MoveOn to Shoot Self in Foot
June 23rd, 2008 at 06:27am Mark Noonan
Bill Kristol notes MoveOn’s new attack ad against McCain:
the organization boasts on its Web site, “This isn’t your average political ad — it lays out the truth about McCain’s Iraq policy in a personal and compelling way.” MoveOn also claims, “We just got the results back and polling shows that voters found it to be more persuasive than any other ad we’ve tested before.”
I’m not persuaded. Having slandered a distinguished general officer, MoveOn has now moved on to express contempt for all who might choose to serve their country in uniform.
Their new and improved message is presented in a 30-second TV spot, “Not Alex,” produced in conjunction with the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. It’s airing for a week on local broadcast stations in markets in the swing states of Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin, and on two national cable channels, with a reported buy of over half a million dollars.
The ad is simple. A mother speaks as she holds her baby boy:
“Hi, John McCain. This is Alex. And he’s my first. So far his talents include trying any new food and chasing after our dog. That, and making my heart pound every time I look at him. And so, John McCain, when you say you would stay in Iraq for 100 years, were you counting on Alex? Because if you were, you can’t have him.”
Take that, warmonger!
Heck, I’ll donate money to get that ad out - I can’t think of anything which might better inform the American people of the nauseating, dishonsest, selfish and defeatist views of the left than this ad. In 7 sentences, it demonstrates how entirely mean spirited and out of touch the left is - after that, its just a matter of the fairly easy task of tying Obama to MoveOn and the rest of the left…and let him either denouce his core supporters, or go down to McGovern-like defeat.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Kook Left, Republicans, War on Terror
98 Comments
1. OpChaosUK | June 23rd, 2008 at 6:38 am
Well, Mark, the Donkaroach pundits, and Barack, have twisted McCain’s “100-year” comments so that the dumbed-down who rely solely on the drive-by media believe them.
Earbama’s no different than anything the Donks have offered their lemmings–he’s another lying lefty…
2. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 23rd, 2008 at 6:55 am
So an advert you could agree with would sound something like this:
“Hi, John McCain. This is Alex. And he’s my first. But as an evangelical woman I know it is my duty to be married first and have as many children as possible. So far his talents include trying any new food and chasing after our dog. That, and making my heart pound every time I look at him. And so, John McCain, when you say you would stay in Iraq for 100 years, were you counting on Alex? Because if you were, you can have him because I honestly think that every Muslim on the planet is trying to kill me and the lifestyle that I have. Stay the course because for the next twenty years I can always have more kids.”
3. french student | June 23rd, 2008 at 7:20 am
did or did not McCain say it was ok by him if there were US soldiers in Iraq for 100 years, provided there was no more fighting there? Did or did he not say that as long as there WAS fighting, US soldiers had to stay in Iraq?
If so, in what is the ad dishonest?
4. Baton Rouge | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:08 am
3. french student | June 23rd, 2008 at 7:20 am
What upsets Noonan is that it appeals to emotion more than anything else.
If the GOP candidate, Senator John McCain would say that “American troops of a force around 75K will be in Iraq in permanent bases for the duration of my presidency” then the whole “100 year” thing would go away. If the actual number of troops needed is 40K it would give him some political wiggle room that allows him to look like a “troop reducer” rather than a “permanent baser.”
If the American people are for such actions then saying it cannot harm you politically can it?
5. Dollardays | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:25 am
When is the last time the neocon Bill “The Bloody Kristol been right about anything? It was his peddling of the administration’s pre-Iraq lies that has made this ad relevant in the first place.
Following the views of such mouthpieces as Kristol, Hannity, Limbaugh and Novak has lead to the erosion of the GOP to the point of near irrelevancy yet the lemmings come back to the trough for more.
6. OpChaosUK | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:50 am
Now Cav, aren’t you being a bit silly? When did John McCain, or anyone else for that matter ever say that every Muslim on this earth was trying to kill them?
This is how you, and your kook friends, paint the GOP and all things not lib. We say 9/11 changed a lot; you say sh*t happens.
At least you’ve cleaned up your writing, “editor…”
7. Magnum Serpentine | June 23rd, 2008 at 9:05 am
WOW the republics are steamed. hehe.
First of all I want to thank Cavalor Epthith for such a super post. It says what the fundamentalist reconstructionist want to the core. Women in the kitchen having babies till age 50, Blind obedience to the republic party president, and no questioning republic party government authority.
The Move-On Ad should be nominated for a Pulitzer. And A Nobel prize. Think I might do that today.
Get over it, Republics, Move on.
8. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 9:25 am
Mags,
Cavs post was super wasn’t it? In fact, I think it was super duper!
Your understanding of conservatism is woefully deficient, as is your knowledge of most everything else politically. So your comments here are seen as the uninformed, immature rants they are.
Re: the ad. I am sure it does appeal to those liberals with strong feminine qualities. Which is most of them.
Just saying
Have a nice day
peace, neocon
9. The New Conservative | June 23rd, 2008 at 9:27 am
Liberals just don’t get it guys. They think anyone who doesn’t agree with them is an extremist. In other words, “I’m not the bigot your the bigot.” tends to be their mantra. This is what gets conservatives so upset. However the best thing to do is to beat them in November like we have been doing for the last 28 years.
http://www.thenewconservatives.blogspot.com/
10. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 23rd, 2008 at 10:25 am
6. OpChaosUK | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:50 am
I do not feel this is silly at all. the idea that Islam wants to destroy America is the stock in trade of the neoconservative. There is a campaign clearly to paint the Muslim as ‘the enemy” and Nazify the religion as if it were a nation state based on the nominal belief that a new “caliphate” must be established. These are not Progressive blog fantasies OpChaosUK, these are commonly read on the blogs of those who support the war in Iraq, John McCain and the GOP.
I still hold that while 9/11 was a tragedy it is no long as important to the view of the future of the Average American as it was a year before Iraq was invaded nor is it as important right now than the economy and inflation fears.
11. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 23rd, 2008 at 10:28 am
8. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 9:25 am
Well that is an interesting peep into your psyche innit?
So you think women are what weak because men impregnate them? So what position you hold during the physical act of sexual penetration is the determination of who gets to be right and wrong on your planet, eh, neocon? I would like to see you give birth to a child and then tell me that women are not as tough as men.
12. OpChaosUK | June 23rd, 2008 at 10:47 am
The Move-On Ad should be nominated for a Pulitzer. And A Nobel prize. Think I might do that today.
Nominations from nobodies aren’t accepted; don’t waste your time.
I do not feel this is silly at all. the idea that Islam wants to destroy America is the stock in trade of the neoconservative.
So that’s what you call right-wing kook extremists. Neocons? Good spin, Cavvie, but you’re wrong. I know you’re a pseudo-journalist and all that, but you’re not very smart. You’re just a left-wing nut who doesn’t know the difference between Islam and radical Islam. That crap may work down there where it’s hot, but it doesn’t fly here.
Well, with Maggot Syrup it does, but hey, he’s a spoof anyway…
13. William Teach | June 23rd, 2008 at 10:55 am
No, actually, Cavalor, that is the stock in trade of the Islamists, who have as much as SAID that they want to destroy the West, starting with America, who they consider to be the great Satan, and usher in a worldwide caliphate based on Sharia law.
If Muslims do not want to be considered the enemy, then perhaps they should start renouncing what others are doing in the name of their religion.
If you choose to hide your head in the sand, that is your right. The people who live in reality land understand that there is actually meaning, and intent, behind the words of the radical islamic leaders.
14. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 10:56 am
Cav,
I know you have a hard time distinguishing the difference between masculine and feminine qualities. That’s very obvious.
And your digression into the sex act says more about your suppressed sexual appetite than anyone elses.
And your earlier posts further solidifies the void of knowledge you possess in regards to conservatives and all things politik. I find it amusing how you’ll go out of your way to excuse morally egregious acts on behalf of Islamic extremists yet you define conservatism by the fringe elements that exist within it’s belief.
This is not only hypocritical, but it smacks of an indoctrinated and pedestrian knowledge of all things outside of the liberal paradigm.
You are transparent, but I still enjoy your posts if only for the comic relief.
have a nice day
peace, neocon
15. Eric T | June 23rd, 2008 at 10:57 am
Wow!
Great Piece from “cut and run.org” they make it sound as if somehow there was a draft we didn’t know about. Most of those troops are proud to be fighting and enlisted after Islamic terrorists flew planes into the Pentagon, Trade Center and murdered a bunch of Americans.
Maybe GOP should do an ad just like that and say. “Obama, this is my kid ect… when you surrender to Al Qaida in Iraq, empowering terrorists with vast wealth from their oil reserves and giving them a chance to regroup and fund more terror. Are my kids going to be safe?
Obama when your party refuses to drill here and insists on keeping us dependent on foreign oil, then these countries filthy rich with petrodollars come here and buy up all our land and businesses. Are my kids going to be safe when you hand over power to them?
We know Obama doesn’t want our wives to be safe at home while we are out working, with his terrible 2nd Amendment record.
We know a fetus is not safe near Obama.
We know marriage and traditional values are not safe with Obama.
We know our wallet is probably not safe with Obama.
16. Kahn | June 23rd, 2008 at 11:00 am
Its all about “IF”.
“IF” we are not being shot at, then what is the harm of having a long term presence in Iraq similar to our presence in Japan, Korea, or Europe?
This is what McCain was talking about. And this is what he in effect said. His words have been purposely twisted by hate filled “liberals”. So, keep up the positive change liberals.
17. Ryan | June 23rd, 2008 at 11:08 am
Is there a draft that was instituted last time I checked? If not, anyone going is a volunteer, and all that woman is seeming to say is “I want to dictate what choices my son is allowed to make”
18. Gabrielle Deroscheres | June 23rd, 2008 at 11:29 am
Deleted - off topic.
19. Fredrick Schwartz | June 23rd, 2008 at 11:35 am
Deleted - off topic.
20. Fredrick Schwartz | June 23rd, 2008 at 11:42 am
Deleted - off topic.
21. Fredrick Schwartz | June 23rd, 2008 at 11:45 am
Deleted - off topic.
22. Ryan | June 23rd, 2008 at 11:46 am
SO, Gabrielle, when was that draft instituted? And tell me a single person in the military who was drafted right now and is also not a legal adult capable of making their OWN choices?
23. SEW | June 23rd, 2008 at 11:54 am
Gabrielle, it would be you that inferred, not neocon.
Usage Note: Infer is sometimes confused with imply, but the distinction is a useful one. When we say that a speaker or sentence implies something, we mean that it is conveyed or suggested without being stated outright: When the mayor said that she would not rule out a business tax increase, she implied (not inferred) that some taxes might be raised. Inference, on the other hand, is the activity performed by a reader or interpreter in drawing conclusions that are not explicit in what is said: When the mayor said that she would not rule out a tax increase, we inferred that she had been consulting with some new financial advisers, since her old advisers were in favor of tax reductions.
24. SEW | June 23rd, 2008 at 12:07 pm
“. Being silent no matter how harshly critical or caustic they are in their language is unacceptible to Progressives.
All the Right Wing bullies can do is swear, insult, appeal to faux patriotism, use brave soldiers doing their duty as pawns and try to shove religion down your throats. We have the truth.” Gaby
So are you inferring Schwartz is a right wing bully? Read post 20 and 21. Or are you a liar? The later it is.
25. Gabrielle Deroscheres | June 23rd, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Deleted - off topic.
26. Cavalor Epthith, Esquire, D.S.V.J. | June 23rd, 2008 at 12:15 pm
I would appeal to our hosts that the comments of my head of research be deleted post haste. It appears that some rather caustic e mails have been sent his way and the man became agitated having assumed someone here was the source.
We are investigating the matter further. It is one thing gentlemen to to be fervent in one’s ideology it is wholly another to insult the minor children of a presidential candidate solely because of their race.
My sincerest apologies if anyone has been offended but I concur with my man’s anger and outrage in full.
27. SEW | June 23rd, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Sounds like the libs found the stash of vicodin and cocoa this weekend.
28. '08ama | June 23rd, 2008 at 12:46 pm
If all you warmongers would just stop TALKING about war and killing them evil terrorists over there and instead ENLIST in the military so that our troops in Iraq can get some well-deserved REST, then Alex’s mom wont have to worry about McSame sending her son to Iraq to die for a lie….. and some oil of course.
29. Bigfoot | June 23rd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
And so, John McCain, when you say you would stay in Iraq for 100 years, were you counting on Alex? Because if you were, you can’t have him.
The mother is holding “her baby boy”. While no particular age is given, the term “baby” implies that the boy in the ad is still very young. This would mean that if John McCain is elected twice and serves two terms, the boy will be about 10 years old when McCain steps down. Thus, McCain will never get to “have” Alex, because Alex will be too young to serve in the military during McCain’s (potential) presidency. Perhaps the people at MoveOn should take a course in remedial arithmetic.
30. \'08ama | June 23rd, 2008 at 12:55 pm
So, the radical religeous fundementalists here are a little ‘upset’ that McSame’s “100 years in Iraq” quote may have been taken slightly out of context ?
not fair aint it ?
we hear ya.
31. '08ama | June 23rd, 2008 at 1:00 pm
They keep dropping the standards for enlisting in the military. It wont be long before 10-year-olds are “allowed” to enlist with the promise of ice cream and matchbox cars when they get out.
If America truly felt that this war was necessary, legal and just, they would have to turn people down at the recruiting stations.
32. Fredrick Schwartz | June 23rd, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Deleted - off topic.
33. Eric T | June 23rd, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Vicoden and Cocoa-
Cool name, Tear it up dude!!!
I live on the border of Detroit, my garage was just broken into, my neighbors house broken into twice. Detroit murder rate is very high, and the mayor is laying off cops because he wasted a bunch of city money on a whistle-blower/scandal case.
You got a trusting, positive upbeat attitude, maybe its the vicoden and cocoa. but, I don’t agree with you, I know the % is much higher than 0% , there are some crackhead fiends up here that will do anything for a fix. I’ve gotten robbed before bro. You can’t tell me that shit like that just don’t happen. Your world of peace and love and happiness is just the buzz you got from the vicoden.
34. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Gabrielle sweetie,
Evidently being sarcastic goes right over your empty little head. But it does explain how you buy hook line and sinker into the liberal rhetoric.
I made the Condi comment in response to a liberal poster who mused that all neocons look alike. Hence my Condi response.
I obviously need to dumb things down for you. Duly noted.
35. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
The paranoid middle class Americans??
Do you always generalize Vicodin?
Maybe it’s the diminsishing brain capacity. And I know several police officers that will tell you that a gun is a huge deterent and seldom needs to be fired.
But hey, I am just a typical white person. What do we know.
peace, neocon
36. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Gaby impled that I masqueraded on this site as a black woman. If she had reading comprehension whatsoever, or if you did for that matter, you’d realize how completely wrong that was. My empty headed assertion stands, and now applies to two.
And why did you bring up “racial shift”. Is your balck and white Mr V. Pity.
peace, neocon
37. SEW | June 23rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Vicodin, you want an apology for “empty little head” yet stand by your team’s comments in 20, 21 and 36?
Good luck with that assinine request and standing by your team of empty heads.
38. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Mr V,
The officers I know were speaking of civilians who carry guns as deterents, not about themselves.
It’s that reading comprehension thing.
And the diminishing brain capacity was said in jest. Don’t get your panties in a bunch.
You know I will say one more thing about context vis a vis the Condi comment. That comes from the same lemmings who are all in an uproar over taking Obama out of context. Do you see the hypocrisy in that?
peace, neocon
peace, neocon
39. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I am an American Mr V, nothing more, nothing less. I have never considered my skin color to be a defining attribute. I am sorry you do.
peace, neocon
40. Eric T | June 23rd, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Vicoden-
What is your site???
41. HeyNow | June 23rd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Hilarious….Look up how many times Bill Kristol has gotten it wrong , wrong, wrong. He has been wrong wrong wrong so many times on the most important issues its astounding.
42. Fredrick Schwartz | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Deleted - off topic.
43. Fredrick Schwartz | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Deleted - off topic.
44. Pain | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
We think that it is really a high move of comedy that words can be attribted to Barack Obama that he did not say and the people here on the Right in politics think that is fine and an add that tugs at the heartstrings of women and mothers is “dishonest, selfish and defeatist.”
Noonan ask your priest what he thinks of the war in Iraq for Us will you? We would love, Collectively, to know the response!
45. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Fredrick darling,
You post that litany of bile and then you accuse me of being the hater???????
The comic relief coming from you pitchforkers is second to none. Keep up the dementia.
Re: the ad, I think it was mentioned previously, but worth a second mention. That is that our military is ALL VOLUNTEER. So, why is the mother denying her child his pro-choice right?
Seems anti-liberal to me. But hey i am just typical white person.
peace, neocon
46. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:33 pm
So apologize to Gabrielle Mr. V.
I guess you couldn’t get it up last night? Sorry.
peace, neocon
47. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:35 pm
“I’ve got a box full of flies …..” Frederick
Wow, and I thought Pain was wierd.
peace, neocon
48. Fredrick Schwartz | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Deleted - off topic.
49. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Why would anyone be offended by your comments Freddy. Usually one has to be deemed competent and informed before any comments are considered offensive. You don’t meet the standard.
Hey, but you got your box of flies…..
peace, neocon
50. Some Assembly Required | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:47 pm
59. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:32 pm
The point being, do you really want your Child to have that choice?
People get their kids birth control and teach them safe sex to avoid the choice of abortion. People advocate against the war so their children will not have to face the same kinds of choices they face.
Care to spin again?
51. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 3:51 pm
SAR,
What is spinning about the military being all voluntary? And since it is voluntary, people have the right to choose. Isn’t that what liberals stand for? Pro-choice?
I was honored when my nephews chose the military. They are two of the finest young men I know.
peace, neocon
52. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Vicodin,
What was that??? You fell off the cliff quickly amigo.
Probably not enough sleep
peace, neocon
53. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 4:04 pm
OK, YES, I want people to have choices.
You don’t???
peace, neocon
54. Fredrick Schwartz | June 23rd, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Deleted - off topic, commenter to be banned.
55. DM | June 23rd, 2008 at 4:17 pm
neocon,
I take my hat off to you. I don’t know how you maintain such poise in the light of such ignorance. I offer my personal thanks for your continued posts and input, especially given your unique choice of words that amplifies just how illogical, ignorant or hate filled those who oppose your views are.
SAR,
64. & 67. Some of the stupidest post yet.
Vicodin-N-Cocoa and Fredrick Schwartz, I hope the moderator will quickly get around to banning both of you for your very distasteful vulgarity.
56. Jeremiah | June 23rd, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Pssst….Hey Mark, What’s with letting these mongrels post here?
57. js | June 23rd, 2008 at 4:23 pm
shoot….we have spent 60 years in Germany…..its not so bad!!!
58. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Vicodin has revealed himself to be the immature, mentally deficient liberal I suspected him to be. Nothing more, nothing less. Run of the mill.
peace, neocon
59. amused observer | June 23rd, 2008 at 4:53 pm
From a self-identified liberal:
Mark, ban Vicodin-N-Cocoa and Fredrick Schwartz. I am embarrassed by these dumb pieces of trash. Although, if you do want to make liberals look bad, let them keep talking. That’s all they’re doing right now. The blog they link to is an even worse example of brain damage and lack of class. To the two of you: please, just quit.
60. Kahn | June 23rd, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Vicodin wrote: “You’re full of White Pride. You tell me what I am.”
Easy. You’re a dipshit.
Next?
This invasive noise is interesting. Since they have no legs to stand on in the argument, they effectively shout down the conservatives with these inane posts.
If there is no-one shooting at us in Iraq, why leave? Wouldn’t the same arguments that keep (note, not just kept) us in Europe, Korea, and Japan apply to that region?
You WANT Israel to whack Iran? You want Iran to seize the southern oil fields? You care about embarrassed Iraqi prisoners but not dead Iraqi babies? Point is, you’re deliberately misstating McCains position and your whole argument is a lie.
Change. Great. Keep it up. Goebbels would be proud.
61. amused observer | June 23rd, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Yes, that’s how I personally lost to George W. Bush. Good god you’re getting more retarded by the second. Until you realize that public perception and unwritten social rules (read: not being a stupid douche) are crucial to advancing any kind of legislative agenda, there’s no point in trying to talk to you. Go vote for Nader and yell to the rooftops how brave and free-spirited you are for speaking truth to power.
62. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Mr V,
When did I run to the authorities? You have the wrong person there son.
I would never shy away fro you Mr V. I could drink you under the table and outwit you at the same time. So it’s a win-win for me.
peace, neocon
63. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Mr V,
All of sudden you have tough skin? You screamed like a little girl the other day when someone mentioned Hitler.
What changed? Your meds?
peace, neocon
64. amused observer | June 23rd, 2008 at 5:25 pm
You plan to give generously to Obama’s campaign? Put your money where your mouth is. I already did, not to mention “two-stepping” for him in the Texas “primacaucus” and blockwalking. So your attempts to burnish your liberal credentials are unimpressive. For all our sakes, please never return to the states.
65. amused observer | June 23rd, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Also, as another note, apparently the meaning of my earlier comments has escaped you. It’s not about changing your ideas to kowtow to people. It’s about expressing your ideas in a way that enriches the public debate and actually tries to persuade people. Not, you know, being you.
66. Eric T | June 23rd, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Vicoden and Cocoa-
In #44 you pose a challenge for a competition based on intellect.
This site likes to keep it PG-13, filthy language and stuff like you find on the wall at a truck stop will get you thrown out. It is serious political stuff we talk about here, so serious langauge is required, the junior high kinda of insults gives a site a real low class, toilet, sewer kinda feel, it is real unnecessary to get a point across. You wanna real political debate?
Here is a challenge- Affirmative action, how do you end racism with racism? How do you end discrimination with discrimination?
67. Kahn | June 23rd, 2008 at 5:34 pm
The Goebbels reference was about embracing a lie and spouting propaganda. If you think you’re acting like a Nazi just because I point out certain factual parallels, maybe you should examine your tactics.
Still though, how many more point NOT talking about the deliberate distortion of McCains point and NOT discussing the long term security picture in that region.
No, your indignance is feigned and your tactics are deception and distraction. I stand by my dipshit appraisal. Which you didn’t deny, by the way.
If they are not shooting at us, how are the arguments for staying in Europe (now including the Balkans!), Japan, or Korea any different?
The next completely off topic post from the left will illustrate my point. Thanks in advance.
68. Some Assembly Required | June 23rd, 2008 at 5:43 pm
DM, granted my post was thoughtless drivel just for a gotcha, but it’s truly pointless debating with some people such as Neocon, js, jeremiah… etc. You show them facts they call it propaganda and resort to personal insults or baited questions in an attempt to spark some emotional confrontation. Also, if you think my post was one of the more stupid ones here, there is truly no hope for you. Shoot, this blog has gotten completely and ridiculously stupid. It should be named ‘Blogs of Hypoc(R)isy
Incidentally, I’m Jewish, or at least I would be to Hitler. I was raised in a religiously neutral home. My parents didn’t feel the need to instill their religion onto me, sure we went to church on Sundays when I was a young tot, but they let me decide for myself what to believe. Ultimately they supported my choice not to be confirmed once I told them what I thought of religion and the horrible things which had been done is its name, after I learned about the crusades among other things. I envy people with faith, I really do, it’s just not for me. However, for those of you who choose to push your beliefs on others, including myself, I will not hold my tongue as to what I think of your beliefs.
The Jewish side of my family lost nearly everything worth anything in WWII. Those who didn’t made it across to Canada and kept their beliefs secret until about a week before their deaths fearing the rest of the world thought as Hitler did. What my great uncle went through I would never be able to fathom.
I went on a bit of a rant there, it just chaps my ass when I read negative re-marks towards anyone whose Jewish.
69. SEW | June 23rd, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Deleteed - obscenity.
70. FmrMarine | June 23rd, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Mark;
I think we need to RE-NAME this blog—-the pitchforkers from HELL’s disruptor blog.
Other than 3 or 4 regulars these creation, Ainti Christian, pro gay agenda, pornographers, serial post here in an attempt to hi-jack the entire blog.
It is nothing but arguments from non citizens, perverts, and drug heads, about OUR country and OUR conservative politics.
71. FmrMarine | June 23rd, 2008 at 6:17 pm
sar
Quite frankly I now understand the holocaust happened.
Watching the millions of Jew’s in our country tow the marxist line us unbelievable! Marxism killed more Jews than hitler did and yet why you cling to that belief is really baffling.
Now the non Isreali Jews defend islam…..WTF ?
You guys scream a Jer with the fowlest mouthes ever and ole schwartzie is the filthiest.
No surprise about the NYC demographics there.
72. SEW | June 23rd, 2008 at 6:18 pm
FmrMarine,
How about Mental Sanatorium United Front?
73. Some Assembly Required | June 23rd, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Vic,
I agree with what your saying about Hagee Lieberman, etc.. The common cliche comes to mind when I heard those names, ‘Theres a sucker born every minute’ Anyone who grossly profits from faith is anything but religious.
Though I do feel a sense of pride in where I come from. My great uncle (Mentioned earlier) survived 4 different concentration camps until he was liberated from Auschwitz by the Russians during WWII. Theres a feeling a strength that comes from that knowledge. Though it’s inconceivable to me, just knowing what my family and the Jewish people are capable of surviving often fills me with pride.
Saying that, my personal feelings regarding Israel are very simple. Eliminate the holy grounds for the Jewish, Christian and Islamic faiths.
Aside from my wacky belief, I’d agree with your assessment of ‘I see Israel as a European and pan-Semitic parliamentary democracy as well as a Jewish state.’
I think Tel Aviv would be a much better capital instead of Jerusalem. I see Jerusalem now synonymous with Israel which in turn is synonymous with the Jewish faith. Moving the Capital to Tel Aviv may quell some of the hatred and allow for more of a ‘kibbutzim of all idelogies’ with less conflict. IMO.
I think the US should step away from unwaivering support of Israel for it’s own benefit, but still be good allies.
74. FmrMarine | June 23rd, 2008 at 6:21 pm
>>>>why you cling to that belief is really baffling.>>
Marxism is what I inferred- not Judaism.
I believe Christianity and Judaism are inseparable.
75. Eric T | June 23rd, 2008 at 7:16 pm
SAR-
When that guy from Iran talks about wiping Israel off the map. Do you think that is just populist rhetoric or do you feel those threats are serious?
76. FmrMarine | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:04 pm
vic
>>>And you hate Fred and me for being Jewish New Yorkers>>>
vic take another totem and a hit from the bong….
tsk tsk I never stated I hated any Jew, some of my closest buds are Jews.
You are typical new york loudmouths and I understand that well,
If you are Jewish that is beside the point.
Foul mouths yes…just check your last post BINGO point proven.
What about YOUR military experience? Do you live your life through rotten fred? or are you a real man?
WHEN and WHERE did YOU serve??
YEAH I thought so!
My understanding how the holocaust took place was not a slam I meant that as a people the Jewish community at large seem to be oblivious to imminent danger.
Russia murdered more Jews than hitler yet many American Jews embrace marxism under the disguise of liberalism, While Christians seeks to protect your heritage, islam seeks to destroy it yet every day you spew here and on your website anti Christian hate.
77. Vicodin-N-Cocoa | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Eric T:
I know Ahmedinejad was employing populist rhetoric because if he were serious he would have started by wiping out the 100,000 Persian Jews in Teheran.
78. Some Assembly Required | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Eric, That guy (Mahmoud Ahmadinejad) that you refer to does not have as much power in Iran as Ayatollah Ali Khamenei who commands the armed forces. So, for him to say something like that would be say the equivalent of Rummy saying he wants to nuke Iran. Sure it’s shocking, but only the president can sanction such a thing in the US. In Addition, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a Muslim. His most holy place of worship lies in Jerusalem. From what you portray, he would destroy Israel and with it his place of worship. Will not happen. Now, does he want to eliminate all the people of Jewish faith in Israel, that I believe we could argue. Personally I think his hatred is directed more towards the Zionist than your average run of the mill Jewish person.
As for his threat being serious. These countries / religious zealots have been at each others throats for centuries. So of course I take it seriously, but your forgetting one major thing Eric, he threatened Israel and not America. Sure they are our ally, but they are more then capable of defending themselves and dealing with their own problems. The best thing we can do is take our ignorance out of play and watch things unfold.
Vic, by no means am I a scholar of the ME or Israeli affairs, though I do think I have some concept of what is going on over there. The closest I’ve been so far is visiting relatives from England to Spain. I very much intend to take in those religious sites I disdain so much someday, just not this summer. I will say this though, the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona is truly something. A money pit, but it is absolutely incredible from an architectural and structural stand point. IMO
79. FmrMarine | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:38 pm
vicodrug
Imaginary Marine!
YAWN ya de ya ! whatevrrrrr.
believe what you want.
I know who and what i am, and you and little freddy putz show everyday what you are.
80. Eric T | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Vicoden-
I went to your site, pretty hardcore stuff. Do alot of women post on that site? The Anti-Christian material that your link directed me reminded me of the hate for Christians the leftists and liberals have. The hypocrisy is when Obama or Hillary cater to you guys, then go campaign in a church.
Back to the Affirmative action and preferential treatment for minorities. The protected groups have hate crimes bills shielding them from anything they find offensive. To me it seems as if Christians are the only group that is allowed to be hated to give you an example look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luR8032I6UU
A mainstream heavy metal song called “kill the Christians.”
I’d be glad to bet that replacing the word Christians with Jews, Blacks, Muslims, Homosexuals, or any other ethnic group or religion would result in lawsuits and would be immediately censored. Artist’s free speech and 1st Amendment rights are quickly ignored when minorities are offended. The ACLU is fast with a lawsuit, and all hell breaks loose. But why is it OK to hate me and other christians????
81. FmrMarine | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
vnc
so the family now……cant take the heat?
I wont trade family insults with a person of your values- which are clearly lacking.
even cee asked Mark to take little freddy putzs posts down and apologized for them.
You have proven to be as simple as he is.
your posts speak volumes for them selves, as well as your sick “friends” and your looney little blog.
82. Eric T | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Vic-
I used to work with a guy that told me some stories of the violence he encountered with the Arabs when he lived there, real brutal stuff, they’d come over and shoot up a wedding, him and his group would go tie them up to railroad tracks, and it just kept going back and forth, ect… I could ramble on about his stories for a while. But they are his stories.
83. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Mr V,
The chains of dangerous stereotypes have kept you bound a long time man.
You wear your religion on your sleeve, and you define others by race, creed, or color. As do the other pitchforkers in a very sad “collective” ignorance.
Diversityis not within race, creed, or color. Diversity is within thought.
The group think that your ilk perpetuate and stereotype will only serve to keep the divisions and the violence alive. You’re actually accomplishing nothing.
Have a nice day
peace, neocon
84. Eric T | June 23rd, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Vic-
You might like this, go to
Snuffx.com
there is a video clip on the left side of the home page called “Head F@%$” you gotta see it.
If you wanna see the answer to feminism go to “House of Gord”
85. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Au contraire Mr V,
I actually voted for Clinton in ‘92, and regretted it ever since though. I also enjoy listening to and/or reading Juan Williams, Fareed Zakaria, Bob Bechel, and I use to enjoy Molly Ivins from time to time. I seldom agreed with them, but found their arguments worthy.
Voting for Obama would definitely put you in the liberal category, and you would be ignoring every financial conservative impulse you ever had. That’s just undeniable.
Don’t be so tied up in knots over evangelicals, they’re a small minority, but you seem to be awfully leery of them.
Incidentally, I have tried a post at the pitchfork and it’s taking a day and half to post. Maybe freddy needs a new server?
And Freddy definitely needs a new vocabulary. His is quite pedestrian and vulgar. Not very well educated I presume.
peace, neocon
86. Eric T | June 23rd, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Vic-
in#129 you say
I don’t want to be told there’s only one way to think.
I think this describes the leftists pushing evolution, and all this nauseating political correctness, their sales pitch for gun bans or gay marriage. I think Obama could just be the worst candidate the democrats ever fielded.
87. Kahn | June 23rd, 2008 at 9:42 pm
So, according to Vico, SAR is THE authority on Iran and Israel.
And SAR said that Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has the REAL power as he commands the military. So no worries there.
But, well Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is a total whack job just as bad as Ahmadinejad.
And Khamenei is your shining example of sanity? Your excuse for bailing in the face of victory? Nothing bad is going to happen in the region because Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is the rock of reason in the region?
Well allrighty then. Thanks for explaining that with your enormous liberal brains.
88. Eric T | June 23rd, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Vic-
you wanna see what a good economic plan looks like?
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/4dbd2cc7-890e-47f1-882f-b8fc4cfecc78.htm
89. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Well Mr V,
Blogger sign in is currently unavailable. However I will soon join the debate with that illustrious, demented, juvenile, indoctrinated, prejudiced group you have over there.
It’ll be fun.
90. neocon | June 23rd, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Vicodin,
You need to learn the difference between religion and spirituality. You do have an understanding of what God is and if you just quieted your mind sometime, you’d hear it. Thank about it. God has always been internal and yet people keep looking outwards for Him.
When did Obama say he was against gay marriage? I must’ve missed that. What I believe he said was that it should be a state issue.
And McCain’s plan is honest in it’s brevity. A President has little direct control over the economy, but the fact that McCain will be tougher on earmarks and reckless spending, that savings alone could improve the economy.
And keeping taxes low encourages growth and spending, that’s an nearly irrefutable fact. Granted there are other conditions but that’s 90% of it. What Obama also fails to realize that are the people he’s looking to target, the 150K - $250K group, are the majority of small business owners throughout the nation. These are the people that employ and pay taxes. They will be hit the hardest. What do you think that will do to the economy of small towns everywhere?
91. Kahn | June 24th, 2008 at 12:50 am
vico, but McCain is against a gun ban. So you agree with him on that… yes?
And you’re against nuclear energy and more drilling and more wind power? Really?
How’d your man Obama vote on Teddy Kennedy’s wind farm restriction bill? Better check it out.
Socialism is not the answer.
92. Some Assembly Required | June 24th, 2008 at 7:41 am
88. Kahn | June 23rd, 2008 at 9:42 pm
In other words, we poke holes in your talking points so now you must try to make us look incompetent by suggesting things we did not say. I was addressing Eric’s question of if I believed what Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said to be serious. I was not speaking to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei sanity. Now, if you have proof that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has the capability of making good on his word without Ayatollah Ali Khamenei please enlighten me and I’ll eat my words.
I have to ask, do you even read what I wrote? It’s questions like this that make me wonder.
Your excuse for bailing in the face of victory? Nothing bad is going to happen in the region because Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is the rock of reason in the region?
I said I take Mahmoud Ahmadinejad threat seriously. What didn’t you understand about that? I also said this has been going on for centuries. It’s not about one man or another. As long as you think it is, failure is all you will find in the region. I think we should let Israel fight their own battles. As you have just proved, our ignorance will only muddy up the waters.
Kahn, I’ll ask you please do not misrepresent what I say. If you have some knowledge of the region that I am not privy to by all means enlighten me. I assume you have the intellect to debate reasonably.
93. Danish Artist | June 24th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
So the liberal party will fight to keep Alex from dying in a war.
Also, the liberal party will fight to allow Alex to die because of a “choice”.
Die from a war? Horrible.
Die from an abortion? It’s okay.
Now if some pro-life group did the same type of ad against Obama, the liberals will be out of control with offense and outrage.
But once again, liberal smears are concerns. The truth revealed about liberals are smears.
94. 42 | June 24th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
“So the liberal party will fight to keep Alex from dying in a war.
Also, the liberal party will fight to allow Alex to die because of a “choice”.”
Hey genius, Alex can’t be aborted, he was already born…if you’re going to comment, at least pretend you know what is going on
95. Kahn | June 24th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
SAR, you said the ayatolla had the power so discount the threats, yes? But he makes the same threats, yes? So - why discount the threats.
Do you understand your own posts?
If Obama is elected, I expect an immediate war between Israel and Iran BEFORE the innauguration.
96. Danish Artist | June 25th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
42,
don’t be an ass. Since we are talking about “what ifs”.
I was stating that the party claims to protect children and at the same time they protect the so called right to an abortion. How is that protecting a child?
But an ignorant fool such as yourself can’t think outside the box. Show a sign of intelligence if you are going to comment. I apologize for writing something that is clearly over your head. In grade school how long did it take to get past the letter “A”?
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