Obama’s Two Nations
August 29th, 2008 at 01:27am Mark Noonan
Victor Davis Hanson nails it, as usual:
If Obama were to win, no one would infer from the desolation he described in America, that he may well inherit an economy, in a downturn, that just grew at 3.3 in the last quarter, an unemployment rate of 5.7%, and record levels of exportation, one that did not go into recession with $140 a barrel oil, with more students in college than at any time in its history and more than any other nation in the world, with a war in Iraq nearly won, and both the Taliban and Saddam Hussein gone and replaced with constitutional governments — and Europe, whether in France, Germany, or Italy, with strong pro-American leadership.
No one would infer that after our enemies blew a 16-acre crater in New York and attacked the Pentagon — and promised lots more to come — we have not been hit since, but in contrast, al Qaeda’s leaders are either in hiding, scattered, imprisoned, or killed, with bin Laden and the tactic of suicide bombing with record low levels of support in the Middle East.
His bottom line: our enemies are winning, AK-47s are ubiquitous in our streets, our economy is in depression, and gay people can’t visit their dying partners in our hospitals. In short, “Hope and Change” has became gloom and doom and there is something for everybody from government to save us.
This message, I’ll point out, has been a loser for the Democrats - with the exception of 1992, when there was a split GOP vote allowing a Democrat to slip in under the wire. Will it work in 2008? Perhaps - and if it does, then so be it. People get the government they deserve, and if Obama wins they’ll get it good and hard.
Now the attention will turn to McCain - though the MSM will try to keep at least some of the attention on Obama through the next week. McCain’s task is difficult but also rather simple - keep pointing out that he has real plans backed by real experience, while Obama has highflying rhetoric backed by nothing. In this anti-GOP year, the only Democrat who can lose is Obama, and the only GOPer who can win is John McCain, and as of right now I don’t know which man will win, which is odd for me because, on Presidential elections, I’m usually able to pick out the winner by this time of year.
As Nevada Pundit pointed out to me earlier, Obama has given McCain plenty of opportunities to pick apart Obama’s speech and cast yet more doubt on whether Obama is in the American mainstream, and whether or not Obama’s plans are grounded in reality, or leftwing wishfull thinking. We’ll see soon if McCain sees his chance and takes them - and we’ll also see whether Obama can razzle-dazzle a majority into blindnes long enough to win in November.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, DNC08, Democrats, RNC08, Republicans
29 Comments
1. coulterfan | August 29th, 2008 at 1:32 am
Ummm. . .
Do YOU like the economic and foreign policies of GW Bush? Do YOU really think the country is better off now than it was 8 years ago?
Remember, the Right track/Wrong track numbers are about 20/80. The vast majority of Americans have mounting credit card debt, decreasing wages, rising fuel prices, increasing cost of food and clothing, and rising health care costs. Not everyone has it as good as Bush, Cheney, McCain, and Romney- most of us are fighting to keep our ONE home (and working multiple jobs in order to do so).
Or maybe its all in our imaginations. Maybe we are just a “nation of whiners” as the McCain camp seems to believe.
2. LiberalMind | August 29th, 2008 at 1:36 am
You forget that Al Gore received more votes in 2000 than Mr. Decider Commander Guy, Ralph Nader notwithstanding.
And you margin of “victory” was a mere 60,000 in Ohio, voter disenfranchisement included.
Bye Bye GOP!
3. Mark Noonan | August 29th, 2008 at 1:51 am
liberal,
Still lost, though, and had Gore gone a little less kook left he might have won his home State, and thus we would have been spared that long, bizarre attempt by Gore to steal Florida’s electoral votes after he lost them fair and square.
4. Mark Noonan | August 29th, 2008 at 2:04 am
coulter,
Better off than we would have been under the Goron and his “no controlling legal authority”, cash-stuffed envelopes and penchant for the bald-faced lie…
5. ezineaerticles » Bl&hellip | August 29th, 2008 at 2:12 am
[...] Original post by unknown [...]
6. IndyInCalifornia | August 29th, 2008 at 2:14 am
Arguing about past elections is non-productive. I’m a registered independent and I found Obama’s speech to be inspiring. I haven’t found McCain to be terribly inspiring of late. McCain the senator was one thing, but McCain the candidate seems to be another. Backtracking on his own positions–e.g. tax cuts–and resorting to the petty, negative campaign tactics of the past Bush campaigns doesn’t make me want to vote for him very much.
It seems that since the Newt Gingrich days, all that the Republicans stand for is attempting to stay in power. Conservatives have abandoned their own principles. I’ve never contributed to a candidate or become active in any way, but that changed this year. A lot of us are fed up with Bush and his cronies. It’s time to get off our butts and do something about it.
7. Mark Noonan | August 29th, 2008 at 2:31 am
Indy,
Do as you wish, but I question the wisdom of supporting a man who’s policy prescriptions are merely the warmed-over, failed liberal policies of the past…doing something about our problems is a great thing…but electing someone who can’t even identify the problem is counter-productive.
And just what are you inspired to do? Write a check to Obama? Figure that electing him is a morally positive act? Or are you actually inspired to do something - on your own - to make life better for your fellow man. One thing I am heartily tired of is morality on the cheap from liberals…
8. Nevada Pundit | August 29th, 2008 at 2:38 am
I’m not sure what was inspiring about Obama’s speech. By all means it was written well and delivered eloquently but an inch deep into the words and there is nothing left. Nothing new was in the speech; it was the same old rhetoric that the dems have been spouting for quite a while now. Nothing in Obama’s short lived senatorial history suggests that what he says is what he will do. In fact in many areas what he said is exactly the opposite of what he has done.
In regards to the attack ads that McCain has been running, why shouldn’t he. In his and many people’s opinion Obama in uniquely unqualified to be president, why shouldn’t he point out Obama’s flaws. Policy is half of the president, character and effectiveness are the other half. As far as I have seen Obama has no substantial policy and hasn’t been around long enough for the country to decide on character and effectiveness. If you are still turned off by McCain’s attacks remember that McCain used whole quotes to attack Obama, while in Obama’s speech he had to resort to snippets of conversations to attack McCain. Obama for Change in ‘08, I’m thinking Chance ‘08 at best.
9. LiberalMind | August 29th, 2008 at 2:41 am
Mark Noonan:
I hardly think the liberal policies of Social Security a failure…
Or the liberal policies of paid vacations, or 40 hour work weeks and granting women the right to vote “failures” of liberal values….
Not to mention ending slavery which is of course a “liberal” value the the Republican Party once championed….
Yeah, all those “failed” liberal values, like ending segregation and outlawing child labor…
F**k those liberals…..
10. Nevada Pundit | August 29th, 2008 at 3:05 am
LiberalMind…Social Security is a failure, havn’t you heard it is going broke and no one seems to want to fix it. Paid Vacations is not part of the FLSA. Ending slavery was done by a Republican president and no president since then has thought to bring it back.
Susan B Anthony inspired the movement for an amendment allowing women to vote, President Wilson (D) only caved in and supported the movement after it started to cast his office in a bad light.
Granted FDR was a democrat and in office during the creation of FLSA and that was a good idea.
Interesting enough though Wilson and Roosevelt both entered into a war and attacked Germany which up to that point never did attack the U.S.
11. What? | August 29th, 2008 at 3:13 am
“that he may well inherit an economy, in a downturn, that just grew at 3.3 in the last quarter, an unemployment rate of 5.7%, and record levels of exportation, one that did not go into recession with $140 a barrel oil, with more students in college than at any time in its history and more than any other nation in the world”
Please,
The Fed said that he expected the economy would remain weak for the rest of the year, and probably not recover to its full growth potential until 2009.
From October to December of 2007, the economy actually contracted. It grew at an anemic 0.9 percent rate from January to March of this year.
The export market is a result of the weaker dollar. This will change once the dollar strengthens. AS exports fall, we will have to start consuming more. Given consumer confidence levels as a result of debt this is unlikely. Whoever this guy is, he fails to mention the drop in real wages, rising inflation, massive trade deficit, and dipping corporate profits.
Also, college students are now paying more for that education than ever.
As for the Iraq War and Al Queda, I find it dubious to state that we have won the war or that Al Queda has been substantially weakened by our efforts given it operates in dozens of countries.
This “author” forgets the nature of the 9/11 attack and doesn’t understand the structure of Al Queda. It was the result of less than two dozen men who had very little contact with one another. They operated out of Saudi Arabia, Germany and the U.S. They had little of no contact with Bin Ladin or other leaders.
It is impossible to say how much we have hurt Al Queda given its loose style of organization. it members are linked by a common ideology as oppose to relationships.
AS for the Iraq War, we have not won yet because 20% of the nation is not a part of the political process. This part also happens to be armed. Until the Sunnis are integrated into the government, the government cannot be deemed stable.
Cherry-picking is fine. However, if these econmic “accomplishments” and vague declaration of victory are the best cherries to be had, you shouldn’t bother. No one is fooled except maybe you, Mark.
12. Mark Noonan | August 29th, 2008 at 3:25 am
Liberal,
Nevada jumped on it before I could - but I’ll also point out that your much beloved Social Security is actually a scheme first hatched by Prince Otto von Bismarck, Chancellor of the German Empire, as a means to tie people to government dependency in order to mute their desire to cause government - ie, Prince Bismarck - any trouble. The United States was late getting into the social security scam as Americans have a long and health aversion to government, but the stars aligned just right for the left in the 1930’s and we got saddled with that regressive, impoverishing, good for nothing program.
One thing you should keep in mind about your liberalism - its mostly ideas first put into practice as long back as two centuries ago; it has never worked; it never will work. Why? Because its built upon the lie of the perfectibility of mankind.
As an aside - you might think that 40 hour work weeks and paid vacation are a good thing, but they are just more bones thrown to you by a liberal ruling class…conservatives never agreed with wildfire capitalism any more than they liked socialism. We want people to be free, independent…as far as possible able to take care of themselves and their own, and working together through club, church and social group to take care of their communal affairs as they see fit…it was liberals who shoved us into factories and cubicles and foisted upon us a system run by fools using the rules of idiots. You only hate wealth when held by non-liberals, just as you only fear power when wielded by non-liberals…we conservativefs don’t hate wealth at all, and are determined that, as far as we can swing it, those who have most power over us should be directly answerable to us at the polls.
13. Thrower | August 29th, 2008 at 3:26 am
For the record, Pundit, Germany declared war on us after the Pearl Harbor attack by the Japanese.
14. LiberalMind | August 29th, 2008 at 3:30 am
Nevada Pundit:
The Republican Party of Lincoln and Dwight Eisenhower is nothing like the GOP of Rove, Bush and Tom Delay.
Neither is the Democratic Party that of the Dixiecrats of yesteryear.
And as a matter of history, Germany declared war on the U.S. after Pearl Harbor and all that.
Social Security is solvent for another 40 years and could be “fixed” if the contribution level was raised to $95,000 or so.
I gladly participate in the redistribution of my “wealth” to the elderly to prevent them falling into poverty and America becoming a third world nation.
To all those who excoriate liberal views, please sign over your aid vacations, paid sick days and future Social Security checks to me.
I will provide an account number at Washington Mutual so you can easily transfer all funds.
15. Nevada Pundit | August 29th, 2008 at 3:50 am
Well as long as you believe that neither party is like the party of long ago then stop throwing those accomplishments at us since they have nothing to do with your party.
While Social Security is solvent for another 40 years this should be longer if the government didn’t mess it up, even with this said still no one is fixing it. While I disagree with your idea of how to fix it, even if you where right your canditate is no longer proposing it. Obama skirted away from the issue saying it could wait until 2019 (after he his out of office).
Finally, neither party is saying we should abandon our elderly. What I don’t want, but you don’t seem to mind, is to have my tax dollars go directly into tax rebates allowing people to get much more from the system than they put in. These refunds do go just to the old, children or handicapped, they go to anyone demend not making enough on their own. Sorry if you disagree with me but that I do mind. If you want to level the playing field so that poor income families have equal opportunities to suceed then great I am all for it, but I’m not for handouts.
16. Obama08 | August 29th, 2008 at 3:53 am
He has risen!
Then go quickly and tell America that liberalism is risen from the dead. Liberals are going ahead of you into Washington, and you will see successful government there. Remember, I have told you!”
Be not afraid!
The Conservatives have been smoted!
Thus sayest the people!
17. Nevada Pundit | August 29th, 2008 at 3:53 am
insert fix-it here…third paragraph…These refunds DO NOT GO.
18. Nevada Pundit | August 29th, 2008 at 3:56 am
You really want to see what I think about Social Security go here.
http://nevadapundit.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/obama-wants-to-lead-us-down-the-path-to-socialism/
19. Nevada Pundit | August 29th, 2008 at 4:04 am
Proof I need to go to bed. Sorry but I placed the wrong link above. Please try this one.
http://nevadapundit.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/social-securityrun-for-your-life/
And with that, good night all.
20. Heather | August 29th, 2008 at 4:14 am
Dear Mark:
Concerning Obama’s speech it was lofty but rather ordinary liberal rhetoric. A key point here that everyone is missing is that Obama was lying especially about tax cuts. Is there any conservative here that honestly believes that Obama will actually cut Taxes?
One thing that really frustrates me is the liberal media treating Obama with velvet gloves, especially this overrated nonsense about his oratory skills which in my personal opinion are rather slightly above average. I wont totally fault the liberal media, if you compare him to recent examples of Al Gore, John Kerry, etc well then you may call his speeches exceptional, now however if you go back into recent history and compare them to a mixture of Dem’s Republicans etc Mario Cumo, Martin Luther King Jr, Adlai Stevenson, Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, or farther back in history Lincoln, Washington, and many great philosophers throughout history Obama’s oratory and writing skills are rather ordinary.
As for how Obama’s speech will affect the election, it saddens me to say that he will get at the very least get a 4 point bump if not even higher depending how the liberal media plays of on the speech, I have no idea what Bil Kristol was thinking when he praised Obama’s speech, the most sensible critique of it was from Nina Easton. Normally I agree with Charles Krauthammer, but not this time I honestly think Charles overanalyzed the speech and as for his point that it would appeal to “Reagan Democrats” the speech may have very well done so, but will that translate into votes, well I’m not so sure it will. At the end of the day I hope that American common sense will perservere and people will not buy into Obama’s lies.
The one thing Obama’s speech displayed was that he came to the realization that America as a whole is right of center and his speech reflected that, be here is the question every American has to ask his/herself and that is who is the real Obama… The Obama of the nomination or the “cling to their guns and religion” Obama, I believe it’s the latter, but each and every American will have to make that decision for themselves, I can only hope and pray its for the sensible choice, that being Sen. John McCain
–Heather
21. Danish Artist | August 29th, 2008 at 6:20 am
“He has risen!” - a little Messiah envy? Your guy is far from that.
Risen? A six point bounce???? - Gore had more of a bounce after his speech.
“Be not afraid.” - I’m not!!! The “speech of a lifetime” flopped big time. It was nothing but usual liberal attacks and rhetoric. The Clinton convention was more of a success - nothing but Clinton coverage for the first three days!!!
The “documentary, the set, the sound and lighting was nothing more than an extension of his IMAGE campaign that is desperately needed to offset his complete lack of experience.
Obama has consistently made bad choices in his campaign - Wright, Ayers, image, message, VP, etc. etc. - how can a man who is consistently wrong be qualified for President???
Oh, yeah, he wants change.
22. searp | August 29th, 2008 at 6:30 am
Bbbbuttt Obama isn’t awesome! Your eyes are deceiving you! He is a radical/tyro/Democrat/pansy! Vote for the old guy!
Oh yeah, I can’t wait for November.
23. sunrunner | August 29th, 2008 at 8:04 am
Does anyone have the Republican convention schedule as to when Bush will deliver we are financially better off and safer today than eight years ago speech? At a minimum he should have Allan Greenspan and Joe Wilson proof read it.
24. neocon | August 29th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Do YOU really think the country is better off now than it was 8 years ago? - coulter
Personally, I am much better off than I was 8 years ago, but then again I have been working my tail off the last 8 years and not sitting around complaining and hoping someone would do sosomething for me.
It’s funny how that works.
25. IndyInCalifornia | August 29th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Mark, re: your response in #7, I question the wisdom of supporting the policies of the Bush administration and his follow-up act, John McCain. Conservatism used to stand for individual liberties. No longer. Conservatism used to stand for fiscal responsibility. That doesn’t seem to be the case anymore, either, considering Reagan/Bush I quadrupled the national debt in 12 years, and Bush II promptly turned a budget surplus into record deficits. Whereas Dems are criticized as “tax and spend,” Republicans seem to be “cut taxes and spend anyway.” And there’s no excuse for the Republicans: They held the White House and the congress.
Then there’s the Iraq war, which by any objective view, we conducted on false pretenses. The recent statements regarding Georgia by Condolleezza Rice and George Bush are so hypocritical to be laughable: “Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century,” Bush said on August 15. Rice condemned Russia for “using the one tool that it has always used whenever it wishes to deliver a message and that’s its military power. That’s not the way to deal in the 21st century.” I love that he used the term “bullying.” In my view, Bush’s foreign policy has confused leading with bullying all along. They aren’t the same. The post 9/11 world desperately needed America to lead; we didn’t do it.
To get back to your original post, I don’t think we are safer since 9/11 at all. Sure, we haven’t been hit since, but that doesn’t mean we are safer. The problem is that in conducting post-9/11 foreign policy, the Bush administration HAS squandered America’s moral high ground. That will have consequences. We will pay for Abu Ghraib and Guantanemo and torturing for decades. We ourselves provided all the recruitment material terrorist groups like Al Qaeda need, and then some. Our intelligence and foreign policy efforts with respect to terrorism have been badly compromised because of our own policies. A nuclear bomb WILL explode in a major US city. Our own intelligence community says it is a matter of when, not if. It won’t happen on Bush’s watch, so I guess he can rest easy, secure in the knowledge that he did all that he could.
And to get back to John McCain, why should I respect him at this point, let alone be inspired? He’s transformed from McCain the maverick senator to McCain the Rovian candidate. Obviously he did so because it has been shown to work, but he gave up his integrity in the process. It’s actually kind of sad. There is nothing inspiring in it at all. Does he really think that a registered independent such as myself will look at the campaign he’s been running and say, “Yeah, I need to get out there and do something for him”?
You asked what I am inspired to do. I’m over 50 years old. I’ve never contributed to any political candidate in my life until now. Yes, I’ve already written a check to Barack Obama, and now that you mention it, I need to write another one. This week I went to my first volunteer meeting for the Obama campaign.
Mark, I respect your reasonable reply to my first post, and that you permit this kind of discussion here, but you did get a little snarky when you implied that I and liberals don’t do anything to “make life better for your fellow man.” I was talking about being inspired to do something politically, But yes, I have volunteered a significant amount of my time to non-profit service orgs over the last decade. For years, the wife and I have spent a lot of time volunteering in the local public school system, and we still do, even though our kids are graduated. Does that answer your question?
26. IndyInCalifornia | August 29th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Heather, you wrote, “A key point here that everyone is missing is that Obama was lying especially about tax cuts.” I guess you assume that Obama simply can’t or won’t keep his word. It’s interesting that you should bring that up. I recall a certain Republican president that famously said, “Read my lips: no new taxes,” during his presidential campaign, and then raised them anyway once he got into office. So I can understand why you would have some reservations about a presidential candidate keeping his word on that.
And what of McCain? Do we believe McCain the candidate, who says he will make the Bush tax cuts permanent, federal deficit be damned? Or do we believe McCain the senator, who on May 25, 2001, on the floor of the senate stated that he opposed the first round of Bush tax cuts because “so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us, at the expense of middle class Americans who most need tax relief.”
27. Mark Noonan | August 29th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Indy,
You are so clearly an overt supporter of Obama and a complete liberal…why try to come here and snow us with the “indy” label? Its not an “objective view” that Iraq was started under false pretences - that is a “paranoid kook” view of how it started.
Drop the false flag, openly proclaim yourself the ultra-liberal you are, and then get back to me…
28. Mark Noonan | August 29th, 2008 at 10:09 am
sunrunner,
Have Joe Wilson vet it? So that Joe can finally see what the truth looks like?
Only in the screwball left is a proven serial liar like Joe Wilson held in respect…
29. Jay Gaultieri | August 29th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Yes, we have been hit since 9/11. Anthrax and ricin. Just because the Bushies pretend it never happened doesn’t mean it didn’t. And German submarines attacked American ships within 12 miles of US shores in 1917. Just proof Bushies know nothing of history due to their horrible home and “Christian” schools where they get taught God put dinosaur bones in the ground to test our faith and that the sun revolves around the Earth.