McCain/Lieberman, ‘08?
August 16th, 2008 at 01:55am Mark Noonan
THere is much speculation - and much conservative heartache - over this concept. As for me, I’ll quote that really clever guy, myself, from January 2, 2006:
The United States has many problems facing it over the next ten yeas. In spite of assertions to the contrary in some quarters, we must reform Social Security and Medicare before they go bankrupt, or bankrupt the nation. We must get a handle on our energy shortages - both expansion of current sources and development of replacements demand our attention. We have to figure out what sort of immigration policy we are going to have. These are just some of the bigger issues we face - there are, of course, scores of lesser issues which also must be given their due time - but the most important issue facing the United States over the next ten years is the War on Terrorism. Literally millions of lives are at stake, as well as having the liberty of the world hanging in the balance. The War on Terrorism is a war we must win, and it is a war which will take at least another 5 to 10 years to win.
In five years, it will be January 2nd, 2011…President Bush will have been out of office for nearly two years. We know that President Bush will keep fighting this war no matter what right up to the end…but the end for President Bush comes on January 20th, 2009. Who shall take over on that day? Will that person be as determined upon fighting until victory? God help us all if he is not…
…McCain is just about my least favorite Republican and while Joe Lieberman is my favorite Democrat, he is quite the liberal, and this conservative doesn’t agree with either man all that much. But one thing we can know with fair certainty is that both men have the guts and determination to see this war through to victory. A man who spent time in the Hanoi Hilton isn’t going to quit when the going gets tough, and Joe Lieberman has stood up to his Party’s leftwing base when most center/liberal Democrats have cravenly given into it. So, I propose a ticket with John McCain and Joe Lieberman.
It is my view that a McCain/Lieberman ticket is not only just about unbeatable, but is a ticket which any smart politician will recognize as unbeatable. Only a full-blown fanatic would think of running against them - and that, in the end, is precisely what we want.
You see, it isn’t good enough in 2008 that a pro-victory candidate wins: he must win convincingly. War is called politics by another means, and there is massive truth in that. The politics of this war are that we must, as far as possible, show a united face to our armed enemies - this is the only way we’ll ever convince them of the hopelessness of their cause. Right now, outside observers could easily believe that there is a massive anti-war movement in the United States which, any day now, will force America to withdraw from the war and hand our enemies a victory. Truth is, the anti-war movement isn’t that large, and no amount of old hippies out there demonstrating are likely to change President Bush’s mind…but this does make fighting the war harder, and it’d be a lot easier if the President and Vice President on January 20th, 2009 can claim a mandate from a large majority of Americans.
While a McCain/Lieberman ticket might upset some of my fellow conservatives, I don’t think the political bleeding on the right will be even close to the number of centrist Democrats who will flock to a McCain/Lieberman ticket…
…Victory in war and the health of our political system may end up requiring a McCain/Lieberman ticket - and if we secure a crushing victory for pro-victory liberals, centrists and conservatives, then we will have entirely marginalized the left. Eventually, of course, a political contraption which includes Joe Lieberman and Jon Kyl will fly apart due to internal contradictions - but we only need such a thing to work for 6 years or so. This would allow us time to win the war - or do so much that even a defeatist couldn’t lose the war - as well as purging the left from our political discourse. Eventually the more liberal part of the new coalition splits off to form a replacement party for the Democrats, while the more conservative elements of the GOP remain in charge of the Party.
I don’t like the idea of President McCain all that much - he is too easily swayed by elite opinion makers (the guy is a major camera-hog and it gets him into trouble with the right time and again), while Joe Lieberman adheres to too many economic liberal positions. But this isn’t about winning one for the Party or even winning one for conservatism - this is about ensuring that the United States government has the leadership necessary to secure total victory. For the sake of the nation, all men of good will can certainly swallow a bit of gall and get on with the important things - we can always start arguing about levels of taxation at a later date; I’m a member of an organization which stands for God and Country - and that is motto I hope to genuinely live up to. Much as I like clear victories for my particular side, the fate of my nation is far more important.
Do keep in mind that this is the official position of no one but myself - I owe the concept to no one, and I am unaware of anyone other than my father who agrees with the idea. Nothing which has happened in the 2 years, 7 months since I wrote that has caused me to change my opinion about the worth of a McCain/Lieberman ticket.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Republicans
37 Comments
1. John | August 16th, 2008 at 2:31 am
The minute this happens, the McCain/Lieberman bumper sticker goes on all my vehicles. For now, I’m on the sidelines and the only things that will change me are this and the thought of a Obama/Kerry ticket. I can only hope that Obama is as dim witted as I think he is and he picks Kerry.
2. Mark Noonan | August 16th, 2008 at 2:41 am
John,
Now is the time for all patriots to rally to the aid of their country - I doubt, in the end, that McCain would make this selection and if he does there will be an explosion of anger on the part of the right…but my country requires victory, and I’m willing to surrender on any issue - other than the most basic issues of the Culture of Life - in order to secure victory for the United States.
3. What? | August 16th, 2008 at 3:00 am
Noonan writes:
“It is my view that a McCain/Lieberman ticket is not only just about unbeatable, but is a ticket which any smart politician will recognize as unbeatable. Only a full-blown fanatic would think of running against them - and that, in the end, is precisely what we want.”
So is it unbeatable because both men support a unpopular war or because Lieberman would alienate the religious right? Help me out here.
Aren’t you sort of half surrendering on the “Culture of Life” thing?
Also, shouldn’t we listen to the Iraqis and start drawing down. It is their country after all, isn’t it?
But wait . . .
I thought we achieved victory in Iraq. If so, a Lieberman/McCain ticket is unnecessary. Shouldn’t we be packing up and going home?
4. Dennis | August 16th, 2008 at 3:49 am
I guarantee that an Obama/Hagel ticket would beat it.
It’s only a pipe dream, I know - but such a ticket would prove Obama’s bipartisan creds and smash the McCain campaign to flinders. All the same, I’ve got my cell phone primed to hear the news by text as soon as Obama announces. Unlikely as I think it is, I would love to see him choose Hagel. I think it would do more to unite the nation than nearly anything else I can think of.
Chuck Hagel is a moderate Republican, a pro-life veteran who also is an opponent of this unnecessary war (for once, someone who actually demonstrates some consistency in his pro-life convictions) and a seasoned, very serious but likeable guy. And he has indicated his willingness to consider a number two slot with Obama.
5. Eric T | August 16th, 2008 at 7:37 am
The democrats have alot of good issues to run on.
The democrats can win, running on their issues.
I can think of many reasons to side with democrats, but I don’t focus on them because I’m on the GOP team.
The VP pick is critical, because of McCain’s age, but not only that, It will set the stage for the next administration. So Joe Lieberman, a democrat, will be the head of the GOP Party.
As part of the GOP team, If you were a supporter of Ron Paul, Hunter, Huckabee, Romney, Rudy, Thompson,Brownback, Tancredo. You could easily throw your support behind another GOP candidate because, the issues you cared about, you would find, that pretty much everyone on the team agreed on to some extent, or may have even altered a previous stance to reassure the regular GOP votes they were going try and work as a team, with the same goals.
If you throw out the team and grab a VP from the opposing team, soon we will hear, pro-life is no longer an important issue, or 2nd Amendment voters are no longer important, or traditional family values voters just don’t have a place in the GOP anymore. For that matter why even have two parties, if there is no difference.
6. Stretchrun | August 16th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Except for his idiotic support for the war, which will keep any true blue Democrat from supporting him, not much here that I dislike; he is a NE liberal at heart. For example he and Patrick Leahy blasted Scalia for going on vacation with Cheney immediately preceding the Supreme Court hearing a case involving Cheney.
He did not help Gore. His debates put you to sleep.
7. Eric T | August 16th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Stretchrun-
You are a great example of a democrat that will still vote for democrats.
8. majoriot | August 16th, 2008 at 8:45 am
I think it would be a clever move. Seriously.
And it will work if the Republicans convince people they need a tankhugger ticket.
9. Stretchrun | August 16th, 2008 at 8:53 am
You are a great example of a democrat that will still vote for democrats.7. Eric T | August 16th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Why not? Are you saying Republicans are no longer voting for Republicans. There are millions of Democrats that vote for Democrats. Not sure as to what is your point. I prefer socially liberal and fiscally conservative with a touch of globalism; ie Bill Clinton types. Which brought us the best of times in the 1990s.
10. neocon | August 16th, 2008 at 9:31 am
While I admire Lieberman, McCain doesn’t need any help with foreign policy, he could though use some help with the economy, and a legitimate successor on the ticket, and that is why Romney needs to be the VP. Lieberman would make a great Def Sec.
Stretch,
The best of times in the 90’s???
While AQ was growing in ferocity and blowing up embassies, the USS Cole, Khobar Towers, etc. without any consequence, and while Global Crossing, Enron, etc. were financially raping the American public, Clinton was busy doing interns.
And just because this was all going on under the radar, you thought it was the best of times.
Says a lot about your ignorance and allegiance.
11. js | August 16th, 2008 at 9:40 am
90s
the decade that america’s factories moved oversea’s….not such a great legacy….taxed to death by democrat’s
12. Eric T | August 16th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Stretchrun-
My point is a McCain/Lieberman ticket is not going to get you to leave the democrats and vote GOP.
or will it???
13. Upstart | August 16th, 2008 at 9:53 am
12. Eric T | August 16th, 2008 at 9:40 am
No, he could put Hillary on the ticket and I would not vote for him. At least two Surpeme Court justices could be at stake. Although McCain would never pick a Scalia he has shown a tendency to forgo his values in order to placate the far right.
14. neocon | August 16th, 2008 at 9:58 am
He forgos his values to placate the far right??
Is that why the far right may stay home and not vote for him? That may be the most brain dead statement I have ever read on this blog.
But at least Obama doesn’t placate the far left, right? Are your tires inflated?
LMAO
15. Leo Pusateri | August 16th, 2008 at 11:04 am
One big problem with the Lieberman part: He is pro-abortion.
A pro-abortion stance leaves a wedge into which more pro-aborts can shimmy through.
Are you willing to sacrifice one war in the name of winning another?
16. Jeremiah | August 16th, 2008 at 11:50 am
At least two Surpeme Court justices could be at stake.</i
Upstart,
And that is precisely what is at stake … Obama would appoint those judges who are radically opposed to life. He is in favor of post-birth abortion. Which, to him, that means any number of persons who do not fit his agenda will be murdered. His close connections to Planned Parenthood are proof that he holds eugenics strongly as a philosophy. These judges have no regard for life, and do not know or care for that matter what it means to love. And, that in essence, is the platform of the Democrat party, you and they care nothing for other individuals as persons, but for your own interests…as Judge Bork stated, this is radical personal autonomy, which is anarchy, and you tout this philosophy in school, teaching children to hate other people and love themselves…in the end, no one cares for the tiniest, defenseless, helpless people and they are murdered for personal gain and other deemed “unfit” for society such as the elderly and mentally/physically handicapped. Even those who oppose this ideology of liberalism are deemed “bigots”. How sad that liberals have taken this careless attitude.
I would like to see McCain pick Mike Huckabee as his VP, but my doubts on that are sadly becoming more realistic with each passing day…the careless attitude of liberalism has become so engrained through the passing generations that it is unlikely that folks would approve and as Mr. McCain realizes this, he will go at all costs to win.
It is the job of the President to uphold what is right, not what everybody wants at the spare of the moment, seeing that degenerate lifestyles have become popular among Americans of many stripes, due to the liberal education, it seems as if the ‘Will of the people’ will be more inclined to support those candidates who agree with their blind and mis-guided ideologies, thus, the democratic process will be used as a force further degenerate.
The only hope left for this country is in who Mr. McCain will appoint as his Supreme Court justices, who will defy the ACLU’s very dangerous agenda. This signifies how important this election is, probably one if not the most important in America’s history, the way I see it.
We can either choose to stand for strength or for weakness.
Please vote for John McCain for President of the United States! Our lives, fortunes, and sacred honor depend upon it!
Thank You!
17. Eric T | August 16th, 2008 at 11:52 am
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080816/ap_on_el_se/senate_campaign;_ylt=AsMPzq00YtIt82zR8GaE5AEGw_IE
If you look at this link, it appears like there will be no shortage of democrats anytime soon. No reason to put on as VP.
18. cam | August 16th, 2008 at 11:53 am
neocon,
In February 2000 McCain called George W. Bush a “Pat Robertson Republican who will lose to Al Gore.”
followed up by, “Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance. Whether they be Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton on the left or Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell on the right.”
He compared Robertson to “union bosses who have subordinated the interests of working families to their own ambitions,” and he accused both men of attempting to distort his position on abortion and “smear the reputations of my supporters.”
Then in 2006 McCain spoke at the commencement of Liberty University which was run by Jerry Falwell, the same Jerry Falwell McCain had accused of being an evil intollerant force in the 2000 campaign.
It sure looks like he is forgoing his values to placate the right.
19. cam | August 16th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Boy it sure is a nice sunny day. I’m off to the beach in my McSame flip flops.
Flip, flop, flip flop, flip flop………………..
20. neil | August 16th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
I agree with Jeremiah! We must not get on a slippery slope going away from protecting LIFE in its most frailest form. The Pro-Life issue should be a top consideration. Mark 8:36 What profit will a person have if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?
Are we going to choose Life or Death?
21. cam | August 16th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Neil,
Glad to see you want to protect life. Hope you will vote for Obama who was against an unnecessary war that killed houndreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis.
22. neil | August 16th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Cam,
The most innocent of life is the unborn. War does cause some unnecessary death. Most of the innocent Iraqis were killed by their own extremist. The extremist are not interested in peace just their own agenda of radical islam. The majority of Iraqis want peace and are not radicals. It is the radicals that want us to leave in a hurry so they can rule.
thanks Neil
23. Eric T | August 16th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Jeremiah-
I like McCain, I’ll be there voting for him, the issue is, when his term is up, then what.
Lieberman???
24. Dennis | August 16th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkfM7z0-Vdg
If McCain is elected Lieberman will become the defacto president, as McCain simply does not have command of facts and his memory is fading.
The more urgent question is whether or not McCain’s choleric temperament would lead the US into more disastrous wars before his dementia renders him incompetent enough for Congress to relieve him of his powers. Judging from the free pass Bush/Cheney got, I would guess no Congress will ever have the moral courage to do that.
25. Dennis | August 16th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Should have said above, “if McCain/Lieberman are elected”
26. Doug | August 16th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Eric,
At this point in time I could live with Lieberman as a VP pick, that, along with Ridge, or a qualified female, are probably the limited few that could actually help the ticket from a VP spot. However, I would have to guess that in four years, the Lieberman pick would have also served to coalesce the three branches of conservatives under one candidate (I’m guessing by then it would be Jeb Bush or someone similar) and the conservative base would once again take the nomination.
27. Eric T | August 16th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Doug-
Jeb Bush would be a much better selection, the Bush family knows how to run the country. They have been doing it for years. I remember voting against Lieberman/Gore. Now I’m suppose to be excited about voting for him. Makes no sense to me.
28. Eric T | August 16th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
“or a qualified female, are probably the limited few that could actually help the ticket from a VP spot.”
Maybe your right about this, Condi is qualified, you’ll hear them float the idea around once and a while. She is Republican to the core, and would be a much better choice than putting a democrat on the ticket.
29. Mark Noonan | August 16th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Eric,
I wouldn’t put it that you’re supposed to get excited about the ticket, but rather to understand that its time we presented a united front in the War on Terrorism and clearly marginalise the anti-war left and let the world know they are a marginal, fanatic section of the American population which has absolutely zero say in the formulation of American defense and foreign policy.
As for Lieberman’s pro-choice stance - its very moderate and I’ll bet subject to very heavy modification depending on the actual circumstances. After all is said and done, he is an Orthodox Jew, ya know?
30. Mark Noonan | August 16th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
cam,
Hundreds of thousands? Even the well-overblown numbers at Iraq Body Count don’t total up to 100,000…you really gotta leave off the Hate-Bush hyperbole and get down to facts.
31. Jeremiah | August 16th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Eric,
I have my if’s about McCain … if you know what I mean. Overall, I like his stance on Life, but not too sure about his stance on marriage. I also like his platform on criminal justice, which is something that we need, which would help to free up some of the space in our prisons. I like his stance on permanent tax breaks.
We need an overhaul of government, and McCain is the man for the job. While he does have his if’s, he is the only man that will save us from a disasterous policy of Barack Obama that would send us under the sod.
After McCain? Mike Huckabee is who I would recommend and would like to see get it, or even Sam Brownback … but that is like trying to talk to somebody while a train horn is going full blast next to you. The Liberals will scream bloody murder if they don’t get their sin pleasure.
32. Jeremiah | August 16th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
I guess will get to find out tonight … Isn’t McCain and Obama having a debate tonight?
The Saddleback Showdown? I think they’re going to talk about faith aren’t they?
33. Danish Artist | August 16th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
“Boy it sure is a nice sunny day. I’m off to the beach in my McSame flip flops.
Flip, flop, flip flop, flip flop………………..”
McSame flip flops are preferred more than Obama flip flops. McSame flip flops will fit many Americans with small feet, while Obama flip flops are not practical - they are the size of snow shoes.
Enough with McSame flip flops….that tired old talking point is old news since Obama has flipped… uh, “REFINED” his position, 180 degrees, on every single stance.
Go sell crazy somewhere else.
34. CanadianObserver | August 16th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Jeb Bush would be a much better selection, the Bush family knows how to run the country.
27. Eric T | August 16th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
————————————
Are you a comedian, Eric T?
35. Eric T | August 16th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
This is becoming very confusing, are we against the left, accepting the left? accepting some left issues? if so which ones, they got a few I like.
But some that are just not acceptable at all.
A democrat VP ??
Its going to be hard to write on the blog, trying to promote the GOP, if we are getting a democrat VP.
I don’t want to litter the blog with doubt or negative material. So I’ll come back when it makes sense, if it ever does.
All you bloggers, pitchforkers, libs, I enjoyed every debate and conversation we have ever had. God Bless You All!!!
36. Jeremiah | August 16th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
I just listened to McCain as Rick Warren finished up the questions.
McCain did a super good job, and is sincere.
We really need to pray that he will be our next President! I hope he picks Huckabee for VP, too.
37. New Conservative | August 17th, 2008 at 12:54 am
If McCain picks Lieberman 20% or more of the people at the convention will walk out. It would be a disaster not seen since the 68 Democratic convention. There are plenty of good conservatives to choose from. Palin, Pawlenty, Jindal, Cantor, etc. No reason to choose Lieberman. I’m sure he loses by a landslide if he picks Lieberman because Democrats are still voting Democrat.
http://thenewconservatives.blogspot.com/