Monday Morning Open Thread
September 15th, 2008 at 09:21am Mark Noonan
Have at it, boys and girls…
UPDATE: Stories of note:
Obama Tried To Stall GI’s Iraq Withdrawal
Gallup Daily: Race Stabilizes With McCain Up by Two
Records Show McCain more Bipartisan
Palin jolts U.S. Capitol, energizes Republicans…
More Errors For Rep. Rangel; Hires New Account
Entry Filed under: Announcements
58 Comments
1. The Arctic Fox | September 15th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
To all those talking of Victory in Iraq, I present to you a story from the BBC this week entitled “No victory in Iraq, says Petraeus”:
Read the full story here.
2. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Obama Tried To Stall GI’s Iraq Withdrawal … Once again, The One puts his self-interest above the interests of America and our wonderful troops. Wonder why Pelosi and the Democrat-led Congress hasn’t yet fulfilled their promise to bring the troops home? Wonder no more.
Meanwhile, The One loses 18 points (since June) in NY poll. Ruh Ro.
3. Magnum Serpentine | September 15th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Prediction.
John McCain will win this fall with 500 or greater electoral Votes.
Reason:
The Democrats and Obama are so dumb as to select Joe Biden instead of Hillary Clinton.
They knew that McCain would pull some kind of stunt like the one he did. They should had been ready but they did not do a thing to get ready. They were too stupid. They forgot how to think.
Unfortunately this is just a guess, its very clear that the Democrats are very stupid. They should had planned for this. They did not.
I am going on a Vacation, Cu all later.
4. Nevada Pundit | September 15th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Obama backstabs his own good idea
http://www.nevadapundit.wordpress.com/2008/09/12/obama-backstabs-his-own-good-idea/
5. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
MS: That was probably the biggest mistake in the Obama campaign. Have a nice vacation.
And in other news (9/10/08):
PRESIDENT TALABANI: Well, Mr. President, thank you very much for giving me the honor of meeting you again. I think it’s clear that we are in Iraq looking to you as a hero of liberation of Iraq from worst kind of dictatorship. And now we are working with your — with you, Mr. President, for finalizing the strategic framework agreement between United States and Iraq.
And also, we are always getting benefit from your views about how to secure Iraq. I think you know very well that you and we in Iraq achieved very good successes on terrorism. Now I can say all parts of Iraq liberated from terrorist control and activities. It’s true that some groups remain hiding themselves from here or there, but there’s no place, no inch of Iraqi land under the control of terrorist activities. There are some terrorist — still groups working — hiding themself, and thanks to you and sacrifice of your brave army and to Iraqi people, now we can live in peace and security.
Hello, MSM?
6. rich | September 15th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Bye magnum. Have a nice vacation and try to forget about politics for a while. Your blood pressure will go down.
7. CanadianObserver | September 15th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Why no thread on the current failings of the U.S. economy?
Under a Republican President, the country has fallen further and further in debt and although the dismal economy is the number one concern of the American voter, y’all continue to bury your heads in the sand and ignore the fact that your government is complicit in the decline & fall of the American Empire.
What’s up with that?
8. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Barack Obama blamed the crisis on the management of the Bush administration, and it did occur on their watch, but the blame can get spread out to Congress as well. The cheap credit and lack of oversight occurred on the watch of both parties, with Senate Banking Committee chair Chris Dodd (D-CT) taking sweetheart loan deals from one of the major players in the collapse, as well as a few of his Democratic colleagues. It looks as if the lobbyists and big players co-opted all of the oversight mechanisms in Washington, and enough blame exists to share between Democrats and Republicans.
Also, CO, most Americans do not believe we are going to “fall”. We’re strong. We will survive.
9. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
This is crazy!!
Palestinians Man Phone Bank for Obama
For the past seven months, a group of students and young professionals has gathered nightly to phone U.S. voters and urge them to support Barack Obama in the presidential elections.
This would not be at all unusual were it not for the fact that the callers are Palestinians living in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip.
The callers are volunteers who meet in a local Internet café or a room at a youth center equipped with computers they use to make their calls.
The group was organized by Ibrahim Abu Jayyeb, a 23-year-old university student, who told The Media Line he is working on behalf of Obama because he is “the kind of person who when he says ‘I will change America,’ [he] will do what he says.”
He also said: “I believe that Barack Obama will achieve peace in the area, in the Middle East and Palestine, between us, the Palestinian people, and the Jewish people.”
A typical phone call monitored by The Media Line went like this:
Gaza: “Hello, how are you? I hope you are fine.”
U.S.: “How may I help you?”
Gaza: “Give me two minutes. I am here, living in the Gaza Strip, in Palestine. As you know, we live here in a miserable situation and we need peace, necessarily. We are a group making the U.S. people to elect Senator Obama. We think he is a man of peace, so please kindly support us by electing Senator Obama.”
Ibrahim acknowledges that 19 out of every 20 calls are met with an immediate hang-up. But in the past seven months the group has placed 120,000 calls, meaning that between 5,000 and 6,000 Americans have listened to the entreaties.
Sources in the Obama campaign told The Media Line that “no such group has been authorized to solicit on behalf of the campaign.”
10. Nevada Pundit | September 15th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Yeah CO, under a republican president and a democratic congress. Remind me again who it is that holds the purse strings? You want to lay the blame at someone’s feet lay it on all of government and not just the part of it that happens to be convenient for you.
11. Retired Spook | September 15th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
One of the Dems biggest assets in this campaign would normally be the tanking economy. The biggest obstacle they face in using it, though, is that two of the people who profited most from the mortgage meltdown are not only big Obama contributors and fundraisers, but also Obama campaign economic advisors. Talk about a rock and a hard place.
12. CanadianObserver | September 15th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
10. Nevada Pundit | September 15th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
————————————–
If you read my post in its entirety, Nevada Pundit, you will see that I did, in fact, say your “government”.
Your government under the leadership of a Republican President.
13. Bull | September 15th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
i’m pretty sure the economy was doing just fine until the dems took over congress.
they promised us a better economy, it’s worse.
they promised us lower gas prices, they’re higher.
they promised us troops home from iraq, they’re still there.
they promised us less unemployment, there’s more.
if they promised us that the sun would rise in the east, i could almost be certain that it would rise in the west.
14. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
The Economy Is Sound
By R. Emmett Tyrrell, Jr.
WASHINGTON — The campaigning politicians apparently cannot talk accurately about the economy. As I am not campaigning for anything, let me try to describe the economy as it is. The Democrats cannot talk accurately because if they did the average American would realize that the economy under President George W. Bush has not been so bad. Furthermore, the Democrats have not a clue as to how to improve it. All they would do with their promised tax increases and other extensions of the federal bludgeon onto the market would be to slow down an economy that is actually growing.
Did I say growing? Yes I did, but the Republicans cannot talk about the growing economy because if they did it would sound as though they had no compassion for those who are not doing particularly well in this economy. This is a rhetorical trick that the Democrats have imposed on the Republicans. So effective has it been in cowing the Republicans that quite possibly never again will a sitting president be able to boast of a record of economic achievement. To do so would be to ignore the less well off, even though there will always be less well off. For that matter, in every economy no matter how robust, there will be citizens in difficulty.
Nonetheless, someone ought to note the economic health of the present economy. Let me give it a try.
Yes, with gasoline pushing $4 a gallon and fuel oil at historic highs as we face the winter, there is reason to be apprehensive. Moreover, there are widespread declines in home prices. Financial institutions are failing. The equity market is down. And inflation is inching up. Yet that does not warrant describing this economy as being in “Depression,” as Joe Stiglitz, the Clintonista, has said it is. Nor is it even in recession, as the Prophet Obama and his amiable sidekick, Senator Joe Biden, believe it to be.
In point of fact, we are living through the third longest peacetime expansion since 1857, which is about as far back as such calculations have been made. The growth continues. Last quarter’s growth has now been revised upwards from just under 2% to a healthy 3.3%. Milton Friedman calculated that that real GDP grew at 3.25% since World War II, about the same as it has grown from the middle of the 19th century.
At the present the economy’s growth is relatively healthy and its prospects are good. Sure catastrophe could strike, but it will have to be one whale of a catastrophe, say a big taxer in the White House surrounded by people with Saul Alinsky’s vision of economics, which was socialism — assuming that the old radical had any economic vision at all. Alinsky was the community organizer who inspired the Prophet. Incidentally, there is no evidence that Obama has had any managerial experience. Nor has he managed budgets of any size. Senator John McCain managed the largest air squadron in the Navy with a budget of over $1 billion. Governor Sarah Palin managed a small town and the state of Alaska.
So the economy is doing pretty well, though more can be expected and it is understandable that the citizenry does expect more. Since the beginning of the Reagan economic comeback, we have all lived through a period of unparalleled economic stability and vigor. If the Bush Administration was the third longest period of growth since 1857, the two longer periods were experienced in our lifetimes, in the Clinton Administration (120 months) and the Reagan Administration (92 months). It is natural that contemporary Americans expect more from their economy.
To expect it from the Prophet Obama, however, is a leap in faith and an investment in futility.
15. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
The Terrorists Are Losing
By Quin Hillyer
Published 9/11/2008 12:08:33 AM
Seven years. Zero attacks. And almost zero credit.
President George W. Bush deserves better.
Seven years ago today, evil men killed 2,998 innocent people in New York, Virginia, and Pennsylvania. They did so in service of an evil ideology. And they were directed by evil, small-souled creatures protected by a rogue state halfway across the world. The creatures called their murderous organization Al-Qaeda, which means “The Base” — a name appropriate for an organization that serves man’s base instincts, for base motives, to achieve base results.
At the time, there was every reason to believe that Al-Qaeda would strike again on American soil. There was every reason to believe that even if the free world could track down Base leader Osama bin Laden and pulverize him, the cost in the meantime would be the endurance of more terror — mechanical, chemical, biological, maybe even nuclear.
President Bush said no. Not on his watch. Not if he could help it.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13862
16. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Obamabots now want Obama to throw Biden under the bus and replace him with Clinton. LOL!!
Sen. Joe Biden’s a perfectly appropriate vice presidential running-mate for Sen. Barack Obama. He’s got 36 years of Senate experience, is a true intellect, a foreign policy expert, and a genuinely nice guy. But ever since Sen. John McCain added plucky Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to his ticket, the old adage nice guys finish last is beginning to take on new meaning in this year’s presidential contest. It’s time to dump Biden and replace him with Sen. Hillary Clinton. I don’t care how it’s done. Campaign chief David Axelrod can figure that out. And the sooner the better. Because I’m starting to think that if Team-Obama doesn’t do something dramatic fast, it’s gonna lose this election. There’s a worrisome shift in momentum and in the polls. The Palin phenomenon, while truly unfathomable to Democrats, has energized McCain’s campaign and allowed him like Houdini to snatch Obama’s “change” theme right out from under him. It’s time to snatch it back.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-o…_b_126234.html
17. Retired Spook | September 15th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
He’s got 36 years of Senate experience
Touted as a plus with Biden but a negative with McCain, while during their respective Senate tenures, McCain has as record of accomplishment and working across the aisle while Biden has neither.
is a true intellect
Maybe intellectually smart, but also so intellectually dishonest that he got caught plagiarizing an entire speech and lying about various aspects of his resume and education, which forced him to withdraw his run for the Presidency in 1988. I guess the statute of limitations on those lapses of judgment must have run out. If you judge Biden’s intellect by what he says, he makes Dan Quayle look like Albert Einstein.
a foreign policy expert,
An expert at being wrong about 98% of the time.
and a genuinely nice guy.
The biggest load of horse hockey of all. Biden is the snidest, nastiest, most condescending, back-stabbing son-of-a-bitch in the entire Senate.
There’s a worrisome shift in momentum and in the polls.
Boy, talk about putting whipped cream on horse shit.
Now will Obama dump Biden in favor of Hillary. The ideal scenario, IMO, would be to dump Biden, and then have Hillary decline. Now THAT would be funny!
18. libs4us | September 15th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
wow - kim. You do realize that the dow dropped over 500 points today. Nothing says a solid economy like a day like today!
19. hermie | September 15th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Won’t happen…Unless Joe were to develop a ’sudden illness’…but if that would keep him from the VP office, he’d have to give up his Senate seat too.
Otherwise, Obama would look like a complete fool and his much touted superior ‘judgement’ would send his campaign directly into the toilet.
20. FactCheck | September 15th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
John Cole, a lifelong Republican who came to his senses a few years ago and rejects the modern GOP, nails the GOP’s assault on truth:
The wingnut psyche, perfectly distilled. Hell, FactCheck.org even had to write an article talking about how the McCain campaign distorted FactCheck.org. I do hope this wingnut war against facts, truth, reality, etc. ends soon. It’ll be so much better for the nation.
21. Retired Spook | September 15th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Wow, libs4us, the problem is that the executives responsible for much of the financial services sector are big Democrat contributors/advisors. Now that’s what you call a problem. How do you fu*k people over in the wallet and then convince them to vote for you?
and his much touted superior ‘judgement’ would send his campaign directly into the toilet.
hermie, I think it’s pretty obvious that it’s headed there anyway.
22. Fredrick Schwartz | September 15th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
20. FactCheck | September 15th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
As my boss demon would say, “Too right mate too right. ”
What I wonder fact check is when these nincompoops die and when they come around they find themselves seeing me standing there in Hell holding a cigarette and laughing vice their fantasy of harps and cherubs what will thyey use to spin THAT reality?
23. A-10 | September 15th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
CanadianObserver,
Under a Democrat controlled Congress, the country has fallen further and further in debt and although the dismal economy is the number one concern of the American voter, y’all continue to bury your heads in the sand and ignore the fact that Congress is complicit in the decline & fall of the American Empire.
What’s up with that?
24. A-10 | September 15th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Everybody see the latest information to come out about Sen Obama? As “kimberly4victory” mentioned earlier, while visiting Iraq, Sen Obama interfered in the attempt to negotiate a status-of-forces agreement with Iraq. He asked why the Iraqis were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington. Sen Obama also told the Iraqis that it was in the interests of both sides not to have an agreement negotiated by the Bush administration in its “state of weakness and political confusion.”
This is a violation of the Logan Act: ”Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
Sen Obama has some ’splaining to do.
Personally, I think all justice and law abiding Americans should contact their US Attorney and file a criminal complaint against Sen Obama.
25. FactCheck | September 15th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Under a Democrat controlled Congress, the country has fallen further and further in debt
And as we all know, from 2000-2006, George Bush wasn’t racking up the biggest debts in history.
Oh, wait…my mistake–he was.
Please learn a better deflection line. That one you offered up is weak even for a wingnut talking point.
26. libs4us | September 15th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
retired spook - are you serious? Are you seriously saying the cause of the stock crash today is that the companies are run by democrats?
This is exactly the problem with our country. Rather than have a meaningful discussion over how to improve things you would prefer to be the most mindless political hack of all time.. sigh.. get bent..
27. js | September 15th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
there you go again with your rhetoric…congress has to approve all spending…not Bush…
28. js | September 15th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
and its funny too how the DNC can filibuster nominations for judges….but they go ahead and approve all those spending bills with earmarks….
so funny they try to blame bush…
29. CanadianObserver | September 15th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
23. A-10 | September 15th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
————————————–
How does McCain think he can fix the economic mess if he, like Bush, is helpless against that troublesome do-nothing Democratic Congress?
How will he be able to achieve what Bush has not? What gives?
30. Fredrick Schwartz | September 15th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
21. Retired Spook | September 15th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Okay let’s play this game . . .
John Thain CEO Merrill Lynch 28.5 M USD to McCain Victory 2008
Lehman Brothers individual contributions to John McCain 117 M USD.
Wachovia, also in trouble donates 128M USD to McCain.
And as a parting gift this from The Hill;
“It is a far smaller number of CEOs that have donated to both Obama and McCain. The two campaigns share five donors: the previously mentioned Hess and Kelly plus State Farm CEO Edward Rust, Lehman Brothers’ Richard S. Fuld, and Allstate chief Thomas J. Wilson. But even among these shared donors, McCain has raised $64,100 to Obama’s $8,900.”
Lehman’s CEO Richard Fuld also donated 2.3 M USD to McCain. Not to mention 10 M USD to the National Republican Senatorial Committee. Fuld has a history of playing both sides of the political fence having donated the max to both Kerry and Bush in 2004.
But you see the goal of this game is for you is to be the biggest liar. You quote a Freeper thread and leave out the fact that Lehman employees gave money to McCain too as did the CEO of an investment house who should be indicted for fraud for allowing Merrill Lynch to have to run to the skirts of Bank of America to keep from becoming yet another drag on equities.
31. Fredrick Schwartz | September 15th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
28. js | September 15th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Doesn’t the President still have to sign the bills presented to him such that they will become law?
32. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Members of the 110th Congress who have received campaign contributions from Lehman Brothers, 1989-2008
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/brothers-grim-is-lehman-next.html
33. Retired Spook | September 15th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
retired spook - are you serious? Are you seriously saying the cause of the stock crash today is that the companies are run by democrats?
I’m not saying it, libs4us. The article I quoted is saying it, at least indirectly. The crash today was largely due to the bankruptcy of Lehman Bros. Investment Bank, an institution whose officials are financially linked with the Obama campaign in a huge way. Financial Services firms in general as well as large law firms who represent them are overwhelmingly run by Democrats, contribute huge sums of money to Democrats and are largely responsible for the current meltdown of the financial markets. It’s a verifiable fact, and I don’t care whether you believe it or not, or whether it dovetails with your world view or your political ideology. The losses so far are going to seem like lunch money if Obama and his pals get in power.
34. Retired Spook | September 15th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Kim,
Just to expand on your link, here’s an excerpt:
35. Fredrick Schwartz | September 15th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
33. Retired Spook | September 15th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
You are an idiot.
Lehman’s failure was baked in in an emergency trading session yesterday between 2 and 6. Look it up. What weighed on the markets mostly today is that AIG has 1 MMMM USD on their balance sheet and they need 112 MMM in liquidity before COB on Wednesday and their collateral might as well have been printed on toilet paper and the sale of Merrill Lynch to BofA to keep them from failing as well.
Large investment firms generally play both sides of the fence in politics because they like having an open door no matter who is in power.
I’ve done my math and I find just as many contributions for GOP candidates for Congress from the top 50 firms in NY and the top 100 investment houses in the US. I am sure there are right leaning and left leaning companies but as a rule they want to hedge for success not pick a side and risk losing to cometition who has hedged.
36. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Was it a gaffe or was The One finally speaking the truth?? Note how he gets out of answering the question about the ad.
Obama rejected suggestions that his campaign ad was a low blow.
“If we’re going to ask questions about, you know, who has been promulgating negative ads that are completely unrelated to the issues at hand, I think I win that contest pretty handily,” Obama said.
What Obama apparently meant was that McCain, not Obama, has put out more negative ads.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5803765&page=1
37. Rich | September 15th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Did Obama break any laws by undermining our military in Iraq? Maybe the Logan Act for starters? If Dems want to talk about prosecuting Bush, might there be something to be done about Obama breaking U.S. laws?
38. libs4us | September 15th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
retired - stay retired for christ sake..
I would tell you to grow up - but that won’t help you. Perhaps you should just go back to the nursing home.
The simple fact of the matter is that you are trying to reduce a complex international market to blaming democrats for everything. Its pathetic - just like your incontinence
39. Retired Spook | September 15th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
You are an idiot.
I’ve been called worse by better people than you, Fred. FYI, from the MarketWatch home page a few minutes ago:
And from the same page:
Also from the same page (buried down in the middle):
So, yeah, you’re correct. Merrill Lynch and AIG were certainly part of the mix, but it was the Lehman Bros. collapse yesterday that led to the decline right out of the gate this morning. All of the radio and TV news reports today have led with Lehman Bros. Most have also mentioned Merrill Lynch, while not all have mentioned AIG.
40. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
“Rather than have a meaningful discussion”, libsrus resorts to insults and name-calling.
RS: Don’t respond to the dailykos kiddies. Seriously.
41. CanadianObserver | September 15th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
36. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
—————————————
Kim, I only wish the argument over which candidate runs the more negative ads was the biggest problem facing the U.S. today.
Wouldn’t that be swell?
42. Retired Spook | September 15th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
retired - stay retired for christ sake..
I’m not sure how Mark let a post through that takes my Lord and Savior’s name in vain. I suggest you not make it a habit, libs4us.
The simple fact of the matter is that you are trying to reduce a complex international market to blaming democrats for everything. Its pathetic - just like your incontinence
Whoa, sport; I wasn’t blaming the collapse on Democrats. I was just noting that the Dems are going to have a hard time blaming it on Republicans, Bush and McCain in particular, when the Dems are in bed with financial services execs to a significantly greater degree than republicans. You know, the old glass houses thing.
As for my being incontinent, I can’t imagine why someone who has never met me would say such a thing. I have to assume that, like most Dems I know, you were just being nasty and condescending. It adds nothing to your argument — just makes you look like a turd.
43. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
CO: No argument on that from me. I remember your earlier post about how our election cycle is too long. I’d agree with that as well.
I am so looking forward to November 5th.
44. Retired Spook | September 15th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
CO, funny you should bring up negative ads. Here’s the transcript of Obama with Chris Cuomo on GMA this morning: (discussing ad making fun of McCain being out of touch)
OBAMA: Hold on, I didn’t — I didn’t say that. What I said was — I mean, let’s be fair, Chris — what I said was that John McCain is out of touch.
CUOMO: But the ad is a negative ad. You paint him as an old man, say you can’t use a computer, he’s never sent an e-mail, what does that all mean?
OBAMA: What it means is that we’ve got a twenty-first century economy and John McCain does not have a vision for how to move that forward.
CUOMO: So no apologies for that ad?
OBAMA: If we’re going to ask questions about, you know, who has been promulgating negative ads that are completely unrelated to the issues at hand, I think I win that contest pretty handily. (emphasis added)
Hooooo boy! I wonder if Biden gave him that line. Now, in all fairness, he meant to say just exactly the opposite, but, as they say, in politics, perception is reality.
45. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Even in the depths of the Great Depression, FDR assured his fellow Americans, in his first inagural speech, that “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” But on a day that calls for courage, Barack Obama was willing to talk the American economy down for the sake of short-term political gain. What does that say about his qualities as a leader? What does it predict about how he would handle a crisis were he to become president? Is expressing America’s anxiety leadership?
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/09/15/day-demanding-leadership-obama-exploits-americas-anxiety
Who would I rather have as a leader of my country? One who reassures me or one who compares the housing crisis AND the financial situation to the Great Depression? Hmmmm.
46. Wellington | September 15th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
So you like being lied to, (?) to be “reassured” and feel “safe”?
here we go, Ms. Kim…it’s all going to be ok, honest. The economy is in fine shape. Invest your life savings, buy low-sell high.
We’re winning.
Sarah Barracuda probably knows more about energy than anybody else in the United States.
(patting you on your cute little head)…it’s all going to be OK. Trust in McCain/Palin.
See…it’s all better now. Sleep well Ms. Kim.
47. phnx | September 15th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
CO,
As Spook points out, many if not most of the Wall Street investment banks are controlled and run by Democrats. Remember Governor Corzine? Former Director of Goldman/Sachs who bought his Governorship with part of the $400 million bonus money he received upon departure from Goldman.
Hedge Funds and Investment Banks and Bankers heavily support the Dems, including Obama. One of the reasons they support Dems is that they protect the Tax Loophole, which permits Hedge Fund managers and Investment Bankers to pay only 15% tax on Capital Gains, while the rest of us have to pay 35%.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/business/13tax.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&dlbk
It is not surprising that Chelsea Clinton landed a 6 figure job with Avenue Capital Hedge Fund, a major supporter of Dem causes:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/03/news/newsmakers/clinton_fund/index.htm
Note, Lehman owned 20% of Avenue Capital.
Remeber Robert Rubin, former head of the NYSE, who was Sec Treasury under Clinton? He sparked controversy in 2001 when he contacted an acquaintance at the Bush Treasury Department and asked if the department could convince bond-rating agencies not to downgrade the corporate debt of Enron, a debtor of Citigroup. Rubin wanted Enron creditors to lend money to the troubled company for a restructuring of its debt, arguing that a collapse of the energy giant might have serious consequences for financial markets and energy distribution. The Bush Treasury official refused. We all remember what happened to Enron, and that the Bush Justice Department indicted and convicted several Enron Execs. Rubin was not implicated in any wrong doing, but it is instructive who the Enron crooks went to for help.
It is no wonder that Wall Street has contributed more heavily to Obama and the Dems than to McCain and the Republicans.
Go http://www.fec.gov for proof of this.
48. CanadianObserver | September 15th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
49. phnx | September 15th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
———————————-
Holy, shmoly, it’s worst than I thought.
What kind of corrupt system do y’all have down there, anyway?
According to the posts I read here, both the Republican and Democratic parties are crooked and up to their eyeballs in sleaze.
Is it now just a choice between worse & less worse?
49. kimberly4victory | September 15th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
I think we all need a good laugh today:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/economists_warn_anti_bush?utm_source=embedded_video
50. cam | September 15th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Artic Fox,
So Patreus says it will be a long struggle in Iraq. Thank you captain obvious. So it took 5 years to figure that out.
I wonder how long it will take for Bush to figure out that the economy is in for a long struggle, not jsut an adjustment. I’m not sure that being president the next few years is going to be fun. It looks like Bush has left quite a pile of it for his predessesor to deal with.
The pundits here like to compare the Bush presidency to Truman saying he too was unpopular. While all of those comparisons are all jsut conjecture there is one thing we know for sure. Bush does not believe in “The Buck Stops Here”.
51. neocon | September 15th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Consider some facts:
On black Friday 1987, the market lost nearly 25% of it’s value. In 1929, the market lost a little over 30% which sparked the depression. Today, we lost 4%. While there is still plenty to be concerned about, it’s important to keep this in perspective, as consumer confidence could be a tipping point here.
Republicans and Democrats are not to blame here. Greed is to blame, and trading and buying up investment vehicles secured by over inflated real property and mortgaged by no document loans by greedy speculators got us here. Let them fall hard. Greed is an inherent risk in a captilist market and the public should not be there to soften the blow of those who fall. Risk can have it’s rewards but there’s also a downside.
We’ll come out of this, as we always have. And the better for it.
52. neocon | September 15th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
cam,
The mortgage crisis, which is the primary culprit in this struggling economy has nothing to do with Bush, and everything to do with stated doc loans, 0 down financing, ARM’s and 80/20 ARM loans, and those little darlings are the result of the relaxed FHA guidelines as mandated by Congress to make mortgages more accessible and affordable to those of lower income.
We are reaping the rewards of that now.
53. cam | September 15th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
neocon,
Specifically, what law mandated that these practices? The market hit its high somewhere about 2006. The Demcrats have had some level of control over Congress since late 2006, probably after the market already started heading down. When then did the Congressional mandates get passed? Was it pre 1994?
54. neocon | September 15th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Regulations were loosened approx. 1993, it was part Clintons 1992, “It’s the economy stupid” platform. However the greed didn’t really kick in until around 1999. The problem was that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac started buying very risky loans on the secondary market. The more they bought, the more greedy lenders sold it to them. Throughout the early 00’s this appeared to be profitable strategy as many borrowers were performing on those loans. Then came 2007 and inventories were high, values were extremely over inflated and the economy weakened and all of a sudden, borrowers stopped performing. This problem continued and was accelerated when oil prices started to spike.
Also your question about Congress’s “decree” reveals a lack of understanding of this current crisis. Market forces are much more potent than anything Congress can throw at it.
55. A-10 | September 15th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Fredrick Schwartz,
“Okay let’s play this game . . .
John Thain CEO Merrill Lynch 28.5 M USD to McCain Victory 2008
Lehman Brothers individual contributions to John McCain 117 M USD.
Wachovia, also in trouble donates 128M USD to McCain.”
Hmmm. Those figures look a little fishy. You’re trying to tell us that those three groups donated a total of $273 Million to John McCain’s campaign? That’s amazing, since the total of Sen McCain’s campaign contributions are just short of $175 Million. That would seem to be about $100 Million short of what you have claimed these three groups have contributed. Therefore, I am calling BS.
Here’s what http://www.opensecrets.org says about the three groups you mentioned:
Lehman Brothers - $370,000 to the Obama Campaign. $117,500 to the McCain Campaign.
Wachovia - $122,846 to the McCain Campaign.
And Mr. John Thain has donated a total of $4,600 to the McCain Campaign.
So it would appear that you have inflated the amounts by a factor of 1000. Which would be about equal to the amount that Sen Obama has inflated his experience and resume.
56. phnx | September 15th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
“However the greed didn’t really kick in until around 1999. The problem was that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac started buying very risky loans on the secondary market.” Neocon
And who was in control of Fannie Mae from then until now???? Jim Johnson, a Washington democrat insider, and Franklin Raines, another washington Democrat insider. Both left under a cloud of scandal which resulted in an $11 Billion dollar restatment, and hundreds of millions of fines. They both treated Fannie Mae like their own piggy bank, using funds to buy th loyalty of their Dem patrons in the House and Senate.
OBTW: Did I mention that Obama selected one of these soul brothers to his VP search team?
Change we can believe in??? (That’s not even proper english, but I guess that’s what you get with a public school education these days.)
57. hermie | September 16th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Simple comparison:
McCain: Warned about Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae becoming disasters.
Obama: Chooses the guys who were Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae insiders to be his economic advisors.
58. kimberly4victory | September 16th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Wellington: The point I was trying to make is one candidate was spreading hope and the other, who’s motto is hope, was spreading doom. The economy is driven by consumer confidence - without confidence, no one spends any money.
Obama made it seem like it was the coming of a second Great Depression. People might have heard his gloom and doom speech and ran to the bank to withdraw all of their money. They probably became depressed and scared.
A friend of mine owns a salon. She called a few days ago, worried about how slow business was. I told her to advertise specials but she told me, I don’t have it in the budget. So, I told her to ask her teenaged daughter and her friends to stand outside with signs that read “Free Haircut with Color”, do some creative no-cost marketing. I boosted her confidence. She did those things and got over 20 new customers in one day. She’s going to do the same thing every day.
There’s no need to panic and freak out. It’s not the Great Depression - not even close. We’ve been through worse, like Neocon mentioned. We will get through this. Times are tough, sure, but we can handle it.