore it.
4We have hundreds of thousands of children in foster care. (Some getting killed by foster parents after being removed from homes deemed unfit by the courts.) We are talking about life and death here, yet all you can talk about is the media? What the hell(excuse me)is wrong with you?
5If Terry Schiavo is worth 5 seperate acts of Congress to save, what about one of these kids? Or are the braindead(I’m not joking.) the only people Bushies are interested in cause they can relied on for support. At least up until the time God shows his disfavor with them by taking equity from their homes, or takes their homes, or their jobs when they are of no more use to the Calvinstic elect.
6Kids taken from their homes after as toddlers are usually trapped in the system till they are tossed out age 18. Too old to adopt to begin with to be attractive to prspective parents, and a host of emotional problems make these children the hard cases for adoption. But the group that Christ calls upon us to serve.
7JJ is wondering why a real conservative is only talking about money, feeding, schooling, healthcare etc, a few of the basic responsibilities parents have to take on when they decide to become parents. Do you stand around and pray when food, shelter, medical care, and education need to be provided?
8No! You go to work! Few of us have the luxury of making a living spreading Gods word, so where does your faith leave the rest of us when we can’t get to the megachurch at 3:00 in the morning to scream hallelujah at the top of our lungs while the baby is screaming for food! What’s the solution, tithe to the churches maintenance fund, or the pastors salary, or the overseas mission fund or the soldiers serving in the Iraqi welfare program because Bush can’t figure out how the use 500 billion he’s been given by lamo dems to satisfy their needs?
9You, like most liberals, seem to see childrearing as a PR problem. Control the media, and all the kids will be just fine. That argument falls to pieces in the face of the situation in Gloucestor. Where are the parents in this heavily Catholic community that wouldn’t allow the director of the school health clinic to pass out or discuss contraceptive options with the girls?
10Busy trying to figure out how to make a living in the Bush economy as Gloucestor, a Maine community whose economy is based on fishing has been hit particular hard by rising fuel prices. Based on what they saw in their parents, what options did these girls see for improving their lives. Obviously, not many.
11 But I agree with you, the girls were doing what society was telling them to. But in this case, the portion of the society they were listening to was yours. And they heard you, Mr. Noonan, loud and clear.
12Children are gods love for us embodied. A child is a gift from God. And if only given the opportunity to look at the first photo of the fetus, that’ll make you forget the weariness of answering the call for 3 am feedings and the work that has to be done to pay for the food, the rent, the doctor visits, and later, battling the teen to get away from the tube, so they can help take care of the house, and their homework.
14Who do you think your kidding, Mr. Noonan?
15hildren are the gift of the hard work that has to be done to get to know the almighty. Continuously, and consistently saying no is part of being a parent, and part of being a leader.
No to the tube, no to the money for the newest insult to young women passed off as fashion(As a father of 2 girls, I can attest to how it is to find decent modest clothing for girls to wear.), no to the money for the newest video game.
It doesn’t take long for kids to figure out that parents who try to authority with their children by bribing them lose all authority.
16What is it that the almighty continously says to us. NO! NO! NO! We all want material things we can’t have, and learning to live within those limits is tough. Sometimes people get sick, and die, while those not deserving life or material goods get all they want.
17 Living under Gods authority does not mean getting all you want, or that the world will be just. It means accepting the place he has given you in this life, while engaging in the struggle to improve it. In engaging in that struggle, you learn that Gods wisdom and Grace are dispensed slowly, after much struggle. The most important thing the almighty wants you to learn is that it is you that needs to be improved first. Your brother is to be improved second. It’s hard and there is much pain along the way.
18 But what do Bush and his ilk teach? The easy way to Gods grace, church rituals, continual condemantion of others, praising the elect who are wealthy and deserving of their wealth. Consumption is the hallmark of your faith. The more you consume, the closer you must be to the almighty.
19But what happens when you can’t be part of the elect? When you can’t live the lifestyles of the rich and famous? You consume food, drugs, sex, whatever you can get your hands on to make you feel like one of the elect. Anything that will give you unconditional love And that’s just what these girls did.
20So when does the condemnation stop, and the living out of the faith start. Your continuous condemantion with out action is the very illness underlying all the societal rot you and yours wich to root out?
21If you want to start advocating for children so badly, start with adoption laws that make it so hard for capable parents to assume guardianship of unwanted children. Adption needs to an inexpensive preocess supported by the state, when private concerns can’t come up with sufficient funds. It also needs to be final with th courts keeping their hands off children who are obviously in healthy families stay with those families. (Whatever our respective opinions of polygamy, I thought the Texas seizure case a disgusting little episode.)
22If you start advocating for society to take responsibility for its children, educate babies about the hardships of having babies, demand that fathers or their families take financial responsibility for their children, and go so far as to mandate that woman who want abortions to meet with people who would like to adopt their babies, I would go with you(Provide the girl is not underage, however you define it, and did not become pregnant through assault.)
23 But only to the extent that such people are available. Beyond that, if no one is willing to asume responsiblity for the fetus in question, leave to the state. One things for certain, if I’m looking for prospective adoptive parents, I won’t look for them amongst anti-abortion foes such as yourself. I don’t believe you want the responsibility.
Have a nice day.
51. Mark Noonan | June 22nd, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Tract,
You don’t understandt that control means, do you? You can still go ahead and be as stupid as you want to be - but you won’t get societal cooperation and approval, if you do.
Go ahead and jump into bed with that person you just met - as long as you are consenting adults I’ve got no business interfering…but marriage is for the formation of families, and families are the building block of our civlization and so before you go doing that, I want to be sure you’re fully prepared for what you are voluntarily entering into.
Go ahead and get a divorce - I don’t have any right to worry about it even if you’re on your 6th spouse…but when we put that marriage together for you, we (meaning society) asked if you wanted to do it and if you’d promise that it was forever…and we’re going to hold you to your voluntarily entered into promise unless you can show some really compelling reason why the marriage is invalid. If you disagree with me here then my question is - why would you ever promise to love, honor and cherish a person all the days of your life if you not only didn’t mean it, but didn’t mean to even try?
Go ahead and produce all the porn you want - and spend 20 hours a day masturbating over the results, for all I care…but if you’re going to put it out in places where other people, who may not want to watch it, nor have their kids exposed to it, then you’re going to have to do it in such a manner that their rights are respected, too.
Hopefully you now see that I’m not into controlling your life - controlling your life would be to demand you wear a seat belt when you drive; demanding you strap your kid into a child’s car seat when you drive your children around; demanding that you don’t smoke in any restraunt, bar or other public place no matter what the owner of the place might desire; demanding that you not say things which might offend others and thus be classifed as “hate speech”…that is control, Tract…and I hope that now you know the difference.
52. Mark Noonan | June 22nd, 2008 at 7:47 pm
JAT,
Well, you’ve got the stereotypes down pat…have you read “Whats Wrong With the World” by GK Chesterton?
53. Jeremiah | June 22nd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
JustAnotherTaxpayer is good at making up excuses (or so he thinks) that he can use to try and justify murder of the innocent……but you never hear a peep out of him on teaching couples how to love and cherish the little life they’ve created.
What a sick person JAT is, Evil actually. The JATs in the world, are the world’s problem.
54. JustAnotherTaxpayer | June 22nd, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Deleted - off topic.
55. Jeremiah | June 22nd, 2008 at 10:05 pm
I’d appreciate a direct answer.-JustAnotherTaxpayer
JAT,
I’m gonna give you a straight up answer, and I want you to listen, listen carefully…I’m going to put this in all CAPS so you can read it, I’m not yelling I just want’o put it in all caps so you can see…
THE ABORTIONISTS ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN THE MUSLIM TERRORISTS.
THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME.
THEY BOTH COMMIT MURDER
EVERY ABORTIONIST SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO CONVICTION THE SAME AS TERRORISTS.
IF NOTHING ELSE, CREATE A PRISON OUTSIDE AMERICA FOR THE SOLE RETAINING OF MURDERERS/ABORTIONISTS. JUST GET THEM OUT OF AMERICA. THEY HAVE NO PLACE IN A SOCIETY THAT HOLDS THE MOST INNOCENT AMONG US IN THE HIGHEST ESTEEM!
UNBORN CHILDREN ARE BLAMELESS, NOT GUILTY OF ANY SIN. THEIR LITTLE LIVES DO NOT DESERVE TO BE TAKEN.
Now, take that and chew on it a while, and when you figure it out, come back to me.
56. JustAnotherTaxpayer | June 23rd, 2008 at 1:03 am
So Jeremiah,
You just gonna stand around shooting off your mouth, and do nothing?
More of the same. Your faith consists of condemnation of others without any action on your own. You talk of the almightys love for these children while you seem to have none of your own.
You did not answer the question.
I ask again as Christ would’ve asked:Who will take responsibility for these children?
I would appreciate a direct answer.
A guideline:
I want to know what you are going to do, not who you are going to condemn.
57. Jeremiah | June 23rd, 2008 at 1:44 am
Who will take responsibility for these children?
JAT,
Is that the first thing that comes to your mind?
If it is, then you need to get seek some psychiatric assistance.
Whenever a man finds him a woman, and likewise a woman finds her a man…what’s the logical thing to do?
A) Have sex right away. and then move to another person and have sex, and another and another, and another, and another, and another, and another, and another. Aborting and promiscuity, aborting and promiscuity, adultery aborting and promiscuity.
b) Decide if this person the right person for you; become committed planning ahead for children and that you want to do everything you can possible to nurture your little baby from the day of conception until adulthood.
If you chose “A” you’re insane.
You’ve got to use a little bit of logic JAT….you don’t just assume that people want or should not want to raise a family……..You’re totally out of your mind……..you’ve lost your way!!!!
The most important thing we can teach high school children and college children is to live responsibly…..not go acting like a bunch of apes.
THAT’S WHY WE HAVE A BRAIN, JAT!!!!!!
WE ARE CIVILIZED GOD-BREATHED HUMAN BEINGS!!!
And God says, ‘Anyone who sheds man’s blood, by man, his blood shall be shed.’ and that’s part of the judgement America will reap if they keep allowing murder to happen. God requires the life of any man who murders an innocent person.
And I’m not condemning anyone, just stating the judgement that people will reap if they keep murdering innocent babies. It’s just a fact, no Nation escape God’s judgement. Only those who do His will.
Can’t you understand anything? Oh, that’s right, I forgot…..you’re a liberal, you’re one of the humanist in favor of eugenics.
Ignorance blinds, my friend….open your eyes.
‘That which ye sow, that shall ye also reap.’
58. JustAnotherTaxpayer | June 23rd, 2008 at 2:59 am
Jeremiah,
“I’m not condemning anyone.”
Paragraph 12, post #57
That, sir, is a flat out lie.
Condemnation is in everything you say for condemnation is all you have to offer from the divine. You can’t even point to any experience raising children you might offer to someone whose in trouble.
I agree with you that your self riteous ignorance has blinded you. You don’t know how to answer my question, and clearly your inability to answer me directly troubles you as well it should.
You talk of holding others accountable for lives you yourself would not be willing to take responsibility for, and you know it. And perhaps for the first time you find yourself confronting a real conservative who only asks what you know Christ would be asking: Who will take responsibility for these children?
If these gifts from God are as valuable as you say, you’d be adopting one of the tens of thousands available for adoption. Not shooting your mouth off about what God is going to do.
God can speak quite clearly for Himself. He doesn’t need you or me to announce what He is going to do.
The only thing the almighty wants you tell others is what you are going to do. If you aren’t going to take responsibility for one of these lives, then you need to examine why your so obsessed with telling others why they should. And why your life would be so empty without such a wasteful pursuit.
You are the one in need of a psychiatrist, sir.
Indeed, your thinking has become so clouded in your own quest at self justification that you failed to put the question to me that I put to you. But finding that answer isn’t as important to you as maintaining your position as a one of Gods self appointed spokesman.
I await your answer, and, if you wish, I would be willing to continue this conversation even after this post is relegated to the “older posts” position.
59. Tractatus | June 23rd, 2008 at 11:21 am
So somehow waiting periods for marriage, elimination of no-fault divorce, and sate monitoring right down to “cleaning up” video games (according to whose standards? The market has clearly spoken on this matter, you know) would not be exercising social control? Uh-huh.
Well, I’ll give you this much, Noonan–I figured you’d simply play ignorant and pretend to not understand my point. The fact that you tried (poorly) to explain it away instead is a bit of a surprise.
60. Jeremiah | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:58 pm
That, sir, is a flat out lie.–JustAnotherTaxpayer.
No, you’re assuming therefore falsely accusing me…I’m not condemning anyone. What I just told you is straight from God’s Word, it’s HIS Word, not mine!
Who will take responsibility for these children?
I agree with you that your self riteous ignorance has blinded you.
Good. What then does that make you if you can’t comprehend the truth, and deliberately deny the truth in your quest for murdering the innocent?
You don’t know how to answer my question, and clearly your inability to answer me directly troubles you as well it should.
It doesn’t trouble me at all. I give you an answer but you’re just too ignorant and afraid to acknowledge what I’m telling you is the pure unadulterated truth; and I’ll tell you, I know exactly what you’re trying to do, and that’s create excuses to further lead young people to think that they need not worry about their “unwanted” children, that they can go animalistic and not care about their children…and that’s not right, because young parents should be taught to take responsibility for their actions. By what means? Birth control? No, friend, birth control is not the answer, because birth control puts the sexual desire above responsibility of committment to the family unit and to Life. And anyone who says an different has rocks in their head - God calls them reprobates, they have no sense of right and wrong, which is this generation. Our colleges are full of liberal maniacs who teach that same radical individual liberty, and that’s why we see so much evil in our society today, because liberals have spread their trash all over the place. In essence, by the liberal teachers standards what the final result equals is - No responsibility = unwanted children = welfare = poverty = national dependence on the government = national destruction.
What is abortion? It’s using personal convenience as an excuse to murder, plain and simple. Radical personal autonomy is a national crime and those who teach such are going to suffer.
You talk of holding others accountable for lives you yourself would not be willing to take responsibility for, and you know it.
More accusations? More lies?
It would not bother me in the least, however, I want own children, because they’re part of me, you see. As I and my wife are one in Christ Jesus, and truly want our children and raise them as proud parents. Yes, I would adopt a child, but does that make an excuse for THEIR parents ignorance? Of course not. Again, you’re excusing peoples non-responsibility to be sexual animals. We aren’t created like that stupid, we’re created to make a family work.
And perhaps for the first time you find yourself confronting a real conservative who only asks what you know Christ would be asking:
You’re no “conservative” no, friend, you’re a liberal propagandist with no brains.
Who will take responsibility for these children?
Their parents. And they will learn even though they may not want to, they will when the law is created to be such. LOL! When we’ll you ever crack that egg. You silly ignorant stubborn donkey.
If these gifts from God are as valuable as you say
They most certainly are….What makes you think they aren’t, silly?
you’d be adopting one of the tens of thousands available for adoption.
I will when I get me a wife and we have our own children, kay?
Not shooting your mouth off about what God is going to do.
Just telling you the truth, friend….You can’t comprehend it? Too bad….go see your doctor, he might could help you get some medical assistance. I pity him though. LOL!
God can speak quite clearly for Himself.
He already has, and He’s trying to get you to think. Don’t wait too long, or He’ll turn you loose and then you’ll be in real trouble!
He doesn’t need you or me to announce what He is going to do.
Not so! God needs witnesses to explain to the world that their immortal soul is in need of transformation, to be Christ-like and quit this murdering innocent unborns.
You may not want to proclaim what He is going to do, but I am, because I can see where the country is headed under your WRONG-headed hateful ideology.
The only thing the almighty wants you tell others is what you are going to do.
And that’s what I’m doing, trying to get people like you to understand that life is precious. Jesus said, “Go unto all the world and spread the good news.”
Not like you think - “Some filthy piece of trash.”
If you aren’t going to take responsibility for one of these lives, then you need to examine why your so obsessed with telling others why they should.
If they show that they don’t care for the life they’ve created then they’re in danger of hell-fire, because they’re pursuing the flesh instead of the spirit. It is the responsibility of the mother and father who helped create the little baby.
It’s not just by coincidence that a mother throws her baby away unconscieously, no, not at all, you see, a mother has to plan ahead saying “Ok, I really don’t care about my baby, I’ll show him/her away.” See? And that’s evil. But she has to be taught evil, before she committs evil, and make that choice to commit evil and most usually that’s where the ignorant school teachers factor in.
And why your life would be so empty without such a wasteful pursuit.
My life is just fine, JAT, is your’s? I’ll continue to witness, and some day when I get me a wife, we’ll have little feet pitter-pattering all over the place. And one day, when I’m old and frail I can feel confident without shame that I did my part to raise a family the way God would have me to.
You are the one in need of a psychiatrist, sir.
You need a Psychiatrist? Just go see your doctor about some meds, they’ve got all kinds for all kinds. :)
Indeed, your thinking has become so clouded in your own quest at self justification that you failed to put the question to me that I put to you.
Clouds of mystery and confusion will befall you one day if you continue to harbor the feelings you do for innocent life.
But finding that answer isn’t as important to you as maintaining your position as a one of Gods self appointed spokesman.
I’ve found the answer, friend, and it’s not in the world in kooky hair-brained ideas such as your’s.
The answer is in God’s Word. And He’s clear on His Word.
I await your answer, and, if you wish, I would be willing to continue this conversation even after this post is relegated to the “older posts” position.
Well, you’ve gotten it, there it is…take it or leave it. The risks are your’s, not mine.
As for me, I’m done with this thread, and done with explaining things to you…..you need medical help or something, I don’t know, possibly an Exorcist.
One more thing before I go though…
The gravest problem I see right now concerning this issue, is folks who are spreading misinformation about family issues - i.e. “It’s ok to abort your baby” the self-convenience lie as a means to escape responsibility.
As for those of you who teach that garbage - You need your nose cracked!
Done!
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