Jonah Goldberg Experiences the Tolerant Left
October 11th, 2008 at 01:31pm Mark Noonan
Posted ’cause all of us are feeling this sort of sentiment from the left these days:
Some nice notes about last night’s Larry King Live. But, as ever, the hate mail is so much more dramatic (bowdlerizing asterisks mine):
Subject: u r a f****n JEW hick
Saw you on Larry King calling the director of ACORN a liar! you f****n hick!!, who the HELL are you? don’t be mad because you and the other “NEOCONS” are gonna LOSE this election, stick a sock in it! u bastard!! you might as well face it
A CHANGE IS COMING!! and his name is BARACK OBAMA!!
U BETTER NOT GET IT TWISTED!I kind of like being called a “Jew hick.” I’d love to hear the horah played on banjos, wahsboards and spoons!
I’ve noted that as the election nears and the left asserts that it is more and more confident of victory, we get nastier and nastier comments from the left - you’d figure that the prospect of overwhelming victory would mellow them out and make them more tolerant of us…but, nothing doing; the hatred grows apace. Do keep in mind, lefties, that if you do win its not like you’re going to be able to set up a Dictatorship of the Proletariat…we do retain powers in this land and we’re not just going to roll over and play dead…so, if you want a honeymoon period, you’d better start behaving. Of course, more important in all this is the necessity of adhering to my Political Rule #1: Look at what people do, not what they say.
The hatred being spewed from the left and Obama’s last-minute attempts to stuff the ballot box and deploy legions of attorneys to battle ground States indicates that not all is well in lefty land - that, just perhaps, there is a growing realization three weeks out from Obama’s coronation that he’s yet to seal the deal and, indeed, there is still plenty of time and chances for McCain to take this thing away from The One. America has been and remains a center-right political entity and even if there is a choice for Obama it will be a reflection of a distaste for the GOP rather than a rejection of individual liberty and a hankering for Euro-trash socialism. Obama and his minions will, of course, view an Obama victory as carte blanche to advance a hard left agenda and that will be their undoing - but the “nuts and bolts” political operatives of the Democratic party know better, and are pulling out all the stops to try and drag Obama’s leftist carcass over the finish line.
I do believe that it will fail, in the end - that on January 20th, much to the dismay of the left, John McCain will be sworn in as President of the United States. Could I be wrong? Of course. Am I predicting it as a certainty? Of course not - only a fool would make such a bald-faced prediction at this point…but I do believe that when push comes to shove, the basic good will and common sense of the American majority will come out on top, and John McCain will win.
Entry Filed under: Campaign 2008, Corruption, Democrats, Kook Left, Republicans
35 Comments
1. TalkingPoint | October 11th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Deleted - off topic.
2. js | October 11th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
ill bet barney franks wrote that….
3. Casper | October 11th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Mark,
I’m glad to see that you are against someone being called names, or being threatened because of a political position they take. That kind of hate shouldn’t be tolerated by people on either side.
4. BARRASSO | October 11th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Of all the stupid fantasies that wingnuts live their lives by this may be the stupidest, the far left in America is more violent and intolerant than the far right. There continues to be no proof of this, but then if there were facts behind it, it wouldn’t be on this blog. The history of America is filled with near constant violent extremism from the right, interjected with occasional bouts from the left, keep living your comforting fantasy.
5. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
The spiteful left is just now reaping what they have sowed over the last 8 years and they don’t like it very much. Well, too f*^king bad.
What goes around comes around and I can tell you, there are a lot of angry conservatives that have had up to their eyeballs with the Moveon.org and DailyKOS crowd, and we’re coming at them with a vengence.
Hang on, it’s not going to be pretty.
6. Ricorun | October 11th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Casper to Mark: I’m glad to see that you are against someone being called names, or being threatened because of a political position they take. That kind of hate shouldn’t be tolerated by people on either side.
It certainly shouldn’t. Unfortunately, at least on the surface, Mark’s concern does seem a little one-sided. But maybe he just missed the personal threat against you. Or maybe he took care of it privately and neocon won’t show up here anymore. At any rate, I thought it was way over the top. And that sort of nonsense should not be condoned — on either side.
7. Ricorun | October 11th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Apparently I spoke too soon.
8. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
People that excuse and overlook the actions of people like Ayers, of which Casper and Neologizer did yesterday, need to be called out for the cowards they are, otherwise our society will begin to breakdown. I find it hard to believe that that needs to be explained.
Ayers attempted to kill people in the name of his delusional societal revolution and to this day, brags about it, and enjoys a position of influence, and everyone looks the other way. That is just unacceptable. Period.
The man should be shunned and/or in prison. Yet Casper and his ilk, cast aspersions on people like me that point that out.
Unbelievable. We need more people in this society who know the difference between right and wrong and have the courage to stand up for it.
9. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I can now add Rico to this list. No surprise though.
To Rico it’s all political gamesmanship, irrespective of the fact that Ayers attempted to kill the children of an adversary.
The left’s moral compass is irreparably damaged.
10. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Or maybe he took care of it privately and neocon won’t show up here anymore. - Rico
And even more unbelievable.
While Ayers is handed a podium of which to spew his venom and brag of his heinous crimes, those on the left are hoping people like me, who find that intolerable, lose our freedom of speech.
You must be one proud man Rico. And I use the word “man” loosely.
11. js | October 11th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
gee rico…i guess you should have thought that one out before you bumped your behind…
12. Casper | October 11th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
neocon,
Exactly what aspersions did I cast on you? For that matter, where did I condone anything Ayers has done?
Rico,
Now you did it. You are on neocon’s list. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
13. Ricorun | October 11th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Many months ago (actually, I think it’s quite a bit more than a year now) a poster here personally threatened Mark Noonan. I criticized that guy the same way I criticize you here. For that matter, I’d criticize someone who made similar threats against you.
The guy that threatened Noonan was banned for his threat, as well he should have been. Personal threats are not a form of free speech. They should not be tolerated. I don’t care how much of a paper tiger you are, that’s over the top. And there should be nothing partisan about it.
14. SEW | October 11th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
“Exactly what aspersions did I cast on you? For that matter, where did I condone anything Ayers has done?”
You may not condone what he has done, but your teaching philosophy is the same as Ayers. Dangerous for young minds. You are a puppet for Ayers.
15. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Casper and Rico,
How about if you two direct your anger at the appropriate people? Like Ayers?
I will admit that I went over the top with Casper yesterday, but I become incensed at people like Ayers, especially after hearing tapes of him speaking about his crimes in a boastful manner, and this is a “man” who attempted to KILL the families of adversaries. Yet because he is sympathetic to the lefts cause, you, and they, overlook this vile human being and that is completely unacceptable in my book and political persuasion has no bearing on those feelings.
Ayers and McVeigh are the same person and Ayers belongs where McVeigh is, unfortunately people on the left safeguard his right to freedom and life.
Our society currently has activist judges letting child molesters and rapists out on technicalities, or imposing very light sentences because of their delusional political feelings. Again this is unacceptable and unless and until, people like Ayers are called out for their moral failings and judges are held accountable to protect innocent people, our culture will continue to melt down.
There is a right and a wrong and politics should have no play in that whatsoever.
16. Casper | October 11th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
neocon,
We can agree that what Ayers did was despicable. The problem I have, is trying to link his crimes to Obama, who was 8 at the time they happened. You can find someone evil in anyone’s past if you try hard enough. As you know, I lived in Montana years ago. During that time, I worked at a popular home center. This was around the same time the Unibomber was living in a cabin about twenty miles away. There is a chance that I might have sold him materials he used in one of his bombs. I don’t know. There were a couple of years after he was arrested that half expected a knock on the door from the FBI, because they had found my fingerprints on something in his cabin. Does that mean I’m linked to the Unibomber and what he did? I don’t think so, but we all have these connections in the past.
17. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Casper,
Do you find it acceptable that Obama launched his political career from the living room of William Ayers? Keep in mind, Obama studied Malcolm X and Saul Alinsky, so I find it improbable that he did not know who Ayers was at the time.
In addition, Obama served on the Annenberg board and gave speeches along side of Ayers throught the early 00’s, and you know full well that Obama knew Ayers background. Only when this surfaced, did Obama back peddle and first claim that Ayers “was just a guy in the neighborhood” and this just recently claimed that he “thought Ayers had repented”. Repented from what?
Obama chose to associate himself with someone so despicable and then when called out on it, he lied. Just like with Rev. Wright and this speaks to Obamas judgement and honesty, both of which are questionable.
That’s the issue.
18. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Casper,
Secondly, your Unabomber analogy is very poor. Did you spend time any in the Unabombers cabin? Did you serve on committees or boards with him? Did you give speeches or lectures along side of him?
You just can’t excuse away the poor judgement of your messiah on this one.
19. Ricorun | October 11th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
neocon: Yet because he [Ayers] is sympathetic to the lefts cause, you [presumably you're including me in that], and they, overlook this vile human being and that is completely unacceptable in my book and political persuasion has no bearing on those feelings.
You are at best making assumptions, and at worst ignoring any shades between black and white — and worse still, requiring at least some degree of clairvoyance in distinguishing between your black-and-white options. On one level I think you outlined the dilemma pretty well when you said (I’m paraphrasing) Ayers should be in jail but instead he’s a respected, even distinguished person within Chicago civic life with considerable influence, particularly with respect to educational issues. I think we can all agree that Obama didn’t create that dilemma — it was in place before Obama moved to Chicago. So the only question is whether he dealt with it adequately and/or appropriately. In that respect, the relevant questions are what he knew about Ayers’ past, when did he know it, and how relevant that knowledge was in shaping his subsequent interactions.
You seem to think that as soon as Obama knew of Ayers’ past he should have immediately dissociated himself from him regardless of whether or not he thought Ayers had been properly punished and/or rehabilitated himself, and regardless of what anyone else of import in the community thought. Am I wrong? If not, how realistic is your position? If so, in what way have I mischaracterized your position?
20. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
You seem to think that as soon as Obama knew of Ayers’ past he should have immediately dissociated himself from him….
100% correct. Most sensible people would have. Had Ayers repented and apologized to the people he harmed, he may have then been considered worthy of his position. However, he has not only not apologized or repented, he has actually said that he did not do enough.
Obama, or any person of integrity, should shun this vile human being and treat him like the outcast he is.
And that is very realistic. If Timothy McVeigh were alive, would you associate with him?
21. Ricorun | October 11th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
neocon: 100% correct. Most sensible people would have. Had Ayers repented and apologized to the people he harmed, he may have then been considered worthy of his position. However, he has not only not apologized or repented, he has actually said that he did not do enough.
Reasonable enough. So my first question is… when did Ayers make it clear he was unrepentant and did not do enough?
22. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Rico,
Please do a little research and quit asking me stupid questions. You should be exploring this yourself, or don’t you want to know the truth about your messiah. The following is a quote and a must read about Ayers:
Venezuelans have shown the world that with full participation, full inclusion, and popular empowerment, the failing of capitalist schooling can be resisted and overcome. … [W]e, too, must build a project of radical imagination and fundamental change. Venezuela is poised to offer the world a new model of education—a humanizing and revolutionary model whose twin missions are enlightenment and liberation.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/10/021748.php
And to answer your question:
”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.”
New York Times
Saturday, October 11, 2008
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63
On Sept. 11, 2001, the NYT published an article on Ayers wherein he stated that they didn’t do enough. He has since tried to back peddle from that statement as most cowards do.
23. Ricorun | October 11th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
neocon: Rico, Please do a little research and quit asking me stupid questions. You should be exploring this yourself, or don’t you want to know the truth about your messiah.
Actually, I have done quite a bit of research on both candidates — or “messiahs” as you term them — on many issues. I will admit that I’m not certain at this point who I will vote for, though I am certain I will vote. I also suspect that I’m not as prone to ad hominem arguments as you. So go ahead and try to convince me, absent such arguments, that anything in the CAC suggests “radicalism” in the sense that it represents some sort of far left principles (as your allusion to Venezuela suggests) as opposed to “radicalism” in the sense that it represents a departure from central control in favor of smaller, community-based control (which would be entirely opposite of what your allusion to Venezuela would suggest - well, at least it certainly would in a black-and-white world).
I mean really, just on the basis of your first knee-jerk reaction, which would you prefer as educational principles? Alternatively, if knee-jerk reactions don’t apply, what does? Be careful of your answer.
You have accused me of political gamesmanship. On the contrary, I have tried hard to remain faithful to the facts, and to logic, and to avoid the kind of ad-hominem attacks to which you seem so inclined — rather insipidly, I might add. What I have done is to try to remind you (and others) of what you’re doing when you attempt such attacks. I mean come on, if you can’t win your argument on the BlogsforVictory website without resorting to pathetic epithets (not to mention personal threats), what chance do you have? I mean really? Think about that.
24. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
What are you talking about Rico? Ad hominen attacks because I asked you to stop asking stupid questions? And then you launch into this intellectual diatribe about being high minded and seeing the grays in a black and white world? You really need to get over yourself.
You still can’t admit that Obama’s association with Ayers is just simply wrong and I suspect you never will.
Education, at the elementary levels, should be nothing more than the three r’s (to use a simple analogy). Ayers promotes a political agenda, and irrespective of what that agenda is, it doesn’t belong.
People like you that parse the boundaries of what is acceptable and what isn’t are the reason for the decline in the quality of our society.
Thanks.
25. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Be careful of your answer. - Rico
You really are a piece of work aren’t you.
26. neocon | October 11th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
So let’s recap;
Rico has failed to acknowledge that Obama’s association with Ayers is wrong after clear examples of Obama’s untruthfulness and Ayers unapologetic behaviour.
Rico has failed to answer the question of what is fair, after asserting that that is what people want, outside of the lily white neighborhoods that he has resided in.
And Rico is now claiming that my allusion to Venezuela, when in fact it was Ayers allusion, bears no resemblence to Ayers CAC mission, even the aforementioned Ayers held the Venzuela model up as an example.
How do you debate such brain damage?
27. Jeremiah | October 11th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
How do you debate such brain damage?
You call them what they are, PostModernist Quacks!
You see, that’s what PosModernist liberals do…they first create in their vain imaginations that there is “no” truth to anything…so what they do is re-structure the debate, and this is where it gets really bad in school, because they re-structure history. They justify sin in order to accomplish their desired goals. Just like now, they are trying to justify Ayers in order to get Obama elected. You can’t justify one sin for another sin, whereas, Obama has committed a heinous sin of allowing living and lovable little babies outside the womb to lie on a cold hard floor to die–that being their desired goal.
PostModernism all it is is just another buzz word….the true word or meaning, rather for the phrase is Post-Structuralism, where we find more and more socialist minded teachers using Salin’s tactics, along with terrorist apologists and the propoganda of 1930s Germany as their gold-medal standard with the reversal of the history behind our great country and eventual upheaval, or implosion if you will of Western Culture and society.
Very Dangerous, make no mistake about it, Current day liberalism. Very Dangerous! And that’s why we need to get it out!
28. Ricorun | October 12th, 2008 at 12:31 am
neocon: Rico has failed to acknowledge that Obama’s association with Ayers is wrong after clear examples of Obama’s untruthfulness and Ayers unapologetic behaviour.
Actually, what I fail to acknowledge is any answer on your part to my first question which was: when did Ayers make it clear he was unrepentant and did not do enough?
neocon called it a “stupid question”, but I think it’s highly central to the question of what Obama knew and when did he know it. And that’s not a stupid issue.
Rico has failed to answer the question of what is fair, after asserting that that is what people want, outside of the lily white neighborhoods that he has resided in.
Perhaps I am missing something, but when was the question of fairness posed? I don’t see any, nor any context. Consequently, I think it’s reasonable to ask… WTF are you talking about??
And Rico is now claiming that my allusion to Venezuela, when in fact it was Ayers allusion, bears no resemblence to Ayers CAC mission, even the aforementioned Ayers held the Venzuela model up as an example.
Actually, your logic is seriously fractured. I stand by my assertion that Ayers made no equivalence to the situation in Venezuela and CAC, or even made any allusion between the two. Consequently, I renew my assertion that your allusion to Venezuela, vis-a-vis CAC, is opposed to “radicalism” in the sense that it represents a departure from central control in favor of smaller, community-based control, which would be entirely opposite of what your allusion to Venezuela would suggest - assuming your black-and-white conception of the world.
I will admit to a history in academia. I do not, however, consider it a negative thing. To all the young folks out there, I strongly advocate advanced education. I also strongly advocate keeping an open mind. Don’t lose sight of your faith. Question everything. Absorb everything. Don’t assume your professor — or your preacher — knows everything. Doing so is constrictive both to your education and to your faith. I am a strong advocate of both.
29. Danish Artist | October 12th, 2008 at 6:12 am
Wow, Rico look at this - a simple search on the internet “I feel we did not do enough” revealed this in a NEXUS LEXUS transcript:
Ayers spoke at the University of North Dakota, and students from the Young Americans for Freedom protested that the school was allowing an admitted terrorist to address the students. During Ayers’ speech, the students questioned him on his controversial past.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: I heard that you blew up the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol. Why did you do that? And also that you and your friends, they died while you guys were trying to make a bomb. And you ran away. Why didn’t you take your punishment and stand up for your decisions?
AYERS: People say, “Did you regret anything you did against the government in those days?” My answer is, “No, I do not.” The reason I don’t is because the United States government was killing 2,000 a week on a lie. On a lie.
————–
NY TIMES 2001 shortly after 9/11:
“I don’t regret setting bombs….I feel we did not do enough.”
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63
—————
Many other results show up as well. The information is out there IF YOU ARE WILLING TO LOOK FOR IT.
30. Danish Artist | October 12th, 2008 at 6:19 am
Wow, Rico a simple search on the internet: “I feel we did not do enough” has revealed this little nugget from the NY Times:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63
—————-
Lexus Nexus transcript:
Ayers spoke at the University of North Dakota, and students from the Young Americans for Freedom protested that the school was allowing an admitted terrorist to address the students. During Ayers’ speech, the students questioned him on his controversial past.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: I heard that you blew up the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol. Why did you do that? And also that you and your friends, they died while you guys were trying to make a bomb. And you ran away. Why didn’t you take your punishment and stand up for your decisions?
AYERS: People say, “Did you regret anything you did against the government in those days?” My answer is, “No, I do not.” The reason I don’t is because the United States government was killing 2,000 a week on a lie. On a lie.
————
A simple search revealed these and many more example of his non-repentant attitude toward this country. The information is out there, IF YOU ARE WILLING TO LOOK AND DEAL WITH THE REALITY.
31. Danish Artist | October 12th, 2008 at 6:24 am
Wow, Rico a simple search on the internet: “I feel we did not do enough” has revealed this little nugget from the NY Times:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63
—————-
Lexus Nexus transcript:
Ayers spoke at the University of North Dakota, and students from the Young Americans for Freedom protested that the school was allowing an admitted terrorist to address the students. During Ayers’ speech, the students questioned him on his controversial past.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: I heard that you blew up the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol. Why did you do that? And also that you and your friends, they died while you guys were trying to make a bomb. And you ran away. Why didn’t you take your punishment and stand up for your decisions?
AYERS: People say, “Did you regret anything you did against the government in those days?” My answer is, “No, I do not.” The reason I don’t is because the United States government was killing 2,000 a week on a lie. On a lie.
————
A simple search revealed these and many more example of his non-repentant attitude toward this country. The information is out there, IF YOU ARE WILLING TO LOOK.
32. Danish Artist | October 12th, 2008 at 6:31 am
Wow, Rico a simple search on the internet: “I feel we did not do enough” has revealed this little nugget from the NY Times:
”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.” - shortly after 9/11.
—————-
Lexus Nexus transcript:
Ayers spoke at the University of North Dakota, and students from the Young Americans for Freedom protested that the school was allowing an admitted terrorist to address the students. During Ayers’ speech, the students questioned him on his controversial past.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE STUDENT: I heard that you blew up the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol. Why did you do that? And also that you and your friends, they died while you guys were trying to make a bomb. And you ran away. Why didn’t you take your punishment and stand up for your decisions?
AYERS: People say, “Did you regret anything you did against the government in those days?” My answer is, “No, I do not.” The reason I don’t is because the United States government was killing 2,000 a week on a lie. On a lie.
————
NOTE: LINKS posted prevents reply from being posted to blog.
A simple search revealed these and many more example of his non-repentant attitude toward this country. The information is out there, IF YOU ARE WILLING TO LOOK.
33. js | October 12th, 2008 at 8:44 am
the real thing is…how the ayers history is wrapped with the CPUSA…the commie party of the USA…and such a “coincidence” that they found a young mixed race person like obama…who had effectively been molded by…associates of the CPUSA…and…such commie organization…have links to both ayers and the mentors of a man whose self described passion came from the books of self proclaimed marxist socialites…in obama, barak h….but the impact of it all is even more astounding…when we find out that obama may not even truely be an american…because he committed a criminal act…and presented a forged birth certificate…as proof of citizenship…
knowing that having committed a felony…is an impeachable offense…as he runs for the POTUS…one would consider the gall of it all…what if they succeded in placing obama into the oval office…and everything i said here were true…to our shame…to the end of our fathers dreams…up rises the dreams of communists and socialists…and liars…
the defeat of america…from within
34. Ricorun | October 12th, 2008 at 10:13 am
DA, what’s your point? If you’re trying to question what Obama knew and when, your excerpt, dated in late 2001, doesn’t help the “Obama should have known Ayers was an unrepentant terrorist” argument.
35. Danish Artist | October 12th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Rico, do try to keep up.
YOU asked the question: “when did Ayers make it clear he was unrepentant and did not do enough?”
I answered it with a simple search over the internet.
Having trouble comprehending the English language?
What I question is Obama’s failure to come clean on an obvious professional relationship with Ayers that OBAMA himself continues to lie about.
“Just some guy in my neighborhood”, which was one of Obama’s first answers, is a far cry from the professional relationship he had with Ayers while serving on the executive board of the Annennburg foundation.
Why is Obama afraid of his professional relationship with Ayers and continuously lies about it?
WHY THE LIES AND CONTINUED DOWNPLAYING that changes almost daily???
The argument leads to poor judgement on Obama’s part to continue to lie and downplay it. Poor judgement to continue the relationship once he found out who Ayers was (if we can believe that after so many lies). Obama was introduced to Chicago politics at Ayers home, at that point it is doubtful that Obama could remain ignorant of his past. He is trying to use the same argument he used with Wright - “I never knew…… during my long association with him, I never knew his views.”
OK Rico do try to keep up, if not continue to be the mindless Obamaton that you care to be.