God and War
Tags: MSM, President Bush, Sarah Palin, The One.
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One of the bits of the Palin interview which is causing liberals to go bonkers:
GIBSON: I take your point about Lincoln’s words, but you went on and said, “There is a plan and it is God’s plan.”
PALIN: I believe that there is a plan for this world and that plan for this world is for good. I believe that there is great hope and great potential for every country to be able to live and be protected with inalienable rights that I believe are God-given, Charlie, and I believe that those are the rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
That, in my world view, is a grand — the grand plan.
GIBSON: But then are you sending your son on a task that is from God?
PALIN: I don’t know if the task is from God, Charlie. What I know is that my son has made a decision. I am so proud of his independent and strong decision he has made, what he decided to do and serving for the right reasons and serving something greater than himself and not choosing a real easy path where he could be more comfortable and certainly safer.
Never willing to sacrifice themselves for others and convinced that death is the worst thing which can happen to them, liberals and MSMers (I know, same/same) simply cannot grasp what Governor Palin is saying here. Anyone non-liberal, and especially anyone closely connected to the Jewish and Christian traditions, easily understands what is being said here – God has a plan and that plan is for the good of the world and each person in the world. We won’t – we cannot – say that God instructed the younger Palin to enlist in the Army; but we can say that if he prayed on the matter and asked God to guide him true, then his enlistment in the military will be in accordance with God’s overall plan now or at some time in the future.
Liberals see terrorists kill; they see American soldiers kill – they then do a bit of liberal thinking and come to the conclusion that there is a great deal of similarity here and as killing is wrong, both the soldier and the terrorist must be in some respects wrong…and each of them, in turn, has a claim upon our compassion. But the truth of the matter is that the most dyed-in-the-wool jihadist doesn’t want someone to set off a bomb in his home neighborhood – and thus the terrorist, as he sets his bomb in the Baghdad marketplace, knows that what he is doing is wrong…meanwhile, the Marine hunting the terrorists knows that if someone were setting a bomb in his neighborhood, he’d love and honor the man who stopped it from happening – and thus the Marine knows what he is doing is right. If the Marine shoots the terrorist at the very moment the terrorist sets off the bomb, killing the Marine, then both of them will die at the same time – but the place they’ll respectively go to will likely be very different, as the one died sacrificing himself for others (no greater love, as it were), while the other was killed in the act of unspeakable evil. On the other hand, if a Marine in battle against a regular soldier enemy kills his enemy and is killed at the same time, both men will probably find their reward, as both sacrificed the self, even though one – or even both – were fighting for a wrong cause.
God does have a plan – I can’t presume to tell you what, exactly, it is, but given that God is good, the plan must be for the good. While we can’t say that God approved of President Bush’s decision to liberate Iraq, we can be certain that liberating Iraq will work perfectly in God’s plan. And if you think about it, you can start to see it – hundreds of thousands of Americans and allies have learned how to sacrifice the self; hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have learned how to govern and defend themselves; people who may have contemplated joining the terrorists have gotten a good, long look at how terrorists operate and are thus far less likely to ever join that side – and the ripples of these good things will go far beyond Iraq and effect positively many lives for many long generations. So, what Governor Palin is on about isn’t what liberals want to believe she’s on about – she’s not talking holy war, but talking about the nobility of self-sacrifice and entrusting one’s self to God.
Alien ideas to liberals, and so Gibson didn’t get it and, indeed, seemed offended by the whole concept. Really, its rather sad – and all the more sad when one thinks about it that Sarah Palin’s son (and so many thousands like him) are what stands between the Gibsons of the world and total destruction…those who believe in God and sacrifice themselves because God telles them to are held in contempt by those who disbelieve in God and who would surrender abjectly if ever placed under the slightest strain.
Thank you for visiting Blogs For Victory. If you enjoy our content, please consider making a donation to help us cover the costs of our servers.Mark Noonan is co-author (with Matt Margolis) of Caucus of Corruption: The Truth About The New Democratic Majority. He also blogs at Nevada News and Views. Follow Mark on Twitter.
45 Responses to “God and War”
Caucus of Corruption
Liberals need to understand that FDR, JFK, and Reagan have all said essentially the same thing. And Lincoln’s prayer was not to ask God to be on our side, but to ask God if we were on his side, and pray that it be so.
A Higher power is not the only concept liberals don’t understand.
God’s Plan…what a totally foreign concept to liberals in general and Demo?rats in particular.
so to put it in as few words possible…they are ignorant…
I had hoped that the Left would employ this strategy, but didn’t think that would. It appears I grossly underestimated the Left’s capacity for arrogance and stupidity. Considering over 80% of Americans identify themselves as Christians, this approach is a non-starter. But hey, Lefties. If you want to see the largest electoral landslide in American history, just keep going out of your way to offend the vast majority of Americans.
Neocon,
Just for comparison, here is FDR’s prayer to the nation on D-Day:
Mark,
Just a real quick one here. People do NOT have to believe in the Christian God to sacrifice themselves for others This is NOT a foreign concept to Liberals.
There are MANY Liberal soldiers – as well as police, firemen, etc.. who would give their lives for someone else.
Maybe a Liberal soldier has died for someone you know. Please, please stop putting Liberals into one basket. They are not all like you THINK they are. Please, please realize that many Liberals have many of the same values that you do.
Please realize that you and a Liberal might have more in common than you think.
Self-sacrific is NOT exclusively a Christian concept or a Conservative concept. Please, Mark, please realize that.
Please, please realize that many Liberals have many of the same values that you do.
Like what, Robert. Give a few examples.
In all fairness, I suspect you may be a Liberal in more of the classical sense. There are still a few present-day holdovers from classic Liberalism, but, by and large, Liberalism has been hijacked in the last 3 or 4 decades by what can best be described as Leftists — not quite Communists, but more than Socialists. Based on your comments, I doubt that you would include yourself in such a group.
spook, i think what you are refering to is called communocialist.
Yes it’s sad to see the Liberal agenda get hijacked by self-serving politicians.
And if we ever have actual fiscally Conservative representatives in the highest office, then you’ll see something.
Mark said: “But the truth of the matter is that the most dyed-in-the-wool jihadist doesn’t want someone to set off a bomb in his home neighborhood – and thus the terrorist, as he sets his bomb in the Baghdad marketplace, knows that what he is doing is wrong…meanwhile, the Marine hunting the terrorists knows that if someone were setting a bomb in his neighborhood, he’d love and honor the man who stopped it from happening – and thus the Marine knows what he is doing is right.”
LOL. Is this satire?
The terrorists are human beings no different from our troops who fight for the same reasons our Marines fight… to protect their nation/tribe, to advance a cause they believe in, to get away from their old boring lives back home, for the adventure of it, because it seems preferable to a regular job, for the money and most of all to not let down their comrades in arms.
The terrorists may be supporting an evil cause, but they don’t know it’s evil. In fact, when they’re out fighting, the evilness or goodness of the cause is of little concern.
Timothy,
That is where you are flat wrong.
This is the explanation of “judge not, lest ye be judged”. By your own judgements you will be judged. If you could ask a terrorist if it is right for Americans to set time bombs in Arab neighborhoods to randomly kill whomever happens to be around, he’ll tell you that such a thing is an outrage and he’ll demand it be stopped and those who do it be punished. I know its wrong for set off a bomb in a neighborhood; you know its wrong; the terrorist knows its wrong. Certainly, the terrorist rationalises away his evil act, just as all who do wrong rationalise away all doubts – but that doesn’t make a wrong action any less wrong.
Don’t you notice? The Marines brought aid to Iraqis…the terrorists started going mad with the power they had, cutting off the heads of children who’s parents were insufficiently servile to the terrorists, banning smoking, ruthlessly attacking any woman who stepped out of line. To say that the Marine and the terrorist are motivated by the same thing is to take an insanely stupid view of the world…a view not supported by fact, but only by a fantasy which equates all killing with no thought to why a person kills. If the terrorists were motivated like the Marines, they would have acted like the Marines – willing to fight; ruthless in battle as necessary, brave beyond belief….but once the fighting stops, as gentle as lambs with those who don’t fight them.
You are speaking like a fool, and the pity of it is that you don’t see it.
Would it be fair to say that American neo con soldiers and the backup keyboard/boardroom battalion are going to be floating on little white clouds, playing the harp, whilst lovely white angels float so peacefully around them?
While…
Liberals, and those peace mongering hippies, communists, socialists, and well, anybody that doesn’t fit your mold, all burn in some brimstone smelling, demon filled, pitchfork poking, raging hell fire of damnation place?
Please Noonan. Get a grip.
One thing is for sure, we can know God’s Will for our personal lives, and it’s what He wants for our personal lives that we should convey to others – His Word tells us what His Will is for our lives – Ephesians 5:15 – ‘Be very careful, then, how you live–not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil.’
You know, in John 3:17-18 … It says, ‘For God did not send His Son ito the world to condemn the world, bu to save the world through him. However believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the nsame of God’s one and only Son.’ …
So, it stands to note that we do not have to condemn the Islamists (Terrorists) for their wicked actions, because they are condemned already because of their disbelief, and which, they are driven not by the Holy Spirit, but by the Devil The Father of All Lies, and that’s why they do what they do, because they have no understanding of what’s right because of he false ideology that is Islam, one of satan’s lies. This goes for any belief system which deviates from what God’s Word says, Atheism for example, Atheists are in the same boat as the Islamists. although they may not murder like the Islamists they condemned for their disbelief…yet, God still loves them, and has a better way for them.
One of our Founding Fathers can testify to this, one of the Revolution, Governor Morris of New York. This is what he said regarding religion and it’s role in solidifying a free governmet, this was written during Atheisms reign in France, as he drew up a Constitution for that country. One article as follows:
“Religion is the solid basis of good morals: therefore education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man towards God. These duties are — internally, love and adoration; externally, devotion and obedience: therefore provision should be made for maintainig divine worship as well as education. But each has a right to entire liberty as to religious opinions, for religion is the relation between God and man: therefore it is not within the reach of human authority.’ “The education of young citizens,” another article declared, “ought to form them to good manners, to accustom them to labor, to inspire them with a love of order, and to impress them with respect for lawful authority.”
This is what he said regarding Christianity–
“The reflection and experience of many years have led me to consider the holy writings not only as most authentic and instructive in themselves, but as the clue to all other history. They tell us what man is, and they alone tell us what he is. All of private and of public life is there displayed. Form the same pure fountain of wisdom we learn that vice destroys freedom, that arbitrary power is founded on public immorality, and that misconduct in those who rule a republic, the necessary consequence of general licentiousness, so disgusts and degrades that, dead to generous sentiment, they become willing slaves. “There must be religion. When that ligament is torn, society is disjointed, and its members perish. The nation is exposed to foreign violence and domestic convulsion. Vicious rulers, chosen by a vicious people, turn back the current of corruption to its source. Placed in a situation where they can exercise authority for their own emolument, they betray their trust. They take bribes. They sell statutes and decrees. They sell honor and office. They sell consience. They sell their contry. By this vile practice they become odious and contemptible. “The most important of all lessons from the Scriptures is the denunciation of the rulers of every state that rejects the precepts of religion. Those nations are doomed to death who bury in the corruption of criminal desire the awful sense of an existing God, cast off the consoling hope of immortality, and seek refuge from despair in the dreariness of annihilation. Terrible, errevocable doom–loudly pronounced, repeatedly, strongly exemplified in the sacred writings, and fully confirmed by the long record of time! It is the clue which leads through the intricacies of universal history. It is the principle of all sound political science.”
So, you see, we can have religion, but unless we have faith in the One true Creator of all, and incorporate that into every facet of American life and law, we can’t survive as a nation. That’s why all these other countries are failing, because they have their own ideology believing in themselves….and believing in one’s self will get you nowhere, as Jesus said in John 5:30 – ‘By Myself I can do nothing.’ In other words, without the guidance and strength of God’s Holy Spirit, we have no power over the enemies deceit, and therefore, will be led astray into things such as Islam, Atheism…as it is a whole lot easier to not believe than believe…like Jesus said to the crowd after the rich man left their presence, “You see, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.’ Why? Because the rich man has put all his faith in what he has, in the items that will perish, and his earthly accomplishments…and it’s the same with the Islamists, they think that through works such as those who hijacked the four airplanes on September 11, 2001 would get them to heaven…they believed in the physical, material works instead of living a kind and gracius life through faith that God is able to do as He says He will do.
So, God’s will is that we have faith, and therefore we have His promise of eternal life.
There will always be war because of those who do not believe, and so it is our duty to encourage other to believe and have faith in the Only One who can bring true peace, Jesus Christ!
God bless!
I’ll start reading more of your insane diatribe, when you stop being your own pastor and spiritual guide.
Go back to church. Stop preaching the gospel according to Jeremiah to me. Get some good ol’ fashion preachin’ from someone other than yourself.
Wellington,
You went off topic, but since you mentioned it…
Someone has prayed for me, cause you know what?
I went to church last Sunday and this past Wednesday evening Bible study.
And whoever you are out there … I just want to say, Thank You for praying for me!
:)
I was being foolish because I was talking about something totally different from what you were talking about. You were contrasting a stereotype of pure evil called “the Terrorists” with a stereotype of pure good called “Our Marines.” You weren’t really talking about the actual human beings who are fighting in Iraq.
Aside from all the God talk— which (even though God exists) is irrelevant because God made the people on the other side too and because the people on the other side sincerely believe that God is in fact on THEIR side rather than ours— the only actual difference between the two sides is that one is fighting at home and the other is fighting halfway around the world. Apparently, making war at home is inherently less evil than making war in someone else’s country 10,000 miles away. Which makes little sense.
Timothy,
They had no way to defend themselves, they were helpless, as Saddam Hussein was in control of their government, and he took many and tortured them on a daily basis…they had no defense… as thousands came in the name of “allah” to destroy.
I will say one thing, Timothy … You may let your brothers and sister be killed and tortured, but I’m not going to mine.
Aside from that, God says that anytime a nation is not doing His will tha that nation of people will be destroyed as He order it. Read about Juda, and how those people threw their children in the fire to Molech…He destroyed them all because of that.
The reason Charlie was asking the question is that Palin herself said on tape:
“Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God” when talking about her son going to Iraq.
Because she knows the political reality is that, outside the right wing and her own church, those comments wouldn’t play well. So she started to parse words in the interview with Gibbs. Now the lemming brigade that is swollowing the lies are joining in on the spin fest.
cam,
So you are of the opinion that the first part of her sentence was mere fluff and didn’t change the meaning of what she said at all?
You know, Sarah Palin is right, and I’ll tell you why…
Many for the first time will get to hear and read the Holy Christian Bible without fear of death! They will have an understanding that they have the freedom choose however they want to believe as a result of this war.
God brings freedom to those who are oppressed … that is His will, and that is what we are doing!
So, why in the world would leftists try to equate the two as “the same” taking sides with the enslavers intead of the liberators?
Only one possible expalanation, the devil has them in his grip of deceit!
Observer,
I am not sure what you are trying to get at. As I understand it she said,
“Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God,” she said. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God’s plan.”
To me it looks like she is saying that going to war is part of God’s plan.
Jerimiah,
I believe the freedom Jesus spoke of comes after life. He gave no guarantees for what we would have during lour lives.
Cam,
We must believe in Jesus before we can have eternal life. And for those who do believe, I don’t think would want them to have to live in fear all their lives of being killed because of their belief in God.
Just think of Paraoh and Egypt, and how Paraoh enslaved the people … God did not approve of this, and so He placed His judgment on Egypt for Pharoahs disobedience in keeping the people captive.
The same is true for Iraq and those Middle Eastern countries, God does not approve of their oppressive rule.
cam,
I am telling you that you are trying to paint it as though she said something that she didn’t.
To me, if we look at the entire quote, it seems like she said that she prayed that it was part of God’s plan for victory in Iraq. That doesn’t mean she affirmed that it definitely was his will for us to go there.
Though I guess it depends on how you define what you just said. Or rather, it depends on how you define “God’s plan.” If you are the type of person who believes in predetermination and that God has created the world in such a way as that each significant action occurs for a reason, be it that that action is ultimately succeeds or is doomed to failure, it happens because God wanted it to happen that way. It’s a bit hard to explain, as succinctly defining this world view gets into a great discussion about predetermination and faith and all that. But a common religious view is that, no matter what happens, it happens because God wanted it to happen.
That’s all I think Palin is trying to say. She’s not saying God endorsed the war, and she’s not saying that they are fighting a holy war. To me, if the Iraq war backfires and the next generation of Iraqis all grow up to hate America and bomb it to death, her view would equally say that that would be part of God’s plan.
Observer,
I am familiar with the predetermination view of life. If my memory serves me right, on of these groups that practiced this belief were called Calvinists. Anyway…..
If it is as you say, why would she associate the war in Iraq with God. Based on what you have said, everything that happens is part of God’s plan. If that is the case why bring a misguided war into the discussion? If you want to blame anyone for this fiasco blame Bush and McCain. Leave God out of it.
Jerimiah,
Don’t you think if it was God’s will he would show us a way to get it done without killing thousands of innocents?
Timothy,
No, you don’t understand – the terrorist who sets the bomb knows he is doing wrong. He might rationalize it, but he knows its wrong. Just I, you and the terrorist know that it is wrong for someone to steal, we all know its wrong to set bombs in neighborhoods. All through history are people who say their act of evil is ok because of some other act of evil done by others…and each one of these people has been a fool, and known it, right from the start.
Cam,
No, because His judgment falls on the just and the un-just.
One thing I wanted to point out earlier but didn’t have it ready, is that … what proves the Islamic religion to be false can be found in 1 John 3:15 & 4:20
‘Anyone who hate his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.’
Ok, the Islamists hate their brothers, which encompasses anyone living, no matter what. And that no one, anyone living, cannot believe anything other than Islam.
‘If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, who he has not seen.’ And He has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.’
Christians love all peoples, right? Yes, and this is why we fight for freedom around the world!
It is truly wonderful that we have a God who cares so much about us, and I can tell you that those Iraqis must be happier than coons in a corn-patch right now. Why? Because God cared enough to send somebody to do His work. And now the Iraqis have equal opportunity to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness!
Praise the Lord!
:)
Won’t you join us in this noble effort of supporting the liberation of the oppressed, Cam?
You would make the Lord happy if you did!
Mark,
It is also wrong to start an unjust war. Problem is that those who have pretend not to know and you buy it.
cam,
And who set you up as judge of the world where you can decide if a war is just or not? Your job is not to judge the actions of others, but to look after yourself and seek the will of God in your own life…
Jermimiah,
If you were asking for my support for our union brothers and sisters I might say yes. But its pretty twisted when we can wage an unjust war without compunction for the lives we destroy – that includes the victims on both sides.
And speaking of a noble effort, look at what Obama did after he graduated from college, trying hard to alleviate the suffering of those who lost their jobs in the steel industry. After all he was working for a Catholic ministry. And yet he gets mocked by the likes of Palin and one of the meanest, most nasty individuals in recent history, Guiliani.
Mark,
I did not say it. Pope John Paul II did.
Cam,
So you and Obama will support the union members who’ve lost their jobs to help them back to work … but you won’t support an effort that is helping to free people from the fear of being the next victim of having their throats cut?
Jerimiah,
Whats wrong with helping Americans who need it? Why is it ok to mock those who do?
Anyway, why would I choose to help someone by dropping bombs on them?
Whats wrong with helping Americans who need it?
Nothing, Cam, I help people out people who need it all the time, and don’t charge them a penny. And I don’t make fun of the union workers.
But your’re not seein’ the difference here … One is work, and the other is life or death situation.
If you can support the union, then you should be able to support the freedom from tyrants.
And to boot, as compensation for the damages to infrastructure there, we’ve practically rebuilt the place, homes, businesses, markets, etc, etc, and the people may now live in peace.
Bombs? Oh yeah, there going to be bombs when you have war, you better believe it. Them Japanese bombed so fast and heavy it looked like it was “raining fire”, one fellow said.
So Jerimiah,
100 years ain’t nothing. What you are asking for is endless war. The world is full of tyrants. You just know about the one Bush focused on. In the mean time many of those suffering under tyrrany were ignored. Please, if you want to hug war, please do it up close, be the first to go. If all the chicken hawks on the right would lead the charge we might not need to return those who have already been sent on 3, 4 or 5 tours of duty.
cam,
In regard to your reply to my post: I don’t think she was trying to blame God for the war. And what’s wrong with telling the troops that she hopes God is on their side? It’s an uplifting way of saying she hopes we are, objectively, going in there for the right reasons, and that everything in life happens for a reason (that reason, according to her, being God’s plan).
I really don’t think she was trying to say anything like “God wants you to go to Iraq and kill those terrorists in his name!”
Observer,
I’ve heard of torture but rarely does one inflict it one’s self. If you spin any more you’re going to break something.
What’s wrong with saying God is on our side?
What’s wrong with Osama saying God is on his side?
cam,
Please explain how I am “spinning” this.
Look, my faith isn’t as strong as some of the people on this forum, but I am not going to criticize her on her religion either, and I really don’t think what she said implies what you think it does.
There’s nothing wrong with saying God is on your side in private or in public if you really believe it. Osama can believe what he wants, Palin can believe what she wants, and it’s completely fine with me. I may not agree with either of them, but I respect their personal opinion on the matter.
But the way that I interpret the attacks on this statement from the left, it seems like they are trying to paint her as a religious extremist that thinks we are in the middle of a holy war. Am I wrong? Tell me what you think her statement implies.
Observer,
You said,
“There’s nothing wrong with saying God is on your side in private or in public if you really believe it. ”
There are two main problems with this statement.
One, if God is on your side that implies that God takes sides in wars and is against the other side. This approach says that God punishes/rewards in this world. I guess I never heard it that way. Anyway, what would happen if two or more went to war both believing God was on their side? Who would he choose?
Secondly, you are saying God would support war. That alone is preposterous. But war on false pretenses, that is beyond the pale.
cam,
I should have clarified. I meant in private or in public if that person is espousing that view as a private citizen. If we’re talking about from a government position, yes it may be legal, but is seen as distasteful and manipulative.
But your criticism of what I said has two main problems.
One, you’re implying I believe God is taking sides in wars, and implying that Palin believes God takes sides in wars. I am agnostic, I’m not even going to limit myself to believing that one interpretation of God exists. The fact is we do not know, if God exists, if he takes sides in wars, but that’s not the point. The point is that Palin was simply praying that what they were doing in Iraq was part of a divine plan.
Second, I did not say God would support war. Where did I say that? I said there’s nothing wrong with saying that as a private citizen if you believe it.
cam,
Not the way you did – in your speaking, it is an absolute assertion, JPII opined that he thought the war to be ill-advised.
Observer,
You seem to be trying to separate public comments made by a public official, seemingly saying that we can somehow separate a public person’s private remarks from those that are said puely in public. Do I get that right?
Mark,
On March 16, 2003, in his Angelus Message, Pope John Paul spoke of the need “to work with responsibility for peace” and declared that all options had not been exhausted: “There is still time to negotiate; there is still room for peace, it is never too late to come to an understanding and to continue discussions.” The war began two days later, on March 18, 2003.
Being a man of diplomacy when speaking to world leaders, that is about as clear as it gets. He was saying that this war did not meet the criteria for Jus Ad Bellum (justice before the war).
Its ok thiugh, the cafeteria is open.
cam,
You should look up just war – and, also, learn what “prudential judgment” means.
Mark,
I have and John Paul II gave his answer. 2 days before the war started the answer was no. When the war started, nothing had changed.