With Manly Firmness
July 4th, 2008 at 12:00pm Mark Noonan
The phrase is in our Declaration of Independence - used to describe how our ancestors had resisted the attempts of King George to invade the rights of the people. Can you imagine anyone in America uttering such a phrase in 2008? And yet, there it is - in the primary American document. We are, in a sense, afraid to use the words our ancestors wrote and pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to defend. And, lets also understand that words like “sacred” and “honor” are, while not banned as completely as “manly”, are certainly rarely used. What has become of us?
This concern over words used has been turning over in my mind for some days now - I was reading a book by G. K. Chesterton where he discussed the issue of birth control. The thing is, he called it as it was, and although I am 43 years old and fairly well informed, I had never approached the issue from Chesterton’s angle - the correct angle, as it is. You see, it isn’t the control of birth which is desired by “birth control” advocates, but the prevention of birth. Birth Control would actually be the process whereby we control who is allowed to give birth and when - but, of course, that is not what is wanted. What is wanted, by the advocates, is a smaller number of births. But they call it birth control, and even we who are opposed to the basic concept call it birth control…we’ve all bought into a cowardly way of avoiding the real issue because to confront the real issue would require a great deal of courage and a sublime disdain of the modern pieties.
Our whole society has become unmanned, and this is revealed in the way we deal with issue after issue. If three men who live on the street are, respectively, insane, alchoholic and shiftless, we don’t call them what they are - they are all “homeless”. Abortion is a “choice”; men who suffer from the awesome mental and spiritual weight of battle suffer from “post-traumatic stress disorder”; rape is “sexual assault”; we can murder by degrees (he isn’t so bad, he only committed second degree murder…please un-remember that the person is first degree dead, all the same)…we can no longer, in America, oppose tyrants with manly firmness…we’re not allowed to. To be manly in our firmness is forbidden…blow up our citizens, rape our daughters, butcher our unborn children - we can’t be manly in our opposition. We are to ask politely if those oppressing us will please leave us alone.
The first step in the recovery of our society is going to have to be the recovery of our manliness - our ability, even amongst women (you ladies aren’t off the hook here, ya know?), to call things as they are and demand they stop in clear, ringing tones which leave no doubt as to where we stand. The late, great Pope John Paul II advised us early in his pontificate that we should be not afraid - and that is, indeed, what we must be. And JPII, by the way, resisted with manly firmness the depraved spirit of our current age. Politely and with love, he yet managed to make himself clear and stand firm for what is right - and that is the model we must take.
Take that first step - without being rude or seeking opportunities to stir up ill will, yet always state clearly and concisely exactly what you believe is happening. Let us start to be as manly as our ancestors, and make them proud we are their descendents.
Ed. Note: This first appeared over at Battle Born Politics last year.
Entry Filed under: General Government
24 Comments Add your own
1. FmrMarine | July 4th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Mark;
>>>With Manly Firmness>>>
CAMON……we can have WAY to much fun with a thread named thusly! LOL
2. Magnum Serpentine | July 4th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
This whole post is only the opinion of the author.
Next.
3. Robert | July 4th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Mark, do you not understand, have you never seen examples of the phrase “violence begets violence?”
Sometimes standing up to others requires a more quiet approach. Sometimes in real life, when you beat up the bully, they then come against you twice as hard, waiting in the schoolyard after you to hurt you even worse for hurting them and embarassing them. (I am being literal about schoolyard bullies here as well as figuratuive.)
In REAL life, not the movies, just because you beat up a bully does not mean they will leave you alone. Sometimes it makes them hate you even more.
Mark, the problem with society is ALSO that the shy and sometimes undecisive guy, who may not stand up and shout “I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore” can make MORE of a difference by trying to THINK about the nature of the problem and find a solution that benefits BOTH parties and not just the team you are on. With some form of common ground, violence is much less likely.
We may not be able to change our enemies, but we do not have to lower ourselves to their level to beat them. We CAN beat them with kindness, because some may learn from our example.
Even if we kill every last living terrorist, more will come to take their place (they are training them from childhood) unless we find ANOTHER way. So do you want a war between peoples to go ont until the end of time, or do you want to solve it NOW with a “kinder, gentler” approach that transcends the brute violence that we might mimic from the enemy?
Mark, being strong is NOT always about beating someone into submission. Sometimes being strong is about the shy guy setting a better example for others, even if he is not as “confident” as others, through using his BRAIN instead of his brawn to solve problems….
4. extramedium | July 4th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
So go ahead and recover your manliness - who is going to stop you? Who will even notice, or care?
Perhaps the first step in recovering your manliness should be to stop moaning about being the poor victim of some imagined liberal oppressors. Jeesh!
5. CanadianObserver | July 4th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
3. Robert | July 4th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
——————————–
Bravo! If only more Americans held such sensible ideals.
Unfortunately, Robert, the Wild West (good guys vs bad guys/let’s get them before they get us) mentality is just too strongly ingrained and looking for peaceful solutions is considered sissy and definitely ‘un-American’.
6. Joshua Speed | July 4th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Deleted - off topic, which is an accomplisment on a general sort of entry open to a wide ranging discussion.
7. Jeremiah | July 4th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
We have used our brains, Robert, by not trusting the enemy.
That’s the most important lesson anyone can ever learn in life, is never, EVER trust your enemy…Never!
Always stay close to your enemy, and listen to what he has to say before you take action…and when he makes the right signal…..Light ‘im up!
Problem solved.
8. Mark Noonan | July 5th, 2008 at 2:04 am
Magnum,
Errrm…it should be something other than my opinion?
9. Mark Noonan | July 5th, 2008 at 2:11 am
Robert,
I’d ask you to re-read what I wrote in the hope that you’d actually comprehend the subject being discussed…but I guess that boat’s already sailed.
It is, however, usefully illustrative that you don’t even appear to know what “manly” means. You seem to have some sort of concept that the be manly means to be violent…but, Robert, there are many sides to being a man…certainly Bayard was manly in the more easily understood sense, but so was St Thomas Aquinas. To be manly about the concerns of the world is to be unbending against those who counsel weakness or compromise with evil.
When Jefferson wrote the line in the Declaration about the colonists resisting George III “with manly firmness”, he wasn’t referring to the war which had commenced the previous year - he was referring to the many years the colonists had stoutly asserted their ancient rights against the usurpations of the Crown. George III was attempting to reduce the colonies - to make them not bodies of freemen owing allegiance to the Crown, but bodies of bondsmen dictated to by the Crown. Had our ancestors been unmanly back then, they might have detected just a nuanced view of the Royal perogative and perhaps a refinement of the relationship between mother country and colony. Our ancestors, fortunately, weren’t having any of that and when despotism was attempted, it was called despotism.
10. Robert | July 5th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Sorry, Mark - I did not necessarily misconstrue the post. It is just hard to see your point in the right context here as you have already illustrated in past posts (the one where you state that women should not be cops and whine about some imagined Liberal conspiracy to neuter America) that you believe that brute force will overcome evil. (You do not give women credit with being able to think their way out of a situation by being “steadfast”, just that they should be able to be physically more powerful than their enemy.
Given that I already know this mindset about you, I know that you view those who wish to compromise situations and negotiate to find a mutually beneficial agreement as “weak” and “un-American.”
This also shows through all of you posts and comments - that you refuse to budge from your position (which is a good thing) but that you take it to the extreme (which might be stupid, if I dare say so)
Being unbending of your values is a good things, but to absolutely refuse to learn from others and view a situation from a different perspective is is not unbending - it is arrogant and quite stupid.
We must ALWAYS be willing to question our values and question ourselves. If we do this regularly and our values hold up, then we are holding tight and being unbending to our integrity. However, we must also be willing to accept that as times change and people’s worldviews change, we must incorporate many different ideas into our “unbending” worldview.
We must ADAPT our thinking to understand new and overcome new challenges.
Nature adapts all of the time. Perhaps God, in whatever form he might actually exist, is truly smart (as a friend says).Nature does not expect every creature to be “unbending” forever. Unless a species is allowed to evolve (ahhh - evolve, what a dirty word that must be to you) it will become extinct. Being absolutely “unbending” and refusing to even entertain the notion of change and that you or your thinking is not the center of the Unverse is a sure way to put you on the slippery slope ( I HATE that cliched blog term) to extinction.
The point here is that being unbending is good, but being so steadfast that you refuse to honor someone else’s point of view or to change yours in light of different situations or facts that disprove you is not just arrogant, it is sheer stupidity.
So, being “manly” is also about being SMART, not just about brute strength or brute “unbendingness.” Being “manly” is about understanding someone else, putting yourself in their shoes, and trying to find a way to adapt to a situation to find some common ground for both of you. It is NOT about trying to beat someone into submission, whether it be through brute strength or brute ideas. Understanding and (oh, no, the dreaded word - tolerance) is more “manly” than being arrogant. You do not have to lose your own ideals to compromise with someone else. You do not have to lose your own ideals to understand someone else, even if you do not agree with them.
Unfortunately, it seems as if you and some Conservatives like you are more concerned in getting the world to believe everything you believe instead of trying to understand someone else. In order to get along in this world, we cannot always see things in black and white. There are shades of grey that we must recognize, or else we will give in to arrogance, pride, and eventually extinction (since we will probably all destroy each other in a blazing nuclear holocaust because we don’t believe in the same religion or economic system)
So, unbending DOES NOT always equal unchanging!
11. Mark Noonan | July 5th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Robert,
I really don’t know what to say - you clearly haven’t paid the slightest attention. And not just to this post, but to everything you’ve read of me in the past. You aren’t even remotely addressing what I’m talking about.
12. FmrMarine | July 5th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
robt
>>>Sometimes standing up to others requires a more quiet approach. Sometimes in real life, when you beat up the bully, they then come against you twice as hard, waiting in the schoolyard after you to hurt you even worse for hurting them and embarassing them. (I am being literal about schoolyard bullies here as well as figuratuive.)>>>
What a COWARDLY crock of liberal CRAP!
13. Robert | July 5th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
FmrMarine,
It sounds like you WERE the schoolyard bully - beating up on the little nerdy kids and stealing their lunch money.
What a wonderful person you must be….
I can’t stand arrogant people, yet I would try to understand your point, that is if you had one other than insulting people.
Maybe you should try a little compassion yourself, or do you like kicking kittens?
Mark, BTW I am adressing in this post that person you portray here on this blog. Reread YOUR comments to me and see how arrogant and condescending you sound. As well as lokking at other jerks like FmrMarine, who just insult instead of trying to engage in an intellectual discussion.
Mark, case in point -
“I’d ask you to re-read what I wrote in the hope that you’d actually comprehend the subject being discussed…but I guess that boat’s already sailed.”
Mark, how can anyone NOT read that as condescending and arrogant?
If you don’t like that people might misconstrue you as arrogant, then stop portraying yourself that way through your writing…
14. FmrMarine | July 5th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
robert;
>>>As well as lokking at other jerks like FmrMarine, who just insult instead of trying to engage in an intellectual discussion.>>>
That is the point you and other TROLLS post here to disrupt a conservative post.
NOBODY cares a twit what the looney left thinks.
My sarcasm to YOU trolls is a rebuttal to the nonsense you spread here….so it is met with nonsense.
There is no “intellectual discussion” with marxists, anti Christian bigots, and homosexual promoters.
end of story.
15. Robert | July 5th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
FmrMarine,
Yep - definitely the schoolyard bully.
Arrogant and mean and generally unintelligent yourself. An intelligent and honorable man would treat others with kindness and actually listen to another’s point of view.
You say you are a former Marine, I assume. Well, REAL Marines have honor and conviction and treat others with grace and respect. They serve their country with honor and distinction and stand tall in their intent to provide an example to others of what a true American should be.
I may not have been in the Armed Forces, but I was a Boy Scout, almost an Eagle Scout. Sir, the Scouts had a code of honor and stood as an example to others, treating others as you would like to be treated and putting others before yourself.
Quite unlike yourself, FmrMarine.
FmrMarine, this country was founded on honor, truth and compassion, not insults to others.
Your have none of these qualities. You, sir, are an insult to the Marines and an insult to America. Period.
16. What? | July 6th, 2008 at 2:36 am
Mark writes,
“What is wanted, by the advocates, is a smaller number of births. But they call it birth control, and even we who are opposed to the basic concept call it birth control”
No. You are wrong.
People who use birth control and advocate for its use don’t want to lower the overall number of births in the country. They don’t want to be pregnant. That there are less births in the U.S. is simply a by product of their choice to not have children. It really is that simple, Mark.
Let me put it in simpler terms. I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice because I believe a woman should have the option to have an abortion. I, nor the pro-choice movement as a whole, want to force women to have abortions.
Let me make a suggestion. Quit trying to create strawmen arguments when it comes to the abortion argument, Mark. Everyone sees what you are doing. It doesn’t work to persuade those who are on the fence. Address the argument presented, not the one you wish was being made.
You should do this not only out of intellectual honesty but because the pro-life’s argument isn’t that bad when argued well.
As for the rest of this post, it seems like something you wrote in a moment of inspiration. There are distinctions in the law of homicide because society has decided certain homicides deserve greater punishment than others. A person who does something stupid and kills someone in the process (2nd degree murder) is not as immoral in society’s eyes as Scott Petersen (1st Degree Murder) Rape is a specific kind of sexual assualt. The term sexual assault encompasses other acts beyond penatrative sex.
Also, I have one last question. Everytime I see a Vietnam Vet acting crazy in the street should I say he is experiencing the “awesome mental and spiritual weight of battle?”
17. Mark Noonan | July 6th, 2008 at 3:00 am
What,
Actually, I’m quite right about that - but that is besides the point. I’m not arguing about the merits of birth control.
And, you’re right, the prolife argument is very strong - in fact, it is unanswerable. And from time to time I post an entry on that subject. This isn’t one of them.
18. snake eyes | July 6th, 2008 at 10:19 am
WITH MANLY FIRMNESS I REJECT THOSE WHO SAY I OWE AFRICAN AMERICANS FOR SLAVERY.
After Katrina the Vietnamese descended minority in Louisiana dug out, cleaned up and went back to work. While Jesse and others complained about response, racism and other things the Vietnamese were quiet and kept on working to fix things on their own and economically they are all the better for it.
Someone once said that if a man feels owed or entitled to compensation he will act like it and do nothing to help himself. What a perfect example after Katrina. Until the rest of America ceases to placate the African American community and let them know they have to focus on strong families, education and self reliance, you will only enable my brothers and sisters to sit and wait for their hand outs.
Please stop apologizing for or to us and give us the freedom to wake up and forget about the fairy tale 40 acres and a mule! Until you do we will ask less of ourselves and for more from you.
19. FmrMarine | July 6th, 2008 at 10:22 am
bobby boy
>>>Well, REAL Marines have honor and conviction and treat others with grace and respect. >>>
Actually….we KILL people and blow things up!
You know NOTHING about me, a schoolyard bully? not even close.
You thhough were obviously the school yard little weasel afraid of his own shadow.!
20. FmrMarine | July 6th, 2008 at 10:30 am
bobby boy
>>>>I may not have been in the Armed Forces, but I was a Boy Scout, almost an Eagle Scout. >>>
AHHHH HA HA HA ROTFLMAO
I was ALMOST an astronaut what a moron!
camon robt you are probably a single 35-40 yo male and want to be a bot scout leader right.
I think you belong more to the nambla group though…BOY SCOUT HA HA HA.
21. FmrMarine | July 6th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Snake eyes
You are 100% correct.
Though as a white man I am not allowed to say such things with out being labeled a racist.
We need more MEN like YOU speaking out on this issue.
Bill Cosby was roundly chastised for his right on the money comments.
This is a matter of our countries survival not just feeling good policies.
The blacks have to learn they were lied to by the democRATS and leave that party.
When we see the likes of Colon Powell, Condy, Clarence, Michael J., Tiger, it proves the black community can and will succeed if they get off the democrat led plantation.
22. FmrMarine | July 6th, 2008 at 11:27 am
snake eyes
Here is a good read…
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/why_shakir_cant_read.html
23. Fredrick Schwartz | July 6th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
17. Mark Noonan | July 6th, 2008 at 3:00 am
It is both answerable and compelling but as long as the religious right uses it as a truncheon it will appear to take the right of procreative choice away from women who have struggled hard for it. There is no way to put women “back in their place” by having them give birth every time they conceive. I guess that’s two genies out of the bottle and you’re working on a hat trick.
24. What? | July 7th, 2008 at 3:44 am
Mark writes,
“Actually, I’m quite right about that - but that is besides the point. I’m not arguing about the merits of birth control.”
Pretty sad. You can’t even argue your own point. A A man who can’t defend his positions should not voice them.
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