Cleaning House or Eating Our Own?
Tags: Second American Revolution.
Click here to get Caucus of Corruption: The Truth About The New Democratic Majority by Matt Margolis and Mark Noonan.
The TEA Party laid down a marker regarding NY-23:
We are extremely disappointed that the Republican Party (and leaders like Newt Gingrich) has missed the message of the Tea Parties and continues to take conservative voters for granted. We applaud all courageous statesmen (Fred Thompson, Michelle Bachmann, and Dick Armey) and call on other GOP officials to put America’s values over traditional, often corrupt and morally bankrupt, power structures.
I understand the anger – in fact, I agree in principle with it. On the other hand, we need to have a care here. I’m a Republican and it will only by via the Republican Party that our nation will be rescued from Obama’s socialism and returned to our Founders’ constitutional republic. The Republican Party must stop recruiting RINOs on the theory that any “R” will do. The TEA Party movement must learn to be selective in expressing outrage.
As regards NY-23, this was (and is) an excellent means for the TEA Party to show the GOP establishment just how outraged the base is and how we’re not going to take having RINO’s foisted upon us by Beltway insiders who are afraid to fight it out in the realm of ideas. But to take some of the GOP establishment’s actions regarding NY-23 and apply it to the entirety of the GOP leadership is suicidal. Yes, Gingrich should have thought a bit harder – but he’s still one of us, and if we’re to get in to the game of condemnation for the slightest error, we might as well pack it in, go home and get ready for socialism. Meanwhile, in contrast to Gingrich there are many establishment GOPers who made the right choice – making blanket condemnations of the GOP for the failure of some just means we’d be cutting off the best of the best at the knees.
While our hero Barry Goldwater correctly noted that extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, there is a vice in being intransigent. Don’t oppose just to oppose and don’t fly off the handle and condemn just because of a momentary lack of purity. Explain what you want; advise the erring why they’re wrong; work very hard for people who do get it – but leave the political suicide stuff at the door.
Thank you for visiting Blogs For Victory. If you enjoy our content, please consider making a donation to help us cover the costs of our servers.Mark Noonan is co-author (with Matt Margolis) of Caucus of Corruption: The Truth About The New Democratic Majority. He also blogs at Nevada News and Views. Follow Mark on Twitter.
45 Responses to “Cleaning House or Eating Our Own?”
Caucus of Corruption
Opposition to RINO’s is very important right now. As for getting upset at the actions of GOP Leaders, if they are trying to foist a RINO on a district, then the people have a right to be upset. The national leaders need to understand that most Tea Party people are looking for real, fiscally conservative, changes and are willing to push hard to get them. Compromise that lets RINO’s to get away with going with the libs needs to end. The size of government (local, state, and federal) needs to start shrinking, not continue growing.
damn yankees…
Several of us are having a discussion off-blog on this topic and whether the Tea Party movement will have the effect of pressuring the GOP to move to the right or whether it will become a significant third party in its own right.
Clearly, if the situation in NY-23rd were to become common-place, it would have one or both of those results, but I question the logistics of it becoming commonplace. And I question who would belong to such a party on any kind of national scale, given that their main reward, at lease inititally, would be to put pressure on the GOP and potentially help a Democrat win. I think the odds, at this point, of a significant number of people winning national seats on a Conservative third party ticket are slim to none. OTOH, I do think Sarah Palin may have what it takes to actually form a Conservative third party (what an irony that would be), should the GOP continue its stubborn ways in the next election cycle or two, and I think the Tea Party movement is providing a ready-made constituency. It’s going to be pretty obvious by 2012 whether or not the leaders and power brokers within the GOP are interested in the GOP being the party of Conservatism. They made that conscious decision in 1994, and it brought them out of the wilderness for the first time in over 40 years. And now Newt Gingrich, the architect of that decision, is backing a woman with a 15% Conservative rating. What’s wrong with that picture?
I’m a Conservative first and a Republican a distant second. I would still prefer that the GOP be the political voice of Conservatism, but I’m not adverse at all to the idea of a true Conservative Party, should the GOP continue to believe that conservative principles are not part of a winning formula in spite of solid evidence to the contrary. When you look at Reagan’s two overwhelming victories, and then at Bush 41 and Bush 43’s (neither of whom is a true Conservative) victories, one would have to be brain dead to not see that, at least at the national level, Conservatism wins over Liberalism the majority of the time. This is still a center/right country, but given a choice between a centrist candidate and a left-of-center candidate promising hope and change, there are still a lot of suckers. I’m guessing, though, that a hope and change platform isn’t going to be successful again any time soon, at least not without some accompanying specifics.
spook,
The GOP establishment does need to get with the program – but we daren’t split the GOP base because that will just ensure that we’re socialists for good and all.
Pressure, argue, fight…but, when the chips are down, better the GOP than the alternative.
kj,
The major mistake of the NY GOP was to select a nominee rather than, say, have a local party caucus and allow all interested parties to speak their piece to the locally gathered party faithful. Now, maybe the RINO would have still got the nomination – but she would have much greater legitimacy if there were at least some rank and file input on her selection. She was clearly chosen by the big boys in order to, in their mind, appeal to Independents…who, to the big boys, are to a man and woman in favor of gay marriage and abortion (at least, that is my supposition – else why select someone with those views?…unless the NY GOP powers that be are just plain and simple idiots who actually believe what is in the New York Times…anything is possible, I guess). By so doing, the base was angered and as independents are clearly favoring Hoffman over the GOPer, it is clear that there is at least a substantial portion of independent voters who are such not out of a wishy-washy inability to choose, but because they are conservative/libertarian and are ticked off at GOP RINOism.
The powerful are going to have to get used to we, the people, taking charge…they are to start doing our bidding, or pay the price.
Mark,
It will be interesting to see how well the GOP leadership really listens to “we the people” and how well they change. I am more libertarian, although I am a registered Republican. I do not have that strong of an alliegence to the party if they keep moving away from fiscal conservatism and smaller government.
Pressure, argue, fight…but, when the chips are down, better the GOP than the alternative.
I don’t disagree with you often, Mark, but in this case I do. About the only difference between the Democrat and Republican parties at this point is the speed with which each is advancing the country toward some hybrid combination of socialism and corporate fascism. IMHO, it’s akin to the difference between being shot in the head directly or having your arms and legs cut off before you’re shot in the head. In the end, you’re still dead. With the second scenario, it just takes a little longer.
I do think Sarah Palin may have what it takes to actually form a Conservative third party…retiredspook
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If your dreams were to come true, spook, and Palin actually did form a third party, what do you think her platform would be?
Although other democracies have long offered the voter more than two parties and seem to have survived quite well, it is baffling as to why this choice doesn’t appear feasible for the greatest country in the history of the world.
Have you ever asked yourself why a third party has never been successful in the U.S. political arena, spook?
I do not have that strong of an alliegence to the party if they keep moving away from fiscal conservatism and smaller government.
Bingo! And that sentiment is growing. The GOP ignores it at its own peril.
If your dreams were to come true, spook, and Palin actually did form a third party, what do you think her platform would be?
See, CO, you can ask reasonable questions with out being, as the moderator said, “snippy”. I can only guess, by what Palin did in Alaska, but I suspect tackling corruption (in both parties) would be one of her first orders of business. I would also guess that energy independence with no alternative left off the table would be high on her list of priorities, as would getting spending under control and putting our fiscal house in order.
Have you ever asked yourself why a third party has never been successful in the U.S. political arena, spook?
Often.
About the only difference between the Democrat and Republican parties at this point is the speed with which each is advancing the country toward some hybrid combination of socialism and corporate fascism. – Spook
Well said. I however somewhat agree with Mark, a third party has never gained traction, so forcing this on the GOP is our best alternative. Maybe a slow death is preferable, LOL.
I am tired of bureaucrats and adminstrators running our government. As evidenced by the current king of idiots (Obama), bureaucrats have no sense of business, and always believe that they are just one tax hike away from resolving our problems. Bureaucrats are also big believers in the ever growing bureaucracy, which as an extension, strips away our liberties.
It’s time to elect common sense, small business owners, and other practical people to run our country. Palin definitely has those qualities.
Bingo! And that sentiment is growing. The GOP ignores it at its own peril.
yup they better wake up and clean house.
neocon1 says: October 26th, 2009 at 9:45 am
“yup they (the GOP, my insert) better wake up and clean house.”
_
agree. the GOP should eliminate the dixiecrat extremists who (incorrectly) see all other republicans as “RINO’s”.
ohio,
Where were you all weekend? Back at work I see and on the company computer.
Typical liberal.
Oh and ohio,
Did you see where Magnum wanted to rid the Democrats of the blue dogs the other day? Further purifying the lunatic left huh?
cluster says: October 26th, 2009 at 11:07 am
I worked all weekend plus had a date…& she really liked the double o.
agree. the GOP should eliminate the dixiecrat extremists who (incorrectly) see all other republicans as “RINO’s”.
orrin, I think if you took an poll of likely voters and asked the question, “would you rather have a choice of a good or bad candidate or a choice of a bad or worse candidate”; the majority, regardless of political party, would prefer a choice between good and bad. The problem is that what people in one area of the country see as good, people in another part of the country see as bad. Absent the centrist party that you so often tout, I don’t see how the 2-party system can continue in it’s present form. Something has to give.
retiredspook says: October 26th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
“Absent the centrist party that you so often tout, I don’t see how the 2-party system can continue in it’s present form.”
_
judging by the dramatic increase of indies, many agree w you.
00
…& she really liked the double o.
is she deaf dumb and blind? LOL
ohio,
Where were you all weekend? Back at work I see and on the company computer.
Typical liberal.
yup a thief!
herein lies the real problem…if we cant trust politicians to be bound by thier campain promises…then its absolutely useless to put our faith in any political party espousing our beliefs because we can not be insured that those beliefs will hold value in the politians actions after the election is over….its a no brainer…
americans were lied to in 2000 by the GOP….the contract with america turned into a breach of contract with america….in 06 the DNC did the same thing…they ran on the promise to end the Iraq war and after the election they went back to business as usual…in 2008 americans were promised change and hope….only to find the only change was anti americanism and the hope they said they represented was nothing more than a misdirection, a tool they use to put the ring in peoples nose for a vote…or in blunt terms…we have been lied to enough…and are getting pretty fed up with it…
right now powerful influence is being exerted on the US using the green movements good faith….by socialists and communists who have no intent or true commitment to saving the polar bears or giving us all free and/or clean energy….not one dime of the stimulus was truely ment to save the economy, but only a token showing to misdirect our attention while they blow the lions share of that 1.4 trillion on BS waste like the clunker program and special interest projects….not to mention the blatant move to take over specific, powerful industry (the steps to communism)…
yes, if the GOP doesnt snap out of it, there will be other parties…the one that wins the heart of freedom will replace the GOP…and hopefully the socialist movement that took over the DNC over the last 40 years will fail, because its risen its head and people are finally realizing that freedom is far more attractive than the marxist and communists that have been fooling them for 2 generations…
Spook,
It’s not the parties, it’s the current people representing the parties. We have way too many entrenched politicos, beholden to special interests, lobbyists and their own lust for power. We desperately need fresh blood all the way around, and I am beginning to think term limits may be the way to go. It used to be that people would go to Washington to represent and serve, they now go to entrench themselves, and as evidenced by Obama, try and amass so much federal power that they have lifetime appointments.
cluster
definitely term limits.
it works for everything else, two terms senate, four congress & OUT!
cluster & fmr, do you have cognitive problems?…
…or do u want to look stupid?
our R&D facility runs nonstop.
since I worked this last weekend, I’m off now & at a coffeeshop w wifi as a customer.
comprende?
js02 says: October 26th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
“americans were lied to in 2000 by the GOP….”
_
yep, no nukes & no 9/11 connection
As Newt pointed out recently, Scazzofava was nominated by local party officials, and it is the conservative opposition that has a more national flavor. For example, the article that Mark cites indicates, “Tomorrow, beginning in St. Louis at noon, several tea party cities will publicly demand GOP denunciation of the nomination of Dede Scozzafava and demand support for conservatism.” As most are probably aware, St. Louis is not in NY-23. And neither are Memphis, Quincy, Huntsville, Los Angeles, Pasadena, and New York. That’s a bit ironic, don’t you think? The only way you can call this an example of “grass roots opposition” is to horribly distort the meaning of the term.
ohioorrin says:
yep, no nukes & no 9/11 connection
October 26th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
see…this is the way libtards work…they dont read…they dont understand…shoot…its rare to find them actually thinking about anything….they just respond with hollow rhetoric…
figure out how anybody lied to anyone about nukes in Iraq or 9/11/2001 during the 2000 election though, and you get a cookie….
ricorun says: That’s a bit ironic, don’t you think?
October 26th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
not really…the tea party is just beginning to get organized…shoot…less than a year old and it orchestrated the largest public demonstration that ever hit DC’s pavement…fact is they are gathering power based on identifiing with conservative values…so yes, grass roots opposition that grows into a tall tree…
js02 says:October 26th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I stand corrected.
the gop 2000 lie was bush saying the military wouldn’t be used to nation-build.
2001 wwas no nukes & no 9/11 connection.
thx !
cluster & neo, do you have cognitive problems?…
…or do u want to look stupid?
our R&D facility runs nonstop.
since I worked this last weekend, I’m off now & at a coffeeshop w wifi as a customer.
Uh huh…….you are in your little janitor closet stealing time from your employer rather than cleaning urinals like you are supposed to be.
We applaud all courageous statesmen (Fred Thompson, Michelle Bachmann, and Dick Armey) and call on other GOP officials to put America’s values over traditional, often corrupt and morally bankrupt, power structures.
They all need to speak up more, I lost newt when he sucked up to and befriended BJ bubba
We applaud all courageous statesmen (Fred Thompson, Michelle Bachmann, and Dick Armey) and call on other GOP officials to put America’s values over traditional, often corrupt and morally bankrupt, power structures.
If the above comment was actually and honestly directed at correcting the problems in the power structures, then I would agree. But I strongly suspect the reality is that the effort is far more directed at getting those currently out of power into power. I don’t find myself agreeing with js02 very often, but unless the outrage is directed at changing the power structures, rather than just changing the people in them, then every contract with America is destined to be breached. Said more grandiloquently, it is tantamount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and expecting that to change the ship’s course.
kj,
Indeed – but we must also guard against going too far towards the Libertarian viewpoint. Remember, a thoroughgoing Libertarian is ok with porn, prostitution and trading which whomever you like, regardless of how nasty the other guy is. As it has been since Christianity first arose to replace the dying civilization of Greece and Rome, the whole task of politics is to strike a balance – to have a well ordered liberty.
spook,
Point taken – but if I’m being killed slowly by RINOs, then I still have a chance to recover.
ricorun,
While one should be careful of over generalizing about the TEA Party movement, I think that if we wanted to get to the core of it, the desire is to downright overthrow the current power structure.
I think that if we wanted to get to the core of it, the desire is to downright overthrow the current power structure.
Mark, I’ve been to 3 Tea Parties and 2 Town Halls, and, from all the people I’ve talked to, as well as those I’ve heard speak, I’d say your assessment is spot on.
Mark: While one should be careful of over generalizing about the TEA Party movement, I think that if we wanted to get to the core of it, the desire is to downright overthrow the current power structure.
Spook: I’ve been to 3 Tea Parties and 2 Town Halls, and, from all the people I’ve talked to, as well as those I’ve heard speak, I’d say your assessment is spot on.
And replace it with what? Isn’t a carefully considered answer to that question kind of important???
IMO, this is the best time in recent history for the GOP to honestly grapple with those questions. The Dems did a little beyond just rearranging the deck chairs when they gained power. I would be very impressed if GOP candidates insisted on doing much more. But to my mind, precious few have truly addressed the issue thus far — certainly not in terms of what I think is truly important, and even fewer with any record of practicing what they preach. To my mind, Bobby Jindal is arguably the only exception thus far in terms of a candidate with any national stature.
ricorun,
You might be expecting too much, too soon – we’re all groping for the right thing. I’ve gone to Distributism for my inspiration, but no past idea is going to be ready made for our current issues. Certainly, we need far less and far simpler regulations…but we also need to figure out the ways and means of preventing any corporation from becoming “too big to fail”, and just as important is figuring out a way to force our government to balance the books – and really balance them; no fiscal tricks!
spook,
Its the impression I get – people who are willing to work within the system but only so far as they see a means of completely reforming it. God help the Powers That Be if the people figure they can’t reform it, any more.
Mark,
Define porno! Sorry, I grew up with a father who ran adult bookstores and theaters. He was never convicted of pornography because he made sure he knew what the “community standards” were. Community standards is how the Supreme Court stated what obsenity (ie pornography) is in each area.
I do believe that morals are essential. And I am thankful that my Mother made sure I had a strong religious education. With that, came an understanding that the business that my father owned was not one that I would want to have. However, my parents both taught that “Freedom of Speech” includes being free to have a business that others do not like.
As for prostitution – please lets let local governments decide if they want to legalize, regulate, and tax it like any other business. If that is done, then organized crime will have one less area to exploit the innocent.
Yes, I am really a strong libertarian. And much to the chagrin of my more conservative friends, I firmly believe that until there is another way to do it, no MAN should be able to tell an ADULT woman whether or not she can have an abortion before the fetus is viable (without major intervention).
Rico,
Have you ever read the Federalist Papers? Or any of the various works on the early US government and its formation. The idea going through all of them is that the overthrow of corrupt governments is the duty of all patriots. Guess what, both parties have contributed to the corruption being seen. The best that can be said, is that when a corrupt Republican is found out, the party will kick them out. The Democrats have not been willing to do that.
The replacement would be people who are not beholden to Big Business, Big Government, and the lobbiests. And that would not be a bad thing, it would mean that we could get rid of unnecessary departments and actions.
kjs
no MAN should be able to tell an ADULT woman whether or not she can have an abortion before the fetus is viable
strong religious upbringing?
doesnt sound it to me,
porno shops and abortions?
maybe time to rethink that statement.
Mark
God help the Powers That Be if the people figure they can’t reform it, any more.
We are coming very close to that point. If re have a depression and financial collapse like some predict life for the US will never be the same in our or our children s lifetime.
Neo,
I personally would not have an abortion, even having been a victim of rape at an early age. I have seen the price women pay for unplanned pregnancy, no matter what choice they make. Give a child up for adoption, even though you know that gives the child the best chance, and it leaves a hole in the woman that almost never gets filled, even if/when she has more children. Keep the child, marry a man you don’t love, and think of how bad that can be. Keep the child, be a single parent – well that only turns out well on great and rare occasions. And then there is the idea of trying to get through a pregnancy that started with rape or incest. When medicine comes up with a way to remove an unplanned fetus and grow it to babyhood in an artificial womb, so that it can then be adopted (saving a woman from becoming attached to the baby while it grows inside her), then I will be for an end to abortion.
As for the adult shops, my parents divorced when my father insisted on opening them. I may not like them, never paid money to go, and such, but I believe that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights covered their right to exist. Want them gone, get people to stop spending money. In fact, at the time of my father’s death, he was moving away from adult shops to regular (ala Blockbuster) video rental stores. He was seeing the decrease in business, and understood that tastes were changing.
As for my upbringing. That was my mother, not my father. He was rarely home, so her beliefs held more sway. She just also felt that differences should be recognized, not punished.
kjs
I personally would not have an abortion, even having been a victim of rape at an early age. I have seen the price women pay for unplanned pregnancy, no matter what choice they make.
I feel for you rape is a terrible crime, I just have to go with Gods word on this matter though I believe there are times when an abortion is unavoidable…..but what we have today makes the holicost pale in comparison.
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As for the adult shops, my parents divorced when my father insisted on opening them.
Ok
Good for your Mom……I will go along and say that they are permitted under the constitution and that it is a state matter as much as I dislike them.
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As for my upbringing. That was my mother, not my father. He was rarely home, so her beliefs held more sway. She just also felt that differences should be recognized, not punished.
Well after your lengthy explanation (not always easy on a blog) I stand corrected.
Thank you for it.