McCain and Obama at Saddleback
August 17th, 2008 at 01:29am Mark Noonan
I missed all of Obama and part of McCain, but the part I saw of McCain was very good - clear, humorous at times, willing to stake out strong positions. While I don’t want to comment too much until I have a chance to read the transcripts, I thought this news report interesting in the contrasts between the two men:
DALLAS - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama side-stepped a pointed query about abortion on Saturday by “mega-pastor” Rick Warren during a televised forum.
Asked at what point a baby gets “human rights,” Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: “… whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”
He went on to reiterate his view that it was important to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.
Republican presidential candidate John McCain, who followed Obama onto the stage of the nationally televised event, was more blunt and more emphatic.
He said a baby’s human rights began “at the moment of conception … I have a 25-year pro-life record.”
Sorry, but that was a bit gutless on the part of Obama - he either believes an unborn child has no rights (and thus that elective abortion is ok), or he believes that the unborn child has rights (in which case he would have to switch to the pro-life side, and thus not be nominated in Denver). Obama’s dodge on the issue is a disgusting bit of political gamesmanship - he doesn’t want Joe Average to understand the fanatic pro-abortion positions he’s staked out but he also doesn’t want to give even a hint of pro-life opinion for fear of angering that tiny, but noisy and well-funded, minority in the Democratic party who view abortion as some sort of sick sacrament in the Church of Liberalism.
McCain, on the other hand, went right at it and told everyone where he stands - you might disagree with McCain (and he’d be the first person to say thats ok with him), but you can never oppose McCain because you are unsure of what he believes. In my view, always take the man who has the courage to stake out a position - even a wrong position is better than refusal to take a position.
UPDATE: Mark Hemmingway over at NRO’s The Corner chimes in:
I don’t want to get to overheated about what occurred tonight, but I do think McCain had a clear and decisive victory over Obama. It all comes down to something that Phil Bredesen, the Democratic governor of Tennessee recently said about Obama: “Instead of giving big speeches at big stadiums, he needs to give straight-up 10-word answers to people at Wal-Mart about how he would improve their lives.”
By that standard, McCain did extremely well and Obama did very poorly. McCain’s answers were direct, confident and, most importantly, serious. When asked about what leaders he would consult as president, he first suggested Gen. Petraeus, architect of the surge, who he correctly praised as one of America’s all-time great military leaders. By way of contrast, Obama suggested he would seek out the advice of
a typical white person, er, his grandmother and his wife Michelle, who’s still trying to decide whether she’s proud of her country.When asked “At what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?,” McCain answered “At the moment of conception.” Obama’s answer here was flaming-dirigible bad:
Whether you are looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity is, you know, above my pay grade.
That spectacularly inept metaphor is going to haunt Obama throughout the rest of the campaign. News flash: There’s not a job on the planet above the pay grade of the President of the United States.
As I said, I didn’t see any of Obama - anyone here see Obama and have a comment on his performance?
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Democrats, Life Issues, Republicans
50 Comments
1. Jeremiah | August 17th, 2008 at 2:07 am
I saw McCain as clear and concise, he did an excellent job….and you could tell he was truly sincere, everything he said came from the heart.
And given that he is clear and concise on the issues, he is right on the money at that. I saw evrerthing that I wanted in a President in Mr. McCain on Saturday evening. He told the truth!
As for Obama? It goes sort of like this … “Uuuuh, mmmmmm, weeellll, maybe, eeerrrr, uuummm” Staring at the table, instead of the moderator, he slammed Scalia, and Clarence Thomas, such fine upstanding judges, of course I knew he would, because he’s a radically against life. And he said America’s problem was in sexism…you know what meant there, he’s in favor of the homosexuals, and he mentioned racism, and you know what he meant there, he wants black power. And raise taxes, and kill the unborn. on and on. Dangerous!!!!!
2. Mark Noonan | August 17th, 2008 at 2:27 am
Jeremiah,
Mark Hemmingway over at NRO seems to feel about the same…I was watching McCain with the Mrs - who will vote for McCain but has been convinced that he’s going to lose - and even she was a bit impressed by his perfomance. From the parts I saw, McCain was hitting it out of the park, and if Obama was as bad as you and Hemmingway think, then we just can’t wait for the debates…
3. Ray Ban | August 17th, 2008 at 5:50 am
The Obama campaign knew what they were getting into by entering into that forum. They were targeting the Moderate Christians and Independents, McCain simply pandered to his “base” and gained NO votes for his performance. He tethered himself firmly to Bush and his policies and you can be sure, Obama will be more than happy to use McCain’s answers from tonight in future ads to make sure nobody misses it.
Remember McCain pronouncing “America” as “Amuurica”? How many times do you figure we’ll be hearing that in an ad soon? How about his abortion answers? How many women will run screaming away from McCain now? Any moderate’s watching his performance tonight are appalled by his obvious love of war and all that has to do with it. Obama gained votes tonight from groups other than the Evangelicals it was slanted towards.
4. Ray Ban | August 17th, 2008 at 5:53 am
McCain is so out of touch, he thinks the Middle-Class is anybody making less than 5m a year.
question: Give me a number, give me a specific number where
do you move from middle class to rich? Is it 100
thousand, is it 50 thousand, 2 hundred? How does anybody
know if we don’t know what the standards are?
John Mccain’s answer: So — so I think if you’re just talking about income, how about 5 million.”
This is something that needs to be put in an ad.
5. Danish Artist | August 17th, 2008 at 6:08 am
Obama opposed legislation in Illinois that would declare babies, who survived an induced labor abortion, “a viable human life”.
On, the Born Alive Act, he voted “PRESENT” on one vote (talk about gutless!). Then he voted NO. Then he LIED as to why he voted NO.
But don’t take my word for it, let his record speak for itself. We deal in FACTS and not liberal fantasy concerning their messiah. Pay attention, your “messiah’s” radical record is making the light of day and Obama campaign based on image is slowly imploding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPZCXcTwZPY
Ray ban, your posts are a collection gutless and unfocused talking points, come back when you have something intelligent to say.
McCain is out of touch? Obama believes that bitter Americans are clinging to their bibles and guns. Instead of clinging to what or to who? HIM?
And also, we can inflate our tires and tune up our cars to be independent of oil drilling.
Did you realize you wanted to vote for Obama when light shown down through the clouds and enveloped you, then all of a sudden a voice speaks to you and everything was made clear?
Wow, where did I hear that before. Did he discuss this with that pastor, last night? I wonder.
6. Danish Artist | August 17th, 2008 at 6:11 am
Also, Ray ban I do know that Obama thinks you are rich if you make over 80,000 if you are single and 150,000 if you are married.
Another example of Obama out of touch.
7. Jeremiah | August 17th, 2008 at 8:16 am
I don’t know, Mark … As I said, I think McCain did a really good job, and in my honest opinion I don’t see how anybody could pass off the vote to Obama. If people cannot see the inside as well as outside threats to our country, then I guess we can say our fate is pretty well sealed.
But oh well, we have democratic process, and I pray the people will use it wisely, and vote for McCain.
2 months and a few days and we’ll be there!!
8. Upstart | August 17th, 2008 at 8:21 am
It would have been interesting if Rev Warren would have asked McCain what he meant when he said a decision involving an abortion for his daughter would be a private family matter. How does this stack up with his staunch anti-abortion stance in front of the pro life crowd and the Republicans meddling in the Terri Schiavo case?
Again the discussion emphasized the point, want less abortions vote for Obama. McCain will simply use it as a wedge issue as his predecessors Reagan, Bush Sr and Bush Jr.
9. McCain and Obama at Saddl&hellip | August 17th, 2008 at 8:30 am
[...] Continue Reading No Related Post [...]
10. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Obama was typical liberal, mealy mouthed and leaving himself plenty of wiggle room with every answer.
His answer to confronting evil was as weak as they come. Claiming that evil will never be eliminated, the main goal in confronting evil would be to make sure that we did not engage in evil when confronting it.
And according to liberals, just about anything the military does when engaged in battle can be construed as evil. So we probably should just do nothing? Honestly, how does anyone determine what this guy will actually do as President. The man has taken every side of every issue.
11. Magnum Serpentine | August 17th, 2008 at 9:22 am
On the question of Evil. When asked about evil, Obama talked about evil on a Christian non-fundamentalist level describing how we need to control it even though evil will always be with us.
McSenile fell back on a neocon talking point. When asked about evil. McSenile promised to capture Bin ladden. That was not what Warren had asked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz5oHvXzSzo
12. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Ray,
Do you think McCain considers the middle class is anyone making less than $5M a year?
Did you watch the entire interview? If so, do you still want to make that claim? Are you going to blow your credibility that fast?
And are you John Ryan?
neocon
13. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 9:24 am
McCain also said that evil, in all of it’s forms, should be confronted and defeated.
Next.
14. Steve-o | August 17th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Anyone count haw many times Barry said,”um, uh…”?
It must have been a thousand times.
Did McCain ever hesitate at all? He knows what he beleives and he isn’t afraid to say what he beleives.
Obama, um, uh, goes more slowly because, um, uh, he has a lot, um, uh… to, uh, hide.
15. George Llylian | August 17th, 2008 at 9:29 am
McCain wants more of this….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/15/AR2008081502985.html
16. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 9:33 am
I want more of that to George. It sounds as though Dossari is the better man for it. So in effect, McCain wants a better life for Islamists. Great to know.
Thanks for linking me to that.
17. Ray Ban | August 17th, 2008 at 9:40 am
The only reason why McCain was not exposed for the senile old man he is, is because he was given fed the questions ahead of the debate. How do I know, because he goofed and gave the correct answer to a question before it was asked.
Proof bellow.
17 Q ALL RIGHT. LET’S TALK ABOUT EDUCATION. AMERICA
18 RANKS 19TH IN HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATIONS, BUT WE’RE FIRST IN
19 INCARCERATION. EVERYBODY SAYS THEY WANT MORE
20 ACCOUNTABILITY IN SCHOOLS?
21 A UH-HUH.
22 Q ABOUT 80 PERCENT OF AMERICA SAYS THEY SUPPORT
23 MERIT PAY FOR THE BEST TEACHERS. NOW, I DON’T WANT TO
24 HEAR YOUR STUMP SPEECH ON EDUCATION?
25 A YES. YES. AND FIND BAD TEACHERS ANOTHER LINE OF
1 WORK.
2 Q YOU KNOW –
3 A CAN I –
4 Q YOU ARE ANSWERING SO QUICKLY.
There it is.
18. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Ray sweetie,
I know how people with conviction can be a confusing concept to you, but your assertion that McCain had the questions in advance only exposes your realization that Obama looked very bad.
Blowing your credibility yet again Mr. Ryan. There it is.
19. Henry Paste | August 17th, 2008 at 10:04 am
As Barack Obama tries to draw hundreds of thousands of new voters to the polls, Republicans are beginning to scrutinize registrants’ eligibility as both sides draw a major battle line over voting rights.
Republicans are moving to examine surges in voter registrations in some states. A Republican lawyers group held a national training session on election law over the weekend that included campaign attorneys for Sen. John McCain and other Republican leaders. One session discussed how party operatives can identify and respond to instances of voter fraud.
Republicans said they are particularly worried about prospects for fraud in Virginia and Pennsylvania, and are beginning to comb thousands of new registrations in those states for ineligible applicants. In some cases the huge numbers threaten to swamp their efforts — and those of state and local governments to verify and process applications.
Read: we’re going to lose Virginia and Pennsylvania unless we invalidate hundreds of thousands of legal votes through bogus voter fraud claims. Both of the Secretaries of State in these commonwealths are Democrats, but of course the county boards of elections have more local control, as we’ve seen. And be prepared for this meme that the stress of all these new voters may break the system.
20. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Read: Democrats do not want any investigation into new voter registrants confirming many peoples opinion that they do in fact engage in voter manipulation and fraud.
Thanks for confirming that Henry. I couldn’t have exposed that without you.
21. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Case in point. Again can’t thank you enough Henry.
Prominent Democrat is charged with voter fraud (Washington)
Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:06:00
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2044836/posts
22. SEW | August 17th, 2008 at 10:47 am
“… is above my pay grade.” Barry O
Kinda like voting “present.” This gutless wonder, silver tongue, uh, un, you know, for POTUPresent. Hey, Hussein, YOUR voting record indicates OK to murder after exiting the birth canal ALIVE.
Physically present. And when is prochoice a family decision? I thought it was the exclusive right of the “mother.” Father, brothers and sisters, grandparents have a vote? No.
23. Nevada Pundit | August 17th, 2008 at 11:06 am
If Obama believes that knowing the exact time a fetus is considered a human is above his pay grade then that has to open the possibility for him that maybe God does think that life starts at the moment of conception, in which case should be protected. His own words say that that possibility may exist.
24. congressive | August 17th, 2008 at 11:09 am
OK, so let’s do some math. Obama says he doesn’t know when life beings. Ok, an undecided waffle, prompting him to advocate contraception to prevent abortions.
McCain says life begins at conception, no doubt about it. He also said he’d let his then-15 year old daughter decide for herself whether to have an abortion or not and keep it all a family secret. So, McCain, by his own terms, would cover for his daughter committing murder.
Obama = undecided waffler
McCain = murderer
25. jayhay | August 17th, 2008 at 11:14 am
All I’ll say (since obviously minds here are already made up), is that I thought is was a terrific forum, and in many ways blew all other debates out of the water. Warren was good (if predictable about evangelical hot-button issues) but I felt he resisted gotcha kinds of questions and confrontations, and allowed us to watch the candidates in a personal way. I felt it allowed people to watch, and if there was ANY openness of mind, see past all the campaign ads and MSM horse-racing to the candidates themselves.
My impression? Obama works in shades of gray, McCain in black & white. Obama thought about his answers and seemed natural and McCain repeated anecdotes (the cross in the sand AGAIN?) and stump speech lines (though he seems like a decent guy). McCain’s most human moment was admitting the dark spot of his divorce.
As usual around here, no one able to muster one good thing to say about your opponent…
26. jayhay | August 17th, 2008 at 11:15 am
And Nonnan doesn’t even watch Obama before he posts… classy…
27. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 11:15 am
congressive,
Thank you for proving beyond a shadow of doubt why people with your logic should never be in power.
And you do realize that you just proclaimed abortion as murder. That’s a big step for you congressive. Nice to see that you are a pro-lifer now.
Either that, or a murderer. Which is it?
btw, I have archived this pro-life post of yours.
have a nice day
neocon
28. dickvee | August 17th, 2008 at 11:19 am
This is one of the better threads for enjoyable slapdown of the libs in quite a while. Watching the liberal spinners get whupped on every front makes my day. McCain wasn’t fed the questions, but he did know how he wanted to answer, so he answered. How many failed teachers still teaching do you know…those are easy to find. And for Ray’s sake, McCain did say in jest that lefties would use the $5 million comment and have fun with it. How pathetic that they were suckered again…rich isn’t $5 million for the dems, $150,000 is, so you must pay!!…LOL Henry’s continued support of voter fraud was laid transparent by neocon.
As far as people who you listen to, mommy and grandma are not helpful and made Obama seem weak and effeminate. As McCain answered, advice for major problems should come from Generals and experts. Obama the wuss….ah, um, oh, uh, well, oh, uh….”where’s my hippie mommy…no get me a black one!!” The ‘above my paygrade’ comment and weak foundation on human rights will doom Obama. Lucky for him he didn’t use the Rev. Wright as his favorite mentor!!!
29. SEW | August 17th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Here we have a guy running for POTUS who is afraid to confess his voting record, which answers the question posed him. In front of cameras he votes PRESENT, when his record indicates kill them even after delivered, no human rights in utereo or after birth. Afraid to confess what is a fact of public record.
He should do great with the KGB. Cut and Run Barry.
30. majoriot | August 17th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Let’s see, McCain offers an opinion on when life begins and that means he’s right?
Obama offers that it is not something he can judge so he is waffling?
Interesting…
Neocon, my dear, having conviction doesn’t mean squat if your information has no basis in fact.
Swing and a miss…
31. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
majoriot sweetie,
So life beginning at conception has no basis in fact?
Care to prove that? I mean obviously you have the answer, otherwise you wouldn’t come off as so obtuse.
Can’t wait to see your proof
Or will this be another swing and a miss?
have a nice day
neocon
32. jayhay | August 17th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Warren came off as a reasonable guy that can listen and think, and appreciates a thoughtful answer even if he disagrees. He shows basic respect for his fellow Americans. You tools? Not so much…
And you guys are Christians? Y’all could learn a few things from Warren…
33. SEW | August 17th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
“Obama offers that it is not something he can judge so he is waffling?’
Obama has judged and he is not waffling. He answered “present.” His voting record is evidence of his judgment. Sorry Margie and Barry, can’t have it both ways. But Barry, thanks for that obtuse answer. Present.
34. David B. Schmidt | August 17th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
majoroit,
Make a choice– the question was “When do you believe life begins and the fetus obtains the rights of humans?” Wasn’t about when the court system or God believes–when Obama believes.
Still had to lawyer he ass out of that one–but one look at his voting record shows where he stands on that one. Technically, I think Obama could still abort you–but you are such a believer — he wouldn’t dismiss a vote.
He lawyered he ass out of everything. While I don’t completely agree with McCain–at least I know where he stands.
Black & White versus Shades of Grey–love how all the Obamamanics are trying to cover their betrothed.
BTW, Obama couldn’t even pick one of the four correct answers to the question about evil and then spent more time telling us that America (the cities) were more evil than those folks that like to cut off heads and hang folks from bridges–smooth.
35. jayhay | August 17th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Can you locals recommend a good conservative website?
36. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
jayhay,
Do something on your own for once. You’re a big boy, I am sure you’ll find one.
bye
neocon
37. Mark Noonan | August 17th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
I note, with great care, that none of you lefties are actually defending anything Obama said…
38. Mark Noonan | August 17th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
dickvee,
That a lefty comes in here to spin conspiracy theories shows that they know how badly Obama did…my view is that Obama still thinks he’s got the Presidency in the bag so he was just playing “prevent defense”…trouble is, he doesn’t have it in the bag, and the contrast between himself and McCain is stark, and all to McCain’s advantage. Had this been one of the big debates of the fall, I’d be saying this morning that McCain is the next President of the United States.
39. Upstart | August 17th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
For Repugs everything can be reduce to one issue Abortion; no mention of the war on poverty, nomention of the housing crisis, no mention of the war on terror, no mention of Iraq, no mention of the oil and drug companies picking those making less than $5 million clean.
Still waiting for why McCain says an abortion decision for his daughter is a private family matter. Seems he wants the choice for himself but not anyone else; how noble.
40. jayhay | August 17th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Noonan - Defending Obama here? What’s the point? You people think he’s the anti-Christ, not much room for discussion. Any attempts at engaging on issues is ignored unless it feeds some out-of-context talking point.
My original post was to say that I thought Warren did a good job, but no one here will touch a rational conversation. It’s all grade-school chatter and fundamentalist certainty. And as far as I can tell you never even watched the forum, a “civil forum” - but why muddy your view of Obama as pure evil? I thought both candidates did well for their constituents, and maybe some in the middle saw something new. You guys wouldn’t know civility if it ran for two hours in prime time.
41. Jeremiah | August 17th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
jayhay,
Well, I watched Obama…and I see at the heart of Obama a selfish-person … and he doesn’t realize how the decisions he will make as President will affect this country, giving organizations the power of a strong arm (most notably the Supreme Court) over Christian people. He didn’t mention it, but when he talked about America’s greatest moral failure, abortion was no where near his mind, he was thinking of how to get power, and lots of it. I see a snake in Obama.
42. Mark Noonan | August 17th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
jayhay,
No, it would be because your support for Obama is a negative thing - he’s not a Republican, he’s not George Bush, he’s not a conservative, he’s not John McCain.
Like this - I support John McCain because his balanced approach to energy (exploration, alternatives, etc) is best geared for both exploiting American strengths (our innovative ability) as well as covering our weakness (after decades of no new refineries or tapping existing oil reserves, we can’t just drill our way out of this but need to put everything on the table).
Now, you:
43. Mark Noonan | August 17th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Upstart,
McCain beats the heck out of Obama on those issues, too.
Your man’s got nothing - just an empty suit with a smooth line of talk (provided its well rehearsed and in front of a friendly audience).
44. SEW | August 17th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Obama in front of a friendly audience.
://www.nelsonguirado.com/index.php/asymmetric/2008/07/09/comprehensive-obama-flip-flop-list
45. Fredrick Schwartz | August 17th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
In the greatest sense of the idea of a federal republic, a sitting member of Congress or the president having a public opinion of when life begins IS ABOVE HIS OR HER PAYGRADE.
“Religious ideas and values should be allowed in the public sphere they just should not be matters of laws that all members of the repubic must by mandate follow.”–Pain, Terra Imortalis, Codex cxviii.
46. Upstart | August 17th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
43. Mark Noonan | August 17th, 2008 at 4:11 pm McCain beats the heck out of Obama on those issues, too.
Then where are McCain’s plans?
47. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Frederick,
Since you, and Pain have claimed to be “superior” and “multilocators”, why is it that you are unable to determine when life begins? That should be an easy one to you.
Care to explain?
neocon
48. Eric T | August 17th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Neocon-
Check out this table of abortion statistics, You can clearly see that abortions declined since George Bush took office. Alot of human lives saved by a pro-life administration. Even if John McCain takes some small steps to slow down, and reduce abortions he can keep numbers going in the same direction
49. Eric T | August 17th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-unitedstates.html
oops forgot the table
50. myopmcard | August 20th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
I have read every post here so far,.. wow what a read.
Confession Time: I up to the point of Saddleback was not convinced either way. I am part of the Mushy Middle, or Moderates.
I am convinced now, every ounce of my power to sway people will go to McCain’s camp. I and my household will vote for McCain.
This is proof that McCain’s efforts at gaining part of the Mushy Middle have worked. I was convinced to vote for McCain because of his succinct and truthful responses. He is a man who stands for what he believes.
The biggest copout response I have ever heard was Obama’s “Above my paygrade” I would rather have a president that makes a choice and sticks with it than a president who play’s to the crowd.
“Mccain had the questions before” Who the Fu** cares, even if he did he still had the answers that mattered. I don’t think it’s true, but I really think it’s a big pile of steaming dog poop as far as an issue goes. The fact is Obama sucked, and McCain Rocked.
I have enjoyed comments by: Neocon, Mark Noonan, David Schmidt, and a few more.
I think the following drink koolaid flavored with organic Democrats: JayHay, SEW, congressive.
Now, I won’t be back to defend this post so everyone who disagrees with me or wants to attack me will only be impressing themselves.
I give full executive power to Neocon to defend me, thanks