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	<title>Comments on: Obama Waterboarding/Gitmo Speech</title>
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	<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2009/05/21/obama-waterboardinggitmo-speech/</link>
	<description>Where Defeat Is Not An Option</description>
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		<title>By: Sergei Andropov</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2009/05/21/obama-waterboardinggitmo-speech/comment-page-3/#comment-175635</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergei Andropov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 10:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/?p=4800#comment-175635</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;the stuff your professors have told you with so much confidence in their voice.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m growing a little tired of explaining this, Mark.  I was a Persian major.  The things that my professors told me were how to form the present tense and what the etymology of چرا is.  There were no lectures on politics, or economics, or even terrorism.  What I know about those fields, I learned myself.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I know whereof I speak on the origins of our terrorist trouble.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

One of the problems with personal experience is that we tend to attach to much importance to it, and to assume that it is much more universally applicable than it is.  The Beirut barracks bombing took place in 1983, close to two decades before 9/11.  It was carried out by Hezbollah, a group with very little resemblance to al-Qaeda.  Yes, both events did involve Muslims making things go boom, but that is where the similarities end.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The foremost thing, I think, that you should learn about terrorism is the fact that the terrorist leaders - for all their talk of God and martyrdom - never volunteer themselves for the suicide mission.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I am fully aware of that.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Iran and Somalia are two sides of the same safe haven coin.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The problem with Iran being a safe haven for al-Qaeda is that they are Shiah.  The lack of understanding of the Shiah-Sunni divide among Americans is quite frankly nothing short of dangerous.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnfvAEamRbw&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Richard Engel&lt;/a&gt; has a fairly good short introduction to the issue; it basically repeats the Sunni (i.e. whitewashed) view.  For the Shiah (i.e. correct) version, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUJOk813XSM&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; video appears to be excellent, though bear in mind that I have only watched the first 15 minutes of it.

&lt;blockquote&gt;No deals about Israel, no pledges against waterboarding, no American withdrawal from this or that place will win the war - only completely changing the socio-political dynamic of the Arab/Moslem world will do. President Bush understood this. President Obama doesn’t. Neither do you - but I think you’ll figure it out faster than Obama does.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I find it interesting how you know what I understand better than I myself do.  I had been under the impression that I did understand that, and quite well, seeing as I have made an intensive study of the Apostasy.  Likewise, I rather suspect that President Obama has a far, far better understanding of the situation than you and Rachel Maddow seem to think he has, or for that matter have yourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>the stuff your professors have told you with so much confidence in their voice.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m growing a little tired of explaining this, Mark.  I was a Persian major.  The things that my professors told me were how to form the present tense and what the etymology of چرا is.  There were no lectures on politics, or economics, or even terrorism.  What I know about those fields, I learned myself.</p>
<blockquote><p>I know whereof I speak on the origins of our terrorist trouble.</p></blockquote>
<p>One of the problems with personal experience is that we tend to attach to much importance to it, and to assume that it is much more universally applicable than it is.  The Beirut barracks bombing took place in 1983, close to two decades before 9/11.  It was carried out by Hezbollah, a group with very little resemblance to al-Qaeda.  Yes, both events did involve Muslims making things go boom, but that is where the similarities end.</p>
<blockquote><p>The foremost thing, I think, that you should learn about terrorism is the fact that the terrorist leaders &#8211; for all their talk of God and martyrdom &#8211; never volunteer themselves for the suicide mission.</p></blockquote>
<p>I am fully aware of that.</p>
<blockquote><p>Iran and Somalia are two sides of the same safe haven coin.</p></blockquote>
<p>The problem with Iran being a safe haven for al-Qaeda is that they are Shiah.  The lack of understanding of the Shiah-Sunni divide among Americans is quite frankly nothing short of dangerous.  <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnfvAEamRbw" rel="nofollow">Richard Engel</a> has a fairly good short introduction to the issue; it basically repeats the Sunni (i.e. whitewashed) view.  For the Shiah (i.e. correct) version, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUJOk813XSM" rel="nofollow">this</a> video appears to be excellent, though bear in mind that I have only watched the first 15 minutes of it.</p>
<blockquote><p>No deals about Israel, no pledges against waterboarding, no American withdrawal from this or that place will win the war &#8211; only completely changing the socio-political dynamic of the Arab/Moslem world will do. President Bush understood this. President Obama doesn’t. Neither do you &#8211; but I think you’ll figure it out faster than Obama does.</p></blockquote>
<p>I find it interesting how you know what I understand better than I myself do.  I had been under the impression that I did understand that, and quite well, seeing as I have made an intensive study of the Apostasy.  Likewise, I rather suspect that President Obama has a far, far better understanding of the situation than you and Rachel Maddow seem to think he has, or for that matter have yourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: casper</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2009/05/21/obama-waterboardinggitmo-speech/comment-page-3/#comment-175435</link>
		<dc:creator>casper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 02:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/?p=4800#comment-175435</guid>
		<description>cluster,
Hardly a strawman.  And I would say he voted against Obama over it rather than for McCain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cluster,<br />
Hardly a strawman.  And I would say he voted against Obama over it rather than for McCain.</p>
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		<title>By: cluster</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2009/05/21/obama-waterboardinggitmo-speech/comment-page-3/#comment-175434</link>
		<dc:creator>cluster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 02:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/?p=4800#comment-175434</guid>
		<description>Casper,

He must have voted for Palin, not McCain. McCain is weak on that issue. And that being said, has Palin ever imposed her life position on the State of Alaska?

Has she ever had one speech on it?

No. 

So this is a HUGE STRAWMAN of yours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Casper,</p>
<p>He must have voted for Palin, not McCain. McCain is weak on that issue. And that being said, has Palin ever imposed her life position on the State of Alaska?</p>
<p>Has she ever had one speech on it?</p>
<p>No. </p>
<p>So this is a HUGE STRAWMAN of yours.</p>
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		<title>By: casper</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2009/05/21/obama-waterboardinggitmo-speech/comment-page-3/#comment-175431</link>
		<dc:creator>casper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 01:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/?p=4800#comment-175431</guid>
		<description>cluster,
My brother-in-law and I agree on most issues.  However, he voted for Bush both times and McCain last election because of the abortion issue.  I have a felling there are a lot of others like him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cluster,<br />
My brother-in-law and I agree on most issues.  However, he voted for Bush both times and McCain last election because of the abortion issue.  I have a felling there are a lot of others like him.</p>
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		<title>By: cluster</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2009/05/21/obama-waterboardinggitmo-speech/comment-page-3/#comment-175428</link>
		<dc:creator>cluster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 01:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/?p=4800#comment-175428</guid>
		<description>There are a lot of one issue voters out there.&lt;/b&gt;


I disagree. While that may be a big issue to some, or many. It is hardly the single reason for their vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a lot of one issue voters out there.</p>
<p>I disagree. While that may be a big issue to some, or many. It is hardly the single reason for their vote.</p>
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		<title>By: casper</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2009/05/21/obama-waterboardinggitmo-speech/comment-page-3/#comment-175427</link>
		<dc:creator>casper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 01:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/?p=4800#comment-175427</guid>
		<description>&quot;When have I ever tried to paint this issue balck and white? I would not oppose a woman’s choice at all in the case of incest or rape.&quot;

Something we agree on.  

&quot;how would a reversal of Roe v Wade “ruin” the GOP?&quot;

There are a lot of one issue voters out there.  Take away the issue and you risk losing the voters.

&quot;Secondly, you must treasure this life more than me. I actually believe that life begins after death.&quot;

I do treasure life a great deal.  It gets more interesting every day.

&quot;There’s just too much chaos and stupidity down here.&quot;

I kind of enjoy chaos and stupidity.  That&#039;s why I like teaching Jr. High.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When have I ever tried to paint this issue balck and white? I would not oppose a woman’s choice at all in the case of incest or rape.&#8221;</p>
<p>Something we agree on.  </p>
<p>&#8220;how would a reversal of Roe v Wade “ruin” the GOP?&#8221;</p>
<p>There are a lot of one issue voters out there.  Take away the issue and you risk losing the voters.</p>
<p>&#8220;Secondly, you must treasure this life more than me. I actually believe that life begins after death.&#8221;</p>
<p>I do treasure life a great deal.  It gets more interesting every day.</p>
<p>&#8220;There’s just too much chaos and stupidity down here.&#8221;</p>
<p>I kind of enjoy chaos and stupidity.  That&#8217;s why I like teaching Jr. High.</p>
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		<title>By: jeremiah</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2009/05/21/obama-waterboardinggitmo-speech/comment-page-3/#comment-175425</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 01:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/?p=4800#comment-175425</guid>
		<description>And one other thing that I&#039;d like to add, Mark, as I was reading this thread post that you wrote, is this goes along with what or whom Barack Obama says he wants on the Supreme Court ... he said he wants someone who is &quot;empathetic,&quot; he wants someone who will empathize with the terrorists, with the perverts, with atheists, with communists, socialists and the list goes on.

And you see, that&#039;s what I&#039;m saying ... we&#039;re living in troubled times, and I know I&#039;ve been sounding the alarm/warning for a long time...and well, I don&#039;t know the full details of everything, but one thing I do know...and that is that, the decisions that Mr. Obama has made and is going to make aren&#039;t going to bode well for America, as we are gaining less and less ground in the pursuit of happiness for a civil society because of our educational system...immorality is encouraged there more than anywhere, because they not only have free access to the internet which is full of immorality and unclean spirits of every kind but they teach immorality and support Planned Parenthood and they encourage hatred for Christianity. Education is a well-oiled propaganda machine on and on it goes. And the machine needs to be destroyed.

Nothing is really for sure anymore, except one thing, God knows the future and it is under His direction no matter which way we go because He gave the very best that Heaven had in order to give us another chance, and I thank Him that I still have the opportunity to be a witness...it&#039;s only because of Him that we still have the little freedom that we have and pretty soon, He may allow that to be taken away as well, as a result of America&#039;s long-overdue obedience to His Word. Of course, soon, He will return in all His glory!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And one other thing that I&#8217;d like to add, Mark, as I was reading this thread post that you wrote, is this goes along with what or whom Barack Obama says he wants on the Supreme Court &#8230; he said he wants someone who is &#8220;empathetic,&#8221; he wants someone who will empathize with the terrorists, with the perverts, with atheists, with communists, socialists and the list goes on.</p>
<p>And you see, that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m saying &#8230; we&#8217;re living in troubled times, and I know I&#8217;ve been sounding the alarm/warning for a long time&#8230;and well, I don&#8217;t know the full details of everything, but one thing I do know&#8230;and that is that, the decisions that Mr. Obama has made and is going to make aren&#8217;t going to bode well for America, as we are gaining less and less ground in the pursuit of happiness for a civil society because of our educational system&#8230;immorality is encouraged there more than anywhere, because they not only have free access to the internet which is full of immorality and unclean spirits of every kind but they teach immorality and support Planned Parenthood and they encourage hatred for Christianity. Education is a well-oiled propaganda machine on and on it goes. And the machine needs to be destroyed.</p>
<p>Nothing is really for sure anymore, except one thing, God knows the future and it is under His direction no matter which way we go because He gave the very best that Heaven had in order to give us another chance, and I thank Him that I still have the opportunity to be a witness&#8230;it&#8217;s only because of Him that we still have the little freedom that we have and pretty soon, He may allow that to be taken away as well, as a result of America&#8217;s long-overdue obedience to His Word. Of course, soon, He will return in all His glory!</p>
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		<title>By: cluster</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2009/05/21/obama-waterboardinggitmo-speech/comment-page-2/#comment-175422</link>
		<dc:creator>cluster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 01:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/?p=4800#comment-175422</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;It’s not the black or white issue that you would like to make it. - Casper&lt;/b&gt;

When have I ever tried to paint this issue balck and white? I would not oppose a woman&#039;s choice at all in the case of incest or rape. And how would a reversal of Roe v Wade &quot;ruin&quot; the GOP?

Secondly, you must treasure this life more than me. I actually believe that life begins after death. There&#039;s just too much chaos and stupidity down here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>It’s not the black or white issue that you would like to make it. &#8211; Casper</b></p>
<p>When have I ever tried to paint this issue balck and white? I would not oppose a woman&#8217;s choice at all in the case of incest or rape. And how would a reversal of Roe v Wade &#8220;ruin&#8221; the GOP?</p>
<p>Secondly, you must treasure this life more than me. I actually believe that life begins after death. There&#8217;s just too much chaos and stupidity down here.</p>
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		<title>By: jeremiah</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2009/05/21/obama-waterboardinggitmo-speech/comment-page-2/#comment-175421</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 00:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/?p=4800#comment-175421</guid>
		<description>Mark,

Well, Muslim terrorists do go on a lot of suicide bombings. They try to lay claim to this idea of going to Paradise when they &quot;slay and are slain&quot; for &quot;Allah&quot; as justification for these acts of terrorism. And they actively encourage their sons and daughters to commit to such acts. We seen one of these acts carried out on our own soil on September 11, 2001. Suicide bombing is just one aspect of Jihad though...today, it is an ideological Jihad, in which the leaders of Islam want tolerance for their cult...we see this playing out very heavily in Europe...but what they do not show you, however, is the sheer hatred and intolerance of the ideology that they are tolerating, which leads to a very dangerous situation where people of other faiths, especially Jews and Christians are forced out of public arena altogether...and this is an identical example of what is happening on America&#039;s soil with the homosexual community...there is no difference...they (atheists &amp; homosexuals) want us to tolerate their intolerance.

As it relates to Islam, when the time is right, and they have total control, then there will be much bloodshed. It&#039;s first acceptance, then control and power, then bloodshed comes.

This is why it&#039;s important that we not allow this mentality to pervade any part of our society, or be giving them special privileges as it will lead to a disaster of monumental proportions.

Like the Bible says about if the eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, if the hand sins against you cut it off, and so forth (speaking in a spiritual sense) ... if there&#039;s things in America that are foreseen to hinder good, or cause trouble, then we need  to get it out, because it has no place in society.

And if I&#039;m correct, the tolerance part is Sergei&#039;s goal, he&#039;s tolerance for Muslims and their as FmrMarine says, cutthroat ideology, religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>Well, Muslim terrorists do go on a lot of suicide bombings. They try to lay claim to this idea of going to Paradise when they &#8220;slay and are slain&#8221; for &#8220;Allah&#8221; as justification for these acts of terrorism. And they actively encourage their sons and daughters to commit to such acts. We seen one of these acts carried out on our own soil on September 11, 2001. Suicide bombing is just one aspect of Jihad though&#8230;today, it is an ideological Jihad, in which the leaders of Islam want tolerance for their cult&#8230;we see this playing out very heavily in Europe&#8230;but what they do not show you, however, is the sheer hatred and intolerance of the ideology that they are tolerating, which leads to a very dangerous situation where people of other faiths, especially Jews and Christians are forced out of public arena altogether&#8230;and this is an identical example of what is happening on America&#8217;s soil with the homosexual community&#8230;there is no difference&#8230;they (atheists &amp; homosexuals) want us to tolerate their intolerance.</p>
<p>As it relates to Islam, when the time is right, and they have total control, then there will be much bloodshed. It&#8217;s first acceptance, then control and power, then bloodshed comes.</p>
<p>This is why it&#8217;s important that we not allow this mentality to pervade any part of our society, or be giving them special privileges as it will lead to a disaster of monumental proportions.</p>
<p>Like the Bible says about if the eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, if the hand sins against you cut it off, and so forth (speaking in a spiritual sense) &#8230; if there&#8217;s things in America that are foreseen to hinder good, or cause trouble, then we need  to get it out, because it has no place in society.</p>
<p>And if I&#8217;m correct, the tolerance part is Sergei&#8217;s goal, he&#8217;s tolerance for Muslims and their as FmrMarine says, cutthroat ideology, religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Noonan</title>
		<link>http://blogsforvictory.com/2009/05/21/obama-waterboardinggitmo-speech/comment-page-2/#comment-175420</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Noonan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 00:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogsforvictory.com/?p=4800#comment-175420</guid>
		<description>Sergei,

Which is why I like you - you do read; you just haven&#039;t read enough...but  you will, once life&#039;s experiences start modifying the stuff your professors have told you with so much confidence in their voice.  There is no replacement for experience, though - no matter how well read and educated the brain surgeon, if given your &#039;druthers, you&#039;d want the guy who&#039;s actually done it before rather than the first-timer.  I&#039;m not putting on airs here, I&#039;m just pointing out a salient fact - I have experience of what we are talking about in that, for instance, I was in radio school at the time of the Marine Corps barracks bombing in Beirut...learning about what the terrorists were up to and who was running the show was a matter of, shall we say, professional curiosity.  And then I got to cheat - having a rather nifty Top Secret security clearance and being in communications, I got to read a large number of very interesting things.  I know whereof I speak on the origins of our terrorist trouble.

The foremost thing, I think, that you should learn about terrorism is the fact that the terrorist leaders - for all their talk of God and martyrdom - never volunteer themselves for the suicide mission.  I mean, if you really believe you&#039;re doing God&#039;s work and that God will bring  your side victory, what do you care whether you live to see it, or not?  But terrorist leaders are very interested in living - this shows that whatever they might have been at the start, now that they are leaders they are cowards...they want to live, and the only way they can live is if they have a safe haven.  Take away the safe haven, and the terrorists become mere bandits, to be rounded up by the local militia.

Now, here&#039;s the tricky part - you can&#039;t really take away the safe haven until you&#039;ve taken away the sorts of governments which become safe havens; either completely weak governments or amazingly strong governments.  Iran and Somalia are two sides of the same safe haven coin.  No deals about Israel, no pledges against waterboarding, no American withdrawal from this or that place will win the war - only completely changing the socio-political dynamic of the Arab/Moslem world will do.  President Bush understood this.  President Obama doesn&#039;t.  Neither do you - but I think you&#039;ll figure it out faster than Obama does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sergei,</p>
<p>Which is why I like you &#8211; you do read; you just haven&#8217;t read enough&#8230;but  you will, once life&#8217;s experiences start modifying the stuff your professors have told you with so much confidence in their voice.  There is no replacement for experience, though &#8211; no matter how well read and educated the brain surgeon, if given your &#8216;druthers, you&#8217;d want the guy who&#8217;s actually done it before rather than the first-timer.  I&#8217;m not putting on airs here, I&#8217;m just pointing out a salient fact &#8211; I have experience of what we are talking about in that, for instance, I was in radio school at the time of the Marine Corps barracks bombing in Beirut&#8230;learning about what the terrorists were up to and who was running the show was a matter of, shall we say, professional curiosity.  And then I got to cheat &#8211; having a rather nifty Top Secret security clearance and being in communications, I got to read a large number of very interesting things.  I know whereof I speak on the origins of our terrorist trouble.</p>
<p>The foremost thing, I think, that you should learn about terrorism is the fact that the terrorist leaders &#8211; for all their talk of God and martyrdom &#8211; never volunteer themselves for the suicide mission.  I mean, if you really believe you&#8217;re doing God&#8217;s work and that God will bring  your side victory, what do you care whether you live to see it, or not?  But terrorist leaders are very interested in living &#8211; this shows that whatever they might have been at the start, now that they are leaders they are cowards&#8230;they want to live, and the only way they can live is if they have a safe haven.  Take away the safe haven, and the terrorists become mere bandits, to be rounded up by the local militia.</p>
<p>Now, here&#8217;s the tricky part &#8211; you can&#8217;t really take away the safe haven until you&#8217;ve taken away the sorts of governments which become safe havens; either completely weak governments or amazingly strong governments.  Iran and Somalia are two sides of the same safe haven coin.  No deals about Israel, no pledges against waterboarding, no American withdrawal from this or that place will win the war &#8211; only completely changing the socio-political dynamic of the Arab/Moslem world will do.  President Bush understood this.  President Obama doesn&#8217;t.  Neither do you &#8211; but I think you&#8217;ll figure it out faster than Obama does.</p>
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