Monday Morning Open Thread

Lots going on this week:

The Wisconsin recall election is tomorrow.  How will the outcome affect the general election in November?

George Soros says “90 days to save Euro”.

Washed up and disgraced golfer, Tiger Woods, wins his second tournament of the year and moves up to 3rd in the FedEx Cup point standings.

Romney continues to gain in the polls, especially among women.

Global economy at risk as US, Europe and Asia slow.

Do Economists EVER get predictions right?

Your tax dollars hard at work protecting the nation from terrorists.


Feel free to discuss these topics or anything else of interest.

UPDATE, by Mark Noonan:  Lost in Friday’s dismal employment report is this:

Last Friday’s unemployment news crashed the stock market and upended the presidential race. Lost in the excitement, however, was the news that African-American unemployment, already significantly above general levels, rose by much more.

Nationally, unemployment in May rose from 8.1 percent to 8.2. This is bad, especially considering how much time has passed since our economic troubles began, but it is less than catastrophic. As the Root reports, for African-Americans, however, the news was much, much worse. Unemployment among Blacks rose from 13.0 percent to 13.6 percent…

Seriously, black Americans, is Obama really doing a darned thing for you?  Is this the man you’ll really give 90% of your votes to on November 6th?

62 thoughts on “Monday Morning Open Thread

  1. J. R. Babcock June 4, 2012 / 10:50 am

    I used to be a big Tiger Woods fan. The guy has tremendous talent, and he appears to be putting his game back together, but no amount of practice and no number of wins will ever increase the character that he so obviously lacks. Sort of reminiscent of Denny McClain and Pete Rose.

    • Brooke June 4, 2012 / 3:24 pm

      Tiger Woods has some demons.

      • neocon1 June 4, 2012 / 11:29 am

        10 Reasons Obama Must Disclose His College Records

        3. Obama was stoned half the time in high school, according to biographer David Maraniss. He even had a personal drug dealer who scored potent weed for him and his Choom Gang of stoners. He was known as a loafer in school. Yet somehow he got a full academic ride to Occidental College.

        4. Obama’s drug habits worsened at Oxy, where he toked on a three-foot bong and also snorted coke regularly. Professors say he took few notes in class and turned assignments in late. Yet somehow he managed to transfer to the more competitive, Ivy League Columbia. Did he benefit from affirmative action?

      • GMB June 4, 2012 / 11:30 am

        Its only intimidation if conservatives do something like this.. Get with the program Neo. :P

    • neocon1 June 4, 2012 / 11:39 am

      well put

      Craig Dedo, a computer consultant and Walker supporter, said the race boiled down to one question: Who runs Wisconsin? “The
      Democrats and the unions, who are the takers?” he asked, “or the Republicans, the party of the private sector and the people who pay the bills?

      • neocon1 June 4, 2012 / 11:44 am

        War in the White House: Eric Holder and top Obama adviser David Axelrod ‘had to be separated’


    • Retired Spook June 4, 2012 / 2:15 pm

      Rush is discussing the piece about Mike Levitt as I type this.

  2. GMB June 4, 2012 / 2:45 pm

    Hey libbies, Bill Maher, a self proclaimed 99% gives a million bucks to barky’s super pac and buys a 20 million buck share of the NY Mets.

    Maybe you should #occupybillswallet?? LOL Bill Maher meet Princess Lieawatha. LOL Again.

    • Brooke June 4, 2012 / 3:23 pm

      Are you saying that Bill Maher doesn’t have the right to purchase a piece of the Mets?

      I don’t understand…

      • GMB June 4, 2012 / 3:38 pm

        What kind of 99% has a million dollars to give to a super pac and 20 million to buy a chunk of a baseball team? You don’t see any hypocracy at all Brooke?

      • neocon1 June 4, 2012 / 4:49 pm


        ask Rush about that.

      • Amazona June 5, 2012 / 3:27 pm

        “Are you saying that Bill Maher doesn’t have the right to purchase a piece of the Mets?”

        Who said that? I didn’t see anyone say that.

        ” I don’t understand…”

        …which is quite clear

    • neocon1 June 4, 2012 / 4:48 pm

      OPM dollar you mean

  3. Retired Spook June 4, 2012 / 5:02 pm

    Can you say lawsuit?

  4. Retired Spook June 4, 2012 / 5:09 pm

    From a weekly sales tip newsletter from one of my suppliers:

    Top 5 Lessons Learned From Facebook’s Faltering IPO:

    5. Traffic does not equal revenue – This one’s been around since the original internet bubble burst, but somehow never dies. Traffic without revenue is not an asset, its overhead. The number of leads or the size of your audience is irrelevant if you’re not converting them to sales, or monetizing views, and every visitor to your website is costing you in terms of bandwidth and support.

    4. You MUST align your business model with your audience – Ad based revenue works for Google because the ads are served when people are searching for something, which nails the window of opportunity. This model is failing for Facebook because users aren’t searching for something, they’re socializing, and in that context, ads are intrusive.

    3. Users care about their privacy – Given how freely people share on Facebook, this may seem counterintuitive, but lawsuit after lawsuit shows users care about how their data is used, and that blatant disregard for privacy concerns is affecting Facebook’s bottom line.

    2. Value > Hype – Facebook has reported that it only earns about $5 per user annually, or 4.5 Billion. So how was a valuation of 110 Billion reached for the IPO? Arbitrarily, and propped up by hype. No matter how much industry or marketing hype you wrap around a product, you can’t create value out of thin air.

    1. INTEGRITY MATTERS – …and Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg has a long history of underhanded dealings and straight out fraud. When it comes time to ask the public to trust you with their money or their business, all of your previous decisions in business will be scrutinized. In business, as in life, your reputation determines how people decide to interact with you.

    • neocon1 June 4, 2012 / 6:21 pm


      perception is reality……

    • J. R. Babcock June 4, 2012 / 5:22 pm

      Even more interesting: it says buy if you think he’ll be reelected and sell if you think he won’t. There are 2 offers to buy and 80 offers to sell. Smells like burnt, soggy toast to me.

      • neocon1 June 4, 2012 / 6:04 pm


        “Men alone cannot be by themselves in the children’s area,” Amin said he was told, adding that Voris said other bookstores had encountered problems with child molesters.


        she can

        Homeland Security Is Supporting a Gay Pride Celebration & Janet Napolitano Is Getting an Award

        “…a year of significant progress for DHS Pride and for the LGBT community.”


    • bardolf June 5, 2012 / 6:23 pm

      My chart reading skills show the last time that Obama was at 70% was in May of 2011. Last month he was at 60%. Romney’s betting odds of 40% have held consistent through the year. This is why the B4V crowd should have taken my underwater basket weaving course in the Spring.

      Currently teaching calculus at 200 mph (why would someone take a course in 4 weeks that they failed when they had 16 weeks????). I’ll be teaching measure theory in the Fall. That’s a course where they show you how to use a tape measure correctly. Not as easy as it looks

      “Seriously, black Americans, is Obama really doing a darned thing for you? Is this the man you’ll really give 90% of your votes to on November 6th?” – Spook

      First African American incarceration rates have dropped under Obama which is the first time in a generation that has happened. Second is the fact that Romney said nothing in the tumultuous period in Mormon history (1960’s and 1970’s) when the church was dealing with a ban on black Americans from the Mormon priesthood because blacks were said to have fought with Satan in the great war against God.

      Romney could come out for legalization of marijuana, a relatively benign plant, which would end prison terms for 1/6 of the prison population with little side effects.

      He and Obama won’t support legalization because they are, in the end, both nanny-state the government knows best, oh-really-that-happens-to-conflict-with-a-big-lobbying-operation? (alcohol and cigarette manufactures) – politicians.

      • J. R. Babcock June 5, 2012 / 6:37 pm

        First African American incarceration rates have dropped under Obama which is the first time in a generation that has happened.

        Bullsh*t! Black incarceration rates in state and federal prisons have dropped every year for the past 10 years.

      • Amazona June 5, 2012 / 8:00 pm

        Does the drop in black incarceration rates have anything to do with an AG who refuses to prosecute black on white crime?

        What is the source of your information on what Mitt Romney did or did not say, and to whom, regarding the Mormon Church’s stance on blacks in their priesthood forty or fifty years ago?

        And what possible relevance could it have to anything today? Particularly to his run for the presidency? Many people disagree with certain aspects of the dogma of their faiths, but shouldn’t be judged for failing to challenge the Pope or the bishop or whoever.

        Yes, we know that the marijuana thing is very big with you but you need to get used to the fact that many people simply do not agree with you. The tinfoil-hat brigade likes to find conspiracies behind the belief that marijuana use needs to be banned, but the simple fact is that there is a strong cultural bias against it.

        (Having lost my mother to alcoholism and knowing two people with medical marijuana licenses, I agree that marijuana is probably less harmful than alcohol. That’s not the point, and slamming Romney for his failure to go up against such a strong and widespread belief among Americans is pretty silly.)

        And claiming that a non-position on an issue not at stake in this election erases the differences in political philosophy between a constitutional conservative and a Marxist-leaning Leftist is utterly foolish.

        I’ve never understood how or why someone as obviously intelligent as you manage to get so deep into the weeds (no pot pun intended) once you start to opine. Your focus on the trivial and irrelevant is truly astounding, and its ability to spin you off into the strangest conclusions is, well, quite strange.

        This post appears to be based on your reaction to the belief that Mitt Romney has not taken a position with which you might agree, on issues that you don’t even really know if he ever considered, and which are totally irrelevant to the election or this discussion.

        Next you’ll be complaining that he has never come out for flame-retardant Halloween costumes, or against annoying background music in YouTube videos.

      • Amazona June 5, 2012 / 8:03 pm

        “So, that’s a reason for African Americans to vote for Obama.”

        Really? Why? What did Barry do to decrease the number of black people going to prison?

        Or should black people just vote for him because they are black and he is kind of black?

      • J. R. Babcock June 5, 2012 / 10:15 pm

        U.S. Sees First Decrease in “Prison Population” in Nearly 40 Years

        Sorta moved the goal posts there, Bardolf. “Black” incarceration rates declined under Obama, but they also declined every year Bush was in office as well. Does that mean they should have voted for Bush?

  5. Cluster June 4, 2012 / 11:02 pm

    Folks I am growing more convinced that liberal dishonesty, or quite possibly, sheer stupidity is the biggest obstacle conservatives need to overcome. Larry O’Donnell was just on MSNBC lecturing everyone that Obama is just simply trying to return the country to the tax structure that Clinton had in place in the 90’s when the economy was thriving. Now I am not sure if Larry remembers that Obama had that opportunity in December 2010 or if he is being dishonest, which one would be the natural inclination. However, I am beginning to think that Larry, and most liberals, are that stupid. I think they have the retention skills of children and are easily distracted. In December of 2010, Obama and the democratically controlled congress could have easily let the bush tax rate cuts expire and we would have returned to the Clinton tax structure, and according to most liberal pundits, that should have been the cure for our economic ills.

    Everyone who lives in Wisconsin, please go to the polls tomorrow and vote for walker. The hard working, tax paying folks of that state deserve to beat the special interest unions and take control of their state.

    • Retired Spook June 4, 2012 / 11:30 pm

      Our resident Lefties seem to have given up the fight. Hopefully that’s a national trend.

      • Cluster June 5, 2012 / 8:00 am

        They have indeed haven’t they? In fact a couple of lefties in my office have pretty much resigned themselves to a loss, and honestly aren’t that too pleased with Mr.Obama anyway, so I also hope that is a national trend.

  6. Jeremiah June 5, 2012 / 1:44 am

    How much is one’s life worth if destined to other than the desires of their heart?
    People need to stop letting the government dictate to them how much they are worth.
    And start learning to take up for themselves, and do for themselves, and their children.

  7. GMB June 5, 2012 / 3:49 am

    “Seriously, black Americans, is Obama really doing a darned thing for you? Is this the man you’ll really give 90% of your votes to on November 6th?”

    Yes Mark it sure is and you know it. My first reaction was to think you have gone just a bit mad by asking this quetion. How long have you been observing the political discourse in this country? We are about the same age so I’ll assume for about thirty years right?

    Liberalism and all it’s other names never has been anything other than sybolism over substance and it never will be. It does not matter how many are unemployed. It does not matter how many are poorer than dirt. It does not matter how many are on the government dole for life.

    His skin is half balck and that is all that matters.

    • neocon1 June 5, 2012 / 8:22 am

      sadly but true
      that is why the donks have had a 45 year lock on the plantation in spite of being the worst racist party other than the nazis.
      a tribal mentality and only 200 years of freedom are not enough evolution i guess.

      • neocon1 June 5, 2012 / 8:26 am

        really christie??? I mean REALLY???

        NJ Drivers Face $1K Fines For Pets Not Wearing Seat Belts…

        RED CHINA is beginning to look good welcome to the new AmeriKa the police state.

      • neocon1 June 5, 2012 / 8:30 am

        Police Stop, Handcuff Every Adult at Intersection in Search for Bank Robber…

        hiding behind shields, dressed like ninjas, pointing semi weapons at citizens…all in the name of “safety”

        riiiiight pee wee

  8. Retired Spook June 5, 2012 / 8:46 am

    Seriously, black Americans, is Obama really doing a darned thing for you? Is this the man you’ll really give 90% of your votes to on November 6th?


    This is a dynamic that has always puzzled me too. One would think that, sooner or later, broken promises of making your life better would begin to wear a little thin. I’ve come to the conclusion that there can really only be one explanation. Republicans are the party that would like to find blacks work, and the Democrats are the party that have found that paying blacks not to work yields waaaaaaay more votes. You do have to give the Donks some credit in that they’ve played the black population like a Stradivarius. They’ve stuck the majority in failing schools where they don’t get an education; they’ve sent as many of those uneducated blacks as possible to college with affirmative action polices, knowing that the vast majority would fail but be grateful for the opportunity; they’ve eliminated their income taxes as long as they’re willing to work menial jobs. They’ve simply imprisoned them on a different kind of plantation.

    • Cluster June 5, 2012 / 8:51 am

      I think conservatives always make the mistake that liberals actually think, and they don’t. Liberals emote. So it’s not the actual results that keep bringing liberals back to the voting booth, it’s the message and rhetoric. As long as Obama says the right things, the results don’t matter.

  9. Cluster June 5, 2012 / 8:48 am

    So I just saw the Sarah Jessica Parker ad for Obama, for sure man, and like it was so cool, but won’t it be refreshing this November when we can finally put an adult back in the white house?

    Obama is the dumbest SOB ever to occupy the white house and my summer vacation read will be The Amateur by Ed Klein – I hear it is good.

    • Amazona June 5, 2012 / 5:51 pm

      Wasn’t she an embarrassment? That giddy schoolgirl crush thing seemed to work for him last time, but let’s face it, Jessica’s schoolgirl years are far far behind her, and this breathless adoration thing is kind of creepy. She may swoon over breathing the same air as Barry, but I can’t see many being so smitten.

  10. Retired Spook June 5, 2012 / 12:43 pm

    The rats continue to desert the good ship Obama. This guy is normally an Obama apologist, and when an Obama foot soldier starts saying stuff like this, you know it’s not good for the Bamster:

    It is now time to pay the piper for the timidity and caution and misguided political calculations of three years of what can now safely be described as a failed economic policy.

    It will be difficult for Obama to criticize the Republican playbook, since he has been reading from the same pages. His only real departure is to have millionaires pay a tax rate a few percentage points higher, and that wouldn‘t fix everything anything.

    Obama can’t tell the nation we shouldn’t go back to failed Republican policies, because we never really gave them up. Now they have become failed Democratic policies.

    The fact that Romney will likely follow the same bad policies and that they could once again become failed Republican policies doesn’t really matter for this election in 2012, though it might help Hillary Clinton or whoever the Democratic nominee will be in 2016.

    Obama’s failure early in his term to muster support for a stimulus that was big enough and effective enough to get that “escape velocity” needed for a robust recovery was unfortunate.

    His failure to hold financial kingpins accountable for the crisis that spawned the Great Recession was inexcusable. And this failure was compounded by not mounting any significant financial reform but instead passing a Frankenstein bill that — besides not addressing many of the real problems — was unwieldy, unnecessarily complex, and unworkable.

    It was perhaps optimistic to expect anything else from a president who doesn’t understand economics and apparently let his political advisers, who also don’t seem to get it, have the last word on economic policy.

    It didn’t help that his economic team was led by proven failures like his chief economic adviser, Larry Summers, the Clinton administration Treasury secretary who signed off on deregulation, and his Treasury secretary, Timothy Geithner, who as third-place choice to head the New York Federal Reserve failed to see or head off the brewing financial crisis.

    None of this can be changed, so it’s really just so much water under the bridge. The problem is that these mistakes have consequences, and those can’t be changed either.

    So now in 2012 we have JP Morgan Chase, which invented the credit default swap and had the biggest portfolio of these nefarious financial instruments going into the crisis, losing billions more in huge casino bets that go wrong because of what appears to be systemically lax controls.

    And even after all this, Obama, who has been buffaloed by JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon from the beginning, thought last month that it was all right to call Dimon “one of the smartest bankers we’ve got.”

    Instead of taking the “shellacking” of the 2010 mid-term elections as a chance to change course and adopt bolder initiatives, Obama kept the unimaginative Geithner as his top economic official, and exchanged Clinton retread Summers for Clinton retread Gene Sperling, who is not even an economist, as his chief economic adviser.

    More fatefully, earlier in 2010, he bought into the Republican premise that the federal deficit is the main economic issue and appointed a presidential commission to fix this non-problem.

    Then he ignored its recommendations, not because he realized he had made a horrendous mistake in appointing the commission, but because his support would have been the kiss of death for its proposals.

    With friends like this, who needs enemies?

  11. J. R. Babcock June 5, 2012 / 12:02 pm

    And that’s not even getting into your party’s rather shameful track record of race baiting and bigotry,

    I think you’ve got that backwards, sport. Projection appears to be what you do best.

  12. J. R. Babcock June 5, 2012 / 12:06 pm

    You imply that blacks are lazy (“just pay them not to work!”) and too stupid to understand their situation

    Yeah, I don’t know how anyone could get that impression.

  13. Cluster June 5, 2012 / 1:08 pm

    You imply that blacks are lazy (“just pay them not to work!”) and too stupid to understand their situation, then you wonder why they don’t vote for your party. Can you really not connect the dots? – Dave

    Dave, thank you so much for posting. You are exactly the type of unexamined liberal I hope to knock some common sense in to.

    Maybe you can tell me what the democrats have done for blacks over the last 40 years? Today, over 70% of black children are born into a single parent household. Over 50% of black males don’t have jobs, and the percentage of blacks receiving welfare is at an all time high, as is the mortality rate amongst urban blacks. So maybe I am missing something here but it doesn’t appear that the democrats policies have been too successful Care to address this issue?

  14. neocon1 June 5, 2012 / 1:48 pm

    dave baloneyman

    You imply that blacks are lazy (“just pay them not to work!”) and too stupid to understand their situation, then you wonder why they don’t vote for your party. Can you really not connect the dots?

    And that’s not even getting into your party’s rather shameful track record of race baiting and bigotry,
    Let me commend you on your crystal ball that shows you what other people are thinking while they do not really say it,
    Of course a large amount of imagination and BS must be thrown in, so one can interpolate and divine some one’s thoughts, like a swami or tea leaf reader.

    second; I think JR Babcock proved your blathering BS for what it is so no further need to comment on your imaginary projection.

    What I was saying is that Africans in the 1800’s and 1900’s were tribal (some) nomadic people who had kings and appointed leaders. They lived in mud huts with no amenities and were not individualistic peoples due to the harsh conditions of life.
    From these very people the slaves were captured and sold. Again no individuality they served their masters, were clothed and fed and worked accordingly.

    They were subsequently freed yet uneducated by the most part, and those in the DEMOCRAT led south were segregated from the white populations.
    They migrated to northern citys, congregated in large numbers in neighborhoods and today make up much of the country’s inner

    That background has produced a large block of mostly unsophisticated, poorly educated, and easily led or mis led voters.

    The GOP does not RECRUIT members with shiny objects, OPM, horse blankets or beads. People gravitate to that which they believe will benefit how they live the best.

    In the GOP it is LESS govt, smaller federal govt, fewer taxes,and more local and state control, not some bureaucrats in washington wiping our noses and mailing us $$$$ that for which we did not work for or produce.

    you see Im a realist, UN PC and I call em as I see it.

  15. Amazona June 5, 2012 / 3:32 pm

    Gee, Dave, it appears that no one is as good at “connecting the dots” as you are, even if you have to invent fantasy dots.

    BTW, it is Liberals who consider blacks too stupid to succeed without the paternalistic hand of the plantation master handing them jobs and college positions and loans and so on that the Left clearly feels they could NEVER qualify for on their own.

    As for “our party’s” alleged …shameful track record of race baiting and bigotry…that is just too funny. Yes, in a certain kind of Orwellian universe, in which everything has to be considered as its exact opposite, it is the Right which has used race-baiting to build support, and which has advocated the bigotry of things like Affirmative Action.

  16. Amazona June 5, 2012 / 4:08 pm

    When I was in high school we studied environmental and cultural effects on populations and to sum up a whole semester it boiled down to people from colder climates being more industrious because they had to be, to survive. They had to figure out how to stay warm, how to travel in terrible conditions, how to master agriculture and store food for winter, how to make protective clothing and housing, and in general were forced by their environments to develop very different skill sets and productivity than their cousins who didn’t have the same survival needs.

    This is in no way a reflection on innate intelligence or ambition.

    I grew up in a rural area where it was assumed that I would drive. At probably the age of 2 or 3 I insisted on sitting on my father’s lap and pretending to steer the car the last 100 yards or so down our driveway, I was learning how to drive an old deuce-and-a-half stakebed at the age of 12, and this was just a natural and assumed part of my culture and upbringing. But I met a man from Peru, where only the rich had cars, who spent his entire life without the slightest inkling that he would ever drive. He was very bright, had a college degree and a brilliant mind, but trying to teach him how to drive meant starting at such a basic level—“this is a key”—–that it made me think of how we are shaped by our early exposures and expectations. His grasp of how anything even remotely mechanical was so slight, and so quirky, it was hard sometimes to relate to, but he had simply not grown up with the slightest concept of ever needing or wanting to know how things like cars work.

    So acknowledging the cultural histories and influences of people and relating this to how they view what we think of as ambition or productivity or self-reliance is not an indictment of intelligence or character.

    Bigots and race-baiters like Dave, who do so love to project their own character defects on others, will try to spin this into racial prejudice, but it is not.

  17. neocon1 June 5, 2012 / 4:22 pm

    dave baloneyman

    the DONKS sure loooove blacks……..

    ( – In New York City in 2007, 87,527 abortions were performed, with 43,568–or 49.8 percent–of the aborted
    babies being black, according to the CDC.

    A report released in December by the New York Department of Health indicated that that black babies represented an even higher percentage among those aborted in New York City in 2009. That report said about 41 percent of pregnancies in the city ended in abortion in 2009 and 59.8 percent of those abortions were of black babies.


    The incarceration rate in state or federal prison or jail for men was 1,384 per 100,000 residents, for women 134 per 100,000 residents. The rate for white men was 736 per 100,000, for black men 4,789 per 100,000,

  18. Amazona June 5, 2012 / 6:01 pm

    Seriously? 41% of all pregnancies in New York end up with the babies being killed?

    And THIS is the group which looks down on Flyover Country and preens in its imagined superiority? 41% of sexually active females in NYC aren’t smart enough, or sane enough, to use birth control? 41% of sexually active females in NYC are so pathologically selfish and indifferent to the inherent value of human life that they discard it with the trash?

    This is absolutely disgusting, and quite an indictment of the intelligence, morality and basic human dignity of nearly half of the sexually active females in NYC. I can’t call them “women” because I was brought up to think of women as strong and certainly as protectors of their young.

    The pro-death crowd gets quite upset when someone uses moral terms to describe the brutality and inhumanity of females killing their young, but I do not have any problem at all in stating that I find them despicable. As well as those who support them and their heinous actions, who defend them and excuse them.

  19. Amazona June 6, 2012 / 8:47 am

    Dave, that was quite a rambling rant, and what was so interesting about it is that every word of it is entirely dependent on your own laserlike focus on your own bigotry and ignorance.

    YOU claim that blacks are portrayed here as lazy and shiftless, yet this has not happened. YOU claim that it is this portrayal that keeps blacks from voting for Republicans, yet Republicans not only do not think this, do not say this, and fight for racial equality, YOU are the one who lumps all people of black skin together into one homogenous demographic lump, denying their individuality and defined by their skin color, quite a racist attitude.

    YOU are the one who seems to think that the only thing that can be “offered” to this racial demographic is what can be given to them, financially or verbally, as if they are nothing more than beggars eager for handouts, obviously unaware that in a nation which is colorblind and full of economic opportunity everyone will benefit—-the goal, by the way, of conservatives and the Republicans we want to put in office.

    YOU are the one denying, by implication, the very real fact that it is only black “leaders” openly calling for the death of some white people because they are white, openly calling for racial violence, openly inciting hatred and attacks on white people, and in general acting precisely as you claim white conservatives act—yet without examples of white conservatives (and you do remember, don’t you, that “conservative is a political philosophy and not a cultural or racial or social or religious or any other kind of identifier) calling for violence and hatred against black people.

    And YOU are the one inventing and clinging to your delusions of “…conservatism’s ugly (and ongoing) history of sowing racial division.”

    Of course, to do this you have to contort history, and yourself, into bizarre definitions. You have to redefine “conservative” to completely ignore its actual meaning as the political philosophy that the United States Constitution is the best way to govern the United States, and attach all sorts of invented characteristics to the word to give it the hateful and nasty identity you need it to have to be able to mount your hysterical attacks. You have to rewrite history and declare that the Democrats who were so openly racist in the past were really Republicans in disguise, and that the Republicans who fought for racial equality (starting with the emancipation of the slaves) were really Democrats masquerading as Republicans. You need to ignore the race-baiting Liberals used so callously to try to get Obama elected and now to retain his office. You have to overlook the blatant efforts of this administration to divide the nation along racial lines and then turn each racial division against white conservatives.

    You have to inhabit a fantasy world of your own making, a world which is clearly quite ugly and hateful, a world you have created and seem to love, a world from which you emerge every now and then to spread the toxins you have been cooking up in that feverswamp little mind of yours. But it’s Daveland, on Planet Dave, and not part of the real world.

    And you are welcome to it.

    Your rant has nothing to do with objective fact, but is actually just a laundry list of your own irrational loathings, political ignorance, seething rage, lack of interest in truth or fact, bizarre and hate-based delusions, racism you deny as you exhibit it in nearly every sentence, and an overall pathology that makes me quite grateful for the distance allowed by internet discussions.

  20. Retired Spook June 6, 2012 / 12:37 pm

    Retired Spook claimed that Democrats are “buying” black votes by paying blacks not to work and that blacks either don’t understand that this is happening or find it too appealing to give up.

    Dave, do you have some evidence that that’s not true? Personally, and this is just my opinion, but I suspect most Conservatives couldn’t care less about what percentage of blacks vote Democrat. The vast majority of blacks who vote Democrat get exactly what they deserve, and if noting that makes me a racist, then I wear that distinction as a badge of honor.

  21. Amazona June 6, 2012 / 1:21 pm

    Sorry, Dave, but commenting on the Dem strategy of paying ANYONE not to work, in return for votes, is an indictment of the party, not those targeted.

    No, Dave, you tacked your own interpretation onto what was said and then sounded off, at length, based on your own spin and not what was said. Too bad you’re not man enough to admit it.

    Commenting on something that has happened, such as the number of any demographic doing anything, is not racist. Lumping a whole race together and assigning it characteristics IS. There is a huge difference between saying, for example, a lot of Latinos did this and saying all Latinos would do this because they are Latinos.

    This is what makes you Libs so bone-deep racist—you simply do not see individuals who happen to share one or more superficial characteristics, you see a large group you can lump together as having the same qualities just because they share a skin color, and which you project will all act the same way, also because of that skin color and whatever characteristics you assign to that skin color.

    Sneer all you want, call all the names you want, strut your bigotry and racism all you want, project that bigotry and racism onto others all you want—-none of it matters. You have done an excellent job of explaining who and what you are, and none of your bleating now will change that.

    You’ve made it clear that your definition of political commentary is to regurgitate a lot of vitriol and lies, and to insult those who disagree with your strangely hate-based assumptions and assertions. And I am sure than in your little bubble of Identity Politics this will pass muster. But not here.

  22. Retired Spook June 7, 2012 / 10:58 am

    yet this whole discussion was kicked off by Mark Noonan complaining that Democrats get 90 percent of the black vote. Would you like to take a stab at reconciling those two things?

    Sure, no problem. Go back and read Mark’s update again. He’s not “complaining” about the fact that 90% of blacks vote Democrat. He’s marveling at the fact that they don’t appear to be getting any return on their vote. BIG DIFFERENCE, but not one that I would expect you to get. Let’s face it, Dave; you’re reading comprehension is poor and you’re just not very bright.

  23. Retired Spook June 7, 2012 / 12:32 pm

    That’s great, Spook, but it doesn’t change the fact that Mark certainly appears to care what percentage of blacks vote Democrat (contrary to your post).

    Well, I can’t speak for Mark, of course, but I’d be shocked if he cares what percentage of blacks vote Democrat. I think you’re just too intellectually dishonest or too f’ing stupid to see it. How about it, Mark; which one of us is correct?

    Unless your argument is that he (like you) is just writing off the black vote, in which case we’re back to that, “Ah, screw ‘em, I don’t care what they do…but why won’t they vote for us?” dynamic that’s so obvious, yet has you so confused.

    I’m not confused about anything. I suppose there are Conservatives who don’t understand why blacks don’t vote Republican; I’m not one of them. I HAVE largely written them off. Eventually the pendulum will swing back. When I was growing up in the late 40’s and 50’s, most blacks were Republicans, were not disproportionately represented in the criminal justice system, didn’t live in ghettos, and didn’t have an inordinately high out-of-wedlock birth rate, all things which have developed since hitching their wagon to the Democrat Party. The dynamic I find the most interesting is that, in spite of getting crumbs from Democrats’ table for half a century, radicals in the black community are still threatening a race war. I’m anxious to see who they wage that war against.

  24. Cluster June 7, 2012 / 1:38 pm


    I could not care less how many blacks vote republican, nor how many pink people vote for democrats. In my view, we are all children of God, with the same inherent rights and God given talents. You evidently think that skin color does create a distinction, as do most democrats, hence the pandering. The problem is that that pandering over the years has created a co dependency between blacks and democrats – the democrats needing their vote, and the blacks needing their hand outs after due to lowered expectations on behalf of those democrats. It’s not a difficult cycle to figure out.

  25. Retired Spook June 7, 2012 / 11:12 pm


    I’m not sure what leads you to believe that I have a fixation on “race war”, or of what it’s “telling”. There is an element of the black community that is threatening a race war, but I’m not fixated on it. Because of where I live, I’m relatively immune from a race war if one should occur. As I said, I’m kind of curious to see who it’s waged against. My guess would be the plantation masters, but I could be wrong.

  26. Amazona June 7, 2012 / 11:53 pm

    Dave, no rational person will ever be able to overcome your persistent dedication to putting the most malignant spin possible on every single thing any conservative person ever says, or to inventing what is not said so you can hate that, too.

    You can and evidently will insist that conservatives think black people are indolent and stupid. You need to believe this because the truth would challenge your entire mindset, which is so locked into irrational bigotry that there is no room in it at all for anything that does not support it.

    So you just keep on spewing your mental excrement and you just keep on claiming that people believe things they do not believe and you just keep on defining whole groups of people by their skin color or their gender and you just keep on keeping on, because that is all you can do. You need to hate, you love to hate, hate charges your batteries and lights your fire, and so you will find things to hate even if you have to invent them, as we have seen here.

    All I can say is, I am a conservative, I know what that means, I know many people who are conservative, I read many things written by conservatives, and I have never, ever, encountered any of the pathologies you constantly attribute to conservatives in anyone but Liberals.

    While conservatism is a political system, people who believe in it also tend to believe in things like judging people by their character instead of by the color of their skin, or by their gender. We tend to think killing innocent children because they are not convenient is brutal and an atrocity and thoroughly despicable. We tend to think that personal responsibility is key to character. There are a lot of things that run parallel to the political philosophy that the Constitution is the best way to govern the United States. The racial bigotry that you describe does not.

    I know this, we know this, millions and millions of people know this, but people like you have such a need to hate, such a need to attack, that you will never believe anything that does not contribute to this pathology.

    You can keep issuing your silly pseudo-challenges as long as you want, but as you have amply illustrated that your goal is not to engage in reasonable dialogue there is no reason to be drawn into your questions.

  27. Dave Bowman June 8, 2012 / 9:38 pm

    “I’m not sure what leads you to believe that I have a fixation on “race war”, ”

    Mostly the fact that you bring it up a lot and are utterly convinced that we’re going to have one.

    “or of what it’s “telling””

    Of an attitude and an outlook.

    Amazona: Spook said what he said. You keep insisting that he didn’t while he’s busy trying to defend his statements. He’s at least being honest about this; why can’t you do the same?

  28. Retired Spook June 8, 2012 / 11:49 pm

    Mostly the fact that you bring it up a lot and are utterly convinced that we’re going to have one.

    I think you have me confused with someone else — Neocon, perhaps.

  29. Amazona June 9, 2012 / 9:22 am

    Dave, it has become quite clear that your posting here is not an effort to engage in political discourse, or even a dialogue of any kind, but is merely a strange and sad little person jumping up and down shrilling “LOOK AT ME!!! LOOK AT ME !!

    Your comments are irrelevant. You are irrelevant.

    If you want to post, come back with an actual thought or idea. Your obsession with people, and with picking apart every syllable they say, may qualify as political commentary in YOUR mind, but in the real world, not so much.

    So come back here with a philosophy of how best to govern the country. Back it up. Defend it. Post something POLITICAL.

    But your inability to see beyond the most superficial aspect of any personal comment on any topic has, so far, branded you as nothing but a quarrelsome political and intellectual lightweight.

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