The TrackBack specification was created by Six Apart, who first implemented it in their Movable Type blogging software in August

For a totally well researched paper that argues how the US could produce 10% of its power needs from solar by 2025 (8% PV, 2% concentrated solar thermal), see the Utility Solar Assessment (USA) Study, June 2008. (www.solarcatalyst.com/utilitysolarstudy.pdf)

As an aside, and as a Canadian, it always hurts me see see how much energy some people waste being rude, sarcastic, and harsh to each other, instead of having a calm and intelligent debate. But then hey, I’m British and Canadian, so what do I know?

30,000 square miles is only a square 173.2 miles by 173.2 miles. Just a drop in the bucket of the desert lands in the southwest. I had no idea we were talking about such a small amount of area.

But solar isn’t the ONLY part of the solution. We can put windmills all over the place. And we can put micro generators in streams, creeks, and rivers.

Nuclear breeder reactors could supplement and help smooth the supply. We’ll still need oil and natural gas for some transportation needs and for plastics and other petroleum based product.

So in short, I’m for it all. More oil, more wind, more hydro, more solar, everything. I’m even for coal if it can be clean. And bio also, so long as it doesn’t intrude on the food supply.

But, is that the liberal plan? I don’t think so.

The liberal plan is to force oil companies to drill for oil in leased areas where there isn’t oil. And, to tax them. And to investigate speculators ( I wonder if they’re checking up on George Soros, he has a felony history in this area). I see them saying they want to unilaterally modify NAFTA - an agreement with the two nations supplying the bulk of our oil.

I don’t see how any of these actions lead to additional or different energy sources.

I don’t see liberals doing anything to promote nuclear, solar, wind, or hydroelectric power.

There is indeed. But the point is, the guys in the solar industry don’t have designs on just hundreds of square miles, they have designs on THOUSANDS of square miles. Actually, tens of thousands of square miles. Scientific American recently ran an extensive article that (as I recall) indicated that in order to supply the US with 70% of its electricity with solar power it would require (at the efficiencies of present solar conversion products) about 30,000 square miles to be covered in some combination of mirrors or PV cells.

That’s a bunch, and something that has to be considered seriously. On the other hand, it might be worth while to put it in perspective. For one thing, how does it compare to coal strip mines? I dunno. Do you? How about the tar sands projects in Alberta? I hear that the tar sands projects have already denuded an area (of what was once mostly arboreal forest, by the way) the size of Florida. I looked it up: Forida is 58,664 sq miles. That’s an even bigger bunch. Just the tailing ponds now occupy 130 sq km, and they are incredibly toxic. If a ducky so much as lands in one it’s bye bye ducky. Among the residents of the area, rare forms of cancer aren’t so rare anymore. Because of the seepage of the exposed compounds from the pits themselves into the atmosphere the surrounding forests are also suffering. Oh, and don’t eat the fish. In fact, don’t drink the water. In short, if Alberta doesn’t get their butts in gear PDQ they have a disaster of epic proportions in the making. The oil companies keep saying that everything will be fine, and eventually they’ll work things out. And maybe they will. I wouldn’t rule it out. The trouble is, it’s nowhere close to a guarantee, either. Did I mention that those tailing ponds now occupy 130 sq km? You can see them from space. Originally it was thought that the toxic solids would simply precipitate out as the water leached out of the tailing ponds into the ground water. And to an extent it has, but not nearly to the extent anticipated. And that is exceedingly fortunate in retrospect, because it has prevented Alberta from becoming an obvious disaster of epic proportions in the present tense into one of a potential disaster of epic proportions in the future. That’s a good thing. It means there’s still time.

I think it stands to reason that no matter what choices are made they are going to be difficult. And no matter what the choice it can’t possibly be the best alternative for everyone or everything involved. On another site I visit frequently one of the posters featured a bit by the recently deceased George Carlin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw
The bit was all about the absurdity of saving the planet. It was great because he hid, right out in the open and in front of everyone, the essential irony in what he was saying. And that is this: the planet isn’t going anywhere — WE are. And if we don’t come to grips with the difference, eventually the planet will “shake us off like a bad case of fleas.” And if we don’t, according to him the answer to the question of “why are we here?” is likely to be “plastic”. Lol! It’s a great bit, not to mention food for thought

Personally I think that land was just sitting there before so I have no qualms letting others put up their solar plants there. I wish them the best of luck making whatever they can off of them.

From what I’ve seen (since I AM looking at putting solar panels on my house) we here in deserts are the only ones who get good returns on solar panels. Everyone else seems to get screwed due to operating temperatures and such.

Now I can only go by the sales information and such like this:

http://www.akeena.net/cm/Residential_Solar_Power/What_Size_System_Do_I_Need.html

Typical San Francisco Bay Area Solar Power System
There is an average of 5.5 hours of full sun per day at a 70% annualized efficiency for a well designed solar energy systems. With 18 high output modules, each producing 160 watts peak, this solar energy system will generate approximately 4,000 kwh per year — or about $935 worth of energy per year at current rates.

Typical New York/New Jersey/ New England Area Solar Power System
There is an average of 4.6 hours of full sun per day at a 70% annualized efficiency for well designed systems. With 17 high output modules (lower operating temperatures reduce the number of modules you can install on a single inverter), each producing 160 watts peak, this system will generate approximately 3,200 kwh per year — or about $384 worth of energy per year at current rates.

That’s of course assuming you’ve got room for that many panels (most folks probably do), your power usage occurs doing these times (or you’ve got some sort of battery storage system set-up to use this power later), and your zoning even allows for them.

There are lots of folks in my area using solar panels and every one of them continues to need the power off of the grid. While it is possible to become a “zero sum” energy user the grid energy is still needed to make up the difference when your solar panels aren’t working or you’re using more power than normal.

Solar is great, I’m not knocking it, but it’s not the end all and be all of power generation.

This could be done here, in Africa, Asia,and Australia. Actually - Antarctica is desert also. It’s just that the snow that has fallen doesn’t go anywhere.

1. Buy an American made pistol and ammunition
2. Will all your belongings to the government
3. Shoot yourself

It is only your greed and selfishness that keeps you from doing it.

Personally, I think the truth lies somewhere in between. I recognize that potentially covering hundreds of square miles of desert with mirrors really is worth serious study. But at the same time I do wonder about the whole moratorium part of it, and whether it might be politically motivated. But on the basis of what I know a present, though it sounds like a set-back, it’s not a deal-killer. If anything, the bigger deal-killer by far would be if congress fails to extend the ITC (or replace it with something of a similar sort) before it expires in Dec. If that happens, many hundreds of millions of investment dollars already in the pipeline will fall out of the pipeline. And if that happens the moratorium won’t have much of an effect. And if that happens it will set back the industry far more than a two-year moratorium would.

Also keep in mind that there is no reason in the world why the moratorium can’t be easily revisited by the next president. Despite all the apparent hand-wringing in the industry and elsewhere, I think everyone gets it. On the other hand, tailing to extend the ITC (or coming up with a viable alternative in the interrim) is A..Very..Big..Deal. That would be much harder to recover from.

While reading through the comments on this thread I was encouraged to see that most people, regardless of their political persuasion, get how important it is to keep solar technology in play. So my advice would be to contact your congresscritters and tell them to KNOCK IT OFF!! Tell them to get their poo together and stop throwing it at each other. This is way too important. Don’t kill this industry for the sake of scoring cheap political points.