Out and About on a Tuesday Morning

Putin calls America a “parasite” on the global economy…I’d be offended except this is the opinion of the leader of a kleptocracy presiding over the dying nation of Russia.

We’re broke…but we’re giving out free birth control.  Nothing like having our priorities in order, huh?  You know, really, death and despair really aren’t the answer.

DC residents are America’s biggest boozers…puts a new twist on the “spending money like a drunken sailor” thing.

The Anchoress picks up a timely quote from Chesterton…use it any time you hear a Ruling Class cretin getting upset about the TEA Party or, indeed, any manifestation of popular will:

Our Civilization has decided, and very justly decided, that determining the guilt or innocence of men is a thing too important to be trusted to trained men. It wishes for light upon that awful matter, it asks men to know no more law than I know, but who can feel the thing that I felt in the jury box. When it wants a library catalogued, or the solar system discovered, or any trifle of that kind, it uses up its specialists. But when it wishes anything done which is really serious, it collects twelve of the ordinary men standing round. The same thing was done, if I remember right, by the founder of Christianity.

I got one, too:

Roughly speaking, there are three kinds of people in this world. The first kind of people are People; they are the largest and probably the most valuable class. We owe to this class the chairs we sit down on, the clothes we wear, the houses we live in; and, indeed (when we come to think of it), we probably belong to this class ourselves. The second class may be called for convenience the Poets; they are often a nuisance to their families, but, generally speaking, a blessing to mankind. The third class is that of the Professors or Intellectuals; sometimes described as the thoughtful people; and these are a blight and a desolation both to their families and also to mankind. Of course, the classification sometimes overlaps, like all classification. Some good people are almost poets and some bad poets are almost professors. But the division follows lines of real psychological cleavage.

The next make-believe battle the MSM will say is tearing the GOP apart – a fight between deficit and defense hawks.  Yawn.  Next…

 

 

 

 

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73 thoughts on “Out and About on a Tuesday Morning

  1. neocon1


    HOUSE CHEER$ TRILLION$ MORE IN DEBT

    meanwhile back at the raunch………

    PUTIN: USA ‘parasite’ on global economy..
    .. Health Dept approves free birth control…

    Thieves stealing AC units in Chicago…

    Personal income stalls; spending drops, first decline since ’09…

    Manufacturing drops to lowest level in two years…

    ‘Double Dip Here’…

    RI Town Files for Bankruptcy…

    there are no mobs and tanks in front of congress and the wh WHY??

    1. bardolf

      GOOD NEWS

      “Lawmakers risk losing more than $1 billion in revenue from uncollected airline ticket taxes in a quarrel between Senate Democrats and House Republicans who are demanding a $16.5 million cut in rural air service subsidies.”

      Just Obama and the Senate Democrats delivering another tax cut to boost business.

      1. neocon1

        but but but

        Triple-A Moody Ratings Are Nonsense:
        Scary Mind of Liberal Tax & Spend Economist Exposed — Paul Krugman Says Debt 90% of GDP Is Fine & US Credit Rating Downgrade Doesn’t Matter

        these people are insane.

      2. neocon1

        baldork catspuke

        Is DAT U??

        The third class is that of the Professors or Intellectuals; sometimes described as the thoughtful people;
        and these are a blight and a desolation both to their families and also to mankind.

        those who CAN do.
        those who CANT teach…
        (sorry baldork I couldnt resist)
        the devil made me do it. :)

  2. Cluster

    Just to be sure that uncertainty in the marketplace continues, Reid again threatens tax increases:

    “We’ve had too much talk the last few days of Republicans as early as this morning, Republican leaders in the Senate saying there will be no revenue. That’s not going to happen. Otherwise, the trigger is going to kick in. The only way we can arrive at a fair arrangement for the American people with this joint committee is to have equal sharing. It’s going to be painful. Each party if they do the right thing, it’s going to be painful for them because to be fair, we have to move forward. There has to be equal spending cuts, there has to be some revenue that matches that,” Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) said on the floor of the Senate right before voting started on the debt deal.

    Democrats sure don’t want their base to think that they have dropped the class warfare card.

    1. bardolf

      Democrats don’t want their base to forget who has most benefitted from the tax cuts under Bush. It’s understandable why the GOP talking points avoid payroll taxes, gas taxes, red state handouts …

      1. Thomasg0102

        bardolf,

        neoconehead is routinely caught posting falsehoods and blatant lies. He doesn’t care though, he keeps chugging along.

        The funny thing is, tiredoffacts spouts about talking points and lies, and yet, he ignores Neo’s inconvenient lies…I guess hypocracy is their middle name.

        neo, stop embarrasing yourself fake marine. A real marine would at least make sure he isn’t posting lies.

    1. neocon1

      tommygasbag/baldork

      I simply forwarded an E mail…nothing to do with me or the GOP
      like dan blather and you leftards fake but true….
      suck it up and do your own homework.

      1. neocon1

        baldork

        Joke???
        like bite me biden accusing fellow American congressional representatives as being terrorists?
        Oh yeah what a laugh…..
        work on that humor boy :)

      2. bardolf

        like bite me biden accusing fellow American congressional representatives as being terrorists?-Neoconehead

        Biden was a senator and is still President of the Senate so he has no fellow representatives. He said some congressmen ACTED like terrorists. They held the credit rating of the US as a HOSTAGE and will do so in the future. Of course this is just red meat for his base of 2 or 3 supporters left in the world.

        Seriously, after plagiarizing and his humiliating exit from the presidential race in 88 anyone who gives import to Biden’s words is in need of therapy. Ditto for Jackson, Sharpton and Pony-Boy-Edwards.

      3. Amazona

        A Senator is a representative of the people in his constituency. Surely you are not arguing that the only way one can be considered to represent his constituency is if he is officially called a Representative, as in a member of the House of Representatives.

        Surely not.

        That would be too too silly.

      4. bardolf

        ” biden accusing fellow American congressional representatives”

        Amy,
        You’re really practicing your verbal gymnastics today. The judges gave you a 3.4 on ability so no gold medal this year.

  3. Cluster

    barstools faux conservative facade is starting to show. Wouldn’t it be common sense to think that those who pay the most in taxes, benefit the most from tax rate cuts?

    Somehow this simple concept eludes barstool

    1. neocon1

      cluster

      and this fool TEACHES at a community college.

      &
      tommyloser blogs for media matters PATHETIC!!

    2. bardolf

      The faux facade is the fiscal conservatives.

      Keep pushing the kool-aid regarding taxes. Eventually the bills need to be paid and you’re going to see a Democrat majority for 20 years if the GOP doesn’t cut back on the real big ticket items along with returning tax rates to where they were under Reagan.

      1. neocon1

        cut the fed govt by 2/3
        eliminate 90 % fed agencies,
        end 90% all govt handouts local and foreign.
        flat/fair tax ALL pay.

        term limits, build the fence, deport ALL illegal criminals, give rest 5 years for all the rest to leave, or be citizens at the end of the 5 years.

        Either we do i,t or the law of finances will do it for us in the near future.
        Think soviet union/greece.

      2. Cluster

        Hey stool,

        Have you ever considered expanding the tax base? Or are you so stuck on class warfare that any mention of anything other than bashing corporate jet owners just doesn’t compute? And I have yet to see the democrats plan on cutting back on the big ticket items – have you seen their plan?

        And I think Obama has assured us all that democrats will have to rethink their entire political philosophy before returning to power.

      3. bardolf

        Clueless

        Must be strange to live in a world where you expect the Democrats to offer a plan of fiscal Conservativism. There is a reason another party exists.

        Expanding the tax base is EXACTLY what politicians should be concentrated on and not railing against the poor as done on B4V. That is class warfare, not saying the upper tax brackets should be returned to where they were under Reagan.

        Again, if a fair tax would include purchases of homes, stocks, jets etc. along with TV’s I say go ahead.

        Do you think a stock purchase should have a 7% sales tax on it?

      4. Retired Spook

        Bardolf, I don’t know a single Conservative who wouldn’t love to lower the current 34.6% top rate back to the 28% it was when Reagan left office. Are you sure that’s what you meant?

      5. bardolf

        Spook

        For seven of Reagan’s eight years in office, the top tax rate was higher than the current 35 percent. In six of those years, it was 50 percent or more. And every year that Reagan was in office, the bottom tax bracket was higher than the current ten percent.

        For a family of four, the “average income tax rate under Reagan in 1983 was 11.06 percent. Under Clinton in 1992, it was 9.18 percent. And under Obama in 2010, it was 4.68 percent.” During Reagan’s time, income tax revenue ranged from 7.8 to 9.4 percent of GDP. Last year, it was 6.2 percent and is not projected to climb back to 9 percent until 2016. In fact, in 2009, Americans paid their lowest taxes in 60 years.

        And then there is the Reagan mythology.

      6. Taly d'Haricots (@Count_dHaricots)

        Spook,
        Don’t you get tired of that lie? Bar-tool didn’t even get the talking points quote right, he’s supposed to write “Americans paid their lowest level of taxes in 2009 since Harry Truman was in office. Small distinction in meaning like the difference between A woman without her man is nothing and A woman: without her, man is nothing.

        I’m not going to waste bandwidthrebuking it since it’s already been refuted.

        You’re right; Reagan lowered the top marginal tax rate from 70% to 28%, and reduced all tax brackets by 25%. Then in 1986 he combined the bottom two tax rates to 15% while exempting more. The almost-a-real-college-teacher from a high-school-with-ashtrays Tool prefers to look at the rates from the final Carter Budget (1981) and the reduction years that followed as the Reagan rates while ignoring the final rates Reagan was able to achieve.

        Then there’s the myth of barstool’s brain.

      7. bardolf

        Count of Cant

        Reagan lowered the top rate to 28% at the very end because the consequences wouldn’t be borne by his presidency. Nice dodge about not wanting to waste bandwidth. Facts have a well known liberal bias.

        Don’t know what you have against professors at affordable universities. I chalk it up to envy, the realization that they are doing the actual work that universities are charged with in their mission statements. That would be the opposite of governmental paid academic accountants like yourself where the job is to lower standards in exchange for raises in administrators pay. Must make you feel good at the end of the day to know you’re actually draining the energy from your institution. Throw back a scotch and tell the lawyer wife what good y’all contribute to society.

      8. Retired Spook

        Reagan lowered the top rate to 28% at the very end because the consequences wouldn’t be borne by his presidency.

        Bzzzzzzt, sorry. The Tax Reform Act of 1986 passed in October, 1986, nearly 2-1/2 years before the end of the Reagan Presidency, lowered the top marginal rate to 28%. I remember those times especially well, because that was about the time I became a political junkie. I remember a Congressman or Senator being interviewed on the evening news after the legislation passed. He said the Tax reform Act was like this giant Congressional wish list, and they ended up getting almost all of it passed into law. The bill was sponsored by 2 Democrats, and, other than signing it, Reagan had almost no involvement in crafting or passing the legislation.

  4. js

    the cuts they gave up were reductions in spending increases…over the next 10 years…boehner didnt reduce spending…he only reduced projected spending increases…so essentially…he gave up on america…its time for the states to call a constitutional convention…

    pass a balanced budget amendment

    eliminate the IRS and the Federal Reserve…and establish a flat tax collected by the states for the federal government…

    force congress to uphold its responsibility and insure that the value of the dollar doesnt drop anymore…thier enumerated duty…

    reign in the commerce clause and the general welfare clause to mean what the founding fathers meant them to mean, and not a excuse for federal intervention and usurpation of the state and the peoples natural rights to self government…

    restrict lobby efforts to representatives constituent base only…and any elected representative that violates this clause is immediately discharged from his/her elected office…requiring a special election to fill the emty seat… lobby fviolations should be criminal and carry a minimum of 6 year prison sentences

    1. js

      oh…and..moral violations…to include tax evasion…sexual misconduct…and the like….need only be considered as “more than likely” …and the violator would be suspended without pay for however long it takes to resolve the issue…if the conduct in question is confirmed…immediate termination of the elected official…loss of all retirement benefits…as these men are elected to serve while in good conduct as gentlement and ladies who represent the citizens of these United States…

  5. Cluster

    Expanding the tax base is EXACTLY what politicians should be concentrated on and not railing against the poor as done on B4V. – barstool

    Expanding the tax base would mean lowering the percentage of those not paying income taxes from 50% to hopefully somewhere around 20%, along with getting more people working, which would also mean curtailing back the 99 weeks of unemployment. Are you sure you are for that?

    Why would you want to tax stocks going in, AND going out? That doesn’t make sense, but I would be all for a 1% national sales tax.

    1. neocon1

      Currently, Social Securities unfunded obligations are more than $16.1 trillion and Medicare’s unfunded liabilities lie somewhere between $28.7 trillion (with the rather unrealistic spending reductions proposed by under the recent health care bill) and $89.3 trillion (without the reductions in spending from health care reform). If we take the best-case scenario and add the $14.3 trillion debt to the unfunded $16.1 trillion Social Security and $28.7 trillion unfunded Medicare obligations, the total debt reaches $59.1 trillion or 412 percent of GDP. In the worst-case scenario where Medicare savings are not achieved, the debt comes in at a staggering $119.5 trillion or 900 percent of GDP.

      The author estimates that by 2050, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will consume 18.4 percent of GDP and, if you recall, normal government revenue is approximately 18 percent of GDP meaning that these three programs will consume all government revenue in 40 short years. If we add in the interest on the debt, government spending rises to 31.9 percent of GDP meaning that a tax hike of 14 percent of GDP will not enable the government to fund any programs beyond Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and interest payments on the debt as shown here:

      As I noted before, all of these projections assume that interest on government debt remains at its current level of 2.2 percent, well below the average rate of 5.7 percent over the past 20 years. If interest rates were to return to normal historical levels, an additional $557 billion would be added to interest costs in the year 2015 alone. Working against the current low interest rate environment could be a perception among debt holders that United States Treasuries are an increasingly risky investment requiring a greater return (i.e. higher interest paid on the Treasuries to offset the perception of risk). This situation becomes extremely dangerous because there can be no certainty whether interest rates will rise sharply as they did in the period from 1979 to 1981 or slowly as in the recent past. The Congressional Budget Office warns that a spike in interest rates similar to 1979 would create huge losses in the world’s bond markets and could lead to the failure of financial institutions similar to what we experienced at the outset of the Great Recession in 2008.

      http://viableopposition.blogspot.com/2011/04/hidden-american-100-trillion-debt.html

    2. js

      actually…they could probably kill taxes on 75% of americans…eliminate the huge tax code…and still make out without losing 1 red cent…

      originally…the income tax was intended to only tax the very wealthy…greed is why they take out taxes from poor folks paychecks…stupidity is what they do when they send it all back to the same poor folks…every year…with a few hundred to a few thousand dollars extra

      1. neocon1

        the graduated tax code (marx) was the second biggest fraud perpetrated upon the American people.

        barry soetoro the biggest.

    3. bardolf

      clueless

      No, expanding the tax base means moving people from the lower tax brackets to the upper tax brackets. As JS mentioned, the IRS could tax 100% of working people and then send back payments of various kinds to the bottom 50%. This would nullify Neoconeheads claim and ‘expand’ the base in your schemata but wouldn’t change the underlying problems.

      The underlying problem is …… NAFTA type agreements which ship manufacturing jobs to countries at slave labor rates. The underlying problem is …… believing that the USA can be a 80% SERVICE INDUSTRY country where few make anything tangible. Expanding the tax base means getting Americans to make high quality stuff. It means adventuring into the oceans, finding new sources of energy and physical work.

      A fair tax implies shouldn’t separate out ‘good things’ like home purchases for 1% and ‘sinful things’ like TV purchases for 8%. I’m also against particular taxes on alcohol and cigarettes for the same reason. For me buying a stock in a company is the same as buying a house or TV. I don’t buy into the pseudo-babble about the stock market being a critical component in innovation.

      The added advantage of a fair tax on ALL purchases is that it would return the stock market to the idea of an investment in the future of large companies as taught in Econ 101. The current version is a Vegas casino where complex derivatives can blow up the market without a clawback on past profits of the bankers.

    4. casper

      cluster,
      “Expanding the tax base would mean lowering the percentage of those not paying income taxes from 50% to hopefully somewhere around 20%, along with getting more people working,”

      So let’s look at that 50% (actually 47%) that don’t pay income tax. About 10% of that number don’t pay income tax because they are retired and living on SS.. Another 10 to 15% are unemployed (it’s kind of hard to pay income taxes when there is no income). That takes the number down to less than 25%. If you want to see them pay income tax the solution is easy. Pay them more. Raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour.

      “which would also mean curtailing back the 99 weeks of unemployment. Are you sure you are for that?”

      Since there are no jobs, how would cutting back on unemployment cause people to get jobs?

      BTW, Republican policies are a big part of why many don’t pay income tax.

      http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/28/who-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes-legally/

      1. Cluster

        Since there are no jobs, how would cutting back on unemployment cause people to get jobs? – Casper

        Please take a minute and think that one through.

        If we raise the minimum wage to $15/hr, what do you think the consequence would be? In real life, not some mocked up liberal theory.

    5. Amazona

      The best way to expand the tax base is to expand the economy.

      More new businesses, more new employees, more expansion of existing businesses, more new employees, more people in the workforce leading to more competition for jobs resulting in higher wages or salaries to remain competitive, etc.

      It’s economics, not government fiddling and diddling.

      dolf is one of those stuck on the image of a static pie and trying to find a “fair” way to redistribute the pieces. Conservatives want a government which does not, due to its ideology or ineptness, restrict the growth of the pie.

      You would think a self-proclaimed “mathematician” would understand that a smaller piece of a bigger and ever-expanding economy is going to result in more revenue than a bigger piece of a static and restrained economy.

    1. Green Mountain Boy

      Now an ounce of gold can buy 332 packs of smokes on average. Smoke em if ya got em.

    2. bardolf

      Maybe the markets new the deal was a foregone conclusion and the drop in the DJIA is based on a fear of recession which won’t be avoided with politicians who seem more interested in gamesmanship than expanding the tax base.

      1. neocon1

        GMB

        we are getting very close……

        As Thomas Jefferson said, “When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.”

        If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense… Alexander Hamilton

        a wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which
        shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement,
        and shall not take from labor the bread it has earned.” Thomas Jefferson from his Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

      2. bardolf

        Muslims in the military putting down protests by Muslims who didn’t like a dictator and want to see him brought to justice.

        Nothing to be afraid about. Think of it as Kent State, but with fewer Keffiyehs being worn in Egypt.

      3. neocon1

        baldork

        kent state = bad shooting by the NG
        we Marines would have got at least 100 of the looting rioting, building burning dirtbags.

      4. Green Mountain Boy

        Neo, you are right. It is getting closer. I keep wondering what will spark the fire. Will it be one big event or a series of small ones? Who knows.

        Bardolf, I do not see the parallel to Kent State at all. Lefties and muslims killing each, makes the cold heart smile. Besides that what the muzzies have in store for lefties after they have dealt with the rest of us kufirs.

        Like I said. Come to dark side. Do not wait until it is too late. God, Family, and friends. The only safety net anyone will ever need.

      5. Green Mountain Boy

        Neo, not to even mention that those Guardsmen were barely trained at that. They had absolutely no training in riot control and barely any military training. They never should of been there at all. Thats thier commanders fault for putting them there.
        Again you are right. Had combat veterens been there the death toll would have been much higher.
        Would have been RAF after RAF until all ammo was gone. Then would have been FBC. Would have been a bloody mess afterwards.

      6. neocon1

        GMB

        well a few beers here and there with the rest… :)

        the plan is already in the works, these so called “Flash Mobs” are practice runs to probe perimeter.
        When it does come there will be tens of thousands of these simultaneously carried out in every city across the US with busloads of union goons backing them up.
        We have already see the colored T shirts they wear when disrupting this is organized and planned.

      7. Bodie

        “the plan is already in the works, these so called “Flash Mobs” are practice runs to probe perimeter.
        When it does come there will be tens of thousands of these simultaneously carried out in every city across the US with busloads of union goons backing them up.”

        Seek professional help and perhaps one of those rooms with soft walls.

      8. bardolf

        GMB

        I meant a militant put down of the locals is just a militant put down of the locals. The most indelible profile of courage in the last 25 years is still the Chinese student in front of the tank.

        Not worried about a revolution but I’m prudent. I only walk in light hehehe.

    1. neocon1

      GMB

      One atomic researcher after the other has died in a series of recent murders in Iran
      badda bing behind the ear……AMF
      straight to allababba and 72 virginians.

      1. Green Mountain Boy

        I know what you meant. Just teasin ya. Any time one of us army brats gets a chance to rib a marine…got to take it ! :)

      2. neocon1

        GMB
        I know what you ment when you say you knew what I ment :)
        cant blame ya on the Marine thing…LOL
        I kid Mark about being a squid…LOL
        all in fun by us real deals.

  6. dennis

    “all in fun by us real deals.”

    ‘Scuse me, coffee up my nose after that…

    Neocon kinda brings to mind ol’ young King Tut
    He did it now, tried to make it real – compared to what?!??

    1. Green Mountain Boy

      Simply put dennis it is something you do not have the capability to understand, nor will you ever.

      Hope that coffee tasted good.

      1. Green Mountain Boy

        No dennis, you do not understand and again nor will you ever. It does not matter how many “friends” you lost anywhere. If you understand please tell myself and neo what the hell we are talking about.
        You cant. And again nor will you ever.

    2. Amazona

      dennis—CONGRATS!

      You finally posted something worthwhile.

      Stick to the music links, and leave the thinking to us.

      Love the link—it reminded me of the years my husband and I attended jazz parties in Colorado and Arizona. Jazz aficianados would gather the top musicians from all over the world who would play for expenses just to be able to jam with the best of the best. There would be dozens of jazz legends in one place for three days of nearly nonstop music, and tickets would be sold to cover the cost of their transportation and lodging. It was magical. We saw the best, like the dueling pianos of stride pianists Ralph Sutton and Jay (Hootie) McShann, accompanied by a guitar and a bass, playing off each other for an hour.

      We got to know some of the musicians, so when we went to jazz clubs, even in London, we would often hang out with them between sets. It was a wonderful time of my life, and before I met my husband I dated a jazz guitarist for a while, so even then spent a lot of time visiting with musicians in after-hours (illegal) jazz clubs as well as at formal venues. This clip brought back a lot of memories.

      But it has absolutely NOTHING to do with your strange, distorted, pseudo-politics. Nothing. It is art, and what’s more in this case it is art from more than 40 years ago.

      It is a tired old Lefty trick to take something unrelated, like an out-of-context comment or, as in this case, the title of a musical number, and try to link it to a political agenda. Sorry—it doesn’t work.

      If you want to talk about politics, try talking about politics. Not about people, not about events, but about YOUR idea of the best way to govern the nation. Not about gotchas, not about bogus either/ors, but about YOUR ideal system of governance.

      Is it small federal government/local control, or big central government power and control and limited local input? Is it personal responsibility or government responsibility? Is it the imposition of a distorted and misstated Christian philosophy upon government or is it the belief that the role of government is that of protection of its citizens and that their morality is a matter of personal ethics and responsibility? It is equality of opportunity or equality of outcome? Is it respect for private property or the idea that all property belongs to the State?

      Or does it really boil down to nothing more significant than a 42-year-old song title?

    3. Amazona

      But hey, dennis, let’s do it your way.

      Compared to what?

      Compare the Conservative political philosophy of Constitutional government with the Leftist philosophy of government.

      Compare the visions of the Founding Fathers to those of Marx.

      Compare the outcomes of our American Constitutional government to those of the Leftist ideology.

      Ready, set, go……

  7. dennis

    No GMB – I understand well enough. I lost friends in Vietnam, and I remember the day Kent State happened too. Two of the four students killed that day had nothing to do with the protests. One of them was in the ROTC.

    And in this historical moment, after Middle Eastern governments have used live fire on protesters, Neocon’s take on Kent State seems to be pretty much in line with the anti-democracy forces over there now. This blowhard who continually decries the death of the unborn and calls other people murderers says, “we Marines would have got at least 100 of the looting rioting, building burning dirtbags.”

    One could say any number of things about that kind of hypocrisy but this song just seemed to fit. Neo wants to keep it real – compared to what? Bahrain? Saudi Arabia? Egypt? Syria?

    1. Green Mountain Boy

      See my last post above dennis. Go put on a uniform yourself. Maybe just maybe then you might have a clue. It does not matter how many friends or family you have lost. You were never there. There is no way you can understand “There” if you have never been “there”
      Been there and done that. So has Neo, So has Mark, So has Spook. But not you.
      Hope the coffee tasted good.

    2. Amazona

      “This blowhard who continually decries the death of the unborn and calls other people murderers says, “we Marines would have got at least 100 of the looting rioting, building burning dirtbags.”

      Really, dennis? Really?

      You sure you want to compare the butchery of totally helpless and innocent babies with a suggested reaction to “looting, rioting, building burning dirtbags”?

      Really?

      Interesting.

      Quite an insight into your own moral compass……

    3. Amazona

      “Neocon’s take on Kent State seems to be pretty much in line with the anti-democracy forces over there now”

      Are you saying that the defense of United States military personnel against attack was really an “anti-democratic” action?

      Really?

      So the mob which was destroying private property and attacking United States personnel was really motivated by a defense of “democracy” and a defense against their attacks was “anti-democratic”?

      Really? You ought to explain that to us. It should be interesting.

    4. Amazona

      We haven’t heard much about Kent State in the past few decades, but recently Ann Coulter wrote about the incident. Her is what she had to say:

      “On May 4, National Guard officers were trying to disperse thousands of violent protesters in the middle of the campus. According to the recent reporting of James Rosen, the guardsman were fired upon first, leading twenty-nine guardsman to shoot back at the protesters, killing four students in thirteen seconds.”

      Do not rebuke me with Leftist cant, but merely address what Coulter lays out as fact. Address it with evidence, if you will be so kind.

      1….Were there thousands of violent protesters on campus?
      2….What were they ‘protesting’ and why was violence an appropriate means of ‘protest’?
      3….Did they or did they not throw things at the National Guardsmen, including rocks?
      4….Are there reports of someone firing upon the National Guardsmen?
      5….Is it a reasonable response for law enforcement officials (and remember, this was the role of the National Guard in this event) to respond with possibly lethal force when attacked?

      Thank you.

  8. dennis

    Ama, of course I don’t justify the mob violence that occurred at Kent State. My comparison was to the use of live fire against unarmed demonstrators, I made no equivalency between the demonstrators’ behavior. But rock-throwers aside these were unarmed students, the Guard was armed with M1 rifles and many present were not involved in the demonstration. Even Nixon’s Presidential Commission on Campus Unrest concluded the shootings were unjustified:

    Even if the guardsmen faced danger, it was not a danger that called for lethal force. The 61 shots by 28 guardsmen certainly cannot be justified. Apparently, no order to fire was given, and there was inadequate fire control discipline on Blanket Hill. The Kent State tragedy must mark the last time that, as a matter of course, loaded rifles are issued to guardsmen confronting student demonstrators.

    Three days afterward on the David Frost show vice president Agnew called the shootings “murder” – not premeditated, but murder nonetheless. Even I didn’t go that far.

    Lethal violence is rarely a proper solution to civil unrest, and in America of all places it’s very hard to justify. Of course not here on B4V, where Neocon sounds like he would have relished the opportunity to take out a few students and others seem quick to rationalize if not wholly excuse the Guard’s actions that day.

    As for the report of someone firing first, here’s wikipedia: “part-time student, Terry Norman, was already noted by student protesters as an informant for both campus police and the Akron FBI branch. Norman was present during the May 4 protests, taking photographs to identify student leaders, carrying a sidearm and wearing a gas mask… On August 13, 1973, Indiana Senator Birch Bayh sent a memo to then-governor of Ohio John J. Gilligan suggesting that Norman may have fired the first shot.” Of course probably nobody but Terry Norman will ever know for sure if that’s true.

    GMB, putting on a uniform proves that you can subordinate your own will to that of other human beings. There may be a time and place for such a lockstep mentality, in times of necessary national defense it can even produce heroism – however that certainly wasn’t the case on May 4, 1970 at Kent State University.

    On another note Ama, thanks for the appreciation, at least of the music link. A little-known fact – Gene McDaniels, the same man who wrote “Compared to What,” also wrote a song from 1961 some here may remember called “A Hundred Pounds of Clay.” Like you, I prefer the jazz.

    Gene McDaniels passed away this past Friday, and as a remembrance you really should give this recording of his from last year a listen – it is quite lovely http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdh4fpekmok

    1. Bodie

      Eugene McDaniels’ “Headless Heroes of the Apocalypse” is must-hear album. Just fantastic.

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