38 Comments

• 1. cam  |  September 15th, 2008 at 1:06 am

  As usual, you continue to paint with a broad brush. While one might argue that Claire McCaskill was being nasty, I think it would be a tough sell. If you illegalize abortion, what would the penalty be since you object to her saying it would be jail?

  Regardless, you fail to give even one example of the press being nasty. Yet you are able to come to conclusions without regard to proof.

  Now regarding abortion and your statement that you do not wish to throw people into jail who are involved in abortion but that you wish for it to just go away.

  It looks like you and I, an affirmed Liberal, want the same thing, for abortion to go away.

  Perhaps you really don’t want it to go away. If this were to happen, it would eliminate one of your favorite issues for stirring up the base.

• 2. Mark Noonan  |  September 15th, 2008 at 1:30 am

  cam,

  Nice try, but she said McCain/Palin want to put a woman in jail if she has an abortion after being raped - there is nothing in the public statements, written and verbal, of McCain or Palin which would remotely indicate that this is a desired outcome. It is a lie, and if it spruced itself up a bit it would rise to the level of gutter politics.

  As for me, my preferred method of eventually banning abortion is to change the license to practice medicine to exclude elective abortion - in other words, if a doctor does it, he’ll lose his license to practice medicine entirely - no jail for him or the poor women he victimizes, just an end to the nauseating practice.

• 3. New Conservative  |  September 15th, 2008 at 1:41 am

  Cam,
  It firms up your base too. So lets not act like were stupid. (unless it’s not an act in which case I apologize to you.) If you want to see examples of the Press being nasty go to my blog.
  http://thenewconservatives.blogspot.com/

• 4. winnowhead  |  September 15th, 2008 at 1:42 am

  Palin only makes exceptions for abortion if the life of the mother is at risk. She believes that victions of rape and incest (Juneau Empire) should not be able to receive a legal abortion.

  Now, what is the penalty of an illegal abortion in these cases? If you deign to speak for Palin, please inform us.

• 5. The Arctic Fox  |  September 15th, 2008 at 1:53 am

  If you’re not going to punish someone for having an abortion, what’s the point of being against them having an abortion?

  And if you ARE going to punish them, isn’t prison the way to do it - or are you considering the death sentence?

  Either way, your remark about how anti abortionists “don’t want to punish” people for having abortions is a complete and utter lie. The only way to get what you want is to make having an abortion a punishable offense, and if a mother won’t or can’t pay a fine then jail is all that’s left.

  Your false outrage at a logical conclusion just doesn’t hold water.

  (and in case it’s of interest, I reach 36 weeks in my pregnancy on friday.)

• 6. Jeremiah  |  September 15th, 2008 at 1:54 am

  We surely do need to convert all the energy spent on death into the Culture for Life.

  The core of the Democratic party runs on a truly bloody concept of what life is and means…it is an enormous effort by the likes of Planned Parenthood and varying organizations to try and pant a blurred view of life. They are trying to cover-up the bloodiness that is murder, and painting abortion the “cure-all” to a woman’s ills.
  How scary that college students go in searching for learning, and are subjected this evil ideology, originating only from the Father of all lies himself, Satan.

  People need to grasp the reality that Satan controls this world, and that he sends out his seducing spirits in the form of this ideology of pro-abortion.

  Until students are permitted access to the ‘truth’ and a thorough knowledge of their purpose in life is, then America as we know it is doomed for failure.

  I don’t mean to sound negative, no, not at all, but I feel for this country, and cannot stand to face that children in school are being trained and blinded with the kind of evil that is being imposed upon their receptive minds.

  In order for America to continue in existence, students need to see the world whole, instead of a one-sided Atheistic Secular Humanist worldview, and unlock the channels to freedom, freedom to do the right thing, to do those things that honor, love, and cherish life! Not take it all for grantit, furthering the cause of discord.

  We MUST break the imaginary barrier between Church and State, we MUST! Restoring it to it’s original definition! I am sick and tired of the phony balogna left-wing fallacies!

  Finally, people need to start serving the Lord!
  If they commit themselves to the purpose set out for them to do … Great blessings will come as a result, if they’ll only serve Him and concentrate on their purpose of winning the lost! Vote also according to His Word! This is critical!

  God bless!

• 7. cam  |  September 15th, 2008 at 2:00 am

  Mark,
  Inducing an abortion is not that difficult if I understand it correctly. A doctor is not needed. However, I presume a doctor would be more capable at dealing with complications. Based on your proposal an undergound network would have non liscenced practicioners doing the abortions with close connection to doctors who would be part of the network to deal with the aftermath or any complications. So it would likely be business as usual.

  Now,
  regarding McCaskill’s statement it looks like she inferred this conclusion from two positions Palin has taken. First she has come out against Roe v Wade which legalized abortion. Second, she has said that she would be opposed to abortion even if one of her daughters was raped. If you put these two together, you can certainly see that reasonable people can infer as McCaskill has said. Your assertion that this is below the gutter is absurd. By being vague, Sarah Palin is doing what all politicians do when faceed with difficult questions. If Sarah Palin feels she is being mischaracterized she can step into public view beyond well-orchistrated campaign stops and clarify what she would do in such circumstances.

• 8. winnowhead  |  September 15th, 2008 at 2:03 am

  Jeremiah,

  I don’t mean to impugn on your integrity. But have you read Mother Night? You make me wonder too many times…

• 9. cam  |  September 15th, 2008 at 2:05 am

  New con,
  If one is to write an article without clear support expect to be called on it.

• 10. Jeremiah  |  September 15th, 2008 at 2:28 am

  Winnowhead,

  I take it that you mean, “I resemble the Nazi’s”, right?

  Well, if the holocaust is any indicator, I’d say the Left’s pro-abortion agenda sums it up quite profoundly, as it is very similar to the Nazi system of education!

  With 50,000,000 unborn children already dead, and over 2,000 being murdered on a daily basis and counting we truly have a serious problem comprehending what is the right thing to do, and the problem lies in education of the future generations.

• 11. winnowhead  |  September 15th, 2008 at 2:36 am

  No, I don’t think you resemble the Nazis. But if you added some coughs, umms, and ahhs to that comment, I might think something else….

• 12. winnowhead  |  September 15th, 2008 at 2:37 am

  “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”

• 13. Observer20  |  September 15th, 2008 at 2:44 am

  I think both candidates want us to someday do away with the issue of abortion by making unwanted pregnancies much more difficult.

  I think it’s a lie when they say McCain/Palin want women to be jailed for abortion even in the case of rape/incest. Palin may think it’s wrong, and McCain may too (I’m not sure of his personal view on it), but it’s definitely not part of their platform.

  The key concept to remember is that overturning Roe v. Wade does not make abortion illegal. It simply makes abortion laws a state issue, not a federal issue. And I’m not even sure if overturning Roe v. Wade is part of McCain’s strategy.

• 14. Jeremiah  |  September 15th, 2008 at 2:51 am

  Winnowhead,

  I’m just giving you the facts. Take it or leave it.

  Children are being told lies by their “teachers”.

  And contrary to what the Left thinks, life has great worth, no matter the age. There is no age limit on when life has worth, none whatsoever, because Jesus Christ is the beginning of life, without Him was not one thing made that was made.

  Jesus is the light of the world, and the darkness comprehendeth it not. What is the darkness? thinking such as the fanatical pro-murder left.

  People who reject life’s worth, reject Jesus Christ, and therefore, deem themselves worthless! Because what matters is not the matter, but the SOURCE … of the matter!

  See?

• 15. Jeremiah  |  September 15th, 2008 at 3:03 am

  “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”

  Winnowhead,

  What makes you think I am pretending, and who am I supposed to be “pretending” as?

• 16. What?  |  September 15th, 2008 at 3:05 am

  Mark writes,
  “As for me, my preferred method of eventually banning abortion is to change the license to practice medicine to exclude elective abortion - in other words, if a doctor does it, he’ll lose his license to practice medicine entirely - no jail for him or the poor women he victimizes, just an end to the nauseating practice.”

  Your idea will not stop abortions. It will only make them more dangerous.

  You only create a consequence for the person performing the abortion. This will not dissaude those women who are seeking out abortions from finding someone to perform them. It will only keep them from those who the AMA deem competent to perform them.

  Given the number of people who believe a woman has a right to choose, you will have amateur surgeons springing up ready and willing to perform abortions with god-knows-what.

  Your solution raises an interesting question. If abortion warrants no punishment, should we really make it a crime?

  Adultry is immoral by most standards yet our laws do not recognize it as a crime worthy of prison or a fine. We are dissuaded from it by societal pressure to be monogamous.

  Should we treat abortion the same way? Why not simply use social pressure to dissaude its use? It will not be 100% effective, but neither will your proposed solution. It will have the added benefit of allowing women who choose abortion to get one from a competent medical professional.

• 17. extramedium  |  September 15th, 2008 at 3:12 am

  “Murdering innocent, unborn children is not the right thing to do and no one who actually applies reason to the issue can come to any other conclusion than that abortion is wrong.”

  Look at your own choice of language. If we’re going to accept that abortion is murder, then why would we expect it to go unpunished? Is it murder or not? Is it a life or not? Why would you not seek punishment for a murder?

• 18. js  |  September 15th, 2008 at 7:26 am

  more double talk from the liberal smudge pot

  fact; life begins at conception…

  fact; taking that life through abortion is killing a human being

  fact; killing a defeseless human is murder

  a woman makes a choice to have sex…and if she ends up pregnant…there is no magic cure…we are sending millions of children a death sentence every year…in the USA and around the world…when we accept it as a “moral” choice….when in reality it slaughers a living human being….

  what…you think its ok to give the death sentence to an innocent, unborn infant that doesnt know anything but love, but not to punish the person that takes it life?

  isnt that extreme?

• 19. kmg  |  September 15th, 2008 at 8:08 am

  Mark,

  You want to make abortion illegal. Would you also make it illegal for medical schools to teach their students how to perform abortions?

• 20. js  |  September 15th, 2008 at 8:21 am

  there are times when it is medically necessary to conduct an abortion kmg..

• 21. kmg  |  September 15th, 2008 at 9:20 am

  Well, js, what is an elective abortion? That term has different meanings for different people. If the choice is between the mother’s life and the potential child’s life, is that elective? By your rational, it is still murder. Or do you consider that self-defense?

• 22. js  |  September 15th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

  rationally, a medically necessary procedure would be conducted when the life of the mother is at stake…and saving the life of the baby is not possible…medically necessary procedure would dictate the abortion of an already dead fetus..or of a fetus that would die if no other remedy were available…without killng the mother…who is the life support for the fetus…basic doctrine…medically necessity is a doctrine of law…well established in most of the world…

  its pretty easy to figure it out kmg….do you need me to paste the definitions for you?

• 23. carlos  |  September 15th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

  You know, if liberals really feel that so many people are pro choice, you would think that they wouldn’t fear roe v wade being overturned so much. The last thing liberals want is for something like this to be put before the american people to vote on it.

  For years, liberals have used the courts to pass their insanity onto people without having people vote on it. The judicial branch of government is the only way they can pass their socialist stupidity onto people with a moral compass and call it “law”. Need a new school tax for a failing school? Have a liberal judge declare that everyone pay school tax…completely bypassing the legislative branch. Want gay marriage….well, have some elitist idiot liberal judge to declare the law unconstitutional. This is the scariest problem of our time. Liberal judges have crowned themselves as king and are passing down judgement to the people.

• 24. Kurt  |  September 15th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

  Claire McCaskill is without a doubt the most uneducated member of the US Senate.

• 25. js  |  September 15th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

  they dont debate the fact that abortion kills a human being anymore…they try to flip the arguement away from that fact..they dont want to have to fight the truth…so they use every angle to evade it…

  we dont execute people in our jails with a trial…but we send a hundred thousand defenseless human beings to death every month in abortion clinics without a single right to be heard…without any conscious thought for the most part of rights or justice…just pay $399.95 and they kill your child…

  we pay over a million dollars for a single person on death row…but nothing to save these children…

• 26. Moveoff  |  September 15th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

  The real problem with criminalizing abortion (besides the fat paycheck that it hands to organized crime) is that it’s only the first step towards the true goal of the pro-life movement: Criminalizing birth control.

  Sex education, abstinence education and the sensible use of birth control are the most effective means of eradicating abortion in our lifetime. The pro-life movement is most interested in removing two of those options from our short list.

  Then, while shamed women deliver themselves into the hands of criminals and extortionists, they’ll pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

• 27. FactCheck  |  September 15th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

  how dishonest and nasty the MSM and Democratic party have become.

  Considering the many, many lies McCain and Palin tell–and continue to repeat even after they’re exposed to be lies, leaving an ever-increasing number of folks to conclude that McCain-Palin is one of the most dishonest campaigns in modern American history–and the pretty grotesque smear campaign against Obama (leaving everybody from Muslims to people who perform community service as collateral damage), this statement is cartoonish projection on your part. Par for the course, in other words.

  Will you ever in your lifetime drop the hypocrisy, Mark? Is there any hope for you on that front? Or are you a lost cause? You appear to be a lost cause, but I’d like to think there’s a chance for you.

• 28. kmg  |  September 15th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

  js,

  If you shop around I’m sure you can find one for $350.00.

  But seriously, you claim that abortion is murder. If it is between the mother and the child, who has the right to decide whe will be the murderer and who will be the victim?

• 29. Jeremiah  |  September 16th, 2008 at 1:21 am

  kmg,

  Here is the dictionary’s definition of what ‘victim’ means:

  “Victim: An individual injured or killed.”

  In any case, this could mean any number of ways to become a victim. Some ways we ourselves can become victims because of our own foolish thinking, by being really foolish in being proud of being a victim.

  In the case, however, in the case of abortion, we have an individual, their own little person that is made a victim by the choice of another.

  Was the choice good, or bad? Well, intentionally killing another person is always wrong, and some recompense should be made for the victim, so as to encourage others to understand that THAT choice is unacceptable.

  Another scenario comes into play, consisting of two questions - Does the mother know right from wrong? and likewise, Has she been instructed as to what right and wrong are?

  99.999% of Americans know that killing another person of the same age and stature level is wrong, and will thus, land one in Federal prison.

  Until, a clever bunch of deceivers came up with the notion that life “cannot” be determined at day one, at conception. Someone else then said, “Hey, you know what? We’ve got the children right where we want them, since we’ve got “Separation of Church and State” to block any Culture of Life material from the students, and we’ll teach them that they can determine for their own selves what life is, but we prefer you to abort, because that “helps out our economy” and plus, you can have all the sex you want, if you get pregnant, no problem just go down to the nearest butcher table, and you can go right back at it. We just want people to be “happy” and if they are “happy” with murdering, that’s great, just more dough in Planned “Parenthood’s” pockets.”

  I wonder how long it will be before the left starts calling for the genocide of adult individuals whom they deem of “no value”?

  Now, ask yourself this question … If society as a whole does not want to punish a wrong such as murder, then who is going to serve justice for the sake of these 50,000,000 murdered babies?

  Well, society as a whole may not want to punish murder, but one thing is for sure … God will punish it, and we are seeing His judgment now, such as Hurricane Ike, Hurricane Katrina, the China earthquake…Natural disasters I believe are God’s Will, as man has no control over what the weather and earth does, only God does. The 9/11/01 attacks on the other hand, I do not believe was God’s plan, however, I do believe God used 9/11 as an example of what the difference in right and wrong are, of course, the leftists didn’t see right and wrong, because they thought they we did not have a right to make recompense for the families of the victims slain. With the leaders we had in office, and we can Thank God for George W. Bush by the way, who seen the necessary measures we needed to take to prove right - The Islamists attacked because they thought they had a “right” to murder innocent people, and some people have asked the question, They (Islamists) think God is on their side, and we see God on our side, how do you square that? Well, for one, Allah never had a “Son”, and Muhammad was not a “prophet”, so they were acting upon their own opinion that was converted into an ideology to organize people to do such terrible acts as terrorism.

  Now, how is this similar to the abortion scenario? Well, look at them in the same light … Abortion is an ideology not basis for justification, and Islamic terrorism is an ideology that also has no basis for justification.
  They both murder innocent people, right? Yes!

  Okay, now, we targeted the terrorists for justification because their system of thinking is completely alienated and dead set on destruction, and with such a large number of people being dictated by the leaders of their nation into these insane orders, we clearly have two very different mindsets opposed to each other.

  In America, we are all supposed to be in the same frame of mind, as our country was built on the principle that all are created equal with inalienable rights that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

  If someone deviates from this thinking, and an injustice, or crime, rather, occurs as a result of their deviation from the thinking that we have a right to life, then we should rightly make a correction (punishment for) the crime committed, so that right to life is guaranteed.

  Agree?

• 30. extramedium  |  September 16th, 2008 at 5:06 am

  “They (Islamists) think God is on their side, and we see God on our side, how do you square that? Well, for one, Allah never had a “Son”, and Muhammad was not a “prophet”, so they were acting upon their own opinion that was converted into an ideology to organize people to do such terrible acts as terrorism.”

  So how does that square it? One who doesn’t share your beliefs would likely say the same thing about your God and Jesus as you do about Allah and Muhammad.

• 31. kmg  |  September 16th, 2008 at 7:15 am

  No, Jeremiah, I don’t agree that God damned America with hurricanes. I also don’t agree that abortion providers, Planned Parenthood, and women who have abortions are terrorists.

• 32. js  |  September 16th, 2008 at 7:19 am

  “you claim that abortion is murder”

  no, not me…medical science…get your facts straight….

  “If it is between the mother and the child, who has the right to decide whe will be the murderer and who will be the victim?”

  this is really a hollow, and foolish question kmg…its more of a mockery of society than a legitimate topic…so…until you actually have a grasp on the concept….im not wasting my time with it…

• 33. js  |  September 16th, 2008 at 7:27 am

  30. extramedium

  actually, not quite so extramedium…the concept that Jesus was not the son of God didnt come from mohammad…it came from gnostic’s in the mecca region as mohammad was growing up…he learned about christianity from people who themselves taught errors in scripture that were tainted with other beliefs…

  so…effectivley…if mohammad was a prophet…he would have known the teachings of Jesus…and the truth…through the Holy Spirit…yet…he didnt know christianity…becuase they believed in the trinity concept…that being the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit…but mohammad cited erroneously as the Father, the Son, and Mary….which has been documented as gnostic teachings in fact…

  so no…your arguement is no arguement at all…because a true prophet would never have made a doctrinal error in any way…nor contradicted what Jesus taught…

  you dont know what you are talking about.

• 34. kmg  |  September 16th, 2008 at 8:04 am

  js,

  Post a medical study that says abortion is murder.

• 35. Danish Artist  |  September 16th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

  kmg,

  Uh, wasn’t Scott Peterson CONVICTED of DOUBLE MURDER - his wife AND his unborn son and sentenced to DIE by lethal injection? - AND in California, no less!

  Fart Check,

  Uh, the Muslim and Community Organizer attacks started in the Democrat primary by his opponents. If you cared to indeed check the facts. So you must believe that Ayers was just some guy who lived in his neighborhood and he never truly knew the views of Rev. Wright.

  The many lies of McCain/Palin? Why don’t you present some “FACTS” as your name suggests? Until then, you are expelling hot methane - hence the name - FART check.

• 36. Moveoff  |  September 16th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

  Abortion is murder, just like the Death Penalty. We should all be clear on this. Cognitive dissonance is bad for conservative thought.

• 37. Jeremiah  |  September 16th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

  30. Extramedium,

  Unless an opinion is based upon truth, it cannot be considered fact, so therefore it is wrong.

  God said ‘Thou Shall Not Murder’.

  In addition, Christians have never called for waging war against innocent people, yet liberals, in their hateful thinking, have used the Media and so-called “Journalism” to try and make people think otherwise.

  Christians have always went to war in self-defense, and defense of the innocent.

  War is a terrible thing …. but don’t EVER try to equate collateral damage as our “goal” because it’s just simply not true!

  Warheads do a lot of damage, but they are never used in the way that the terrorists would use them … we use them to target the terrorists. In order to defend innocent people from the terrorist.

  We always target the enemy!
  It’s a really simple concept, if you can’t get it, then you need to do less talking and more time listening and learning.

• 38. Jeremiah  |  September 16th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

  Moveoff,

  The Death Penalty is for punishing murder.

  Abortion is murder, so those performing the act of murder on the little baby should be placed on Death Row. Just as we put serial killers on Death Row.