Ukraine Answers Russian Imperialism
August 17th, 2008 at 01:55pm Mark Noonan
I think that Russia’s adventure in Georgia just might turn out to be a fiasco:
Ukraine offers satellite defence co-operation with Europe and US
The proposal, made amid growing outrage among Russia’s neighbours over its military campaign in Georgia, could see Ukraine added to Moscow’s nuclear hitlist. A Russian general declared Poland a target for its arsenal after Warsaw signed a deal with Washington to host interceptor missiles for America’s anti-nuclear shield.
The move came as the Russian president, Dmitry Medvedev, signed a cease-fire deal that sets the stage for a Russian troop withdrawal after more than a week of warfare with its neighbour Georgia.
Russia has created a mountain of crisis, looks like it will obtain a mole hill of territory, and has angered just about everyone in Europe. Not a very slick move on Putin’s part. The analogy here is the Agadir crisis of 1911 - Germany stamped on its neighbor’s foot and the only real result of the aggressive act was a stronger anti-German alliance.
One thing we have to keep in mind here is that Putin and his gangsters aren’t all of Russia. While we do have to react in various anti-Russian ways, we must always keep the door open to more sensible Russians who may be able to force Putin out at some future date and re-set Russia on the patch of democracy.
Oh, as an aside: don’t you lefties who fought so hard against SDI feel like, well, a bunch of stupid fools? You know, like a bunch of suckers who fell first for communist propaganda about it, and now have fallen for Putin’s semi-fascist propaganda about it? Man, its gotta suck to be wrong about everything, all the time.
Entry Filed under: Foreign Affairs
27 Comments
1. Nate | August 17th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
how about w’s assessment of putin? that was wronger than wrong.
2. jayhay | August 17th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Noonan, the problem here is that you guys want it to be a Georgia = good guys and Russia = bad guys thing, which is typical black & white yahoo foreign policy. As to being wrong all the time, well, wow, that’s rich. And to compare to Germany in 1911 is also just laughable, even more than looking at this in 1980’s Cold War terms. You guys are just dangerous in your ham-fisted foreign policy, all wrapped up in the glory of war and international pissing contests.
This election will see if America wants another president that sees the world as black & white good vs. evil crap, or as something a tad more complex. I’m hoping as a nation we’ve grown up a bit, but we’ll see.
3. SEW | August 17th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Follow Hussein heyjay. Sit on the fence, or cut and run. KGB can’t wait for a Bambi administration.
4. jayhay | August 17th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
SEW - Like I said, if you like things black & white, vote McC. An easy choice. He’ll tell you what you want to hear - he’s even gotten much better telling evangelicals what they want to hear.
5. SEW | August 17th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
I’m voting against the socialist. Don’t like left of center, but much better than EXTREME left. Particularly with respect to taxes, abortion, Supreme Court and cut and run military philosophy.
A no brainer.
6. Timothy Horrigan | August 17th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
It is interesting that no one is calling for all-out war against Russia. Have they forgotten how we beat Saddam’s Iraq not ONCE but TWICE. Clearly Putin’s Russia has nothing to throw against us which could compare to Saddam’s Weapons of Mass Destruction, not to mention his incredibly accurate Scud missiles, his elite Democrat Guard (mistranslated as “Republican Guard”) and his mighty Hammurabai armored battalions.
Our military was mighty enough to defeat Iraq… IRAQ!!! Clearly a relative pipsqueak like Russia would be no match for us :-)
7. Rana Quijotesca | August 17th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Ummm… You do know that Georgia kinda started this, right? They kinda did a sneak attack on South Ossetia (sp?) and killed a bunch of Russian troops… The Russian response was a wee bit excessive (in the way that killing a fly with a flamethrower is a wee bit excessive), but it wasn’t unprovoked, as the writers of this blog would contend.
8. Robert | August 17th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
“Man, its gotta suck to be wrong about everything, all the time” - Mark Noonan
And another wonderful self-centered, egotistical, self-righteous and otherwise ignorant comment by Mark Noonan. Will wonders never cease.
Mark, you DON’T know everything, so stop pretending that you do. It is comments like this that make people think you have an ego.
Sheesh, you complain about Obama being egotistical. Compared to people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Mark Noonan, Obama is a meek pussycat.
YOU people are the ones who are ARROGANT!!!!
Not all Liberals are what you THINK they are!!!!
Not ALL of Liberalism is wrong “all the time and about everything.” Period.
Mark, if you truly think so, you are a crass and vain, arrogant man. There are GOOD people out there who are Liberals, and their beliefs have just as much value as yours.
I will keep beating that into your thick skull until you get it.
Liberals are NOT all bad. Many of them are MUCH better people than you because they are HUMBLE!!!
STOP HATING LIBERALS!!!!!!!
9. Mark Noonan | August 17th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Rana,
Georgia “provoked” Russia by sending Georgian troops into internationally recognised Georgian territory to pursue people who set off terrorist bombs in Georgia? Yeah, that makes all kinds of sense…
10. Jeremiah | August 17th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Haaaaaa haa haaaa
oh oh, haaaaa haaaaa haaaa! hahahaha!
Robert,
You crack me up!
Honestly, though, not everyone is like the majority Democrat controlled house. Not everyone is evil like Barack Obama and George Soros. That’s how you should be saying it…
But, as far as liberalism is concerned, it is wrong, because liberals have turned it into this radical individualism. It’s all about certain types of people, not the collective….legalizing murder, sodomy, this and that, this and that.
Although all may think of themselves as liberals, yet do not hold todays liberal values, it must be stressed that they are on the wrong side of the fence, because it’s not about life, family, and success anymore … but about a welfare state, and certain classes.
And that’s NOT hate, that is telling them the truth!
I see in you agenda, Robert, like I see in Obama, very deceptive.
11. Mark Noonan | August 17th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Robert,
I don’t hate liberals - I love liberals. But you are wrong about everything, all the time.
12. Robert | August 17th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Mark, so I guess “love” is about degrading people and telling them their values are wrong all of the time and about everything.
That is the same kind of “love” an abused woman gets when her husabnd tells her she can’t do anything right and then throws her through a wall. That is the same kind of “love” that a kid who is an artist gets from a father who says he needs to “be a man” and play football or else he is a weak pansy.
Mark, these examples do happen, and they come from people who do not see their own arrogance and how it affects others.
If you “love” Liberals when you say that there is nothing they can ever do or nothing they can ever believe in that is good or right, you ARE being that abusive husband.
If you “love” Liberals this way, I would hate to see what happens to the people you have hated.
13. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Get a grip Robert. Mark has a satirical side to him and some of his liberal comments are said tongue in cheek. I thought it was funny.
He also doesn’t, nor do we hate all liberals. In fact, Mark just endorsed Lieberman for VP, of which I oppose, but still it clearly contradicts your assertion.
Rana,
Over the last several years, the former KGB man Putin, has been trying to awaken Russian dominance. From the poisoning of Litvinenko, to the threatening overtures made towards the Ukraine and the other former Soviet republics, Putin is indeed the cause of this current struggle. He will also continue to amass power and dominance until stopped.
You can take the man away from the KGB, but you can’t take the KGB away from the man.
14. SEW | August 17th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Only Robert would use a capital L with liberals.
15. Mark Noonan | August 17th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Robert,
Hey, I never said liberals are pansies…there might be a sharp drop-off in testosterone the more liberal one becomes, but far be it from me to make invidious comparisons between, say, the relative manliness of fighter pilot war hero McCain and “community organiser” Barack Obama.
Be that as it may, I’ve explained this to you, very patiently, time after time - liberals are wrong about everything, all the time, because liberalism is wrong from the get go…the basic liberal concepts of materialism, determinism and the perfectability of mankind are demonstrably false and any worldview constructed on such concepts will get it wrong, no matter how well meaning the particular liberal is.
If you don’t want to be wrong, all the time and about everything, then cease being a liberal…but, meanwhile, you might be a swell guy and we can be friends…you’ll just be wrong, and I’ll be right, but I can deal with that…
16. Fredrick Schwartz | August 17th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Deleted - obscenity.
17. neocon | August 17th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Frederick darling,
You may want to look within your own ranks to find the Queen of Fools:
“·84. Pain | June 22nd, 2008 at 9:54 am
Do We feel superior to white American Christians?
Sure considering that We are smarter, wealthier, and can multilocate We, Ourselves of the Collective feel that means We are in many ways “superior.”
However, We do not feel We have the right to block their pursuit of happiness, their right to free speech or their right to life and liberty because of Our special nature! One can be “superior” and still not be oppressive or arrogant.”
have a hellac day
neocon
18. bongoman | August 17th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Right, and your invisible friend in the sky is demonstrably true?
19. Mark Noonan | August 17th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
bongo,
Irrelevant; faith in something greater than one’s self is not inherently destructive…faith, for instance, in the concept of the perfectibility of mankind will always end badly, and usually with a very, very large number of corpses…
20. bongoman | August 17th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Unlike the kind of faith espoused by Jeremiah? He’s constantly going on about wanting to kill people for violation of moral codes. Many of his posts deal with wanting to put people to death. If Jeremiah had his way, there’d be corpses everywhere.
Rarely, if ever, do you delete his posts, so I assume that is the kind of faith you are OK with? A faith that translates into authoritarian, theocratic government?
21. Jeremiah | August 17th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
A faith that translates into authoritarian, theocratic government?–bongoman
bongoman,
What is athoritarian about it? Or theocratic about it?
What is authoritarian about creating civil laws?
What is it you desire?
What would you like, for everybody to go about and do anything they please? Alright, well, let’s pretend for a minute there is no law .. let’s use some guy down the street by the name of “Mack daddy” ok, ol Mack daddy decides he sees a little 14 year old girl down the street, and begins to have thoughts in his head, so old Mack daddy waits on her at the street corner after school one day, and grabs her up and takes her and rapes her over and over … ok, we just forget about it, it’s “ok” we “respect” his decision.
That’s one instance where we respect the “right” of others to do as they please.
Another….now, remember, we’re doing as you want to do, bongoman, we’re going to do away with the law, because you want everybody to have their way … A man walks into New York City and he has a gun, and just starts to open fire on everybody he sees, he shoots as many as he wants as satisfies him and then walks away, nobody ever does a thing to him. People seen he got away, so others are soon to follow his actions.
Three….let’s say we legalize teaching children about all these different terms of sexuality across America … homosexuality,fisting, oral, sadomasochism, just a whole slew of evil minded things, and we teach them they’re “acceptable” …. no order, just do anything you want too, inscest and more rapings starts to take place … no laws.
Four…Let’s say we teach children how to use drugs, snorting, intravenous every kind, and no laws against drugs, what you going to have pretty soon, thousands of overdoses…Mass violence, chaos overtake the land.
Bongoman, my friend, I wish you understood how foolish and dangerous liberalism is.
I noticed in Mark’s latest thread about San Francisco legalizing prostitution … Well, something really bad will become of the that place, and SF may just well prove to you the insanity of liberalism.
If not, then I don’t think there’s any hope for you.
What is it you want … you want me to shut up?
If so, then all I ask is that somebody take my place, because I’m sure there is someone out there who would gladly take up my void.
Just say the words and, poof, I’ll be gone! Never come back…
22. Magnum Serpentine | August 18th, 2008 at 12:13 am
First of all, Joe Lieberman is not a liberal, he is a democratic in name only. he is closer to the obstructionist republic party than the democratic party.
When Russia entered the disputed area, they discovered Georgia genociding the citizens there. Russia stopped Georgian Genocide.
And that is how it is
Next.
23. Kahn | August 18th, 2008 at 1:38 am
Yes - liberals are wrong on every issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
24. ViralNexus | August 18th, 2008 at 3:26 am
Well that was a bunch of BS- thanks Kahn, I wasted 5 minutes of my life listening to that trash. Any man that speaks in absolutes and thinks they can box people into one of two categories is an idiot, plain and simple. People choose to adhere to one political affiliation because they have no choice in the matter. But just because they are forced to adhere to one or the other does not make them exactly the same as all the other who have been forced into the same position. To think that doesn’t make any logical sense.
To Jeremiah- any man who speaks in hypotheticals and then pretends that they are fact is the same as a man who speaks in absolutes- an idiot. It is however 100% fact that the law has LITTLE TO NO impact on the decisions of people who are willing to commit horrible acts. That isn’t to say the law doesn’t have its place but it is not a deterent to crime. The law provides a consequence for particular actions but unfortunately to many of those laws focus on acts that only affect individuals. The way I see it is that laws should be done away with and consequences for actions that negatively effect others should be enforced. Instead of saying it is illegal to rape you should be saying if you choose to rape someone you will be castrated. Obviously we will never be that harsh but telling someone that something is illegal will not convince them not to do it. As a Chrstian you have to believe that most people are relatively good and that the emphasis should be on punishing those people who are not.
As for the topic at hand. No one really knows what the situation is. Russia says Georgia was trying to wipe South Ossettia (of whom most residents are Russian and have Russian citizenship). Georgia says it was fighting terrorists that have been attacking them. Its hard telling what exactly happened but I think this whole situation is geting out of hand pretty fast. We keep saying that the Missile Sheild that we want to install is not for Russia and is instead for rogue states like Iran and Syria. The problem I have with that is that Russia is in the best position to stop such attacks from rogue nations and should have the MS in their country as they said they were willing to do. The other problem I have with this is that, as a former PATRIOT Missle System Operator/Maintainer I am well aware that the US does not have an effective surface to air missle defense system. PATRIOT is the most effective to date and it has horrible accuracy problems. When I was serving in Kuwait on an air defense mission in 2004 the issues with our system were so bad that fighter jets were bombing our radars because we were locking on to them. PATRIOT was responsible for knocking out more friendlies than enemy fire during the war. Point being I have very little faith in the ability of any Missle Sheild capabilities and it makes me question the purpose of such a system.
25. cyb3r_n1nja | August 18th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
I think that Russia’s [The U.S.'] adventure in Georgia [Iraq] just might turn out to be a fiasco.
Russia [The U.S.] has created a mountain of crisis, looks like it will obtain a mole hill of territory (depends, to be seen - but likely a lot more), and has angered just about everyone in Europe (without question - but we don’t care about Europe again, do we?). Not a very slick move on Putin’s [Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld's] part.
I mean, I didn’t even have to try… it fit way too perfectly. Well done, gents.
:)
26. Jeremiah | August 18th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Virus,
To say someone should be castrated for raping someone else, (think!!) So is that a statment or a LAW that say castration would be the consequences of such actions. Without the law I saw not righteousness but because of the law I commended myself to be brought into submission said the Apostle Paul.
27. Pom Pom Girl | August 27th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
How To Punish Russia
There are many soft ways to punish Russia for its exploits in Georgia, from removing them from the G8, reducing the requirements for NATO entry as well as installing missile defense systems in countries near them. However, if you really want to hurt Russia and not directly threaten them you need to lower the cost of their number one economic export, OIL.
Congress should immediately approve the US coastline for drilling and approve the building of 45 new nuclear power plants in the next 20 years. The impact on speculators looking at the supply demand curve for oil will be dramatic. With a resulting drying up of funds for both Russia and several of our enemies, as well as these two power sources generating long term federal tax dollars for the U.S. this is a win, win, win for America.